• Windows 11, or a Mac?

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    #2742837

    ISSUE 22.04 • 2025-01-27 PUBLIC DEFENDER By Brian Livingston Microsoft is ending all security and feature updates for Windows 10 on October 14, 2025.
    [See the full post at: Windows 11, or a Mac?]

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    • #2742845

      Your investigation into switching to Apple and OSX is going to be interesting, Brian.

      However, don’t you think that more people are inclined to switch to Linux instead?
      Not only do distros like Mint give a more Windows-like experience, people can also run it on hardware they already possess (for maybe ten years more).

       

      LMDE is my daily driver now. Old friend Win10 keeps spinning in the background
      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2742887

        Never mind, Brian. I see that Will has explained why.

        LMDE is my daily driver now. Old friend Win10 keeps spinning in the background
    • #2742900

      Thanks for doing this series.

      I switched away from Windows when Microsoft decided to shove Windows 10 down our throats.  First I moved to Linux Mint.  But I kept having integration issues with my Apple phone, so I finally made the decision to move to Apple.

      When I did so, I found that Apple is so *nix-like under the covers that I was able to use the scp (secure copy) command to copy files directly from my Linux Mint machine to my Apple machine across my home network.  Just had to tweak the Apple’s settings to allow this kind of connection, and then provide my Apple password in the scp command on the Linux box.  This probably won’t help someone coming from Windows 10, but for Linux folks, there you go.  (Settings –> General –> Sharing –> Remote Login)

    • #2742917

      Thanks for the intro to the mini, Brian. What I wanted to mention on this general topic is the lack of fully capable alternatives to Windows OS. I have tried multiple Linux flavors, but was always left with a sour taste in my mouth. Compatibility, setup/maintenance, command line craziness, etc. Still not a viable replacement for the AVERAGE Windows user.

      As for Mac’s, I have a couple older models laying around the cave. Writhing this response from an old 2012 MacBook Pro. Because of hardware limitations and software compatibility issues, it seems the Apple line-up is still limited to business and casual user use cases. Prove me wrong.

      I would LOVE to get off of Windows, but I play a lot of games (MMORPG’s and shooters) to blow off steam after a day of dealing with stupid people, so that’s a big factor for me. Sadly, few game companies develop their games to run on Mac’s NATIVELY. To compound the problem, many of these games require high end graphics capabilities to truly enjoy the immersion, which eliminates both Mac and Linux from the available OS platforms to use.

      According to Statista Market Insights, revenue in the Games market worldwide is projected to reach US $522.50bn in 2025 and grow to US $691.30bn by 2029. That’s a lot of coin! Why wouldn’t Apple want to jump on that bandwagon?

      • #2742974

        Good to point out gaming Palladium. Yes, my RTX 4070 would find no PCI-E home in a Mac and Steam is reportedly buggy in Linux.

        I’ve been singing the praises of Windows 10 LTSC for years and it is inexplicable to me why more AskWoody users, who are above-average in their technical skills, why why don’t they want to use it?

         

        Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

        • #2742987

          Because you legally cannot buy it  if you are a retail/consumer would be a good reason 🙂

          It’s only for original equipment manufacturers or for Volume license business customers.

          Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

          • #2743126

            Fair enough and I appreciate your reply Susan 🙂

            Whoops, just edited this post, as I meant it as a question for you Susan:

            Is it legal to download the evaluation version of Windows LTSC (available publicly on the Microsoft website) and then continue to use it past the 90 day evaluation period?

            I know many who do this, thinking they are doing nothing wrong because they didn’t mess with the OS or use a activation code that isn’t retail.. might they be mistaken?

             

            Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

        • #2744248

          Switched in like 2018-19 directly to ltsc, because win7 usb drivers didnt work on new hardware, now on the same version as you.

          I guess because its a little gray areaish, its not discussed much. Dunno if tpm bypasser is mentioned. Trying to make so much e-waste is pretty evil and their dumb pluton ideas.

    • #2742922

      Thank you, Brian, for this series.  I switched to macOS in November when Apple made the Mini smaller, more powerful, without raising the price.  I’ve been wanting to try Mac for years but finally found the “balls” to do it.

      Within 4-5 days my Windows pc was being turned on just to keep it updated.  Don’t worry, I shall remain subscribed to AskWoody because I still take care of and maintain my wife’s pc.

      I couldn’t figure out why I liked macOS so much.  Then several days ago it dawned on me: macOS is so “charming”.  At least to me, compared to Windows, macOS is such a charming operation system.

      Thanks again.

    • #2742930

      The online version of this week’s newsletter has a bad link to this discussion page, https://www.askwoody.com/newsletter/windows-11-or-a-mac/FORUMLINK instead of https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/windows-11-or-a-mac/

      The email version has no link at all.

      Also, this sentence:
      Figure 3 shows that the base configurations of Mac minis only 16GB or 24GB of RAM.
      lacks a verb (“have”) in the second clause.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2742942

      Funny coincidence. After 35+ years of Windows, I just bought a Macbook Pro. Motivation was the lack of speed in my 7 year old Lenovo using Lioghtroom Classic AI – like denoise. I am taking my time learning and have a HUGE spreadsheet.  Some features on the Mac are surprisingly wonderful. Some, I cannot understand how they have gotten away with for so many years. (Two in particular)

      I find 6 or 8 things (so far) that have no equivalent from Windows utilities or fall very short. I find that dozens of utilities I have free on Windows are OUTRAGEOUSLY priced on MAC. Like a decent zip, pdf, screen capture. Many more.

      I do not know if I shall keep both functioning or switch to MAC only. Too soon to tell. It took 143 days of spare time to research, install, configure, add plugins, etc on the PC. Will take less for the Mac but not in a rush. Already a number of things just not needed on the Mac. Likely another month before I can truly test.

      Happy to comment more here is desired. I did start a toipic on Equivalents which got little readership or replies so stopped posting there. Could revive. Or not…

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2742943

      I think the Intel NUC 14 Pro series would be a fairer comparison to the Mac Mini than some discount, name-brand laptop. The ASUS version of the NUC 14 Pro Tall Barebone Kit is ~$600 at B&H photo, but it doesn’t include RAM or storage, which might put off a non-tech user. However they also offer versions with, for example, 32GB RAM and 1TB SDD for ~$1000.

      And it goes without saying that the NUC is reconfigurable without a heat gun or soldering iron.

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      • #2742972

        Thank you, rbailin, I logged into the comment section to say exactly the same thing.  If you’re truly going to compare “Apples” to oranges, the NUC (or one of the many, many knock-off equivalents) would be a better comparison.  Especially for the “cuteness factor” Brian mentions early in his article.

        I am in independent support tech for Windows PCs, with the vast majority of my clients being seniors.  Yes, some do (or did) come from the Apple universe but costs have driven them to Windows PCs over the years.  Apple was just too expensive for them to get the same computing power.  For those seniors on very tight budgets every nickel counts.  I even persuaded some to successfully try Linux Mint on their old Windows 7-vintage PCs, rather than buy new Windows 10/11 PCs.  I have to say this move for them was a game changer.

        Windows aficionado, Linux Mint evangelist

        • #2743144

          I’m a retired IT professional with over 25 years of experience in the PC repair field, and over 30 years prior to that in consumer electronics repair.  Currently on a fixed budget and unable to afford a new Windows 11 computer (my Acer Aspire laptop was only 3 years old when Windows 11 was released) I decided to check out Linux Mint, while continuing to use my Windows 10 desktop and laptop computers.  Neither met the stringent requirements for Windows 11.  With end of support looming for Windows 10, I finally made the switch to Linux Mint when version 22 was released the middle of last year, and have absolutely no regrets.  Both machines now running Mint v22.1 and perform like new with 16GB or RAM.  For those in my position of being unable financially to invest in a new computer just to keep up with Microsoft’s requirements, Linux Mint is an excellent option, with a GUI they would be somewhat familiar with.  There is certainly a learning curve, but one can use Linux Mint and may never need to use the command line, which is a stumbling block for many thinking about switching to Linux.

           

    • #2742955

      The online version of this week’s newsletter has a bad link

      Now that is weird. I do a search and replace to change the placeholder FORUMLINK to the correct URL. In Brian’s article, the “Comment” line next to his name has the correct link, while the button at the bottom does not. (Microsoft’s own software, Visual Studio Code, made that mistake.)

      I fixed the verb.

      Thanks for the copy-editing work.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2742969

      Anything about Mac system is a waste of space. I will not use Apple products.  If Apple is a constant theme, I will find another source of PC information.

      • #2743104

        Five years ago I would have agreed with you DrPep71 – but these newer Macs with the Apple Silicon CPUs are pretty impressive & most importantly the prices have come down a lot, as long as you get the base model.

        I’m literally using a 12 year old Macbook Pro and it is great to use, gorgeous screen, snappy feeling, works really well and it’s 12 years old!

        My main computers are all Thinkpads and home-built PCs though.

         

        Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2743137

        If Apple is a constant theme, I will find another source of PC information.

        Better than us? Hard to imagine.

        Seriously, we’re not turning into an Apple publication. But as I mentioned in my explanation, it’s hard to ignore this moment in time. And as you can see from other sentiments here, other Windows diehards are thinking the same thing.

        Right now, I’m spending time developing Windows 11 topics for many months out, well beyond the end of this special series.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2744419

          I don’t think I’m alone in relying on this Forum for important and necessary Apple news, eg, update results from knowledgeable Apple users.

          iPhone 13, 2019 iMac(SSD)

      • #2744366

        Some rather famous folk down through history have suggested that it’s good to know  your enemy…..
        Then there is one of the first bits of advice I remember my Mother giving me (other then which side of the plate the silverware went on)….
        If you don’t have anything  nice to say, don’t…..
        I don’t think I need to finish that one, have a great evening, try to anyway 🙂

    • #2742973

      Keep that Mac Mini receipt Brian!

      Windows 10 LTSC IOT does not reach end-of-life until January 2032 (see this Microsoft source)

      I use this version of Windows and love it. I have never liked the standard versions as they have so much bloat and nonsense software included that have nothing to do with the OS. Don’t even get me started on Windows 11, I wouldn’t use that under (most) any circumstances.

      I implore you and the other AskWoody readers to do a fresh install of Windows 10 LTSC IOT and bask in the absence of the bloat in the other Windows versions. It is a clean and lean OS that works great. There is an evaluation version available from Microsoft, I’ve posted the link before here at AskWoody (link) but it appears the LTSC ISO has been taken down.

      There are lots of legitimate ways (and plenty of illegitimate ways) to obtain and use Windows 10 LTSC. Many just keep using the trial version forever; You cannot change the desktop image and must withstand a watermark in the corner of the desktop, but those are the only really noticeable issues.

      That said, I do use a Macintosh for one particular software title that is MacOS-only. It’s called Logic Pro. It’s a niche music composition title that most will not be interested in.

      MacOS and Linus are great OSs, but I do think that most people who are used to Windows or must use windows due to software requirements would be best served by Windows 10 LTSC.

       

       

      Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

    • #2742968

      Hopefully this gets to the right place – my first comment at AskWoody.

      Ok, you got me.  I do buy on the basis of cuteness. I have 5 Intel NUCs and have actually considered the Mac Mini.  However you have already hit upon the stopper for me: they can’t be upgraded.  I tend to shove as much ram and disk space as possible in a pc.  Where’s the fun in a Mac?

      I will be reading future articles closely and with much interest.

      Thanks

      Karen T.

      (also don’t know if this auto-signs or not)

    • #2742984

      For those wanting to try out a Mac. The M4 Mac Mini is unbeatable at $500.

      That said, you can buy a used Macbook Pro for around $200 if you need the portability.

      I own a “Late 2013” 15-inch MBP (It’s got an i7 Haswell generation, 16gb RAM, 1TB fast storage) .. it’s easy to update to the latest MacOS using a tool called OpenCore Legacy Patcher (link) & Mr. Macintosh on Youtube (link) has lots of great, slow paced tutorial videos on how to use it

      I mean, a fast 16GB / 1TB laptop with an nice 1800p bright screen is a screaming deal at $200-$250, right?  Even if it is over a decade old. Apple sure knows how to make good hardware… too bad you can’t (easility) run Windows on it.

      Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

    • #2743003

      Hi Brian!

      I will have to replace my 2015 Retina 4K iMac that runs on Intel.  New iMacs are pricy.  I tend to max out my machines to future proof them, and I run Windows in a VM for apps that are not available or don’t have as many features on macOS.

      So, I wonder.  Would it be sufficient to use my old iMac as a monitor and a Mac Mini as the processor?

      It would save a lot of money to deprecated my old iMac macOS, install Retina 4K-compatible terminal software, and connect to a Mac Mini.  I don’t need superior graphics as Retina 4K is sufficient for my needs.

      Thoughts?

      Dennis Page

      • #2743153

        Hi Dennis,

        I know the really old iMacs could have their display used by an external device but I’m not sure about the 2015 version.

        If you need more performance, this new Mac Mini base model that Brian is evaluating is unbeatable for $500.

        If you are happy with your level of performance, then look at my post on this thread about OpenCore Legacy Patcher – it breathes new life into older Macs.

        Also, I use two Dell 27″ 4k monitors (Dell S2722QC) with my Macintosh. They are inexpensive, around $250 each and the notoriously poor Mac scaling isn’t an issue for me at 4k & 27″ (163 PPI)

         

        Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

    • #2742940

      Brian,

      Thanks for taking this task on. I am looking forward to your view on this journey.

      I have been a MS user since DOS days and am currently supporting my wife’s Win 10 PC and I have installed Win 11 on my desktop Dell XPS and my “unsupported” Dell XPS15. It has been a mixed experience. I am tired of the MS invasion of privacy and forcing changes that few want or need.  I still think that a PC means Personal, not MS corporate extension. To this end I have been also using Linux for a number of years, both in a VM and Native on a mini PC. I have found a few limitations that keep me from moving to Linux full time,

      I picked up a base Mac Mini M4 for $499 during the Black Friday Amazon sale. I am very impressed with this PC. This is my first real exposure to Apple Mac but overall it has been very positive. I did add an external Thunderbolt compatible external ZikeDrive with a fast M.2 SSD and moved my home folder to it. Highly recommended. Much faster than the internal 256GB SSD.  My only issue at this point is getting my Quicken files imported to the Mac Mini. I get an error caused by the Quicken conversion process. If I need to I will likely start a new instance of Quicken by manually entering my latest data. I have not yet decided but I am strongly considering making the Mac Mini my primary use PC.

      Gook luck with your efforts.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2743055

      Hi Brian,

      This is an interesting read from an obviously Windows orientated person looking at the Mac world for the first time. I started in the MS world with MS DOS and then Windows 1 (I still have the scars from those days!) having played with Atari STs and Amigas and was intimately familiar with CP/M. I switched to Macs in 2002 or thereabouts when I was fed up of the issue that every time I turned on my desktop or laptop (desktops were home built: I probably built around 20 machines in my time) it needed updating or crashed due to a buggy software update, drivers that did not work or I had the interrupt settings incorrect on an add on card etc. I suspect you are very familiar with those days. I wanted something that ‘just worked’ since I now streamed music content and then video content to my home entertainment systems. Windows was just not reliable enough for this purpose. And my switch worked. Apple systems (they had just switched to their new OS X (Linux derived) OS, since I hated their OS 9 (as it was non multitasking)) were amazingly clean and reliable. At least when compared to Windows at the time (note I am aware that Windows is much much better in this regard these days).

      Today I have a reasonably powerful desktop Windows 11 machine and MS Surface Laptop that does laaptop duty if I need one, which, to be honest, is not often these days. I use the Windows machine to keep my hand in and run one or two particular pieces of software for which there is no Mac alternative. My problem these days is that there are no Windows equivalent for some of my favorite Mac applications (Logic Pro: and I know there are equally capable Windows apps, but they do not allow me to use the same work flow process as they are not compatible in any way. Final Cut Pro: Yes there is Adobe Premier but it does work the way I do  and, again, I know how to use FCP and Premier is not compatible in any way). However for day to day use, the Mac apps are in some ways more functional than their Windows equivalents. And these days the Windows and Mac OS machines know how to talk to each other very easily if I need to swap files etc. Office on both machines is virtually identical and the Adobe apps I use (Lightroom and Photoshop) look almost exactly the same on both platforms (the subscription license allows to you use either Mac or Windows version of the app).

      I will be interested to see how your experiences compares to my experiences and I will be avidly reading the articles. You write extraordinarily well and I am very familiar with your Windows books.

      Having just taken delivery of a Mac mini (M4 Pro, 64 GB, 2TB) to replace an older I9 based iMac and I am amazed how good it is, but as you note, they can get really expensive with those upgrades. I use an external TB5 drive which adds on another 4TB to avoid paying Apple upgrade prices. But when I compare it to my Intel i9 14900K based Windows machine with 64GB memory and 4 TB SSD running Windows 11, Nvidia RTX 3080 Ti card, my Mini destroys it in, say, importing and processing my RAW Sony A7RV files into Lightroom Classic. (2000 photographs, Mini is 2 x as fast). Granted my Mini is an M4Pro which is going to be substantially better in some tasks than your base machine.

      Just a note that you compare the cost of the Apple Studio display (which is stupidly expensive) to a none Apple  5K display (which is much better value) and seem to imply that you need an Apple Studio display to use with your Mini. The Mini will use most displays that are available so your alternative Apple Display is just an expensive option which you do not need. Also note that you can use your mouse and keyboard with a Mini (although the keyboard may to be remapped and/or some key caps changed).

      I would also like to point out that in my 24 odd years of interacting with Apple personnel at their stores (in many different locations) I have never found any remotely like the ones you seem to have met. I have often had interesting discussions with them about the merits of Windows v Mac and most of them, other than their greeters, seem to be quite technically proficient. Either you are unlucky or the stores you are using are not that good. I live in Austin and the two here are very good.

      I really look forward to your series and if I sound a bit Mac biased, it is only to give a slight tweak to your obviously Windows and Microsoft based view of the world and I apologize if I seem to be a little Mac orientated. I was for many many years (1982 or so until 2002) a thoroughly Windows based person and did not know the Apple platform at all (and was somewhat disdainful of OS 9), but now I am an agnostic and see the merits for both platforms and am happy to use either, knowing my way around both pretty well.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2743112

        Holy Mackerel Peter, your Mac Mini costs $3400!

        I also use Logic Pro for the same reasons as yourself. I’d recommend for those of us with a smaller budget to get a Mac with minimal SSD size (your 4TB SSD upgrade cost you $1200 – ridiculous) and then add an external Thunderbolt enclosure with your own SSD.

        For instance, Mac Mini base ($500) + OWC 1M2 TB enclosure ($100) + Samsung 990 Pro 4TB ($250-$300) and you are just under $1000.. with very fast transfer speeds.

        The one downside is there are only 4 performance cores in the base Mac Mini cpu & Logic Pro can -only- use the performance cores, those 6 efficiency cores sit mostly idle, so that is a consideration depending on what kind of Logic projects you work with. Also the 16GB can be a limitation for some, but I’d guess not most.

        I just helped a friend buy a used  M1 Macbook Pro ($800) with the pro cpu that has 8 performance cores, great for Logic Pro.

        Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

        • #2743196

          It actually cost $2799. Configuration is 64GB memory, 2 TB SSD, M4 Pro. I added a TB 5 4TB external drive (Trebleet, Samsung 990 Pro SSD, total cost $550). Still, not cheap, but I am a glutton for performance. My iMac cost $5000 in 2020, so this was about the same cost if you throw in an Apple Studio display (I already had one, so I did not have to buy one). But it is much much faster. I also sold my old iMac for $1500, something that is very rare in the Windows world. These costs are standard in the Apple world, my Windows machines, however, are just as expensive if you go for a prebuilt machine of similar performance but with the ability to upgrade most of the components. However, these days I do not upgrade up much, having spent many years building my own.

          The M4 Pro has more performance cores than the base machine, which is part of the reason I went with the M4 Pro (TB5 rather than TB4 ports was also a consideration).

          BTW I went for 64GB memory since I am not sure what AI (which is very hungry for RAM) will do in the future. I need this machine to last at least 4 or 5 years.

          Windows now has little to offer me (I do not play games) but I like having a decent machine around, to keep myself in the loop, But they are definitely not my main machines any more.

    • #2743091

      Brian, I enjoyed your article and look forward to hearing how it goes.

      I must confess that I honestly can’t think of any practical reason why a Windows 10 user should seriously consider switching to a Mac aside from sheer curiosity or fulfilling a long-held desire to do so. If so, now is just as good a time as any, but just to avoid having to switch to Windows 11?

      As you pointed out, Macs are a hell of a lot more expensive, especially if you need any upgrades at the time of purchase. And yes, better CPU performance with Mx processors, but is the typical user going to benefit from that on their workaday tasks? Almost certainly not.

      And a longtime Windows user will need all new apps (unless you want to virtualize Windows– more cost and complexity) and indeed have to familiarize themselves with an entirely different computing environment (where the @$&! is the right-click?!?!) I think almost anyone would agree that the learning curve from Windows 10 to 11 is negligible compared to going from Windows to MacOS.

      And if it’s about the loss of Windows 10 updates, Apple will EOL whatever Mac you buy today in 5-7 years depending on the model, and which point you will lose MacOS updates, just like you’re losing Windows 10 updates this year. I’d add that by the time the October deadline rolls around, Windows 10 will have been out for just over a decade, which is a pretty long time for an OS to be supported.

      Now, if the argument is you have a PC that lacks TPM 2.0 or a 8th-gen or newer Intel CPU, so you can’t do a supported upgrade, OK, but that PC is at almost certainly 6 or 7 years old and probably needs to be put out to pasture anyway. Even in this case I’d argue that a new Windows PC is less expensive and much less friction, in both the near- and long terms.

      I’ll admit I have been steeped in Windows since 3.0, but I’m not anti-Mac– I have several. I just don’t think a Windows-to-Mac migration solves any real problems. At best, it defers a few while creating several new ones.

       

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2743105

        Hi Joseph. I posted this earlier in this thread, but it’s important as I’ve seen several now talk about EOL for Apple computers:

        I own a “Late 2013” 15-inch MBP (It’s got an i7 Haswell generation, 16gb RAM, 1TB fast storage) .. it’s easy to update to the latest MacOS using a tool called OpenCore Legacy Patcher (link) & Mr. Macintosh on Youtube (link) has lots of great, slow paced tutorial videos on how to use it

        –> my point is that the Apple hardware is so well built and often ahead of it’s time at the time of manufacture, that this ability to update very old Apple computers to the latest MacOS makes their published EOL irrelevant. Even if I never updated again, my 2013 Mac would still have another 7 years of OS support from today.

        Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

    • #2743095

      Like millions of others with a Win 10 PC nearing EOL, I decided to buy a Geekom A8 mini PC during Black Friday, and so far I’m glad I did. With an AMD Ryzen 7, 32 GB of RAM, and 1 tb SSD, it’s way better than my prior PC. And I get to use my existing software, keyboard, mouse, and monitor.

      My 2 biggest challenges were: 1) getting free of OneDrive since I’m already using iDrive; 2) somehow Win 11 24H2 got pushed, requiring an update to the BIOS and EC and, for me, a reinstall of Win 11, all of which I did using files and instructions on Geekom’s website.

      I’d earlier considered going to Apple but decided against, since it would also mean acquiring lots of new software, ditching software I know and like, and learning a new OS.

      • #2743109

        I’m with you on these fun MiniPCs Jim. I have two Beelink MiniPCs myself, one with a N100 CPU that cost like $125 that is used for my Plex Server and another one with a real CPU that get’s noisy only if pushed hard – it’s velcro-ed to the back of my monitor for a clean setup.

        I’d stick with companies that have been around awhile, for BIOS support. Geekom, Minisforum, Beelink all have earned a decend reputation over the years, while the many fly-by-night companies that sell MiniPCs on Amazon disappear without warning sometimes.

        And I use Windows 10 LTSC rather than the Windows 11 pro that came with them. They will run faster with Windows 10 LTSC than with the bloated Windows 11. It is noticeable, especially with the weaker CPUs.

        One last tip for these MiniPCs.. you might want to buy one barebones and add your own NVME drive and RAM. I have extra of both laying around anyway and I know what level of quality they are, it’s esp important for the drive as some MiniPC manufacturers slip in a SATA SSD rather than an NVME drive.

        Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

      • #2743134

        I also recently bought a Mini PC– specifically a Beelink SER9– to replace my full size XPS desktop (10th Gen i9). Love having that kind of power in a small form factor, and the AMD Ryzen AI 370 is a great CPU. My only complaint is no Oculink port to expand graphics performance, but it’s pretty good as is.

        • #2743165

          The SER9 is a really nice new model Joseph, it should serve you for years. I agree that the graphics ability of the Ryzen APUs is excellent, and “good enough” for most people. You can even play games, though with low settings.

          Does your SER9 make audible fan noise with regular usage? How about when pushing it?

           

          Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

          • #2743214

            It’s very quiet. Under normal operation, you can’t hear it unless you put your ear up to it, and then only barely.

            Under load it gets a bit noisier, but it’s still comparatively quiet. Under no circumstances would it be considered loud.

            I bought it mainly for the CPU rather than the APU– not a big gamer. At idle my Ryzen 370 runs at 38c, half the temp of the i9 I replaced.

    • #2743120

      Clearly I’m enjoying this thread..

      So I did some research and the evaluation versions of LTSC are alive and well. Strange how they allow retail folks to download evaluation versions that are not available for licensing to retail folks? The many mysteries of Microsoft.

      There is now a Windows LTSC version for those of you who like the Windows 11 look. I haven’t tried it yet as afaik, there is nothing Win 11 can do that Win 10 can’t when using these de-bloated versions.

      Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC, latest build is 26100.1742

       

      Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

    • #2743122

      For those of you wishing to de-bloat your standard retail Windows versions I have found this tool to be interesting. I’ve only played with it once as the easiest solution is to just go with Windows LTSC, but this could be helpful and maybe a bit safer than the well-known Atlas OS (as Windows Atlas OS allows one to turn off Windows Defender, which is fine with me, but a bad idea for most)

      https://christitus.com/windows-tool/

      Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2743124

      Thanks Brian – a very timely article series which I will follow with great interest. I’ve been considering the switch for some time now, partly because of a Dell Precision 3431 which I suspect may be haunted, and partly because I am fed up with the “Windows Experience” – namely, messy updates, needing to be an MCSE to keep things running and of course being fed up with having Microsoft tell me how things should be instead of listening to its customers wants and needs. I just want to turn the machine on and have it run, and from the replies I got to my earlier post on the forum about switching to Apple, the vast majority indicated that’s just how it would be. Fortunately my needs are simple – if the iPad could run a couple of specific apps I need I’d stay with that, but that’s not happening so I’ll be making my Mac purchase sometime during this year for sure.

      I was thinking of a modest MacBook Air but I’ll see how your experiences shape up with the mini.

    • #2743131

      First off, I really enjoy your writing ! What could have been a dry technical review reads like an adventure ! Second, I can’t understand why people would rather switch to Apple than upgrade to Windows 11. I mean, you can switch for other reasons of course (Apple makes great products), but just to avoid Windows 11 ? I have 4 computers. Three run under Windows 10 and are too old to support Windows 11 (although I plan to upgrade them anyway with the help of Rufus). The fourth computer came with Windows 11 and it took me 2-3 days to get used to it after tweaking the settings I did not like with Winaero Tweaker. No big deal. Hating on Windows seems to be a hobby sometimes… I remember the time when everybody freaked out because Windows 7 finally had to go : they loathed the idea of installing Windows 10 !!! And now people are freaking out because they don’t want to lose Windows 10. Having to buy a new compatible PC is a bummer, but if your machine is over 10 years old, like mine…. the time has come. Or get a Mac.

    • #2743135

      Wow, that didn’t take long..

      For those asking, here is the Microsoft webpage where you can download an evaluation version of Windows 11 IOT LTSC:

      https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-windows-11-iot-enterprise-ltsc

      Have fun, if you were wondering about all this LTSC jazz, this is a legit way to evaluate this unique version of Windows. There is also a Windows 10 version available.

      Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2743076

      <span style=”font-weight: 400;”>I haven’t owned or used Apple products since my Apple II computer in the 80’s.  They were just too expensive and proprietary for my taste.  All my past employers were PC based so I came from DOS to Win7 during my 30+ years of employment.  I’ve repaired, upgraded, built and purchased countless PC’s for family, friends, neighbors, seniors, but for the last 10 years my computer of choice is the Chromebook.  It fulfills the computer needs of 95% of ‘my clientele’ with virtually no virus, malware, or update hassles for little cost.  Yet I still use PC’s and I’m not ready to give up on them.  I still love my Win7 PC and my older laserjet printers and have avoided Win8 and 10, but I’m concerned about being hampered using an obsolete browser.  </span>

      <span style=”font-weight: 400;”>Here’s another option if you want to stick with PC’s and upgrade for minimal cost.  You can find refurbed Dell OptiPlex 7050 Micro Form Factor PC’s from 3rd party resellers (Walmart.com).  The system I found has:  Intel Core i5, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD, Windows 11 for $170 (and they included a USB Wi-Fi adapter)!  I purchased 2 of these and I’m amazed how well they work (they actually had Win11 Pro installed, even though they were spec’d with Home version).  They booted right into a ‘local’ account and contained absolutely NO crapware! </span>

    • #2743115

      Modern MSFT has been lost for some time. Win 7SP2 / Server 2008R2 was their last sane release.

      Switch to AAPL? Not happening for me.

      PC Linux is where it has been for decades — both for price and performance.

    • #2743125

      Another source says you might try Wubuntu Linux . It has a Windows-like appearance, and runs Windows programs you already have.

      Wubuntu Linux is designed to closely mimic the look and feel of Microsoft Windows 11, making it an ideal choice for users looking to transition from Windows 10. The operating system offers a highly Windows-like desktop environment, using the popular Ubuntu Linux distribution as its base. It includes pre-installed Microsoft apps such as the Edge browser, OneDrive, PowerShell, Teams, links to Office 365 apps, as well as integration with Copilot AI.

      You’ll find a familiar desktop menu, weather app, sidebar, run command launcher, and system tray. It also comes with Google Chrome, VLC media player, Thunderbird email client, and Steam gaming platform. Many native Windows applications can be run with the Wine/Winetricks utility.

      Ubuntu Linux has a reputation for user-friendliness, security and strong hardware support. Wubuntu strikes a balance between familiarity for Windows users and the freedom of Linux. All of that, in my opinion, makes Wubuntu Linux a worthy alternative to Microsoft Windows, especially for users facing the October 2025 “end of life” for Windows 10.

      credit: Bob Rankin

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2743427

        Wubuntu sounds pretty good, especially on the wubuntu.org website. However, a bit more digging turns up articles like this from ZD Net:

        https://www.zdnet.com/article/why-i-no-longer-recommend-this-windows-like-linux-distro/

        There are many other articles from what appear to be reputable sources that discuss various legal and security issues with Wubuntu. Makes me wonder whether Wubuntu is just Ubuntu, which in and of itself isn’t a bad thing, with a Windows wallpaper covering the desktop, which is seemingly pointless to me.

        If Wubuntu really is secure, won’t “vanish” because of legal issues, and really does run many or most Windows apps/programs seamlessly (i.e., without spending the better part of a day tweaking various settings to get the programs to work), that would be great. Otherwise, not so much, and I’ll stick with Linux Mint.

    • #2743160

      … OR LINUX … or PC Sticks or NUC PCs?

      I’m a little surprised that linux wasn’t mentioned as a way to refresh the existing PC instead of lashing out with green dollars to buy a mac and get lured into Apple’s walled garden instead of Microsoft’s. From my perspective, trading Windows for Apple is trading the OS you know for the OS you don’t know, and the devil is in the details.

      Consumer Linux costs nothing. Nothing to try, zero dollars ever, works on almost any old PC hardware that turns on, and there’s heaps of support on the web. Some linux distros look so much like windows that users will feel right at home after installation and setup.

      So if users want to abandon Windows 10 altogether because they don’t want to pay the hardware upgrade cost, there’s free options for their existing hardware.

      OR

      there’s cheap PC Stick hardware or NUC PCs that will run Windows 11 happily for the budget conscious folk as well. Then they don’t have to learn a whole new OS ecosystem.

       

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2743202

      As a person who is going to resist Windows 11 as far as I can, a 2024 Mac mini is on my agenda. I might get one this year, to finally replace a base model 2018 Mac mini which is still on MacOS Mojave (I have no intention to upgrade the OS on it as I believe that will slow it down considerably, and as I only occasionally power it on now).

      I am running Windows 10 1809 LTSC and Windows Server 2019 on my PCs (which are approaching 10 years of service and are all “unsupported” by Windows 11), and they work great. No rubbish Windows Store and other useless bloat. I also have Windows 10 21H2 IoT LTSC setup on one of my PCs, and while it is a bit more bloat (I am talking about Edge which I never use), it seems to work fine. I will stay on them for as long as I can, even past the end of support if necessary. I also have Windows 7, Windows Server 2008 R2 and Windows Server 2012 R2 (with ESU patches) on my PCs, and I am NEVER giving them up as long as the hardware still works.

      I am aware that Windows 11 24H2 now has a LTSC / IoT LTSC version. However, with the endless problems (at least as it seems to me) associated with this version, I have no intention of moving to it any time soon. If I can find time later, I might test it inside a VMware virtual machine to see what it presents. But I am pretty sure I won’t like it, having experienced the same with older versions of Windows 11.

      Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

      • #2743213

        Some thoughts on what you said as we run the same Windows OS:

        2018 Mac Mini – if it’s the 8gb / i3 version, you’re probably right not to upgrade the OS. If you have 16gb or more, you’ll probably be surprised to see how well it runs with a more recent MacOS .. remember you don’t have to pick the latest MacOS version, you can choose which one you want. For instance, for me, I don’t need anything past MacOS Ventura at the moment, so no need to upgrade my 2013 MBP again.. yet.

        I am running Windows 10 1809 LTSC … and never giving it up:

        Yeah, me too, though I use the latest version of Win 10 LTSC IOT. My Windows LTSC computers are currently supported until 2032 with far less bloat, no windows store, no forced “feature” updates, etc.  You can actually remove the Edge browser, but I don’t bother, I just never use it, nor think of it.

        I’m curious why you are considering a M4 Mac Mini when things seem to be going well with your Windows machines. What features are you looking for in a Mac?

        Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

        • #2746910

          2018 Mac Mini – if it’s the 8gb / i3 version, you’re probably right not to upgrade the OS. If you have 16gb or more, you’ll probably be surprised to see how well it runs with a more recent MacOS .. remember you don’t have to pick the latest MacOS version, you can choose which one you want. For instance, for me, I don’t need anything past MacOS Ventura at the moment, so no need to upgrade my 2013 MBP again.. yet.

          I’m curious why you are considering a M4 Mac Mini when things seem to be going well with your Windows machines. What features are you looking for in a Mac?

          I have used MacOS for a long time, since OS X Tiger, when I first got a taste of it on a PowerPC Mac mini, almost 20 years ago. Even though Windows (7 / 8.1 / 10 LTSC and the corresponding Server versions) is and has been my main OS, I feel I need to follow up on MacOS when I can, to have a second choice.

          I am well aware that with more memory MacOS can run (much) better. My 2018 Mac mini (8GB / i5) is now only used to download new versions of MacOS installers. I run and use MacOS Sierra / High Sierra / Mojave / Catalina / Monterey / Ventura (Yes, all of them) on a PC with an Intel 9th generation CPU with 64GB RAM, using first Clover and now the OpenCore bootloader. I use VMware Fusion 11.5.3 (an older version) on that machine to run Windows / Linux / MacOS virtual machines. That PC is, I should mention, supported on Windows 11 although I won’t install Windows on it as I built that machine specifically to run MacOS.

          My impression on the newer MacOS versions Sonoma and Sequoia is that they are more problematic when trying to run on PCs. I am planning to try to install MacOS Sonoma on that PC later to see if that is the case. I still feel that if I want to use an updated MacOS, a new M4 Mac mini is probably the best choice for me.

          It is unfortunate that since Apple Silicon Macs use different CPUs they won’t support my VMware virtual machines built with VMware Workstation and VMware Fusion. If I do get the new Mac mini, other than internet browsing I plan to use it to run virtual machine software to run virtual machines (MacOS and the ARM version of Windows 11).

          Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

    • #2743218

      Hi Joseph. I posted this earlier in this thread, but it’s important as I’ve seen several now talk about EOL for Apple computers:

      I own a “Late 2013” 15-inch MBP (It’s got an i7 Haswell generation, 16gb RAM, 1TB fast storage) .. it’s easy to update to the latest MacOS using a tool called OpenCore Legacy Patcher (link) & Mr. Macintosh on Youtube (link) has lots of great, slow paced tutorial videos on how to use it

      –> my point is that the Apple hardware is so well built and often ahead of it’s time at the time of manufacture, that this ability to update very old Apple computers to the latest MacOS makes their published EOL irrelevant. Even if I never updated again, my 2013 Mac would still have another 7 years of OS support from today.

      Interesting. I didn’t know you there were patch workarounds on the Mac (which is why nobody calls me a Mac guru). 🙂

      I think my point still stands though, which is Apple sunsets updates just like Microsoft does after a certain amount of time. Yes, you can get around it with various unsupported methods– you can on Windows too, 0Patch comes to mind– but once you do that you’re in uncharted territory and YMMV.

      Also, Windows or Mac, not sure how desirable it is to force update new operating systems on old hardware beyond a certain point. I’ve got my old iPhone 6 in a drawer around here somewhere and could probably find a way to get iOS 18 on that circa-2014 phone, but I’m not sure that would be worth the effort or a good experience if I did.

       

      • #2743221

        These MacOS updates are not “patch workarounds” at all. It’s the same as any other Mac with the same OS version (there are some nuances, but they are unimportant)

        0patch for Windows is completely different and personally I wouldn’t use it as it seems far riskier than just going unpatched. .. once again, I can install Windows LTSC on any computer, with full MS security patches until 2032.

        I even installed LTSC on my dad’s Pentium e5300 system (circa 2008) with 8gb RAM and guess what… it works great for what he does – Web browsing, light gaming on Steam, a few old software applications.  why give unlimited memory access to a third party like you have to with 0patch?

        Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

        • #2743337

          Been using 0Patch for years now, and has never given me any problems. Mitja Kolsek and his crew know what they’re doing.

          Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330 ("The Tank"), Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Newbie
          --
          "The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #2743511

            I’m not saying the 0Patch developers aren’t smart folks, they must be to have this as an ongoing project for several years.

            What I am saying is that the way 0Patch works is a categorical no-go as I will not give unlimited memory access to a third party to have these 0Patch patches directly injected into the memory related to the processes of my internet-connected computer. This is a common technique for some file-less types of malware. What if 0Patch got hacked? Or a 0Patch employee went rogue? I just don’t see the reason to take the risk.

            The biggest point I have is that.. 0Patch is, well, unnecessary when you can just install a current OS, especially the LTSC variants. I do like the old Windows 7 SP1 look though! I bet Windows 10 / 11 users can get a Win 7 theme somewhere.

             

            Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

            • #2743522

              What if 0Patch got hacked? Or a 0Patch employee went rogue?

              a case of device dementia hits together with confused end-users.

              Windows - commercial by definition and now function...
    • #2743316

      Monitor. Buy an Apple 5K Studio Display: $1600. Buy an Asus 5K ProArt PA27JCV: $800

      Or the BenQ PD2730S 27-inch 5K Thunderbolt 4 Designer Monitor for $1199

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2743338

      Probably going to Mint for most things. Reasons:

      1. I can’t stand the Apple elitist snobbery many of it’s users and salespeople project
      2. The overall product is outrageously overpriced
      3. I’m a tinkerer; I like to get “under the hood” and get my hands dirty. This is impossible with the walled garden of ignorance Cupertino keeps it’s users in. But then, I guess if you have enough dough, you can pay Apple to fix it for you.

      When people used to ask me (long, long ago) if they should get a PC or a Mac, I used to tell them, “If you come from a technical background, save your money and get a PC. If you don’t come from a technical background, and have the cash, get a Mac. If you have neither the background or the money, you can build your own PC and save a TON of money. If you do so with a PC guru from your local PC user group, you get an education as well!”

      (Next time I’ll tell you how I REALLY feel.) 🙂

      Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330 ("The Tank"), Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Newbie
      --
      "The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2743305

      I  just about my entire tech life under the Microsoft umbrella. Two years ago I had enough of M$ and went cold turkey and bought a MAC M1 desktop. Never before had I even touched a MAC. I will never go back to M$, Windows, et al. My old Dell hasn’t been powered up since I migrated over to the MAC.

      Yes, there was learning curve but it was quick. Life is so much better now. Next,I’m getting rid of bloatware Outlook for the MAC as it is always half baked, crippled, work in progress.

      Absolutely no regrets here. Goodbye Microsoft.

    • #2743523

      I have two PCs and a laptop, my son has a PC as well. One of my PCs serves as a NAS, and is running Windows 11 Pro 23H2 on circa 2013 hardware which is not supported by Windows 11, but runs it just fine, anyway. My laptop is a Dell Latitude E5420, 14 years old, not supported by Windows 11, but running Windows 11 Pro 23H2 just fine, anyway. Specs are in my signature.

      My son’s PC is the same vintage as my NAS, and he upgraded to Windows 11 Pro 23H2, but one of the online games he plays has anti-cheat protection which requires TPM 2.0, so he rolled back to Windows 10 Pro in order to continue his online gaming.

      The dual boot daily driver I use is the only PC I own that actually supports Windows 11 fully. I’m running Pro 23H2 on one side and Pro 24H2 on the other. I don’t care for the Windows UI, so I run StartAllBack, using the Windows 7 start menu and File Explorer options. My son is fine with the Windows UI.

      As for Apple, I simply can’t abide the hardware upgrade limitations or the outrageous prices for the upgrade purchase options. Not buying into their walled garden in the first place is the best option for me. I don’t have an iPhone, either.

      Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!
      We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.
      We were all once "Average Users".

    • #2743608

      Great idea for a series. Very pleased you have chosen to dive into this question. This thread has jumped in all directions, so I’ll start a new tangent.

      In 1986, my dad received an Apple II GS as a retirement gift. The same year, I bought an IBM PC/XT-286 because that was the computer-of-choice where I worked. These acquisitions were purely coincidental. Neither of us preferred one platform to the other.

      Over the next 32 years, my father stayed with Apple while I stayed with DOS and was then dragged (kicking and screaming) into the world of Windows, which I called “cartoon-based computing” at the time. When my dad died in 2018, he running an iMac with the Mojave OS, while I was running a Dell laptop upgraded to Win10.

      Experiences with my dad led me to an unproven theory, supported only by my subjective experience. I know of no scientific study on this proposition. My theory is that left-brained persons tend to prefer Windows, while right-brained persons tend to prefer Macs. (Brief refresher: left-brainers are logical, analytic, linear thinkers. Right-brainers are imaginative, intuitive, and creative thinkers.)

      My father was creative and intuitive. I am analytical and linear. Over the years, I have tried to like Macs. Working on one feels like working with one hand tied behind my back. I truly hated Android phones, so I bought an iPhone. After six months, I found the iPhone even more confusing and switched back to Android.

      It seems to me that some attempt is being made for convergence between the two platforms as evidenced by the cosmetic changes in Win11. I’m not happy about that, but I’m still unwilling to move to the Apple ecosystem.

      Linux continues to shoot itself in the foot because of the proliferation of distros, the odd names (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Lubuntu, Wubuntu, Xubuntu, what-the-hell buntu, and Mint with some Gentoo on the side), and the ungodly number of repository changes, updates, and new versions released daily. I can’t get any work done on Linux because I spend too much time maintaining the operating system.

      I can’t wait to hear about Brian’s experiences. I can’t think of anyone I’d rather write the series. This is going to be great.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2743641

        An interesting and often repeated thought ie. creatives use Macs and logical, engineering type people use Windows/Linux. In fact the Mac was marketed towards creatives and was the chosen platform for video processing, artists, photographers and graphic artists/publishers for many years. There is still that bias in the Apple marketing approach.

        I was (now retired) a scientist and engineer and I picked up on CP/M and personal computing when it first became a thing. I spent a lot time building hardware and writing software. I never liked the Apple approach, at the beginning, which was a closed self contained system which simply delivered a computing device where the software functionality was the thing. Graphical interfaces took a while to get to the CP/M and then MS DOS/Windows environments while Apple focused on this very early in the evolution of their systems.

        However there came a point in time when I needed a computer purely as a tool and did not care about being able to customize my experience and spend my time making the tool  do what I wanted. Personal computing devices all did, essentially, the same thing and I focused on using them to do what I wanted. In this case, it was delivering music and then video for my entertainment. At the time Windows needed too much tinkering to get it to work. Apple machines just worked and the tight integration between hardware and software gave them the reliability I needed.  I still used Windows or Linux machines for my work processes and any music editing and photography work. However over a period of time (around 5 years) I moved everything to a Mac and gradually moved my Windows machines out of my main stream computing environment. The last Windows machine I built was in 2017. I bought my next one when I needed to move to Windows 11. I bought my first Mac and MacBook in 2002.

        And this brings me to the core difference between Apple machines and the Windows world. Apple tightly couples the hardware and software for optimum performance and reliability. MicroSoft, for all its fault, had a very difficult job designing a system environment for software that uses an infinite variety of hardware and configurations so that software applications can run reliably. Yes, that also gives us the option to customize the hardware and software for our very specific requirements, but, in my opinion, at the cost of reliability. Computers are now appliances and our focus is not on the appliance and its functionality but on the applications and the way we use them which drives the requirements.

        I had a lot of fun in the early days building computers for a variety of circumstances and also spent a lot of time getting them to work and keeping them running. But now I need a computer to do certain things (e.g. edit and catalog my photographs, allow me to create and edit music, interface to my house automation system etc.) and I do not want to spend time patching, putting in faster graphics cards, debugging faulty software ( brought about by both the complexity of the application and the infinite variety of hardware upon which Windows applications are supposed to work). The tight integration with hardware in the Apple environment means I spend very little time on keeping them working and when I want a faster one or more resources I either add them (if I can) or buy a new one.

        I have the same attitude these days to my smart phone. I have both an iPhone and high end (foldable) Samsung Android phone. The Samsung is infinitely more configurable than the iPhone but it is a clumsy, ‘noisy’ environment (getting rid of advertisements and notifications is infinitely easier on an iPhone since we do not have an advertising company providing the OS) where all those options often make the phone behave in ways I do not want and constantly interferes with my use of the phone. The iPhone is reliable, just works and as a result I can use it without worrying about the latest virus laden software infecting my phone or another Google option that wants to steal my data or getting rid of unwanted ‘noise’. So my main phone is the iPhone 16 Pro Max and my Samsung Z Fold 6 is a backup and a way to keep me informed about what is going on in the Android world.

        I have no problem working in any of the  worlds, Apple or Windows or Linux, and choose my environment based on needs and or wants. I am supposed to be a left brain thinker, but I have chosen the Apple world for very solid pragmatic and logical reasons. I am also not an evangelist for any of the worlds and do not denigrate any person who chooses a specific platform (unlike some people in this thread).

        Let’s see how Brian progresses with his experiment. It will either work for him or the changes it requires may not fit with his world view or needs. But please, let’s not denigrate either platform or their users.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2743958

          My CPA (accountants are supposed to be notoriously left-brained) is deeply embedded in the Apple ecosystem. We have never had a detailed discussion on the topic, but I’m certain there is some proprietary accounting software written solely for Windows that would be hard for a CPA to live without. Next time I speak with him I’ll ask whether he relies on any virtual machines. I know that he does not allow any Windows or Linux hardware in his office.

          I had one job where the hardware and software environment was dictated entirely by the employer. No configuration changes were allowed (including custom macros) to make your work easier. You used what you were issued, as issued. I was very uncomfortable at that job.

          I am still wedded to the notion of personal computers rather than appliances. I suffer from a primal urge to make computers behave the way I want them to rather than the way analysts and programmers at the developer think they should. It is difficult for me to abandon that mindset.

          Cell phones are the best current example of technology appliances and also the most difficult to customize. They feature inscrutable, proprietary interfaces without documentation (because they are so intuitive) coupled with regular updates that change the interface for no apparent reason and without warning.

          I have become a Luddite in my dotage. Home automation is a perfect example of “just because you can doesn’t mean you should.” Last year I spent over $5,000 tracking down and removing all the “devices” in a new “smart” home. The most absurd device I encountered allowed a user to control the window blinds with a smart phone. I cannot imagine a use-case for that.

          Dudley Moore could have used some home automation in this scene from “Foul Play,” but that’s the only legitimate use I can think of!

    • #2743672

      What if 0Patch got hacked? Or a 0Patch employee went rogue?

      What if the same thing happened at MSFT? What if the same thing happened at any A/V firm? Come on, these postulates are wildly exaggerated, hyperbolic, and devoid of  any sound reasoning. Really, now!

      Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330 ("The Tank"), Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Newbie
      --
      "The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2743834

        You said my position was “devoid of any sound reasoning” .. that doesn’t sound very nice. Your tone and comment doesn’t seem consistent with the ethos here at AskWoody.

        On that note.. I’m not sure what your level of technical expertise is, or what you understand about memory access, but how about asking our wonderful publisher, Susan Bradley (an expert at this stuff if there ever was one), what she thinks about using outdated Windows versions and giving memory access to tiny third-party companies (that cannot be compared to Microsoft)?

         

         

         

        Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

        • #2743848

          She’s all for it:

          In light of various Zero days, here’s instructions on how to install and use 0patch.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2743850

            Wow, I stand corrected! I suppose this is how we learn.

            Yet, there are many security experts who would disagree with Susan and still consider a technique like 0Patch to be too risky. Though, I have to say, seeing Susan the Patch Guru approve, it must have less risk than I was thinking. I wonder what I am missing..

            Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

            • #2743855

              Where are those many security experts hiding?

              Steve Gibson of Security Now! is a fan too:

              We know from our many years of covering 0patch that these guys are the real deal, and that they really do present a viable alternative to Microsoft’s doubling-every-year extortion for the enterprise.

              In this instance, I don’t mind this sales pitch since it’s easy to endorse what they’re selling. Microsoft has made a strategic gamble to deliberately abandon its users to its buggy and vulnerability-ridden software as a clear means of scaring them into migrating to a fully supported operating system that most users would rather avoid… even when what that really means is that there will still be a constant flow of new vulnerabilities always being introduced while older problems are being resolved.

              So, consider that remaining on a platform that works and that you love, into which Microsoft will no longer be continually introducing new vulnerabilities and which will, nevertheless, continue receiving updates for any newly discovered critical security vulnerabilities. This is the niche 0patch has decided to fill, and I think that for just 25 EUR per year– which is around $27 USD per year, extending the security coverage of that beloved platform for a minimum of another 5 years, makes a great deal of sense. And to top it all off, their on-the-fly RAM-based code patching system is significantly more user-friendly than Microsoft’s nagging reboot and wait system.

              Security Now! #999- 11-05-24

              3 users thanked author for this post.
            • #2744291

              Perhaps my concern is excessive 😉 – but this is a RAM based solution for goodness sake, it is inherently problematic. There is lots written about the actual technique and its intrinsic risks (rather than the predominant ranting about how bad Microsoft is and 0Patch is here to save us – which I kinda agree with in some ways)

              I wouldn’t call what Steve Gibson wrote an endorsement. It’s duct tape until you can get a supported OS installed.

               

              Windows 10 LTSC + Excel 2024 + Synology Docs + Firefox w/ Ublock Origin

    • #2743761

      I switched from Windows to a MacBook Pro in 2019.  It worked right out of the box and has worked well since then.  If you anticipate problems learning how to use your Apple, for the bargain price of $8.99 per month (cheaper by the year), you can call and ask your questions.

      You don’t have to buy an os and Apple automatically includes many apps with the operating system.  Updating my Apple is much easier than updating my Windows computer was.  Apple marks two icons, letting me know there are updates.  So far, waiting two weeks after notification has precluded any problems with updates to the os, MS Office, and several apps.

      I like computers that “just work” and are eqasy to update.

      Best wishes,

      cesmart

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2743763

      I agree completely.

       

    • #2743936

      So, downgrade to winders 11 or stay with 10? I want to go back to 7, actually XP but that is an impossibility. I have some hardware that the windows 7 version works great. The winders 10/11 version absolutely sucks 110 %. I currently have one system in 11 and I am about to format and re-install 10 in it. I stupidly and mistakenly downgraded it to 11 and have regretted that decision ever since.

      MAC, NEVER!!!

      I also have a piece of hardware that I originally purchased for Windows XP and it worked great with Windows 7. Unfortunately, it required a software update to work with winders 10. This version is complete and total garbage. It doesn’t work properly with 10 or 11. And try and find a Windows 7 compatible CPU and MOBO. Next to impossible without paying more than what you would for a garbage Intel CPU.

    • #2744093

      I should mention why I switched to Mac.  One year I was a student, and bought the super dooper Windows for the same price as the base version.

      Outlook wouldn’t load properly.  As MS promises they’ll help you load any of their programs you buy, I contacted them for help.  Even though I had a top of the line Windows, they saw  no reason why it should work out of the box.  In fact, MS insisted I pay them $100 in order to obtain their assistance.

      I concluded that if the top of the line Windows didn’t work any better,  I would buy Apple products in the future.  Apple products have worked well for 5 years, and they’re always helpful when I call.  They don’t even ask me for more and more money.

      Best regards,

      Charles

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2744587

      Despite the heading “Can you use a Mac mini instead of Win11?” this article is not a neutral evaluation of the two as alternatives, but rather a justification, “for die-hard Windows users” from a “Windows fanboy,” of staying with Windows.

      I am an OS agnostic. I have been a user of every Microsoft operating system since the demise of CP/M, with every version of Windows on my principal computer since 1985, because some professionally necessary programs have been available only on Windows. I have concurrently used both OS since Apple transitioned to Intel CPUs, not for leisure (such as gaming) but as an essential professional tool.

      The first article in the series claims to be a comparison of cost. The author looks only to purchase price, and finds a 10% difference. But to someone who uses a computer as a working tool, purchase price is the least part of the total cost of ownership. As a Windows user, I found it essential to become a semi-competent software repairman, and I was an early subscriber to AskWoody and LangaList (as well as the Chaos Manor newsletter). But spending hours weekly on sorting MS-Dos and Windows problems had for me a real cost in lost earnings, and outsourcing the work was both expensive and costly in delays. Unlike Brian Livingstone, “revealing Microsoft’s bugs and workarounds” is not my primary income source. Spending time doing so is for me time lost, not time gained, and for most computer users that is the case.

      The contrast between Windows and Apple is striking. We have yet to read of Brian’s experience, but mine – and that of those to whom I recommended Apple before trying it myself – is that when turned on an Apple computer just works, and goes on working, probably because the software has to address only one set if hardware. There is no equivalent to “MS-Defcon” warnings. More striking is the contrast with support: Apple provides an accessible and free (and often amazingly patient) online and telephone problem-solving support, as well as in-store hardware support. The after-purchase cost is in my experience dramatically lower than for Microsoft systems.

      A final point – the article’s language is disappointingly loaded (“aggressively white,” “astoundingly” expensive, “yet another Apple Store”). I hope for better in the remainder of the series.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
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