Microsoft just announced that Win10 1803 is “fully available” thus overriding at least one of your settings for blocking the inevitable upgrade. This,
[See the full post at: Win10 version 1803 declared “fully available,” throwing Update for Business under the bus]
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There are isolated problems with current patches, but they are well-known and documented on this site. |
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Win10 version 1803 declared “fully available,” throwing Update for Business under the bus
- This topic has 99 replies, 30 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 11 months ago.
AuthorViewing 29 reply threadsAuthor-
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Something PKCano said definitely needs to be repeated here (tinfoil hats be d***ed):
By 2020, when Windows is an Azure cloud-based VM and not a local OS, they will put whatever they like in it and change it whenever they please. You will have absolutely no say-so and absolutely no control.
They are just getting you ready for it.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
The way things are going, with the push to AI, Azure/cloud, and Windows taking a backseat – I think you’d be crazier to not think this is where things are headed…
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You can try this trick – it may work for you.
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Microsoft says its new A.I. is so good, it’s ready to push Win10 version 1803 to your machine
So they are using AI now are they, seem to remember the one of the Quotes from the HAL 9000 computer in 2001:
“Look Dave, I can see you’re really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.”
3 users thanked author for this post.
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That is a golden question right there.
Imagine if the answer is, “Yes, we do use our AI to test all scenarios for conditions described by telemetry. That is why we collect it.”
Mind boggling thought.1 user thanked author for this post.
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IT administrators can decide when to broadly deploy once you have validated the apps, devices, and infrastructure in your organization work well with this release.
Ha! So much for telemetry and A.I.!
Or… perhaps Ms doesn’t quite have the nerves to override IT admins??
2 users thanked author for this post.
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My 111 business users use 1709 or 1803 productively without WSUS/SCCM and with hardly any issues. (Most problems here are caused by third-party software, not Microsoft’s Windows 10 or Office 365.)
2 users thanked author for this post.
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Sharing of real experience is always greatly appreciated.
-Noel
1 user thanked author for this post.
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You must have very accommodating users. There are enough quirks between Windows updates to disturb all but the simplest of users. Power users are almost certainly going to be disturbed.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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We’re running Pro in a small business environment.
And yes, we’re not stressing the same stuff – e.g., drivers – that some of those with Win 10 directly running on hardware are finding trouble with.
That being said, we’ve detected some tangible improvements in the v1803 per-monitor v2 scaling implementation. It’s more difficult to get windows to oscillate between two monitors, for example, and more of Windows’ own applications use per-monitor scaling. At this rate Windows should work with multiple high DPI monitors perfectly in 2 or 3 more major releases, and applications will start to migrate. I give it all, oh, another 5 to 10 years or so to settle out. LOL Until then, it still seems better to have all 100 ppi monitors.
-Noel
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Don’t forget that Microsoft’s new licensing model will combine Windows OS with Office 365 into one package. Can’t wait for those cumulative updates…..uh, actually I can.
Red Ruffnsore
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Alrighty then. I was planning on waiting a bit longer to push 1803. So I guess I’ll start throwing more systems into the test environment. I think a good candidate to add to that list will be our I.S. Director.
I’m not kidding either.Red Ruffnsore
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Windows 7 looking better than ever. Especially if all Microsoft updating is stopped, which is quite possible and easy.
CT
4 users thanked author for this post.
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@CT, woody and all
this is just a out-there woowoo question
Do you think there will the fateful day that “M$/they” will deactivate w7 and refuse the user to reactivate, therefore render all copy usesless???
and “they” are being ‘sold’ to another company? thus not liable for all the ‘troubles’?
Something like Monsanto to Bayer???
There are lots of gaming company that got bought over by EA and user lose all games too.
Im seeing lots of MAGE-mergers accross all industry and the worldJust thinking out-loud and looking ahead… INTO da CLOUDS
back to fishing for better dreams
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In its time, “Progress” was used as the excuse for all sorts of harm being done to people. “AI” is beginning to resemble that–an all-purpose, floating notion that is supposed to convey superiority and power that may not be questioned or denied.
To throw “AI” at us after the utter incompetence of recent months is a joke. Formerly, we could at least demand to know whether M$ was doing any testing of its software, how many were employed, etc. Now it’s all hidden behind “AI.” Like the Wizard of Oz.
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You are beta testing our AI before we can replace some hundreds of our current employees with it and then keep for ourselves all that money we now have to pay them every single month. Thanks a lot, our unfortunate, but very useful — and once gain used — users! Yours, truly, MS.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV -
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This might not be exactly ON topic, but I keep finding people worried about AIs + MS + Google + we are all going to be the slaves of those AIs. So I would like to offer here some reassurances, hoping others don’t mind too much.
Actually, to mint a cliche that would sum up for me the present situation and the situation for years to come, would be:
AIs don’t control people: people with AIs control people.
Also, I have reason to believe that the prowess of present and forthcoming AIs as entities with agency and free will capable of controlling on their own anybody, has been seriously exaggerated.
Beating the grand masters at chess and go is impressive and shows that, properly trained, such things as recurrent neural networks can these days accomplish some very complex tasks as well or better than living brains. A capability generally described with the expression “deep learning.” Which certainly can make them useful as assistants to doctors in diagnosing, surgeons in preforming tricky operations, driving autonomous vehicles in some controlled situations, performing certain skilled tasks in human-hostile environments, and what have you. But, at present, and probably also for quite some time to come, they are glorified one-trick ponies. Getting from here to running things in the complex sphere of human affairs, where they’ll face human cussedness, deviousness and guile in spades, well…
Now, some military uses of AIs might be more of a worry, in the not too distant future. As is their likely use to replace people in a variety of jobs, even some skilled ones.
So, for now, however evil Google might be feeling these days, however often Satya Nadella might have in his lips the acronym “AI”, I am not loosing any sleep over that. And neither should you, or anyone else, I really think.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV1 user thanked author for this post.
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“Computers don’t make mistakes, people do.”
The problem with using AI is that know-nothings (e.g. executives) will listen to the AI recommendations, rather than user feedback.
“What would end users know? The AI says everything is A-OK.”
-lehnerus2000
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… another post removed for content.
If you can’t behave yourself, I suggest you find another place to rant.
You’re railing against a volunteer who has helped hundreds – maybe thousands – of people who need support. I suggest you consider that before firing another personal broadside.
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That comment by “Anonymous” #198208 , motivated by this poser with 1803 and more, on the mistake MS management is making by using an AI to evaluate the performance of Windows would be right if it were a real “mistake” (assuming the comment is correct in that an AI is being used in that way). But it might not be. It could be an excuse. If the plan is to move everything to the “Cloud” and convert everything to paid subscription services, then for MS it could be a real drag on their transition to that new business model to have to keep on supporting small-time users the old way, including those that employ their Windows PCs as workstations to get their jobs done and make a living. They might be the ones being thrown under the bus.
That “mistake” could be a way to make those users go away, or, if they prefer to stay, to try hard to convince them, by comparing what they are getting now with what they might be getting soon, of how much better off they could be by subscribing to those new Cloud services as soon as they go live.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV1 user thanked author for this post.
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…thrown under the bus…
I haven’t recovered yet from the last set of tire tracks and bruises.
On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender1 user thanked author for this post.
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I believe the 365 day deferral refers to 365 days from the time a build is declared ready for business (CBB, SAC, “fully available,” or whatever they call it now). For 1703, that time will occur in July. That is what I was referring to. If you have been using the “Defer feature updates = 365” to hold off 1709 and now 1803, I believe your time is up. You are left to fight the tigers another way if you are running 1703.
So now, you are facing MS ignoring any settings you might have and upgrading you whenever they feel in the mood. Watch your back!!!
4 users thanked author for this post.
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Microsoft has never made that clear, to the best of my knowledge, but the consensus is that the “deferral days” timer starts ticking as soon as the build hits CBB.
We’ve never gone long enough to find out, really. The definitions keep changing.
4 users thanked author for this post.
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Not exactly.
Windows 7 was all I needed, but I considered it a bit risky given what MS was doing. 1511 was Win10, yet close enough to Win7, and I managed to clean it up of all the Cortana, Edge, apps, telemetry and avoid all the useless stuff that MS keeps piling on it.
IMO it’s the optimal thing to do. I have the ISO and the steps to redo the installation and customization and bring it back to what it is now in case I need to and I do weekly backups. No patches, no upgrades, no hassles. I have all apps I need — all UWP and apps are useless.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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If you’re not patching, that’s Group W – surely? But that is by no means intended as a criticism of a manoeuvre that has constructively achieved your objectives.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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I did not think it was criticism. But criticize all you want.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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I was honestly trying to think of what has been done that makes Win 10 a better “workhorse” than any or all of its predecessors.
The ONLY single thing I could think of – and I even considered the incredibly intangible value of “keeping current” – was this:
Per-monitor scaling, where you plug in multiple different monitors with disparate pixel densities, is actually a bit better now than in any prior version of Windows.
I have not run across anything else. It’s not faster, it’s not more integrated, it’s not more efficient at much of anything, even if you DO embrace Apps it’s pretty much still a wasteland…
Pardon me but this modern “fluent design” – where your App’s UI elements just slide all over the place depending on how big you make their container (“web page”, anyone?) isn’t even done very well. Take the calculator App for example… Want it big? Some parts don’t size up. Want it very small? Can’t make it as small as the old Calculator Plus application. Want it integrated with other desktop applications? The title bar is a different color and some things that are buttons aren’t actually marked as buttons. You can’t even put a full unsigned 64 bit number into it in Programmer mode…
Wait, aren’t the included Apps supposed to be flagships?
So a philosophy of staying on a chosen, fixed version of Win 10 is as good as any, though IMO it’s arguably still better to stay on Win 8.1.
-Noel
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By the way the 1803 in-place upgrade DID resolve a nasty problem 1709 had developed. I could not pass an SFC check.
I absolutely don’t and won’t consider it a valuable “feature” to have to replace an OS because in a mere 6 month lifespan the previous one had corrupted itself beyond repair.
This is a subtle point, but I predicted it would happen… Since Microsoft has DEFINED that the OS will be replaced regularly, they have no incentive to see to it that it remains stable and viable. Contrary to their philosophy, there are actually serious uses for good, high quality computers that last for years without changing much.
-Noel
5 users thanked author for this post.
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Just one question that I never got a clear answer on. Can you skip a version (feature update/upgrade or whatever the name is nowadays)? In other words: right now I use 1709. Can I safely skip 1803 and install the september-version of this year a while after Microsoft declares it ready for business? Or do I have to install first 1803 and the september-update? Microsoft created such a huge chaos that I lost track of it all. And I am afraid that is exactly what they want: make the whole update process as fuzzy as possible, so that people give up bothering and just do what Microsoft wants them to do. Typical behavior of a monopolist.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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No more updates? Nirvana.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Ed Bott questioned MS’ transparency as he and others have heard reports that 1803 is still a must avoid if at all possible. He even used the term ‘cherry-picked’ to describe his impression of MS’ blather.
3 users thanked author for this post.
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You know things have gotten really bad for the company when even a veteran MS defender like Ed Bott is questioning their practices.
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Here’s a link to Bott’s article…
And one to the Mary J. Foley article he references…
https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-declares-windows-10-april-2018-update-ready-for-businesses/
4 users thanked author for this post.
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These are Microsoft managers. Now you understand?
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Thanks for the tip. I hadn’t seen the article, but Paul’s absolutely right. As is Ed.
I wouldn’t single out 1803 as a, uh, worse disaster. ALL of the Win10 versions have been disasters initially. It takes a while for an OS to stabilize. Remember “wait for Service Pack 1”?
What’s galling is Microsoft’s claim that its “AI” makes 1803 superior, when it isn’t. And the decision to deem 1803 “ready for business” just shows how out-of-touch the ‘Softies have become.
PKCano got it right. MS is making up for lost time.
3 users thanked author for this post.
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Woody: “I wouldn’t single out 1803 as a, uh, worse disaster. ALL of the Win10 versions have been disasters initially”
Not just initially. The fundamental problem with Win10 is that it offers NOTHING of value over Win7, only problems and a learning curve. They screwed up by merging mobile and PC in Win8, then drew the exact opposite conclusion that they should have from it in doing Win10.
2 users thanked author for this post.
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Woody: “It takes a while for an OS to stabilize.” In the case of Win 10, that really needs a question mark at the end. Because it is hard to see how, being on a 6-month “upgrade” cadence, can any OS ever be considered “stabilized.”
Otherwise, I fully agree that ALL Windows versions I have had the luck to work with, from Windows 3 through Windows 7 (minus ME and Vista, that I skipped), became progressively somewhat less of a pain to use than they were at first. Or else I got better, as time went by, at dealing with each one of them in turn…
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV2 users thanked author for this post.
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Which is precisely why the whole concept of 6 month updates is idiotic.
4 users thanked author for this post.
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There’s nothing inherently wrong with 6 month upgrades, it’s the WAY Microsoft does this!
Ubuntu uses short term feature releases for feature upgrades (used to be six months), and for the LTS (Long Term releases), 5 years. All versions are supported until the End of Life date, and you aren’t forced to upgrade, though it is suggested to upgrade once your version reaches EOL.
As a practical matter, there’s no reason why Microsoft can’t follow this procedure…upgrades can be released every six months (for those users who are fine with beta testing, and for bleeding edge stuff), with security features backported to the earlier versions (for example, security features could be backported to 1709 or earlier versions for up to two years). And there’s no reason that the Win10 LTSB (long term support version) couldn’t be offered to home and other users without the restrictions it has now.
This is just simple economics…Microsoft does not want to support older versions, and wants home users (and eventually Pro users) to be their “Beta” support, for free. Simple as that…if Cannonical can do this, Microsoft can. They simply don’t want to.
2 users thanked author for this post.
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I believe that 1803 was released to “seekers” on April 30. It was officially released to Windows Update on May 8, Patch Tues. So Semi-Annual Channel 45 days later on June 14th (from “seeker’s” release, even less from official release to WU.
3 users thanked author for this post.
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Also, “Edit to remove HTML”, the only HTML I had in there (that’s gone now) was an underlined word. I thought the idea was “don’t paste massive gobs of useless HTML”, not “you can only use bold”.
I was going to underline one word, and copy/paste it from Word as an example, but when I did so, it generated 100+ lines of HTML. One word… That is why the moderators edit it out. No one would read or appreciate your post…
One <u>underlined text</u> using bbcode.
The bbcode to underline is <u> before and after the text you would like to underline.
I know it isn’t offered in the options, to just click… but it is fairly easy to remember and do, if you really want to individualize your responses beyond bold and italize.
Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter
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<u>underlined words<\u>
Sorry, I used the text box, and it stripped out the code in my example. Hopefully this will render properly (no expert here), using the visual reply box.
Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter
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nope, that bbcode isn’t working… guess we are stuck with bold and italicizing…
Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter
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Ahem…., maybe the buttons at the top work. (Sinck)
Edit: Looks like underline doesn’t work AT ALL!!
1 user thanked author for this post.
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There has never been an underline capability.
The ul button initiates an unnumbered list.
-Noel
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Did anyone notice that their “AI” supposedly cherry picked systems to update so that the upgrade would just seem more smooth?
Not that it IS more smooth, but perception is reality, right?
And their Marketing didn’t miss a beat hyping it up as a feature.
AI is no substitute for I.
-Noel
2 users thanked author for this post.
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Article by Steve Ranger in Zdnet
Over half of users in a consumer survey claim they have experienced problems after upgrading to Windows 10.
Which? said that its research found that consumers “are still plagued with problems, ranging from minor quirks to complete PC failure that resulted in costly repairs”.
In a survey of 1,100 Which? members, the most common complaints after updating to Windows 10 were software compatibility issues, such as programs not working properly, or at all (21 percent), followed by hardware problems, such as printers and speakers no longer working (16 percent).
Members also struggled with issues such as email accounts no longer syncing and personal files being inadvertently deleted, said Which?
“Some consumers suffered PC slowdown and, in some cases, members reported complete PC failure. Of those in the survey who experienced this, 46 percent said they had paid someone to fix it, at an average cost of £67 each,” noted the consumer group.
So, maybe AskWoody isn’t the sole source of complaints about Windows 10?
Here’s the press release from Which? the article is based on:
1 user thanked author for this post.
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What is Which??
But seriously, this is intriguing. The first statistics I’ve seen to address how widespread are the problems users are having with Windows 10.
That said, one should withhold an opinion on this particular survey until and unless “Which?” (whoever they are) publishes their survey methodology. For example, who are the survey respondents–are they representative of the public in general, or maybe of the general computing public, or what? How were they selected for the survey–were they self-selected, or chosen at random by the pollsters?
I would love to see a known polling organization such as Gallup do a similar survey.
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Cybertooth
“Which” are the premier consumer product testing and consumer advocacy group in the UK. Their position is such that they are one of the very few organisations that can file a “supercomplaint” with the Competition Commission under monopolies law in the UK. My memory is that they show their methodology on their website http://www.which.co.uk. This one will be done on a large survey of members.
When an organisation get criticised my Which in the UK, it tends to sit up and get worried.
Chris
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Thanks, Chris.
I poked around a bit on their website last night, based on johnf’s links provided in the forum post just above mine, and I found this writeup. Unfortunately, that one doesn’t discuss how they conducted the survey, either.
It would be good to have a solidly grounded survey that we can shoot back at Windows 10 apologists (we know there are some here at Woody’s
), who tend to pooh-pooh the complaints reported here on the basis that it’s mere “anecdotal evidence, I’ve had no problems at all” or that “it’s just a hundred complainers out of 700 million users, so what.”
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Thanks, Chris. I poked around a bit on their website last night, based on johnf’s links provided in the forum post just above mine, and I found this writeup. Unfortunately, that one doesn’t discuss how they conducted the survey, either. It would be good to have a solidly grounded survey that we can shoot back at Windows 10 apologists (we know there are some here at Woody’s
), who tend to pooh-pooh the complaints reported here on the basis that it’s mere “anecdotal evidence, I’ve had no problems at all” or that “it’s just a hundred complainers out of 700 million users, so what.” Cybertooth – why don’t you ask them? They have a reputation for producing well researched investigations and, as a consumer organisation, seem pleased to engage.
Chris
Chris
Win 10 Pro x64 Group A
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