Why some Outlooks will stop working with Microsoft services

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MICROSOFT 365 By Peter Deegan In a few weeks, some Outlook software will stop working with Microsoft’s online services, such as Microsoft 365. If you
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rontpxz81, Mr. Austin, lmacri, doriel

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I have Office 2013 & don’t use or care about Outlook 365 but I guess it’s time to switch to Thunderbird when I buy my next PC.

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@blueboy714

nope!

It is time to switch to a linux distro.

 

 

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You don’t need to switch.  Office 2013 with Service Pack 1 onwards will still work.

Peter Deegan

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My workplace uses Outlook 2003 still. How will I check my email now? IE11 is saying that Office 365 t will stop working soon. No other browsers are authorized by our IT department since they are a security risk and do not work with our internal apps. Hopefully IT figure something out. Mostly will have to pay another big check to MS to allow us to keep using them.

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We have some intranet applications, that work only within IE. They do not work under Edge, because its Chromium based, nor under other browsers. We still have not found the way how to make them work in a different browser. Prepare the wallets, ladies and gentlemen! We will be charged in 3, 2, 1 ..

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The future of Internet Explorer (“IE”) on Windows 10 is in Microsoft Edge. What does this mean for commercial organizations, IT admins, developers, and end users? Microsoft Edge brings you a faster, more secure, and more modern web experience than Internet Explorer. Also, Microsoft Edge with Internet Explorer mode (“IE mode”), is the only browser with built-in compatibility for legacy IE-based sites and apps.
…
If you’re an organization, the next steps will be to determine if your organization has legacy browser dependencies. To enable legacy browser support in Microsoft Edge, you’ll need to set up Internet Explorer mode. Learn more on our Internet Explorer mode webpage and read the Getting Started guide.

Internet Explorer 11 desktop app retirement FAQ

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doriel

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2003?  That is a security risk right there.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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As Susan said, Outlook 2003 is old, it’s really ancient and a security risk.  Best to move on.

There is an IE mode in Edge, which I use often.

Peter Deegan

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I have Office 365/Outlook and it has one extremely annoying mail-related quirk.  Specifically, it will change on its own my settings for AOL mail (which Verizon forced its old verizon.net mail users to switch to) to Yahoo mail (which I have never had).  (It’s a MAPI connection).  That’s right (and I’ve read this on many other posts), for several years now it will actually change the settings in the Outlook program on my computer.  After it does that, Outlook loses sync and will no longer download mail from AOL, even if you click on “sync”.  You have to actually shut down Outlook and restart it to get the sync going again but it won’t last more than a day or so.  Apparently MS has never addressed this bizarre behavior of Outlook but I hope the new version (2021) you mention fixes this.

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Why?
Dropping support for older Outlooks is security-related.

More important goal is to push customers to subscription maybe?

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Alex5723

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Honestly no, they are shutting off basic authentication.  This style of authentication can be hacked/cracked easily.  We complain that Microsoft is insecure, then we complain when they mandate security.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Peter Deegan, b

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We complain that Microsoft is insecure, then we complain when they mandate security.

You are correct, its not an easy situation for MSFT. But I am always cautious, when someone says what I must do, especially when it costs extra money. I apologize, its part of my personality. Maybe native Mail app from Windows 10 can do the job for free, so user does not need to subscribe for M365 plan?

If you do need to set up your mail account for the first time, the Mail client supports all the standard mail systems, including (of course) Outlook.com, Exchange, Gmail, Yahoo! Mail, iCloud, and any POP or IMAP account you may have. (POP isn’t a choice with Windows 8.1’s Mail client, which requires the superior IMAP.)

Source: PCMag

I use the Mail application for my gmail and it works very well. No troubles so far. It also works for our company cloud hosted emails, but we primarilly use Office 365 click-to-run applications.

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I still use word 97 on XP,  xcel 2003, and ppt 2007.

But I do not use explorer at all although the opsys might as it seems to fail on some things like searching when  there is too much data being found that fits the search criteria.

Is my hotmail account going to stop working ?????

 

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I’m enquiring on behalf of a less techy friend.

She uses Outlook 2010 with her “@hotmail.co.uk” mail address, and it looks pretty certain that Hotmail will stop delivering her mail from 1 November.

If I have understood this correctly, I can see a couple of options, though AW members may have other suggestions.  She has an iPhone, so could have an “@icloud.com” address – but she would have to advise all her contacts, many, many of them.  She could change her mail client; my suggestion would be Thunderbird, but all her stored mail will be on Outlook 2010.  Is there an import function on Thunderbird from a .PST file?

I doubt that she feels like buying a new version of MS Office, or going to a subscription plan with Office 365.

What are other people doing after 1 Nov 21?

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Does this mean we can’t access our hotmail.com account from our Chrome Web Browser?

What about One Drive?  Can we sign on to One Drive using our hotmail.com signon?

Could somebody please explain this more clearly for the non-technical readers of this blog?

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Web access using browsers will continue as usual. Outlook software on PCs versions lower than 2013SP1 will stop functioning.

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To be clear ..

> and it looks pretty certain that Hotmail will stop delivering her mail from 1 November.

The Hotmail account will continue to work after 1 November.

The only change is that the older Outlook (2010 in this case) won’t be able to connect.

There’s no need to change to another email address.

On an iPhone, she could use Outlook mobile app or the iPhone mail app to connect to the Hotmail account.

On a PC, there’s always using a web browser to check email.  Many people do that and don’t even bother with an email client — that’s OK if you’re always online.

Peter Deegan

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doriel wrote:

More important goal is to push customers to subscription maybe?

That’s always the headline, but there is very little disagreement that the older Outlook versions are past their sell-by date, all for security-related reasons.

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ScotchJohn wrote:

I’m enquiring on behalf of a less techy friend.

She uses Outlook 2010 with her “@hotmail.co.uk” mail address, and it looks pretty certain that Hotmail will stop delivering her mail from 1 November.

If I have understood this correctly, I can see a couple of options, though AW members may have other suggestions.  She has an iPhone, so could have an “@icloud.com” address – but she would have to advise all her contacts, many, many of them.  She could change her mail client; my suggestion would be Thunderbird, but all her stored mail will be on Outlook 2010.  Is there an import function on Thunderbird from a .PST file?

I doubt that she feels like buying a new version of MS Office, or going to a subscription plan with Office 365.

What are other people doing after 1 Nov 21?

@ScotchJohn, if your friend is looking for a free solution, I can recommend eM Client. You can manage one or maybe two email addresses with the free version.

It wasn’t an Outlook PST file, but this spring I successfully migrated to it a CompuServe account (including both emails and contacts) that I was still managing with Windows Mail on a Vista system.

The company is based in Europe (Czech Republic) and I am very happy with the software. Well worth looking into IMHO.

 

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My users have an O365 subscription and use Office 2016 on the desktop.  We still use a local AD server.  We don’t have/use Azure AD.  I set up people’s email profile in Outlook using their email address and the password set in O365.  Is this going to stop working?

According to this article…

https://www.kraftkennedy.com/modern-authentication-vs-basic-authentication/

…they are using modern auth to log in the Office 365 desktop app.

My users GREATLY prefer local Outlook over OWA.  They are going to kill me if Outlook stops working.

Thanks.

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You have Outlook 2016 so the setup is fine.

Again, it’s only Outlook 2013 before SP1 that are affected.

Peter Deegan

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Ben Shoemaker

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Are Windows Live Mail 2011 and 2012 affected by this?

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I can’t say for sure but most likely yes.

Even if they keep working, they are old, out-of-support and risky from a security point of view.  Far better to move to something newer and supported … even if it’s access via a web browser.

Peter Deegan

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Seff

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Thanks Peter. I assume therefore that any non-MS freestanding email client will be ok. The trouble is that I’ve never found one that is as efficient, simple to use and decent-looking as Live Mail. It’s also been 100% reliable for many years without the need for continuing support or new features. It works well on both my Win7 machine (with 0patch) and my upgraded Win10 machine.

As for security, I’ve always understood that to be provided essentially by the anti-virus etc software when opening emails rather than the email client itself, and in my case as a home user the email client is simply downloading emails from my ISP’s webmail which has a decent filter but is otherwise cumbersome and unattractive to use.

Unless anyone knows of an email client that looks and works just like Live Mail then if I am forced to move from that then I suppose I shall add that email address to one of my browser-based email clients.

Do you anticipate that we shall be unable to open an affected email client after October even to access existing emails or will it simply prevent us downloading/sending new emails?

Many thanks for you article and subsequent advice.

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It’s not the security on the desktop – it’s the security of the mail server.  Attacker throw attacks at these mail servers that still support these older protocols and then the attackers gain access.

“More than 99 percent of password spray attacks use legacy authentication protocols

• More than 97 percent of credential stuffing attacks use legacy authentication
• Azure AD accounts in organizations that have disabled legacy authentication experience 67 percent fewer compromises than those where legacy authentication is enabled

You might want to try out eM Client | The Best Email Client for Windows and Mac

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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doriel, Seff, Peter Deegan

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I use POP3 with Outlook2010 to access my Microsoft email account, will pop3 stop working?

The pop3 for outlook uses the non-standard ports and uses TLS.

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POP uses basic authentication

“Clients (aka Outlook 2010) that rely on legacy authentication protocols (including but not limited to, SMTP, POP, IMAP, ActiveSync Basic, MAPI Basic) will be prevented from accessing Office 365 and will be required to reauthenticate with Modern Authentication”

That’s basic authentication which is subject to hacking/cracking and is the bulk of the security issues in email.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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So if I understand this correctly, if POP and SMTP is included with basic authentication, does that mean all pop3 clients will stop working (e.g. Thunderbird)?

In regards to using free Microsoft email accounts (e.g. msn.com).

Jerry

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I have a few questions for those of you more knowledgeable than I on this subject.

1. The original Outlook 2013 obviously did not include the ability to use Modern Authentication. It was added with SP1 in Feb 2014, which was over a year and a half before full support ended for Outlook 2010, and that was five years before extended support ended. So why didn’t MS also give 2010 that ability as well while it was still supported?

2. As far as all MS Office products go, this only affects the ability to use Outlook prior to 2013 SP1, right? Some people writing on this topic here and elsewhere sometimes use the names Office and Outlook interchangeably. Just to be clear, it is only older Outlook products that will cease to function properly come Nov 1 and not older versions of Word, Excel, etc.?

3. Will this change affect non-MS email clients, such as Thunderbird and eM Client? I have not been able to find any mention of this change on their sites, nor anything about what forms of authentication their products are using. Presumably if those programs are connecting to providers who use Microsoft 365 Exchange servers then shouldn’t it affect them too if not connecting with Modern Authentication?

4. I connect to the Internet using Century Link. I have been searching their site and asking their support people to find out what servers they are using and what kind of authentication they will require come Nov 1 and, indeed, if they even know anything at all about any of this. So far, I have been coming up empty with them. Does anybody know how this will affect their customers?

Thank you.

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Quick answers:

1. It’s possible that too many changes were necessary to Outlook 2010 to make it compatible.  Or it could have been an arbitrary cutoff.  Whatever the reason, it’s the reality we all have to live with.
2. Correct – none of this affects Word, Excel or PowerPoint.
   NOTE: older Outlooks will continue to work – just not with Microsoft hosted mailboxes.  They should still work with other mailboxes, depending on how they are connected.
3. You’d have to ask those software makers.  I expect they already support more secure connection methods … they should.
4. It is VERY unlikely that an ISP mail system for customers would be using Microsoft 365 hosted Exchange.  ISP mail is usually done ‘on the cheap’ with inhouse servers and very limited features.  If your ISP was affected by this or any other connection change, they should be notifying customers well before a change.

Peter Deegan

 

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Douglas

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Do you have a link to an article with the Nov 1st date for basic authentication being turn off?

 

Is Exchange Online different then Office365 basic authentication? I ask because Exchange online cut off date is Oct 1st, 2022. Article

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I found this Microsoft article with the Nov 1st cut off date in it (Linked), but it only talks about blocking old Outlook versions (not turning off any protocols). So to me it appears pop3 will still be around until the Exchange online cut off date for basic auth (including protocols) will be Oct 1st 2022.

I’m a reading this right?

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In short:

1 Nov 2021 is the cut-off for older Outlook’s than 2013 SP1.  Regardless of what connection method is used.  An Outlook less than seven years old will be necessary to safely and securely connect to Microsoft hosted email.

1 Oct 2022 will be the cut-off for all Basic Authentication on the Exchange Server end.

It’s already not recommended and Microsoft is disabling it for organizations who don’t have users connecting with Basic Authentication.

Peter Deegan

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Reflecting on the publicity given to this in the non-technical press to the non-informed majority of users of Microsoft’s online products, I am reminded of these immortal lines in Douglas Adams’ “Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy”:

“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”

I foresee hundreds of thousands of users of Hotmail and similar products whose eMail will stop working on 1 November, and they won’t have a clue why.

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Being the “family” computer guy is going to be rough in November.

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doriel wrote:

Why?
Dropping support for older Outlooks is security-related.

More important goal is to push customers to subscription maybe?

I agree with you about that, Doriel.

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Before the Office 2010 bundle stopped receiving security updates last year (2020), I’d already switched to Office 2019 using single-machine client licenses. $50 each, and they work OK.

There was only one Outlook hiccup this year – although I’ve *client machine licenses* instead of subscriptions, Microsoft scrambled a datacloud server setting for a few hours which stopped most all Outlook mail. But it got fixed.

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