Question on results of drive-health scans: HP PC; Windows 7 SP1

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Hi Helpers,

This is a corollary to what’s been discussed in http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//145094-How-to-test-health-of-external-hard-drive.

The health of internal hard drive in my HP PC has been looking scary according to Hard Disk Sentinel. It rates the health currently at 68%, a number that has been falling every few days from its high August 1 of 97% (where it had been since I first loaded the Sentinel trial). It is still gives it a “good”. Results also say:

There are 22 bad sectors on the disk surface. The contents of these sectors were moved to the spare area.
Based on the number of remapping operations, the health of the disk was decreased in different steps.
At this point, warranty replacement of the disk is not yet possible, only if the health drops further.

The increasing number of bad sectors matches the lowering score. The S.M.A.R.T. score seems to be okay as far as I can tell.

I was advised to check with the disk manufacturer re. S.M.A.R.T. and what analytic tool the manufacturer recommends. Doing so, I discovered that my SATA disk drive was manufactured by Seagate. Seagate likes to use SeaTools and suggests other tools might not give relevant information. When downloaded and run, that program gives my drive a “pass” on S.M.A.R.T. and offers no warnings.

So, what’s the verdict according to the Loungers who know about these things? Do I focus on SeaTools with daily checks or pay attention to HD Sentinel? Or is there another suggestion?

Also:

[*] can I do something about the bad sectors to make them good?
[*]we get a lot of power surges and outages (Florida!); the PC is on battery backup, but could the surges cause the bad sectors?

A lot of questions and information, but wanted to give you as much as I could to go on.

Thanks for any advice you can offer!

Linda

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It rates the health currently at 68%, a number that has been falling every few days from its high August 1 of 97%

Linda,

Falling every few days? I’d order a new disk now so you have it when you need it, use the warranty replacement as a spare or additional drive. Keep an up-to-date Image and secondary backup of your data JIC! :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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I was kind of afraid of that. Have never bought an internal hard drive before. Can you suggest a link for info on how to do so? Or do I just check out the HP site for my computer model?

Thanks for your response – and for its speed!

Linda

P.S. Will create another image this week. Data is all backed up in the cloud (Mozy). Is that enough?

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P.S. Will create another image this week. Data is all backed up in the cloud (Mozy). Is that enough?

I really doubt it.

I strongly recommend that you test its viability.

You should boot up your computer with your Boot Rescue CD,
and test whether that has the ability to access your images in the cloud.

I rather suspect that encrypted cloud(Mozy) backups might require the operation of Mozy software running under your installed Windows,
and that will NOT be available when your main drive and Windows is broken and all you have is a Linux based Boot Rescue CD.

I recommend having an external HDD for essential image backups.

N.B. Even an external HDD could be troublesome with a USB3 interface unless your Boot Rescue CD includes USB3 drivers.

Test now whilst you still have a working computer that can create new Boot Rescue media with whatever “extras” that will be needed when disaster strikes.
Do not wait for the ship to sink and then discover your lifebelt is punctured.

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Thanks for the input, Alan. I do have a new external HDD with image backups and an older one with hard drive data (which will be shifted to the new one). Although it made me extremely nervous, I did test the Boot Rescue CD made with my first new Macrium backup and it worked. I did not, however, test access to Mozy files as you mentioned. These are the kinds of things we non-techie types don’t get so I appreciate your taking the time to explain the issue. Your note has also reminded me (even though I KNOW it’s overdue!) to get another image backup done on the new HDD, test it and backup key files locally or on disk as well. Your comment about being ahead of disaster is so true and human nature has us putting off too often … and finding the life jacket full of holes when we need it!!!

Linda

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Linda,

Any bare drive will do as long as it has the same interface type, e.g. IDE (Large Ribbon Cable) or SATA (small flat cable).
Most likely you’ll want a 3.5″ drive for your desktop. Since you mention in your OP that you have SATA you could also consider an SSD from Crucial (my favorite as I just put one in my laptop) if you go this route you may also need to purchase a bracket to fit the 2.5″ SSD into a 3.5″ drive slot in your case unless your case also has 2.5″ drive slots.
I’m personally fond of Western Digital drives but others have other preferences. Try sites like Amazon, NewEgg, Tiger Direct, etc.
Decide on a drive and then shop price. Good Luck. :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Wonderful information! Thank you. When I work up the nerve to open my PC’s case (to clean it with compressed air), I’ll see what drive is there. I’m pretty sure there is room for a second one as well. If not, thanks to “health of hard drive” thread responses, I know I can use the warranty one as a “plain Jane” for backups.

Have to back burner it for a few days, but will post with results.

Linda:^_^:

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Being too nervous to open the case and look inside to determine size and needed specs, I found the product number of my current drive in Hard Disk Sentinel info and searched on Google.

Will the drives that showed up be what I need in terms of fit? They vary in GB size and MB cache size. All are 3.5″ and made by Seagate, manufacturer of current HP drive.

Can I add as much memory as I want or does that depend on other things in my PC setup?

As for Crucial SSDs, I researched them, too, and they sure get fantastic reviews. They are much more expensive (a consideration). Do you think they justify the price? I have a surface knowledge only of SSDs, as we didn’t have any so I have spent little research time on them.

Extra Info: Did some “comparison searches” on SSD vs. HDD right after posting. Appears that HDD has more capacity, at cheaper price than SSD and that speed issue won’t be huge factor for our business use so it looks as if the HDD will be fine, given its price right now.

I’m going to get someone else to install it when it’s time as I don’t want to mess around in my PC’s innards, but want to have a new drive on hand as suggested. The number of bad sectors is up to 26, but the S.M.A.R.T. Vendor Specific values are all well within range. Sheesh!

Feedback welcome on this new series of questions!

Thanks,

Linda

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Linda,

There are some limits on the size of the HDD based on the age of your system and its BIOS. If it’s less than 3-4 years old and you stay under 2GB you shouldn’t have any problems. :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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So, what’s the verdict according to the Loungers who know about these things? Do I focus on SeaTools with daily checks or pay attention to HD Sentinel? Or is there another suggestion?

Also:

[*]can I do something about the bad sectors to make them good?
[*]we get a lot of power surges and outages (Florida!); the PC is on battery backup, but could the surges cause the bad sectors?

*Bad sectors themselves are not a major issue unless they occupy an area on the drive where an important peice of data is located.
SMART will automatically relocate data away from bad sectors. But if you are seeing a trend to more and more bad sectors in a short period
of time, a replacement of the drive would be prudent at some point.
*You might also try running checkdisk with the “R” switch enabled. I doubt it will fix anything but it’s worth a try in any event.
*Your unlikely to have had bad sectors created as a result of surge protector that is functional and reliable, not to mention
one with working battery that can allow you to turn your computer off properly in the event of a power outage.
(If you live in an area where power outages are frequent, ensure your battery and surge protector is of high quality and in tip top working order)

I would get a new drive, as RG recommends, and have an up-to-date image ready to go when needed for restoring to the new drive.
Have the drive replaced by someone who is familiar and comfortable with doing so if you are not, stay and watch if able.
(This will be one of your best reasons for creating a bootable recovery disk).

For a new HDD I would recommend a drive that has 7200-10,000 rpm as a minimal speed, and keep the size down to 150-300 GB.
An SSD would be preferable, but if cost is a major factor then the above will do fine.

Avoid using large capacity HDD like the 1 or 2 TB drives for the primary boot drive. Go for smaller and faster boot drives and
purchase an extra large capacity internal drive (1-2 TB) for your storage needs.
(The rational for the use of smaller faster drives for your primary boot drive would be to restrict one from placing all their eggs into
on basket in the event of a failure. Alway keep images, as well as important data, stored on a different drive than the primary boot drive).

I’m going to get someone else to install it when it’s time as I don’t want to mess around in my PC’s innards, but want to have a new drive on hand as suggested. The number of bad sectors is up to 26, but the S.M.A.R.T. Vendor Specific values are all well within range. Sheesh!

For as long as SMART is able to realocate those bad sectors on the drive you will have a working drive. But as you have been observing trends toward more and more bad sectors it would be highly prudent to replace the drive now.

I’ve recently replaced several drives, one of which failed outright without warning (OCZ SSD boot drive), one that was on the verge of failing with serious raw read errors (2 TB storage), and several that where more than 5 years old that showed dimminished health and performance.

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All hard disc drives can have low level formats (NOT the normal FORMAT your are used to) done to them given you have the correct software for IDE and SATA available, and SCSI drives (all that I ever use) have a built-in routine in the Controller’s BIOS that can perform a low-leveling (DESTROYS EVERY BIT OF DATA ON THE DRIVE and is far more deadly to data than a common wipe or high level format) of the discs. Low leveling the drive re-magnetizes every sector and will fail out the sectors it can not do correctly using a read-after format routine, but it can usually recover a good percentage of the bad ones so designated by high level routines such as SMART, format routines etc. unless the media is physically damaged. Good drives can last a very long time, 5-10 years or more, IF power is maintained and they are normally run 24/7, however the magnetization does wear out on sectors that are not rewritten very often and sectors can start failing out due to this loss, and after a routine backup, or imaging or whatever should be done, then a low-level format is accomplished to renew the media and bad sectors do come back and re-reads pretty much go away once the data is reloaded to the newly re-magnetized media. High Level Format routines do not access the previously mapped out sectors at all so no recovery can be done using these routines. Hope this helps. As to SSD drives, they seem to have finite write issues so good luck with them. Additionally, I would recommend a small, say 40-60 GB boot drive that runs at 10K or 15K rpm for the fastest system boot times. Data drive size and speed is usually not as critical to machine operation unless you do a lot of video editing, or the like.

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Just got back to this … went to order the internal WD drive, but got stumped at the SATA cable … there were so many listed when I searched newegg and I couldn’t find the one you pictured.

Can you tell me how to determine which SATA cable to purchase to be able to install the new HDD in the PC?

Sorry for needing still more help!

Linda

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Get the same type of cable as the drive you plant to purchase. (SATA II or SATA III)
Also, ensure it’s length is aadequate to reach the drive from the motherboard’s SATA port.
You will also need a power cable, but your PSU should already have one.
It’s always a good idea to look inside the case and check beforehand.

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other option is one talked about earlier: buy needed hardware and hold until necessary, backing up faithfully elsewhere all the while.

No need to “hold onto hardware”, that’s just a waste of money. Always use it. You can also continue to use the 50% health drive too, just don’t completely rely on it.

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Here is the drive I’m going to purchase, one of the ones you suggested (thank you!): Western Digital WD VelociRaptor WD3000HLHX 300GB 10000 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5″ Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive.

I can’t tell if it’s a II or III. Nowhere on the product info page [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]can I see that. Duh! Can you help again?

It makes me a bit nervous, but I will open the case before final order: I’ve been putting it off but should be checking in there for dust after almost 2 years of use.

Linda (blushing)

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Linda,

SATA 6.0 Gb/s is, by definition, a III. Unless you have a “need for speed,” why not consider a slightly slower drive (e.g., 7200 RPM) with a larger capacity (although this seems like a good drive for your OS & programs)?

Zig

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Aha! Thanks, Zig. This is why the Lounge is so invaluable: you knew a 6.0 GB would be a III but I sure didn’t (although I now do!).

Reason for the drive choice is earlier recommendation from Clint. The choices are so vast and my tech/hardware skills so not vast, that I am following that recommendation. It certainly had great reviews.

This new drive will become my C drive; the OEM drive (50% health rating) will move to internal backup. Not at all sure if I will attempt these hardware feats – may get help from outside tech resources so I don’t mess up!

Appreciate your prompt response … and on a weekend.

Linda

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Western Digital WD VelociRaptor WD3000HLHX 300GB 10000 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5″ Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive.

SATA6.0Gb/s is SATA III/SATA 3.0

Your motherboard’s SATA ports will be in the lower left corner. The SATA cableyou get should easily reach your drive bays.

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You could pick any one labelled as a sata data cable (not esata as these are for external sata connections), (most are red but blue ones will do also) some come with straight connectors one end and right angled the other as Clint’s picture and others come with straight connectors both ends. It does not matter too much which one you pick unless there is not room for the right angled one in which case the one with two straight connectors would be safest.

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Thanks to you both. I sure appreciate all the help you are providing. Will definitely take the plunge and open the case to check on needed length. I do understand now where the cable has to go, i.e., from motherboard connection to drive bay. Can get reinforcement by seeing where the cable for the current drive goes.

Will post back with progress … and any more questions (I’m hoping only for the former!).

Linda

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Linda,

If possible, get the SATA cable with metal clips on the ends for better security of connection.

Zig

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Good hint, Zig. Thanks!

Linda

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