Windows 10 upgrade starting automatically – and it happened to me

Topic

New Reply

I’ve seen more and more reports in the past 24 hours of the Windows 10 upgrade kicking off spontaneously: People using Windows 7 suddenly find that th
[See the full post at: Windows 10 upgrade starting automatically – and it happened to me]

Reply | Quote

Replies

@Woody…

Wow…And that was a checked “Optional” update? And you unchecked it but left the machine on and it still tried to install??
Really, there has to be some kind of legal line MSFT is / has been crossing here.
Aren’t there any lawyers weighing in on this stuff?

There aren’t enough kudos we can give to the Ultimate Outsider for the work he’s done with GWX CP software.

Reply | Quote

If all else fails, Woody, you can always decline the EULA, as Mary Jo Foley says.

Reply | Quote

Yep, that’s exactly what happened. It was checked optional, I unchecked it, left the VM running overnight, came in this morning and the Win10 install had failed.

Un-flippin’-believable. I wouldn’t believe it if I hadn’t seen it with my own four eyes.

Reply | Quote

Yep, I just tweeted that – and I should amend the article to mention it. Thanks!

Reply | Quote

Do you think this activity is the opening of a new front for MS to force Win 10 onto users systems? Maybe after several weeks of this activity, an MS spokesperson will blog as to how it was all just a unintended mistake. Ugh!

Reply | Quote

I find it hard to believe that MS would shoot themselves in the foot like this unless there was another bigger, unseen gun pointed at their head. WOW!

Reply | Quote

Woody,

While reading through that very long series of posts (your “more and more reports” link), I came across this:

https://voat.co/v/technology/comments/853510

It is by a developer who has crafted a tool, “Aegis for Windows 7/8.x – Block all known Microsoft spying and Windows 10 upgrade elements”.

I did not employ this tool, since all of my machines “appear” to be unscathed at this time. It’s the list that struck me. It even includes the very old KB971033 from 1/2011, which I’ve seen on other “bad lists” before. Whether every one of those 50+ is villainous, I don’t know. But, the usual suspects are there and the list includes the 3/2016 culprits. “thepower” provides a description (and sometimes a comment) and KB article links to each one.

His long description: “Block 203 bad hosts, change windows update to check/notify (do not download/install), disable automatic delivery of internet explorer via windows update, disable ceip/gwx/skydrive(aka onedrive)/spynet/telemetry/wifisense, disable remote registry, disable 31 scheduled tasks, disable windows 10 download directory, remove diagtrack, sync time to ntp.org, hide/uninstall 51 kb updates”.

Next job is to examine my installed updates and the task scheduler to see if I have any barnacles.

Reply | Quote

Woody,

Here’s another site recommended within that same link you provided: “Stop Windows Telemetry/Tracking/Upgrading to Win10”. It was posted in response to the question of 13 hours ago, “Does anyone have an up-to-date list of the GWX and backported telemetry updates by chance?”

http://techne.alaya.net/?p=12499

This one features a long list of host sites to block. Ex: oca.telemetry.microsoft.com

InfoWorld is cited as one of the sources.

Reply | Quote

It just goes to show that it’s well past time to take control of updates.

Did anyone really think that Microsoft would stop short of taking total control of older operating systems? They feel they can get away with anything since they’re offering the new one “for free”.

Conscientious people have been hiding the GWX update since April of 2015. Not to mention others, like telemetry updates, and of course those that seek to “upgrade” the Windows Update process itself…

In other news, folks are reporting that the Windows Update process on their older systems is taking a long time and using horrendous resources.

It’s well past time to ask yourself, no matter WHAT the purpose of your older OS is…

What is it that the “new” Microsoft is doing that I really want any part of running on my system?

-Noel

Reply | Quote

Woody there’s got to be a Reason behind why M.S is so Desperate to get one’s on Win. 10) I can see some good in it but since I didn’t have the option to Win.10 Pro I don’t know how much I’d better myself..

And to Add: I don’t Remember it being Like this when Windows Vista was the suppose thing people being basically pushed to it) I can remember though talking to one’s that updated to it said they Hated it with a Passion and was going back to Win XP in Break Neck time..

So to end Am I happy with it I guess my only peeved up tick with it, Is as I was with Windows 8.1 is watching my computer Rev. up like a Juiced up Corvette..

When Windows Installer is Running for so no Count Reason till I Kill it which I wonder is a Good Thing or not I wished there was a Way to just do a Way with it..

If Windows is Doing this to Bring good things to us I’d hope to see it Get better than just be another thing we wished was Gone!

Hope your having a Great Weekend.! mine is a Bit on the Rainy misty Side so far.

Later Ron..

Reply | Quote

Go carefully. I don’t trust the telemetry blockers – and there are many. It’s going to take a lot of testing before I’ll feel more comfortable.

Reply | Quote

Remember last October? http://venturebeat.com/2015/10/15/microsoft-stops-automatic-windows-10-upgrades-says-default-checked-update-was-a-mistake/

Mistake, ha! Tactics!

Reply | Quote

Is one solution to install a bootleg version of Windows 7 over our legitimate one? I hear the pirate versions don’t get upgraded.

Reply | Quote

Reading through the Reddit-thread and wondering: many people report the update has happened without their consent. But I thought there was a EULA you had to accept before W10 would actually be installed? Could that be why you got the ‘W10 could not be installed’ error notification? The error as a result of no ‘Accept’ being given on the EULA.

Reply | Quote

Agreed. I’m not about to run a script that disables all sorts of Win 7 underpinnings. Point is there are many efforts ongoing to stem the tide. The colorful language vouches for that.

Did you see this from the sysadmin types?

https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/4a2ssv/warning_windows_7_computers_are_being_reported_as/

Many surprise instances of “Welcome to Win 10” and unwelcome ones at that.

Another note: Task Scheduler on each of my three Win 7 x64s showed just one GWX-related entry (under Microsoft | Windows | Setup). In each case, the entry contained no data. I suspect either KB2952664 or KB2990214 before they were given the boot.

Reply | Quote

Any thoughts on Spybot Anti-Beacon 1.5 for blocking telemetry & CEIP?

Reply | Quote

It may be a good program, but I hesitate to recommend it until I have a load of first-hand experience with it.

Reply | Quote

And so we move ever closer to a recommendation to disable all updates, permanently…

Reply | Quote

Does this forced upgrade invite happen on Windows 7 Pro on which the Group Policy or Registry are configured as per KB3080351 – How to manage Windows 10 notification and upgrade options?
From the article: ‘Microsoft has released new updates to enable you to block upgrades to Windows 10 through Windows Update. These updates install a new Group Policy Setting. Computers that have this Group Policy Setting enabled will never detect, download, or install an upgrade to the latest version of Windows.’
If this still happens after following ALL the instructions in this article, then Microsoft can be considered in breach of their own published official documentation.

Reply | Quote

No. As far as I know, it does not happen to anyone who made the Registry changes in KB 3080351. Nor does it happen to anyone who has run GWX Control Panel and asked to turn the upgrade machine off.

Reply | Quote

P.S. Microsoft is frequently in breach of its own published documentation. The original version of 3080351 was wrong. They only changed it after Josh Mayfield brought their errors to light, in early January. http://www.infoworld.com/article/3020460/microsoft-windows/banishing-get-windows-10-nagware-isnt-as-easy-as-you-think.html

Reply | Quote

I picked it up from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1kGMCfb2xw

‘Disable Windows 10 Spying – Privacy & Security’

I found the video very helpful – the Spybot section starts at about 9’00. He discusses other telemetry blocking software and explains the reasons why he uses Anti-Beacon.

Reply | Quote

It’s certainly tempting at this point.

Reply | Quote

The error gets thrown before I see the EULA.

The EULA used to be at the beginning of the installation process. In the past few days (weeks?) Microsoft moved it to the end of the process. Big difference, psychologically. That will figure prominently in my article in InfoWorld Monday morning.

Reply | Quote

I imagine it would depend a great deal on the quality of the bootleg.

I spent many years in a place where bootleg software outnumbered “genuine” by at least 10 to 1. I have a lot of experience with bootleg versions of Win7, and I, personally, would never let one of them near my machine.

Reply | Quote

If it was a mistake, it took Microsoft a week to fix it.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2994117/microsoft-windows/microsoft-accidentally-upgrades-win7-and-81-pcs-to-windows-10.html

Microsoft told us on Feb 1 that it was going to start shoving “Recommended” KB 303851 out the door. I didn’t think, at the time, that it would be this pernicious. Details Monday.

Reply | Quote

I’ve been using Spybot Anti-Beacon alongside GWX Control Panel on two Win7 machines since early this year. No problems so far.

Reply | Quote

Thanks Woody. I was not aware of the original version of KB3080351 being wrong. It is certainly not easy for regular users to follow the instructions in that article, at least there is a third-party tool which does the job well for less technical users.
Even so, Microsoft’s approach in relation to upgrading to Windows 10 is wrong beyond any doubt.

Reply | Quote

Many people seem to have questions regarding the EULA for Win 10 and that indeed is important if you are planning to install Win 10. However, as an example, the EULA for Win 8.1 provides a consent for MS to download and install without further notice various updates to address security issues, bug fixes etc. as implied by the language. As I recall, the term upgrade is not used in the EULA’s consent language and it would seem that changing over the entire OS installation on a user’s system exceeds the consent agreed to in the license. This is no doubt the reason that MS asserts that users have control over the install of Win 10 even though there is no overt and clear means for the user to decline. The tactics MS is utilizing would normally be considered an “unfair and deceptive” practice under state consumer protection laws, however, MS employs the standard arbitration clause to attempt to exempt itself from consumer protection statutes. It is not entirely clear how a court of adequate jurisdiction would respond to the arbitration clause if it was believed MS has acted in bad faith. At any rate, I think the replacement of an entire OS on a user system probably exceeds any interpretation of the EULA consent for updates in regard to Win 7 and Win 8/8.1 licenses, especially when one considers that these users paid consideration to license the OS. That said, legal remedies that may be available are neither clear cut or certain as to outcomes.

Reply | Quote

It may be a little too late. This action should be performed in addition to uninstalling either everything installed in the last few months, potentially since about June 2015 or uninstalling only the identified patches which cause this behaviour which regardless of the lists available is not an easy task.
Or reinstalling Windows 7 SP1 in Upgrade Repair mode and installing any update from that point in a very controlled manner…
I should stop here…

Reply | Quote

oxbridgelee,

Thank you, thank you!

Woody, move this if you think it belongs elsewhere.

Upon reading ox’s post, I thought to check my installs of Office 2010 Pro Plus, as well as the Win 7 installs, on all machines for CEIP being in the “off” position. I always install MS (and most other) software that way. Because of this from Office 2013:

“When you participate, we collect basic information about how you use your programs, your computer or device, and connected devices. We also collect information about how each is set up and performing. These reports are sent to Microsoft to help improve the features our customers use most often and to create solutions to common problems.”

Okay, we’ve all read that one before. However, in light of the recent “burrowing”, I’m reading that language a bit differently today.

The Win 7 installs all were CEIP off. All three Office installs were CEIP “on” (i.e., box checked when looking at that setting). There is NO CHANCE I installed Office that way. I know right where that installation checkbox is and that you check it off before “Next”. Same thing Oracle does with Java installer and the ASK Toolbar and switch home page “offer”. I have installed Office at least 100 times.

Office updates, security and otherwise, are always allowed. Never thought to check that setting. Wonder if that switch (now unchecked) will get flipped again next month? So thanks!

Reply | Quote

It almost seems like the Win 10 bits had already been downloaded and scheduled for installation at the time you unchecked the optional box for the upgrade. Does that seem even possible?

Reply | Quote

‘there’s got to be a Reason behind why M.S is so Desperate to get one’s on Win. 10’

That reason is well known from a business perspective. Microsoft is trying save money by supporting less Operating Systems by discontinuing the old ones and focusing available resources on the current one. There is nothing unusual here and very little to do with technical considerations.

Reply | Quote

Likely.

Reply | Quote

IMO, the explanation is even simpler. Microsoft is desperate to show that Win10 is being widely adopted. Its reasons are the usual ones, including trying to impress shareholders and potential customers, especially business customers.

Added to this, probably, is a push to lay the groundwork for converting users to a software-as-a-service model generating ongoing revenue from fees, sales of ancillary products, and/or advertising.

I doubt that the desperation has much to do with the cost of supporting older versions. M$ could have turned that into a profit opportunity a long time ago by offering to support older versions for a price after the initial support period ends. Their lack of interest in doing so suggests that they believe there is much more money to be made in the subscription model.

Reply | Quote

Would that still start automatically even if you have Windows Update set to ‘check for updates but let me choose to download and update’?

Reply | Quote

The elephant in the room is that an unchecked update got installed. What contributed to making this happen?

MS has delivered ‘the upgrade to W10’ through windows update with unique attributes: there is no KB number, you can not hide it and you can not uninstall it (thru WU) if it installs.

That is a unique setup. Other updates do not have those attributes. So no mistake has been made. There would have had to be a coding change to override the unchecked status of the update.

There is also one more unique characteristic of this update, it is optional/recommended.

I can not find a single official policy statement from MS on optional/recommended updates when it comes to W7/8 Home and Pro licenses. Ultimate licenses get optional/recommended updates because that is why it costs more.

Reply | Quote

You’ve hit many nails on the head. This is what’s missing in the current documentation. (Documentation that doesn’t come from Microsoft, it must be said.)

There’s one more missing piece: After unchecking the Win10 update, Windows Update goes in and checks it again – time after time! I’ve never seen that happen, and I’ve been watching Windows updates for a long, long time.

Reply | Quote

No. Turning off Automatic Update disrupts the behavior.

Reply | Quote

This is all very likely an intentional loop engineered into the specific coding for this update designed to catch the user in the same manner as happened on your virtual W7 test machine. The current MS modus operandi seems to be either remain relatively silent or say something incongruous in some blog post. Everything is coordinated to force adoption of W10 in one way or another. The dropping of support on Skylake processors for W7/W8 because of so-called “deep silicon integration with the OS may have made some sense for W7 but in the case of W8/8.1 it seems without merit as W8/8.1 kernel is what W10 is built on. It was just a backdoor way of destroying an equipment path forward without adopting W10.

Reply | Quote

As a small business owner myself…

You’d have to be a head case to adopt Win 10 for business given the loss of control we’re experiencing – EVEN THOUGH this perspective puts you squarely between a rock and a hard place.

I believe we have seen the golden age of general purpose computing come and go, and about the best we can do today is adopt a “wait and see” stance.

I don’t know about you but my Win 7 and 8.1 systems are running beautifully.

-Noel

Reply | Quote

All are valid reasons. Just mentioning that Microsoft is supporting discontinued systems like Windows 2003/XP at preminum rates for those large organizations which for various reasons cannot upgrade and have the funds available.
I fully agree with what Noel says that ‘I believe we have seen the golden age of general purpose computing come and go, and about the best we can do today is adopt a “wait and see” stance.’
I am wondering though how much different is Windows 10 when compared to Windows 8.1? I personally see Windows 10 like the next major update for Windows 8 series after 8.1, April 2014 Update – KB2919355 and the November 2014 Rollup – KB3000853. So this would be the 4th try to fix Windows 8 in my view.

Reply | Quote

I will tell you a scenario where this is possible without any code change and within the current rules. We have already had few versions of KB2952664 and KB2977759 among others. The trick is that while they are named the same, the metadata behind them is different and as such they can coexist. They are completely different from any point of view, except their name. This is obvious in WSUS where older versions are expired (or ‘pulled’ from Windows Update) while the new one is made available. The default behaviour is that a newer version replaces the old one in place, but not with those updates. A ‘normal’ update is KB2574819 where v2 replaced the buggy original release in place few years ago and most new versions behave like this one.
The only thing which seems to be unusual now is that an Optional update is made somehow Recommended and this is something which I cannot reproduce in WSUS for analysis as I think it does not target enterprise customers and as such does not appear in WSUS. If I will find anything relevant, I will post here.

Reply | Quote

P.S. I think I can explain what happens. There is a new category of Upgrades in WSUS and the closest equivalent Upgrade to the one in Woody’s screenshot is Upgrade to Windows 10 Pro, version 1511, 10586 – en-us, Retail. This was released on December 16th 2015 without being updating since then.
In WSUS the traditional categories which have their equivalent in normal Windows Update are:
– Critical Updates and Security Updates – both come under Important Updates in WU
– Updates which are either Recommended or Optional in WU
Anything else like Feature Packs, Update Rollups etc falls under one of those categories above in WU, i.e Important, Recommended or Optional.
Now we have a new one introduced with Windows 10 Upgrade named Upgrades which did not exist before.
My assumption is that one of the recent updates for Windows 7 have enabled this functionality in WU while being enabled on the Microsoft servers too. It may be one of the Windows Update Client or another update.
Where does it fall under WU? It appears that it is under Optional, but not behaving as such and this explains the different behaviour.
Think about it as another category in addition to Important, Recommended, Optional and now Upgrades.

Reply | Quote

Yep, we’ve had lots of “metadata changes” that coincide with Optional updates turning into Recommended. And, yep, when the metadata changes, the KB may well go from hidden to unhidden-and-checked.

This one’s different, though. You can’t hide it. And if you uncheck it, WU immediately checks it, every time WU runs.

Very strange behavior. Microsoft clearly made this a special case. All the better to trap you with, m’dear…

Reply | Quote

Perhaps it could also be simply ascribed to bad behavior on the part of MS?

Reply | Quote

Have there been any reported cases of this showing up on a domain connected machine? As troubling as all of this is, I’m thinking that would crank up the hysteria by another couple of factors.

Reply | Quote

Yes, the spontaneous has been reported on domain-joined computers. It hasn’t happened to me, so I can’t confirm, but apparently this can happen when (a) the domain-joined computer has an admin account that can access Windows Update directly and/or (b) the domain’s update server is set to automatically install “recommended” updates.

Any ab-so-lutely sure observations most welcome, if anyone wants to chime in here.

Reply | Quote

I have been doing my own research and all points to the documented behaviour from KB3080351. This is consistent with what Josh Mayfield, the developer of GWX Control Panel says on his home page that the only thing that matters is KB3035583.
Anything else like Diagnostic Tracking Service and the updates that install and enhance its functionality are less relevant in relation to blocking the forced upgrade and as such not worth the effort to track them down, at least for the purpose of blocking the upgrade.
There have been claims that Windows 10 is offered or pushed to domain joined computers. This is true and I can reproduce that behaviour, but only possible if:
– Windows 7 version is Pro and not Enterprise.
– KB3035583 is installed from Windows Update and not WSUS, where this update is not offered. This means such a domain is loosely managed for updates or not at all, which is typical for many small businesses.
– Group Policies and/or Registry keys blocking the upgrade are not set, in which case normal behaviour of KB3035583 applies.
– The other prerequisites are also satisfied – see KB3080351
The conclusion is that following Woody’s recommendations here and on InfoWorld site fully prevents Windows 10 Upgrade to be pushed on Windows 7 (and Windows 8.1) against end-users acceptance.
GWX Control Panel makes it even easier to prevent the upgrade for those users less familiar with the technicalities presented here and on various other sites.
Trust Woody, he had this right almost one year ago when this started happening for the first time.

Reply | Quote

That’s precisely it, combined with the weird new behavior of “Upgrade to Windows 10 Pro, version 1511, 10586” (it stays checked, no matter what you do), and the Automatic Update behavior (which I think changed on Saturday, see my new note)

Reply | Quote

Read this mumbojumbo yet? http://news.softpedia.com/news/microsoft-says-it-s-not-forcing-anyone-to-upgrade-to-windows-10-501752.shtml

Reply | Quote

Interesting! I’m guessing by the tone of the article that Bogdan’s a bit skeptical.

I fully expected this would happen Now we’ll see a rush of other publications, stumbling all over each other, explaining how thousands (tens of thousands? hundreds of thousands?) of experienced Windows folks invited the wolf into the chicken house.

Then, after a suitable respite, we’ll see how the number of Windows 10 monthly active users is up from 200 million to 300 or 400 million.

Watch. It’ll happen.

Reply | Quote

I awoke to the Windows 10 login screen this morning. I simply want to stay on Windows 7.
“The very last step in the new installation sequence involves clicking “Accept” on the EULA, the End User License Agreement. If you click “Decline,” the whole update unwinds and your system should be restored to its original Windows 7 or 8.1 state.” This is what I did. However, “Upgrade to Windows 10 Pro, version 1511, 10586” with a “Failed” status remains. How do I keep this from installing again?

Reply | Quote

GWX Control Panel!

Reply | Quote

Thank You.

Reply | Quote