HARDWARE By Will Fastie I’m filled with angst about Microsoft getting out of the PC accessories business. PC peripherals of any kind are a very person
[See the full post at: Mouse quest]
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Mouse quest
- This topic has 49 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 10 months, 2 weeks ago.
AuthorViewing 41 reply threadsAuthor-
I’m not sure whether to call it ‘fortuitous’ or not (given Will’s mention of it in this edition of the newsletter – 21.17.0 – 2024-04-22 – it somehow escaped my attention in the earlier one) but just literally yesterday I was on (what used to be) the ‘Microsoft Hardware’ website and found to my abject shock that they had apparently and with no rhyme or reason exited their long-standing mouse, keyboard & desktop set business, seemingly a year or so ago. Like many others here, I had just assumed that they’d be in it pretty much forever, given that they sold 1 of the 1st mice ever mass-produced. Had they given a little warning I would’ve stocked-up, considering that my favorite item, the Microsoft Desktop 3050 Wireless Keyboard & Mouse Combo, does not seem to be on the Incase takeover product list. There doesn’t appear to be any found at 3rd party resellers either. It’s very strange that Microsoft would’ve decided to suddenly do such a thing after all these decades and equally strange that the industry reports of such a crazy and abrupt move would’ve been deemed so non-newsworthy that it was kept a de facto secret all this time. Again, my biggest complaint is that I had no chance to stock-up on my most-used computing accessory. I wonder why they did it?
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My set-up consists of four monitors, configured as one. So, effectively, I have one monitor of 7680 × 1080 pixels.
In the past, I preferred a trackball mouse. That mouse always remained in position and the cursor was moved with my thumb. Eventually, its functionality became wanting and I bought other mice, usually high-end ones. Over time, I developped a rather painful condition called Frozen Shoulder. It was the result of the ulna and radius in my lower arm continuously having to twist. Treatment of the condition required several injections and visits to the physiotherapist. Altoghether, it took about a year for the condition to wear off. I stopped using ‘normal’ mice and changed to using a vertical one. My first vertical mouse was from Evoluent and now I using an MX Vertical from Logitech. The condition never recurred, whilst the mouse is easy to use.
I don’t use touch screens and/or laptops. -
I am heartened to read that I am not the only one who still prefers a mouse to the touch pads on my laptops–although I also prefer cordless ones.
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The most likely reason that Microsoft got out of the mouse business is that the money and the growth was gone. I still used wired or wireless mice especially when editing graphics. I can see why some people use track balls but for heavy duty graphic editing some pointing device besides a touch pad or touch screen works best for me.
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Enjoyed reading your mouse quest article. Over the years I’ve tried numerous mice as you have. I have a box full of old models and they just take up room on the basement shelf. My favorite mouse is the one I’m using today even though it’s not in the best shape. It’s the Microsoft trackball explorer 1.0. What’s nice is that you don’t have to move it around and the trackball is manipulated by your index and middle fingers. One of the buttons on it doesn’t work and I haven’t tried to fix it. I have no idea how old it is, but it’s been in my hand most every day. It’s like a good friend working along side of me.
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When I read your original article I went onto Amazon and purchased a brand-new wired Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse v2.0, just exactly like the one I am currently using. Nothing at all wrong with my current one, but now I have a spare. There were not many in stock and new, unused ones will probably be impossible to find before long. I was not aware of what was going on before seeing your article. Thanks much for the info.
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Trackballs don’t work for me. Others in this thread also post that there is nowhere near the precision and control in a trackball as in a mouse. There’s a reason the mouse technology has been around for so long, while other user interface hardware has fallen by the wayside. And I’m with Will on laptops with touchscreens and touchpads. They just don’t allow the precision and control provided by a good, full-sized mouse.
-- rc primak
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Have you opened the new Logitech mouse to see if it has weights in it? I’m not familiar with that particular model, but added weights are a thing. Some people prefer a heavier mouse.
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I guess I am missing something, but how does a touch screen improve anything? I find it irritating as well as a waste of time to have to move my hand from the keyboard to the screen, back and forth, when working on a machine without a mouse. Then there is the fingerprint/dirty screen problem. Then they have glitches or stop working altogether. The only other pointing device with which I had any level of competency was the IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint, and I still preferred a mouse.
I, too, have my stash box of mice, because sometimes they just stop working or develop glitches with no notice, and I need to finish what I’m doing before stopping to troubleshoot the problem.
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I enjoyed your article, Will, and am sorry about the challenges you are having getting the right mouse to replace the ones you’ve used successfully for so long. Like you, I prefer a mouse to a touchpad, but have noted “younger users” looking at me as if I am truly out of it. Your comment about the precision of mice over touchpads/screens has given me an excellent way to respond to “why aren’t you using the touchpad?” question. Thank you!
As for Microsoft, sigh. Here we go again changing things that work well for, it seems to me, the sake of change! Or is it control?
Thanks for your articles,
Linda
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I have found that when a mouse starts developing problems with any of the buttons, the best thing to do is to replace the switch under the button. I salvage the little PCB mounted push button switches from other discarded electronics. Most of the time these salvaged switches are in good condition since they do not get pressed as often as a mouse button.
Some of the older mice have a switch with a metal lever, sort of like a mini Microswitch. eBay and AliExpress is your friend here. My favorite mouse is a Logitech and is over 30 years old. It’s been cleaned and re-switched several times since it was new.
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Hey Will- I have a Microsoft mouse, P/N X800898 connected to a KVM in my server room that gets very little use (I remote into my servers and seldom physically stand at the terminal). It makes no difference to me which mouse I use there. If this mouse is close enough to the one you’re familiar with, I’d be happy to send it your way gratis. Just message me an address to send it to.
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In the 90’s while using a mouse all day at work, I decided to alter wrist and arm movements while at home and I switched to a trackball. The switch was to a Logitech “Trackman Marble”.
About the “Trackman Marble”: https://www.zdnet.com/article/trackballs-that-i-have-known-and-loved-a-history-in-hardware/ “This is the original Marble, from about 1995, not to be confused with the later Trackman Marble Wheel, or the much later and very different Trackman Marble that Logitech is still selling today”.
Once the trackball learning curve has ended, I found a trackball to be much more to my liking than a mouse. This is especially true when computing from a recliner.
Originally and prior to the preponderance of trackballs in the marketplace, we had a computer cart that allowed a recliner to recline. A trackball could be positioned on the arm of the recliner; whereas, a mouse and its movement would have been all but useless!
The rest as is said, is history. We now have mouse-proof homes. I nor my family, have used a mouse since. In fact, my son is an IT professional and has several trackballs for various uses and no mice.
The first Logitech “Trackman Marble” was an index/2nd. finger actuated one. I’ve never liked thumb actuated trackballs. But a thumb-one wasn’t what I began using, so that’s probably the reason I prefer finger trackballs.
When the Logitech “Trackman Marble” that we began using was discontinued, we were unhappy to say the least. Thereafter we found other usable trackballs. More recently however, there have been several that are more similar to the “Trackman Marble”.
A site I found years ago, is a good reference site for trackballs: https://www.trackballmouse.org/
The brand and model of trackballs we are using follows:
https://www.trackballmouse.org/elecom-deft-pro-m-dpt1mrxbk-trackball/
For me, an even newer trackball has superseded the above Deft Pro trackball. It tends to fit my hand better, is rechargeable has various connection methods and is less costly than the Deft Pro. It is: https://www.protoarc.com/products/em03-trackball-mouse?variant=41021516152921
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sorry about the challenges you are having getting the right mouse
No need to be sorry.
I promised to update everyone on Mouse Quest. I did buy two “Blue” mice late last week via eBay and they arrived promptly. Both are cleaner and nicer than mine; one is pristine. The lesser of the two has the same blemish as mine on the thumb side, but dramatically smaller. It probably means that mouse is “almost pristine” because it was used less.
I’ll continue the quest, looking for the white and black mice. I now have four in reserve; I’ll stop when I have ten, after which I’ll hopefully enjoy the rest of my life, angst free.
I switched to a trackball.
This is hardly the first time I’ve heard of people switching to trackballs, and mostly for reasons of comfort. Perfectly reasonable, just as I think it’s perfectly reasonable for people to use nothing but trackpads if that makes them comfortable.
Although I never embraced trackpads, the one thing I did learn from them was that productivity and precision are on par with mice, possibly a bit better.
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I’d be happy to send it your way gratis.
Very generous of you. Thanks for the offer. I’m sure I’ll flesh out my inventory after living on eBay for a few months.
Mouse, shmouse
Nice to know you’re reading us, Lee.
Seven years later, however, there are fewer models of trackballs available. Even Logitech has fewer than they have even recently. I think they will be increasingly harder to find.
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replace the switch under the button.
I’ll have to remember that, and I’ll have to remember to keep the dead mice instead of tossing them.
Your username was obviously chosen well.
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I hesitate to recommend mice or keyboards, for which personal fit and feel are so key, because everyone’s mileage may vary, obviously. I still buy mice shopping in person at Staples, not online, so I can compare fit and feel on floor models.
While I bought many Microsoft mice and keyboards over the years and thought they were better than Logitechs back then, I now feel Logitech passed Microsoft by in build quality, durability, and performance at least five years ago. Current favorites among available-at-Staples mice include the Logitech Lift vertical ergonomic mouse (really helpful for those having any wrist discomfort using traditional mice) or for those with larger hands, the Logitech Master 3S ergonomic mouse, and for those who want to have a Bluetooth mouse that can operate, separately with a built-in switch button, up to three Windows and/or Mac computers, the more traditional feel Logitech M370 mouse.
I’ve never felt in control with trackball mice (or trackpads on laptops), but for those who prefer them, Logitech makes good ergonomic trackball mice as well.
Logitech keyboards are very good too, but I prefer the Roccat Vulcan keyboard for fast, accurate typing.
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Roccat Vulcan keyboard
Soon to be the Turtle Beach Vulcan II keyboard. The transition from Roccat to Turtle Beach seems to be in progress, as most of the keyboards are in “pre-order” status.
The Vulcan II looks very flat to me, with no curve from top to bottom. Flat seems to be everywhere today, but it’s hard on a guy who learned to touch type on an Underwood.
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This is hardly the first time I’ve heard of people switching to trackballs, and mostly for reasons of comfort. Perfectly reasonable, just as I think it’s perfectly reasonable for people to use nothing but trackpads if that makes them comfortable.
I totally agree Will. It’s what you get used to and are comfortable using.
Because no one could easily manipulate it, my wife liked using her trackball at work, which gave her a tiny bit of privacy.
Once we become accustomed to something, we tend to forget the learning curve needed to reach that comfort level. Hence, another confirmation of your what “makes them comfortable” comment.
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This is something that annoys me the most about MS. They jump into markets, they create products and services…suckering people in. Then, out of the blue one day they decide, “Yeah, not doin’ this anymore. Oh, you use that? We’re very sorry that it sucks to be you.”
I caught on to that gimmick a long time ago. I don’t use any of their hardware or services anymore. Only their software.
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Seven years later, however, there are fewer models of trackballs available. Even Logitech has fewer than they have even recently. I think they will be increasingly harder to find.
Actually Will, the opposite may be true. Being an avid trackball user for 29-years, I’ve seen an influx of new trackballs over the years, as can be seen in my above hyper-link: https://www.trackballmouse.org/.
As with your mouse dilemma, many trackball designs have been superseded or production halted along the way however. Because of that, when I find one I love, I now tend to buy an extra, just in case, as I did with a Harmony remote, when I caught word that Logitech was ending its production.
In fact, until recently, my previous trackball, this one: https://www.trackballmouse.org/elecom-deft-pro-m-dpt1mrxbk-trackball/ had to be ordered direct from Japan, which was possible thanks to Bezos’ Amazon. Since I first bought it a decade or so ago, it has become more readily available with other than Japanese instructions (grin).
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They jump into markets,
I’m not sure that’s entirely fair. Microsoft introduced its first mouse in 1983, 40 years ago. IBM got out of the PC business after only 25 years. Both moves were for the same reason: margin. Sure, it’s annoying for customers. But it’s hard to argue with the rationale, in either of these two cases.
I understand a certain resistance to change. However, it’s been a real treat to be part of the most dynamic period of technological advancement humanity has ever seen. The first computer I ever had my hands on (and the one on which I taught myself how to program) had 2,400 bytes (not a typo) of memory. Last week I bought a 64GB SD card for a camcorder for $19.
Henry Ford crashed the buggy whip industry. Change is inevitable.
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Will,
Are you sure your comfort issue is with the weight of the mouse?
I noticed that all three of the mice you show in Figure 3 are of a basic, simple design. Yet, the Logitech mouse has a more sculptured design, especially compared to the three Microsoft mice.
I have found that both the size and the shape of the mouse can very much impact how my hand feels after using the mouse. At least for me, I haven’t noticed that the actual weight of the mouse being a deciding comfort factor. (After all, you are sliding the mouse around, not actually lifting it.)
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Will, your observation about the weight of Loigitech mice got me curious. So I did an approximate weight comparison. My own Logitech mouse (inherited from a computer club colleague) weighs noticeably more than an Insignia Mouse I bought at Best Buy. Also, the no-name branded ones like iHome can be lighter in weight than the Logitech mice. I’m beginning to suspect the added weight is intentional, and some people seem to prefer it. The weight does definitely make the Logitech mice feel “sturdier”. But the price we pay for that illusion of durability is wrist fatigue.
-- rc primak
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weight of Loigitech mice
Mouse. It’s a sample of one. Not exactly scientific.
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Well now we have two data points. Not scientific either, but a possible trend.
-- rc primak
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Are you sure your comfort issue is with the weight of the mouse?
Yes.
sculptured design
It feels very good in the hand. I adapted to it quickly.
After all, you are sliding the mouse around, not actually lifting it.
Someday we’ll have some sort of virtual technology that will allow you to reach through the interweb and try the mouse yourself. For now, you’ll have to take my word for it – it’s harder to push the Logitech mouse around. It’s not my imagination.
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how come there wasn’t more ‘fanfare’ in the ‘Computer Press’
A couple of reasons, I think. One is that PC accessories are pretty far down the list, somewhere around number 1,673. The top 1,342 news items are about AI.
The other is that, technically, Microsoft didn’t bail but rather handed off the business to another entity. That’s a much softer story, especially to a younger generation of journalists.
Have you considered the effect of the relative stiffness of the cords and any differences in the “pull” required to move the mouse?
Most cords come coiled from the factory and so end up snake-like on the desk. That creates a certain amount of springiness, so I only notice the cord when it bumps against something else on the desk.
But in the context of the Logitech mouse vs. my old Microsoft mice, that factor is the same.
I can attest that there is a life after wrist and hand issues prevent one from comfortably using a mouse.
I haven’t used a mouse for at least 25 years and my daily driver is a desktop computer with four 27- inch monitors as a 2 over 2 quad display. That’s a lot of screen real-estate. No mouse, no problem.
I obviously use a USB keyboard with a built-in touch pad, but the real “secret” is use of advanced keyboard shortcuts. They now just second nature.
Examples: Push button and boot computer. Open my browser, open 3 other new browser windows (same browser). Flip them one to each screen. Open email and five or six other web sites split up over 4 monitors. Move to a second virtual desktop (I use 6 VT’s) and open other apps, move them to any screen, etc. All with keyboard commands. There are a ton of them. Everything on the start menu is quickly accessible without using a mouse.
I do all of this and a lot more without giving it a second thought.
Yes, I do have to use a pointer and use left/right click buttons, etc., but like a laptop my built-in touch pad us two inches down from the keyboard. And when I’m using the touch pad my wrist is straight.
Would I have turned into a keyboard shortcut nut if I never had wrist issues? Probably not, at least to this degree. But I can honestly say I do not miss using a mouse. It’s gone from a necessity to just clutter on the desk. Strange but true.
Desktop Asus TUF X299 Mark 1, CPU: Intel Core i7-7820X Skylake-X 8-Core 3.6 GHz, RAM: 32GB, GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050 Ti 4GB. Display: Four 27" 1080p screens 2 over 2 quad.
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advanced keyboard shortcuts
I just wonder if keyboard shortcuts will also fall victim to touch. I repeat myself, but Microsoft seems focused on touch, not on productivity.
However, maybe you’ve stumbled onto a way to make Microsoft take notice. You’ve identified an accessibility issue. Microsoft tends to pay attention to those.
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