Questions about making a system image and a backup rescue USB

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I keep reading over and over to be sure you have a system image and a rescue USB before the monthly Tuesday patches.   I’ve received some advice atCheapest insurance you will get and have been reading up on several mentioned. I have several really basic questions, at the outset.

1. Is a creating a system backup the same thing as a creating a system image? I am reading the term “system backup” but not “system image” in the software guides.

2. Is it recommended to delete temporary files before creating a system backup/system image?

3. If one is creating a system backup on an external drive and is doing this before each month’s Tuesday patches, I’m thinking that it’s not necessary to keep every month’s run on this external drive. Maybe, at most two or three month’s worth?

I am asking this because I already do weekly and day-before-Patch-Tuesday file backups of c:\User\username\ folders (Desktop, Documents, Favorites, Downloads, Links, Pictures, etc plus other self-created folders) on a dedicated backup drive so that means that I don’t need the system backup to retrieve any of these folders.

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Before installing updates on my Win7 I always ran a system image on an external HD. I keep at least two of the most recent images on the external HD, plus I have a 256 gb USB flash drive for photos/files/designs as a second backup for those particular documents and production files. If I ever need a full recovery of the system I have the images saved to the external, and getting files from the USB is fast and easy when mobile and if sharing them between devices, also a good backup to have on hand. HTH

MacOS iPadOS and sometimes SOS

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1. Is a creating a system backup the same thing as a creating a system image? I am reading the term “system backup” but not “system image” in the software guides.

>An image is a snapshot of the entire selected disk or partition(s). A backup is just a copy of selected files/folders. You can restore an entire disk from an image in one step.

2. Is it recommended to delete temporary files before creating a system backup/system image?

>Not necessary, but I usually do it.

3. If one is creating a system backup on an external drive and is doing this before each month’s Tuesday patches, I’m thinking that it’s not necessary to keep every month’s run on this external drive. Maybe, at most two or three month’s worth?

>Yes, two or three months should do, or as many you think you would need to notice if something went wrong…

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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b

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Still wondering about question #1. Could someone read the description of “System Backup” function and tell me if this means the same thing as “system image”?

Notice that for system recovery, the “restore” function uses the term “system image” in the description of what it does.

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An image is a backup, but a backup is not necessarily an image, unless explicitly stated as such.

That statement above from AOMEI regarding their System Backup appears to imply that they are calling their imaging program a “backup”.

So the “image” and “backup” terminology appears to have become rather mixed in use today. In the past, a backup only copied selected files/folders to a backup medium. That would still be recommended for day to day use, to protect your important daily work each day.

But an “image” is usually a sector by sector copy of the entire physical disk layout. Everything goes into the image, including all files. This is similar to “cloning” the disk, but the result goes into a proprietary file container called an image file, that can be archived. But it needs to be “restored” to be used again as a drive, although in many cases the image file can be “mounted” as a drive directly by the imaging program and files can be read and copied from it.

A “clone” is an exact copy of the drive that is moved directly to another disk. This is usually done for swapping to another physical drive, rather than archiving, but it’s a similar process of reading and copying from the source drive.

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Elly

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Thanks, @JohnW, for your reply here. I learned a lot.
Let me ask a couple of questions about the bootable USB.
1. Whenever a system backup=system image is created, must a bootable USB be created at the same time each time? (I am presuming here that the software that creates the system backup=system image is the same software that creates the bootable USB.)

Or once the bootable USB is created, can it be used for access to a later system backup=system image? (in other words, one needs to create it only one time and it’s good for a later need).

2. Is there some information that the bootable USB has in it or that the user gives to it that indicates where to find the system backup=system image, which is in a different location, i.e., on an external HD? In other words, how does the bootable USB (on a USB) know where to look for the system backup=system image (on an external HD)?

3. I have read elsewhere in posts that one should “test” what has been created to be sure it works when truly needed. Does this mean test the bootable USB that has been created? Or does this mean test the system backup=system image that has been created, also? (As I understand it, calling upon the system backup=system image to be “restored” is going to overwrite the disk with all of the information that is in the system backup=system image. If this is the case, how can one just only test” it?)

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1. Create the bootable USB once from the backup image software. You don’t need to create it each time you make an image. You run the restore from it, and it should work anytime with the system it was created on. The bootable recovery USB typically has a self-contained OS and mini version of the image software that you will need to run the restore process from.
2. Once you have booted into the restore software, you should be able to browse to the source image file and the target drive to restore to. The image source file should be on a drive that is attached to the PC.
3. A simple test one should always make is to boot from the USB recovery disk, and then make sure you can browse to the necessary drives as if you are going to restore, then cancel. [3b]. If you are more ambitious, you can always restore to a spare hard drive, rather than the actual system drive. The safest, easiest way to do this would be to swap a spare blank drive into the PC position that your main system drive occupies, and safely store the original drive offline during the test. Then run the restore to the spare drive. This will prevent you from accidentally overwriting the real system drive, and assure you that the process works end to end.

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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JohnW wrote:

A simple test one should always make is to boot from the USB recovery disk,

How does one boot from the bootable USB? I want only to test it to make sure it boots the PC (in other words, I don’t want to re-create the system). The bootable USB was made by the same software that made the system image. In the case of testing it to make sure it boots the PC, does the external drive that holds the system image have to be plugged in, too?

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In Aomei select “Backup”.
Select “System Backup”.
Go to “Step2” and choose your backup drive / folder.
Click “Start Backup”.

No need to remove any temp files because they are very small compared to everything else.

cheers, Paul

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Paul T wrote:

n Aomei select “Backup”.
Select “System Backup”.
Go to “Step2” and choose your backup drive / folder.
Click “Start Backup”.

OK, I have a few more questions, this time about the bootable media, using Aoemi.
1. Does the external drive that has the system image on it have to remain plugged in when creating the bootable USB?
2. I’ve used Diskmgmt.msc, right-click on Disk, select Properties, click on the Volumes tab, and I have learned that the partition style is GUID Partition Table. So, do I create an UEFI bootable USB? Or do I create a legacy bootable USB?
3. Do I check the box for Downloading WinPE creating environment from the internet?

I’ve attached an image from the instructions (which give no explanation for what choice to make).

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[DriftyDonN]

KYKaren wrote:

1. Is  creating a system backup the same thing as a creating a system image? I am reading the term “system backup” but not “system image” in the software guides.

 

System ‘backup’ USED to mean copy all of your files to an external source. Generally this would only be helpful if you had to pick and choose individual files and copy them back to the HD.

A system IMAGE however is an exact image of your hd- ie a snapshot. This includes the hd partition arrangement as well as all hidden files,system files, program files AND their locations,as well  as your individual work product files. The entire disk as IT IS at that time. The imaging software then puts this snapshot in a database-like file that only the creating software can “grab: and put it back exactly as it was when you made it. If it was a month ago and you have been using your system, anything and everything you had done will be gone. Think format(wipe) and reinstall clean. You CAN mount this image and pick and choose files and extract them from the image to USB or folder on your HD. But if your OS is corrupt or the image is corrupt, its all GONE and you will not be able to use it.

A BACKUP on the other hand can be as simple as saving a file when you are finished working with it (spreadsheet) to the above mentioned copy ALL files to an external source or even to a different file on your hd.

Genarally backup is COPY and IMAGE is change the structure and put it all in a can the image SW can read and restore in an emergency situation. Note you MUST make this image file and an emergency bootable medium-usb,sc,dvd before you need them. If you image the disk but dont make the emergency bootable, and thsystem wont boot normally, you are going to have to jump thru some hoops to get that image to restore.

I hope this doesn’t strike you as patronizing – I dont know your background. I started in Dos days where “back up” was a simple copy to floppy’s. The OS was so small it was easier to save your work to a floppy multiple times a day. In the event of a n OS crash, it was a simple thing to reinstall the os reinstall your programs and copy your saved files back to the HD. There was “imaging” of a sort  but it involved magnetic tape and proprietary programs to backup(image)  the systems .

Bear in mind this is a very basic description- I was an Immunologist, not IT!

I hope this wasn’t condescending or insulting. Just trying to help a bit.

DrifyDonN

 

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by DriftyDonN.

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Elly

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I am a raw newbie with Win10/Pro so don’t worry about your answers. I’ve used Win7, Vista (kept it updated manually with Server 2008 files for two years past its EOL), WinXP, Win3.0, and DOS but have never done a system image or made a bootable USB, believe it or not. Nor have I had any problems with crashes or faulty updates. I started subscribing here on Jan 20 to better learn how to manage Win10, because I decided to put my Win7 device aside and move to Win10 — thus, the remark about reading over and over again the importance of a system image and a bootable USB, given the problems that some users have with the Win10 updates. I know that some have said the chances of running into problems with the monthly updates are small, but nevertheless, it doesn’t hurt to be prepared, IN CASE. Thanks for telling me what you know — every little bit helps.

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[DriftyDonN]

kykaren. w/ your experience you are not a newbie!!(just new to win10) Prior to win 10 (I skipped 8 altogether) I hadn’t imaged a drive either- I had made emergency boot disks but I think win10 is not even a close relative to any previous OS so we are ALL newbies to one degree or another. Of course, those who got win10 pre release and spent the last 5 yrs reading booting, breaking and waiting on msft have a jump on the rest of us. We, the masses who are self taught, rely on these folks and are so very greatful for helping us along the path of the unknown…and w/ the upgrade / update fiasco- unknowable!!

I Use my PC for everything- am homebound as a care giver 24/7..have groceries delivered, and am so dependant on this thing I shudder prior to every terrible tuesday. I bought a 2014 car in Jan 2017-and no kidding have put 3 tanks of gas in it!!! Dr appointments and emergencies only.So u can see how much i need this. Anyway we have been blessed. But worrying about loss of access  . .really is painful. I have 5 computers one w/ win7 and airgapped for my wife to “game” on solitaire , Mah jong, etc and 3 win10, , (oh and a currently troubled) winxp for personal fun-old games, photos, music. It was a 3k machine when I got it…dellxps m1710…weighs about 9 lbs!!I am personally and emotionally involved w/ it.

Any way, my pleasure to interact here even tho I am not too up on win10 so Cheers to Woody et al!!!

Be well be safe and have a good time!!

DriftyDonN

Edit: for content.

 

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by DriftyDonN.

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Elly

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I am about ready to make a system backup=system image and a bootable USB to use prior to Patch Tuesday updates. I am thinking ahead to the point where I connect the external drive and the USB flash drive.

I have a laptop that has 1 type C port and 1 3.0 Power-Share port on the left side (in addition to a 2.0 port on the right side which I use for the Logitech mouse receiver). So I am looking at the left side for connections that are needed. I’ve been looking at 2T+ external drives. Most of them have the usual USB 3.0 connection (and they are considerably cheaper and larger that way).

Can I use an adapter (C-male at one end and 3.0-female at the other end) to connect the external drive to the Type-C port? This would make the 3.0 Power-Share port available for the bootable USB.

I’ve pinpointed a 5T external USB 3.0 portable hard drive with hardware encryption. What is hardware encryption, anyway?

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Here is an example of a USB-C to USB 3.0 Adapter: https://www.amazon.com/nonda-Adapter-Thunderbolt-Aluminum-Indicator/dp/B015Z7XE0A/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=nonda+Adapter+Thunderbolt+Aluminum+Indicator&qid=1582569429&sr=8-1

I have never used one, but this appears to be a popular model.

You will only need to attach the backup drive to make the image, but the restore process will require both a USB bootable flash drive and the backup drive to be attached.

In your case, you could always unplug the Logitech receiver from the USB-2 port (revert to the trackpad temporarily) to get an extra port, and insert the USB flash drive there.

I would attach the backup drive on the fastest USB port (either C or 3) to improve the backup imaging elapsed time. Assuming you are using a USB-3 backup drive (recommended).

Agree with PaulT’s comment regarding a non-encrypted drive.

Edit: Fixed link (I think).

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Hello Karen.  I don’t know if this is useful to you, but over the last few months I was thinking about all the issues in this thread.  I have a pair of  WD 2 TB USB 2 external drives that I have used for backups during the last few years.

Around Christmastime, I was at Costco and saw a Seagate 5 TB external drive on sale – I think it was $90.  It is rated for USB 3 of course.  What caught my eye is that this unit does NOT have an external power supply.  It gets power and moves data over one short USB cable.  I figured I could use it for backup on my PC, and my wife’s PC, and even my Chromebook.

So far, so good.  I am also using AOMEI software.

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If you have 2 USB3 ports you just plug the drive into one and the USB into the other. No extra cables needed.
Alternatively, make a small partition (5GB) at the front for the USB boot and the rest as a large partition for the backup files – make the boot disk on partition 1 and test before backup.

Hardware encrypted is built into the drive. The downside is it needs some sort of initialization to decrypt the data and that may not be possible via your backup software – you don’t want to find out at restore time.
Get a non-encrypted drive.

cheers, Paul

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[DriftyDonN]

I use Macrium reflect so I do not recognize your screenshot. If I were to hazard a guess(dangerous) I would go w/ legacy. The winPE environment is interesting. Macrium will actully put a winPE bootable choice on your boot menu. I dont even have to use a bootable USB, but I have one anyway. And it works fine.

I’m not sure you need to have your destination(which has the images already created) attached at time of booting into the emergency environment. Macrium runs in windows environment to create the image. The emergency USB bootable is for restoring an image already created.

Boot using emergency usb boot disk, MacriumReflect will open. attach external USB ssd w/

image(s) and you should be able to select which you want to restore.

I realize this is not the software you are using but I try to use simple user friendly software(which is why I despise win10)

Best wishes,

DriftyDonN

USB C hubs

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YD1ZQG5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

or abit less $

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MCTET84/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by DriftyDonN. Reason: additional info

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WCHS wrote:

1. Does the external drive that has the system image on it have to remain plugged in when creating the bootable USB?

No. The system image files are just files, nothing special.

WCHS wrote:

2. I’ve used Diskmgmt.msc, right-click on Disk, select Properties, click on the Volumes tab, and I have learned that the partition style is GUID Partition Table. So, do I create an UEFI bootable USB? Or do I create a legacy bootable USB?

GUID is UEFI boot. It will only boot on modern UEFI based PCs.

WCHS wrote:

3. Do I check the box for Downloading WinPE creating environment from the internet?

Linux based boot disk is fine. Test it after you have created it and if it’s no good try the WinPE one.

cheers, Paul

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KYKaren wrote:
2. I’ve used Diskmgmt.msc, right-click on Disk, select Properties, click on the Volumes tab, and I have learned that the partition style is GUID Partition Table. So, do I create an UEFI bootable USB? Or do I create a legacy bootable USB?

Paul T wrote:
GUID is UEFI boot. It will only boot on modern UEFI based PCs.

@Paul T: I am not sure I understand your answer, but I think you are saying this:
Since you are creating the bootable USB on a machine that is using the GUID Partition Table as its partition style, then you can create an UEFI bootable USB to use on this same machine. Right?

Would a legacy bootable USB created on a machine that is using the GUID Partition Table as its partition style also work as a bootable USB on that same machine?

In other words, a legacy bootable USB will work on both a old-fashioned BIOS machine AND an UEFI machine (i.e. a legacy bootable USB is inclusive)?
But, an UEFI bootable USB will work only on a UEFI machine (i.e., a UEFI bootable USB is exclusive)?

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DriftyDonN wrote:

I dont even have to use a bootable USB, but I have one anyway.

You do when the disk fails.

DriftyDonN wrote:

I try to use simple user friendly software

I don’t think Macrium is simple or friendly compared to Aomei.

cheers, Paul

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I agree here with Paul’s assessment of Aomei. I first looked at Macrium and was soon lost. I also looked at Ease ToDo, but there are lapses in English that make the manual hard to decipher. Aoemi, on the other hand, is very straightforward with versatile functions, for example, the system backup/image backup also easily allows one to look at the backed up files. The website has many links with screenshots with step-by-step instructions.

I admit that I asked a lot of questions about Aomei, but that was due to not knowing basic terminology: (such as “is a system backup the same thing as a image backup” and “what is the difference between the old-fashioned BIOS and the newer UEFI?”)

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Paul, u r right! if the disk fails you need the emergency usb bootable. redundancy is good!
…and don’t forget the emergency disk for windows 10…..another scenario that could take a while to explain on this thread. But=> KYKaren might want to check out PKCano’s reply #2141651 and others in Topic: Rescue Disk/USB stick for more info. The more ammunition for win10 breakdowns the better!
D

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@driftyDonN
Thanks for the lead to #2141651 and other posts there. I think I understand how to make a system (=image) backup and a bootable USB, how to test a bootable USB with windows running, and how to use a bootable USB at power-up, thanks to answers to questions I’ve posted on AskWoody. And I think I understand how to restore from the image backup, (at the same time, hoping that that will never be necessary). But, even after reading that post and others on your topic “Rescue Disk/USB stick,” I am not the least bit sure that I understand the difference between these and a “Recovery Drive” that one can create on a USB via the same-named app at the Windows 10 Control Panel.

But, I share your pain with the prospect of wheels falling off the wagon.

However, there’s hope: Susan Bradley in her article “Questions on controlling Windows 10 updating” in the latest newsletter ISSUE 17.9.0 • 2020-03-02, says “Later this month, I’ll be discussing my backup and recovery strategy for Windows 10 devices. Stay tuned.”

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WCHS wrote:

How does one boot from the bootable USB?

With Windows running.
Plug in the USB.
Hold the Shift key down and click on Windows Restart.
When prompted select “Use a device” and choose the USB.

cheers, Paul

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Thanks for this elemental piece of info.
And afterwards (after testing the USB), I am guessing that one shuts down, unplugs the USB, then powers up again, and it all proceeds as it does normally (i.e., without the assistance of the bootable USB)? {I need to visualize it all from beginning to end.}

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If the thing you’re trying to protect against (some kind of a system disaster where you would need to use that backup), you won’t be able to get into Windows to have it boot from the USB device.  You’ll have to find out what the boot override key is on your system (typically F12 on recent machines).  If you press that during POST (power on self test, right after power on or restart, before it boots), it will present you with a menu of boot devices that should include your USB drive.

I agree that Macrium has an unnecessarily complicated interface, and that Aomei Backupper’s is much simpler.  I used to suggest Backupper to anyone in need of a good backup program in Windows, but it managed to mess up some restore operations that I tried to do (things like creating a MBR partition table on a UEFI device, even though the disk that had been backed up was GPT… that was on my Acer Swift, which is one of the rare PCs that cannot boot in legacy mode).  I was able to fix that, but not everyone can, and it certainly should not be doing that, so I stopped recommending it.  That was a while ago, so it’s very possible that particular bug no longer exists.

On the good side, Backupper was the fastest backup program in Windows that I’d used when encryption was on… lots of them were speedy with unencrypted backups, but they fell flat on their faces when encryption was turned on.  Acronis True Image (paid) was decent, but Aomei Backupper was faster.

I never tried Reflect with encryption on, as the free version did not have that feature, and Reflect was just too expensive for the paid version ($70 per PC, and I had three that I would have wanted to use it on).  Now, I think the free version of Backupper also lacks encryption, but when I used it, the free version was able to encrypt.

I haven’t had occasion to try it again since I learned about Veeam for Linux, so this info is quite possibly out of date.  I would suspect the bug I mentioned was fixed by now.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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WCHS wrote:

In other words, a legacy bootable USB will work on both a old-fashioned BIOS machine AND an UEFI machine? But, an UEFI bootable USB will work only on a UEFI machine

Spot on.
Assuming the UEFI machine correctly emulates MBR, not all early ones did.

WCHS wrote:

I am guessing that one shuts down, unplugs the USB, then powers up again

You have it down pat!  🙂

cheers, Paul

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Assuming the UEFI machine correctly emulates MBR, not all early ones did.

How early is early? This GUID Partition Table machine came out in 2016. So, I might be better off with an UEFI bootable USB, rather than a legacy bootable USB?

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WCHS wrote:

I might be better off with an UEFI bootable USB

If you are going to use the USB on your PCs and they are UEFI, create a UEFI boot USB.

WCHS wrote:

I am not the least bit sure that I understand the difference between these and a “Recovery Drive”

This is a copy of Windows that will allow you to fix things if your installed Windows goes pear shaped. Worth having a copy “just in case”.

cheers, Paul

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This [a Recovery Drive] is a copy of Windows that will allow you to fix things if your installed Windows goes pear-shaped.

1. If the need arises to use a Win10-created Recovery Drive, does it wipe out data, e.g, the contents of username folders, such as the standard (My) Documents, Desktop, AppData, Downloads, Favorites, Links, Music, Pictures, Videos, as well as other user-created folders under the username folder?
2. If the Win10-created Recovery Drive was made in 2016 when the machine was new and on version 1607, does it need to be re-created, now that machine is on version 1909?
3. Given that one has both a system image (in conjunction with a bootable USB) and a Win10-created Recovery Drive, what do you use when? For example, if a Windows Update [messes] up things, which one is called into action: the image backup (in conjunction with the bootable USB)? or the Recovery Drive? or both? or if it depends, on what does it depend?

You may ask why I am asking these questions now, since I’ve had the machine since 2016. The answer is: I rarely used it except for syncing with my primary Win7 machine. It’s the other way around now – the Win10 machine is my primary machine.

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Windows recovery should allow you to fix/re-install with options to keep your data.

I would want a recovery made from the current system, either Windows or your backup app. Older versions may have issues with a more recent system.

Let’s say you accidently updated without having a current backup. In that case I would attempt recovery with Windows. Any other time a restore is the go.

cheers, Paul

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Stupid question but just to know:

Let’s say Windows doesn’t boot at all or the HD or SSD is completly dead, are we

still able to open the CD tray by pressing on it’s open/close button ?

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There should be a small hole in the cover of the CD tray. If you insert an unbent paperclip in the hole (gently), it activates the release mechanism and the tray will open

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Yes, if computer is turned on (even if windows do not boot), CD drive button should work. If button does not work, use the tiny hole to open mechanically as @PKCano wrote.

Dell Latitude 3420, Intel Core i7 @ 2.8 GHz, 16GB RAM, W10 22H2 Enterprise

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