A note on anonymous posters

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We built the Forums with the strong conviction that everyone be heard – whether they’re willing to identify themselves or not. I still think the ability to post anonymously is a key capability here on the Forum.

At the same time, anonymous posters have to realize that (a) it’s impossible to keep track of individual anonymous voices and (b) anyone throwing stones from an anonymous account won’t be tolerated – the posts just won’t appear. MVP moderators have to approve every anonymous post. They and I have high tolerance for differences in opinion, but very low  tolerance for repeating the same arguments ad nauseum.

If you wish to remain anonymous, that’s fine, but keep in mind the limitations. You will be asked for a name, you can make one up as long as it’s not swear words or other objectional language. you will be asked for an email address – but note it doesn’t have to be a real one. You can use a temporary alias or a made up email, just keep in mind your BEST experience where you get notified of responses is with a working email address.

Also, realize that if you register, all you need is an accessible email address. We don’t ask for any personal information – none.

If you live in a country where registering is not advisable, we understand your situation. To circumvent the usual registration procedure, email me – sb@askwoody.com – and I’ll make special arrangements.

Edited by Susan on 6-11-2022

Total of 29 users thanked author for this post. Here are last 20 listed.

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I sometimes read an anonymous poster and think about responding. However, it seems pointless because it is like talking to a mass of hundreds of people, when there is only one in the mass whom I wish to address, or may be interested in what I have to say. So, if you wish to remain anonymous, please understand your views will be regarded by me, and I suspect others as one way communications. You should understand that you cannot ask a question as anonymous.

Two-way communications are much more rewarding and deserving of a response.

What is so hard about dreaming up some name like Woody or CT?

CT

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WildBill, HiFlyer, lizzytish, ch100, BobbyB, PhotM, Microfix

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Canadian Tech wrote:

You should understand that you cannot ask a question as anonymous.

And yet Elly says that’s the primary reason to remain anonymous:

Elly wrote:

Advantages of being anonymous…
1) You are just getting a question answered, and aren’t here for anything more. Why register if you aren’t coming by this way again?

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Robb

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Canadian Tech

Canadian Tech wrote:

You should understand that you cannot ask a question as anonymous.

Anyone can ask a question!

And expect an answer.

It’s the responsibility of the person answering if they wish to identify the person they are responding to–just simply use the Quote function to highlight the information you are responding to, and it will include the Reply # from which you are Quoting–it will clearly identify who you are responding to–it’s simple to do! You can choose not to do that, but that’s your choice–not an inability to do so!

Just put your mouse pointer over my above quote–it says I’m quoting from Reply #98802–easy to see!

With the nesting function of this *message board* forum, it’s truly the responsibility of the responder to identify what they are responding to!

I’m almost sure you will never see this–you are long gone from this topic–oh, well … !

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HiFlyer, Elly

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Also, the advantages of posting as a member means you can keep track of your posts without having to search the database for threads. Very handy if you wish to re-visit a thread from a while back 🙂

If debian is good enough for NASA...

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WildBill, Elly, woody

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Woody,

Prior to the “Forums”, were we not all Anon but were able to assign a Display name and/or first name?

Is that not possible now without an Email address, now? I know it kind defeat some of the purpose but that would only be some disadvantage to Anon. It would at least give the rest of us some amount of an identity to talk to??? Anyway, just a thought…. 🙂

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What I’m hearing is that it can be difficult to address the original issue and make sure it was answered properly when there are a bunch of anonymous users chiming in. So, for those committed to being anonymous, for whatever your reason is, it would be helpful to identify yourself in the initial post (pick a name, letter, number, animal, vegetable, mineral… but something that makes it possible to quickly and easily follow your replies for that question). It helps make sure your issue gets answered, and not sidetracked by another anonymous user.

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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PhotM wrote:

Prior to the “Forums”, were we not all Anon but were able to assign a Display name and/or first name?

True, back before the Lounge (a month ago!) people could enter names and email addresses, if they wanted, and those would appear on the post. I had to manually approve every post. Every. Post.

The Lounge software – a full bulletin board – is considerably more complex. We’re handling ten times the volume of what we had a month ago. I was the choke point before, now registered users can post away. It remains to be seen if we can keep the quality of posts out of the shallow end of the gene pool, but I think we can.

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Robb, HiFlyer, dononline, lizzytish, Elly

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PhotM

PhotM wrote:

Prior to the “Forums”, were we not all Anon but were able to assign a Display name and/or first name?

I think, if I’m remembering correctly, if you chose to include a Name in the old Comment system, a cookie was being placed on your system so it *remembered* that information the next time you visited–did not matter if you closed out the browser or shut down your system.

If you cleared your cookies, then the automatic listing of your name disappeared, and you had to re-enter it, again, if you wanted it there ….

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PhotM

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Are there cookies in anything but the advertisements, if someone doesn’t register and log in?

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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This is an anonymous post by NightOwl to Elly’s question–to test what cookies are present if an anonymous post is made.

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Elly, I am suggesting you to configure your browser to allow only so called first-party cookies and disallow third-party cookies. Also allow first-party session cookies, which means persistent between logins. This is a generic recommendation not related to this forum/lounge and useful to avoid most of the internet tracking.
The configuration is different from browser to browser and I addressed most of it on the old forum and other posters made useful contributions about this issue.
Internet Explorer has quirky functionality, the default one is most compliant with the (old, current, whatever one wants to consider them) standards, but after Google decided to breach the standards in 2012 and forced everyone else to follow suit for practical reasons, IE needed to be configured with a custom configuration. The custom implementation in IE is not so accurately done like the default one, but still acceptable for most situations.
Other browsers have accurate implementation of the cookie configuration as far as I know.
There is an additional setting in most modern browsers which is open for debate and named “Do not track”. Most points of view are to set it to enabled, while I am against this configuration because it is not an internet standard and as such is not mandatory for the advertiser and in fact provides extra information to rogue advertisers who can only be shamed publicly, but not forced to comply.

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HiFlyer, Elly, woody

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What extra information about me is provided if I enable Do Not Track?

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Thank you, Ch100.

That is how I’ve configured my browsers for cookies, although I deny any session cookies and clear all of them when the browser closes.

I tend to check out the ramifications of updating browsers, because they can change how they handle things (just like Windows). You point out the details of what Internet Explorer has gone through, over time… and for my use, it wasn’t good. I really appreciate when knowledgeable people point out the privacy risks. I don’t expect others to need as much privacy as I do, but I want the knowledge and option to avoid problems. For me, that is very valuable information.

I don’t use “do not track” because of there are no consequences for not complying, and there is no way to tell if a particular website is respecting it or not. It is kind of like Microsoft reassuring us that Win 10 is the most secure operating system so far, while they are syphoning off data on a regular schedule, with no way of opting out.

I appreciate the discussion of privacy, because I want to know and make my own decisions. You have no idea how thankful I am for the things I’ve learned here.

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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HiFlyer, Kirsty

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Reply to Post # 98894

This is a second (#2) anonymous post by NightOwl to Elly’s question–to test what cookies are present if an anonymous post is made.

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Elly

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It’ll be very interesting to see what you find!

There will certainly be third party cookies for advertisers. Other than that… I don’t know…

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Elly

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@ Elly

Elly wrote:

Are there cookies in anything but the advertisements, if someone doesn’t register and log in?

Short answer–YES!

ch100 wrote:

While it was working exactly how you explained it, there was additional functionality.

My observations concur with what you have observed–this site does track, and knows you have been here before, whether you are logged in or not.

To be sure, I’m a known registered member of this forum website–but it definitely can, and does identify me when I’m logged off, and making an Anonymous post.

Only a truly Anonymous poster, who has never registered with this site, could tell us what cookies are being created when they visit, and post on this forum, and if they delete those cookies, what new cookies are created if they return to post again!

woody wrote:

It’ll be very interesting to see what you find!

There will certainly be third party cookies for advertisers. Other than that… I don’t know…

Well, maybe *Yes*, or maybe *No*–depends on what you think about the results!

It’s too late for me to continue tonight at this hour–I’ll continue tomorrow!

For what it’s worth–I don’t think Woody is tracking anyone (on purpose), but I think maybe the website has that ability–and is doing so!

(Arrrgh–I think AI (Artificial Intelligence) is going to *Rule the World*–and maybe we will never notice–and I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or bad?!)

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HiFlyer, Elly

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Okay, thank you for checking that out. It is refreshing that you are willing to look at what is actually there and report what you find, and not just reassure or criticize wanting to know. Knowledge is power…

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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HiFlyer

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@NightOwl
This is a side note about the technical implementation which you mentioned and not about the main subject of this thread.
This is an interesting point of view about the cookie and the mechanism to authenticate the user coming back to the site. I thought about this mechanism in the past and I could not find a complete answer, but I have to admit that I did not do a thorough investigation.
While it was working exactly how you explained it, there was additional functionality.
Let’s say I logged on from my laptop and the cookie was planted on that laptop. The post had to be moderated before being posted, but still visible by me, based on that authentication first party persistent cookie.
Next login was from an iPad or any other device not related to the first one – “the laptop” – and on a different network, different ISP, even different browser type – Safari vs Firefox or Chrome. After logging in from the iPad, I would still see that I had a post to be moderated and its content. This was not always happening, but in almost every instance.
I have never understood how this was working.
Was it based on the similarity of the cookies existing on multiple devices and associated with my email address?
It was a nice feature nevertheless, although I can almost sense how half of the readers here, especially those who prefer to stay anonymous, would say it was tracking, a security issue, privacy breach and so on.

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On the old site, you were not required to put in an e-mail address.
It still remembered

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Elly, ch100

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I suppose that without an email address, when switching devices, there was no way to remember, unless Woody magic was involved. 🙂

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On the old site, you were not required to put in an e-mail address.
It still remembered

This must be what @nightowl confirmed about involuntary tracking on the old and current site.
It is common practice on many web sites and I am wondering if by disabling (first-party) session cookies persistence this issue can be resolved while creating in fact an inconvenience for the user of the site.
Any excess of security/privacy cause less functionality and this is well known.

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Advantages of registering…
1) Once you are past the first post, you can post without moderation.
2) You become part of the community here, and your voice and experience can be recognized.
3) It makes less work for Woody and the MPVs, who must moderate and approve every anonymous post (respecting their time and energy).

Advantages of being anonymous…
1) You are just getting a question answered, and aren’t here for anything more. Why register if you aren’t coming by this way again?
2) Some people have clearly known issues of being identified in any way, and you stay safe, whether political, or from targeted personal violence.
3) No one knows you had that dumb question, or controversial point of view, and it won’t follow you.

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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Robb, HiFlyer, ch100

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It was bad enough to hear that other(s) think I’ve subjected myself to an increased likelihood of malware infection by registering here, but now you’re telling me I’m also more susceptible to personal violence than if I had remained anonymous?

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Woody posting as an MVP, Elly

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@b
There are parts of the World where participation in a community hosted in what is perceived there as an “unfriendly” country can place the poster living in that part of the World in physical danger or otherwise damage that user’s social perspectives for the future.

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Robb, HiFlyer, satrow, PKCano, Kirsty, Woody posting as an MVP, Elly

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If you weren’t a target before registering, you won’t make yourself a target by registering.

In my case, I was a victim of domestic violence, and I help other women. It happens way more than people think, and it is a problem with the abuser, rather than the victim. I am very cautious, probably overly cautious, because of near-death experiences. I have an identity for this site only, because after more than 20 years, I am still a target. Otherwise neutral or even friendly things (a bouquet of flowers… from a stalker) can signal danger to someone who is being abused. The majority of people discount/deny the frequency and severity of abuse.

In case you have any real interest, check out the statistics at http://ncadv.org/learn-more/statistics and at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/23/domestic-violence-statistics_n_5959776.html

Most people don’t talk about it, or stigmatize survivors with some kind of label that clearly differentiates victims from normal people (like you?). Congratulations, that makes it more comfortable for you. But victims were and are perfectly normal people. The things I learn on this site help me lock down my computer so that data doesn’t leave it, and malware and phishing can’t get in. I teach other women… and not having been techy my whole life, that is a challenge. When a woman leaves an abuser they often have no money, no safe place to go, and no way to contact friends and family safely. We build from there. Tech wise, I’m experimenting with different operating systems (old computers and cell phones get donated to women’s shelters all the time). I need to know what endangers a woman on the internet. Every website on domestic violence that I know of tells, first thing, that women can be traced that they are accessing it. In my case I’d hidden the number of a women’s shelter in a notebook, in the middle of all kinds of other stuff… He found it. It didn’t even have the name of the place with it, but he called it, and there was h*** to pay. So there is more than adequate reason for me to be cautious on the internet, or with my computer, where I am unfamiliar with the possible pitfalls. Other people may have similar experiences. Or they may have different ones that are just as valid.

Those are the people that I am speaking of, in addition to myself, and all the people politcally oppressed… and if you know nought of all that, count your blessings…

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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Elly wrote:

Congratulations, that makes it more comfortable for you.

Thanks.

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Well, Elly……. I’ve been involved for many, many years now with a Domestic violence and Missing children website through a great friend of mine who unfortunately has had to give up through ill health.    So, although I did not personally suffer from abuse, I knew alot about it and how it all affected those involved.   So these two areas, domestic violence and missing children are very close to my heart.   Mind you domestic violence can also be the other way round…….. meaning the woman abusing a man……  And as far as children are concerned, and I mean older children as well, I’m v. wary of social networking as experience has shown me it is a haven for predators.   Some of you may know that I ‘dabble’ in graphics and I will not include any graphics of children perse……….. there are enough of those floating around and I know also from experience that these pictures of children become a shopping list for those same predators.      Privacy means so much to us all in different ways and it is our right to protect it as best we can.   My kudos to you for expressing this all so well.  LT

Angels can fly directly into the heart of the matter.   Anon

 

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@ Elly

Elly wrote:

In my case, I was a victim of domestic violence, …

Thank you for sharing!

I’m so sorry … what a horrible life experience for anyone to experience.

I’m thankful to hear you have found some solace in this community … I hope it continues to be so!

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Elly

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I’m not really trying to elicit sympathy, but wake people up to the fact that privacy and being anonymous have an important function… especially the people who are knowledgeable in tech but making some erroneous and limiting assumptions about why someone would chose to be anonymous. I’d hate to see them stop helping people just because they haven’t registered.

If anything, the fact that I’ve stepped up and registered is testimony to the fact that I’ve found Woody’s site to be one of the best, ever. He isn’t data mining his users, and that e-mail address required when you register is just so you can get a password and log in.

Having a definite non-tech background, and traumatic history, I can say that registering meant dealing with an unfamiliar process that was just a little intimidating because of all the privacy issues, my personal ones, and then with Windows and the internet. In fact it was simple to do, and didn’t require any information that would compromise my identity… I can chose to identify how I want, as much or as little as I want. Basic is to choose a name and get that password. That should be reassuring for other non-tech types worried about such things.

Being part of a community that has widely divergent viewpoints, expert knowledge in the field, and a willingness to be open to discussion while maintaining civility is rewarding. The fact that tech is everywhere is reason enough to become familiar with it. I don’t think I have enough years left to learn everything about my computer the hard way!

 

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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AlexEiffel, HiFlyer, Microfix

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2) You become part of the community here, and your voice and experience can be recognized.

This is probably the most relevant of all the advantages which you listed.

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HiFlyer, Microfix, Woody posting as an MVP, Elly

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The community here is really something special, all of you. Information gets shared, pros and cons get discussed. I learn way more than reading or surfing elsewhere. Privacy and anominity and other issues can be hotly debated… but Woody and the MPVs bring civility back to the discussion each and every time. I’ve been encouraged and supported … until I have enough courage to try this or that, and find my computer even more useful as a result. I’m a bit intimidated experimenting with CentOS (a Linux distro recommended by Ch100) because it isn’t instantly set up the way I want to use it out of the box, and I’m learning a whole new computer language it seems, but look forward to a more stable and private system, going at my own pace (slowly). I look at how Noel configures his system… and long for something like that, so I started experimenting with firewalls and learning to use them. I learned about “SFC /VERIFYONLY, ” and “SFC /SCANNOW ” and how to run them, and have a more stable operating system as a result.  Kirsty often asks and answers questions in language I understand. Woody helps me update the way I want to, for the operating system I have, every month.There are many others who have helped me out, and make this a great place to come to, too many to go on about here. Check out the forums and many topics, you will find them there. I hope that by discussing anominity and how it works here, and on the internet and in my computer, people coming to this site will be able to make better decisions for themselves on how they will participate. No one has to acknowledge an anonymous question, but the information the tech experts pass on can be life saving. Just saying… you just don’t know, because it isn’t an issue for you… Elly… but not really Elly…

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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Robb, Noel Carboni, AlexEiffel, Kirsty

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@Elly

I’m a bit intimidated experimenting with CentOS (a Linux distro recommended by Ch100) because it isn’t instantly set up the way I want to use it out of the box, and I’m learning a whole new computer language it seems, but look forward to a more stable and private system, going at my own pace (slowly).

I think I mentioned CentOS as something that I would use. It was not meant for everyone.
For someone less interested in the technicalities of Linux, something less transparent and pre-configured to a larger extent may be more useful. I think a lot of Linux users mentioned here Linux Mint. Ubuntu might be another good option for someone who is more used to the “home user” paradigm applying to them.

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AlanH, Elly

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@Ch100- I think you mentioned CentOS as something I might take a look at, given its stability and my issues with Windows.  I’m not trying to put you on the spot or misquote you, and you certainly aren’t responsible for any troubles I might encounter… I appreciated your expertise and advice, and have been expanding my understanding of what an operating system does and how it works from there. I don’t agree with your views on telemetry, but you are an active and knowledgeable part of this community… and if we (non-techy or terminally paranoid) test your patience at times, I’ve never seen you be hurtful towards anyone. If anything, I’ve seen you willing to explain your approach more clearly, giving me a much better understanding about what the issues are and the probable consequences of my decisions, which is exactly what I’m looking for. I appreciate that greatly.

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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RamRod, ch100

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@Elly

Are you doing cut/paste from word? It carries a lot of HTML with it. Try making it text first and see it that helps.

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lizzytish, Elly, ch100

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Yes, and I can see it was a problem. Sorry about that. Really not trying to cause extra work.

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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satrow

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Yes, I too have been fiddling with that bit of it when I’ve copied & pasted a quote, then submitted it to find that html added……. so had to go back in and write in rather than paste…. didn’t happen before when in beta or even the old style blog……. so was wondering.  Now I know what to do………………. thanks!    LT

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Elly

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Sometimes people are anonymous because they don’t know the ins and outs. It is possible to register with a throw-away e-mail address, and have it expire in an hour.

For those, like me, that had no idea these existed, here is an article that reviews six of the services: http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/best-sites-for-creating-a-disposable-email-address/

You need one that allows you to read the reply e-mail so that you receive the initial password that allows you to log in. Once you log in,  your chosen name (can’t be the same as anyone elses) shows up at the top left right, welcoming you to the Lounge.

If you click on your name there, you will go to your profile. From there you can click on edit, and your user name and e-mail will show up under account information. Woody, da boss, and the MVPs (I think) are the only ones that can see the account information. There is a place to change your password, but your password doesn’t show to anyone. My account information shows my name is Elly, and the e-mail that I used to create the account… but I can change that, or ignore it if it was a disposable e-mail account. There are other optional fields, and you can put as much or as little information there as you want to show up in your profile. Your profile can show your expertise, and interests and ways to contact on social media… or it can be blank except for your user name. Notice that mine is blank. I’m one of those people that have privacy issues… I was very cautious and slow to move from anonymous to being Elly.

When you are logged in, you can choose to be remembered next time, which sets a cookie. If you wipe your cookies in your browser, you won’t be remembered.

The site keeps track of certain things when you are logged in, like how many topics or replies you make, and your “karma” (see https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/how-does-one-get-karma/),  but that isn’t data that is linked with your Facebook account or anything else, and Woody isn’t selling it to anyone. It is for using the site, allowing interactions, and allowing people to see at a glance the kind of expert they might be talking advice from. Woody needs advertising to help pay for the site (you could do your part, and donate, too). Advertising does do some tracking all over the web, whether you sign in or not. Some people that would otherwise use ad blockers have white-listed the Lounge, doing their part to support the site. Advertising tracking is a lot bigger discussion than staying anonymous on this site.

I’ve never received any spam e-mail from this site. One of the benefits of logging in is that you can subscribe to a topic and have e-mail notifications of replies to your areas of interest. That is especially helpful if you’ve asked a question. On occassion my email program will tag e-mail from here as spam, and I will have to reassign it. I learned to check because some people have their initial registration e-mail tagged as spam, and think they haven’t received it. This site is pretty responsive, so always check your spam box if you aren’t getting a registration reply back. I’ve not only gotten good, solid information here, I’ve found way more speedy responsiveness than even tech support sites!

I’m not techy, just walking newcomers through the process I learned by trial and error. It is important to check out what information is gathered and used by a website, and I understand caution. Lots of people come here because they don’t know something about their Windows computer or updating problems. Woody is the author of Windows 10 for Dummies… but I started reading his books years ago, long before I knew about this site. It really surprised me to realize that the go-to reference book sitting next to my computer at all times was written by him. I was a real Dummy! He has never made me feel like I was stupid for wanting to know.

So maybe some of those anonymous users will decide to sign up, finding that they are returning over and over, have questions, or want to make comments, thank someone, etc… but I do respect that there are valid reasons for remaining anonymous and am grateful that Woody allows that option, and that my questions were answered even when I was anonymous… for years…

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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Steve, AlanH, Lori, HiFlyer, lizzytish, woody, PKCano

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Hi,

Sorry I’m late to this discussion, but I’ve just come across it and I’ve got a query regarding the first graphic in Elly’s post (Elly.jpg).

When I login I don’t see anything similar – should I? Blushing, and offering apologies in advance, I have to admit that I’m using IE11, in case that makes any difference. 🙂

AusJohn

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@ausjohn
That screenshot Elly shows first is from the top right hand panel, after logging in. It should be on every page you browse to.
When you click on your name (either in that link, or in any of your posts) it allows you to get to the second screenshot.
Let us know if you strike any difficulties 🙂

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Hi Kirsty,

Thanks! Got it now – think I’m going blind in my old age.

All’s good – until next time, when I’ve forgotten about it and can’t see for looking! 🙂

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IE11 has one of the best security models, though it’s not set to particularly secure settings right out of the box. Certainly nothing to be ashamed of. I use it myself almost exclusively.

Here’s what I see in IE11…

-Noel

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Thanks! So do I.

Like I said in reply to Kirsty – got it now – think I’m going blind in my old age.

– AusJohn

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@ Elly

Reply To 98894

This is a 3rd Anonymous Post by NightOwl–testing Cookies being set in Chrome.

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Elly

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@NightOwl –

You might want to try this testing by using your “Test” Topic….

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Elly

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@ Woody

NightOwl replying anonymously–anonymous reply #5:

Woody wrote:

@nightowl –

You might want to try this testing by using your “Test” Topic….

I would, if I could … but, I don’t have access to the Test Topic when replying anonymously!

Gathering some final information before discussing my results …

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@NightOwl
I’m pretty sure you do…
https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/test-topic-2/
🙂

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@ Kirsty

Kirsty wrote:

@nightowl
I’m pretty sure you do…
https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/test-topic-2/

I stand corrected.

Forgot about that Test Topic!

Thought Woody was referring to the MVP Test Topic!

Can you help me find that can of soup in the pantry? I know I put it there somewhere 😉 , maybe it’s in the cupboard!

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Just Lurking wrote:

Can you help me find that can of soup in the pantry?

Probably either up high or down low, behind something else?! Personally, I lose mine in the freezer (allergies mean I need to cook my own soup).
🙂

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@ Elly

Reply to Reply # 98894
This is a 2nd Anonymous Reply by NightOwl using Chrome (Anonymous Reply # 4).

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

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I registered at Woody’s about 2 weeks ago, and then registered at WordPress Gravatar. I used the same email address. Within a few days I began receiving p0rn spam in an account that had never gotten spammed.

XXX Book  “Easily Find Local XXX to F____

Did not make me happy. Went and got a 1-week junk forwarding address from jetable.org

Now that’s what both WordPress and Woody’s has. I think the spam came from WordPress-Gravatar. They can keep their Gravatar.

3 users thanked author for this post.

HiFlyer, woody, Elly

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Email me – woody@askwoody.com – and I’ll manually change your account’s email address.

This is really troubling. Has anybody else found spam that can be traced to Gravatar? (I assume it isn’t us, as our database hasn’t been hacked and I never, ever hand out email addresses. To anybody. Ever.)

3 users thanked author for this post.

HiFlyer, lizzytish, Elly

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woody wrote:

This is really troubling. Has anybody else found spam that can be traced to Gravatar? (I assume it isn’t us, as our database hasn’t been hacked and I never, ever hand out email addresses. To anybody. Ever.)

No fresh spam here as a result of joining up with WordPress and Gravatar in mid December ’16, on a free email account dating back ~19 years that I have a very good handle on. With fewer than 2 most days and probably ~9 per week, I’d soon notice any increase/variation.

3 users thanked author for this post.

HiFlyer, Elly, woody

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I’ve been a Gravatar member for years — over 10, I think — having signed up when I used to write two blogs per week on WordPress (both non-techy), and have never noticed getting any spam traceable to Gravatar or WordPress. I’m still a member of both and list my real, main e-mail address.

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Every registered user’s gravatar contains a hash of their eMail address (yes, even the ones who have chosen the generic silhouette), and the potential issue comes from your personal gravatar having been shown on other web pages and indexed by web crawlers when seen there. Presuming you could do a search of the hash, you could get a list of someone’s online travails. It looks like Google refuses to turn up matches to gravatar hashes now. Whether other engines do is unknown.

If someone were to steal the database from the gravatar company that would, of course, be a big list of addresses. You chance theft of your data any time you provide it to anyone. That’s life in modern times.

Regarding your eMail address being used…

I personally have used the same eMail for 13 years now and don’t have an unreasonable spam load. Virtually none actually gets to my inbox to bother me. I only mention that because if I can do it then it seems possible to overcome any amount of spam fully.

However, if you’re still concerned with whether your eMail gets out to others via gravatar’s hash being cracked, you could do as frapper above has done and use a temporary / burner eMail account to register, which you can monitor but which isn’t your primary personal account.

Managing your online life is a staple of the 21st century.

-Noel

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

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Doing a bit more research on whether an eMail address can practically be derived from a gravatar, I see that a savvy engineer thought through the problem and just using the information that the hash is generated from an eMail address was able to develop algorithms that derived the original eMail address from a significant portion – yet minority – of 80,000+ real gravatars downloaded from a user list.

http://www.developer.it/post/gravatars-why-publishing-your-email-s-hash-is-not-a-good-idea

His conclusion:

Overall, gravatars seem to be one of the many web services where one gives up some information and privacy for being part of a community. At least, be aware of what you are giving up.

-Noel

4 users thanked author for this post.

HiFlyer, Elly, woody, satrow

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MD5 hash is not secure now. See Noel C’s comment about registered users who don’t use the service. Then there is the tracking issue. Wonder if there should be any avatars at all?

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I use a dedicated e-mail address for my registration here. It has only been used for AskWoody’s blog, and now the Lounge. I have never, ever, ever received any spam. 🙂

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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Anonymous commenter here: I would like to say, for the record, that I have long been a fan of Woody’s – i.e., since well before this blog was started – and I was delighted to read that the website was being started up. Well done! However, since I also have long enjoyed anonymity as a matter of principle, I have refrained from registering on this blog or any other blogs, though I am an anonymous member of several useful closed groups – software discussion/support forums.

It might be better if this blog was linked to (say) WordPress, where I have an anonymous avatar that I keep especially for making anonymous comments to blogs and which keeps a record of all such posts and responses, and which I could use to make comments to this blog, but no such facility seems to currently exist to do this on this blog, nor does it appear to be a planned move either.

I dislike any attempts to coerce me to register regardless, couched as they seem to be in terms that point out clearly that anonymous posters are to be deliberately disadvantaged by not being registered. This seems to me to be an almost infantile and threatening approach to take to one’s reading and voluntary audience – trying to make people give up their preferred relative anonymity and conform to the monetisation needs of the webesite, or something.

At the moment, I keep askwoody in my feed aggregator and I never miss a post, but if I read much more of this registration compulsion nonsense coming from the website, I shall just delete the website from my aggregator as I dislike being harassed with tiresome nagging and it is not for me.

I will quite understand if this post is not allowed by moderators. My intention is to make a point to the Webmaster, not start a public debate, and I do not ask for nor expect a reply. Thank you for reading (assuming it is being read.)

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

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I’m sure we will miss you ………. but how will we know you’re gone?

10 users thanked author for this post.

Alice, ScotchJohn, Noel Carboni, Doc, HiFlyer, PhotM, Elly, Microfix, ch100, woody

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b wrote:

I’m sure we will miss you ………. but how will we know you’re gone?

Are you from the Monty Python team? I’ve never laughed so much in ages, the more I think about it, the funnier it gets.

Upvote for your astute comment sir or madam 🙂

Edit: Thank you for a huge fit of laughter without any alcohol.

If debian is good enough for NASA...

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

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I was never here … 😛

back to fishing for better dreams

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anonymous wrote:

It might be better if this blog was linked to (say) WordPress, where I have an anonymous avatar that I keep especially for making anonymous comments to blogs and which keeps a record of all such posts and responses, and which I could use to make comments to this blog, but no such facility seems to currently exist to do this on this blog, nor does it appear to be a planned move either.

Ah, but we ARE linked to WordPress. We’re using the bbPress add-on for WordPress. Just link your account here to your anonymous avatar (which is no doubt stored in Gravatar, the WordPress avatar manager), and you’ll be fine!

Registering has absolutely no connection to monetizing this site. None.

anonymous wrote:

anonymous posters are to be deliberately disadvantaged by not being registered.

Not sure I understand. Anonymous posters have to wait for moderation – but that’s true on any site that doesn’t rapidly descend into knuckle-dragging barbarism.

1 user thanked author for this post.

HiFlyer

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The specific reason I do not use Gravatar is that it then links my email address. I do not want that.

If you will provide me with details on how to create a WordPress anonymous avatar, I just might do that.

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You don’t need to use a Gravatar to register at AskWoody, some of the MVPs haven’t and neither have many of the regular Members. Gravatars are strictly optional 😉

6 users thanked author for this post.

Ascaris, Elly, Microfix, ch100, woody, Kirsty

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anonymous wrote:

It might be better if this blog was linked to (say) WordPress, where I have an anonymous avatar that I keep especially for making anonymous comments

That’s my sticking point. Gravatar links avatars to WordPress sites. If you’re using WordPress (as we are) the only (stock) way to set up avatars is through Gravatar. (I don’t want to get into storing custom avatars!)

Use of Gravatar is completely optional. But if you want an avatar to appear here, you have to go through Gravatar.

If you have an anonymous avatar in Gravatar, it’s linked to an email address. Doesn’t have to be a good, valid address that you check all the time. It’s just an address.

If you register on this site (or any other standard WordPress site), you need to provide an email address. Just use the email address that’s stored in Gravatar, and WordPress magically connects the dots, pulling your avatar from the Gravatar site.

When you register, you’ll be sent an email confirmation and you have to click on the link in that confirmation in order to become a registered user. You never, ever need to use that email address again, unless you lose your password. (If you lose a password, you have to enter your email address. WordPress generates a new random password and emails you a link to verify it.)

@Elly’s method of using burner email addresses (a practice I’ve endorsed heartily for many years when setting up Microsoft accounts!) works like a champ, unless you forget your password. But if you forget your password, you can always set up a new account.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with using a burner email account on AskWoody.

– woody@askwoody.com (also phineasfaarquahrt@hotmail.com, mxyzptlk2@hotmail.com, ineedawindowsliveid@live.com, and several dozen additional accounts which I never check)

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

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I participate in several “comment” sections at various Websites on a variety of subjects, some of which mostly consist of “knuckle-dragging barbarism.” (Sorry, Woody, but I love that representation.) Especially those having to do with religion, politics, culture, and just about anything else on the Internet! 🙂

I surely don’t want my identity or a real e-mail address known by anyone in those places, so I mask my e-mail addresses using Abine’s Blur. It’s easy to set up masked addresses and works great. If interested, you can go here:

https://dnt.abine.com/#login/dashboard

and register. I’m sure it will work just fine here in the Lounge, too, if you have a need to keep your identity and real e-mail address hidden and safe. You would then have all the benefits available in the Lounge, by posting with an alias and masked e-mail instead of anonymously.

I also use KeePass Password Safe 1.xx to manage my many strong, hardened passwords. I couldn’t live without a password manager. There are several good ones out there.

2 users thanked author for this post.

HiFlyer, Elly

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I support anonymous posting, and have no issues with it, but understand if others are frustrated when faced with multiple anonymous replies that go off in different directions. Everyone starts to feel a bit daft at that point. I’ve never had any trouble not getting an answer when posting anonymously, and I did that for years. There is an increase in the number of postings compared to before the format was changed to a forum from a blog, and therefore, more anonymous to get lost in.

That said, there is the gravatar icon issue… which some have said yes to, and some have firmly said no… Strange as that sounds, it is consistent with widely differing views held by people here.

An alternative to identifying with an icon would be to have a unique “signature”. You can create one if you register, by going to your profile.

Maybe some people, after reading or participating in this discussion, will decide to register. Some will stay anonymous. Maybe some of the people who were impatient with anonymous posting will understand why it is an important option and step up when faced with another anonymous post. Please don’t confuse discussion and opinion as Woody’s policy. His policy has been to stay open to anonymous posting, even in this new environment. After all, his very first sentence in starting this topic was,

“I built the Lounge with the strong conviction that everyone be heard – whether they’re willing to identify themselves or not. I still think the ability to post anonymously is a key capability here on the Lounge.”

Not everyone agrees with Woody, but there it is…

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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(not addressed to anyone in particular)

I think there may be some confusion here about what a site does, vs. what is done with registered account data…

Almost all web sites – registered account or no – construct what they present to you from a number of different online servers. I have observed that just visiting AskWoody.com’s main page causes all the servers listed below to attempt to be contacted. Without doing an in-depth analysis of the site coding I have noted what it looks like is being retrieved…

Scripts, page formatting layout, site content:
www.askwoody.com

Scripts, font(s), and page style information:
maxcdn.bootstrapcdn.com

Small avatar images for various registered users (containing an MD5 hash of your registered eMail even if you have the generic gray one selected):
secure.gravatar.com

1 x 1 pixel transparent GIF image, presumably so your IP address is logged on a PayPal server:
www.paypalobjects.com

Ad delivery:
ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com

Ad delivery:
z-na.amazon-adsystem.com

Scripts that track your browsing:
www.googletagservices.com

Smiley graphics:
s.w.org

Typically sites contact more than one 3rd party site, and sometimes quite a few! It depends on the site coding, and Woody’s is not particularly special. Don’t get me wrong – some of the above contacts are there expressly to track what you’re doing. Others deliver ads AND track you, and some just deliver useful data. The list of servers can and does differ from page to page or even minute to minute. Yes, this is complex stuff.

Also note that the above list may be truncated from what others see – allowing the ad and tracking sites (which I don’t) would no doubt bring in scripts that would add even MORE contacts, tracking, etc. To display Woody’s home page I saw my browser make 152 separate requests. I wonder how many others who do allow the ads and tracking see.

Bottom line: Web usage generally involves sending information to 3rd party sites – i.e. other than the one from which you’re looking to read content from. Even a request for information causes some information to be sent so, for example, vrtually every web server contacted logs your IP address. Not all use that information for anything other than a historical record, but sometimes they do.

Now for the important part…

All of the above actually has very little to do with whether you’ve created an account on AskWoody.com!

By registering here and logging in (explicitly or implicitly through a cookie) you will have placed an eMail address on file, so that you can be contacted directly if needed. That’s the reason you’re asked to register, so that a pathway exists for communication to you from site management should they want to talk to you.

By simply providing that eMail communication path you are given the privilege of your posts being immediately put online. It’s a VERY small price to pay for almost everyone.

The only connection I can see is really that your registered eMail address is used to create the gravatar request, and others could potentially pull it out and ultimately decode it. Then they have… An eMail address. Doesn’t seem like that big a deal to me.

Still, if you don’t want to take advantage of the privilege of immediate visibility, you may post “anonymously” and someone has to read what you say before it is allowed to be shown on the forum.

Now, if you have gone to extraordinary lengths (e.g., by using a browsing proxy server) to hide your true IP address, then not overtly identifying yourself by logging-in might seem like a helpful step in protecting your privacy. But if not – and most people don’t go to such lengths – don’t kid yourself into thinking that the origin of your communications isn’t known, registered account or no!

And if you’re worried about registering leading to spam eMail… I can tell you, from personal experience, that it’s entirely possible to be registered here (and at any number of other online forums) using a permanent personal eMail address and still not have junk mail regularly show up in your inbox. I get some filed into a junk eMail folder, but I don’t see any evidence that it’s gone up since registering here.

Do NOT think of posting “anonymously” as a way to be able to say things (e.g., nasty or inflammatory) that you would not choose to say to someone face to face in polite conversation. It just doesn’t work that way here!

-Noel

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

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“and most people don’t go to such lengths”
Downloading Tor Browser is just as easy as downloading Firefox or Chrome. In fact it might be a lot easier for folks without javascript or mouse. 🙂

I either post anonymously or not post at all. It is very disappointing that the first case sometimes requires me to ‘spam’ a site with 1-post accounts. I am glad I don’t have to do that here. Thank you woody and the MVPs who accepted my posts!

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anonymous wrote:

I dislike any attempts to coerce me to register regardless, couched as they seem to be in terms that point out clearly that anonymous posters are to be deliberately disadvantaged by not being registered. This seems to me to be an almost infantile and threatening approach to take to one’s reading and voluntary audience – trying to make people give up their preferred relative anonymity and conform to the monetisation needs of the webesite, or something.

No one is accusing you personally of not being responsible enough to write nice posts.

However, places where just anyone can post just anything “anonymously” without moderation are quite infantile, and not nice places to be. Not at all, and that’s simply not acceptable here. So moderation is a reality, and per Woody’s choice the moderation has to happen BEFORE potentially nasty stuff gets published. I think it’s a good choice myself.

So… If you’re feeling “coerced”, please try to think about the folks who have volunteered to read and approve all anonymous posts instead, and the things they’d rather be doing with their time.

-Noel

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

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b wrote:

Canadian Tech wrote:

You should understand that you cannot ask a question as anonymous.

And yet Elly says that’s the primary reason to remain anonymous:

Elly wrote:

Advantages of being anonymous… 1) You are just getting a question answered, and aren’t here for anything more. Why register if you aren’t coming by this way again?

That’s because I’ve had reason to be anonymous (for some years) and never had difficulty having a question answered using that mode. Until testing and then moving to the new Lounge format I’d never heard this discussed here. However, I’m extremely motivated to protect privacy, and can understand how being anonymous can be a necessity… and I understand why it could be a choice by principal. When Woody had to moderate each and every reply, he could answer right then and there. Now, there are postings all over the place, and other people might be responding, and obviously they don’t have the same perspective. Some people may decide not to respond to anonymous questions… they are free to do that. I’m hoping that no one will be discouraged from asking… usually I get a lot from the people who’ve figured out how to ask what I need to know, but didn’t know how to say it.

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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Gravatar (et al)

“Each time you visit a site which pull cute little avatar images aside (typically) a commenter’s name, there is a corresponding request to Gravatar’s web site, and the HTTP referer header contains the site you are visiting. The tracking potential is too much for me, so I block all these requests:

||gravatar.com^$third-party

It’s unclear if, and how much this breaks things. But will prevent your browsing habits to be disclosed to gravatar.com. We can live without these cute thumbnails, can’t we?

But this applies to any domain which is ubiquitous enough, gravatar.com is just one example among so many.”

From gorhill’s wiki (author of uBlock Origin addon). A most respected source. Those who have had no problems with this are fortunate, and maybe to some, it’s not that big a deal.
Certainly, you shouldn’t get paranoid if you have used the avatar, it’s good to be aware of these things, though.

(Nice to know with Woody that it is optional). I figure by hitting reply to a post number, this will reply to the person I want it to, pretty sure it does!)

This has started an interesting conversation, Thanks Elly and others for your input.
CT’s comment stuck in my craw, and I love reading his posts. ch100 has often illuminated the inner workings of Windows to me. As I say, each to their own.

The coercion you mention is most probably unconscious group social mindset. No offense to posters here. It just happens in groups. The Lounge is a great new idea, and I may not post again, I seem to have upset the apple cart.

Happy to post as Semi-Anon, and not B!

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

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The sad things in days past, present and future, the more popular things get on the internet, the more of a target they become. WordPress is certainly popular and receives great support and security from the developers but, gravitar it’s like a plug-in, optional and a potential security risk that miscreants would look at as a backdoor to their wicked ways.

Below is one such plug-in exploit reported a few days ago:

here

In 15 or so years of various fora, I’ve only used avatars that I can upload direct to the forum server with no third party risks whatsoever and won’t entertain any other method.

I still like my Arabic Arch Avatar

If debian is good enough for NASA...

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

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Did you see the security post about Gravatar from the AskWoody Central topic?
I chose to stick with the monochrome “snowman” figure 🙂

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

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Kirsty wrote:

Did you see the security post about Gravatar from the AskWoody Central topic?

If you scroll down on that page, you will see my comment and that i did indeed see the security post.

If debian is good enough for NASA...

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Sorry, I had read that you had decided to keep the default avatar, but hadn’t read into that that you had read the article. 🙂

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Microfix wrote:

Below is one such plug-in exploit reported a few days ago: here

And therein lies the problem. The exploit referenced is in a WordPress plugin called NextGEN. The more plugins I use here, the greater the security risk. If I tried to build or use my own plugin for avatars, I’d be pasting a “Kick Me” sign on the site.

I don’t lose any sleep over it because the only data stored here is an email address and a multi-encrypted password. As mentioned many times above, those who are concerned about such things can use a burner email address.

3 users thanked author for this post.

PhotM, HiFlyer, Microfix

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Yup Woody, agreed, the more plug-ins the higher the security risk with anything really.

It’s totally at the end-users discretion. ‘Optional with ramifications’ was posted on another forum as a get out clause.

If debian is good enough for NASA...

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I must commend you all for your thorough investigation and analysis of anonymous posting.
As Elly most eloquently shared, there are situations outside of the political sphere that force people to take measures that appear unreasonable or illogical to others. Most victims don’t disclose their personal hell as it is difficult for others to grasp the myriad of dangers involved.

Neil Carboni has given a good technical overview of registered and non-registered. It depends on how you have hardened your system.

I add my own ‘personal reasons,which are not technical reasons’ for posting as anonymous…

I am registered on several techie forums under a pseudonym. I never use my actual name as the member ID and that in itself is a form of anonymous posting. I know my IP gets logged as soon as I post by first post, registered or not. On the forums, I only use my member ID to post tech advise to maintain accountability. If I am only participating in the exchange of ideas (e.g. a commenting or offering an opinion on an assertion) , I post as anonymous. Other techies do this too. I found (a personal observation only) that it keeps the focus on the content and away from the intimidation that certain status seekers have on some forums.

I enjoy this forum for its informal and friendly atmosphere. As Windows Updates is not my field of expertise, I come here to check out what minefields await me. I post as anonymous for that reason. Sometimes I comment and sometimes I ask questions.

I was aghast to see that there was a belief by your MVPs that they were not obliged to respond to questions from anonymous posters. Sorry guys, but every post has a REPLY button. On a forum you can always respond to the ‘point that was raised’, rather than to an individual. That said, I see that all the MVPs jumped in and investigated the issue with gusto. Kudos to you all (Karmas if I could send them).

2 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, AlexEiffel

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CT replying to anonymous….

It is not that I will not reply to a question from anonymous, but rather have limited motivation to do so. I think a bit of explanation is called for….

All of us are anonymous including me, CT. (you can probably guess I am Canadian) Note that you can reply to CT and you and I know of a singularity that represents. Over time, you and others will gain a bit of insight as to what and how I do what I do, my level of expertise and hints of my beliefs. That gives you a kind of profile that makes answering a question more meaningful. For example, if you have been following me here in this forum, you probably know that I am a group C (W) person and look after 150 client computers, and have no interest in Windows 10. Another example, I now know Elly has been a victim of abuse, and that conditions her/his needs for privacy.

When anonymous asks a question, I have no idea of what/which anonymous that is so it is just one amorphous, unknown blob of a person. I have no idea of your level of expertise or anything about your profile.

When anonymous answers a question, I have no hint about the background of that person. Consequently my answer must be conditioned on assumptions.

I have a profile on file on the Microsoft answers forum and you are welcome and indeed invited to read it. I would like to be able to read yours too. It makes answering questions more rewarding because those answers become part of a continuum. In fact, an optional profile on this forum would be a nice addition.

3 users thanked author for this post.

Ascaris, Elly, woody

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Sorry for the confused lack of identity in my posting. I did not realize that I had become logged out.

CT

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

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Good to see that you too can post as anonymous and not get confused by who sent the post.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

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anonymous wrote:

I was aghast to see that there was a belief by your MVPs that they were not obliged to respond to questions from anonymous posters.

Naw, the MVPs (and I) respond when we have the knowledge and time to do so. We’re anonymous-neutral.

AlexEiffel wrote:

I don’t have any problem with responding to anonymous posts. I think everybody can post something that can trigger a chain of information that can be useful to lots of others.

Yes, that’s precisely the case. We get some VERY good information – and nudges – from anonymous posters.

Noel Carboni wrote:

The problem is that some choose to heckle from behind a screen of anonymity.

And that, alas, is the crux of the problem.

4 users thanked author for this post.

Ascaris, Elly, ch100, PhotM

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I for one make no distinction whatsoever between anonymous posts and member posts when I am thinking of replying to a post.  If I have something to offer, I post; if not, I don’t.  Anonymous posters have, as Woody said, often given valuable information here that we would not have had otherwise.

Of course, registering doesn’t immediately make a person more privy to accurate information.  There’s no way to know right off the bat whether a given anonymous post is a treasure or a travesty… you have to read it and find out.  That’s the thing right there… people who have a known track record of providing good info get a reputation as such, and the person who has had the question answered by that person can take that into account, and use it as a yardstick to estimate how credible the answer is.  That’s not to say that you should always believe everything any given person says; we are all human and humans make mistakes.  It just means you’re getting info from someone who you know to be conscientious and meticulous– or not.

I’ve made mistakes in some of the things I have written here.  I do my best to dispense accurate info, but I welcome any corrections– if I have a wrong idea in my head, I want to have that corrected so that I can do better next time.  I will often go back and edit my older posts when I remember that I’ve written something that I have now discovered is not quite right (generally I will add an overstrike to the lines that are not right, and I will write in the correction after that, so that people can have a reference of what the original post said (which replies may reference) as well as the better info.

With anonymous posters, you don’t know any of that.  If the anonymous poster is willing to accept that, then they certainly have the option to continue to be anonymous, with the understanding that people will not be able to connect what they wrote in any one message to what they wrote in any other message unless they claim the posts (like “I’m the anonymous poster who started this thread” or “I’m the one who wrote reply #45436” or similar).  As long as they accept that, and as long as Woody wants to keep it going, by all means, post anonymously.   And if you’re going to give yourself a handle to connect your anonymous posts together, you can do that too, but at that point IMO you may as well register– you don’t have to use your real name for that either.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

2 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, satrow

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Very well put Ascaris. Let me add that when I see a question or a statement from Anonymous, I have a lot of difficulty responding to it. If people use a moniker, after awhile, I develop a bit of understanding who I am listening/talking to.

CT

2 users thanked author for this post.

satrow, Ascaris

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Maybe I differ from other registered users, but I don’t have any problem with responding to anonymous posts. I think everybody can post something that can trigger a chain of information that can be useful to lots of others.

I wasn’t sure I wanted to register, but I used a throwable email and I don’t regret doing it. There are many advantages to registering and it makes less of a burden to MVPs. However, I really appreciate that I never felt coerced into registering and although I understand that sometimes it can be frustrating to not know who you are talking to, I think this place should remain open to anonymous posts as a lot of them are contributing greatly, even if sometimes it is just by asking a good question. If you don’t like anonymous posts, nobody forces you to respond, but I think nobody should be blamed for posting anonymously.

For those that hesitate about registering, may I suggest you simply sign at the end of your post a simple name you choose for a particular topic to appease the people who would like to track the conversation and then choose another name for another topic? It doesn’t require much more effort than a regular anonymous posts and only identifies you for the purpose of a single topic conversation.

And if you want to remain completely anonymous anyway for whatever reason, I am fine with that, although I understand maybe the MVPs would prefer less work. I think one of the things that make this community rich is the fact there are a lot of interesting information brought both by registered and anonymous posters and I think it would be a mistake to loose anonymous posters by singling them out.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, Noel Carboni

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I have one small issue with SOME “anonymous” posters – and CERTAINLY NOT ALL of them.

The problem is that some choose to heckle from behind a screen of anonymity.

If they see someone or something they don’t like they shout things out. Sometimes they do so in a vulgar way – those are of course easily moderated out of existence. And sometimes they do it in a subtle way, not vulgar but just irritating. That’s not easy to deal with.

To get an idea of what I am talking about, imagine a small child who does nothing but ask “Why?” as a response to everything he or she is told. The child’s goal isn’t to be part of the conversation at all, but just to elicit a reaction, even possibly to disrupt the conversation entirely.

After tolerating a bit of this you might sit that child down and explain to them that it’s not acceptable to keep asking “Why?”. Exclusion from conversations entirely might even be used as a punishment.

Now imagine what you’d do if you couldn’t identify that child. “Why?” is just continually shouted in through a doorway. You now begin to sense one practical reason forum sites strive to identify contributors, and to add some accountability. It’s not always to make money by selling their eMail addresses.

I appreciate it when people – choosing to use their own identity or an assumed one or posting anonymously – communicate respectfully and politely online, as though we are all in the same room and can see one another’s faces. Good people sharing experiences is the greatest part of the Internet.

-Noel

9 users thanked author for this post.

JohnS1606, Steve, Elly, ch100, PhotM, woody, Microfix, satrow, Canadian Tech

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I agree with that. On the flip side, I think some registered users do a bit of this subtle behavior too. Being registered, you can put it in context better as CT eloquently described, but I found that even if sometimes the why is close to when not deliberate trolling, it sometimes helps make our points more rigorous or explicit and helps clarify issues because it makes you have to present your implicit assumptions.

It is not always easy to be aware of our own biases and sometimes a radically diverging opinion helps us realize that what we take for granted might not be that obvious to everyone. Of course, if you end up repeating yourself over and over, it is a problem and then maybe we should refer to some previous posts at that point. Anonymous posting has this drawback that you don’t know if it is a new person asking the same thing. There have been a few instances when I didn’t respond because I felt it was not useful, but sometimes I still got something out of the dissenting opinion. Sometimes it tells me I haven’t wrote very clearly, which can be a challenge to me since I am not native English speaker. Sometimes, people responded for me and brought very interesting points to the discussion, too!

I often ask “why” and maybe it can also be irritating, but I find the why useful to understand better the people and what they say and because although I throw ideas a bit loosely here quite often, when someone makes what I find a confident assertion, I like to understand why they are so sure of it to help make up my own mind about the subject.

When it comes to tuning Windows, I personnally find there is a lot of I think it should be better that way, but not much it definitely is better that way for everyone. I often found Microsoft’s official recommendations not necessarily the best for my situation, as sometimes they try to minimize issues for people with legacy software or hardware but in doing so are not suggesting what is optimal for power users or sometimes they can be motivated by their business needs more than their users needs.

It is difficult to have the right balance of brainstorm opinion type of comments and rigorous fact-only comments, because I find both have their place to foster better understanding of loose ideas like what is the market for Windows, what we should expect in the future and how people might react to it vs what is doable in the current context that we have been dealt with.

In any case, I find it very refreshing to see here people that are not just pushing that latest touch bar on a laptop because they have nothing better to talk about or that are simply repeat MS PR as to why Windows 10 is the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel.

Of course, I am quite new to the forum, so I might realize later how tiring it can be to recevie some of the same objections by anonymous posters, but I am still very impressed by the quality of the information and opinions I find here, from people with very different background, and that makes me want to contribute in any way I can. If I end up unhappy about preceived subtle trolling, then I will simply not respond as I think this is the best way to not reward attention seeking behavior. Isn’t that behavioral theory that if you don’t reinforce a behavior, it tends to disappear more than if you punish it or inconsistently reward it?

In any case, I find we must be careful not to scare anonymous users away, as I truly believe their overall contribution exceeds the negatives.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

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If everyone adopted the view that we are posting to and for children in order to learn, whether anonymous or not, things would be so much simpler.

Noel, you have my utmost respect as your previous post summed it all up for us. In all fairness, whether you are an MVP, anonymous poster or a member, we are all still learning, which can be frustrating at times.

Please remember that children interested in computers also view this forum and that we are teaching them and not just the adults.

If debian is good enough for NASA...

2 users thanked author for this post.

lizzytish, Elly

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woody wrote:

keep the quality of posts out of the shallow end of the gene pool

Woody, you still have a certain way with the language — more power to ya!

JohnS1606

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Was having trouble signing up since I wasn’t receiving the verification mail to my Hotmail inbox. Posted as Anonymous and that worked, though still under mod.

Switched to using Yahoo e-mail and finally got logged in. Is there a mod here I can contact who can approve my old thread, so I can copy / paste it into one under my name? (Then delete it after)

Moderator’s Note – done now! hopefully you’re all set, finally

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BobT wrote:

Switched to using Yahoo e-mail and finally got logged in. Is there a mod here I can contact who can approve my old thread, so I can copy / paste it into one under my name? (Then delete it after)

Your first post as a registered user has to be moderated. But we are unable to moderate this reply at the moment.

Check back when you find this has been published, and leave us a link to the one did as anonymous. (Or your anon post will be moderated by then most likely and you can transfer the info).

1 user thanked author for this post.

BobT

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Sorry for the zombie thread revival, but there is one feature addition you should consider that would save the mods some work and reduce the rate of unintentional anonymous posting. Most of the relatively few websites that allow anonymous posting remind users, when they click a Submit button while not logged in, that they are about to post anonymously and give them a choice to log in or post anonymously.

I’ve never posted anonymously here by intent, but I’ve done it a bunch of times inadvertently.

Here there is no reminder and no chance to correct one’s forgetting to log in. All you see when you’re not logged in and click Submit is a message that your carefully worded post has been sent off to mod land and may appear at some point in the future. It’s very frustrating. I’ve tried green lighting Woodycookies, but I get logged out anyway sometimes.

2 users thanked author for this post.

SkipH, Ascaris

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Teuhasn, you are absolutely correct. I have had that happen to many times too. The problem for me was that somehow, I was logged out in spite of the fact that I clicked the stay logged on box. Periodically, for no reason, the server logs me out. I post and do not realize that I am not logged on until I see that I am not AFTER I clicked the submit button.

CT

3 users thanked author for this post.

Ascaris, zero2dash, teuhasn

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This site lobs me occasionally despite attempts to stay logged in. Not a problem if you are paying attention. 🙂

cheers, Paul

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@ teuhasn

Sometimes folks are logged out whenever they close their browser if they have things set to clear the browser cache when the browser is shut down, and the cookies are cleared with it.

But, I do not clear my cookies, and elect to have AskWoody website to *Remember* my log in, and I still get logged out fairly regularly–have to watch the settings to know.

I’m not sure, but I think the website software does not set the log-in cookie properly, and it has an early expiration date, and one gets logged out sooner than later. It’s hard to decide which cookie is the log-in cookie, but most of the cookies being set by the website have a 1 day expiration date. So the next time you close your browser, those cookies should be deleted, and you will be logged out if it’s the log-in cookie.

Only the cookies that have the word *tracking* as part of their name have a long term expiration date–Aug, 2019 (as of today)–I guess that has to be expected.

But, as you have observed, the software does not have the function to warn you if you are posting and not logged in–something you have to monitor on your own.

1 user thanked author for this post.

teuhasn

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Could someone (preferably Woody) explain the rationale for allowing anonymous posts?

You can’t block them, can’t thank them, and if more than one answers a question you have, you can’t even indicate which ‘voice’ you may have follow-up questions for.

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Oh, the irony! 😉

Loungers can thank them – they can’t thank. And they have the ability to sign their contributions, as many do (i.e. AnneMarie, Back to fishing for better dreams, ? says, etc.)

As to blocking, there’s no ability to block any voice in a discussion with the software used here.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

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Actually, you can indicate which “Anonymous” you are quoting, thanking, etc. In the right top corner of the place where the “Anonymous” comment appears in the thread, next to where it says: “REPLY, REPORT” there is a number. That is actually a link back to that “Anonymous” entry. You can copy it (slowly and with some care) and then paste it at the start, or where more appropriate, of your reply to, or comment on, that particular “Anonymous” entry, and people interested in the discussion can use that link to find out the exact “Anonymous” comment you are discussing. So: yes, you can.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Elly wrote:

privacy and being anonymous have an important function

Hear hear!

Woody is incredibly generous with his time, which is why I have paid and registered.

But I fully support anyone who wishes to remain anonymous.  I quite agree with his first post where he said “I still think the ability to post anonymously is a key capability here on the Lounge.”

But I think Woody could turn it around and instead of personally checking or having every anonymous post checked, he should rely on the users.  If instead of two, there were three buttons at the bottom of each posting, i.e. “Thanks”, “Quote” and “Complain” or “offensive post” or similar, then only those posts that readers complain about would be referred to the site invigilators for review and/or removal.  Probably a much smaller volume than they are checking now.

Keep up the great work

RobB

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There’s already a REPORT button at the top of each post.

5 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, OscarCP, SueW, woody, Kirsty

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In a perfect world, your theory might have some merit. But in the current internet world, I’m afraid it is a fraction naive, sorry.

It would make your hair curl to see what bots and some people attempt to post! and there would be twice as many non-contributing posts as contributing ones!

That’s why our rules refer to

running a polite and respectful Lounge, basking in the upper echelon of the gene pool.

and

Please make sure you only post relevant, contributing content. Posting anything that doesn’t contribute, or that has already been posted, is not appreciated by those reading through reams of repetition, nonsense, or irrelevance, so will be removed.

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Elly, SueW, satrow, woody, Canadian Tech

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Ain’t that the truth….

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Elly, satrow, Kirsty

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well there is anonymous and just consistently identified. Why not just sign in with a unique user name or use a sig in the bottom of the post.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

1 user thanked author for this post.

OscarCP

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That suggestion has already been noted…

Kirsty wrote:

(anons) have the ability to sign their contributions, as many do (i.e. AnneMarie, Back to fishing for better dreams, ? says, etc.)

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If the policing and vetoing of dubious anonymous posts were left to the subscribers, until someone complains and someone else deletes the offending anonymous entry, it will be still there, perhaps with links to phishing sites or sites infectious with malware. There will be, in the interval between its posting and deletion, after someone complains about it, a chance of someone clicking in one of those links with a result that will not make much for the credibility of AskWoody, would it? And not just the incautious link-clicker will be at risk from such not well-considered action, but the whole site as well, as the link may be to an infectious malware provider that will download, unasked and completely for free, a bug meant to open the door to some kind of cyber attack. How would that work? I am no internet security expert, so all I can say is that, well, the means for carrying out such attacks are being refined and strengthen all the time. And, if memory serves, this site has been under some form of attempted attack, that slowed down operations, but did not succeed in causing damage, at least once in the time I have been subscribing to it.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I understand and accept the need to allow anonymous. The people who must use anonymous, must accept that responses to them are also anonymous. Meaning it is impossible to have any kind of conversation. When I try to answer anonymous, having no idea which one of the thousands of them I am responding to, it is very difficult to be consistent or follow a chain. As a consequence, I usually do not respond to those comments.

So, if you truly want help or answers, it would be better for you, if you take a name and register.

I must add that the site in fact is anonymous in that you do not know who I really am. I use a name that is not really mine. But, you can always respond to Canadian Tech and know you are responding to the same person, and know from past experience what kind of answer to expect.

CT

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SueW, wavy, bbearren, OscarCP, b

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Yes, I’m anonymous, but I’m not any of the other anon’s in this thread.

woody wrote:

Also, realize that if you register, all you need is an accessible email address. I don’t ask for any personal information – none.

I have about half a dozen throwaway email addresses.  Get one at Gmail, get one at Yahoo, get one at Outlook.  It’s simple.

wavy wrote:

well there is anonymous and just consistently identified. Why not just sign in with a unique user name or use a sig in the bottom of the post.

I agree with wavy.  Just because you register with a throwaway email address doesn’t mean that you’re any less anonymous, it just means that you are recognizable here at AskWoody.

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OK, here is an idea, for what it may be worth (considering the present viral deflation).

With the current set of AW ‘anonymous’ population, it would seem to be unlikely that there would be simultaneous posters using the following algorithm.

To consistently identify the anonymi here, the first/next time than an Anon poster writes, identify him/her-self with an unique self-generated ID, of the form
‘Anon’ + YYMMDD + HHMM (24-hour format), using UTC. Then subsequently always include this ID in every post.

Thus, as I am in the US Pacific zone, with Daylight Saving in effect, I am zone -7.
My computer clock says 02:53 PM, 03/16/2020.
Hence, were I to wish to be anonymous, but consistently identifiable, I could be: Anon2003162153.

For readability one may wish to insert separators: Anon-200316-2153; or whatever.

1 user thanked author for this post.

OscarCP

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That seems entirely complicated, with its ever changing feast. We already have the post number, that is frequently used to point to a particular anon’s contribution. Does it really need more than that?

2 users thanked author for this post.

OscarCP, wavy

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On Windows Secrets Lounge, no-one was anonymous, and I parried words with Woody on why this could not carry over to AW.  A little reluctantly, I am convinced by Woody that SOME people would be unable to contribute to AW as freely as they do if they were not anonymous.

I still don’t like anonymity, but there may be good reasons for it.  On the other hand, if there are no good reasons, then let’s all be out in the open.

Dell E5570 Latitude, Intel Core i5 6440@2.60 GHz, 8.00 GB - Win 10 Pro

2 users thanked author for this post.

RecognizablyAnonymous, b

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ScotchJohn wrote:

On Windows Secrets Lounge, no-one was anonymous, and I parried words with Woody on why this could not carry over to AW. A little reluctantly, I am convinced by Woody that SOME people would be unable to contribute to AW as freely as they do if they were not anonymous. I still don’t like anonymity, but there may be good reasons for it. On the other hand, if there are no good reasons, then let’s all be out in the open.

I’m pretty much with @ScotchJohn on this one.

Can anyone here at AskWoody reveal my true identity and/or compromise my ability to post anonymously yet retain the ability to be recognized here in these forums?

One can be anonymous without posting anonymously.  And posting in this fashion can take a load off the mods by not having to check IP’s on every anonymous post for possible bad actors.  They only need look at the content to see if the post needs to be trashed for rules violations.

5 users thanked author for this post.

OscarCP, Bluetrix, SueW, b, satrow

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I am still curious why someone posting on computer tech would feel the need to remain anonymous. I do respect ones right to be anonymous. But come on we can’t talk politics what is there to be afraid of?

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

1 user thanked author for this post.

b

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[jabeattyauditor]

wavy wrote:

I am still curious why someone posting on computer tech would feel the need to remain anonymous. I do respect ones right to be anonymous. But come on we can’t talk politics what is there to be afraid of?

Anonymity allows folks to do drive-by comments – trash-talk without supporting their positions, and without having a track record to review.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by jabeattyauditor. Reason: spelling

2 users thanked author for this post.

OscarCP, b

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Office politics angst? “The walls have ears, and can I trust my connection to this “Woody”-something site to be really encrypted and that this “Woody” Whoever won’t tell my boss/best customers? This “Woody” person (if it is actually one person, or several, it’s all the same to me) will know who I am if I (air quotes) “register”! No way!

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I had personal reasons (history of domestic violence) that made it very difficult for me to trust registering. It was only after ‘lurking’ for years that I finally registered. It was the people here, their consistently supportive, helpful comments, that led me to finally register (and not without great reservation, because the risk to me continues to be so great). If registration was mandatory, there are questions I never would have asked, and had a chance to get answered.

If you haven’t experienced having a stalker, having your life at risk, you have no idea… and too many of the people that were once in my life, friends and family, did things, revealed things, that gave my ex-abuser access… and that brought harm to me, as I tried to separate, and keep myself and my children safe.

It is incredibly difficult to maintain safety. The tech industry, as a whole, has implemented technology with disregard to the very real risks it poses, and without adequate safeguards for people at risk. That means (mostly) women have suffered, and died, because of the cavalier attitude of those who have adequate personal safety, and are not being victimized. I love my father and brothers and nephews… but there wasn’t a single one of them who understood the desperate need I had for personal safety. All they saw was a charming, smiling man. If he had threatened in front of them, they would have cleaned his clock… but he didn’t… and I didn’t wait until he did something they’d recognize as a threat… I left, and I told them why I left… but they didn’t believe that this charming, friendly guy was the danger I thought. I must have been mistaken. Statistically, though, guys who try to choke their partners have the greatest risk of killing their partners, eventually. I’m still alive. The last thing that I, and other women (or any abused partner) like me, need, is to have further exposure without it being our choice.

AskWoody was essential to me, in learning how to protect myself on-line, and when using tech. Done right, tech has the potential to increase personal freedom, financial independence, and choice. The default in implementing it has been to endanger vulnerable people, without their consent.

Because of my background, I recognized that participation of any kind should not be mandated. There are oppressive regimes in the world… but there are also problems with control and power that are acted out daily in other countries… The statistics are horrendous. Moderating can be seen as a burden… but it is my joy to volunteer, and to be able to facilitate anonymous posters. I know that ‘victims’ posts aren’t going to look like they are at risk. People are going to stigmatize those that speak of having been victimized, thinking that they are weak. They aren’t weak, or pitiful, or somehow deficient. They just aren’t. They need to be supported in their efforts to stay connected, to understand their risks, to be the one who chooses even the ‘small’ thing of registering. Bless Woody for standing firm!

I can only imagine the perseverance and strength it requires for individuals, whether from state oppression, or from partner violence, to keep researching, and reaching out for anything that might help them. At the same time, I support those that speak truth to power, and share what might be of help to others, but that need to stay anonymous. This site has helped many victims strengthen their tech skills. A computer can be an essential tool in rebuilding a life without abuse, without risk.

It is important that the legal system, schools, and businesses recognize the parts that they play in enabling abusers. The story is told about someone doing a presentation at work, and having their W10 stop everything and update. In the US, there are over 20,000 calls a day to domestic abuse hotlines. Phones… and computers… can be essential life-lines. Updating, changes, other problems, and mean the difference between safety, and death. It is atrocious that a company like Microsoft would not recognize, from the outset, that computer access can be life and death to someone who’s phone is controlled by an abuser… any time I get to ranting about their callous behavior- just remember that my computer is essential to my ability to function, to stay in contact, and to stay safe. I am very, very protective of all that it has come to mean for me.

By the way, those low cost, low spec computers that Microsoft is unable to provide a consistent operating system for, are exactly the ones that people who have been victimized, or that are under financial abuse, might obtain and depend on… and the most likely to experience problems updating and BSOD. Companies could recognize this, and work together to provide stable, long lasting resources for the many people at risk, instead of pushing forward recklessly, and ignoring their complicit decisions that endanger others… whether for profit, or to reach some cheer-leading goal like having a billion users…

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

2 users thanked author for this post.

SueW, Seff

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Has registering made you more trackable than before?

Doesn’t a throwaway email address make that impossible?

(There’s no way most of us can discover that anyway.)

1 user thanked author for this post.

OscarCP

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Even registered you are pretty much anonymous, unless Elly is your real name. I am still not seeing a real difference here but what ever makes one comfortable. However my hearts goes out to you for having to endure what you have.
Oh and thanks for volunteering!

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

3 users thanked author for this post.

SueW, OscarCP, Elly

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There is anonymous and just being lazy. In my case even though I am registered, I prefer non automatic login ( Security Risk) And do not take the time to login. Beside, in a way I not really anonymous, as any one might detect my style of writing and figure out who I am. Some of my comments mean it is best stay anonymous.

Reply | Quote

How much of this:

anonymous wrote:

Some of my comments mean it is best stay anonymous.

Amounts to this:

jabeattyauditor wrote:

Anonymity allows folks to do drive-by comments – trash-talk without supporting their positions, and without having a track record to review.

3 users thanked author for this post.

OscarCP, Seff, b

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If askwoody was a “closed system” I probably have not stuck around. Being able to read and comment on posts helped me out and gave me the confidence to join and contribute. I have learned things and hopefully helped some others. Eventually I. will become a plus member.

Sometimes it’s just a case of effort versus reward. I joined a site last year to help with a driver problem. After downloading and installing the program Windows told me that the drivers were older than my current ones so I didn’t install them. I found my way to a forum of sorts and saw a months old complaint address the same issue. So I made the effort to join and got a dud and email spam to boot (luckily I used one of my online ones).

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Woody has historically declared he wishes to extend courtesy to anonymous voices. I am not on the inside loop to know how much that may be subject to a c-ring consensus now. But I do wonder if it is appropriate for this clearly stated policy to be debated in this fashion. Requesting clarification from a sufficiently senior position.

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Woody started and has engaged in this discussion.

What’s “c-ring consensus”?

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

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What’s “c-ring consensus”?

It was my attempt at a placeholder term, as I lack knowledge to determine if this site still operates as a sole proprietor with contributors, a full partnership or junior partnership arrangement, or something like a directorship. C-ring signifying chiefs level consensus. Sorry to be imprecise for you.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, b

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Sorry, I just saw this post.

AskWoody Newsletter(s) and web site are wholly owned by AskWoody LLC.

AskWoody LLC is a single-member LLC and the single member is me. Which means I get to foot the bill when donations don’t match expenses, which has happened… (checks notes) … 14 of the past 15 months. It also means that we’re beholden to nobody else. Nobody.

I’ve always allowed anonymous posters. Many times I’ve helped people who live in particularly distressed locations, or work for particularly disapproving companies, to secure an account. If you’re anonymous and need to remain so, send me email.

As far as the spam accusation. Ha! Our mailing lists have never been compromised, as best I know – and I certainly haven’t sold, traded, given away, or shared the subscriber list in any way, shape or form.

8 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, mledman, Bluetrix, SueW, OscarCP, PKCano, Alex5723, Cybertooth

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Wordfence – Blocking VPN IPs

Of the 50+ VPN IPs I can  use, 98% of those are being blocked by Wordfence.

I even went through the patronizing procedure of

“Please tell us why you think this is a mistake, so we can prevent this from happening in the future”, or words to that effect.

Needless to say I never got a reply to my query.

So it seems to me that VPN IPs are being blocked because they lose this site a certain amount of “Clicks” or other intrusive measures compromising user’s privacy.

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

Reply | Quote

Lookup your IP address WhatsMyIP Address.
Lookup the use of that IP address on CleanTalk, IPVoid, and AbuseIPDB.

WordFence doesn’t block VPNs. WordFence blocks dirty IPs.
VPNs are designed to hide the User’s origin.
For that reason they are heavily used by spammers, bots, brute force attacks, etc.
Those uses are a threat to any website.
If the IP you are issued from the VPN’s pool has been so used, an Interned record is kept.
WordFence is protecting this site, not from you, but from the others that use the same IP address for malicious reasons.

Please see this Blogpost.

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apollo130470, Elly, DriftyDonN, Bluetrix, satrow

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Besides wondering about who really needs to post anonymously (Elly has given one good answer further up in this thread, but I have not seen many others here, as clear or compelling) I also wonder about how many visiting this site use VPN, when, as Woody has pointed out elsewhere, TSL, HTTPS, FTPS already do an strong encryption of transmitted messages and browser/Web interactions. And Woody’s is not a place the NSA (in the USA) is likely to be particularly interested in snooping into (assuming they are using my hard-earned federal tax money usefully.) I imagine some people have a real need to use VPN, but how many do it without an objectively compelling  reason? I think this is a good question, obviously without an answer. But not a rhetorical one.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
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Heck, *I* used to use a VPN to access this site, when I was living in Thailand. My rationale was that it was none of the Thai government’s business which sites I was visiting – and they had a nasty habit of blocking certain IPs for seemingly random reasons.

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Elly

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Thanks, Chief. Always appreciate the attention you give. It is part of why such a talented crew has chosen to assemble under your leadership. Your site is the least encumbered that I visit, and has been whitelisted in my uBO long ago. I have never believed the bad things that come my way might have information from here. Your kind apology is not needed, but more warmly received for its spontaneity.

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Elly, woody

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I have heard VPN’s marketed by extolling the anonymization of your data by having it mingled in the supposedly large number of client packets coming out of their servers. PKCano points out this benefits ne’er-do-wells along with the innocent. I would go further to say that in the real world laws are different than the rules in cyberspace. There is a thing called aiding and abetting. If you were to lend your coat, your car, or just stand between a criminal and an officer to offer a screen that benefits the criminal, anything that gives them cover; you become subject to this lesser charge.

I prefer to not associate with suspected types. When I am out and about, I would rather trust my wireless ISP than any local hotspot, even with a VPN. I make a distinction between hosted VPN services that share traffic, and single purpose VPN for secure communication. This is my personal view of propriety, and does not reflect on how others may view their associations. Because I do not know them, nor their associates.

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[OscarCP]

Woody has given a second compelling reason for using VPN: people connecting to any sites that might attract the attention of government agencies with operators not particular about tapping people’s communications at the drop of a hat and, maybe, just to do something to please their bosses and justify their wages. But that they also could, all the same, get one in serious trouble. In Thailand, for example, at certain points in its history, that could have been something innocuous that could be given a malicious interpretation of being a seditious comment insulting the King, there a very serious crime of lese majesty.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by OscarCP.

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Questioning the use of VPN’s by someone who remains anonymous?

I use VPN, you choose anonymity. SOStuff, I think

 

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From DriftyDonN

Questioning the use of VPN’s by someone who remains anonymous?

I am not questioning the use of VPNs. I understand where they help, and where they cause problems. I do question the malicious use of an otherwise neutral tool. I question the confusion the innocent have when treated the same as those malicious users. I hope to explain why that happens. And

This is my personal view of propriety.

It was not a question.

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From OscarCP,

I imagine some people have a real need to use VPN, but how many do it without an objectively compelling reason? I think this is a good question, obviously without an answer. But not a rhetorical one.

As a nonrhetorical dialog from a user who actively chooses not to use a hosted VPN service, I wonder who has the standing to determine objectivity? It would be Woody’s subjective opinion that counts here. And he has indicated a desire to allow the subjective reasoning of the individual guest to have a choice, up to the limits of Wordfence and the Lounge Rules. (as regards to either VPN or anonymity)

I have given my reasons to shun hosted VPNs in #post-2213809. But nowhere have I called for them to be shuttered, or told anyone they should not partake if they wish. I only hope they each understand the tool they are agreeing to use, how it is used by others, and how that impacts them while using it.

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