Get wired performance from your Wi-Fi network

Topic

New Reply

	TOP STORY[/size][/font] Get wired performance from your Wi-Fi network[/size]
	By Becky Waring Although the Wi-Fi arms race isn’t going to let up any time soon, wireless can never be as fast and reliable as wires. So why fight it? Get the best of both worlds with a hybrid Wi-Fi and powerline network, perfect for streaming high-def video.[/size]

---

The full text of this column is posted at WindowsSecrets.com/2011/04/14/02 (opens in a new window/tab).

Columnists typically cannot reply to comments here, but do incorporate the best tips into future columns.[/td]

[/tr][/tbl]

Reply | Quote

Replies

I tried those power line adaptors a year or so ago and they did not work in my installation because I use a UPS to supply each computer with clean power. The filters in the front end of the UPS obviously killed the signals used by the these power-line adaptors. I found them little more than useless and threw them away. I can’t remember offhand which make they were but they were from a main stream supplier such as either Netgear or Belkin. This has been is my experience with them.

Reply | Quote

I don’t know if the Power Line Adaptors are different in the States, but in the UK, even though they are approved, there is a raft of data indicating that they create lots of interference to other equipment. Examples are Radio Hams, FM and DAB radios.

See recent example here.

Reply | Quote

The kit being used in the UK – given away by incumbent Telco BT – does not come close to meeting the performance requirements that restrict the interference caused to licensed wireless services.
The UK Government body charged with protecting the airwaves (OFCOM) have proved themselves impotent or ignorant, the jury’s out on that.
You can read more in these articles and their included links;

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/31/ofcom_plt/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/05/ofcom_plt_response/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/13/bbc_plt/

I won’t give houseroom to the present incarnation of PLT.

Alsy

Reply | Quote

While this method may be a solution in a few special cases, the major performance issue for the vast majority of single or multiple router users is interference from other wireless routers (including their own).

Search the list of available wireless routers and note which channels they are using.

There are 11 channels available in some countries and 13 channels in others. Many of these channels overlap. Therefore it is best to use the channels which don’t overlap, and which are not in use by other wireless routers in your vicinity.

The non-overlapping channels are either: 1, 6, or 11 or 1, 7, 13.

Or, you could use, for instance, channel 4 if it is available and neither channel 3 or 4 are in use.

If you are using multiple routers use different non overlapping channels, but if you must use the same channel space these at the greatest possible physical distance.

Note that some network adapters need to have channels 12 -13 activated to be able to use and see these channels. If you use channel 11, in a country where channels 12 & 13 are in use, and you have not activated channels 12 -13, channel 11 is a poor choice as it is not a non-overlapping channel there and will not give the expected performance.

BTW it is a good idea to search the list of available wireless routers in your vicinity on a regular basis and make appropraite changes to the channel(s) you are using, if needed.

Reply | Quote

I have a simple question, will the signals on one power circuit jump across to another circuit. Our house has three discrete power circuits and two lighting circuits.

Reply | Quote

Yes – provided that all circuits are connected to the same junction box (fuse box)

Reply | Quote

I have a simple question, will the signals on one power circuit jump across to another circuit. Our house has three discrete power circuits and two lighting circuits.

No. If the house has truly discreet wiring (known in the USA as Zoned Wiring) the signals will not jump from one circuit to the other. I have seen houses where this has proven to be a deal breaker.

Also note that signals cannot jump from one discreet phase to another. This is an issue in some older houses where there are two distinct electrical phases serving different circuits and the phases are not bridged.

A common junction (fuse or breaker) box does not in any way guarantee that the wiring is not zoned or phased.

@sunshinekhan —

Why would you want to run these devices on DC?

Regarding WiFi Channel Interference —

There are several free programs which can help you determine whether you have interference, and on which channel(s). My favorite is Xirrus WiFi Inspector (Info and download ) . When used properly, this can be a good tool for resolving this type of interference. Bonus — you can identify rogue networks and sometimes find, identify and geographically locate intruders on your own network.

-- rc primak

Reply | Quote

I hope, when you say “500Mbps powerline gear can comfortably deliver 40Mbps streaming 1080p video”, you really mean 40MBps… Also, are there any data showing how these things work when the house is running on emergency generator power?

Reply | Quote

As some previous respondents have said, networks using PLA devices emit high levels of wide spectrum radiations. The situation is particularly bad here in the UK because of our “ring mains” but the conventional domestic wiring used elsewhere still radiates. The 500Mb/s devices radiate well into the VHF bands. Have you asked your client to check out his FM radio reception? If he does he’ll have a shock, all but the strongest signals will have disappeared beneath the noise emanating from the PLA’s.
They should be banned but no one seems able to find an applicable specification.

Reply | Quote

I am able to sit in the lounge area of a large YMCA which has a wireless G network and watch Netflix movies without a hitch despite reduced signal strength and sharing the connection with other patrons. I’ve even been able to watch live-tv there with few problems.

I cover a multi-level 3,000 sqft home with 1 wireless N router and have streaming video everywhere including outside on the deck. All this while XBOX live is being played among other activities. I do use a directional antenna. I do scan my local spectrum using metageeks free inSSIDer to set my channel to the least congested. They also make a fantastic USB spectrum analyzer that will allow you to easily find sources of interference in situations like his.

So, why couldn’t this guy get acceptable performance? Bad routers? Bad design? Bad antennas? Metal wall studs? Lot’s of RF interference? I sure would like to know because there’s nothing inherent in what you described that would prevent him from doing exactly what he wanted with the equipment he had (maybe less even).

Reply | Quote

I have a very similar wifi situation but have another constraint that prevents use of a power line adapter. I’ve gotten rid of all landline phone service. However, since my alarm system requires a phone line (required by the city) I have to use an adapter that converts the power line into a carrier for a telephone system. Making my power system become both a phone line and an ethernet carrier is a bridge too far (parden the pun). The solution I found was to mount a “beast” antenna (Tranzeo EX2) on my roof. Now, everything works fine everywhere on my property!

Reply | Quote

I would never use a powerline network. It can cause considerable interference to other services, and fills the house with even more radio waves! This article shows what can happen. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/13/bbc_plt/

Reply | Quote

I live in an area that has frequent power outages. So I have had an automatic whole house generator (that starts up within 12 seconds of normal power going out) installed. Can anyone tell me if this installation would harm or hinder setting up a powerline network?

Reply | Quote

Since changing my internet and TV service providers to AT&T U-Verse and the installation tech provided me with two powerline adapters so I’d have a good connection to my computer which is in a different room from my TV, I cannot say I have experienced any interference issues. In fact, I use my Netgear Wireless N router in the back of the house for my laptop and smart phone. (AT&T’s gateway wireless is only G. Ugh!)

What I am curious is if anyone has found the Netgear Powerline AV 500 Adapter Kit XAVB5001 anywhere other than directly from Netgear? So far, I have only found XAV 5001 (no B) which I assume is a different part.

Reply | Quote

So what happends when someone stops by, which happends often with kids around, and they want to attach to your home network to access the Internet or print somethng?

I have 2 networks, one mine with all my stuff, one empty, nothing but an Internet connection. Then I don’t need to worry about someone that my son had over one day is going to attach to my real network, his passkey is only good for the Internet only side.

Reply | Quote

I have been using the (supposedly) 1Gig powerline adapters from Belkin and they work fine. There is no relation between the rated speed and actual, as you might guess, but they do work well enough to do anything you might want to do. But you MUST upgrade online to the current firmware. Then they work fine.

I will try the Netgear units next time I stop by Frys (love that return policy).

Reply | Quote

I read this article with a lot of interest. I too had wifi issues in my house in that two upstairs bedrooms and the downstairs kitchen had a very weak signal. I bought some 85mbps powerline adapters and they solved the problem after I connected another access point in the distant part of the house. The problem I have not found the solution to is that the adapters work in most of my wall sockets but not in all of them. A friend advised the non-working outlets were probably on a different “phase” and that I should buy a “phase bridge”. I was and still am clueless on what it is and how it works. Any information you could share on this topic would be appreciated. Thanks!

21Apr11: I just learned from another friend who has X10 gadgets that there is a bridge available. It somehow bridges the different phases. Although I have a lesser need for PLA, I shall keep this info. Here’s an amazon link for the bridge: http://www.amazon.com/SIGNALINC-PLUG-COUPLER-3-WIRE-DRYERS/dp/B0007UCAGU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1303394247&sr=8-1

Regards, RBG

Reply | Quote

I have used this method of networking in the past quite successfully until there was a severe power surge in my area. Since the use of a surge protector was not recommended with the device,
I regrettably did not use one. ( On the other hand all my computers are surge protected.)

The long and short of the story is that I ended up with a blown unit, as well as a burned out
motherboard. It seems like data is not the only thing transmitted by these devices.

Regards
czl

Reply | Quote

I bought the Netgear Powerline kit described in the article along with a Linksys WAP610N wireless access point. Both worked perfectly out of the box, and the room whose signal I was attempting to improve jumped from the usual “marginal” or “poor” to “very good” or “excellent”.

So far, so good.

Reply | Quote

I bought the Netgear Powerline kit described in the article along with a Linksys WAP610N wireless access point. Both worked perfectly out of the box, and the room whose signal I was attempting to improve jumped from the usual “marginal” or “poor” to “very good” or “excellent”.

So far, so good.

Where did you get the Netgear hardware from? Thx.

Reply | Quote

Have been using Netgear Powerline AV200 Wireless N Extender Kit for some time without issues. Now I need wired powerline and purchased D-Link DHP-501AV. Can I use the wired D-link and attach the netgear for continued wireless? Will they sync to each other? Or must I stay with one source for both wire and wireless?

Reply | Quote

Thanks for the terrific article Becky. I had no idea that there was such a thing as a power line adapter. I have been having some problems with the cordless phone knocking out the wireless so was thinking about going to a dual band router. Do you think the power line adapter would be better? Also, since I already use the power line for some X-10 security, do you know if there would be any overlapping or interference?

Reply | Quote

Thanks for the terrific article Becky. I had no idea that there was such a thing as a power line adapter. I have been having some problems with the cordless phone knocking out the wireless so was thinking about going to a dual band router. Do you think the power line adapter would be better? Also, since I already use the power line for some X-10 security, do you know if there would be any overlapping or interference?

I’m in the same boat….I use X10 to control about everything in the house and three outbuildings. I’d also like to know if this will cause a problem. It would be nice if someone could elaborate on the ‘theory of operation’ with the networking devices in this story. I know that X10 power-line modules send data at the ‘zero voltage cross point’ in bursts at 121khz…if memory serves correct. If the networking stuff uses the same technology, then they probably can’t coexist. I’m totally wired for now, but the thought has crossed my mind.

Reply | Quote

I’m in the same boat….I use X10 to control about everything in the house and three outbuildings. I’d also like to know if this will cause a problem. It would be nice if someone could elaborate on the ‘theory of operation’ with the networking devices in this story. I know that X10 power-line modules send data at the ‘zero voltage cross point’ in bursts at 121khz…if memory serves correct. If the networking stuff uses the same technology, then they probably can’t coexist. I’m totally wired for now, but the thought has crossed my mind.

Looks like it will work with X-10

http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=16658.0

However, as all us X-10 enthusiasts know, they can be temperamental.

Reply | Quote

Looks like it will work with X-10

http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=16658.0

However, as all us X-10 enthusiasts know, they can be temperamental.

Stuff too expensive to go out on a limb:)

They appear to be discussing an old technology in that link (500kbs not the newer 500Mbs discussed in the WindowsSecrets artical)…Since the posts are from 2007 and 2008 and the White Paper was for HomePlug version 1.0….Perhaps someone using the newer technology, if even available yet, will chime-in.

Still on the fence…….
:rolleyes:

Reply | Quote

Interesting article! I saw the mention of surge suppressors. I’ve got a surge suppressor on the panel on the outside of my house where I connect to the utility company’s power. Will that cause a problem?

TIA

Reply | Quote

Excellent article for networks with an initial hardwire connection. Can Wi-Fi signals, the signal strength, be improved throughout a household from a Verizon MiFi device? I live in a rural area where high-speed wired Internet service is unavailable. (btw, forget DUN) Thanks

Reply | Quote

What about heat? The last time I tried powerline adapters (Netgear), the units got very hot. Has the new generation improved heat disappation?

Reply | Quote

People in the UK may be puzzled by the term “PowerLine Adapters”, for they are commonly, and more succinctly, described as “HomePlugs“.

Lots of information from this UK supplier.

BATcher

Plethora means a lot to me.

Reply | Quote

My experience with Powerline Adapters:
1.
The stated speed has not relation to reality. The stated speed is the speed under ideal lab condition. The practical speed is about 1/3 to 1/7.
The obsolete 14Mbps adapter: I am an early adopter (due mainly to security). I had 6 of them. Practical speed varies from 3Mbps to 7Mbps, 4-5Mbps is the average. The 200Mbps adapter I presently use has at least 40Mbps, good enough to stream 1080p true Bluray video files one-way (no other traffic allowed).
2.
Never mix different speed adapters. If you do, expect speed goes down to the practical speed of the lowest speed adapter. Best is to use the same make, same model adapters.
3.
For performance, only the adapter should be on an outlet, even if you have dual outlets (as in the USA). If you must use the spare outlet of the dual outlet, use an extension cord as buffer. 3-4 feet extension is the minimum, I found 6 feet and beyond is better. Non-surge protector extension is a better choice.
4.
Each outlet, even on the same wall, has different speed performance. Best is try them. Of course, sometimes, location trumps speed.
5.
My experience with the obsolete 14Mbps adapter:
Even with a 3-feet extension on the spare outlet (of the dual outlet), it is zero speed(!), WHEN plugging a laptop AC adapter to the extension. The AC adapter uses switching regulator circuit to convert AC to DC. It generates enough dirty noise on the house wiring to kill the speed totally. Using a 6 feet extension helps. Plugging the laptop AC adapter on another AC outlet (even if on the same wall, but more than 6 feet apart), the speed is nearly normal. Also, when motor type appliance is powered on, such as vacuum cleaner, speed drops.
6.
My experience with the 200Mbps adapter:
With a 6-feet extension on the same spare outlet that shares the dual outlet with the adapter, the interference barely impacts speed. Ditto when even adding an AC adapter of a router. Seems powerline adapter has improved dramatically.
7.
Have not tried the 500Mbps yet. Expect 2X speed increase from 200Mbps device, and more resistant to interference.
8.
Heat problem:
The obsolete 14Mbps adapter has heat problem.
My 3 out of 6 burnt out due to heat damage. Could see the yellowish brown spots on the plastic case. Open it I could see even the circuit board turned dark brown. With this knowledge, I saved 3 with a modification. I drilled some small holes to release internal heat. (The case was originally airtight sealed.) I used self adhesive Aluminum tape (for heating duct) to transfer heat. I also used AL tape, to tape two metal plates as heart sink wings on both sides. The AL tape transferred heat from hot spots to the heat sinks. After the modification, the box was just warm. They still work today (over 2 years).
The 200Mps adapter has cosmetically hidden tiny holes. It is just warm to the touch. Never has heat problem.
9.
In a different house, I reuse the obsolete 14Mbp powerline adapters as conduit, connecting a security camera, IP-based network web cam, to the PC inside the house. I connect it to the powerline adapter with long Ethernet cable. Conveniently, I slice the cable open and use the 2 spare twister pairs for web cam DC power supply wiring. That is, a single Ethernet cable for both data and DC power. I get 2-4Mbps speed. Good enough for 1-2 jpeg files per second. Video would be too slow though.
This method allows me to avoid messy through-wall wiring. Can move them around too. All I need is an AC outlet on the outside.

My opinion:
1.
Powerline adapter is hardware based and OS independent. It is true plug and play, plus encryption. WiFi depends on OS and software drivers. (Linux may not have drivers for some wireless adapters.) Unless you need only open access, and do not want security, WiFi requires security setup via OS and drivers.
2.
Powerline adapter is less widely used. The default setup for encryption is less likely invite break-in. Change the default password and the signal is secured. Unlike WiFi, break-in requires a hard wire connect to house wiring (and may even need the same adapter type to boot). For WiFi, a person only needs to be nearby and detached, in his car, or on the street, for example.
3.
Electrical noise:
The signal from the powerline adapter is like mobile phone’s CDMA. It is also spread spectrum. The entire spectrum of the signal is like a low magnitude broadband noise. Difficult to ‘tune’ to it if you don’t know where to find it. Noise generated is on a par with mobile cell phone. The adapter is one better: the signal is confined internal to the house wiring.
As I mentioned, laptop AC adapter, and other AC adapters, creates more electrical noise than this. Appliance with motor is the worse. Recently USA electric power companies change to electronic meter (no more meter reader man). My house has one now. The electronic meter sends data to the power company via house wiring, transformers, and high voltage power lines. If you consider the long distance the signal has to travel, they generate more noise on house wiring, and over the air.
Powerline adapter is susceptible to electrical noise like WiFi. But powerline adapter auto adapts and moves to another frequency or phase for example. Since the 80Mbps models, they seem to successfully minimize the interference problem, if not solving the noise problem completely. The performance of my 200Mbps adapter, vs the old 14Mbps ones, demonstrates it.
4.
Nothing beats convenience than wireless, especially using laptop, tablet, and smart phone. However, reliable high speed for HD video streaming is not its forte. Having said that, the dual channel wireless router (2.4GHz and 5GHz) may have a chance. However, 5GHz cannot penetrate walls effectively, and it is only suitable for short distance (in the same room with no obstruction) … not to mention 5GHz is quite directional.

Disclaimer: I have no relation with powerline adapter makers, am only a subscriber and member of Windows Secrets. I use both powerline adapters and wireless.

Reply | Quote

Dear All,

Are there any devices available that can do the same thing as the home power line adapters, but with a 110V DC supply?

Regards,
SunshineKhan

Reply | Quote

There is one piece of critical info missing from the article – namely, you can only get the powerline adapters to work in those rooms which are electrically in the same phase (as determined by the circuit breaker panel); they won’t work if the rooms are located in opposite columns of the panel (which determines the phase). Powerline manufacturers don’t advertise this limitation.

Reply | Quote

Amen! I was waiting for someone which some real knowledge of household wiring to bring up this issue.

Most U.S. homes are served with 220 Volts (AC) on three wires, one of which is common. Half the house is connected to one “phase” (as these power rails are called), the other half is connected to the other phase.

Radio frequency signals on one “phase” will generally not transfer to the other phase, unless there is some connection between the two: If you have an electrical clothes dryer, or an electric range (both of which use 220V, so have three-wire sockets and plugs), then while they are on they will “bridge” from one phase to another.

So, how to you make sure there is a “phase bridge” all the time? You can do it expensively or cheaply. I choose the cheap way: I use a suitable capacitor; capacitors are, effectively, an “open” connection for direct current or low-frequency, so they’re benign. However, they allow alternating current through (like radio-frequency signals) pretty well. The higher the frequency of the operation (within reason), the better the capacitor does to pass the radio-frequency signal between the two “phases.”

Call your electrician and have a suitable capacitor (I use 0.1 microFarads rated for 1200 peak voltage) wired to the terminals in the back of the socket in the wall of your 220V appliance. That becomes the bridge.

You can also buy products that are a small box with a 3-pin 220V plug on one side, and a 3-Pin 220V socket on the other. You plug this into the wall, and then plug your 220V appliance into the socket. I believe Leviton makes one. Vendors that sell the X-10 home control system also have these on offer, because X10 suffers the same problem.

“Stumped” and “scaisson” are correct: The vendors don’t want to tell you any of this. In fact, if you call their Technical Support and complain their products don’t work, they’ll go to great lengths to explain that it is really “your” problem, not theirs, but I’ve never heard one (not ONE!) tell me about these solutions.

I was disappointed that this wasn’t mentioned in the original ariicle, but that’s what happens when “computer geeks” aren’t qualified to speak of electrical engineering practices; if you don’t know, you can’t explain it, so this writer just ignored the problem.

Reply | Quote

Just a comment about the idea of hiding capacitors or whatever in wall sockets on the house wiring. In my opinion, you should never hide such electrical and physical changes because one day you will sell your house to somebody and move on and you will have forgoten what things you have hidden away in the wall cavities. These will (possibly) become a problem for the new owner. There may be electrical safety issue you don’t know about, such as compromising the operation of electrical safety switches and such like. It may be fine for you to take that risk for yourself, but not for somebody else. I would put anything like this in plain view or in the circuit-breaker switch-box and labelled, so any electrician who comes to work on your (their) house wiring is forewarned about the changes. I’m just saying …. . Cheers. David.

Reply | Quote

Just to add to what Bob wrote, my favorite wireless checker is inSSIDer 2.0.

27793-inSSIDer-5-GHz
27794-inSSIDer-2.4-GHz

This is what my neighborhood looks like this morning.

Reply | Quote

Thanks for this particular column. I bought the powerline modules that you talked about and they work fine without a hitch. We only use laptops and after reopening them, the wireless ones took a noticeable amount of time to reconnect to the network but that was BEFORE the powerline modules – now instantly!!

My only question is – can I plug one of the modules in a house next door or is there a filter (transformer) somewhere that would prevent that??
Thanks.
jbs/

Reply | Quote

To answer a few questions, based on my experience on Powerline Adapters I am using:
1.
New high speed powerline adapter (200Mbps and up) is able to ‘jump’ over phase line for me.

I have 110Vac and 240Vac (USA system). I’m told the new much higher RF frequency jumps through the inter-coil copper winding capacitance in the high voltage transformer. And I’m told sometimes signal can travel up to several houses this way.
High RF needs only small capacitance. The higher the frequency, the smaller can be the capacitance.
2.
If the two powerline phases are truly independent (say, from separate high voltage transformers), you might add your own capacitors to bridge them. 0.01uF should be plenty enough. Make sure use 600V rating capacitors. Use 2 capacitors between 110V and the two 240V hot wires, and one capacitor between the two neutral wires.
I did it with 2 plugs, one each outlet (the 110V outlet and the 240V outlet). Inside one of the plugs houses the 3 capacitors. Then I connect the two plugs with normal 240V-rated house wire.
The most convenient place for the ‘bridge’ is the clothe washing room or the kitchen, where it has both 110V and 240V outlets.
Warning: this is extremely dangerous. Do not attempt.
3.
Powerline adapter does not like surge protector. This is because surge device has high capacitance that potentially shorts the RF signal.
4.
Yes, there is a direct link (via capacitor and the internal tiny transformer) between the 110Vac and the Ethernet data lines.
It is possible surge pulses could damage device connected to the powerline adapter. Having said that I have to say that holding a phone up during a thunderstorm could lead to electrical shock. This despite the extensive protection built into phone system.

My solution to protect down stream devices from surge:
Use a low cost switch or hub to isolate the powerline adapter from the PC. I have plenty of old 100Mbps hub lying around.
5.
There is no direct way to connect 100VDC outlet to powerline adapter, which is basically an AC device.
Possible solution:
Make a DC-to-AC converter for the powerline adapter to plug in. Us at least 6 feet wire between the converter and the powerline adapter, and at least 6 feet between the 100VDC outlet and the converter, for RF isolation. ‘Short’ the RF signal between the 110VDC outlet to the Powerline adapter, using 2 capacitors, one each on the two DC wires.
The 6-foot wire effects as high inductance for RF isolation. And then the capacitors shorts, or bypasses, the ‘inductors’ between the powerline adapter and the 110VDC outlet.
6.
Basic how it works:
Powerline adapter uses a tiny transformer to isolate the high voltage from the Ethernet data line pins for safety. It also provides power to the internal electronics.
RF, as high frequency, can go through the coil of transformer, to the 110Vac outlet.
It is critical that the path from the adapter to the 110Vac outlet is as short as possible. Best is not to use extension cord or intermediate plug. The electronics actually measure the outlet impedance. Then uses this information to match RF wave and signaling method.
It uses dynamic, on the fly, changes in frequencies, waves, and phases to optimize signal strength.

The outlet impedance and its RF characteristics are constantly monitored, for signal optimization

When noise suddenly shows up, such as operating a motorized appliance, the adapter quickly changes frequencies, phases, and modulation methods, to optimize signal speed and strength.

Reply | Quote

Just a follow-up if using capacitors bridging signals between electrical AC phases. As usual, be very careful.

The reason, I suspect (correct me if you have info) that USA uses 110V AC system is for safety, as compared to the more efficient use of copper in EU.
Electrocution by 110Vac is less fatal and thus less often than 220V system.

At 1mAac (but at 5mAdc) we ‘feel the electricity’. Fatal heart fibrillation can be triggered by as low as 50mAac,rms (but at about 300mAdc).

The choice, between 0.1uF or 0.01uF capacitor, as a signal bridge, is not just size matters, it is also the total current we may experience if we inadvertently touch the copper wire. (For EU, this is moot as they always have 240Vac).

Our skin resistance is about 2K Ohms. 110Vac is right at the limit of lethal current. (110V/2k=55mA). So we need to choose the capacitance to isolates the 240Vac as much as possible.

0.1uF impedance is 1/(2pi*freq*cap)=26.5K Ohms at 60Hz. At 240Vrms, it passes 9mA. But 240V is rms. Vpeak can be 240Vx1.4142=340V. Then the peak current would be 13mA. Not a small number.

0.01uF will be 10x smaller: 4.5mArms and 6.5mApeak.
That is, if you use 0.01uF, and you touch the copper you barely feel the ‘bite’.

Now look at the impact of signal passing capability:
The impedance of 0.01uF at 50MHz = 1/(2pi*freq*capacitance) = 0.32 Ohm. (At 100MHz it would 1/2 or 0.16 Ohm.)

Assume we ‘abuse’ the dual AC outlet where the the Powerline Ethernet Adapter is using, say, plugging in an inappropriate load together with the Adapter. The impedance at the AC outlet could be as low as 1 Ohm. (This 1-Ohm is the low limit used by the old 14Mbps Adapter.) You can see that the AC line itself can still see 75% of transmit power from the Adapter: 1 Ohm/(0.3+1 Ohms).

If we use 0.1uF, the capacitor impedance is 10x smaller, at 0.032 Ohm. The AC line sees 1/(1+0.03), or 97% of the transmit power.

There, you pick your pick.
0.1uF gives you a ‘bite’ if you inadvertently touch the copper. But you maintain nearly no-loss transmission power from the Adapter at worst impedance loading.
Should you choose 0.01uF, the ‘feel’ is the same as the 110V AC line (even though now you have 240V in the circuit). But you lose transmission efficiency, only 75% is left. But this is in worst case analysis when the AC outlet presents an 1-Ohm impedance.

Reply | Quote

@cyclone3211, sorry for the late post. I only occasionally check old threads.
I would suggest use the faster 501AV on first leg, then connect the AV200 to 501AV.
I do not know too well on these two devices. There a few Powerline protocols still exist. That is, they may not be compatible and won’t talk. Hope yours are compatible.
Because they are different brands, the different default setups render not being plug and play. To make them communicate, follow their instructions. Once they talk, it is as if they are connected with network cables.
For true plug and plug, and rid of software installation and setup steps, use same brand. It seems more important for powerline adapter. I guess each maker has its own recipes even if the base system is the same. (Just like different makes of same type of car, say, sedan: one is sporty and the other is gas miser.)

Reply | Quote