Upgrading non-supported HW to Win 11

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Hey Y’all,

I was just discussing the pros and cons of updating non-supported HW to Win 11.

It came to me that if it’s true that Win 11 has better security than Win 10 it only makes sense to upgrade to 11, using the following logic.

If I don’t upgrade as of October 2025 I’ll be running an OS that no longer gets updates.

On the other hand, if I upgrade via RUFUS or other workarounds, and Microsoft decides to stop allowing non-supported hardware to update then I’ll also have an OS that no longer gets updates.

So if the premise that 11 is more secure than 10 it makes sense to upgrade to 11 as the worst case final outcome is a more secure system that doesn’t update.

What do y’all think?????

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Just a reminder that on my non supported older surface I have to manually upgrade it from feature release to feature release.  While it will get the normal monthly security updates, it does not automatically get the feature releases.

Then layer on – is the hardware good enough to become an 11.

You are also not offsetting the 10 by either

1. subscribing to opatch
2. subscribing to the consumer 1 year extended patches
3. if a business – getting the ESU

There are a lot more options as well as risks than you are laying out.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Susan,

Correct you are!

I was looking at it from a consumer vs business perspective.
I’d expect most consumers aren’t going to pay for security updates.
Of the machines I’ve update they all still get feature updates (YMMV) albeit no Surfaces.
If you’re running 10 you shouldn’t have much problem running 11 (YMMV).

Of course, each individual will have to consider their options and needs.
I was just attacking the problem from a purely philosophical perspective.

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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I think it depends on the hardware.  I don’t recommend running 11 on a system with less than 16 gigs of RAM.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Susan Bradley wrote:

I think it depends on the hardware.  I don’t recommend running 11 on a system with less than 16 gigs of RAM.

Well then, Susan, what do you suggest we do about the upcoming Windows 10 EOS with still working systems that (1) cannot be officially upgraded to Windows 11 and (2) have less than 16GB RAM?

Other than spending additional money or throwing them away, that is. No adding more RAM, for example. And please do not give any Microsoft’s official answers like “You should buy a new PC to run Windows 11”.

I would think that most people facing this matter would not want to spend additional money or throw the computers away if the computers are still working fine. Unless, that is, it is what they want anyway.

I would really like to hear your opinion on this matter.

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

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I know my opinion may be unpopular here. But why do we have to upgrade to Windows 11 if the only problem is the Windows 10 EOS (End of Support, mind you, not EOL aka End of Life)?

And why can’t we continue to run older operating systems past their EOS date? Are those people who insist on running for example Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 even now doomed, for example? How about those who insist on continuing to use their current incompatible (with Windows 11) systems to run Windows 10 past October?

Personally, I believe “security of the OS” is only one of things you need to consider. Even if you consider security to be the most important and overriding aspect (which I respectfully disagree), security of the internet browser is, IMHO, far more important for most people. If the browser they use is kept updated to fix security issues (and I believe we can assume the current browsers that run on Windows 10 will continue to be updated past October 2025 for at least 2-3 years if not longer), I don’t see any serious problems with continuing to run an “unsupported” OS past the EOS. I still run Firefox ESR 115.21.0 on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1, for example, and I have never had a problem with it.

My own thoughts, anyway. YMMV.

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

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In business you can’t without risks and cyber insurance issues.

In consumers, you have other options, including opatch, and extended security updates.

There is no blanket right answer for all.  You have to determine your risk level.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Well then, let’s be more specific.

Susan Bradley wrote:

In business you can’t without risks and cyber insurance issues.

I am not involved in a business, so this does not concern me. Nor do I care. I am just a semi-retired person.

Susan Bradley wrote:

In consumers, you have other options, including 0patch, and extended security updates.

Both of the options you mentioned may require consumers to part with more money, unless I am mistaken. I am not even sure if I can access them at my location even if I want to. I am not living in the USA after all.

Susan Bradley wrote:

There is no blanket right answer for all. You have to determine your risk level.

I have already done what I need to do regarding the Windows 10 EOS.

My father’s old retired friends have not. I expect some of them might come to my father for advice, and my father in turn will turn to me. I believe they will not want to part with more money if they can, and I am pretty sure they will not want to purchase a whole new PC just for this, and why should they, when their computers are still working fine? Some, if not most, of the computers are quite old, and may not be able to run Windows 11 even via an unsupported install.

I believe for them, any unnecessary expense is out of the question, including a PC replacement or paying for extended security updates.

So, do you have any suggestion about what I should tell them if and when they come to my father for advice?

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

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Opatch is free if you only want the zero day/high risk patches, or otherwise not that much for a peace of mind.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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What do they need to run on their PCs?  What do they need and use it for?

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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James Bond 007 wrote:

Personally, I believe “security of the OS” is only one of things you need to consider.

OS security is the number 1 to consider.

Window 7, 8.1 have 2-3% of install base. Coming October with hundred of millions of Windows 10 PCs that can’t upgrade to Windows 11 and won’t get security updates, hackers will get down on these PCs like vultures on a corpse.

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Alex5723 wrote:

OS security is the number 1 to consider.

Your opinion is noted. It is certainly not mine, however unpopular it is.

I strongly believe that with some common sense and sensible precautions one can certainly continue to use unsupported OS past their EOS, especially when you can still run a supported browser. Therefore, to me, OS security is neither the most important thing nor the only thing to consider when trying to determine what to do.

I have been running Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 (and their Server counterparts) since their EOS in January 2020 (five years ago) and January 2023 (two years ago) respectively, and I have yet to have a security issue. Not one after 5 years. I run Firefox ESR (still supported until September 2025) on both of them to browse the internet. That’s why statements like “You must run a supported OS or you are doomed”, or things like that, have not been able to convince me so far, based on my own experiences for the past 5 years.

Personally, I am continuing to run Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 when necessary, in conjunction with Windows 10 1809 LTSC and Windows Server 2019.

Perhaps we shall agree to disagree on this then, shall we?

Alex5723 wrote:

Coming October with hundred of millions of Windows 10 PCs that can’t upgrade to Windows 11 and won’t get security updates, hackers will get down on these PCs like vultures on a corpse.

Like it or not, it is clear unless Microsoft relaxes the hardware requirements for Windows 11 (and so far it has not shown any willingness to) there will be a large number of PCs that currently run Windows and cannot be upgraded, or won’t be upgraded, to Windows 11 come October.

So let’s see if that will really happen, past October.

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Cybertooth

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RetiredGeek wrote:

It came to me that if it’s true that Win 11 has better security than Win 10 it only makes sense to upgrade to 11,

The more secure Windows 11 depend on hardware (TPM, Secure boot modern CPUs…) which many of the unsupported Windows 10 lack. So upgrading to Windows 11 won’t add the better security..

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RetiredGeek wrote:

So if the premise that 11 is more secure than 10 it makes sense to upgrade to 11 as the worst case final outcome is a more secure system that doesn’t update.

What do y’all think?????

If you believe Windows 11 is more secure than Windows 10 (and it might well be), then I agree it is in your own interest to move to Windows 11 on your unsupported hardware, since apparently you consider security of the OS paramount.

But I don’t think your worst case is going to come to pass any time soon, the reason being that Microsoft itself provided ways to install Windows 11 on unsupported PCs until not so long ago, and I don’t believe it will suddenly decide to really cut off updates for those PCs now.

At worst, I believe Windows 11 installed on your unsupported PC should still be supported with security updates until October 2026, the end of support date for the consumer versions of the current Windows 11 24H2.

I am not sure about future versions of Windows 11 past 24H2 though. We will have to see if Microsoft will really clamp down and refuse to provide updates to all unsupported install of Windows 11 in the future.

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

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I’m going to run Linux distros on mine.  I will choose the distros depending on the individual pc hardware and intended uses.  Some distros are very similar to Windows, very customizable and not any harder to adjust to than going from Windows 10 to Windows 11.  I have about 15 systems to play around with.

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Elly

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RetiredGeek wrote:

So if the premise that 11 is more secure than 10 it makes sense to upgrade to 11 as the worst case final outcome is a more secure system that doesn’t update.

What do y’all think?????

I thought about those things as well. The way I look at it, if for some reason MSFT entirely blocks non-supported equipment for some reason, it is easy enough to go back to Windows 10 or buy new equipment. On the three unsupported machines I have, all 3 of them have TPM2.0 and all 3 of them have “Memory Integrity”, “Kernel-Mode Hardware enforced Stack Protection”, “Local Security Protection” and “Microsoft Vulnerable Driver Blocklist” enabled. They run the same as Windows 10 and with Start11, they look like Windows 7. They all get every Windows update. And if MSFT stops the updates, they offer them to be downloaded and installed manually.

I just can’t see throwing out perfectly good hardware, but if it has to be done, it is a new motherboard, new memory and a new CPU. Supported bundles are pretty cheap. I usually shop them locally at Microcenter. That’s where I bought my last upgrade, an I9-12900K bundle for $400. (Assuming you are willing and capable of DIY, but if not, I’m pretty sure they will do it for you.)

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speaking of Microcenter, they’re supposed to bring back or “re-open” a store in Santa Clara, California later in 2025. no exact date as to when that will actually happen

And if MSFT stops the updates, they offer them to be downloaded and installed manually.

highly unlikely, MS will actually do that as it may upset a lot of Win11 users.
the only updates that MS will not be offering to non-supported Win11 users are the big “feature updates”. the cumulative security and non-security preview updates will continue to be offered to Win11 users for both supported and non-supported hardware.

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EP wrote:

highly unlikely, MS will actually do that as it may upset a lot of Win11 users.
the only updates that MS will not be offering to non-supported Win11 users are the big “feature updates”. the cumulative security and non-security preview updates will continue to be offered to Win11 users for both supported and non-supported hardware.

I agree, but that is the message (or something like it) you get when you install it on an unsupported device.

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Pure FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt)

My “Canary” machine has TPM 2.0, a 7th Gen i7 (not-supported) but it includes the SSE4.2 instruction that is required. This machine runs just fine and you wouldn’t know it was a Gen 7 device, at least not for how I use my PC. I can see absolutely no reason for MS calling this machine non-supported. Of course, their escape clause is

Windows 11 - these requirements help ensure a more reliable and higher
quality experience. Installing Windows 11 on this PC is not recommended
and may result in compatibility issues.

Well “Canary” has 24H2 and has for months now and it shows none of these behaviors. As always YMMV!

Windows Stated Win 11 Requirements:

• Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster with 2 or more cores on a compatible 64-bit processor or System on a Chip (SoC). i7-7700 3.6Ghz 4 Cores 8 Threads HyperThreading Enabled
• RAM: 4 gigabytes (GB). 32GB DDR4 2133
• Storage: 64 GB or larger storage device. See More information on storage space to keep Windows 11 up-to-date for more details. Samsung SSD 960 EVO 250GB NVMe (Windows Only)
• System firmware: UEFI, Secure Boot capable. Check here for information on how your PC might be able to meet this requirement. Yes
• TPM: Trusted Platform Module (TPM) version 2.0. Check here for instructions on how your PC might be enabled to meet this requirement. Yes
• Graphics card: Compatible with DirectX 12 or later with WDDM 2.0 driver. GeForce 1050 Ti
• Display: High definition (720p) display that is greater than 9” diagonally, 8 bits per color channel. Dual Samsung 1080p 27″ displays.

Verified DirecX 12 with the following PowerShell Script:

# Create a temporary file for dxdiag output
$tempFile = [System.IO.Path]::GetTempFileName()

# Run dxdiag and output the results to the temporary file
Start-Process -FilePath "dxdiag.exe" -ArgumentList "/t $tempFile" -NoNewWindow -Wait

# Read the contents of the temporary file
$dxdiagOutput = Get-Content -Path $tempFile

# Remove the temporary file
Remove-Item -Path $tempFile

# Search for the DirectX version in the dxdiag output
$directXVersion = $dxdiagOutput | Select-String -Pattern "DirectX Version"

# Determine if the computer is running DirectX 12
if ($directXVersion -match "DirectX Version:\s+DirectX 12") {
    Write-Output "The computer is running DirectX 12."
} else {
    Write-Output "The computer is not running DirectX 12."
}
The computer is running DirectX 12.

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

2 users thanked author for this post.

satrow, Cybertooth

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RetiredGeek wrote:

Verified DirecX 12 with the following PowerShell Script:

Much simpler to run dxdiag.exe

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RetiredGeek

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It’s said that for years.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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There is good antivirus software available to Windows 10 users including:

• Avast Premium Security,
• AVG Internet Security,
• Avira Antivirus Pro,
• Bitdefender Internet Security,
• ESET Internet Security,
• F-Secure Internet Security,
• G Data Internet Security,
• McAfee Total Protection,
• Norton 360 Deluxe, and
• Sophos Home Premium.

Why not stay with Windows 10 after its “end of life” and install and run a good antivirus software package?

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Cybertooth

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James Bond 007 wrote:

So, do you have any suggestion about what I should tell them if and when they come to my father for advice?

Maybe they can consider the suggestions in my Windows 7 security thread. Many of them involve no additional expense, and most are equally applicable to Windows 10.

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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Kathy Stevens wrote:

Why not stay with Windows 10 after its “end of life” and install and run a good antivirus software package?

better yet, why not run a Windows 10 LTSC OS on non-compliant Win11 hardware?
only non-LTSC based Windows 10 editions go EOL on October 2025.
Windows 10 LTSB 2016 goes EOL on October 2026
Windows 10 LTSC 2019 goes EOL on January 2029
& Windows 10 IoT LTSC 2021 goes EOL on January 2032

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Long Term Servicing releases are only available through volume licensing customers not to individual users. They are meant for specific use cases such as critical devices that require little maintenance and long operational time.

--Joe

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@EP, out of curiosity: How would I, as a private individual, go about getting an LTSC license, and how much (ballpark estimate) would it cost me?

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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