Turmoil at Microsoft; implications for Windows users

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	WOODY’S WINDOWS Turmoil at Microsoft; implications for Windows users
	By Woody Leonhard Microsoft in general, and the Windows group in particular, have gone through enormous changes in the past year. All the key Windows 8 players are out. Most of us can only speculate on the reasons for the massive turnover, but one point remains clear: under new management, Windows is in for changes.

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The full text of this column is posted at windowssecrets.com/woodys-windows/turmoil-at-microsoft-implications-for-windows-users/ (paid content, opens in a new window/tab).

Columnists typically cannot reply to comments here, but do incorporate the best tips into future columns.[/td]

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Thanks Woody for a comprehensive overview of the Microsoft hierarchy whose names, for the most part, meant nothing to me.

Personally I like the operating speed that the Windows 8 family has given me, I intensely dislike ‘Metro’ and have reverted to the familiar ‘desktop’ using one of the many ‘converters’, thank you Microsoft for leaving that element of code into the 8/8.1 background.

I look forward to a Win 7 replacement that maintains the speed of the 8’s with the comfort of the ‘desktop’ and improves dramatically the voice input/output element using an improved version of Speech (Nuance Dragon) and Reading (NaturalReader) thus contributing further towards output for the professionals and ease of use for the older client like myself.

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I have thought for a long time that Windows 8 would be the modern equivalent of DOS 4. For those too young to remember it, MS-DOS 4 was released in the early ’90s to almost universal puzzlement and disinterest in upgrading from DOS 3.5 which was a good and stable version. Matters got so bad that the much improved DOS 5 appearred after only a short gap. Sound familiar?

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Why are MS so confused? All this chopping and changing does them no good whatsoever in the long run.
And shuffling people from a position they excel in to one they don’t is just plain daft.

Windows : 7 was/is great, it just lacked a Touch overlay which should have been just a large add-on to the standard OS, but instead they decided to release a whole ‘new’ Windows 8, and cocked up the fact that millions of users need just keyboard and mouse, not touch. The reasons are no doubt because MS see releasing a ‘New’ OS as a great advert for Windows, and hope to sell loads just on the “ITS NEW!” factor, which may appeal to new users, but in the present ‘Device-led’ market, that group is pretty small, and not a huge earner in itself as the traditional PC market shrinks.

Windows Versions : Windows, WindowsRT and Windows Phone are too many OS’s, MS need to slim down their product line, and make sure Apps and Programs run on all of them as much as possible. Having fewer OS’s would greatly simplify all that cross-coding. Surely WindowsRT and Windows Phone are aiming at all-too-similar devices?

Office : For too long MS have held the view “If you want to use Office, you must have a Windows PC”, which in the days before ‘Devices’ was probably a justifiable limitation. But for a few years now people have had to use alternative Office products to do work on their new devices if they were not near a PC. As Office is a good earner in itself, MS should have released Office versions for iOS and Android long ago, and made more of the sales, but also to keep people using its core Office product, and not wander off to the Office alternatives. Keeping people in the fold applies to Windows and Office separately in my view, as they are two completely different products, which just happen to come from the same company.

IE : As most people realise, a Browser is just a Browser, there is no huge divide between them, they all do pretty much the same thing. It is not worth the effort at MS to waste money on adverts for its new “Amazing!” Browser, or even develop it, as it is free, and included with Windows, it is just a small add-on. I know people use their Browsers a lot and can form an attachment to them, but a web page is still just a web page, whatever browser you use.

Sync and Exchange :
Office in its plain form does not sync with other systems. You can import and export some stuff, but this is not Sync, where you set-and-forget and it just does it in the background. MS want to keep too much exclusive control to themselves, but these days people need more co-operation between their disparate devices, and Office does not cooperate.
As a Home user who is an Admin through necessity not desire, I have no wish to delve into Exchange just to get some kind of Sync working. I waste enough life time already with Backups, clean-ups and general file-tidying, so Exchange is not an option for me when a simple Sync would do.

So to sum up, MS should :

Release Office – the full-fat version – for iOS and Android. Users will find the bits of menus they need, no matter what the screen size is. And it is a good solid earner independent of any OS sales.

Stop releasing a ‘New and Amazing’ Windows every 2 years, and just concentrate on improvements and bug fixes.
People really don’t care what the version number is, they just want to get on with using an OS.

Incorporate a simple Sync that cooperates with other systems, independent of Exchange.

Stop pretending IE is Really Important. It’s not.

And get rid of either WindowsRT or Windows Phone, or integrate them into one OS? Too many programmers doing similar things to each other, instead of working together.

Phew!

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Nicely said!

In the meantime, I can’t buy a viable Win 7 laptop – thanks Microsoft!

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Nicely said!

In the meantime, I can’t buy a viable Win 7 laptop – thanks Microsoft!

You can get almost-new Windows 7 laptops at walmart.com. If there’s anything wrong with what you buy, you can return it to your local Wal Mart.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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I enjoyed your article. It’s interesting to know that MS is begining to get a clue. I am down to my last two Windows machines. Perhaps I’ll look at MS again after Windows 9 is released.

Having tried Windows 8 for about a year, I am switching to Linux. (I was unsuccessful in updating to 8.1 and there is NO tech support for it.)

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I enjoyed your article. It’s interesting to know that MS is begining to get a clue. I am down to my last two Windows machines. Perhaps I’ll look at MS again after Windows 9 is released.

Having tried Windows 8 for about a year, I am switching to Linux. (I was unsuccessful in updating to 8.1 and there is NO tech support for it.)

There’s support for updating to 8.1? What is your issues?

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There’s support for updating to 8.1? What is your issues?

Susan,

I am trying to answer your question but it will probably sound like a venting.

I would call the support for Windows 8.1 to be very lacking considering the huge change it was to the planet’s major OS.

After trying every suggestion on MS Support sites I could find, I was left with the choice of having to slick and reload my machine from scratch to get from 8.0 to 8.1. The generic notice that the upgrade failed with no error code or any real indication of the problem is a total failure on the part of an Operating System Company as mature as Microsoft. (Log file entries were pretty useless too.)

That I have to go to thier stupid store to upgrade it is another issue. Shame on them for treating their customers this way.

I could have slicked and reloaded 8.1 fom scratch. But, I had enough.

I have been fixing computers since 1975. (My first was an IBM 360 with a four Pi Program.) I am currently working in IT and support Windows Server 2008, R2, Win 7, Win 8 and can still remember how to load and un-splat Windows 3.X on laptops. (Not that it’s any use anymore.)

My real issue is that a mature company such as MS would treat their client base with such distain. They foolishly think that their customers will suck it up and take it. Their response to early complaints was take it or leave it. So, I simply am leaving it. I’ve had enough.

Shame on them. They did well on XP and Windows 7. Do they think they can continue to poke their customers in the eye with a stick and get away with it? Instead of quality products, we get garbage. (Again, my opinion.)

I expect to be able to upgrade without slicking my system.
I expect to get error codes I can research or give to a MS support Tech and get real answers.
I expect to not have to go to a Windows Store to get upgrades.

When people start chiming in on this, remember that you asked. I am not in love with Linux. I am not trying to promote it.

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Thanks Woody for a great article on the turmoil at Microsoft. As a long time Microsoft user (back to the MS-DOS 3 days) I was extremely disappointed in Windows 8. My wife purchased a new laptop last year and I have spent hours tweaking it trying to get Windows 8 to act like Windows 7. For laptops without touch screens, Windows 8 is pretty useless. I recently updated my personal PC to Windows 7 and it is working fine for me. I have decided that should the next version of Windows be a continuation of Windows 8, I will switch to a Mac when the time comes to change hardware again. Your article gives me hope that the switch to Mac may not be necessary. Thanks again Woody for all that you do!

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Your article is most informative of the Microsoft turmoil, but I would like to comment on the acceptance, and more, the dismay of Windows 8/8.1.

I am a long time PC user and developer… starting when it was first introduced with DOS, through the various iterations of Windows. I also had a period of “Apple infusion”, when I ran networks and workstation support for a major corporation.

I avoided looking at Windows 8 at first, as I was quite happy with Win 7 and with all of the negative press, I did not want to participate in the first release of a new MS version, which I’ve always considered beta testing.

Microsoft made Win 8.1 Preview available for free, so I decided to do a dual install on my Win 7 PC. At first I found it cumbersome, but then I started to realize that the OS itself was fantastic… faster than any of the previous versions of Windows and a lot of useful features… BUT the default installation parameters were terrible. I have stepped back and observed the philosophy and overall intent of Windows 8. The folks at MS who wrote the OS did an excellent job, but the marketing group who decided how to roll it out should have been tarred and feathered. From you article, it appears that they through the baby out with the bathwater.

These marketers, with their goal to play catchup in the phone and tablet marketplace, shoved horrible full-screen apps at PC users. They convinced everyone that they needed a touch screen to make use of the new OS, so everyone would run out and buy new hardware. This was a disaster, and it backfired on them. What’s sad is if users knew a few things and made a few changes, I fully believe they would prefer Win 8 over the other versions.

As a result, I started showing others what could be done with their new Win 8 computers. I discovered that everyone who came to understand a few basic concepts agreed this was far better. (It’s just a shame that MS didn’t understand this). As a result of all of this investigation I wrote an article “How to Love Windows 8.1… without replacing it with Windows 7” and created a blog where I share this and other pertinent facts and discoveries.

As I am retired now, I don’t feel the need to go on a big campaign, but offer this blog and it’s information to anyone who wants to see what Win 8 can really accomplish… http://lentechnotes.blogspot.com
I suggest you specifically, take a look at the Pages listed on the right: “How to Love Windows 8.1…” and “Windows 8.1 Quickstart”

Thanks for listening, and comments and suggestions are appreciated.

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Mr. Leonhard, Your article gave me a good chuckle, as did the other modern haters below. While not perfect, Windows 8 serves as an introduction to a new interface to get users accustomed to the ever-increasing universe of touch devices… using MSFT of course. When I encounter a customer with a new computer it takes about 5 minutes before they understand the 2 computers in 1 concept and that they do not have to go to the modern side if they do not wish to. I show them how to go back and forth from the modern and traditional sides, explain the differences between a modern and a traditional app, and show them that if they do not see what function they are looking for on the modern side – to right-click – and presto new functions appear. I expect that MSFT could have allowed greater configuration available so users can modify to suit their own needs and desires, especially for people who do not like change.

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Mr. Leonhard, Your article gave me a good chuckle, as did the other modern haters below.

Is that what we are now called — haters?

It seems like the thing these days to call those with whom you disagree “haters”.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Thanks
for that factual post, Woody!

I’ve been an MS User
(and reader of your great columns),
since the days of DOS…so,
I’m also an experienced MS User.

My opinion?

The new MS team
might be brilliant and have the best intentions.

But in the last 10 years,
Microsoft has shown a lack of perception and respect
of what OS ***Users***
really need and want.

For example:
dropping approx. 750 million Users of Win XP (a perfectly functional OS),
“under the bus”.

(including the entire UK National Health System PCs,
and also a billion ATM machines…).

To those who say:
– “But…but…just buy new hardware and Win 8,
because XP is old and not secure anymore!….”

I say:
– “Well, then MAKE IT SECURE and modern
…don’t just drop a billion paying XP Users!”.

As mentioned in my previous comments,
our small company
has been preparing for a year now,
and moving to Linux Ubuntu and Mint, next April…

We have no time for MS politics and incompetence,
and “future” OSes from them.

As ***paying Users***,
we have completely lost our confidence
in Microsoft Corp.

No more time to wait
for MS to “get their house in order”.
There are better OS alternatives, now.

And that’s a fact and my opinion

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I knew Windows 8 had received adverse criticism when my 2yr-old Win 7 (touch-screen) AIO Dell was replaced under warranty last August. Yes, the new AIO touch-screen PC arrived with Win 8 (and no option for Win 7). A mature touch-typist, I had to wait until mid-August for Win 8.1, which needed even more third-party apps, and it is still short of some familiar features.

For six years I have been adding a .pdf document Community Association newsletter to the cloud (latterly to SkyDrive) and, owing to the hijacking by MS’s .pdf, now find that one of three pages will not appear. I now have to upload Word Documents for online reading (although .pdf downloads are still possible).

Woody has now given me hope that a Win 7-like OS will be available, albeit it a year’s time. Like Whisperer14 says above, I look forward to a Win 7 replacement that maintains the speed of the 8’s with the comfort of the ‘desktop’ ……. thus contributing further towards output for the professionals and ease of use for the older client like myself.

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The changes are to late for me! I have been enjoying computers for over 40 years up until the “Ribbon” and windows “8” and because I service computers as a hobby during my retirement, I had to purchase a “8” (UGH) I personally have a volume license for XP64 Pro and do not plan to upgrade any of my working systems. I agree with every word of your article. I have had to move several of my old (70+) clients to Ubuntu because the”8″ was way to confusing. If I still teach at a local community college and have access to all MS products at no charge, but have no interest in them because I took and intent dislike to the “Ribbon” Thank you for being a voice of sanity. If you really want the best of MS get XP64 (uses most of the same drivers as MS server 2003) BTW: MS sent two people to interview me several years ago, I suggested they go easy with the ICONs, my experience had been people work quicker from words and phrases, I think they should have saved the travel expenses.

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Thank you, Woody, for your insight. You are certainly fully qualified to speak on this subject! I have been plugging along on my old desktop, using XP Pro, for a number of years; quite happily, I might add. All the bugs were out (?) and all the security has been covered, so I saw no real reason to ‘upgrade.’

With the end (of XP) soon in sight, I started looking for an alternative. A laptop was my first requirement, in order to save energy. My old PC was a power-hungry monster, and noisy, too. Wanting to have the latest and greatest, I thought, Win 8 was the choice for an OS. I finally settled on a very nice ‘refurbished’ Asus K55N unit. Right away I had problems. It seemed to me to just be a lot of eye-candy and it certainly wasn’t any faster OR easier than my old AMD machine! Now, I’ve discovered that booting up IS a lot faster, and some of the slowness is because of DSL connection.

The first screen (Metro?) is a total waste for me. I am used to working off the Desktop, and all my work is now there. Who NEEDS Metro? I have removed almost all the crap-ware and setup the Data partition the way I like to work. Just this week I turned off the old noisy beast (my PC) and I’m using the laptop full time. WHAT a difference! I can actually HEAR things, now, like the front door bell! I fully expect to see a big drop in my power bill soon. I have my printer working, too.

Overall, I guess I’m about as happy as I can be. BUT! Since I made a quantum leap ahead in processor power I would have expected to see a HUGE improvement in power and speed, both from the hardware end AND from the software end. I’m sorry, but I’m just not seeing it! It has always seemed to me that when MS comes out with a NEW JIM-DANDY OS, the actual improvement, if any, is quite small. I missed (?) ME, Vista and Win 7, so I would have expected to see SOME improvement, but I don’t. I also go way back to DOS 2.5 or so, and I ‘tried’ Win 3.1, which I also didn’t like. DOS was a good, efficient and WORKING OS! I have tried, MANY times, to get Ubuntu working, with mixed results. Maybe it’s time to try again, one more time?

As a died-in-the-wool keyboardist, I will never be interested in a touch screen! I also don’t like virtual, on-screen keyboards! What I really would like is a NEW, UP TO DATE system that works as fast (or faster) as XP Pro, with ALL the bugs out, that is fully supported by MS, that doesn’t crash and just WORKS!! Yeah, that’s probably asking too much! Thinking about it makes me so mad I think I’ll go check out Ubuntu 64!

PC Bob

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Thank you, Woody, for your insight. You are certainly fully qualified to speak on this subject! I have been plugging along on my old desktop, using XP Pro, for a number of years; quite happily, I might add. All the bugs were out (?) and all the security has been covered, so I saw no real reason to ‘upgrade.’

With the end (of XP) soon in sight, I started looking for an alternative. A laptop was my first requirement, in order to save energy. My old PC was a power-hungry monster, and noisy, too. Wanting to have the latest and greatest, I thought, Win 8 was the choice for an OS. I finally settled on a very nice ‘refurbished’ Asus K55N unit. Right away I had problems. It seemed to me to just be a lot of eye-candy and it certainly wasn’t any faster OR easier than my old AMD machine! Now, I’ve discovered that booting up IS a lot faster, and some of the slowness is because of DSL connection.

The first screen (Metro?) is a total waste for me. I am used to working off the Desktop, and all my work is now there. Who NEEDS Metro? I have removed almost all the crap-ware and setup the Data partition the way I like to work. Just this week I turned off the old noisy beast (my PC) and I’m using the laptop full time. WHAT a difference! I can actually HEAR things, now, like the front door bell! I fully expect to see a big drop in my power bill soon. I have my printer working, too.

Overall, I guess I’m about as happy as I can be. BUT! Since I made a quantum leap ahead in processor power I would have expected to see a HUGE improvement in power and speed, both from the hardware end AND from the software end. I’m sorry, but I’m just not seeing it! It has always seemed to me that when MS comes out with a NEW JIM-DANDY OS, the actual improvement, if any, is quite small. I missed (?) ME, Vista and Win 7, so I would have expected to see SOME improvement, but I don’t. I also go way back to DOS 2.5 or so, and I ‘tried’ Win 3.1, which I also didn’t like. DOS was a good, efficient and WORKING OS! I have tried, MANY times, to get Ubuntu working, with mixed results. Maybe it’s time to try again, one more time?

As a died-in-the-wool keyboardist, I will never be interested in a touch screen! I also don’t like virtual, on-screen keyboards! What I really would like is a NEW, UP TO DATE system that works as fast (or faster) as XP Pro, with ALL the bugs out, that is fully supported by MS, that doesn’t crash and just WORKS!! Yeah, that’s probably asking too much! Thinking about it makes me so mad I think I’ll go check out Ubuntu 64!

PC Bob

If you’re still running Windows 8, why don’t you try one of the addons which will give you the Start Button / Start Menu and let you run in full desktop mode? You may in fact be very pleased with it, because Windows 8 is, in my experience, faster than previous versions of Windows. I would not recommend that you go to Windows 8.1.

I use StartIsBack as my addon. There are others. I am a died in the wool keyboardist, and I couldn’t be happier with Windows 8.0 and StartIsBack.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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I don’t make it a habit of posting, but this news provokes me to ad my voice.

Possibly, the single best piece of reporting I’ve viewed at WindowsSecrets … Congratulations. In a single read, I learned more about the MS org chart than I knew when I lived in Seattle.

Just to reinforce your perspective: I concur on several of your points — not only philosophically, but functionally…. For example, I did not purchase a W8 appliance. Instead I think W7 has been excellent and I’ve been concerned with keeping it going (which I’ve accomplished with passable results by continuously stripping out stuff that slows it down.)

As a prior owner, I recently re-invested in iMac for my home office desk top, and now live almost exclusively in the cloud (drinking Google Cool Aid.) My smartphone and tablet gear work seamlessly – I don’t carry a notebook out in the world any more. I remember many a walk on and off the Washington State Ferry with bag so heavy it gave me neck cramps. No longer.

I also no longer give much thought to the vagaries of updates, patches and wonky baloney. I haven’t booted my W7 deck in weeks because before shutting it down, I boosted all my files to my Buffalo NAS. I particularly enjoyed how quickly Apple responded to the security hole in their code this past week. I read the story in my news feed and hours later my phone was already updating.

The only thing I can think of that I might need to fire up the old notebook for — would be to burn a DVD.

Those characterizations aside, I am looking forward to what Microsoft will counter-punch with.

Personally, I believe that we see an example up in Everett — Boeing recent announcement of their “Black Phone” — as a possible direction. If MS would focus on my privacy and design from security first, I’ll be their customer.

Another area of fractured services I would suggest MS begin to “converge” is the home entertainment, security and infrastructure operations space (HVAC, Power, bla, bla, etc..) SMB consultants who aren’t focused on a footprint in this space will need to catch up — it’s what may follow Small Business Server, in my opinion.

Thanks Woody. Glad to read ya.

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This is quite possibly the best and most honest reporting on Microsoft from any source I have ever read and that includes the pieces from Mary Joe Foley who frequently provides inside looks at Microsoft.

I have to point out your comment about the Ribbon fiasco. I feel vindicated now for I am one of many who frequently had to listen to (or read about) negative replies to any and all comments made about the Ribbon that were negative in any way. From the first day I saw the Ribbon I called it a fiasco. Jump ahead to several years later and the Ribbon is now being accurately labeled a fiasco. The problem with the Ribbon is just like the problem with Windows 8. Its not that the interface is bad but that the attitude behind forcing it on existing users regardless of whether they want it or not simply because Microsoft knows better (then we the user) what the user needs. That level of arrogance is hard to beat.

Thanks Woody!

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Hi Woody,
Thanks for a great, insightful article! For a long time I had the impression you didn’t mind Windows 8 too much but am glad to see that you firmly have stated now that you are not a fan of 8. If by “infamous ribbon” you mean that menu they use for Office 2007 and beyond — I hate it, bought Office 2007 and installed it, tried and tried to like it and gave up and reinstalled Office 2003 which is what I still use today, on Windows 7. I loved xp and had a hard time starting with Windows 7 but found ways to make it work more like XP and have been very happy with 7 ever since. I have my own copy of 7, so if I have to get another computer, I will remove 8 and install my own 7. Thank heavens I bought it. I use Outlook Express (Vista’s Windows Mail) on Windows 7 and it works perfectly. I will attempt to install it on any new version of Windows they come up with. That Windows Live Mail stunk and I will never use webmail. If forced, I will switch to a Mac and use Apple Mail, but I don’t really want to. I am hoping that Office will return to the menu bars we used in 2003. I no longer care what they do with IE because I moved to Chrome and Firefox years ago.

I appreciate your describing the three possible versions of Windows… Enterprise would be the one for me. I like tablets, like touch screens, but on my computer, I want keyboard and mouse. I wish MS would give up on phones and tablets and stick to satisfying the business users (including small at-home businesses), and those non-business users who where happy with Windows before MS went off on a crazed hunt for market share in tablets and phones.

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Woody, I totally agree with the impression of win8. Win7 and 2008 R2 were Microsoft’s best combination, win8 I will not go to and 2012… What possessed someone to build a server with a tablet GUI?? Most people I know, like me, had to go out and download a “start button” to even get around in it…

Keep up the good work!

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Thanks for the update (and heads up) Woody. I’ve been a Windows user since Version 1, and building my own PCs since the days of the 286-12. I’ve used each new version in term, but as time goes on, more and more reluctantly. I liked Win2000 Pro a lot, and used that until XP came along. XP is arguably the best version to date when you consider all the aspects of use. Sure, it has its problems, but I have felt, and still feel, that if they had put the resources into fixing those problems instead of simply adding new bells and whistles and fancy interfaces and calling it a new version, we’d all be better off. There’s a big reason why XP SP3 is the most widely used version of Windows ever, and that hasn’t changed with the advent of Win7, and certainly not Win8.?

I’m not one of the social gadflys running around tweeting, twittering, facebooking, or sticking my head in the clouds. I refuse to use any of that junk. Anybody notice what happened when the recent storms shut down a bunch of server farms back East? All that cloud data was suddenly unavailable (which I thought was pretty funny). I hate all the touchy feely junk they’ve hung on Windows in 7 and 8, and while I have an Android smartphone I’d kill off 90% of the apps it came with if I could (and it won’t let me do). So, if they really do come out with an Enterprise version geared toward power users and old hands like me, I’m all for it. My mother is still using WinXP, so I will have to decide whether to nurse it along until the Enterprise version comes along, or upgrade her to Win7. Not looking forward to the learning curve on doing that! She’s 84.

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First I can’t find premise for taking several sets of Windows (for the new windows releases) based on whether or not they are touch controled,or mouse controled. Windows has always had adaquate software,to accomadate whatever hardware was available. Wireless,Touch,Mouse,Keyboard etc are pretty basic necesities for a new operating system.

As with the present situation and Windows 8. I had commented at the Microsoft Windows 8 website pretty much the same thing concerning the usability of the Windows 8 in regards to ‘new users’. The frustration with being drawn ‘off local’,way too soon to tell exactly what pertains the user on the local computer- and how to use it. Then even with this the basic front face of the operating system should be control,and control of the local resources rather than distant off-local programming inherent in the present priority of Windows 8.

True the combination of a HTML based software,and the usability and familiarity,and power of using the features of Microsofts apps off-local are as well readily apharent,when combined to the overall themes of interoperabity (Cell phone,Tablet,PC- xbox etc.) . Off-local storage ect. There is a certain strength to all of that. But with the power of the latest proccessing equipment,and its vocation of software,Windows 8 isn’t showing it. The desire to perhaps compete with the (and I say ..hmmff IMHO) Apple,Apple phone,Apple tv ,Apple cell etc,does not mean exact distancing from the strenghts that make the PC what it is – very personal. Again the ‘network-as-a-computer (e.g. sun,linyx) has its place too. And still from the user focus its got to be something that is controlable,and recognized.

The rigidity i see for the Windows 8 interface really shows nothing of the present day computing power available. Customization features is the norm from any Microsoft product I’ve seen in the past. Multitasking,as well within the apps,interoperability between them. Production,and content at the local users behest. The interface is basically 2D,the colors are far from a 3 color rule,and are intrensically cold.

Just in recent days,there have been a lot of different embedded solutions that are going to ask the PC for another invocation. Being as persistent as Android,is to plotting onto the embedded solutions. Then the type of manufacturing for these other devices that just ask you to take them on as familiar. And with the most of them,they have been closed off from benchmarking. Or notice of review in terms of interoperability,integration,and with regards of usability and practiced personal,and group security. Or just plain comparison .

There is a lot of power in these new hardware solutions. I can’t see what being less than sufficient to the basis for many programs Microsoft has that required it. Then now we need the solutions,on the PCs for them. Then again,I can’t see that bandwidth is an infinite resource. Those catering to larger resolutions,and greater necesity for bandwidth,cannot leave what most have for choice between two proprietors at their bandwidth.

Proprietors at their web sites need to consider their weight at their sites. As well as the orientation of ads put out for them. That resource is finite to the user who is paying for it. Then when perhaps left with no resources that cater to software that carries that quality over their resources of bandwidth. Trying to instill newer technology – sure. I just dont’ believe in that corner. Dont believe the corner on that curve is exactly that self reasurring.

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I don’t always disagree with Woody, but my feelings about Windows 8 are definitely different. First, I hated Windows 8 for about 3 weeks. About that time I started discovering that certain features actually improved my productivity in Windows. Classic Shell added a few things I “needed”, and I created my own shutdown and restart icons so they weren’t so buried and functioned like I wanted them. Windows 8.1 corrected most of what I found wrong with Windows 8. They brought back the start button. I honestly love the start screen which makes accessing my everyday programs so much quicker. I can now boot straight to desktop where I do all my work. The one thing that seems broken in Windows 8.1 is search. Searching from the start screen worked great in Windows 8. In 8.1 it doesn’t find everything. But I can find it from File Explorer so that’s a tolerable issue. I even found a setting in the power control panel to make shutdown work right.

So I now like Windows 8.1 BETTER than Windows 7. I know I’m not in the majority. But I do like it. I don’t run many “modern” apps. I’m hoping the possibility that those might actually run in windows on the desktop soon is real. IMO, that would be better for us desktop users. I just hope the next Windows is as good as Windows 8.1, and not another “Vista”.

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PS Woody, I tried to give you a “thank you” but after I clicked Thanks, it said it was thanking Kathleen Atkins. I am thanking YOU, Woody! Please fix that thank you thing so that thanks are going to you and not her for your article on Turmoil (which was GREAT).

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PS Woody, I tried to give you a “thank you” but after I clicked Thanks, it said it was thanking Kathleen Atkins. I am thanking YOU, Woody! Please fix that thank you thing so that thanks are going to you and not her for your article on Turmoil (which was GREAT).

Kathleen posted the article in the Lounge; that’s why she got the thanks.

To send thanks to Woody, you’ll need to contact him as listed at the end of the original article.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Well, I am not a ‘Guru’ like Woody, just a daily user since ‘89 MS Works (which, contrary to the latter detractors, did ‘work’ – far better than IBM Selectric I was stuck with since coming out of the diapers – eh – university). But, IMHO, the Softies have been stuck in a very basic mistake ever since: ‘we don’t care what anyone thinks, we know what we are doing and the users better lump it’! Right, it only took a couple of decades, and we all know the outcome. Contrary to Woodie’s opinion, there is not a glimmer of any change of this attitude, thus there is not a glimmer of any possible change of the eventual outcome.

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Hey Woody,

I hated Windows 7 but I love Windows 8. Go figure. Of course, my opinions are rarely in step with the masses.

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Hey Woody,

I hated Windows 7 but I love Windows 8. Go figure. Of course, my opinions are rarely in step with the masses.

Your opinion is appreciated.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Woody,
I have followed you for years and admire your work. But I can’t agree with your assessment of Windows 8. YES, the Metro interface isn’t the greatest thing for desktop users, and it was stupid to make it the default. But that’s it. Once you fix that, it’s a fine OS. It’s like the unreasonable shopper on House Hunters, saying they don’t like a certain house because the bedroom is yellow!
Windows 8 has been a disaster because of the tendency of people to only read headlines. And the headlines for Windows 8 have been bad. Shame shame on the editors.

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I fear that anything MS does will be too little, too late for much of their client base. Last summer I helped Mom & Dad purchase new computers with Win 7 to make sure they weren’t going to get stuck with a Win 8 OS. No way was I going to subject my 79 year old mother to Win 8. She would not be able to adjust to and learn it, and I don’t want to spend hours customizing, using 3rd parts programs to get it to behave like XP or Win 7. It was either purchase Win 7, or go to Apple. She likes her new Win 7 computer.

Last week at camera club, one of the members mentioned that they purchased an Apple. “I didn’t want to get caught up in the Windows 8 thing…at least Apple is the same, it doesn’t change.” That’s the perception.

Turns out there are several others at club who have done the same thing. These are longtime windows users. Not sophisticated users, just plain folks who like what they know, and want a stable OS with a standard interface. Many will tell their frustrations with MS: first Millenium, then Vista, Now 8 so they are jumping ship. They are tired of abritrary changes for which they see no value.

I get the impression that for most, the change was reluctant. They are betting that Apple will keep it’s OS and interface constant. To them it’s more like Windows than Windows 8. And that’s enough motivation for them to learn a new OS, purchase and get used to new software, even though the hardware is more expensive than they have purchased before.

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Thank you Woody Leonhard for sharing your in-depth insights regarding the inner workings of MicroSoft shuffle.
Unfortunately, I am having a little bit of trouble (actually a lot of trouble) with portions of your write-up.
I am not disputing your personal disdain against Windows8 but some of your statements need further clarifications for peons like myself who apparently don’t know any better.

Reflecting on the Windows 8 disaster
As you probably know, I am not one of Windows 8’s biggest fans. And that opinion comes from long experience with the OS. I wrote a thousand-page book about Windows 8 and another thousand-page tome about Windows 8.1. I’ve used Win8 all day, every day, for almost two years.
Based on that experience, I can’t recommend Windows 8 to experienced Windows users — unless they’re springing for a new touch-capable tablet or they really want to try something quite different from classic Windows. In truth, the vast majority of mouse-and-keyboard Windows users I know are still better served with Windows 7.

No! I don’t know! But I really would like to know these reasons >> where are they specified? I know that being the best horse in the glue factory is no grand prize but I hope that your disdain is vis-a-vis other competing operating system (Mac/Linux/etc.) that allow some respect (and compatibility) for legacy sw/hw and don’t require the need for spending a bank account (in new hw/sw) with each new iteration of the OS, while still staying current with the technology.
I am not going to take it as an insult as I must be one of those inexperienced users in your eyes.
Bragging rights about writing books on Windows8 aside; what I am hearing you say is that “they don’t make them like they used to” and I am having big difficulties swallowing the reasons (or lack thereof). I have been able to beat (customize) Win8 into submission and I have no issues having it do things my way and with speed, efficiency and lack of crashes when compared with all previous versions of WinOS.
Would you care to elaborate?

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No! I don’t know! But I really would like to know these reasons >>

Just dig a little deeper into articles Woody has written previous, a couple of which I believe were presented as part of this forum. I remember one I read about March of last year, right about when I abandoned Win 8 after about 4 and a half months of misery with Jekyll and Hyde…Woody’s a better man than me!

At this point however, the reasons don’t really matter anymore, assign what you will, the fact will remain Win 8 is a near colossal failure. It’s difficult to hide the lack of sales and marketshare. In fact I’m wondering now if the Windows 7 entrenchment is going to be even greater and harder to crack than XP has been. It’s going to take something really special for folks to upgrade from the new “perfectly good OS.”

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A ‘colossal failure” don’t sell 200Million copies! ( Even if only 59 million may be being used)
But if you repeat anything on the web five or more times it supposed to become a fact!
So, if you state your opinions like facts three more times, those who purchase freshly painted bridges on e-bay may actually believe you!

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Hint for those who are frustrated with Windows 8. You should check out Classic Shell ( http://www.classicshell.net/‎ ). It will turn Windows 8 or 8.1 to look like Windows 7, or XP, and you won’t have to put up with the Microsoft Windows 8 user interface unless you want to. You can switch between the two with one keystroke.

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Way to Go Woody!! Make it to San Diego and there’s a cold beer and excellent single malt Irish whiskey with your name on it!

Kevin

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Yes of course, to you and me, that’s an over the moon raging success, retire early. However for Microsoft it is nothing of the sort, the last time I looked mobile browser share for Microsoft was infinitesimal compared to the other big two and actually shrinking a tiny bit (while the others were growing fast). Paul Thurrott was a big supporter of Win 8 when it first came out, still thinks it is better as an OS under the hood and far from Metro Start but has readily admitted now on Windows Weekly that Win 8 is nothing short of a disaster when you look at the numbers, similar to Vista but not for the same reasons.

Also the article this thread is based on…one does not shake up the structure of management much, if any, if they hit a homerun or at least double and knock some runs in. I only care insofar as my personal need for something more fitting to my uses in the future and Win 8’s failure would seem to give hope for that future because eventually XP is going to lose too much 3rd party support to be tenable. I haven’t used W8 for nearly a year now so I don’t support it’s current state one way or the other and I certainly don’t depend on anyone who doesn’t follow Microsoft closely, and who can be trusted for a fairly non-biased view and examination of the facts.

If Win 8 is working as well for you as XP is for me; it’s not like someone is going to take it away from you or anything, enjoy it for what it is to you.

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I am finding the responses here very illustrating!

Lots of people coming out with statements along the lines of “I love XP”, “I hate W8” etc.

I’m just wondering if people who use OSX or iOS have the same feelings about ‘versions’, or do they just get on and USE their OS?

This seems to be the problem with MS’s OS strategy – it’s completely fractured, and divisive – and simply alienates their domestic customer base, leading to people moving to other platforms.

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Its the EYEBALLS!
With every new version of Windows – 2000, XP, 7 and now 8, Microsoft has taken great steps to “brand” each version. And with each of these brandings, icons got rounder and softer, and colors became more pastel and lighter. MY EYES CAN’T TAKE IT. I am 73 now and still like small icons on the desktop, but it is becoming really hard to find them and/or recognize them. Thus I am less productive.

No doubt that Windows 8 is faster and more secure. But why not allow me to select the UI that is most productive for me. Let me have Windows 8.+ with the Windows 7 UI. Or even let me go back to the Windows 2000 UI if that works best for me.

On a side note, the same thing goes for Office. I hate the Office 2013 look and feel. I hate the Office ribbon. I buy and install Classic Menu for Office to get back to the pull down menus – which are a 1000% more productive for me. And Office 2013 with no lines separating user features, not even the title bar at the top of the pane with the focus. Again, now it is my eyes that hurt and my productivity that suffers.

I’ve used Windows back when it started under DOS. I worked in the industry for 20 years installing everything from closets to servers to desktops and trained Windows and Office. My first 20 years was flying the RF-4C Phantom II, so my eyeballs are pretty good. But right on schedule at age 42 the eyes started to change. But I did not use glasses until age 55.

Now it is all about my eyes. I need a UI that works for me. Give me back the UI that works best for the user. Then I think Microsoft would have a Windows that works!

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The “Turmoil at Microsoft” article yesterday is very much appreciated. I have a small part time “retirement income” computer fixit/upgrade business” and I have been warning my older clients about “Disaster 8” since that preview edition in March or April 2012. I thought surely they were joking then and would fix/change it but the RTM and real ship versions still were unusable by most people over 50 with a lot of windows experience behind them. The thing that made me mad was that MS had all the retailers clear the shelves right away of Window 7 machines so many unsuspecting people got Windows 8 from places like Best Buy and Office Depot/Max. I don’t know anyone that said, “I like it”. Thank goodness for Classic Shell and Start 8. But the boneheads at MS keep me in extra pocket change so I guess I should not complain. It’s really great to see someone who knows a lot more than I do say that MS really missed this one. Obviously, they never really listened to their most loyal customers or had independent repair people like me test the product to tell the about how dumb leaving off the start menu was. Thanks for this great work. The corporate insights are much appreciated.
Let’s hope Windows 9 or whatever they call it next year is a more usable product on the traditional PCs. Thanks, Tom

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Thanks Woody for a well written article on what is going on at Microsoft. Like someone else mentioned, I do not recognize any of the names mentioned as I have never really kept up with the behind the scenes stuff at MS but thanks to you I kind of have a clearer picture of the characters that are in this production now.

I went from DOS straight to Win95, to Win98, to WinXP and now am on Win7. Compared to most folks here, I have had limited exposure to the various operating systems that MS has come out with. I have tried to pick and choose which ones I wanted to use and stuck with them until I was left no other choice. My WinXP Pro computer was about 3 years old when I got my Win7 computer back in December of 2013.

Yes I knew Win8 was out and I got Win7 because I did NOT want Win8 under any circumstances. From the first time I saw the commercials and read the write ups about it online I said “If I wanted their smartphone operating system I would buy one of their phones, but I already have an Android smartphone because I did NOT want a Windows based phone.” So I dug in my heels and said I am not going there because Win8 and touch screen on a desktop is just not feasible for me to use in my every day computing life. Then I had to go on the hunt last December for a computer that I could get with Windows 7 on it and thankfully found one.

But I was not going to do like so many people did and just go and buy a new computer and get stuck with Win8 because everywhere you looked that was all that was available… it was being crammed down our throats whether we wanted it or not. I have listened to people complaining about Win8 since they got their new computers and how much they hated it and now are stuck with it. I have heard very few people say they like it. All I knew was I did not want what MS was trying to force on us and had to do some searching to find what I wanted. And yes I am one of those that would still be perfectly happy with WinXP Pro right now if April were not getting so close. But I found ways to get back a couple of the things that I loved about WinXP and am learning to live with the limitations that Win7 has placed on me that I did not have in WinXP and I still find something every once in awhile that I cannot do, but I still have my WinXP machine too, so if push comes to shove, I can fire that back up and do what I need to do on there!

So I hold out hope for Win9 or whatever they wind up calling it and hope that somewhere a voice of reason will kick in and let Redmond know that we still like to use our keyboards and mice for working on a desktop!

Pam

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I also thank Woody for a superb article. Got my first notebook PC for Christmas; downloaded Windows 8.1 and just a few days ago purchased MS Office Pro Plus 2013. However, my very first purchase, even before delivery of my noteboo,k was your 8.1 book (all 1000+ pages).1,000+ page book. While it has been a life-saver, at times I feel like pitching “everythin” out the window and just using my trusty desktop running Windows 7 until it dies; hopefully not before I do. . I consider myself computer literate and know Windows 7 inside and out. But at nearly 81 years old. it is exhausting, frustrating and a few other words I won’t use! It’s nice to know that I am not alone. What I have been able to learn, I like for the most part. And I try to remember this when I am in tears. After I purchased and downloaded Office, I couldn’t even figure out how to get to it. A nice lady at Microstore Store online came to my rescue and told me that I had to open each individual Office program that I wanted to use and put it on my desktop. Hopefully, with the help of this forum and your book, I might even be able to figure it all out one of these days.

Marcy

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I also thank Woody for a superb article. Got my first notebook PC for Christmas; downloaded Windows 8.1 and just a few days ago purchased MS Office Pro Plus 2013. However, my very first purchase, even before delivery of my noteboo,k was your 8.1 book (all 1000+ pages).1,000+ page book. While it has been a life-saver, at times I feel like pitching “everythin” out the window and just using my trusty desktop running Windows 7 until it dies; hopefully not before I do. . I consider myself computer literate and know Windows 7 inside and out. But at nearly 81 years old. it is exhausting, frustrating and a few other words I won’t use! It’s nice to know that I am not alone. What I have been able to learn, I like for the most part. And I try to remember this when I am in tears. After I purchased and downloaded Office, I couldn’t even figure out how to get to it. A nice lady at Microstore Store online came to my rescue and told me that I had to open each individual Office program that I wanted to use and put it on my desktop. Hopefully, with the help of this forum and your book, I might even be able to figure it all out one of these days.

Marcy

Marcy:

Welcome to the Lounge!

Anytime you have questions, post them here. There are lots of us who are always available to help.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Marcy, You should check out Classic Shell ( http://www.classicshell.net/‎ ). It will turn Windows 8 or 8.1 to look like Windows 7 and you won’t have to put up with the Microsoft Windows 8 user interface unless you want to. You can switch between the two with one keystroke. I made a longer posting to this forum with more detail. – jim38ohio

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When I initially installed Windows 8 it was apparent it was a DISASTER! However, it was supposed to have many benefits; but the user interface was totally useless on a PC. I found, downloaded and installed “Classic Shell,” which allowed the user to boot to the Windows 7, or Windows XP, (or possibly others) user interface – traditional Start button and all. After all the familiar Windows is still there behind the Metro interface. It works great. Recently I purchased a touchscreen mini-notebook, HP model 10-e010nr, and also installed Classic Shell on it. Now I have the best of best worlds; the touchscreen works in both Metro and Classic Shell. It will boot to either Metro or the Classic Shell interface You switch between the two using Shift + Windows button. Now I think I kind of like it. If Microsoft could incorporate this in the next Windows 8.x version, they may be able to turn the sow’s ear into a silk purse. BTW, the HP 10-e010nr is a steal (but not for a power user) for casual use; at $299.00, it has 4BG memory, 300 GB hard disk, 2 USB 2.0, 1 USB 3.0, Ethernet, HDMI, memory card (SD, etc) ports, but no 15 pin video, and comes with Office 13 Home and Student license at no extra cost. I am a teacher and plan to use it for online and classroom teaching.

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