ZoneAlarm update and NAV compatibility

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Fellow loungers,
ZoneAlarm (basic version) informed me this morning that updates were available. It appears that a new option for monitoring antivirus status has been added to the basic ZoneAlarm package (and that a bundled package of firewall/antivirus protection is now being offered on the ZoneAlarm site for $20). In any case, I downloaded the update and then applied it to my version of ZoneAlarm. Then I sent off a relatively heavy Word doc to a colleague. This is where the weirdness begins. I have Norton AV 2003 installed and have chosen to have the little progress window display to show the status of incoming and outgoing e-mail virus scanning. When I sent my doc. and mail nothing showed (by that I mean, no progress pane from NAV popped up) and I had the distinct impression that no virus scanning was taking place on the message since it zipped right out of the outbox (NAV tends to slow down the sending and receiving of mail, I’ve found, but that slight sluggishness is reassuring to me for the protection it provides). I’ve just sent the same document back and forth between different accounts and I show no status monitoring of e-mail antivirus scanning by NAV. I’ve clicked this option on and off in NAV and I’ve turned the antivirus monitoring option on and off in ZoneAlarm but nothing seems to calm my (deluded?) impression that ZoneAlarm might be interfering with NAV. This is just an impression I get. Perhaps the only real way to get an answer is to get a virus through the mail (and that shouldn’t be long in coming). Does anyone else have similar experience? Am I being too paranoid? I’ve already tried going back to yesterday with system restore but that just zaps ZoneAlarm out of my system and I could reinstall the previous version but that means I have to train ZoneAlarm all over again for all of my programs. Perhaps this is a smaller price to pay than that of a possible infection? Any advice or similar experience would be appreciated.
ATL

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The chances of two separate pieces of antivirus software correctly processing messages are not large, and may depend on the order in which they are installed. Much such software seems to blithely assume that it is the only antivirus package installed, and so doesn’t leave things in the correct state to allow subsequent processing of the message by another package.

Only if “the one knows about the other” will things work well together (e.g. Norton Internet Security 2004 has a firewall and an antivirus component, which play happily together). [Not quite the same as having two antivirus packages, but I hope you see what I mean!]

John

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Thanks John. I understand what you’re saying. After other tests between computers here on my home network I just uninstalled the latest version of ZoneAlarm downloaded this morning and installed the previous version which I had saved from a previous update. I ran through the obvious programs and got it trained again but will undoubtedly have some security warnings come up in the days to come. NAV is working as before and I got a nice long scan on a heavy document sent between accounts. I’d be careful about downloading this update of ZoneAlarm if you’re running other antivirus programs and not their new packaged bundle of firewall/antivirus.

Tony

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Thanks John. I understand what you’re saying. After other tests between computers here on my home network I just uninstalled the latest version of ZoneAlarm downloaded this morning and installed the previous version which I had saved from a previous update. I ran through the obvious programs and got it trained again but will undoubtedly have some security warnings come up in the days to come. NAV is working as before and I got a nice long scan on a heavy document sent between accounts. I’d be careful about downloading this update of ZoneAlarm if you’re running other antivirus programs and not their new packaged bundle of firewall/antivirus.

Tony

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(Edited by DaveA on 28-May-04 09:31. added URL code)

The new version 5.x of ZoneAlarm, both the Pro version and the free version, have serious problems with several antivirus programs, especially including anything from Symantec. This is true also for the Norton Anti-Spam product which just stops working when ZA 5.x is installed. This problem is getting a very lively discussion over on the Zonelabs forum, (http://forum.zonelabs.org/zonelabs/board?board.id=gen%5B/url%5D). In my own case, I had to uninstall ZA Pro to get Norton Antivirus and AntiSpam to start working again. Merely shutting ZA down did not do the the trick.

This is a very serious problem for anyone who has upgraded their ZA product to the 5.x version. For now, I’m running without it and depending on my router and the (anemic) firewall that is part of WinXP Pro. However, I’m also looking for other firewall products.

Frankly, this is a very disturbing issue and an example of very poor planning by Zonelabs. It is suggested in the ZA forum that since the company was sold, the new company wanted to get their mark on the product. Well, they sure as hell have done it!!

–Bob Harris

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I to had the same problem on the desk top, just removed 5 and installed 4.5.594.000 and all is back where it should be. Now the laptop and one client with a new machine needs to be restored.

DaveA I am so far behind, I think I am First
Genealogy....confusing the dead and annoying the living

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Hi Dave,
Yes, that is the best solution. I have made the unpardonable error of purchasing the program a year or two ago, and doing my updates on line. Consequently, I don’t actually have the 4.5.594.000 version saved anywhere. It is present on my wife’s PC, but it’s installed. I don’t have the install file. So far I’ve not found it on Zonelabs site either. I’m really hoping they’ll make it available, or tell me where it is, if it’s still available, or fix this darned problem. I have friends that seek my advice from time to time. Some of these people are connected directly to the web through a DSL bridge and without a router. They are particularly vulnerable.

I am unaware of any other software that is (was) as good as ZA.

–Bob

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Bob

I’ve had the Norton Internet Security 2004 package since the end of February, and am pretty happy with it. I’ve got a fairly fast box, and so the overhead isn’t apparent. The great advantage (for me, IMHO, your kilometerage may vary, etc) is the integration of firewall and antivirus in one fairly seamless whole.

With broadband the firewall is an absolute necessity – you’d be amazed how many naughty people seem to want to find out what’s on my computer to “do things” to it! (Or perhaps you wouldn’t…).

John

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Bob

I’ve had the Norton Internet Security 2004 package since the end of February, and am pretty happy with it. I’ve got a fairly fast box, and so the overhead isn’t apparent. The great advantage (for me, IMHO, your kilometerage may vary, etc) is the integration of firewall and antivirus in one fairly seamless whole.

With broadband the firewall is an absolute necessity – you’d be amazed how many naughty people seem to want to find out what’s on my computer to “do things” to it! (Or perhaps you wouldn’t…).

John

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Bob,
It looks like ZA 4.5.594 is still available at: ZoneAlarm4

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Bob,
It looks like ZA 4.5.594 is still available at: ZoneAlarm4

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Bob-
I had the same problem with new version 5.XX of ZA so I am going with ver 4.XX. If you would like I could send the setup file to you, I have most of the last updates, just in case something like this happens with an updated version.

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Thank you very much for the offer. I did find that ZA had posted the lastest former version on their website in the FAQ section. So I have reverted to that. For now all is cool. Thank you very much for your kind assistance.

–Bob

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Thank you very much for the offer. I did find that ZA had posted the lastest former version on their website in the FAQ section. So I have reverted to that. For now all is cool. Thank you very much for your kind assistance.

–Bob

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Bob-
I had the same problem with new version 5.XX of ZA so I am going with ver 4.XX. If you would like I could send the setup file to you, I have most of the last updates, just in case something like this happens with an updated version.

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Hi Dave,
Yes, that is the best solution. I have made the unpardonable error of purchasing the program a year or two ago, and doing my updates on line. Consequently, I don’t actually have the 4.5.594.000 version saved anywhere. It is present on my wife’s PC, but it’s installed. I don’t have the install file. So far I’ve not found it on Zonelabs site either. I’m really hoping they’ll make it available, or tell me where it is, if it’s still available, or fix this darned problem. I have friends that seek my advice from time to time. Some of these people are connected directly to the web through a DSL bridge and without a router. They are particularly vulnerable.

I am unaware of any other software that is (was) as good as ZA.

–Bob

Reply | Quote

I to had the same problem on the desk top, just removed 5 and installed 4.5.594.000 and all is back where it should be. Now the laptop and one client with a new machine needs to be restored.

DaveA I am so far behind, I think I am First
Genealogy....confusing the dead and annoying the living

Reply | Quote

(Edited by DaveA on 28-May-04 09:31. added URL code)

The new version 5.x of ZoneAlarm, both the Pro version and the free version, have serious problems with several antivirus programs, especially including anything from Symantec. This is true also for the Norton Anti-Spam product which just stops working when ZA 5.x is installed. This problem is getting a very lively discussion over on the Zonelabs forum, (http://forum.zonelabs.org/zonelabs/board?board.id=gen%5B/url%5D). In my own case, I had to uninstall ZA Pro to get Norton Antivirus and AntiSpam to start working again. Merely shutting ZA down did not do the the trick.

This is a very serious problem for anyone who has upgraded their ZA product to the 5.x version. For now, I’m running without it and depending on my router and the (anemic) firewall that is part of WinXP Pro. However, I’m also looking for other firewall products.

Frankly, this is a very disturbing issue and an example of very poor planning by Zonelabs. It is suggested in the ZA forum that since the company was sold, the new company wanted to get their mark on the product. Well, they sure as hell have done it!!

–Bob Harris

Reply | Quote

The chances of two separate pieces of antivirus software correctly processing messages are not large, and may depend on the order in which they are installed. Much such software seems to blithely assume that it is the only antivirus package installed, and so doesn’t leave things in the correct state to allow subsequent processing of the message by another package.

Only if “the one knows about the other” will things work well together (e.g. Norton Internet Security 2004 has a firewall and an antivirus component, which play happily together). [Not quite the same as having two antivirus packages, but I hope you see what I mean!]

John

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Shows you how different system configurations react with some programs.

I have Norton AV 2003 and ZA ver 5.xxx ( with the AV update check enabled ) and they are running fine. No apparent problems at all.
AV update has reminded me that an update was available in Norton and sure enough there it was. Go figure !

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I am running 2004 with the out bound scan.
Are you scanning out bound email?
If not set it up to scan and see if the POP up shows the email being scanned.

DaveA I am so far behind, I think I am First
Genealogy....confusing the dead and annoying the living

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Dave,
I am scanning outgoing mail but I’ve always had the progress indicator turned off in Norton av>options>advanced.
I did turn it on and there was still no progress bar showing.

I AM running ZA Pro Beta version, so don’t know if there is a difference there or not.

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If you are NOT getting the POP UP in the lower right corner, on the out going then it is NOT scanning the out bound.

DaveA I am so far behind, I think I am First
Genealogy....confusing the dead and annoying the living

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I rolled back the ZA to V4.5.594 ( uninstall & re install including serious wipe of the reg ) and still not getting any pop up on outgoing email scan.
You are getting this pop up now with 4.5.xxx ZA?

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I rolled back the ZA to V4.5.594 ( uninstall & re install including serious wipe of the reg ) and still not getting any pop up on outgoing email scan.
You are getting this pop up now with 4.5.xxx ZA?

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i did some pretty extensive testing with different combinations of Norton & ZA verisons 4 & 5.
I found that the only way I could get outgoing popup checks to work was to not only uninstall V4 & 5, but then to regedit and search for ALL instances of ZoneAlarm & Zone labs and deleting them all from the reg. Rebooting and then installing version 4.5.9xx ( whatever it was ).
All worked Ok with the outgoing pop ups from Norton. All other features also seem fine with Version 4.xx.

My conclusion is that Version 5xx of ZA either hides the popups or does not allow checking of outgoing emails.

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This is exactly what happened to me after my original post. I had to go into the reg. and zap all instances of ZA because in my original moment of panic I stupidly used system restore. Things were so bad that an incoming NAV virus scan (visibly in conflict with ZA) caused everything to lock up and screwed up my router and network settings. I spent the morning cleaning ZA out of my system and get my network and router back in shape. I reinstalled ZA 4.5.594 and everything is now back to normal. What a massive waste of time. I can only agree with Bob Harris’ sentiments.

Tony

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This is exactly what happened to me after my original post. I had to go into the reg. and zap all instances of ZA because in my original moment of panic I stupidly used system restore. Things were so bad that an incoming NAV virus scan (visibly in conflict with ZA) caused everything to lock up and screwed up my router and network settings. I spent the morning cleaning ZA out of my system and get my network and router back in shape. I reinstalled ZA 4.5.594 and everything is now back to normal. What a massive waste of time. I can only agree with Bob Harris’ sentiments.

Tony

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i did some pretty extensive testing with different combinations of Norton & ZA verisons 4 & 5.
I found that the only way I could get outgoing popup checks to work was to not only uninstall V4 & 5, but then to regedit and search for ALL instances of ZoneAlarm & Zone labs and deleting them all from the reg. Rebooting and then installing version 4.5.9xx ( whatever it was ).
All worked Ok with the outgoing pop ups from Norton. All other features also seem fine with Version 4.xx.

My conclusion is that Version 5xx of ZA either hides the popups or does not allow checking of outgoing emails.

Reply | Quote

If you are NOT getting the POP UP in the lower right corner, on the out going then it is NOT scanning the out bound.

DaveA I am so far behind, I think I am First
Genealogy....confusing the dead and annoying the living

Reply | Quote

Dave,
I am scanning outgoing mail but I’ve always had the progress indicator turned off in Norton av>options>advanced.
I did turn it on and there was still no progress bar showing.

I AM running ZA Pro Beta version, so don’t know if there is a difference there or not.

Reply | Quote

I am running 2004 with the out bound scan.
Are you scanning out bound email?
If not set it up to scan and see if the POP up shows the email being scanned.

DaveA I am so far behind, I think I am First
Genealogy....confusing the dead and annoying the living

Reply | Quote

Shows you how different system configurations react with some programs.

I have Norton AV 2003 and ZA ver 5.xxx ( with the AV update check enabled ) and they are running fine. No apparent problems at all.
AV update has reminded me that an update was available in Norton and sure enough there it was. Go figure !

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Here are a couple of URLs pointed at ZoneLabs that might help:

1) Instructions on a proper uninstall can be found
here. If you follow what you think might be a proper uninstall you might be in for a few surprises since that type of uninstall leaves some version 5x traces that will continue to haunt you. Following the instructions in the URL shown above will clean everything properly.

2) Zone Labs have finally posted some notes regarding the issues and can be found at this link.

3) If you go to the previously indicated link in point 2, they have 2 links to get either Zone Alarm 4.5 or Zone Alarm Pro 4.5

Hope this helps…

Cheers, Bob

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Bob

I found the information at your link #2 interesting, and rather surprising!

Basically. ZoneLabs are saying that they have found incompatibilities (or more precisely, their customers have!) between ZoneAlarm 5 and many (most?) of the common antivirus software packages.

I reckon that the persons in charge of product testing at ZoneLabs appear to have no concept of what goes on in the real world. Why were these problems not found before release? Absolutely staggering!

I think that this mega-blunder, more than anything, would ensure that I never install their firewall again!

John

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Hi John,

The Zone Labs User Forum is rife with frustrated users. Some writers have suggested that the earlier buyout in March by Check Point Software is the cause for some of the problems as many gurus at Zone Labs have left. However, my limited research has no way of supporting that comment. Again, having survived and died in M&A in the business world, the scenario does have some merit.

Another suggestion is that Zone Labs rushed version 5 to market to try and ward off the pending market share loss that might occur when Microsoft releases its security enhanced SP2 for Windows XP. Now that one is certainly possible. However, with the problems that are occurring, and the limited number of AV products that are recognized in version 5x, they, Zone Labs are driving folks out of the arena.

Hopefully they will resolve their problems in the very near future.

Cheers, Bob

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Hi John,

The Zone Labs User Forum is rife with frustrated users. Some writers have suggested that the earlier buyout in March by Check Point Software is the cause for some of the problems as many gurus at Zone Labs have left. However, my limited research has no way of supporting that comment. Again, having survived and died in M&A in the business world, the scenario does have some merit.

Another suggestion is that Zone Labs rushed version 5 to market to try and ward off the pending market share loss that might occur when Microsoft releases its security enhanced SP2 for Windows XP. Now that one is certainly possible. However, with the problems that are occurring, and the limited number of AV products that are recognized in version 5x, they, Zone Labs are driving folks out of the arena.

Hopefully they will resolve their problems in the very near future.

Cheers, Bob

Reply | Quote

Bob

I found the information at your link #2 interesting, and rather surprising!

Basically. ZoneLabs are saying that they have found incompatibilities (or more precisely, their customers have!) between ZoneAlarm 5 and many (most?) of the common antivirus software packages.

I reckon that the persons in charge of product testing at ZoneLabs appear to have no concept of what goes on in the real world. Why were these problems not found before release? Absolutely staggering!

I think that this mega-blunder, more than anything, would ensure that I never install their firewall again!

John

Reply | Quote

Here are a couple of URLs pointed at ZoneLabs that might help:

1) Instructions on a proper uninstall can be found
here. If you follow what you think might be a proper uninstall you might be in for a few surprises since that type of uninstall leaves some version 5x traces that will continue to haunt you. Following the instructions in the URL shown above will clean everything properly.

2) Zone Labs have finally posted some notes regarding the issues and can be found at this link.

3) If you go to the previously indicated link in point 2, they have 2 links to get either Zone Alarm 4.5 or Zone Alarm Pro 4.5

Hope this helps…

Cheers, Bob

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