Want a faster, quieter PC? Cool it in water.

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PUBLIC DEFENDER By Brian Livingston I’m not actually suggesting that you soak your computer in a bathtub. But keeping a high-powered CPU from frying —
[See the full post at: Want a faster, quieter PC? Cool it in water.]

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ibe98765, Norio, fisher75, TechTango, a, DLivesInTexas, WSDKS01

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I have been using water cooling on my computer’s CPU for well over a decade. I started using water cooling to maintain household peace. At the time, my computer was in the same room as the TV in the house. The quest for quiet computing has been ongoing.

I currently have a Corsair H115i RGB Pro XT in top of a Core i9 10980XE. The CPU is overclocked from it’s standard 3 Ghz to 3.5 Ghz. When the iCue software is set to Quiet, the regular operating temperature is 32C. Under a stress test like AIDA 64 Stability I can peak the CPU temperature at 72C. Even then the fan noise is no more than a refrigerator. My dB meter shows about 46 dB when under 100% load. No howling banshee here! The iCue software also allows me to turn off all the silly lighting effects, thank goodness.

I am firmly convinced to the value of water cooling. When the time comes for my next build, I will use the same solution.

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TechTango, Will Fastie

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I don’t want to start a flame war on this topic, but the a well designed air cooled system works just as well as one that is water cooled (there are lots of published comparisons on this topic).  You also don’t have to worry about pump failures which can happen.  There are large heat sinks as well as near silent case fans that work in concert.  Perhaps the best source on all things cooling is HERE.

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teuhasn2, Will Fastie

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agoldhammer wrote:

I don’t want to start a flame war on this topic

Good. No flame wars. We’re talking about cooling here.

agoldhammer wrote:

well designed air cooled system works just as well

What are your thoughts about noise levels? As you may know, I used an air cooler when I built Opal and it seems extremely quiet.

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TechTango, WSDKS01

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Will Fastie wrote:

What are your thoughts about noise levels? As you may know, I used an air cooler when I built Opal and it seems extremely quiet.

I can only comment on my own system which is used for photography editing, financial analysis and some computer programming as the most intensive applications.  I built my own system to be as quiet as possible as it sits right on my desk next to the monitor (it’s less than 12 inches from me).  It’s house in a Fractal Design R5 case and I swapped the fans that came with the case for Noctua fans and have a Noctua NH U12S CPU cooler.  It is stone cold quiet and even when I’m doing some complex calculations, the fan noise is barely audible.

I don’t game so their use case “might” be different.

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teuhasn2, Will Fastie, WSDKS01

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It’s house in a Fractal Design R5 case and I swapped the fans that came with the case for Noctua fans and have a Noctua NH U12S CPU cooler. It is stone cold quiet and even when I’m doing some complex calculations, the fan noise is barely audible.

You are on to something here. Size matters. I have two computers, one a mid-tower and the one I described, a full tower. The mid-tower is far noisier than the full tower (both are water cooled) but the larger case allows more air to be exchanged. Fans also matter. I replaced all the stock Corsair fans in both cases with Noctura fans and noticed a significant drop in the noise level. The quest for quiet is an ongoing project and often through trial and error.

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Recently, I have built a system with an i5 13600KF CPU and this was my first time installing a water cooler rather than an air cooler.

The original plan was to install an air cooler, mostly because I did not wish to worry about pump failures or damage to tubing (i.e. my old-fashioned concern about having any kind of liquid in close proximity to electronic components). The K/KF Raptor Lake CPUs have quite high TDP values, meaning that to provide substantial cooling (with enough room to potentially also attempt overclocking) I was looking to install an air cooler with one of those very large heat sinks, such as the be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 or the Noctua NH-D15. Neither of these two coolers was readily available however and, while they will cool a CPU just as well as a liquid cooler, they are really massive things to have in your case (not to mention they have some pretty considerable weights, i.e. more that 1 kg with fans mounted).

In the end, I decided to take a “calculated risk” and went for an AIO liquid cooler from Asus (ROG Strix LC II 240): it keeps my CPU cool without being so massive and heavy as the above mentioned air coolers, CPU temperature sits at 30-31°C under normal operation and so far I have not seen it go above 70°C under stress. It is also very quiet (inaudible quiet) most of the time when fans are not at their maximum speed, but it gets comparatively noisy when the fans go up to maximum speed (this happened only a couple of times when rendering complex scenes with Blended Cycles). I still hadn’t enough time to play more with the control software, so it is possible there is some setting for a “quieter” operation. BTW, I installed the version of the ROG Strix LC II 240 which comes with RGB lighting only on the waterblock, because I’m no fan of RGB lights: the lighting is actually unobtrusive if set to some static, soft color and in any case it can be turned off through the Asus software.

Let’s see if the 6 years warranty on this cooler will prove that liquid coolers are now as much reliable as air coolers in terms of durability/lifespans of their components.

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Recently, I have built a system with an i5 13600KF CPU

If you’re up for it, would enjoy knowing the full specs (all chosen components) of your system.  It sounds great.

Desktop Asus TUF X299 Mark 1, CPU: Intel Core i7-7820X Skylake-X 8-Core 3.6 GHz, RAM: 32GB, GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050 Ti 4GB. Display: Four 27" 1080p screens 2 over 2 quad.

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Sure, why not? 🙂 Unfortunately, it seems I can’t send PMs, so I’m posting the specs below (apologies if this is a bit OT).

CPU: Intel Core i5-13600KF
Mainboard: MSI PRO Z790-P WIFI
RAM: Corsair DDR5 VENGEANCE 32GB (2x16GB) 5600MHz CL36 (CMK32GX5M2B5600C36)
CPU cooler: Asus ROG Strix LC II 240 AIO Liquid CPU Cooler
PSU: Asus ROG Strix 850G 850W
SSD: Corsair Force MP600 PRO NH NVMe SSD, PCIe 4.0, 1 Tb
Gfx card: MSI GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Ventus 3X OC
Case: Lian Li LANCOOL 205 Mesh C

I also installed a Crucial MX500 2 Tb SATA SSD I already had in my previous PC. BTW, I had originally planned to buy the equivalent model of the above case without RGB fans, but it was not available when I placed my order and I did not want to wait for it to become available again. The RBG lights can be switched off if one does not like them and the Mesh C model actually has better airflow, thanks to the front mesh panel and two fans sucking in fresh air.

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TechTango

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Hey Y’all,

I just watched this LTT video yesterday, must have been fate? Definitely worth the watch.

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Steve S.

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Just about 2 months ago, I decided to build a “spare” desktop computer using extra components I had. My main desktop is AIO water cooled and it runs quietly when not gameing but still gets noisy when I game (GPU and case fans!). I needed to get a CPU cooler and chose to bypass potential maintenance and leaking risk of water cooled.  I came across a very high rated air cooler – the Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 CPU Cooler. It’s quite inexpensive and gets many high ratings from LTT and others. Does the job so far, though I may replace the fans with quieter Noctua fans in the future if I ever use it for gaming. It actually performs on par with many water coolers.

Win10 Pro x64 22H2, Win10 Home 22H2, Linux Mint + a cat with 'tortitude'.

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TechTango

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WHAT!!!  Now I have to go to school to become a plumber, too? 

The combination of cool running temperatures, noise and system reliability are important considerations.

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Since we’re talking cooling, here’s a question I’ve been wondering about: When it comes to case fans, there are three ways that the fans’ airflow could be arranged (for the sake of simplicity, let’s say there are just two fans):

1. Both fans blowing into the case
2. Both fans blowing out of the case
3. One fan blowing into the case with the other fan blowing out of the case

Which case fan arrangement cools best, or does it not really make all that much difference?

 

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1. First make sure you have filters that are easily removable/cleanable or replaceable on the intake fans.

2. 2 or 3 fans blowing IN – this assures positive case pressure and every unknown hole or opening will be blowing OUT and not allowing dust to get in.

3. with liquid cooling you need to blow OUT since the air will be somewhat warmed, but, to me, that means I would also want a (probably front bank of) 3 fans blowing IN, filtered, of course. Dust will essentially electroplate itself onto the mobo and you don’t want that!!!

based on at least 6 built boxes of experience – and realize that a built box is a thing in process. It’s NEVER done! 🙂 As always, have FUN with your builds!!!

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wavy, Cybertooth

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a wrote:

1. First make sure you have filters that are easily removable/cleanable or replaceable on the intake fans.

Yes and make sure there is positive air pressure in the case, i.e. there is more air being sucked into the case than is being blown out. This assures the little spaces around the case that are NOT filtered are not an entrance point for unfiltered air.
Having fan speed controlled by sensors will complicate this. Big fans and filters for the intakes that can do there job at low speed are a plus.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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CT,

1. Definitely NOT!

2. Depends on the amount of passive cooling vents in the case but probably not.

3. Yes you’ll get the best air flow this way which is what you want. Best oriented so you bring in cool air at the bottom and exhaust hot air at the top.

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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teuhasn2, Cybertooth

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3. Yes you’ll get the best air flow this way which is what you want. Best oriented so you bring in cool air at the bottom and exhaust hot air at the top.

My desktop machine is in a Coolermaster HAF case with two fans in front blowing in, one in the rear blowing out through the liquid cooling radiator, one in the top blowing up venting heat from my graphics card.  Works like a dream.

Desktop Asus TUF X299 Mark 1, CPU: Intel Core i7-7820X Skylake-X 8-Core 3.6 GHz, RAM: 32GB, GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050 Ti 4GB. Display: Four 27" 1080p screens 2 over 2 quad.

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Cybertooth

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I am pro this  – my last box (I am doing laptops at the moment) was liquid cooled and I preferred it to the previous ones I built that were air cooled. YMMV but that’s my choice!

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a wrote:

I preferred it

I remember sitting at my daddy’s knee while he told me the facts of life — that water and electricity do not mix.

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geekdom

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I remember sitting at my daddy’s knee while he told me the facts of life — that water and electricity do not mix.

Glad to see I’m not the only one still having some concerns about placing any kind of liquid in close proximity to electronic components… 😀 Still, I felt the development of liquid coolers has made considerable progress by now that it was worth taking the calculated risk of giving one of these a try in my latest build. Plus, I was not so keen on having a giant Noctua or be quiet! air cooler taking up half of the room inside my case.

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Cybertooth wrote:

Which case fan arrangement cools best, or does it not really make all that much difference?

HERE is the best resource on air cooling, fan selection and placement.

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Norio, Cybertooth

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Gamers Nexus has a lot of info on this topic. Their general view is air cooling is generally equivalent / better (with a good cooler, very little noise), and the main reason, easy to maintain / replace parts.

Water cooling comes more in handy when you have a compact build where you can’t fit a giant noctua cooler or whatever.

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Water cooling is old tech to cool pc. A few tech savvy people have move to nitro cooling over a decade ago. There is more risk with it but if you want your PC as quite as you can, this is the best option. Plus using nitro needs a person with common sense to not freeze your body parts off or freeze the computer parts beyond it’s limit.

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I  have only experienced liquid cooling with one desktop purchased some 13 years ago, and in which the liquid cooler blew – fortunately just a few weeks before the warranty expired.

The computer wasn’t even on when the liquid cooler blew, I had been using it but had turned it off although it was still powered on at the wall socket. I was sitting at my other machine adjoining it when I heard a massive bang and a horrid brown mess started advancing across my computer desk from under the offending machine.

It destroyed the motherboard, CPU and memory chips, all of which were replaced under the warranty along with the cooler which was replaced with an air cooler. I suspect it was also instrumental in the failure of the graphics card only a short time later. I’ve had no problems with the air cooler since then, and only the graphics card has needed further replacing/upgrading in that time.  I shan’t be using liquid coolers again!

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Seff wrote:

I shan’t be using liquid coolers again!

In all fairness, I think liquid cooling has advanced quite a bit in the last decade, fueled by the desire for overclocking. Still, I’m probably in your camp.

But I can definitely see it happening in data centers due to scale, especially if fully immersible solutions save the amount of energy Brian’s article suggests.

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I’ve never been tempted by water cooling.  In my experience, case fans are just background noise, and not at all unpleasant.  As for cooling, I have fairly aggressive temp/fan curves set in my UEFI, and for my daily driver, temps stay between ~40° – 44° C for CPU and motherboard, SSD’s are similar.

I have 2 filtered intake fans, one exhaust fan, and a CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO CPU fan.  I tape off all the vent holes except for the top of the case, which isn’t filtered but covered with a fine mesh screen.  The case is positive pressure.

My NAS has a similar setup except for the CPU cooler, which is the stock Intel cooler, and the temps there are ~4° C cooler.  It has a single mSATA SSD and 4 spinners.  The case is positive pressure.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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the 212 was a fave of mine for years – possibly the best fan based cpu cooler out there, and inexpensive.

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There’s some useful info on water cooling in this thread.

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/high-cpu-temps/

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RetiredGeek wrote:

1. Definitely NOT!

Ok I will bite what is your take on that RG?

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Wavy,

Unless you have a perforated case with lots of vent holes in the upper part of the case you’ll be forcing the hot air to the top where it will be semi trapped.

IMHO you’re best served by causing air to flow through the case preferably bottom to top (cold air in at the bottom – hot air out at the top). This takes advantage of the natural flow of hot air going up and will help pull cold air in at the bottom. Take a look at Thomas Jefferson’s Home Monticello, it uses this principle to passively cool the entire house.

From the Wikipedia entry:

Summertime temperatures are high in the region, with indoor temperatures of around 100 °F (38 °C). Jefferson himself is known to have been interested in Roman and Renaissance texts about ancient temperature-control techniques such as ground-cooled air and heated floors.[10] Monticello’s large central hall and aligned windows were designed to allow a cooling air-current to pass through the house, and the octagonal cupola draws hot air up and out.

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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IMHO you’re best served by causing air to flow through the case preferably bottom to top (cold air in at the bottom – hot air out at the top).

I couldn’t agree with you more.  My daily driver custom desktop case is the Coolermaster HAF with full size fan in the top of the case pull air out.  However, it does not appear Coolermaster is making any of their cases with top fans now.

Desktop Asus TUF X299 Mark 1, CPU: Intel Core i7-7820X Skylake-X 8-Core 3.6 GHz, RAM: 32GB, GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050 Ti 4GB. Display: Four 27" 1080p screens 2 over 2 quad.

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WSDKS01

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TechTango wrote:

IMHO you’re best served by causing air to flow through the case preferably bottom to top (cold air in at the bottom – hot air out at the top).

I couldn’t agree with you more.  My daily driver custom desktop case is the Coolermaster HAF with full size fan in the top of the case pull air out.  However, it does not appear Coolermaster is making any of their cases with top fans now.

A quick look suggests Corsair cases in both mid and full tower form factors all have open top grills intended for the mounting of fans or AIO CPU cooling radiators. I have my CPU AIO unit mounted on the top of a full sized Corsair case. It is very, very quiet. My sound meter shows it runs at about 30 dBA.

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RetiredGeek wrote:

Unless you have a perforated case with lots of vent holes in the upper part of the case you’ll be forcing the hot air to the top where it will be semi trapped.

I tend to think that the turbulence inside the case would be enough to circumvent that problem. Of course the question did not stipulate where the fans were placed.
Having said that my setup does exhaust air at the top.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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RetiredGeek wrote:

Take a look at Thomas Jefferson’s Home Monticello, it uses this principle to passively cool the entire house.

Seems like we have forgotten a lot of the common knowledge of the past that still applies. Another instance the Rumford fireplace: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumford_fireplace

OK OK he was a Tory but the physics and utility still stand.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Any recommended actions for cooling the laptop?

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Zimbof wrote:

Any recommended actions for cooling the laptop?

If your laptop won’t stay cool, there are chiller pads that work like lapdesks that you can lay them on. Some have built-in fans that connect to your laptop’s USB port.

While I will disavow any knowledge of your actions should you not be of a technical bent, it is possible to re-apply the thermal interface material between a laptop CPU and its heatsink; this does usually dry up and cake after a few years, reducing its effectiveness. I use a dab of Noctua NH-T2; after disassembly, and removal of the heatsink, I clean the CPU and the heatsink with an alcohol wipe, then re-apply the TIM, then put the system back together.

One of my very new high-end laptops uses liquid metal thermal interface material (ThinkPad P1 Gen 5); so that one I’m not taking apart. That one also uses a vapor chamber cooler, as it’s a workstation-class laptop.

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We walk in the wiring closets no others will enter.
We stand on the bridge, and no malware may pass.
We engage in support, we do not retreat.
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I’ve built systems for nearly three decades now. I was always an air cooling person for the simple reason that air coolers don’t break. And until the past four years or so, air coolers can take almost anything you can throw at them, at least under normal operations.

At some point in the last four years, a number of processors could operate (under load) at a level that can use 180-250 watts of power. That’s significant heat to dissipate, and while high-end air cooling can handle it to a fair extent, the processor may throttle its speed back under load to keep within designed temperature range, especially if hot air cannot be expediently removed from the case and replaced with cooler intake air just as expediently.  Further, we have come to the point where liquid-cooling (water is a bit of a misnomer, as there could be some distilled water, but often ethylene glycol and possibly anticorrosive ingredients are used) may be purchased as an all-in-one product where one no longer has to build their own solution, fill it with coolant, bleed the air out, and then maintain it; many options are self-contained.  The prices of these self-contained systems have dropped too, bringing many of them between $80-150, which overlaps with high-end air coolers.

This is the first time I’ve used one of these all-in-one solutions in a new PC build, and I can say the difference in CPU temperature is noticeable, as the liquid keeps getting cycled through the radiator, and cooled by it and the fans that blow air through it. It also means that the air temperature in the case is lower than it would be with an air cooler, letting me use much of the air  cooling in a design that will keep the graphics card cooler. It probably won’t last a decade like some of the premium air cooling methods I’ve used from Noctua or Thermalright, but it does mean a significant difference in operating temperature, and also that I can choose to run the CPU a little warmer (but still cooler than with air) while running the fans at lower speed to quiet noise.

We are SysAdmins.
We walk in the wiring closets no others will enter.
We stand on the bridge, and no malware may pass.
We engage in support, we do not retreat.
We live for the LAN.
We die for the LAN.

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TechTango

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