CD-R/RW as

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When I burn CDs, I usually just pile up 700MB worth of items and burn it – done.

What I am looking for now is the ability to add data to a CD as I need, like one would do with a floppy.

Is it possible to continually add data to a CD until it is full, and without having to re-add what I’ve already put on it? And can this be done only with CD-RW only and not CD-Rs?

I seem to recall Adaptec having Direct CD software that you could do something silmilar. I would like to know is if what I’ve outlined is possible and what software, not including any Adaptec/Roxio packages, can do this.

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You can, but, only with RW’s and most can NOT be read by another cd reader until it has been closed using the burner that it was burned on.

DaveA I am so far behind, I think I am First
Genealogy....confusing the dead and annoying the living

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Thank you for your reply.

Having been using the resident software on XP to burn CDs, I’ve been without options to open/close CDs and thus am without the knowledge of open/closed sessions and related terms and procedures.

I desire to to create CDs for storage and/or backup of different items, e.g.,one CD for progz, one for documents, one for images, etc., and add to the respective CD until the compilation of media is full.

Excluding Roxio products, what progz make this task simple as could be expected to do just that?

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I use the simple software that came with my HP 8200 (HP RecordNow, Version 3.5), works great and does what I need. I have not wasted any money on buying a third party program when what I have works. What software can with your burner?

DaveA I am so far behind, I think I am First
Genealogy....confusing the dead and annoying the living

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The software that came with my burner was a useless app called ‘Drag ‘n’ Drop’, a scaled down half-version of the Easy CD Creator. It had horrendus conflicts with XP and had to dump iot. Then I tried EZ v4 and then EZ v5 and Roxio’s drivers gave XP heck (or the other way around) which is baffling because the native XP software is made by Roxio.

I would like to simply drag a file to the CD drive and continue to do so as needed as one would a floppy. I would rather not purchase another app and figured there may be free software to do this simple task. I don’t need all the other effects and equalizers and etc. that seemingly come with the Music burning progz.

Anyone have any suggestions, please?

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Recently I purchased a new Sony CDRW drive and it came bundled with B’s Recorder Gold. I was somewhat skeptical because of the name (funny how you tend to make preconceptions about the book based on the title or the cover!), however, I have found that it works great with W98. Even converts MP3 on the fly to wave files before burning to disk, drag and drop MP3 to the disk section, and it converts before it writes (although I did notice a lockup once when burning MP3s with less than 128kps quality-not sure if this is the culprit or not). Other than that, seems to work flawlessly for me. Guess a Google search might turn up somewhere you could get a trial version or buy it.

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Hi, Mike ~

Thanks for your quick response. I looked into what you suggested and that seems to be geared more towards music files. I am seeking something with just a tad less bells and whistles to cumulatively drag and drop or save to CD primarily data. Have you had any luck with that process on data?

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Hi Bruce:
This is not an area that I’m very familiar with, but I have both Easy CD Creator & Direct CD. The latter seems to do what you want. Mine is an old version & I don’t know if Roxio (who took over from Adaptec) continues to manufacture it.

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I’ve seen some say that Nero is better than Roxio.

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I’ve seen some say that Nero is better than Roxio. I’ve seen that too but it was just the opposite for me.

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I have Roxio Easy CD Creator 5 on W2K at work and what appears to be the same installed on XP at home (came pre-installed on a Dell so I’m not sure if it is standard issue with XP).
I can do exactly what you appear to want to do, using a CD as a floppy transferring files between home and work. Copy and paste in Explorer seems to work flawlessly.
When I eject the CD I am asked if I want to close it, and I just click on No.

What’s is your problem with Roxio?

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I am seeking software other than Roxio products. I have had too many problems with three versions of EZCDC on 4 different machines with XPH/XPP. I have had a lot of system lockups and CDs empty of half empty after burning. There are know issues with Roxio drivers in XP and I rather not mess with them anymore. You are fortunate that they work well for you.

Has anyone had any experience with other brands of software for burning just data that can be added-as needed to the CD like a floppy?

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Hi Bruce

You can find a download here that apparently will do what you want.
As others have suggested, the InCD component of several Nero bundles should also do what you want.

Have a Great day!!!
Ken

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Hi Ken & Oana ~

Unfortunately, the download link for CD Manager is dead. It seems, anyway, that it’s component, CreateDeviceImage, is for burning data images on rather than store simply like a floppy as I am trying to do. I will give the InCD aas well as the Nero stuff a look.

I assumed this type of software would be more available and easy to use since everyone is using this type of media.

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Well, if you are looking for software where you can drag n drop a file, pop the cd and run put it into another computer, I think you are going to be disapointed. As Dave pointed out, you have to close the session, therefore putting an end to any writing, before it can be read by another computer. I do not believe you can achieve the transportability coupled with the ease of a floppy.

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Using Nero you can certainly keep adding files to a CD. My son does it all the time to move stuff from my computer to his, which is several years old now, and only has a standard CD drive. He uses the Nero interface to do it by dragging and dropping in an interface similar to Explorer.

HYH

Peter

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…unless you are happy to use Easy CD on both machines.
I can do just that. You just need bigger pockets than you do for floppies

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Leif,

Do you have Direct CD working on an XP machine?

Thanks.

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Yes! – see my Post 190266 above.

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Hi, Mike ~

I am sorry if I have presented confusing information. I am not intending to transfer files back and forth between computers like a floppy.

This is what I would like to do:

I am not working with music, just data.

Today, I would like to put a CD-R in the drive, save graphic images to it (like I would a floppy), take it out, put another CD-R in, save Word documents to it, take it out, put in another CD-R and save PDF files to it, take it out, put in another CD-R, and save Excel documents to it.

Then tomorrow, I would like to put the same CD-Rs in, add the respective documents to the respective CD-Rs, and do this until the CD-Rs are full.

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Hi Mike, what I did discover was that 1 out of 2 CD’s to which I had backed up a mixture of folders and programs did work on my old 98SE desktop, and as Leif mentioned I have now learned the reason is I had closed 1 of these while it was on the XP Dell, and left the other open without knowing it. Im probably lucky, but the one that does work on my old desktop is working very well.

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Hi Bruce

Just discovered that the link for a download in my previous post, the one for “CD Manager” goes to BeBits.com, a website dedicated to BeOS that has nothing for Windows.

Sorry about that!

Have a Great day!!!
Ken

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I also had horrendous problems with Roxio’s Easy CD Creator and Direct CD on my XP machine. So, I switched over to Nero Burning Rom and InCD (which is what you would use to format a CD-RW). Formatting a CD-RW with InCD does exactly the same thing as Roxio’s Direct CD, but I have not had one issue whatsoever using it. After you format your CD-RW disk, you can drag&drop files from Explorer, transfer files from your HD, zip drive, etc.. And, you and delete any files on the disk exactly like you are using a floppy.

BTW, you can also use a CD-RW without formatting it but you can’t delete or overwrite files already on it. However, you CAN erase the disk and reuse it over and over again. This second method I use to make backup images using such programs as Norton Ghost and Acronis True Image 6.0.

You might find that the new Nero Burning Rom to be ideal as it gives you the option to use either the full program (mainly for experienced users) or Nero Express, which has a very easy to use GUI. It’s a piece of cake and flawless in operation.

Jeff

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Jeff ~

Thanks for your input. Got quite a few messages form folks who are former Roxio users and all are content with Nero’s performance and lack of conflict with XP. I expected more software was prevalent among users, but the responses indicate otherwise.

I have ordered the full version of Nero and it is on its way here.

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I have Nero 5 Burning ROM ver. 5.5.4.9 on my computer. I cannot find anything about InCD in this program. It is not referred to in the Help files either. Is it supposed to be there or is it a separate program that either didn

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Hi hlewton

Since you already have Nero, you can download InCD by going to the bottom of this page and clicking on the download link.
I’ve directed you to the page, rather than directly to the download link, because there is info about InCD there.

Have a Great day!!!
Ken

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Thank you. I’ll give it a try.

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Ken,

I have downloaded InCD and noticed one big difference from Direct CD. InCD requires a ReWritable Disc (CD-RW) where if I could have gotten Direct CD to work on my XP machine it doesn

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Hi hlewton

Concerning how slow InCD is when formatting the CD……..Sounds overly long to me but I can’t comment from experience since I use DirectCD (WindowsME and NT4).
Good Luck!

Have a Great day!!!
Ken

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Computer is XPP SP1.

Here is what my experiences with InCD have been so far. It took over 45 minutes to format the CD and I had to use a CD-RW; it would not accept a CD-R. I installed InCD and tried it and had the problems I am posting here. Later after I ran the chkdsk I mention below I updated Nero Burning ROM to the latest version but haven

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hlewton,

45 minutes sounds about right; that has been my experience formatting CD-RW’s. I think you are somehow confused about formatting disks. Both Direct CD and InCD are to be used ONLY for formatting CD-RW’s. Why? Because the “RW” (read & write) disks when formatted can be used over and over again. The physical makeup of those disks are totally different than that of a CD-R. You cannot “format” a CD-R. If you use either Direct CD or InCD to format a CD-R, all you will accomplish is to make a useless “coaster” [indent]

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One other thing I noticed besides the above and the fact that I had to use CD-RWs is that the CD-RW I used is supposed to hold 650 MB but with InCD’s format it only allows 536 MB to be stored on the CD.

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[/indent]Again, this is normal. Think of a typical 40 gig HD. When you check the capacity in “My Computer”, you will see it is listed as being only about 37.xx gigs. When a disk of any kind is formatted, you lose some of its capacity.

Another little tidbit to file away. IF you should at some time in the future decide you want to delete all the data that is on a FORMATTED CD-RW, do NOT use the “Erase disk” utility in Nero. What that will do is not only remove all the data, but it will also erase the formatting as well. Then you will have to format it again with InCD. To delete all the data from a FORMATTED CD-RW, simply do what you would normally do with a floppy or a folder on your HD… i.e., use the Ctrl+A (select all) and then click on “Delete”, or right click etc. Then you can simply begin fresh without having to reformat the disk.

Jeff

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Jeff,

Thanks for your reply but I

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Jeff, reading your posts on CD RW’s has been very useful. Can I just clarify if I have this right. CD-R does not need formatting. (I always thought CD-R were only for music burning, not data backup, have I got that straight?). All CD-RW must be formatted before they are used for backing up data, otherwise they cannot be reused?

I have not formatted my CD RW discs, on the package of 10 Kodak CD-RW I purchased, it says they are ready to use for “Writing, erase, and rewrite. Compatible with allo leading CD-RW drives. Discs designed for backing up and storage.” Fortunately I have only used 2 of these (without formatting first) for backing up my hard drive. I dont mind if I cannot rewite them, but have noticed they will read in some machines that are much newer than mine, but not others. Any thoughts? From your post at least I know to expect a new CD-RW to take 45 minutes to format.

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Can I just clarify if I have this right. CD-R does not need formatting. (I always thought CD-R were only for music burning, not data backup, have I got that straight?).

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[/indent]1) You cannot format a CD-R. Use these right out of the package. 2) You can burn whatever you want to a CD-R. They really don’t care what you put on them. [indent]

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All CD-RW must be formatted before they are used for backing up data, otherwise they cannot be reused?

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[/indent] CD-RWs can be reused whether they are formatted (UDP packet written). However, there is a big difference how they can be reused. Unformatted disks can be reused by the entire disc must be ERASED. You cannot erase/remove/delete individual files. I can’t remember if XP has a builtin CD eraser utility or not. Perhaps someone else can answer that question. But I have always used a 3rd Party utility. The 2 “biggies” are Nero Burning ROM (my personal choice) and Roxio’s EZ CD Creator. Either of those programs will erase a CD-RW. If a disc has been formatted, using either Nero InCD or Roxio DirectCD, then the disc can be used as if it were a floppy or zip disc. In other words, you can drag & drop files to and from the disc, delete individual files, etc. all day long. You can delete everything on the disc just like you do files from your HD; just highlight and click “Delete”.[indent]

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I have not formatted my CD RW discs, on the package of 10 Kodak CD-RW I purchased, it says they are ready to use for “Writing, erase, and rewrite.

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[/indent]Sorry, I haven’t seen any CD-RWs that already come formatted. I’m NOT saying that there aren’t such animals, but I personally haven’t seen them. If you have Nero InCD you can tell immediately if the disc is formatted or not. Or, you could use Nero’s “Info Tool” to determine the actual manufacturer and state of the disc; formatted/non-formatted, full, empty, etc. The fact that older CD-RW drives cannot read the data on your CD-RW discs may be because they are formatted and those machines don’t have a program that is capable of reading “packet written” discs. IF.. you are using Nero InCD, for example, to format your discs, and an older drive won’t recognize it, Nero offers a free little program which you can load on a floppy and then install on that older machine to enable it to read formatted CD-RWs in their CD ROM or burner. The program is “EasyWriteReader”.

I hope that covers everything satisfactorily? Perhaps others might have additional information or comments to add too.

Jeff

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Hi, Jeff ~[indent]

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I can’t remember if XP has a builtin CD eraser utility or not. Perhaps someone else can answer that question.

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[/indent]XP has simple & basic burning capabilities which work just fine for straight data or music burning one time to a CD, but no erasing or any other capabilities.

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Bruce,

Yes, I was aware of the XP builtin burning software, which I immediately disabled after installing Nero. There were many reports of conflicts when trying to run the two on the same machine. But I couldn’t remember about the “erase” feature, since it’s been a while since I had the XP utility enabled. BTW, here is a really good tutorial on burning CDs using the builtin burning utility in XP along with what it can and cannot do, etc. http://www.aumha.org/a/xpcd.htm%5B/url%5D. It might be helpful for those who don’t have any 3rd party burning software installed……. YET!

Jeff

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1) You cannot format a CD-R. Use these right out of the package

Direct CD will format a CD-R. If you use EZ CD Creator

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Direct CD will format a CD-R. If you use EZ CD Creator

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Pilgrim,

However, you cannot “write over existing files. . . .”. Thanks, that is very interesting. I never knew that. I even wasted a new CD-R to prove that you were correct. So I guess the bottom line is that a CD-R formatted for Direct CD can only be used similar to a diskette so long as you never fill it to capacity. As you said, even after erasing everything on the CD it still showed it was full when looking at its properties and it would not accept any more data.

Thanks very much for the education.

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This is sort of off-topic, but I’ve never really understood the pros & cons of using Direct CD vs. Easy CD Creator. When would you use one over the other?

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Hi, Phil ~

Direct CD allows you to treat a CD-RW as one would a floppy for the purposes of data transfer and EZCD is used to burn data, music, mixed, etc. to CD-R/CD-RW.

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Hi Phil

To elaborate a bit on Bruce’s explanation……

DirectCD allows you to treat the RW cd as you would any floppy or hard drive (eg: use Windows explorer to drag and drop files, copy/paste, etc.). You can also run programs and access files from the CD. You do, however, require DirectCD installed on all computers using CD’s formatted for DirectCD. You can name the CD.

EasyCD opens a window in which you browse your folders/files, selecting and building a directory of folders/files which you then write to your CD. You cannot remove them from the CD without deleting and reformating the CD, assuming it is a RW. CD’s formatted by EasyCD can be read by most current CD drives. This is a time consuming process but provides more generally transportable info. These can also be named.

Have a Great day!!!
Ken

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Ken, I believe that you can get a free UDF reader driver that will allow you to read Directcd CDs without having Directcd installed. A Google search for ‘UDF driver’ will return many hits.

Joe

--Joe

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Hi Joe

I’ve seen the UDF reader software you mentioned, but it never clicked as to what they could do for me so I’ve never checked them out……But I’ll take a look at them now!!

Thanks and….
Have a Great day!!!
Ken

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Thank you Bruce & Ken!! Finally, it makes sense to me. I take it that you can use Direct CD with a CD-R similar to a floppy, also. From the discussions above, though, I would assume that the CD fills up even when you delete a file from it.

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I take it that you can use Direct CD with a CD-R similar to a floppy, also. From the discussions above, though, I would assume that the CD fills up even when you delete a file from it.

You’re absolutely correct. I had my doubts but after experimenting I found out that is exactly how it works.

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Hi hlewton

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I would assume that the CD fills up even when you delete a file from it.

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Well….yes….the CD will fill up when you have retained the maximum capacity of the CD.
However, my experience is that, if you “delete”, “cut” or “move” info from the CD, you free up capacity. for example, if you have a “full” CD, you can delete some unwanted files to make room for more.
This, of course, applies to DirectCD, not EasyCD (CreateCD).

Have a Great day!!!
Ken

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Hi Ken:
Is this for both CD-RWs & CD-Rs? i.e. that you can delete files on a CD-R to make room for more files? If so, I wouldn’t see any reason to ever use CD-RW, since you could “erase” & reuse a CD-R.

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Ken & Phil.

Ken that wasn’t my question I was answering a question but thanks.

Phil,

When you erase a file on a CD – R it does not free up space on a CD-R formatted for Direct CD. Pilgrim explained it very well earlier in this thread. I tested what he said and wasted a CD-R only to prove he was absolutely correct.

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Thanks. I understand now. I think the confusion above was a misunderstanding of who said what. On a CD-RW, deleting a file with Direct CD will make more room. With a CD-R, deleting a file with Direct CD will keep it from being seen, but will not make more room.

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Hi hlewton…..again

ooops!!! I missed the CD – R.
My response was only with reference to CD – RW.

Have a Great day!!!
Ken

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Thank you Jeff, very helpful. I have a mixture of results because Im on different machines, at home I have an Iomega CD-RW, with Adeptec software, (yes it is over a year old), from this thread Im learning lots including Adeptec being sold. Nearly all the other machines I am using for work are Dell or generic, but very up to date compared with my old 98SE. So XP notebooks with CD RW’s included, using Roxio, so far have been pretty good. Seems I am not the only one working this technology out. Sure helps to be able to log into this forum and get so much help. Thank you once again Jeff.

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Hi, Cyber ~

You are correct, CD-Rs do not need formatting. CD-Rs can be used for data, music, video, etc. and even mixed variations of both. As far as formatting CD-RWs some formatting takes longer than others depending on the software you use, the settings you select, the read/write speeds and despite what some folks think, the quality of the media. My experience with CD-RWs using Nero Burning Rom has been virtually no noticeable formatting time and I think this is due to formatting done in the background.

I have experienced some glitches with burning CD-RW and as a result use only CD-R since they are ridiculously cheap, universally readable, and comparatively few write/read errors. The obvious industry trend away from CD-RW is partially due to this.

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My experience with CD-RWs using Nero Burning Rom has been virtually no noticeable formatting time and I think this is due to formatting done in the background.

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[/indent]Formatting time varies depending upon the speed of the burner and of the disc itself, as you pointed out. The relatively short formatting time you mentioned is most likely due to the fact that your burner, like mine, comes equipped with “Mt. Rainer” drivers, which allows you to begin using the disc after only 1 or 2 minutes of formatting. As it is now, the technology still needs a 3rd Party “packet writer” like InCD, but hopefully soon, XP will include it in the O/S and then no 3rd Party formatting utility will be needed. However, if you do use “CD-MRW” formatting, you will also need the “EasyWriteReader” addon to read them, even on your own PC.

Jeff

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CD-MRW??

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Bruce,

If you open the InCD “Properties” and click on the “InCD Page Settings” tab…… look at the bottom of that page and you will see the option to use “CD_MRW” packet writing (Mt Rainer) as opposed to the standard UDP-5 format. Again, if you choose to use this type of formatting, which only takes around a minute…. you will need “EasyWriteReader.exe” to be able to use the disc. I often use this formatting method and it works great…… very fast to format and convenient to use.

Jeff

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Didn’t they do away with InCD? I haven’t seen it for the last 9 or 10 upgrades and don’t have it.

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Here ya go: InCD – Current version: 3.5.22.0.b

If you haven’t been keeping up with the upgrades of InCD, you should pay particular attention to the upgrade instructions for those using older versions!!!

Jeff

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I suppose you know that 5.5.4.9 is pretty old now, you can download the update to 5.5.9.14 from the Nero web site

StuartR

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Stuart,

Yes thanks I have already done that but I have spent the last hour looking for my original Nero software before I tried to install that update. Haven

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hlewton,

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I don

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Jeff,

Thanks for this reply also. I should have looked at it before my last post. However, as I said, I

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OK, I did revert my XPP machine to remove InCD. I will run it like this for a couple days to make sure that the lockup problem has been resolved. However, I would like to reinstall InCD and have it working properly. The problems I experienced immediately after InCD

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Hi y’all

The following is quoted from this web page:

…. I had to uninstall Roxio’s Easy CD Creator to remove incompatibilities (DirectCD is part of the package and it had to go, too). Windows XP includes its own CD burning features (licensed from Roxio, actually…..

….. Windows XP can read UDF-format CD-R and CD-RW discs created by DirectCD, but it can’t write data to them. So to add data to an existing DirectCD RW disc, you must drag all the files off it, reformat it, and drag them all back again. Sure, this should happen only once per disc, but it’s a nuisance…..

…. so it was off to Roxio to upgrade to Easy CD Creator Platinum 5.1. The program also burns CDs faster than XP because Roxio licensed somewhat older CD burning code to Microsoft. Sneaky.

Also, there is a fix here that may be applicable. Scroll down to GET BACK YOUR CD/DVD, about 3/4 or more of the way down the page (it’s the last subject on the page).

Have a Great day!!!
Ken

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Update: Thanks to KenK

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One other thing I forgot to mention – the CD-R disc is a 700 MB and with Direct CD’s formatting it shows that it will hold 703 MB. Not too shabby, huh?

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Stuart,

Actually, I have been using Nero version 5.5.9.9 for several months now.

Jeff

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Hi Leif, in the event you are a bimbo like me and did click “yes” to the question “do you want to close” (same – Roxio Easy CD Creator 5 Dell pre loaded XP Home), is there a way to open the CD back up without having to reformat and or save again the folders I had already backed up? The first time I used the work XP notebook I thought the question about closing meant ending the session, rather than locking the CD. sooooooooo, I have a couple of CD’s that will not allow me to “add” any further folders, yet show less than half full. Now I know why…

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I was under the impression that having done the full close, that was it. No adding, subtracting, re-formatting or anything allowed.
Have you tried a can-opener?

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I went a step further, I tried a crow bar! Been clobbering myself over the head ever since I discovered I could not get the blasted thing open again. At least now I KNOW why, thanks to your information Leif. Moving between machines certainly makes me learn new stuff, this can only be a good thing, yes? (Well that’s what I tell myself while kicking the walls of frustration and stubbing my foot in the process)….

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Works with any file type, just has the added convenience of not having to manually convert mp3s to wave files before burning music cds.

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not having to manually convert mp3s to wave files

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[/indent]Personally, I don’t trust on-the-fly conversion, because you don’t have the opportunity to catch errors should they occur. Thanks to my experiences with half and blank tracks using CD Creator v4, it will be a long time before I allow a burning program to do that for me again! Just my .

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I also got the Bs Gold and Bs Clip with my Sony CD R/W, and I use it daily at work to back up text files from my hard drive. Once you have formatted the CD, it works just like any floppy.

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Hi Bruce, I’m late as usual in joining the discussion but did you give NERO a try? I’ve got it bundled with the other software for my CD-R/RW and have no complaints. You can have multisession-burning (that is, add files like you would do with a floppy, close the session, and if you have some disk space left continue it at another time). It supports a lot of file types, you can burn audio-CDs, data CDs, and even mix audio and data files on the same CD. I just googled around, there seem to be plenty of free and fully functional demo versions out there.

Oana

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Although I am checking out Nero, I am surprised that there are not more options available or being utilized by users.

Many seem to be married to Adaptec/Roxio……..are they like the Microsoft of the CD-burning industry?

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Bruce,
I use Roxio (Toast Titanium) on my Mac, in both OS9 and X. I have had absolutely no problems and find their support second to none. An example – I ordered an update CD (could have downloaded it but wanted the disk) for the cost of postage. Got it two days later and updated no problem. A couple of weeks later they sent me an e-mail mentioning that ‘some’ users had had problems updating so they were sending a new CD gratis. They made a mistake, but fixed it themselves – I don’t think we would ever see MS doing something like that.

I think the process you describe can be done using toast. I haven’t done it myself but recall reading about it in the manual (yes a paper manual!). I’ll check it out at home tonight and let you know, but hate to think you would have to buy a Mac to get this functionality. It might be available on their PC versions.

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Bruce,
I did last night. Apparently Toast does what you describe, but from what I can figure out, this may be unique to the MAC OSs. Apparently they handle volumes, particularly removable ones differently than Win.

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