Windows Secrets special issue on Windows 8

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	INTRODUCTION Windows Secrets special issue on Windows 8
	By Tracey Capen Well, it’s here. The most controversial version of Windows ever released is out in new PCs and as an upgrade. We won’t predict the success or failure of Windows 8 (there is no shortage of tech pundits who have), but we will provide lots of helpful information on how to get started exploring the new OS.

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The full text of this column is posted at WindowsSecrets.com/introduction/windows-secrets-special-issue-on-windows-8/ (opens in a new window/tab).

Columnists typically cannot reply to comments here, but do incorporate the best tips into future columns.[/td]

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It’s been a mixed bag for me, I’ve had exactly two days so far of experience on it and I have a bit of a headache right now.
[Windows 8 Pro with non upgrade install disk purchased from the MS store and shipped to me]
I don’t like upgrade installations of any type and will purposely go out of my way to pay more for a full install
disk of a pro flavor.

The many articles and work around’s that Medico and others have provided here on the lounge truly are a decent source
of information, almost a one stop shop. Thanks guys. For the most part all I had to do was come here.

My install was pretty easy and painless, and didn’t take nearly as long as Windows 7 does. Although I’m an ardent believer of the clean
install, Windows 8 has the best chance, imo, to produce a more trouble free upgrade install than any prior OS.
The upgrade assistant too provided valuable information on driver support, but not completely. Many worked flawlessly without a mention
and were transferred over for the previous W7 setup.
So I did the “remove everything and reinstall Windows” install directly from the DVD while running W7.
It went very well and I ended up with a very stable OS. It did however leave a 24GB windows.old folder. I also noted some
transferring of specialty drivers from the old system to the new, so not a true clean install, but very workable.

After fiddling and fudging around in it for a while I decided to try a more thorough format and clean install. That too didn’t
take long to perform. But be careful, WU wants to find drivers for you.

The “Modern UI” start screen is getting a bit easier to deal with on a desktop with my (below) specs, but the apps are just too ridiculously simple.
Too simple to actually use to get any real work done, they’re intended for weaker portable devices. [that’s exactly what they are]

As far as looks go, I find I’m missing the aero glass from W7 quite a bit.
Without a start button I’m finding myself going to program root directories to get shortcuts placed. I’ve ended up
feeling a very strong need to use one of the many start button emulators. I may decide to remove it after everything is setup to my liking.
It’ll be quite a bit of work getting shortcuts of programs to your desktop and task bar worked out after a fresh install.
Something a noobie will undoubtedly have some difficulty with. [But]
The modern UI interface has all of your installed programs located on the start screen just hidden with a single click and scroll.
This is what they look like:
32264-Untitled
More like a mish-mash of programs, readme files, & uninstallers etc.
all flung together.

IE10 is a bit of a question mark too. I’m not sure if it’s 32 bit or 64 bit defaulted. The icon on the taskbar tracks back to the Programs folder, as
opposed to the programs x86 folder, where incidentally, there is a copy of IE10 as well. I would assume that is the 32 bit version.
“Help-about IE”, provides little info as to the bit rate of IE you are running.
Question: Has MS defaulted IE to the 64 bit version in 64 bit OS installations.
The spell checker in IE10 is a sweet feature too, I’m using it while I write this.

Highly usable but it also has the feel of not being finished.

It’s definitely a work in progress.

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I’ve just read Tracey’s comments on Windows 8 in the newsletter. While Win8 is undoubtedly a nice progress as far as the underlying OS is concerned (faster boot, fewer running processes, less demand on hardware resources, better networking, …) I agree that the user interface is definitely unpleasant and cumbersome for someone who, like me, has been using a GUI since Windows 3.x days, and a computer since punched cards and/or tape (I first used a computer in 1966). Using hover motions instead of the familiar Start button/menu combination will put off quite a few people, and having to learn a whole new environment is going to cost millions in retraining. The new start screen can be rearranged to one’s tastes, but there is no provision at all for 2nd- and higher-level tiles, whereas the Start menu could be organized into folders and sub-folders to reduce the jumble. The more apps you have pinned to the start screen, the more difficult it’s going to be to find anything specific without having to use the search facility. They may call it “modern” UI, but it is really reminiscent of AOL’s first graphical interface in the 1990’s… :rolleyes:

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We may be missing the point. Old fuddy duddies and geezers like us are too biased. I took my gross kinderen to Sams Club and they immediately went to the W8 laptops and “got it”.

Of course I was reading page one of the instructions to Guild Wars and my 6 year old autistic grandson was already at level 8 (what ever tht means). Our generation frets over deleting temp files but my 4 year grand daughter turns it on, heads to You Tube and gets Mickey Mouse.

I installed W8 on my rig and have to confess that I asked “ok… what’s next”. I too miss the W7 feel. My grandkids could care less. They see the touch thing as something “normal” as a light switch. My 9 year old grandson said “ok, why does it not work like they said on YouTube”… I was asking myself “where does he learn this… I KNOW they didn’t teach him this in school”. Therefore my comments on W8 are relevant only to the extent that I have the credit card and they don’t.

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Clint, I set IE 10 to always open in the desktop version. I do use LastPass and the Modern/Metro/Win 8 version does not allow these add-ons. I believe I did show this in my Tutorial, but just to show it again:

32265-AlwaysIEDesktop

I have the same feeling about the Win 8 Apps. I have stated, and still think that the Modern /Win 8 Style UI is more for play time at present. They are just too basic for those needing to do real work on their PC’s. I have to believe this will change over time, but for now, just let me go to the desktop.

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need assitance
as in the topic Windows Secrets special issue on Windows 8
it was written
The good news is that setting up and exploring Windows 8 is relatively cheap and easy. You can buy five upgrade licenses for $40. The official site states that you can upgrade from XP, Vista, or Win7.

I need to know wether in 40$ there is one license or 5. Plz clarify
Thanx in advance

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The $40 license is for one computer. Not sure what the article was referring to unless there is a maximum number of $40 licenses per household that I am not aware of.

Jerry

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Windows 8 is seriously locked down.
If you thought you were experiencing issues with permissions in windows 7, Windows 8 takes it to new heights.
It may be good security for the average Joe, but it’s hell when one needs to run odd programs that do not follow
the normal install routines, like batch installed components that were written 10 years ago.
An example;
In order to get VirtualDubMod to recognize outputted files from VFAPIConv I had to manually add registry entries in order
to get VFAPIConv’s dlls registered and communicating with each other to run and work properly.
This is something a simple batch script would have handled in previous OS’s easily with one click.
It took me hours to figure this out and get these apps working. :huh:

You’ll find that the admin account in Windows 8 is even more restricted than the admin account in Windows 7.
I’ll be looking for workarounds for many things I suspect.

Incidentally, VirtualDubMod & VFAPIConv, along with NanDub are some of the more ancient programs around
for DVD conversion. I was surprised it took so much effort to get these working together, but they are.

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Microsoft is going down the same road as Apple : they don’t want you to use programs that didn’t come through the Windows Market, so they’re making it as difficult as they can. I wouldn’t be at all surprised that Windows 9 doesn’t support the destktop any longer. Fortunately, by the time this happens I’ll have retired and will be able to switch to Linux… :huh:

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Not true. Clint is talking about very old S/W that he uses. 10 years in computer age is quite old. Most apps developed in the last few years either work quite nicely or have been updated to work quite nicely.

Yes in the Win 8 UI, you have to obtain your apps from the Win 8 App Store. In the Desktop UI almost every app that runs on Win 7 will run equally well on Win 8 Pro. Many apps that run on XP also run on Win 8 Pro.

We have had discussion on the desktop before. In fact there is one thread on just this subject. Bottom line is that many of us feel the desktop will be around for a long time to come.

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Hello ~ Ms. Capen,
I too, am running the preview of win 8 in virtual box. I noticed you are doing the same, is it the real version or the preview?
I couldn’t find a way to buy/upgrade to win 8 pro, as advertised!? How did you do it?
Thanks for your information.
a subscriber to WS from the beginning.

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Hello ~ Ms. Capen,
I too, am running the preview of win 8 in virtual box. I noticed you are doing the same, is it the real version or the preview?
I couldn’t find a way to buy/upgrade to win 8 pro, as advertised!? How did you do it?
Thanks for your information.
a subscriber to WS from the beginning.

As far as I’m aware, you can’t upgrade from the preview version. If you wish to use the cheaper upgrade disk, you need to wipe your VM and install XP or Vista or Win7 on it, then upgrade to Win8

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I believe you need to use the Full Install, OEM version of Win 8 Pro to install in a VM. Sorry, the lower priced Upgrade version will not work.

There is some contradictory information on this subject:

[INDENT]
Can I legally install Windows 8 in a virtual machine?
Yes. You can install any version of Windows 8 in a virtual machine, using virtualization software on any platform. (If the VM is running a properly licensed copy of a recent Windows version, you can use the upgrade edition of Windows 8; in most circumstances, the PUL System Builder edition is the correct choice.)
Note that you cannot share licenses between the host PC and a virtual instance. The following text appears in section 1(f): [INDENT]If you use virtualization software, including Client Hyper-V, to create one or more virtual computers on a single computer hardware system, each virtual computer, and the physical computer, is considered a separate computer for purposes of this agreement. This license allows you to install only one copy of the software for use on one computer, whether that computer is physical or virtual. If you want to use the software on more than one virtual computer, you must obtain separate copies of the software and a separate license for each copy.
[/INDENT]

Soucre: ZDNet How the new Windows 8 license affects you

In one statement they say you can use the Upgrade version, then say the system builder version is the right choice in most cases. You can see why there is mis-information floating around. A one point I read that the full system builder version is necessary, then I read this. I guess who knows, try it and see what happens. [/INDENT]

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The only way I would even thing about getting Win8 is Win8 RT (Surface). Personally, if I do have to get new hardware, if I can’t transfer my license to the new system, then I more then likely will go all Ubuntu. I want a desktop friendly OS and that is an OS that directly boots into a standard Desktop Shell with something akin to a start menu. Why Microsoft wants to go to something more akin to Win3.1 is anyone’s guess. Having to create special shortcuts or use shortcut keys is just plain unacceptable for me. Why Microsoft why? lol

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1) Tracey Capen is a man — look at his picture at the head of the article.
2) Each computer, whether a VHD, VM or physical disk or partition, must be separately licensed. No 5 for $40.00, wherever that figure come from.
3) To license and install on a different partition or disk or VM or VHD, System Builder under Personal Use License is the way to go. This is as close to a Full Retail Version as will be offered for Windows 8. Only Pro will support some of these virtualization schemes. System Builder is available from places like Frys.com for $125.00 plus taxes, free shipping.
4) The upgrade is just that, and is not an original license, so it has all the usual limitations of any MS OS upgrade.
5) The swiftest way to get certain legacy programs to work on the Windows 8 desktop is to turn off Smart Screen Filter on the Desktop, which is separate from the IE 10 Smart Screen Filter. This is the main reason it feels like the UACs are crazy restrictive in Windows 8. Also, there are many Legacy Modes in Wndows 8 on the desktop, and older programs and drivers may benefit from running in a Legacy Mode. For awhile, this was the only way to run Super Antispyware as a 64-bit Windows 8 program (That issue is now fixed). And CD or DVD burning programs which don’t carry their own emulators may need similar treatment. StarBurn is one of the few free programs which will do a good job with media burning, because it does carry its own Windows 8 compatible emulator with it.
6) Preview Versions are not eligible for upgrades.

And yes, RT (Modern UI) is much more functional on a tablet than on a laptop or desktop without touchscreen features. But the Surface is pretty flimsy in its physical design. It seems designed to break rather than be of long-term use. For the price it costs, they should have put more thought into physical durability. Especially for the over-priced docking keyboard. Lousy key feel on that add-on, too. Go into a Microsoft bricks and mortar store and try the Surface before buying it. Seriously.

-- rc primak

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1) Tracey Capen is a man — look at his picture at the head of the article.

Well, Osgood Fielding III was right, then: nobody’s perfect :p

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After Reading the Whole Issue on Windows 8. Personally I believe we have another em and that it is not a productive system. From what I was seeing one would have to re invent the wheel to use this Windows 8. I will pass it I did Vista and ME

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Well, Osgood Fielding III was right, then: nobody’s perfect :p

Forgiven.

-- rc primak

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Since Windows 3.0 my motto when introducing a new version of Windows into the corporate environment has been to “wait for the first service pack.” This doesn’t apply to home PCs where an initial Windows OS release affects only 1 computer and myself should things not go right. Supporting 5, 10, or 100 workstations with Microsoft’s latest and greatest isn’t my idea of fun although some folks seem to thrive in being first adopters. They call it “bleeding edge” for a reason.

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After reading Tracy Capen’s article and following the links that would permit me to experiment with Win 8 without cost, I ran into a road block after setting up a virtual box. When I tried to download the free “Windows 8 Consumer Preview ISO Images” I got a message “404 File or Directory not found”. I tried downloading from several sites with the same results. So…guess I’ll stick with Win7. Based on the large number of TV ads I’m seeing on Win 8, I suspect the rollout isn’t going as well as Microsoft hoped.

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After reading Tracy Capen’s article and following the links that would permit me to experiment with Win 8 without cost, I ran into a road block after setting up a virtual box. When I tried to download the free “Windows 8 Consumer Preview ISO Images” I got a message “404 File or Directory not found”. I tried downloading from several sites with the same results.So…guess I’ll stick with Win7.

I don’t think you can preview anything after it’s started. Fred Langa’s instructions for trying Consumer Preview in Virtual Box are 8 months old, and I think it was very silly of the newsletter to highlight them a week ago, after the release of Windows 8 RTM.

Based on the large number of TV ads I’m seeing on Win 8, I suspect the rollout isn’t going as well as Microsoft hoped.

You think those TV ads were only planned in the last two weeks?

Bruce

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No reinvention here, just a faster, more secure OS, that looks, feels and works similar to but better than Win 7 did.

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As I posted elsewhere in the Lounge, Windows 8 Pro gives me a lot of under the hood reasons to upgrade, even on the Legacy Desktop.

-- rc primak

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I just wish MS would have preserved some semblance of aero in Windows 8, especially a desktop installation.
It’s almost like they’re buying into the erroneous press about the desktop dying out.
It would be understandable to dump it in low powered devices, but a choice on more powerful systems would have been nice.

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No reinvention here, just a faster, more secure OS

Win 8 has a ton of reinvention since it is really two separate OS’s in one – TIFKAM (The Interface Formally Known As Metro) and the Desktop that have no means for each type of APP to communicate with each other. Not to mention the Charms bar and the hot spots in the corners. Yes, you can spend some time customizing it so it looks a lot like Windows 7 but its still a lot different and bouncing between the two interfaces is a little jarring when it does occur.

It is faster but if you are happy with your current OS, I personally don’t see any “gotta have” features in Windows 8 that would motivate you to upgrade. Others on this board will disagree, so make up your own mind. With a number of tweaks, I have modified Windows 8 on my laptop that I upgraded for the speed increase to the point where it is tolerable but I am not motivated to upgrade my Windows 7 desktop that I feel is secure and plenty fast enough as is.

Jerry

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I haven’t tried out Windows 8 yet. But based on all I’ve been reading, Microsoft needs to do three things in order to make Windows 8 universally acceptable:

1. Add a Windows 7-like interface, and allow effortless and seamless switching between the two interfaces at any time.

2. For tablets and other mobile devices that use Windows 8, add the capability to put the device into a docking station which has connections for monitor / mouse / keyboard / flash drive / external hard drive / extra memory / etc.

3. Assist companies for free in making their software and hardware products work in Windows 8.

If Microsoft will do all of that, then they will soon dominate the tablet / mobile device market. If they won’t, they will see their market share slip, and they may see their dominance escape to another company (much like Novell / Borland / Netscape et al) saw their dominance escape to Microsoft.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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I haven’t tried out Windows 8 yet. But based on all I’ve been reading, Microsoft needs to do three things in order to make Windows 8 universally acceptable:

1. Add a Windows 7-like interface, and allow effortless and seamless switching between the two interfaces at any time.

2. For tablets and other mobile devices that use Windows 8, add the capability to put the device into a docking station which has connections for monitor / mouse / keyboard / flash drive / external hard drive / extra memory / etc.

3. Assist companies for free in making their software and hardware products work in Windows 8.

If Microsoft will do all of that, then they will soon dominate the tablet / mobile device market. If they won’t, they will see their market share slip, and they may see their dominance escape to another company (much like Novell / Borland / Netscape et al) saw their dominance escape to Microsoft.

Jim,

1) There is with a Start Menu app, such as Classic Shell, plus hiding the Charms Bar. My desktop is difficult to tell I’m not still on Win 7, except that everything is quicker.

2) Don’t have a tablet, so don’t have an opinion one way or the other.

3) This is a tough one because there is such a variety of proprietary S/W in use by various enterprise customers. Anything that works on Win 7 will most likely work on Win 8 with minor coaxing. Many enterprise customers are beginning the upgrade process to Win 7. I suspect you will see many going to Win 8 instead. MS does not assist with the Win 7 Upgrades for free, I do not see them doing so for Win 8.

I do not believe other OS developers help enterprise customers for free either.

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I haven’t tried out Windows 8 yet. But based on all I’ve been reading, Microsoft needs to do three things in order to make Windows 8 universally acceptable:

1. Add a Windows 7-like interface, and allow effortless and seamless switching between the two interfaces at any time.

2. For tablets and other mobile devices that use Windows 8, add the capability to put the device into a docking station which has connections for monitor / mouse / keyboard / flash drive / external hard drive / extra memory / etc.

3. Assist companies for free in making their software and hardware products work in Windows 8.

If Microsoft will do all of that, then they will soon dominate the tablet / mobile device market. If they won’t, they will see their market share slip, and they may see their dominance escape to another company (much like Novell / Borland / Netscape et al) saw their dominance escape to Microsoft.

About Item (2) — Have you looked at the Surface RT Tablet? It has a Docking Interface. A very flimsy keyboard can be attached. (There are TV commercials showing docking with the keyboard and even syncing through the docking interface with another Surface tablet.) External HD Video Out is supported. So where’s the beef? The Surface Pro, due out by the end of this year, should have even more capabilities. Expect more from third party manufacturers soon.

About Item (1) — Spend some time only on the Legacy side of Win 8 Pro. It becomes very Win 7 like except for the lack of a complete Start Menu all in one place. Almost everything I ever used in the Start Menu can be found on this desktop UI. Other things can be pinned to the taskbar. Third-party apps can bring back a Start Button, but I haven’t found any need to do this. Others, like Medico, probably wouldn’t use Win 8 without the third-party Start Apps. There is flexibility, and third-party developers are sure to add even more functionality back to this Desktop. Even Aero (or something like it, as is done in Linux) could be put back in, if anyone were interested in doing it.

The Desktop is NOT dying out. Over 90 percent of software still uses the Win-32 APIs, and no one is in any hurry to convert everything to the Win-RT paradigms. Especially the vendors of business productivity applications. Even OpenOffice/LibreOffice is not being ported to RT anytime soon. First they would have to get rid of their Java JRE Runtime dependencies. And they are in no hurry to do that either. Then there’s .NET, which several applications still use, including Paint.NET. And the list of non-RT dependencies in major software releases and Open Source projects (like The GIMP with its GTK dependencies) goes on and on.

Fear not, the Legacy Desktop is in no danger of extinction.

It seems that every two weeks or so, PC World publishes yet another article headed with “The Death of The…” and some ridiculous article follows which has little or no basis in fact. Don’t buy into the hype– it’s all about selling The Next Big Thing, not about giving consumers a heads-up that the things we grew up with are going out of fashion and will no longer be available. I still record TV shows from analog downgrades onto VCRs with VHS tapes. And fresh supplies of blank cassettes have not gone out of stock in major retailers and online stores, more than four years after Best Buy announced The Death of The VCR. I even bought a new Toshiba stereo VCR a few months ago, from an American distributor online. They were a partner of Amazon.com. Don’t believe the hype!

Mind you, I don’t use Floppy Disks. Some things were meant to go out of style.

-- rc primak

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I tried to roll back W8 to W7 and could not. Luckily I did an image before install. While I was playing around with it, most stuff seems to work. Once past the start screen, the rest seemed to be like W7.

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From the Windows Secrets newsletter about Windows 8
Question to Reacey Capen
About the link to Oracle’s Free VisualBox, it is not working. Is this due to Sandy?

Tom

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Microsoft purports to not having a need for an immediate Windows 8 update release, like a service pack.
The rational being from MS is that Windows 8 is more complete and more thoroughly tested than any of it’s predecessors.

I suspect this to be false despite the rigorous beta testing, and that Windows 8 indeed will require fixes and updates in the form of a service pack,
just like all of it’s predecessors before it. After all, it is a departure from the way they’ve traditionally done things.
So far serious updates via WU are few and far between, but we are only a week or two time wise into this new OS.

On another note; The future of the desktop:

[opinion] Wait watch and see,
MS will eventually have to reconcile the fact that the desktop will not be as dead as they, and many of these gaudy tech pundits seem to think it will be.
It’s going to require more considerable complexity to reconcile the simplistic “Modern UI” with the workhorse that the
traditional desktop actually is. As it stands now, you can’t run anything meaningful and productive solely from the Start screen (Modern UI).

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Saturation advertising is typical of new product releases. Google Nexus is doing it, and so is Apple for their iPad Mini.

All of which can be either amusing or annoying, depending on your point of view. I just laugh it all off and stick with my Toshiba Satellite with Windows 7 Home Premium. Windows 8 Pro is just candy to me right now — a toy to play with. But if I ever get a device which can seriously use Windows 8 Pro and doesn’t already have it, I can move that side of my dual-boot over with no problems.

-- rc primak

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Desktop User
I’m finally getting used to Windows 8 to the extent where I would not consider going back to Windows 7, and I don’t say that lightly.
The lack of aero is no longer a concern as I’m getting used to, imo, the cleaner and more sophisticated Windows 8 desktop UI.
The start screen and Metro like interface that I thought would be cumbersome and intrusive turns out to be a total fallacy.
I’m finding the lack of a start menu isn’t too bad once I’ve got all my taskbar pinned programs, shortcuts, and taskbar toolbars setup the way I want them.

Windows 8 is basically running everything I was running in Windows 7, and so far, just as stable, maybe even more stable.
When Windows 7 first came out, it didn’t take long to figure out that it was far superior to Windows XP. I’m finding the same thing here
with windows 8, albeit it just took a little bit longer.

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