Would you ever run an MS-DOS program in 64-bit Windows?

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HARDWARE By Ben Myers Let’s see if we can find good reasons to continue to use a 30-year-old MS-DOS program. Recently, a client asked me whether it wa
[See the full post at: Would you ever run an MS-DOS program in 64-bit Windows?]

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ibe98765, fisher75, dg1261, windbg, geekdom

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Sure…but I would run it in it’s own virtual environment using Virtual Box or some other VM manager. You can easily take backup snapshots of the VM, as well as mapping drives if you need to dump data to your regular programs.

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Yes, a VM could also have done the job running 16-bit DOS.  Potential issues with VMs:

The time to set up a VM would have been longer than the time to install and set up vDOS.

Unless done to absolute perfection, a VM can be difficult for a relatively naïve Windows user.

I never investigated moving data back and forth between native Windows and what runs under a VM.

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I actually have a use case where have some old DOS actuarial programs written in Fortran back in the day that I still successfully run to this day on Windows 10/11 64 bit.  My solution was I created a 32bit Windows XP session in Oracle VirtualBox which does the trick.  Only thing I use it for, so I ignore the perpetual nags from MS about out of date virus support etc.  Using that at work so through Net Use capture the LPT1 and map to one of the local printers.

One of these days will get around to creating Excel spreadsheets to handle these programs, but spare time is lacking.

BTW, Ben, remember meeting you and your wife; my father is Richard Wyatt who you worked with back in the old Honeywell days.

 

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Yes.  Your Dad, Dick Wyatt, was the best and most wonderful person for whom I worked across 19 years at Honeywell Information Systems (R.I.P. the computers), and years elsewhere.  Been doing things on my own for over 25 years, which means many bosses.  Where is your dad now?  I would like to be in touch with him again.  I sometimes still use one of his favorite Missouri ways of talking about deal making with clients: “I gave away the sleeves out of my vest.”

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Thanks for kind words Ben.  He is still alive and kicking out in Minnesota on the farm.

Send me an email at [removed email address] and I can forward his contact info.

 

Moderator Edit: Please do not include personal information in your posts. Use PrivateMessage to communicate (linked on the right).

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You can find me on both Facebook and LinkedIn.

Can’t figure out how to use PrivateMessage here.  Never used it before.

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Hi Ben, just sent you message on Facebook.

 

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Ben Myers wrote:

Would you ever run an MS-DOS program in 64-bit Windows?]

Yes. Yes. Yes. There’s a 16-bit program I thought was lost to me forever. If I can locate the software complete with data (somewhere in the backups — when Windows XP went to Windows 7), I will try your approach.

On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
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Ben Myers wrote:

I never investigated moving data back and forth between native Windows and what runs under a VM.

This is relatively easy to do with Oracle VirtualBox, and I suspect with other VM hypervisor applications as well.

Select data folders on the host OS can be shared with the VM guest OS using “shared folders”.

I have successfully set this up with WinXP (haven’t tried with anything older). I had a few programs that wouldn’t install on Windows 7, so it was child’s play to run them in a WinXP VM, and move data files back and forth with the Win 7 host via the “share”.

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Thanks, Ben, for the article.  It brought back memories of DOS programs I would have loved to replace and clients who would not migrate to newer software. Programs like Alpha4 database, pfs:FirstChoice database, and others I have happily forgotten.

For many years I maintained these DOS programs through various Windows versions for several clients using VM technology.  The hardest part was maintaining the ability to print to newer printers.  I used a simple inexpensive Windows utility named DOSprn  (available at DOSprn.com). The utility is still maintained and up-to-date.  Using DOSprn with various versions of Windows and a seeming multitude of printers connected in various ways to the Windows computer, I was able to reproduce exactly the printed output of the DOS programs as it would have originally appeared on paper.

I highly recommend that anyone trying to print from  a DOS program in an emulator take a look at DOSprn.

 

 

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windbg

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Thank you.  I came across DOSprn and it looked like it would do the job. As it turned out, slightly smaller monospace font was acceptable.

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johnf wrote:

Sure…but I would run it in it’s own virtual environment using Virtual Box or some other VM manager. You can easily take backup snapshots of the VM, as well as mapping drives if you need to dump data to your regular programs.

I regularly use both vDOS and VirtualBox (in which I have 16 VMs booting an array of OSes), but vDOS is really, really good at what it does. I use it at least weekly to run Q&A 4.0, a 30-yr old DOS database program for quick-and-dirty lists and databases. (I also have Microsoft Access installed in Windows, but that’s overkill for simple flat databases, which is I work with most frequently.) It’s also nice to know I can open tons of old Lotus 123, WordPerfect 5.0, and dBase III files from my archives, if I ever need to.

With vDOS, you map a subfolder on your “host machine” to a vDOS virtual drive, so it’s even easier to transfer data with the host than it is with VirtualBox.

And as for snapshots, remember that DOS programs were really, really small. Making a “snapshot” is as simple as zipping the vDOS subfolder with 7Zip or similar. That’s much easier and less cumbersome than capturing a VirtualBox snapshot.

 

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Hi Ben,

 

Thanks for this article – very informative.

I have a DOS program that I run regularly and need to print from.

I came across this several years ago and still use it. Maybe you have seen it as well.

It has to be run before opening DOSbox.

http://www.printfil.com

Hope that helps and is of interest.

Peace and all good.

Stephen

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One benefit of doing this via vDOS/DOSBox rather than in a VM is that an additional OS licence isn’t required. If I were doing something like this casually for myself I wouldn’t mind too much but if for someone else I’d definitely want the licensing to be above board.

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steeviebops wrote:

One benefit of doing this via vDOS/DOSBox rather than in a VM is that an additional OS licence isn’t required.

I have an old WinXP 32-bit ISO with a license key laying around that I used for a legacy VM. Didn’t cost me any extra… 🙂

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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And 32-bit Windows XP in a VM would do it, too.  As responses show, there are several ways to run DOS apps.  vDOS proved to be the path of least resistance, less time spent by me and 5 minute learning curve for client.  The good part of DOS is NO DRIVERS!

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JohnW

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I don’t have any DOS programs per se that I use any more, BUT there are a lot of times when I need to do stuff in the DOS window. For that, I use Take Command, or TCMD for short. I’m amazed that it didn’t make it to your list, but I can only assume that you didn’t know about it. 😉 So here goes:

TCMD is an enhanced DOS window that provides for various extensions to the command language, plus batch file extensions that provide a lot of extra capabilities. Since I started out with MS-DOS (back in the day when that’s all there was, although I did have a long and dubious flirtation with CP/M), the use of the command prompt has remained a handy tool. TCMD provides some extensions like aliases that I can use for “shorthand” to make some tasks easy, plus it provides a tabbed interface to allow multiple instances of the DOS window when necessary (not frequently needed, but handy from time to time). Visit https://jpsoft.com to download the trial version (registration is $49).

(Note: I have no connections whatsoever with JPSoft other than being a long-time-satisfied registered user.)

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windbg

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I did not know about TCMD.  But the DOS command line lives on and on right there in Windows 10 and 11 with CMD, best done with admin privileges.  Many of the old DOS commands (DIR, CD, PATH, DEL, etc) live on, augmented by other newer commands, many of which I often find helpful, like IPCONFIG.

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Of course I do. I use DOSBox (and its derivatives DOSBox ECE / DOSBox-X / DOSBox Staging) to run DOS Games like Master of Orion (the first edition that runs on DOS) and Civilization (again the first edition that runs on DOS and Windows 3.1) that I still play from time to time.

The release version of DOSBox has been stuck on 0.74-3 for several years but still runs these games well. Increasingly I have turned to the derivatives because they offer some other functionality that I want (e.g. support for sound fonts for use with General MIDI).

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

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Would you ever run an MS-DOS program in 64-bit Windows?

YES…..businesses have a need for this. Many still need DOS for manufacture machines that cost millions to replace.My doctor uses DOS program to run the Xray machine. It would cost him too much to replace it. He is an old timer as well. Use it until it breaks beyond repair. Not like this new generations that keeps changing things  and than complain about the environment being destroyed.

Home users have a need as well. My finical DOS program runs very well even thought it is over 40 years old now. It does not have any spyware unlike MS Excel or other programs that connect to internet.  There is zero changes it will be stolen since it is on a floppy disk. The old type is the 8in (first floppy), not the 5.25in or the 3.5in.

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A 40 year old financial program does not work well.  I speak as an accountant by day with boots on the ground experience with accounting software over the years.  (Goodness I almost can say 40 years of experience but not quite) .  There is so much more efficient ways to do financial information that a dos program built before the Internet is sooooooooo not running well.  Sorry folks, I can see the manufacturing scenerio, but the financial?  No way.  Come on folks, there is a point in time where change IS good, and not changing is actually detrimental.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Susan Bradley wrote:

No way. Come on folks, there is a point in time where change IS good, and not changing is actually detrimental.

Change is not good. Everything that comes before gets worse and worse from my experience at least. How many hackers have stolen financial data with these new program? A lot. With DOS program, it is 0. I will stick with it forever….well or at least well I am breathing. After that, no one will get my finical info since floppy will get toss into the garbage. Much safer place than having it stolen.

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Unless you have all of your money under your mattress your financial information and banking information is already online.  Two factor authentication, alerts for unusual information and appropriate caution.

Change is good.  Being stuck on a software program that is 40 years old is not good.  I remember the financial programs from back then.  I do not want to go back.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Thanks for your overall positive evaluation of vDos.

Some remarks:

vDos “installation” is mostly a convenient way to create a vDos directory and copy its files to there (and a desktop shortcut to vDos.exe). vDos is 100% portable, you could just copy its files to a PC. Or for instance create a vDos environment with DOS programs and data on an USB stick. Plug it into some Windows PC, and run the programs.

In a network setting there’s only one vDos.exe needed (at the server). No vDos at the workstations, those can just start that central vDos.exe (eventually by a shortcut). DOS programs and data files can be located anywhere in Windows filesystem.

DOS needs at least one drive (letter), in vDos that’s C:. By default assigned to the Windows current working directory as vDos starts. So generally that of vDos.exe, but C: can be reassigned to any Windows directory. Placing DOS programs in that directory is a convenient first start/test. Many (non networked) users will just leave it there.

Printing to DOS or Windows printers should mostly work out-of-the-box. If customization is needed, the documentation (Printing.pdf document) should help. And yes, that can a bit daunting due to the number of options.

The vDos/DOS window is usually 25 lines by 80 columns. Its size is not freely scaled, instead depends on the dimensions of the individual character cells. For instance increasing both by 1 pixel results in a window 25 pixels taller and 80 pixels wider. The percentage given in for instance WINDOW = 79 or 80 will merely be an indication until you would have a 100+K monitor :).

Biased vDos developer.

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Ben Myers

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I found the descriptions in the printing PDF to come up a little short on clarity, mostly because there are bare descriptions of syntax, but few examples.  So I had to make a support request to find out how to the printing to fit on the page, rather than being chopped off on the right, with some extra empty pages.  Even so, I still do not pretend to understand all the options for printing.

Still, overall, vDOS is an extremely functional and clean package easy to set up and use, delivering predictable results.  Its competitors?  Not so.

 

 

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WSJosSchaars

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XTree would be the one DOS program I would consider running in modern Windows.

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wavy

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Give up XTree, use xplorer2.  See https://www.zabkat.com for details.  Best Windows file manager I’ve ever seen or used.  //S//

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KB6OJS wrote:

Give up XTree, use xplorer2.  Best Windows file manager I’ve ever seen or used.

Well, this thread is about DOS and running DOS programs, so anyone interested in those topics probably has little interest in yet another Windows Explorer lookalike.

XTree was an outstanding file manager — and much better suited for the DOS environment than any GUI or mouse-centric alternative.

However, those days are gone, and XTree is no longer viable. For instance, like all DOS programs it was limited to disk sizes of 2 GB, so not very useful these days.

 

ibe98765 wrote:

XTree would be the one DOS program I would consider running in modern Windows.

If you like the XTree interface, you may be interested in ZTree. It’s a Windows program, not DOS, but is inspired by the old XTree interface.

 

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wavy

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Good point, well taken.  My thinking was that if you’re in need of a file manager to run in a DOS window within Windows, then why go retro?  But then again….

DOS apps would probably also not recognize the longer filenames that current file systems support, so that’s an additional strike against using XTree, I suspect.  And I’m going to give ZTree a look, just for old-time’s sake. 😁

//Steve//

 

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zTree is very powerful terminal based program. Wish there was a Linux version.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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ibe98765 wrote:

XTree would be the one DOS program I would consider running in modern Windows.

still got the original box 😉

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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