Windows Latest: The May Win10 1903/1909 cumulative update knocks around audio drivers — and the misplaced data/temporary profile bug is still there

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Mayank Parmar at Windows Latest has an all-too-familiar round up of problems with this month’s Win10 version 1903 and 1909 cumulative update, KB 45567
[See the full post at: Windows Latest: The May Win10 1903/1909 cumulative update knocks around audio drivers — and the misplaced data/temporary profile bug is still there]

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geekdom, Elly, abbodi86, Markham, rontpxz81

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I got nothing.  I never had the user profile issue, and there’s nothing amiss with my Realtek drivers; they’re working just as well as they always have.  I haven’ t had a BSOD (that I didn’t cause myself with my tinkerin’) in a couple of decades.

I read the article, and it seems more hype than substance.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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abbodi86, rontpxz81, The Surfing Pensioner, Barry

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I wouldn’t call it “hype” – he’s repeating what appear to be real problems posted by real people. But most of it (other than the temporary profile bug, and possibly the Realtek driver problem) seems to be random.

My $0.02, of course, but I’ve been doing this for a while….

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MayankParmar, Elly, Markham, Great Lake Bunyip, KWGuy

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woody wrote:

My $0.02, of course, but I’ve been doing this for a while….

We’ve both been at it a while.  I started writing programs in ’72.  I’ve been tearing Windows apart and putting it back together since Windows 95.

We diverge in two areas.   I use drive images as insurance so I have no reason to postpone updates, and I don’t skip any updates, no matter how trivial they might seem.  If Windows Update offers it, I’ve got it.

My personal anecdote is a couple of decades of fully updated Windows in its various versions (except Vista) without issue.

—My hardware wasn’t ready for Vista, and by the time I had upgraded to Vista-level hardware, Windows 7 was RTM.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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rontpxz81

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The question is not whether you have had these issues but who has and widespread are these issues. The next question is what is the root cause of each issue. In cases it is user mangling of the system but in other cases it is not clear and could be a buggy update. A buggy update may not affected all users as it might only be triggered by certain activities, hardware, and configurations.

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Elly, rontpxz81, KWGuy

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lurks about wrote:

The next question is what is the root cause of each issue.

The permutations and combinations of hardware and software are pretty much like pondering the universe.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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rontpxz81, CADesertRat

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and there’s nothing amiss with my Realtek drivers; they’re working just as well as they always have

But do you use audio enhancements at all? The issues the article mentions are exclusively with audio enhancers. I certainly don’t use them, and most power users don’t, as far as I know.

This problem is probably only relevant to laptop users who use OEM-provided realtek drivers loaded with gimmicky junk. Including the surface pro 6, apparently.

Most power users disable that junk and upgrade to clean, newer drivers. Not that these enhancers are totally useless, they may be good on laptops with poor audio.

But not worth the support nightmare. OEM realtek drivers on my desktop gave me DISM issues a while back.

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I do use the equalizer.  I have a 200 watt speaker system, and it doesn’t need much enhancing.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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It’s really not hype. While BSOD, Windows Update errors are random and also not the focus of my article, I’m confident that this particular update is causing problem with Realtek drivers. I’ve seen many reports and issues were reported only after the update was released.

Mysterious temporary user profile bug is still here.

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woody, Elly, hansR, rontpxz81

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MayankParmar wrote:

I’m confident that this particular update is causing problem with Realtek drivers.

I have Realtek drivers, dated 2012, old drivers.  Just for you, I enabled all enhancements (equalizer has been enabled for years), rebooted, and played a song from my music library.  Nothing untoward happened, although, coming through a 200 watt speaker setup it’s a bit much.

Realtek is one of the more common built-in sound chipsets for many motherboard manufacturers.  How many hundreds of thousands, 10’s of hundreds of thousands of Realtek-equiped systems are in current use?  How many OEM’s put their own custom touches on those Realtek systems?

OEM motherboards are assemblages of mainstream chipset manufacturers.  Those integrated chipsets are not necessarily implemented with the full compliance standards of the manufacturer of the chipsets.  That’s the main reason consumers are urged to get all their driver updates from their PC/laptop OEM, not from the individual chipset manufacturers.

Since the problems are few and sporadic, are they truly the fault of Windows Update, or could they be the fault of the way some OEM’s have implemented the Realtek system on the PCs/laptops that are having the problems?  Did the Windows Update touch an Achilles heel?  That’s very much what it sounds like to me.

Here’s an aside.  I have an Intel DH87RL motherboard.  The Intel spec sheet says that the motherboard is compatible with Intel Core i7 4770 CPU.  The spec sheet for the Intel Core i7 4770 CPU says that it is compatible with the Intel DH87RL motherboard.  And it’s the same for the Core i7 4770K, both ways.  Yet the motherboard will not even POST with either of these CPU’s installed.  It runs marvelously with its Core i5 4670, though.  What’s up with that?  Should I blame Microsoft?

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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[MayankParmar]

There are many configurations of Windows 10 and I don’t have access to telemetry data like Microsoft to explain why the bug is only hitting a specific group of users.

If you install an update from Windows Update and your audio stops working after the reboot, are you going to blame Realtek, OEM or Windows Update? I would blame Windows Update because I never encountered the same issue before the update.

If users had reported these problems on any random day, I or others would not blame Windows Update.

You don’t have a PC with broken audio after the update and that’s completely normal because you have a different configuration.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by MayankParmar.

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woody, Elly

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MayankParmar wrote:

You don’t have a PC with broken audio after the update and that’s completely normal because you have a different configuration.

So I can blame Windows Update for still having a normally functioning PC, all the way back to Windows 10 RTM in July, 2015.  That and a decent implementation of the integration of the Realtek chip into my Intel motherboard.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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I have Realtek drivers, dated 2012, old drivers

If your realtek drivers are that old, they have a security problem. Probably more than one, to be honest.

It’s a failure of Windows update that they don’t update these drivers for you. Not unique to your machine of course, it also happens to me.

I guess I was naive for thinking Windows Update would actually try and find me new drivers. Now I trawl the MS Update Catalog and forums for driver updates.

I don’t think the driver that broke my DCOM permissions was even that old. It was a 2015 dated driver and broke 1803, IIRC.

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bbearren wrote:

The permutations and combinations of hardware and software are pretty much like pondering the universe.

If Microsoft can’t deal with the mirid of combinations of Software and Hardware it should stop trying to support all of them and concentrate in limited versions of software – hardware.

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rontpxz81, Great Lake Bunyip

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That’s called Apple.  😉

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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cluffernut, Elly, Great Lake Bunyip, bbearren, woody, Barry, Seff

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Disclaimer: I haven’t installed May updates yet.

It seems to me that the majority of users haven’t had most of these problems and the “lost User Profile” evidently has been going on for some time (so far it hasn’t affected me) so MS either doesn’t care about it or they don’t have a clue on why it is happening to some users. For quite some time now, MS seem’s hell-bent on pushing out CU’s and Feature Updates no matter what the damage it may cause to some unknowing user’s that get a shock when things no longer work as expected. My sympathies go out to those unknowing users but they should be getting used to it by now.

As has been said many many times here, backup backup backup. Unfortunately many users haven’t learned that yet.

As to me, I’ll wait for Defcon 3 and keep backing up.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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rontpxz81

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Susan Bradley wrote:

That’s called Apple.  😉

Microsoft copy Apple in many areas so it can copy this a s well.

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With so many different devices and configurations you can expect a certain amount of issues with every update. Its debatable if this is widespread enough to tell people to not update or is it a bit over-hyped due to social media making it out a bigger problem then it is?

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Oh for the days when the autoexec.bat and config.sys files held all the answers to one’s computer problems…

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MayankParmar, Great Lake Bunyip, woody, Eckis Redux, MikeFromMarkham

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_Reassigned Account wrote:

Its debatable if this is widespread enough to tell people to not update

It may have hit ten of millions of Windows 10 home users, 90% are “mute” and can’t post for help on Microsoft’s forums (no one has Microsoft account) or other social media sites..
They turn to their local PC help, pay $200 for “service” or call the Neighbor wiz kid nephew…

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Alex5723 wrote:

_Reassigned Account wrote:

Its debatable if this is widespread enough to tell people to not update

It may have hit ten of millions of Windows 10 home users, 90% are “mute” and can’t post for help on Microsoft’s forums (no one has Microsoft account) or other social media sites..
They turn to their local PC help, pay $200 for “service” or call the Neighbor wiz kid nephew…

“ten of millions of Windows 10 home users” is pretty much an over exaggeration, Alex5723.
if it were so, why am I NOT experiencing these problems on my Win10 PCs, huh?

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EP wrote:

Alex5723 wrote:

_Reassigned Account wrote:

Its debatable if this is widespread enough to tell people to not update

It may have hit ten of millions of Windows 10 home users, 90% are “mute” and can’t post for help on Microsoft’s forums (no one has Microsoft account) or other social media sites..
They turn to their local PC help, pay $200 for “service” or call the Neighbor wiz kid nephew…

“ten of millions of Windows 10 home users” is pretty much an over exaggeration, Alex5723.
if it were so, why am I NOT experiencing these problems on my Win10 PCs, huh?

Why others do ?

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VMware Win10 host with Linux Mint guest. Haven’t had audio on boot in a long, long time. It was always a Win10 issue and not VMware or Mint. This update fixed it!

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My friend and I have the same model Lenovo desktop PC. I set them both up. Hers was set up with a “Microsoft Account”, mine was not. She lost everything in her “download” folder back when that was an update thing. I did not. Recently she lost all audio output to everything that plugs in; speaker and headphone jacks as well as usb speaker sound. I did not. At least the last one was resolved when I found the “realtek” default was reset and included 2 sets of default realtek audio outputs!? One had the headphone jacks included, the other did not.(?) When I finally chose reset the the default to just ONE ONLY, the realtek that showed the headphone jacks, ALL audio to external speakers, audio jacks, and usb speaker audio was restored. IDK?  ALSO, every time hers does an update restart, she gets the dreaded “choose your keyboard” boot loop. The only way we’ve been able to work around that is to manually turn off the computer, unplug all the usb devices, wait 1 minute, turn on the computer, then plug the usb devices back in. I have no update issues yet…. crazy!

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I am a PC user of very simple brain……………………………has your friend ever thought of reconfiguring her laptop to dispense with the ” Microsoft Account”? Might be worth trying a crazy solution to a crazy problem!

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It has been hinted at above, but I want to confirm that in my experience, many “power users” do a clean install of Windows.  They install the most minimal versions of drivers, the least bloated ones often called “driver only”, and keep most of the the ones that come from the default clean install (the ones Microsoft gives you).  They avoid most software from the computer manufacturer – “update helpers” etc.  And they seem to have less problems with bugs and with Microsoft updates failing or causing side effects.

Maybe my view of this is wrong, though.  It could be that power users backup and are able to find solutions to problems so quickly that they do find bugs, but are just better able to handle them.

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Has any firm found a solution to the temporary profile problem and published a solution?

On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
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geekdom wrote:

Has any firm found a solution to the temporary profile problem and published a solution?

None.

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I reported a variant of this problem to Microsoft in early December 2018 (linked here). There were a couple of half-hearted replies, none of which addressed or fixed the actual problem, and then the support forum summarily closed the issue two days later.

The net effect of this “bug”, if that’s what we’re calling it, was what amounted to a hijacking of my system’s only admin user, which got remapped to an autocreated temporary account (which also ended up being linked to my Hotmail account). This effectively thwarted any attempts to fix or revert this unwanted change.

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