The New Outlook – I am confused.

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For many months on my Windows 10 machine Windows Mail has included (i) a banner stating that Outlook will replace Windows Mail in 2024 and (ii) a toggle switch to try Outlook. I have ignored both. Today, without any request by me, it appears that Outlook was installed. Under Settings>Apps “Outlook (new) Microsoft Corporation” is listed.

Microsoft seems to use the name “Outlook” in several of its products which is causing me some confusion. Specifically, is this new Outlook an email account? Is it cloud-based software? Will I need to have a Microsoft account which currently I do not have?

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280park wrote:

For many months on my Windows 10 machine Windows Mail has included (i) a banner stating that Outlook will replace Windows Mail in 2024 and (ii) a toggle switch to try Outlook.

From the sounds of that, I firmly believe that on your computer, the “old” Windows Mail app was replaced lock, stock, and barrel by the “new” Outlook app by MS.

It also sounds like they gave you plenty of fair warning about the event, even though it sounds like they never gave you a firm date (or date range) of when the Mail app would be replaced with the Outlook app.

The Outlook name is used throughout their online presence as a name that’s synonymous with email. For example, it’s the name of their email offering in Office 365 (maybe it’s actually called Microsoft 365?) and is the name of the place where one winds up if they try to login to an old Hotmail email account. It’s, obviously, also the name of their stand-alone email product that’s been part of Microsoft Office installations for ages.

In your case, I believe that you only have the app that’s probably available through the Microsoft Store and don’t have a sudden subscription to an online Outlook email address.

BUT, Microsoft will gladly sign you up for an Outlook email address if you want one!  😉

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280park

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@Bob99 -Thank you for the clarification. So, am I correct in concluding that, just like Windows Mail, I will not need a Microsoft account or an Outlook email address to use the Outlook (new) that was just installed on my machine?

Incidentally, Windows Mail has not been removed (yet) from my computer. It works well enough for me and I plan to continue using it until it is removed by Microsoft or until Microsoft stops supporting it with security updates.

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Getting started with the new Outlook for Windows – Microsoft Support

The annoying thing about some of the new things – New Outlook, New Teams are two examples where the new stuff isn’t better than the old stuff.

In particular if you are a fan of PST files, Microsoft is not and the new Outlook doesn’t support PST.

Also note that not all 3rd party accounts are fully supported.

I would not have shipped software less than what is already in the marketplace, but that’s just me.

3rd party (Gmail, Yahoo, etc.) accounts Support for 3rd party accounts.

Yes***

Yes

Yes

Yes***

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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wavy, Julie Corriveau, 280park

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Susan Bradley wrote:

The annoying thing about some of the new things – New Outlook, New Teams are two examples where the new stuff isn’t better than the old stuff.
…
I would not have shipped software less than what is already in the marketplace, but that’s just me.

New Outlook already has many more useful features than Windows Mail.

Does Windows Mail have any features that are missing from New Outlook?

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B… it’s not replacing Windows mail, it’s being shoved to Outlook desktop users.  It’s flat out not comparable.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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WStd47, WarningU2

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Susan Bradley wrote:

B… it’s not replacing Windows mail,

When will the new Outlook for Windows replace the Mail, Calendar, and People apps?

Beginning in 2024, new Windows 11 devices will be shipped with the new Outlook for Windows as the default mailbox application free for all to use. The Mail and Calendar applications will continue to be available via download in the Microsoft Store through December 31, 2024. After this date the Mail & Calendar applications will no longer be supported. On existing devices, users can switch to the new Outlook for Windows from a toggle in the Mail and Calendar applications.

Outlook for Windows: The Future of Mail, Calendar, and People on Windows 11

8/30/2023 Important: In mid-September 2023 (previously late August), we will also begin a process of auto-migrating Mail & Calendar app users to the new Outlook for Windows with an option to go back if they choose. Users can go back to the current Mail and Calendar apps by clicking the toggle in the new Outlook for Windows. We also want to reiterate that these changes will not affect your organization’s use of classic Outlook for Windows.

What you need to do to prepare:

There is nothing you do to prepare now, but we recommend you:

Let your Microsoft Windows users know about the change to the Mail and Calendar apps

Mail & Calendar Apps Will Be Replaced with New Outlook for Windows

 

Susan Bradley wrote:

it’s being shoved to Outlook desktop users.

No Office user has been switched to new Outlook by Microsoft. That’s years away:

The Classic Outlook for Windows Isn’t Going Anywhere (for Now)

Is there a timeline for end of life for classic Outlook?

Hear the latest update about the new Outlook for Windows from the product leads.

Update on the new Outlook for Windows — Microsoft 365

 

Susan Bradley wrote:

It’s flat out not comparable.

Does Windows Mail have any features that are missing from New Outlook?

(This thread is about Windows Mail — the only thing currently being replaced by new Outlook.)

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Re: The future of Classic Outlook:

As I expected, Microsoft intends to replace Classic Outlook with new Outlook. There is no timeline for this yet, but maybe 2-3 years out, but will come eventually. (according to the references provided above by b)

Windows 10 22H2 desktops & laptops on Dell, HP, ASUS; No servers, no domain.

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You are correct about it happening eventually. However, Microsoft has to get much closer to feature parity before attempting to get its business users to switch. Microsoft will meet great resistance anyway. Remember that they must keep their largest customers happy or at least not revolting over a change.

 

--Joe

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It’s not so much that Microsoft Mail has more features than New Outlook.  Rether, it’s that New Outlook does not let the user configure an IMAP username and instead uses the full email address as a default.  This means New Outlook cannot work with IMAP email providers that use a non-default username.

Now that New Outlook is forcibly replacing Mail & Calendar, affected users who can not configure IMAP are losing access to their existing Microsoft Calendar data.

Once this happens, there seems no way to roll back New Outlook. Nor is there any indication Microsoft plans to implement IMAP properly on New Outlook.

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If you had several email accounts (hotmail, gmail, outook 365 etc) set up in Windows Mail, there was a setting to “link” all accounts into a single “inbox”.  This functionality is missing in the new Outlook for Windows.  Instead of a single linked inbox, you have to click on each email account and open its respective inbox.  This is very time consuming for people with multiple email addresses.

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WSgaryc170, Cybertooth

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Yes. It is not possible to save more than one signature and yet Msft asks you to confirm your default…Ha ha

It may be one of the biggest tech companies but it cares nothing for its customers. I spend hrs every week trying to find out how to use their new products which keep being forced on me.

I rarely use the word hate. But in Msft’s case…

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mike fraser wrote:

Yes. It is not possible to save more than one signature and yet Msft asks you to confirm your default…Ha ha

All versions of Outlook support multiple signatures:

Create and add an email signature in Outlook

(New, Classic, Web, and Outlook.com)

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Susan Bradley – Thank you for the information and the Microsoft Support link. My email account is an old POP3 account that was established many years ago. The Microsoft Support linked page does not mention anything about POP3 accounts. If and when Microsoft forces everyone off of Windows Mail and into Outlook (new) I hope POP3 accounts will be supported.

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A lot of people have a lot of email in PST files. I wonder why they have dropped support for PST?

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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The link says PST file support is “*Coming soon” for new Outlook.

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MrJimPhelps

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280park wrote:

Today, without any request by me, it appears that Outlook was installed.

You can still continue to use old mail

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280park

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Alex5723 – Thanks for the link. Yes, I am still using Windows Mail even though Outlook (new) was installed yesterday.

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Alex5723

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My Mail app updated on all of my machines. I tried to open the “old” mail, but it closes immediately and opens the “new” mail. This is on both Windows 10 and Windows 11 machines. All are the Pro version of the operating system.

I guess its RIP to the old. I deferred the new as long as MS would let me.

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Dee – The new Outlook installed yesterday on my Windows 10 Pro computer without my requesting it. However, I did not open the new Outlook and I am still using the old Windows Mail.

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The New Outlook is being installed to get more people to test it. Microsoft has a laundry list of improvements to be made over time. See Things to look forward to in the new Outlook for Windows – Microsoft Community Hub for a list from November 2023 that is probably longer by now. If you go to Microsoft 365 Roadmap | Microsoft 365 you can see a tentative schedule.

--Joe

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Barry, Julie Corriveau, 280park

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I did try it on a test machine for about a month awhile back and went back to the old Mail. Now it forced the upgrade and will not let me go back.

I would be interested how many others are in this situation. The non-reversal without warning is not to my liking (understatement).

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joep517 – Thanks for the links. I am glad to see that POP3 account support is listed in the November 8, 2023 Microsoft post “Things to look forward to in the new Outlook for Windows. A comment from the Microsoft Community dated January 10, 2024 indicates that POP3 account support had not been added as of that date.

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WELL, I got hammered with New Outlook yesterday after using the previous versions since day one a century or two ago. First thing, none of th email accounts and logins carried over. Spent several hours entering the different email accounts I have. Second, the space bar no longer scrolls the email screen, but does auto scroll the listing of emails. Nice boo-boo. Third, changing the color scheme tends to block out the close, enlarge, shrink in the title bar (upper left conner0 to the point you can not see them. Also, one noticeable difference is the slowness now that it uses the One Drive to write back and forth to. Have not figured the frequency of the read/write but seems to be often enough to cause a slowdown. I guess the last issue so far (just one day of use) is the new font used. Horrible. Got to figure out how to permanently change.

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Cybertooth

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I actually like the new outlook. One thing that is confusing to me though, is it doesn’t seem to have spell check Am I missing something?

Barry
Windows 11 v23H2

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New Outlook does have spell (and grammar) check.

In a new message or reply, see Options then Editor.

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Now I’m Confused!

I am utilizing the Retail version of MS Office 2016 which includes Outlook (Click to Run).

I leave auto updates off and manually update periodically, which I have not done for awhile. So far no sign or nag regarding New Outlook.

Is my version of Outlook being affected or is this limited to the built in version of Mail and Outlook in Windows 10?

Windows 10 Pro x64 v22H2 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)

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Tex265 wrote:

Is my version of Outlook being affected

Not unless you update and get a try New Outlook switch on the tab bar, but that’s purely optional (for several years yet).

Tex265 wrote:

or is this limited to the built in version of Mail and Outlook in Windows 10?

Yes (and 11).

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B, I’m going to add to Susan’s concerns, especially from a corporate perspective, and yes Microsoft has promised PST’s, but it ain’t there now along with a number of changes that have my users cringing with the prospect of something else Microsoft crams down our Office tools throats (Aptos, is it worth the change, really).  Next comes that those of us wanting to utilize Microsoft CoPilot Microsoft 365 (yep, not a favourite of many AskWoody participants) must use the new Outlook.

Anyways, one step forward, two steps back, then we grudgingly move on as we don’t have a choice…. 🙂

Take care,

IT Manager Geek

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Cybertooth

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Microsoft 365 Copilot for classic Outlook is apparently coming very soon:

Microsoft plans to bring AI-powered Copilot in Outlook classic app on Windows

Have any of your Office users been forced to change to new Outlook?

(I like Aptos and use it in Outlook, but no one is forced to do that.)

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Hi All.

“Microsoft 365 Copilot for classic Outlook is apparently coming very soon:”  Well I guess we’ll see when it does.  Interestingly, all the CoPilot prerequisites I’ve come across state, New Outlook.

“Have any of your Office users been forced to change to new Outlook? ”  No, and I will acknowledge that for the most part the choice to switch for Outlook and Teams, then back again has worked well (a couple of issues with Teams New on Windows 10, but like many things, not consistent).

“(I like Aptos and use it in Outlook, but no one is forced to do that.)”  And I’m ok with Aptos too, but the point is it has become the default and in an organization that wishes to process changes appropriately (not in Susan’s Tax period scenario, though I share / agree with her concerns) all of the sudden change (spread out over a month) does cause some users (those were official correspondence is their life) headaches and for what reason????

IT Manager Geek

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b

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Say hello to Aptos as the new Word default font!

Why a small change by Microsoft was a big jolt for some users

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Glucose

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IT Manager Geek wrote:

“Microsoft 365 Copilot for classic Outlook is apparently coming very soon:”  Well I guess we’ll see when it does.  Interestingly, all the CoPilot prerequisites I’ve come across state, New Outlook.

Draft emails quicker and get coaching tips for your messages with Copilot in classic Outlook for Windows

Customers of the new Outlook for Windows have been enjoying Copilot features like draft, coaching, and summary which we announced last year. Since November last year, summary by Copilot has also been available in classic Outlook for Windows. Soon, draft and coaching will be coming to classic Outlook too.

…

Coaching will start rolling out in early March and draft by Copilot will start rolling out in late March.

What’s New in Copilot for Microsoft 365 — Published Feb 29 2024

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I find it hard to believe that MS would change Office users over to free Outlook. Because Outlook is what they have been paying a premium to get in their Office package for years. If the free Outlook becomes part of the Office package, then no need to buy that package. Use a free suite instead, and the free Outlook.

Unless of course the pst feature is not included in the free Outlook, but only in a premium version that is part of the Office suite.

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Theres’s some advertising in the free version, which is avoided with a Microsoft 365 subscription (same as on Android/iOS):

Is it an email or an ad? Understanding your Outlook inbox

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Glucose, 280park

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the PST version does not exist today on any Outlook.

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My uncle has Outlook 2010, and had been using an old PLUSNET (UK ISP) POP3 email for years. He does NOT have an Outlook email account, ONLY that POP3 one. Windows 10 OS.

Will he still be OK using that old email after September?

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PlusNet UK ISP also supports IMAP for incoming email as well as pop3.  You just need to go into your settings to change.

server: imap.plus.net, port: 993, security: SLS/TLS

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Wstd47,

I think you’re a bit confused. POP3 is an email standard the other one is IMAP.

Outlook is an email application that lets your download and read your email. Outlook supports both POP3 and IMAP email formats.

The bit difference between POP3 and IMAP is that POP3 stores everything on your computer whereas IMAP keeps things on the EMAIL Account Provider’s (Gmail, Your ISP, Microsoft, AOL, etc.) server.

The issue is older software like Outlook 2010 doesn’t support modern safety protocols as I understand it.

HTH

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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WStd47 wrote:

My uncle has Outlook 2010, and had been using an old PLUSNET (UK ISP) POP3 email for years. He does NOT have an Outlook email account, ONLY that POP3 one. Windows 10 OS.

Will he still be OK using that old email after September?

Probably (authentication depends on that ISP).

RetiredGeek wrote:

I think you’re a bit confused. POP3 is an email standard the other one is IMAP.
…
The issue is older software like Outlook 2010 doesn’t support modern safety protocols as I understand it.

Modern authentication now required for Outlook.com accounts doesn’t support POP or IMAP.

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just yesterday. A friend of mine called needing help because he had been switched to the new outlook and he had been using the old Microsoft Mail program.   he could not send an attachment with the new Outlook. He was totally confused. I didn’t really believe him, but I logged into his machine remotely and sure enough there was no way to get outlook to send attachments. It failed with an error message every time. He also had Microsoft Outlook the business version on his machine so we went to that version and I turned off the new outlook . and yes, magically outlook, The old outlook, was able to send attachments with no problem. I have no idea why the new outlook could not send attachments, but since I was seeing the same error message over and over again “try later”I assumed it was a problem at Microsoft. But why would the mail reader not be able to send an attachment? I just don’t understand that

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8string wrote:

the PST version does not exist today on any Outlook.

That is not true. The PST file format is still in use in Outlook and will remain that way. I have Outlook 2019, several IMAP accounts, keep all my emails in an Outlook PST file on my PC, and delete all emails from the server after downloading. Also when you archive your emails from your IMAP OST file the archive file is a PST file.
Having an IMAP and OST file does not mean PST files no longer exist or used.

HTH, Dana:))

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SueW, windbg

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8string wrote:

It failed with an error message every time. He also had Microsoft Outlook the business version on his machine so we went to that version and I turned off the new outlook . and yes, magically outlook, The old outlook, was able to send attachments with no problem. I have no idea why the new outlook could not send attachments

The MS Community forums are filled with numerous posts of what the “new” Outlook can’t do. Added to the confusion on new and classic Outlook is paid and free versions of Outlook (reminds me of the old Outlook Express – Outlook days). MS is supposed to be “working” on all these things the new Outlook isn’t doing. This is a totally different situation from users saying that have to switch from POP to IMAP (that’s Outlook.com mail servers).
The “new” Outlook will replace the free Windows Mail that installs with new versions of Windows.
Users that have purchased Outlook first were given a switch to try the new Outlook and then switched to it. Because of all the problems with the new Outlook these users that had Outlook already want to return to the classic Outlook where (as you found out) everything works. If a user wants to revert to the classic Outlook there is a Registry entry that will make Outlook use the classic version. If the new Outlook is the free Windows Mail replacement then the Registry key will not work as there is no classic version to use (that’s only in the paid versions).

HTH, Dana:))

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windbg

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Drcard:)) wrote:

Added to the confusion on new and classic Outlook is paid and free versions of Outlook (reminds me of the old Outlook Express – Outlook days).
…
Because of all the problems with the new Outlook these users that had Outlook already want to return to the classic Outlook where (as you found out) everything works.

Free Outlook may get a few ads as emails, but otherwise no difference.

New Outlook works fine for me. I don’t want to revert to classic Outlook.

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I thought that IF a user had a Microsoft email account (amongst others that a user may have with the Classic Outlook), that they showed as “Exchange” in the connection status? Or is that actually using IMAP protocol under the hood, and that is what you mean.

I was in IT for 40 years, and used MS products and Office from when they first came out, and the way that MS have handled this currently is crazy, no wonder even experienced users are confused.

It is almost like there were several tech and marketing teams involved with all this, fighting each other, and we have a compromise resulting in chaos and user confusion. Of course, using the Outlook name as part of the product name did not help. Because MS released this unfinished, and unpolished product way too early, we now have long discussions on here, about what is working, and what is not, between the Classic, and the New Outlook!

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Cybertooth

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The tech teams at Msft have nothing to do with naming or marketing. This whole fiasco is from the Marketing and senior mgmt within the Office product teams.My guess is they all are under 4o and have never worked in IT before. They likely have little sympathy or understanding for us who use and actually support the product.

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WStd47 wrote:

I thought that IF a user had a Microsoft email account (amongst others that a user may have with the Classic Outlook), that they showed as “Exchange” in the connection status? Or is that actually using IMAP protocol under the hood, and that is what you mean.

By a Microsoft email account you mean an account using a Microsoft mail server such as @outlook.com or @hotmail.com, then yes, that would be an Exchange server using MAPI protocol.
The posting is referring to the app you use on the PC to access your email accounts. Outlook including the “new” Outlook can access other mail servers besides Microsoft Exchange and most of those servers will be IMAP protocol.
Outlook (including the free new Outlook) can handle POP, IMAP, and Exchange mail protocols.

HTH, Dana:))

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b wrote:

Free Outlook may get a few ads as emails, but otherwise no difference.

Are you saying that the free new Outlook can be turned into the classic Outlook using that Registry value?   If not, then they are different.  As far as there being “no difference” I suggest you peruse the Microsoft Community boards at the following link and look at the number of posters stating many different things they are not able to do in the new Outlook that they used to do with classic Outlook.  It appears to many users that there is a big difference between new and old.

You may not see a difference if you don’t use those Outlook functions that are missing in the new Outlook.

Microsoft Community Boards

HTH, Dana:))

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Drcard:)) wrote:

Are you saying that the free new Outlook can be turned into the classic Outlook using that Registry value?

No. As you pointed out, that’s only possible if you already had a paid version.

I was pointing out that there’s no difference between free Outlook and new Outlook (apart from a few ad emails in the free version), so the fact that both free and paid versions of new Outlook exist shouldn’t add to any confusion (and it’s not like the Outlook Express vs. classic Outlook differences used to be).

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Drcard:)) wrote:

WStd47 wrote:

I thought that IF a user had a Microsoft email account (amongst others that a user may have with the Classic Outlook), that they showed as “Exchange” in the connection status? Or is that actually using IMAP protocol under the hood, and that is what you mean.

By a Microsoft email account you mean an account using a Microsoft mail server such as @outlook.com or @hotmail.com, then yes, that would be an Exchange server using MAPI protocol.
The posting is referring to the app you use on the PC to access your email accounts. Outlook including the “new” Outlook can access other mail servers besides Microsoft Exchange and most of those servers will be IMAP protocol.
Outlook (including the free new Outlook) can handle POP, IMAP, and Exchange mail protocols.

I though I saw several posts on here, suggesting that CURRENTLY, the New Outlook still does not support .PST files, that is why was questioning my uncles use of ONLY an old POP3 email from his ISP, and he does NOT have a Microsoft Outlook Email, or GMAIL account on his system with an old Outlook 2010, that HOPEFULLY will work after September? Just asking in case he might be forced to use the “New Outlook”.

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WStd47 wrote:

I though I saw several posts on here, suggesting that CURRENTLY, the New Outlook still does not support .PST files, that is why was questioning my uncles use of ONLY an old POP3 email from his ISP, and he does NOT have a Microsoft Outlook Email, or GMAIL account on his system with an old Outlook 2010, that HOPEFULLY will work after September? Just asking in case he might be forced to use the “New Outlook”.

Yes and no on the new Outlook supporting PST. The New Outlook will not be able to use the PST file as an ACTIVE email file. By ACTIVE means downloading emails from the mail server to a folder in that file directory. The New Outlook will be able to display all the emails already stored in a PST file. As I posted earlier the PST file becomes just an Outlook Data File where emails can be stored. The first link below posted by a Microsoft employee thru Microsoft explains this.

Outlook: Initial version of PST support in new Outlook for Windows

For a detailed listing of what will be the same and differences between the Old and New Outlooks Microsoft has posted in the link below:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/new-and-classic-outlook-for-windows-feature-comparison-de453583-1e76-48bf-975a-2e9cd2ee16dd

Since your uncle is not using Microsoft accounts the September deadline may not affect him. The status on your uncle’s POP account lies with his mail provider and if they decide to continue to support POP and do not require account to switch to IMAP or Exchange. Just be prepared as the industry norm is phasing out POP account, but as stated before he can still keep his emails in the old PST file he has now.

HTH, Dana:))

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WStd47

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Our organization uses on-premise Exchange 2019 with Outlook 2021. When we transitioned to Windows 11 we had to uninstall ‘new’ Outlook because users kept clicking on it and and being prompted to setup email. We thought we had it tackled but any time an update occurs it re-installs ‘new’ Outlook and it has been changed as the default for .eml files. This, again, prompts the users to setup email. It is very frustrating.

How can we permanently disable this from downloading and installing? We have Outlook 2021 and do not want to use or be prompted to use ‘new’ Outlook.

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I think you need to read our KB article.  🙂

cheers, Paul

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