Here’s a very down-to-earth description of Windows 10 and how it’s being upgraded. Coming soon on InfoWorld.
[See the full post at: Cut through the bafflegab of Windows 10 versions, branches, updates and builds]
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Cut through the bafflegab of Windows 10 versions, branches, updates and builds
- This topic has 84 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 8 years ago by
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AuthorViewing 21 reply threadsAuthor-
Journalists must love MS for Windows 10 – so much confusion you can write a few articles every day :).
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This is actually a much, much more serious issue than a jest.
I once wrote in the preface to my book that there is an incentive for complexity entrenched in the IT industry. Simple, easy to use things do not require so much training, books, consulting, articles and so on — they are not as profitable as confusion as complexity. Given this coupled with the fact that publishers and editors are not in the business of selling content to readers, but readers to advertisers who create the confusion and complexity, why should anybody expect journalists to criticize the advertisers rather than “helping readers” with the mess they create? Witness Woody’s instinct to transfer much of his stuff here after Infoworld was acquired.
The trade media has a HUGE inherent conflict of interest.
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Sorry, I was away (scheduled doctors appointment). Yes, they’re the same article.
Little known fact: Almost all authors have the titles of their articles (the “hed”s) modified by editors during the editorial process. Happens all the time.
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I want to use Microsoft’s Media Creation Tool to create a bootable usb drive containing Windows 10. How do I know which version of Windows is being transferred to the usb drive? I prefer to have the Anniversary Update version 1607.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
Tom Harmon1 user thanked author for this post.
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Have a go at the process and you will see how it handles things. you will know what your downloading.
My suggestion is, put the ISO on disk in a .iso file. that will give you allot of flexibility for handle your ISO from vDVD(Virtual DVD that can be Mounted in memory with Right Click on the ISO) and other ways.
One can put it on a USB Drive or other Bootable device after with, Rufus, an invaluable Tool for ISO’s.Rufus – Create bootable USB drives the easy way
http://rufus.akeo.ie/--------------------------------------
1. Tower Totals: 2xSSD ~512GB, 2xHHD 20 TB, Memory 32GB
SSDs: 6xOS Partitions, 2xW8.1 Main & Test, 2x10.0 Test, Pro, x64
CPU i7 2600 K, SandyBridge/CougarPoint, 4 cores, 8 Threads, 3.4 GHz
Graphics Radeon RX 580, RX 580 ONLY Over Clocked
More perishable2xMonitors Asus DVI, Sony 55" UHD TV HDMI
1. NUC 5i7 2cores, 4 Thread, Memory 8GB, 3.1 GHz, M2SSD 140GB
1xOS W8.1 Pro, NAS Dependent, Same Sony above.-----------------
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Well written, Woody.
From 10+ years lifespan to 2 years. But it’s even worse than that – presuming the lifespan of each new release is roughly the same, each new version will “expire” less than a year after the prior one expired.
Does ANYONE who needs computing for serious work think that’s okay? Or even workable?
Given a 3 year release cycle and a 10 year support lifespan, in the past one could skip a version on a given machine if that was prudent, even TWO versions in a pinch. And lo and behold it WAS prudent occasionally.
Now, you *might* get 2 years on a given system if it happened to have been upgraded right when that Windows 10 version was released.
Newsflash, Microsoft, we need to do work on our computers for a while after futzing around with them for months to get your operating system working. Life is NOT all about configuring each new version of Windows.
Seriously, I’ve put polish on Windows installations literally for a year or more before they were settled down into something worth using. Then used them for years more. Now we don’t even get that year.
Business use has been the cornerstone of Microsoft’s success, no? What are they smoking in Redmond?
-Noel
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W10 strikes me as having excessive complexity about sub-versioning and support options. There seems to be enough confusion and chaos to keep the average and many knowledgeable users thoroughly confused.
1 user thanked author for this post.
Furthering my “rant” above, I actually HAVE been polishing up each Windows 10 release for my particular business use (software engineering) – even though I’ve not chosen to adopt it for my hardware systems.
On average – I’ve kept notes – it has taken 5 to 6 months to get each one in order.
That’s based on installing each new version when it’s released to the public. Let’s knock a couple of months off that by hopping on the Current Branch for Business and it still means that each new release, now running about every 9 months, will need half its lifetime to get into shape to be worth using.
It has always taken months to get a version of Windows into shape. Many businesses didn’t even CONSIDER adopting a new version until after the first Service Pack – remember that?
4 months of setting up and polishing a configuration for a purpose was workable when the usable life was 36 months – 11%. But half the lifetime of the OS? Seriously?
This isn’t theory. I’ve BEEN THROUGH IT with all the Windows 10 releases so far.
Microsoft’s mistake with the whole concept of WaaS is that they believe they deliver something worth using right out of the box. That has NEVER been the case, and – given they’ve laid off their professional testing people and are oriented more and more now to fun ‘n games – is arguably LESS the case now than ever before.
-Noel
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Why does it take 4/5/6 months to tweak settings?
You apparently have little connection to the tweaking community.
Why? Because Windows isn’t complete for my needs until it can be reconfigured and augmented with 3rd party software in ways that Microsoft doesn’t see fit to support.
Windows 10 desktop integration and usability completely stinks without a bunch of changes and 3rd party software. Not all of that software is ready and stable right away after Windows is released. Some of it takes months to be polished up by the authors. Some of it I have to write myself.
Microsoft undoes things with each new release, and discovering them all isn’t easy. For example, I choose not to run ANY Apps. Microsoft is busily making it harder and harder to remove them all. Sorry; it’s my choice. It takes some time to figure out how. I remove a lot of other junk that Microsoft’s loaded it up with too, and the details have to be worked out.
It also takes time to test and determine which are the settings that deliver proper performance and reliable operation.
And let’s talk about privacy – I don’t accept that Windows has to send anything about what I’m doing to anyone online. It takes time to ferret all that out and put a muzzle on it.
Microsoft doesn’t deliver perfect software out of the box (hence the .693 part of 14393.693). That’s the part I’m willing to knock off by choosing the CBB, but the reality is that it’s not so easy. I’d still have to start doing the work on the .0 version so that I’d have a good configuration ready for the promotion to CBB.
From where I sit Windows has a really good kernel, and Explorer can be pretty good to use, but the garbage Microsoft has been hanging all over the system has to be cleared away to get to a tight, slick set of integrated software that promotes real work.
At one time Microsoft provided a whole lot of configurability to support this. Now that’s just evaporating and it seems all they’re interested in doing is being an App Store and loading the system so up with junkware that even a powerful computer is challenged.
My Windows 10 configuration, just to be equivalently functional as my Windows 8.1 config, and my Windows 7 config before that, has to be ABSOLUTELY:
- Secure.
- Lean.
- Private.
- Reliable.
- Elegant.
- Efficient.
- Productive.
- Under control.
If you think Microsoft even gets CLOSE to that out of the box then you may not realize what Windows on a modern computer system is really capable of.
Given that I’ve ALREADY achieved all of the above and then some to my satisfaction with each of the older operating systems, I have no reason to stop short or lower my expectations for a new system.
You might wonder if I’m eccentric or have unreasonable expectations or want weird things from an OS. Nope. I’m a career software engineer and businessman who just wants what everyone wants: An OS that does what I want and need to get my work done with adeptness and excellence.
I’ll wager I’ve accomplished that as well as anyone, and I can tell you that Windows 10 out of the box has been moved further from that ideal than any other Windows system ever released. And there’s no end to the madness at Microsoft in sight, so I believe Windows 10 will ultimately fail.
I used to think that Windows would never be a bad system for software engineering, because Microsoft’s own people have to use it to develop their own software and would of course keep it solid for that. It didn’t occur to me that they’d just stop developing good software.
I’d love to see how tweaked some of the systems inside Microsoft are.
-Noel
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Your mention of “Cptr dummies” got me to thinking…
Microsoft seems to be catering to a crowd that messes up their Windows installation inside of 6 months and thinks the OS requires reinstallation over and over again. They probably demand most of the attention of the service organization or the answers forum.
Some of us don’t do that. A lot of us I think.
Some of us maintain our systems so that they stay solid and run efficiently for the long term. On my own personal workstations going back well over 20 years I installed NT 3.5 once, NT 4 once, Win 2000 once, XP once, XP x64 once, Vista x64 once, Windows 7 x64 once, and Windows 8.1 x64 once. Once set up properly these systems “just worked” and allowed me to concentrate on the things I expected to DO with my computers.
As it turns out on my Win 10 test system I’ve only actually needed to install Windows 10 x64 builds 10240 once, 10586 once, and 14393 once too… And now we’re about to get a fourth one – inside of 2 years!
All this boils down to Microsoft “dumbing down” everything about Windows so that it can’t rise above what the lowest common denominator user uses it for!
-Noel
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This should apply esp for cptr dummies.
When cptr dummies buy new cptrs, they want their cptrs to run stably for the long term with minimal intervention from them, eg being dumb-strucked by updating and/or upgrading bugs or the need to reinstall the OS.
Agreed. However, with Windows 10 Home and even Pro, that is no longer possible. As Noel said, “dummies” will also have to deal with reinstallations every 6-9 months. And if there are problems (1607 told us there WILL be problems), how are they going to deal with that?
Is Microsoft purposely angering their customers (home and business) and trying to drive them away? I would have thought it impossible just a few years ago but the current Microsoft leadership under Satya Nadella seems to me to be doing just that.
Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.
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“Microsoft doesn’t want you to install the LTSB version.”
“If you put Office on a machine or run a browser, Microsoft specifically doesn’t want you to use LTSB on that machine.”
So Microsoft does not want me to use LTSB if I want to use Windows 10 “normally”?
Luckily I don’t have to use Windows 10 and Office 2016 at this moment. But, if I were ever forced into Windows 10, it will be LTSB only. And I WILL use Office on it if I were ever forced to. As far as I can see, Office 2016 works fine on LTSB.
So, sorry Microsoft, but these statements mean absolutely NOTHING to me.
Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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@ Noel
Seems subscription-based Win 10 Ent E3 & E5 are not allowed by M$ to convert to LTSB, ie only companies who hv bought or rented Win 10 Ent E3 & E5 Volume Licenses(= long term contracts) are allowed by M$ to convert to LTSB.
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Now, if I’m understanding correctly, regardless of it being version 1507 (10240) it will still get security updates. I’m using WSUS to keep these “test” machines updated.
That’s my understanding as well – but note that we’ve never seen this in action.
MS has started drawing a distinction between LTSB 2015 (the new name) and LTSB 1507 (the old name). My guess – and this has been implied, but not stated as far as I know – is that future security patches, after May, will be directed to LTSB 2015, and not Win10 1507.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Well, not really – look at how Start menu, which is a BASIC functionality, has changed after AU. Same goes for Settings/Control Panel. Control Panel shortcut from right-click on Start is also to be removed with the new update (what I actually show is CUTTING on features, not adding them). It’s rather like putting your steering wheel in a different place each version. And looking at the direction it’s going – we’ll end with the steering wheel placed in the trunk.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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@ b
Fyi, those 4 links that I found were on just the 2 latest pages at answers.microsoftdotcom, out of hundreds of pages about Win 10 updates, backups and recovery.
IOW, there are many more reported borked Anniversary Updates/Version 1607 at that website and also many more unreported ones.
Who wants to go thru all that new sheeet/changes every 8 months or so.!?As time goes by, eg in 2019 or 2020, problems with upgrading to new versions of Win 10 every 8 months or so will only get worse bc of older non-compatible hardware and software.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Funny thing, I want my current features to work, not to have them disabled by “newer” or “better” things. I don’t want to have to reset my settings every four months, and I want settings that give me control over my operating system and computer. I want to decide which “features” to add and which to delete when I don’t want them. That would be better for me… Consumer Elly
Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter
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I had this discussion about IE starting much faster than Firefox years ago, before Chrome even existed.
The reason is that IE has always been integrated with the OS (at least since IE 4) and the core dlls launch at boot time. This has nothing to do with the user session, but the system components.
Firefox on the other hand and supposedly Edge now, do not have this unfair advantage and take a while to load.
This behaviour has nothing to do with browsing benchmarks, but contributes to the perceived user experience a lot. -
Yup IE was/is baked into the OS giving MS the monopoly in the browser wars years back, until they were forced to offer alternative browsers.
Wonder why isn’t that still applicable today?If debian is good enough for NASA...1 user thanked author for this post.
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I think you should read every time you activate Windows 10 it will be supported for ten years after its release
There’s quite a disparity between “supported for two years” vs. “supported for ten years”.
The only reason I can possibly imagine for all this being as obfuscated as it is comes down to incompetence. It’s not “brilliant Marketing” in any sense I can detect.
It’s MOST CERTAINLY incompetent to mess with the very things that made Microsoft the go to company for business software – which is, make no mistake, where they’ve made the lion’s share of their money.
-Noel
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It is done with the purpose to prepare end-users to understand that the only way to have a secure and up to date system is to have it maintained by experts.
And here comes the Cloud to save us…This quote and the one above it by ‘fp’ hit the mail on the head. They are looking to take advantage of the new ‘disposable’ society. PC won’t work? Buy another. Tired of buying another? Let me sell you this cloud PC, simple as a television…
It is the same thought process as buying a new smartphone every year…, and will be popular with the great masses who have no idea how anything works.
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Now if MS was smart, they would offer two new versions and charge a premium price.
MS Windows Classic LTS (Win7 GUI and Long Term Support for 8 years with a 4 year Service package);
and the new Secure Windows Privacy Edition LTS with all telemetry having an in-the-OS, on-the-HDD, on/off switch (not a cloud console like Win10), and a EULA guaranteeing MS will not collect data or send ads via their OS and its components. Also with 8 year support with a 4 year Service Pack.
I would pay at least as much as I paid for Win7Pro-64 for those options.
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If MS were smart, they would know how to make money by attracting users, not by fighting them tooth and nail.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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So, they have a product. They have customers that want the product. But they don’t want customers to have the product because they want to exploit them. Definitely sounds like they have gone to the dark side.
Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter
It’s a big improvement for users to get new features every eight months instead of every four years.
I think you may be confusing operating system features with applications. There have been woefully few of the former, though lots of the latter (but not all that good).
An operating system needs to be stable for years to be a foundation for the new applications the world develops – and those take time.
Surely you don’t think Microsoft is developing applications of a class to rival what the best of the world is doing and has done.
Regarding improvements to actual operating system features, please name some. I’m a pretty demanding computer user and I just haven’t seen a whole lot of positive change in that area.
Where are improvements in color-management?
Where are improvements in the file system?
Where are improvements in the desktop and user interface?
Where are improvements in system manageability?-Noel
May I add that if Microsoft was upgrading the underlying OS functions better instead of messing up the GUI because that flashes NEW to people’s face, it would help a lot? Also, if the added features were easy to disable as a whole when you don’t want them without having them so embedded in the system you risk breaking functionality, it would be nice too. If the new features on AU didn’t mean moving the old special folders like Documents to a different partition didn’t suddenly made Cortana unable to find your documents in her Best Match tab, it would also be less bad.
New features every few months? New problems every few months. If most businesses waited for the first Service Pack to deploy in the past or often skipped a whole version of Windows, there was a good reason: stability, and for most, that trumps featuritis.
We need a better separation between the basic OS and the features/apps parts. I have no problem with upgrades that would add non-disruptive basic OS functions like REFS, support for newer hardware, things that don’t change the user experience, if done properly. I don’t even care if you introduce 3D apps I can easily uninstall without making some other OS function relying on it break if I could just easily push a config file that automatically takes care of all that, after reviewing what new features were added.
Maybe you can manage features updates well in your big company and have it done in a very short time for users, but do your users love the changes? Do all users love the changes? It is a very different concept: having it easy for you to deploy, not making the users suffer the upgrade process by keeping it short and having the users actually very happy to see all the changes in the OS is a different story. If I was a user and suddenly after this nice easy upgrade all my searches went to Edge when I had configured Firefox as my default browser, I would be mad. Some Users might be happy, some not and that also depends which version of Windows you have and how clean you made them before deploying.
It is possible only the powerusers are angered by that kind of changes and most users don’t really play with Windows that much anyway and they don’t care as long as their apps still work and not change too much (think Office ribbon), but from echoes I got from home users after some Win 10 updates, they were mad because all their “Google stuff” suddenly disappeared and had been replaced by the Bing or Edge thing, lots of new apps and games popped and they didn’t know why and thought they got some virus, etc. They saw tons of apps appear that they had no idea what they did and were wondering if they would break something if they tried to uninstall them, they were worried they were taking too much space. That was their experience on non-enterprise managed PCs. They found their PC even less intuitive to use. Maybe it is only anecdotal, maybe it is representative of the experience of a lot of folks. I would not be surprised a lot of people who didn’t know what they were getting into when they upgraded/bought a Win 10 PC will have this as their last PC and it will take a few years to see the impact of this.
Apple is a lot better on IOS in this regard. They introduce a new feature, it has its own tab in settings, easy to disable everything if you have no use for it. If you do, they tell you what you miss, but it is not a deal breaker. Your apps knows it can be off or on. They don’t or shouldn’t expect it to be on. Often, they ask after the upgrade if you want to activate this feature. 1-2 hours after a big IOS update and you pretty much covered everything new, once a year, and updated your install procedure.
Yes, IOS is much simpler, but still, the idea is there, it is an inspiration. There should be only one spot where all the settings can be easily covered and enabled or disabled as a group per category. Maybe there is hope. Maybe that is what they are trying to accomplish with the new settings app, slowly moving everything from the control panel there, but right now I see mostly a dumbed down version of the Control Panel.
I don’t have a problem with the multiple ways to get to Rome approach where right-clicking everywhere in the OS can bring you to the appropriate settings section. However, I think it is mandatory that all possible settings can be easily found in one spot so if you don’t want to use all the paths to Rome, you don’t have to. Do I really have to start typing a search expression after pressing the Windows key for the cog wheel of Cortana to appear (which is not the same as the cog wheel of Windows settings when I only press the Windows key and don’t start typing) and have access to some semi-hidden settings of Cortana to forget my history of search that are not in the new settings menu? Baaad! I ask for two principles, Microsoft:
1) Easy access to all settings in one place even if I don’t use the group policy, normal user friendly, easy opt-out of all related features and the new related ones you might invent next version. If I said no I don’t want Cortana to know me, don’t add an hypothetical “Share my most used files list with Cortana so she can help me better” or “Remember my searches and sync them across computers” setting enabled by default in a a new version of Windows. Be coherent with different types of users, earn trust.
2) Easy saving and restoring of settings so that I can help friends easily pushing my list of settings to them, prepare different scenarios for different types of users, and have those saved settings used and converted properly by later versions of Windows as if I had done an in-place upgrade. Stop resetting privacy tweaks or changing their names when you do a feature update.
You underestimate the importance of maybe your most important evangelists, Microsoft, the power users who help their friends. Make their job impossible and you might get everybody thinking it is too much trouble, but maybe that is what you want so you can sell the cloud OS with your “let’s leave it to us professionals, it’s too hard for you” approach. Maybe you are right and you will make tons of money, or maybe your evangelists will start selling a better free idea at some point.
I don’t know about you, but when I configure Windows 10, I have to always reach settings by typing words I know like “Save” that will bring up a search result with a sentence like “Save and restore (Windows 7)” so that I can then click on “Create a system image” on the left after bringing up the Save and restore control panel. If I didn’t know it was there, I wouldn’t even know you can create a system image in Windows. If I type “image” in Cortana, it doesn’t find the system image function. Simple does not mean scattering and hiding features everywhere because it is too much for the user to absorb. Is it that hard to have a basic panel, then an advanced settings for each where you are not condescending and don’t explain the settings with technical terms because it could be confusing to people who won’t even look there? It is not normal to need to read technical documentation about managing computers in big businesses to understand what some settings do.
One problem with MS is not the change in the OS most important features, but that they mess around everywhere and add new settings or bloated features that you would probably want disabled or not enabled by default for privacy, productivity or security reasons if you could find the way to do it, when it is possible.
Another problem is they seem to think that consumers just want flashy stuff and security is optional and should be only given to big businesses. And also that small businesses are consumers that just wants to play games at work. How can they justify that only Enterprise version users gets some of what they say are the greatest security advances? So security is not important to small businesses and home users? And only Enterprise version have some privileges to remove non-business c***?
I don’t know about others here, but there was absolutely nothing that got me excited about the different Windows 10 feature updates. I have no use for their new paradigm on the desktop. I might have had a small joy seeing they added an option to set the color of the active Window title to a different color than inactive Windows so it works more like previous versions when AU was out. When the nicest updates are features to make the OS behave more like previously, it is not that great. And I am scared at some point I will be forced to use a Metro app.
They ported REFS newer versions too, which is nice, but that is not the kind of changes that will be disruptive to anybody. What I still don’t know is if Win 8.1 can read my newer REFS drive from AU because the original REFS versions in Windows 8 and 1507 are older.
I loved the new WIN-X feature from Windows 10, the command prompts improvements are nice, but those are not disruptive features.
The problem is disruptive features and bugs. It goes beyond failed upgrade processes.
Sorry to be so harsh on you Windows, but if I do, it is because I love you so much.
3 users thanked author for this post.
You haven’t been tweaking Windows for 40 years. Even DOS isn’t that old.
No but that’s not what I said. Please read more carefully.
I HAVE BEEN working with real operating systems going back before Microsoft was conceived. I was into the internals of RSX-11 and Vax/VMS before Dave Cutler dumbed that technology down to become Windows NT. Because of Microsoft’s shortcuts it took decades for that architecture to be solid again. The Vaxes I used didn’t crash!
And I HAVE BEEN working with Microsoft OSs since there was a Microsoft. I had a division of Engineers collaborating and doing things integrated with Windows 3.11 for Workgroups that some businesses only now are discovering.
So why do you keep doing it? You’ve apparently spent 18 months tweaking Windows 10 releases knowing that it’s going to get wasted after a couple of months (and you don’t even use it anyway). If you must tinker with it you would be better off restarting with the ISO release for a clean install each time, according to what you just said here.
My intent is to adopt the new OS if Microsoft ever makes it good enough. I need to know whether it’s gotten there or not for myself.
And I hate to say it, but I’m not going to stop striving to get them to make it good enough.
Heck, I don’t work on it full time for 4 months. My host system is powerful and stable enough that I can be dabbling with my Win 10 virtual machine setup at the same time as doing real work. A lot of that calendar time is waiting for things that used to work to come out in versions that work again, or for people to discover how to make something work again that Microsoft has broken.
Not my users. They’re reasonably happy with Windows 10 just as it comes. So am I.
It’s simple if you don’t tweak the c**p out of it (beyond a few group policies for business use).
To each his own. I don’t settle for “reasonably good” when excellence is possible. Why on Earth would I degrade an already excellent working environment just because you or Microsoft think I should lower my expectations of what a new version of an Operating System should be?
Did you ever stop to think why “Make America Great Again” has “Again” in it? It has to do with excellence.
-Noel
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