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Setup: 16 month old Custom desktop ASUS board with 4GB RAM, 2 x 500GB HD, Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit.

Security: Netgear Router with hardwired firewall, Zone Alarm firewall, Avast AV., Malwarebytes Antimalware, WinPatrol, Windows Defender. Daily security database updates and scans by Avast, MBAM and Defender. System disk C: imaged every 4 weeks to external HD (Paragon).

Problem: No problems up till 30/3 on which day I handled e-mail and browsed the Web (actually monitoring the T20 cricket!). Nothing downloaded. Normal shutdown. On switching on 31/3 checked e-mail via Mailwasher and Thunderbird then clicked on Firefox 28.0. Computer sort of grunted but nothing loaded. Repeated this without effect. Task Manager showed 3 Firefox processes running but there was nothing on the screen. I then tried Internet Explorer and Chrome but they did not load either. I rebooted without any change.

Faced with what for me was an impossible problem I decided to cut corners and Restored from a backup from 2 weeks ago, which involved two reboots along the way. To my surprise Firefox still refused to load. I booted into Safe Mode with networking and Firefox loaded and updated itself again to 28.0.

I ran a Diagnostic Startup and Firefox and Chrome both loaded but, of course, did not connect. A check on running processes showed that both Zone Alarm and Avast were running. I have since scanned with Avast, MBAM and RogueKiller. The latter is a bit complex but seems to report nothing untoward. I went on-line in Safe Mode and r a scan with Trend Micro Housecall and this found no threats.

I have prided myself for years that I would never be caught out like other people because I can always Restore to a recent backup image. This episode is a real blow to my pride. More importantly, how does one recover from this situation. I cant work in Safe Mode all my life and I am not even certain if a clean install will cure this problem.

I sincerely hope there is a guru out here who can come up with a solution.

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See ifAdwCleaner finds anything and there are links to other programs lower down the page, although I’ve read that Combofix should be used under supervision, but Junkware Removal Tool is similar to AdwCleaner.

After AdwCleaner has done its scan, you can unckeck any items it finds that you want to keep, but clicking on Report will also show any other malicious files.

Have a look at the add-ons in IE and Programs and Features for any Toolbars or programs that you haven’t installed or don’t recognise.

If it’s a malicious add-on then see if IE will open without add-ons by going Start – All Programs – Accessories – System Tools – Internet Explorer (No Add-ons).

If it opens that way, then click on the Home page icon for your normal browsing page.

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Have you tried shutting down ZoneAlarm?

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Yes and you will see in my original post that Avast & ZA were running when I successfully loaded FF after a Diagnostic Startup.

I have run AdwCleaner and it did not report any problems.
I do not use IE and there are no toolbars. Attempts to run it without add-ons failed. Would a toolbar on IE block both Fiefox and Chrome as well?

Are we still looking for malware which must have survived a complete C; Restoration, including two reboots?
Could it not possibly be something intrinsic in the OS?

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If you try a Windows clean boot, does it still happen?

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Thank you Rurib.

I had done the Selective Startup excluding usual start up items but I had not looked at the Services and, yes, FF loaded. Having done this now there were 20 services but I discounted Avast & Zone Alarm because they had been cleared as mentioned in my original post. I then disabled the first 5 and FF loaded. i chose Adobe Flash Updater as the prime suspect and disabled that with success. I could not find the actual program or service but under Control Panel I disabled automatic updates and tried a normal boot.

Unfortunately FF did not load. I went back and disabled the next candidate which was Bluetooth Driver Management, booted normally, went in to Services and disabled it there and everything is back to normal. I do use Bluetooth occasionally but that is a matter which can be sorted later.

The burning question remains – how did these two otherwise innocuous services become computer terrorists overnight? Anyway, I have learned a useful approach should any similar episodes occur in the future.

Thank you again, Ken.

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Thank you Rurib.

I had done the Selective Startup excluding usual start up items but I had not looked at the Services and, yes, FF loaded. Having done this now there were 20 services but I discounted Avast & Zone Alarm because they had been cleared as mentioned in my original post. I then disabled the first 5 and FF loaded. i chose Adobe Flash Updater as the prime suspect and disabled that with success. I could not find the actual program or service but under Control Panel I disabled automatic updates and tried a normal boot.

Unfortunately FF did not load. I went back and disabled the next candidate which was Bluetooth Driver Management, booted normally, went in to Services and disabled it there and everything is back to normal. I do use Bluetooth occasionally but that is a matter which can be sorted later.

The burning question remains – how did these two otherwise innocuous services become computer terrorists overnight? Anyway, I have learned a useful approach should any similar episodes occur in the future.

Thank you again, Ken.

Hi Ken,

I am glad you got it sorted.
It’s indeed weird that such a situation would arise seemingly without any changes to your setup. Have you checked your bluetooth enabled hardware to see if it is working properly?

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Best not to throw any fix tools at it until you have a diagnosis.

Feels like a firewall issue – have you every had any other firewall/AV installed? If so, ensure they’ve been completely removed: http://www.carrona.org/avuninst.html

Next step for me would be a complete uninstall of ZA, turn on the Windows firewall, reboot a couple of times and run the ZA removal routine as well (in the link above).

If that doesn’t improve matters, collect some logs/data – the BSOD collection routine at Sysnative is good, read and follow steps 1>4 then zip the required folder and attach it back here in a reply: http://www.sysnative.com/forums/bsod-crashes-kernel-debugging/68-blue-screen-death-bsod-posting-instructions-windows-8-7-vista.html We’ll try to analyse it for you.

If you can zip up any other logs from tools you’ve run, please attach them as well.

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Are there any entries in Event Viewer – either in Application or System – at the time you’ve tried the browsers that might shine a light on the issue?

If you use Nir Sofer’s MyEventViewer then you can see both Application and System together (instead of having to swap between the two) and you can save selected logs as a handy little text file.

Select Logs and filter on Application, Internet Explorer and System.
36669-events
Click to enlarge

Select Options and filter on Error and Warning
36670-events1
Click to enlarge

If you see any events that are relevant then use CTRL+click to select them in the upper pane then use File > Save Selected Items to save the information to a text file (which you can attach to a post for us to see.
36671-events2
Click to enlarge

Hope this helps…

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I agree that in the absence of any malware it looks like a firewall problem as any 3rd party security programs aren’t loaded in Safe Mode with Networking.

It could have been an Avast Definitions update that has caused the loss of connectivity and if you can do this with Avast, run a manual check for updates, but to eliminate Avast and ZoneAlarm, use the Uninstallers in satrow’s post and then install MSEto see if the browsers will connect.

Writing my post as you were yours, but Bluetooth is supposed to skip out of the way whenever it comes near a DHCP IP, but I suppose you could get the odd conflict.

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During the course of my investigations via a Clean Boot I discovered that both Avast and Zone Alarm continued to run their services when I had “disabled all”.

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3rd party security programs do reassert themselves in a clean boot and the only way to isolate them other than disabling or uninstalling is to boot up into Safe Mode where they aren’t loaded and as the browsers worked when you booted up into Safe Mode with Networking, this tends to point to security programs as being the cause although a number of other applications aren’t loaded either and is where the clean boot separates other non MS services/programs.

If the clean boot didn’t identify the cause, then it would have been back to the security programs.

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KenWA I had your exact problems after an Avast update,I was shut out of web FF would not load the only difference from the day before was the update from Avast,I took Avast out and I could go on the web Avast did not think that it would have hurt so
I now have AVG which was a pity I was completely happy with it,tried putting it back on computer but no go,I am running Windows 7 64 bit professional.

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I had similar problems with Avast recently. Avast have taken a tumble with quality in recent months / year, since v7. They have focused more on pretty (useless) GUIs and adding extra products to get even more revenue for their hedge fund owners, whilst at the same time each release seems to cause more an more problems as reported on the forums. Moreover, as evidenced the past few months on AV Comparatives and AV Test the detection rates are plummeting, now just achieving 90% detection. I still use Avast but if there is not a very rapid turnaround of priorities by senior management then I will be taking my business elsewhere at renewal time, if not sooner.

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Why didn’t your restore work given you didn’t have the issue when you last backed it up?

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I had a similar problem in Dec 2013 and posted it here. I haven’t seen Malwarebytes mentioned but
my issue was Malwarebytes Anti Exploit Beta software time expired..I had forgotten it was installed
and certainly didn’t realize there was an expiration time. It keep two computers browsers from opening.

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KenWA,

My computer is similar to yours, except it is two years older. There are two programs that I use that might make your system easier to use.

1) ProcessHacker2 shows all processes running on the machine. It allows you to suspend, terminate, and restart (among other things) any process running, especially multiple instances as you encountered.
2) Waterfox (search using your favorite Search Engine) is a 64-bit version of Firefox and uses the same add-ons and themes. It is not found at the FF home page, but does update searches just like FF. If you Bookmark the Waterfox home page, you can access new versions should the automatic update not function correctly.

I encountered problems with the Avast! program update 9.0.2016. It did not install properly and hung-up my computer. Deleting, downloading a fresh copy, and reinstalling solved the problem.

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The problems with Avast on my PC amount to Predictive Heuristics and Reputation Services. Two general Antivirus Sensitivity settings can be adjusted or those enhanced features can be unchecked entirely. Both of the enhanced sensitvity settings need to be unchecked for my MSE-4 to update (Win 7 Home 64-bits) or to receive and install some MS Updates. I’m in my Ubuntu partition right now, so I am not able to specify the exact Antivirus Settings in question.

It is the File Shields which scan the updates and some dowloaded files. There is a Reputation Service which prevents downloading any “unusual” or “infrequent” download. Both of these file-based services are a pain in the neck.

For browser and Internet Connection issues, it is the Web Shields which need to be muted. Especially the Reputation Services and the features which prevent connecting to rogue web sites. There are (at least) two different types of Avast Reputation Services. One is statistical (based on user experiences, however that is measured), while the other is heuristic (based on behavior algorithms). Both are a pain in the neck.

Overall, Avast gets high marks for trying to protect my PC. But not so high for allowing me to USE my PC!

-- rc primak

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I used Waterfox for a time but they were not updating it reliably so I shifted back to Firefox.

I use ESET NOD32. Its a paid AV but I’ve been much happier with it than the free AV’s I’ve used or helped others with. It’s not caused problems, has warned me off of problem sites, and has been very reliable. I’ve landed on a few infections but have not been infected since installing it.

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DavidFB,
I encountered the same problem with Waterfox. When I brought up its Homepage, I noticed newer versions were available. That is why I suggested Bookmarking the Homepage and checking for updates if Waterfox doesn’t do it automatically. Eventually, they will have it working as well as FF.

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If everyone re-reads Post #8, they will see that it was a Bluetooth conflict for the OP and not because of Avast.

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I’ve never had a problem with Avast on Vista Home Premium or Ultimate. I have had problems with Microsoft updates – especially .NET – I’ve learned that doing the .NET hotfixes last, every patch Tuesday, has been more successful. Something in the last months updates was slowly degrading IE-9 and after the last patch Tuesday, even FireFox and Comodo Dragon were crashing constantly. Oddly enough, simply re-installing IE-9 solved all these problems! The only remaining problem was getting my password manager to work on IE-9, but this has always been an intermittent problem anyway.

I have not even had to turn off Avast’s shields during updates during MS updates. However, I use the free one, and don’t have the firewall enabled as a result. I like that firewall, but it is too invasive to allow DRM to operate, and consequently it preempts me from enjoying my premium content. I simple reverted back to the free version, and all has been well every since. Avast has never caused a problem on any of my clients installations either; but then Avast is a warrior, and when it gets in a fight with a particularly nasty agent, things can go very wrong. I attribute this to the GMER technology use to remove root kits. MBAP by Malware Bytes Anti-malware Premium, has a new heuristic engine that can prevent malware coded rootkits, and if one is already present in the system, MBAR is a better tool to safely remove them. However most of my clients can’t afford to buy anything even when MBAM used to be a life time license; so consequently Avast has had to be the front line of protection for many of them. I look at it this, way – If they have anything to lose, at all, then backing up their system, and using these tools, is better than being pwned, even if they temporarily lose the operating system or the rarely occasional hard drive.

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If everyone re-reads Post #8, they will see that it was a Bluetooth conflict for the OP and not because of Avast.

While driver conflicts were found to be at fault here, the issues raised with Avast and its overly-tight “hardened” settings deserve their own thread. More folks have Avast issues than have driver issues.

Maybe not the case in this thread, but a frequent set of issues.

In addition to resolving the Bluetooth driver issue, I (and others in this thread) would recommend removing Avast and replacing it with something less likely to cause future issues.

-- rc primak

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For the last decade the only time I’ve had a problem with Avast, was because someone installed it on an infected machine, and the obvious warfare that resulted was devastating to the client. Blaming Avast for that seems ignorant to me. The only other major problem has been folks trying to run two real time anti-virus schemes at the same time. A lot of folks don’t know MSE is an anti-virus solution, as well as Windows Defender on Window 8 and they try to run them concurrently. Well of course this will mess up the operating system in a very real way. Anytime I have clients that have something to lose, like their bank site account, or online credit card shopping; I recommend the best blended defenses they can get free or paid, either one. My recommendation if they run free Windows solutions, is to be sure and run online purely as a limited rights user, and only use the administrator account for maintenance only. That they password protect and disable the hidden administrator account that is in every version of Windows; that they use good solutions that protect you during an SSL session. These include kernel space solutions like Rapport by Trusteer, MBAP, and a password manager that is resistant to malware manipulation that uses full encryption. If they obey these rather simple rules and also keep all system OS and applications updated religiously, they should be about as safe as you can get.

So Ninite or File Hippo can be a big help in this area, as well as an occasional check with Secunia PSI for any end of life applications. I also like to cross check with Avast’s software updater, because sometimes it disagrees with the other solutions, and is found to be correct. There again, if a person just can’t get along with Avast, and they follow the other rules, then I can’t see any harm coming, but every time I’ve looked into this, for a client, I’ve found a conflict with some application that was causing more problems than just a conflict with Avast, and that application was removed from the machine permanently. I’m one of these stubborn techs that isn’t satisfied with easy solutions by simply black listing something someone had irrational fears about, I find the reason behind the problem. If the client doesn’t mind a complete wipe and reinstall for the sake of expediency, then I’m okay with that, but I’ve actually bought hard drives from clients to replace with a new one, just so I could study what was actually causing the problems. The overwhelming majority of the time, I’ve found an offending application that is either a PUP, or should have been banned from the PC world, or there is something running in the MBR as a back door or other root kit. Lately the big problems have been APT (Advanced Persistent Threats). I can’t blame any AV solution for having problems with these, as the criminals have quite literally advanced beyond the capabilities of any of the major players to completely thwart their machinations. The way I figure it, is that it is a God send they were having trouble, or the APT would NEVER have been discovered!!!

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Someone else raised this earlier and I have not seen any response yet – why did the problem persist after using an image to revert to a state before the problem happened?

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Someone else raised this earlier and I have not seen any response yet – why did the problem persist after using an image to revert to a state before the problem happened?

I was wondering that myself, maybe something auto-updated right after the restoration.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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I was wondering that myself, maybe something auto-updated right after the restoration.

That would be my best guess at the moment too.

I have run into malware that could survive a complete factory reinstall, so I assume an image could be subverted too. For these problems, I had to resort to running the OEM diagnostic for the hard drive, and then use Darik’s Boot and Nuke to wipe the drive.

That is a pretty rare event, so I wouldn’t be looking for that as of yet.

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KenWA,

I went through a similar exercise some months back. Various software problems were occurring (much more than browser difficulties). Like you, I also keep backup images. Restoring older backups led to observation of the same kinds of problems, which had not been present when those backups were made. I tried all kinds of things, including restoring and booting while disconnected from the network. I turned off auto-updating to for every piece of software that would allow it. Google Chrome and Google Earth do not allow disabling auto-updating, so I removed them. Reconnecting to the net, I still had problems. Played with Event Viewer. And on, and on, following many of the suggestions given above. I even tried an upgrade repair (which failed).

Eventually I found that the problem was bad memory. You must use Memtest86 or Memtest86+. You can find these free on the net. They are also included on diagnostic disks provided by many PC vendors. The built-in Windows memory checker is insufficient. It will say your memory is good when it isn’t. That is probably because it does not run enough kinds of tests. Now I check my RAM quarterly. If something is acting up, I check the RAM first.

Good luck solving your problem.

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