Win8.1 Update becomes the new patch ‘baseline’

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	TOP STORY Win8.1 Update becomes the new patch ‘baseline’
	By Woody Leonhard When Windows 8.1 Update came down the chute last week, Microsoft tossed in a totally unexpected surprise: if you want Windows 8.1 security patches in the future, you have to install Win8.1 Update first. The requirement is unlike any other in Windows’ history — and it’s been made more complicated by semantics and ongoing Win8.1 Update installation problems.

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The full text of this column is posted at windowssecrets.com/top-story/win8-1-update-becomes-the-new-patch-baseline/ (paid content, opens in a new window/tab).

Columnists typically cannot reply to comments here, but do incorporate the best tips into future columns.[/td]

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Two questions: I have a Surface RT with 8.1 installed. Is the Update also for the tablet?
When MS 9 comes out, will it be possible to install over the Surface RT 8.1?

Thanks,
Howard (songfish)

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Two questions: I have a Surface RT with 8.1 installed. Is the Update also for the tablet?
When MS 9 comes out, will it be possible to install over the Surface RT 8.1?

Thanks,
Howard (songfish)

Yes, Win 8.1 Update is for the tablet. As far as Windows 9 goes, there has been no announcements from Microsoft about Windows 9. You’ll just have to wait and see as we all will. :huh:

Joe

--Joe

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I bought a new desktop with Windows 8 64-bit;
I see all these forcing hints from MS to “upgrade” to 8.1;
What I really want, is to downgrade to Windows 7;
8 and 8.1 are crap for ageing mouse users.

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You have an improved Win 7 underneath Win 8, install ClassicShell and bypass the metro start screen, you really never have to see or use anything ‘metro’ if you choose.

http://www.classicshell.net/

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@spottyginger – You have an improved Win 7 underneath Win 8, install ClassicShell and bypass the Metro Start screen, you really never have to see or use anything ‘metro’ if you choose. http://www.classicshell.net/

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Windows 8.1 Update (that most Users around me know nothing about) real problems:
I teach Windows (all current versions) for a large computer club and provide support many of the members hardware and software problems. Very few of those who have Windows 8.1, even those who have Windows Update on manual, are even aware of the Windows 8.1 Update or its implications. So far I have had three computers on Automatic Updates that have failed the Windows 8.1 Update KB2919355. The error says corrupt files. In an attempt to correct this, I have tried multiple attempts to reinstall the update manually (redownload with and without the virus program running), Microsoft FIXIT website to correct Windows Update and to repair BITS, chkdsk /f, sfc /scannow, CheckSUR by running at the Commamd Prompt “DISM.exe /Online /Cleanup-image /Scanhealth” (identified there was a problem) then “DISM.exe /Online /Cleanuo-image /Restorehealth” (did NOT fix problem). I finally tried Restore Points back in March, then Windows 8.1 Update installed MANUALLY, not on Automatic, along with the reinstallation of other updates.

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After hearing than most of the nation’s ATM were using Win XP OS, I can understand a OFV for current windows versions. Funny how all the banks ATM’s didn’t jump on the Windows 8 ‘Metro Tiles’ band wagon, tailor made for finger users, right?

Bottom line for me is that MS went down the ‘Metro’ road using the philosophy that ‘consumers need to be told what they want’, but having Win 7 for comparison revealed desktop users didn’t need ‘Metro’ windows. Additionally, MS seemed to want to lump all users the same, corporate and personal.

As I completely bypass the use of anything ‘Metro’, I really have Win 7.5. Not sure why MS released a point one and the newest ‘Update’ isn’t a 8.2, for me, beside ‘security’ issues any changes to the OS should elevate the version numbers, (limited to 1 decimal place, please).

As ‘Metro’ gets pushed aside, I wonder how Crow tastes?

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Woody, I was introduced to your writing by the O’Reilly-published “…Annoyances” series (I still have my copies) and have thoroughly enjoyed your wit and insight ever since. I first subscribed to Woody’s Lounge, and your series of newsletters on Windows and the Office Suite around that time (mid-1990’s). In the intervening years, I’ve gone from teaching Microsoft Office to working an IT Help Desk, eventually branching out to support for Mac and Windows desktops, to working as a Project Manager is a non-IT field.

I have to tell you that every time I read one your articles on Windows 8 I want to hug my Mac. No OS is perfect, but in the 11 or so years I have been using Mac OS X on my primary computers at work and home, I have had NONE of the update issues I used to regularly experience with Windows. While I still occasionally use Windows 7 in a VM (current supported version at my workplace), I must say that the ONLY thing I miss about Windows at all are the better written, more full featured versions of the Office suite. The Mac version of Microsoft Office is okay and does what I need done, but it is “poor relations” to its Windows counterpart.

Thanks for your contributions to my knowledge and understanding of the Microsoft world of products. I have learned so much from your writing over the years and truly, truly owe you my entire IT career. You have my undying gratitude and even though I don’t use Windows or Windows-based Office as my primary production tools, what I learned from you about them gave me what I needed to launch a new career. Thank you.

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Should have stayed with Windows 8.0. After “trusting” Microsoft, updated 2 identical HP Envy notebooks to 8.1, which only caused minor issues. However “8.1 update” is now preventing both notebooks to have Metro App issues. For instance, Kindle opens and closes immediately and is unusable. And this is not the only app with this “feature.” Did some troubleshooting on my own. all to no avail, but discovered if I create a new “Microsoft Account” account on the same computer the apps open fine. So, currently, after having “Microsoft Answer Desk” remotely trouble shoot our problem for nearly 3 hours performing commands I never heard of, I am now awaiting a call from “One of the Support Professionals” on 4/25. I hope to report a fix here…(Oh, I did an 8.0 image on my wife’s pc beforehand, but not mine.)

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A three-track approach for interim dot-version upgrades seems very reasonable. Linux does something like this by having LTS (Long Term Stability) Releases which only need security patches, and Current Releases which are updated frequently and include stability and other non-security updates. I see no reason Windows couldn’t go with such an approach.

The third patching paradigm is borrowed from phones and tablets, where it’s one size fits all, everyone is on automatic updates, and everyone takes every patch as it comes along. That’s a lot like what has happened with Windows 8.1 Update(s). Very suitable for RT and Mobile, but not so much for production PCs.

So we might see Mobile, Personal and Stability tracks for future Windows versions. (I don’t like the term Old Fogys, since a lot of much younger corporate and hobbyist users also don’t like instabilities and forced updates.) You could then choose to be Bleeding Edge, Mainstream or Conservative in your patching approach.

Linux is already there (except for the Mobile Track — we Linux users call this track Android). No reason Microsoft can’t copy a successful strategy. Linus Torvalds won’t sue for patent infringement!

(Note: I am not saying Android keeps users up to date. Some vendors do, some don’t.)

-- rc primak

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I’ve been a “PC” user since the early 80’s, all the way through DOS to Win7. My next computer will be an Apple. Those of us who use computers for intensive graphics work have been tossed off the bus with Win8 et. al. I guess we’re enough of a minority that MS is willing–if not eager–to let that happen. I guess that’s called the course of progress.

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“If the speculation is accurate, there’ll be a Metro version, a desktop-first version…”
Thank goodness! I was wondering how long it would take the current fashion, not just at MS, to wear off. It’s happening sooner than I had hoped. One version for all devices, though really mobile-centric, is a really bad engineering idea. I liken it to trying to design a flying car – all you end up with is a crappy car and a crappy plane.

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I’ve been a “PC” user since the early 80’s, all the way through DOS to Win7. My next computer will be an Apple. Those of us who use computers for intensive graphics work have been tossed off the bus with Win8 et. al. I guess we’re enough of a minority that MS is willing–if not eager–to let that happen. I guess that’s called the course of progress.

I had just about worked myself up to a touch screen after using my I Phone for a few years. I did an update tonight on the phone and it went flawlessly. Also it didn’t try to sell me Bing disguised as an update. Reading this article tonight scares the heck out of me. I’m tired of all these shenanigans of Microsoft and have decided to get out and switch to Apple. That’s after about 30 years as a Windows user. You are in deep trouble Microsoft

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I appreciate this very helpful article. I maintain a fleet of machines ranging from Windows XP to Windows 8.1. The only thing that I would have mentioned in the article is that the update file is over 600 MB in length. A user should plan for that file size before downloading.

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Well, I have said so long to MS crap. I still have my 2 XP’s 2003 vintage unhooked from the internet. I still use Office 2003 Pro and other windows apps. I have 2 Linux pc’s that I use for internet work and I have loaded MS office and some other windows apps using WINE. It works just fine for my purposes. The wonderful thing about Linux is that I can leverage my older hardware. Sorry Microsoft! The days that you were dictating my choices are gone and so is your OS.

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Woody Leonhard, you said:

“If the speculation is accurate, there’ll be a Metro version, a desktop-first version, and what I like to call the “Old Fogy’s” version (OFV).

“…The Old Fogy’s Version (I should trademark that) is meant for companies that don’t want to undertake the regular self-flagellation ceremony of updating all PCs every few months. As noted above, OFV will get security patches, but no significant UI ‘improvements.'”

Well, Woody, I have a suggestion for you: Don’t downgrade people who prefer to stick with what works. Microsoft is already doing more than well enough at that job. The phrase “old fogy” doesn’t imply anything positive about the people who are its targets.

You go ahead and trademark that brilliant remark. I’ll trademark the phrase “Tell Windows Secrets where to stick it.”

I was a fan of this operation for well over a decade. I’m getting less so almost every time I read crap like this. I let my paid subscription lapse quite some time ago because of crap like this, where I was made to feel a backward stranger reading a newsletter I had previously seen as a welcoming friend. I have yet re-subscribe — despite some impulses to do so — because I keep seeing crap like this.

Well, this “old fogy” is going to treat you like the errant child you seem: Treat your elders (albeit it’s doubtful I’m any older than you) with some well-earned respect.

Fred Langa certainly knew better.

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some well-earned respect.

Well, this old fogy didn’t take it as disrespectful or something to be read literally. If anything, as a tongue-in-cheek ironic compliment. Old enough to know that, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

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Fair enough.

Of late perhaps I’ve grown hypersensitive.

Or over-stimulated, in a sense. Countless of my clients have been alarmed by Microsoft’s fear-mongering, perhaps most onerous being the alarming messages produced on their XP desktops by Security Essentials. Over and over I’ve had to explain that the end of the world has not arrived; and they can continue to use XP for awhile if necessary, especially offline.

People can understand the issues. Why not be informative as opposed to propagandistic and alarmist?

Stampeding people into buying Windows 8-point-whatever is obviously the intent. I understand the motive. But the method stinks of desperation. And Microsoft is squandering an opportunity to murder its own bad reputation for strong-arming its users.

To then see those abused users given a label whose first impression is negative, sort of set my teeth on edge.

Closer examination of the article suggests the writer places himself in the ‘Fogy’ category, and not in a negative way.

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Early in April a major update was applied to my system by Windows Update. Apparently it was KB 2919355, Windows 8.1 Update 1. The problem came as the update tried to restart the system. It put the system in a locked up state with endless uninterruptible scrolling, I finally had to force it to reboot at a back level. Strangely, it appears to no longer be at that level and KB 2919355 seems to be semi-operational. It’s installed but I see no evidence of it actually doing anything. There is no integration of the desktop and start screen.. SPECCY shows it and one later update. So I don’t know what to believe or how to obtain the real update. Thanks a lot, Microsoft.

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Listen up Woody! A PC without a keyboard and/or mouse is a totally unproductive machine. It’s mainly output oriented with very little input from the user. I, and all my friends that use computers, will stick with Win 7. Win 8 is a loser that has left productive people behind and is catering to the teenie boppers for display appeal. I guess you have to follow the money.

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Listen up Woody! A PC without a keyboard and/or mouse is a totally unproductive machine. It’s mainly output oriented with very little input from the user. I, and all my friends that use computers, will stick with Win 7. Win 8 is a loser that has left productive people behind and is catering to the teenie boppers for display appeal. I guess you have to follow the money.

I have a desktop with a keyboard and mouse. I also have W8.1 Update. If I was still working (being retired) I would be as productive as when I was on XP, if not more so. It’s just untrue that it has to have a touchscreen; I don’t have one and have no problems. You may not like Win 8, but please don’t assume that means it’s rubbish. I don’t like Beethoven’s music but I don’t state it’s rubbish.

Eliminate spare time: start programming PowerShell

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Mr. Leonhard — If you don’t like the weather app appearing full screen, why not fork over $4.99 to StarDock.com for its Modern Mix utility that enables Modern UI apps to open in a resizeable window on your desktop like the productivity programs we’re all used to? Problem solved.

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@pchelp,

Microsoft tried being informative for years publicizing that support was going to end. The end date was even extended. People obviously do not understand the issues. It seems the only way to get their attention is to be alarmist. Besides Microsoft have not said the PC will stop working just that it is running an unsupported OS.

The intent is and has been to get users to move to a newer, more stable, and more secure OS. Windows 8/8.1 just happen to be the latest version. Users had the opportunity to move to Vista or Windows 7 but many chose not to. Now they are paying the price.

If you choose to think that this is a strong arming anyone, I choose to disagree. It is extremely easy to “throw rocks” and use extreme terms. What specifically would you have had Microsoft do?

Joe

--Joe

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Hey good thoughts JoeP517. Further, of more importance to me, is Woody’s latest piece titled “Win8.1 Update becomes the new patch ‘baseline'” which includes excellent analyses of the Microsoft saga. Okay, what is the difference between an update, upgrade, SP, patch, or a new version and supposedly profound, excellent, and milestone OS invention? I grew up in my Dad’s automotive dealership following WW II when new models were modestly introduced every year. As a kid in the 1950s and ’60s, I could look at a snapshot of most any car’s taillight or front fender and name the brand and model. Now, there are so many little motorized “bugs” buzzing the streets, at age 77, I can’t name any of them, not to mention the many quirks and names that the automotive industry applies to these hundreds of “tin cans” that now are convoluting our streets and highways. I see a strong correlation between the continued and far too frequent production of computer operating systems and the weird vehicles cramping our streets. Why does Microsoft need to keep changing names and versions of so-called improvements vs. continuing enhancements that are justified with a sequential and sensible identification system that makes sense and consumers can logically and empirically evaluate, then economically move up to the point when the benefits achieve positive evaluation, professional testing, and merit? When looking at and evaluating the sequence of so-called improvements we’ve seen starting with the approximate date of 9 December 1987 Windows 2.0 x86–16-bit, 27 May 1988 Windows 2.10 x86–16-bit, 13 March 1989 Windows 2.11 x86–16-bit, 22 May 1990 Windows 3.0 x86–16-bit, 6 April 1992 Windows 3.1 x86–16-bit, 27 October 1992 Windows for work groups 3.1 x86–16-bit, 27 July 1993 Windows NT 3.1, DEC Alpha, MIPS, 8 November 1993 Windows for Work groups 3.11 x86–16-bit, 21 September 1994 Windows NT 3.5, DEC Alpha, MIPS, 30 May 1995 Windows NT 3.51, DEC Alpha, MIPS, PowerPC, 24 August 1995, Windows 95, 24 August 1996 Windows NT 4.0, DEC Alpha, MIPS, PowerPC, 25 June 1998 Windows 98, 5 May 1999 Windows 98, 17 February 2000 Windows 2000, 14 September 2000 Windows ME, 25 October 2001 Windows XP, 25 October 2001 Windows XP 64-Bit Edition (v2002) Itanium, 31 October 2002 Windows XP Media Center Edition, 28 March 2003 Windows XP 64-Bit Edition (v2003) Itanium, 24 April 2003 Windows Server 2003, x64, Itanium, 30 September 2003 Windows XP Media Center Edition 2004, 12 October 2004 Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005, 25 April 2005 Windows XP Professional x64 Edition x64, 6 December 2005 Windows Server 2003 x64, Itanium, 8 July 2006 Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs, 8 November 2006 Windows Vista for Business use, x64, 30 January 2007 Windows Vista for Home use, 7 November 2007 Windows Home Server, 27 February 2008 Windows Server 2008, 22 July 2009 Windows 7, 22 October 2009 Windows Server 2008 R2, x64, 6 April 2011 Windows Home Server 2011, x64, 4 September 2012 Windows Server 2012 x64, 26 October 2012 Windows 8 IA-32, x64, 26 October 2012, Windows RT ARM, and 18 October 2013, Windows 8.1 (please excuse any mistakes I’ve made above, but I’m taxing my memory). Now we’re faced with Windows 9 lurking around the corner. Granted that cars currently have weird names that continue to emerge, I don’t understand why, especially Microsoft seems to feel the need to continue with a nonsensical name/numbering system as they supposedly make intermediate (updates) improvements in their operating systems. To Microsoft–please discontinue your crude meaningless names and continue your improvements with a logical and sensible improvement plan while omitting all of your patchwork and insane numbered updates that people (at least I won’t purchase). Are you only looking at fools who, incidentally, will spend their money if a new name or larger version number attracts your attention? Incidentally, I’m still a Microsoft fan.

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My graduate students tell me that I am “wordy,” which obviously is true. However, I must add to my previous post. I now have an iPhone and was in the Apple store yesterday in KC and it was packed with technicians and customers needing advice and attention. I easily and quickly got my iPhone fixed and reprogrammed without cost. When answering JoeP517 regarding “What specifically would you have had Microsoft do?” I say to Microsoft wake up, tune up, and get up-to-date. Be sensitive to customer needs. As MRCS states, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” To Microsoft, stop tampering with your umpteen updates and “fixes” until you have something of substance, quality, and permanence to offer. Wake up and work to please and service your customers in a considerate, logical, and sequential manner. After many years of faithful trust in Microsoft, I must say that I’m getting very annoyed with your constant bombardment of updates, notifications of problems, and continual annoying announcements of mistakes and support variations. Granted that the world of computing is changing rapidly, there are a large number of users in the world who depend on your products to do our work. I have, since starting my computer work in the late 1960s, NEVER, played a game on a computer or used a computer for trivial purposes. Well, this is my main problem with Apple although the music/game emphasis there is easy to avoid. To Microsoft, please get your house in order, fix your problems before they smack us in the face, and get smart. To JoeP517, thank you for this opportunity to vent. We need to hear more.

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@bluebird2

Microsoft is attempting to figure out how to balance consumer and business needs. For years people have excoriated Microsoft for moving too slowly, taking too long between OS releases, & missing consumer trends. OTOH, business users are quite fine with 3 years or so between OS releases. The process of figuring out the proper balance for consumer & business has inevitably led to problems.

IMO: They are trying to get to a “base” OS which will be common across the breadth of devices Windows supports but will have different UI’s and update cadence. Product naming has never been a Microsoft strength. I too wish they’d choose a name and then stick with it which they may do if a subscription SKU for Windows is introduced.

Part of the reason for the XP mess is that Microsoft chose to release XP SP-2 rather than call it a new version of Windows. Based on the timing and content arguably it should have been a new OS release. Then XP would’ve have followed the various other versions with a much shorter life time. Then Microsoft extended the end-of-support date which gave all customers an excuse to not update.

I think it is disingenuous to criticize Microsoft for updates and fixes as though they are the only vendor who does this. There are updates and problems with OSX and ChromeOS otherwise why would there be updates for them. Apple and Google are tinkering, changing, and fixing all the time too. If you search Apple forums you’ll find plenty of people who have problems when a major OSX update is released.

In many ways Microsoft has lead the way in devices and UI. Granted when they introduced Windows XP Tablet PC edition in 2005 the PC hardware was nowhere near ready to properly support a tablet device properly. There were Windows based touch phones when the iPhone was introduced which had been out for years. The things that Apple did was take advantage of hardware advances and apply tremendous industrial design. As far as the UI goes, look now at what is going on with the latest IOS and Android releases. Flat look and much deeper app integration with the OS just like Windows Phone has done since version 7.

Joe

--Joe

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JoeP517, I like what you write. You make sense and cut right to the chase. Granted, I’m compulsive and this probably is one of the reasons why the constant bombardment of something new, something fixed drives me nuts, or better [in your words] “Apple and Google are tinkering, changing, and fixing all the time too.” “Disingenuous to criticize Microsoft for updates and fixes as though they are the only vendor who does this”? — Very true, maybe my brain needs an upgrade, I didn’t word that properly. As you say, if Microsoft would establish a “base” OS, give it a permanent name and sequential numbering system, then provide specific but limited branches for clearly identified populations of users, everyone would be better off. No more rambling through rubric such as XP, SP-2, ME (gasp), Vista, 7, 8, 8.1, and 9 dangling as a carrot in front of a rabbit’s nose. If Microsoft hasn’t figured out how to balance consumer and business needs by now, something is wrong. Thanks, I appreciate your well informed contributions. Competition is vicious which fuels development, innovation, and something newer and fancier. I’m afraid at the current speed of development/advancement that the industry is going to eventually strangle itself.

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Firstly I entirely agree regarding RT: confusing and ridiculous, who really wants a cut down version of Windows? Good riddance.

Secondly, to be honest, apart from some, as you say “mildly” irritating problems, downloading and installing KB 2919355 wasn’t really that bad.

And finally, I do believe 8.1 is far the best option, and keeping right up to date with the latest OS is again, the best option. So I await 9 with bated breath..

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Why waste a task icon and a whole screen just to see the weather – install sweather, show temp in notify zone, click to pop up 5 day forecast, hit escape to dismiss.

seems to me that all this touchy, feely, pretty stuff makes what was once simple, much harder, and what was once hard, nigh on impossible.

I’m going to skip 8 and wait for 9.

nw

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