Win10 improvements in the last five years, based on Insider feedback

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The Windows Insider team just posted a fascinating list: As Windows Insiders your feedback has helped drive many changes over the years. From small fi
[See the full post at: Win10 improvements in the last five years, based on Insider feedback]

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Norio, Zaphyrus, GreatAndPowerfulTech

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woody wrote:

Anyway, take a look at the best of the best and tell me what you think.

New Edge, Focus assist, Night light, Screen snip are nice.

But otherwise it’s not much of a list for five years, is it?

Controlled Folder Access should have got a mention.

Feedback Hub has hardly improved at all, IMHO.

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Noel Carboni, AlexEiffel

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Easy windows arrangement is also a nice feature, pretty helpful on a 27″ 1440p monitor.

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it may be true, one thing that is true is that w10  isn’t doing anything to improve what they should actually improve, like Update reliability and system stability.

and dont start with: “omg windows 10 have been stable lately”  most of this guys who claim that have to alter and change stuff  in the system when things go down-

Just someone who don't want Windows to mess with its computer.

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I know you don’t want to hear it, but if you’re running relatively-new hardware and you DON’T mess around with it, it works well.

I have a couple of 5-year-old laptops running 1909 that have had zero problems since upgrades-in-place to Windows 10 (from 7 Pro). Another newer HP mini PC is also running 1909 with a clean install with no issues.

At work, 80% of our machines are on 1903 and update automatically (WSUS) without problems.

My experience supporting end users is that most of the folks having problems with Windows 10 are the ones who have been creating those problems for themselves.

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Noel Carboni, bbearren, b

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jabeattyauditor wrote:

My experience supporting end users is that most of the folks having problems with Windows 10 are the ones who have been creating those problems for themselves.

I concur.  My daily-driver desktop and my NAS are on seven-year-old platforms.  My laptop is nine years old.  I dual boot Windows 10 on my desktop and laptop.  On both, one side of the dual boot went from 7 Ultimate/(7 Pro laptop) to 8 Pro to 8.1 Pro to 10 Pro.  The other side went for 7 Ultimate directly to 10 Pro.  The NAS was purpose built and had a clean install of 10 Pro.

That’s five installations under varying circumstances.  My son has a desktop and two laptops, all 10 Home OEM.  That brings the total installation count to eight.  All are fully updated, none have had any issues other than right-click Paste not working in File Explorer’s Search box.  And that’s just been fixed with KB4532695.  I’m a Seeker/cannon-fodder, my son lets 10 Home do its thing without interference.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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RamRod, RetiredGeek

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[PKCano]

Ok, then ask yourself, are you sure everything is working 100%?  are you sure some apps didn’t get messed due to updates? even the ones you dont use?

You can convice me about update reliability, but it won’t change the fact that your systems may not be at 100% (hope that’s the case)

but even if what you claim is true, and that its the fault of the users, then explain to me, why experienced people  like Woody and others here from time to time have issues with Windows 10 if  they have the same job as you?

I doubt its because they did something to the system, people with more than 5 years of experience wouldnt do something silly right?

Until then, I won’t trust Windows 10 100%

Just someone who don't want Windows to mess with its computer.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by PKCano.

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Zaphyrus wrote:

Ok, then ask yourself, are you sure everything is working 100%? are you sure some apps didn’t get messed due to updates? even the ones you dont use?

I’ve used PowerShell to uninstall the apps I don’t use, and the apps I use all work as expected; I’ve checked. All the programs I’ve installed work, and I know that because I have a limited number of installed programs, and I use them frequently. There is no bloat on my machines, because I always take care of that early on. BCUninstaller is a good tool for that, as well as Revo Uninstaller.

Zaphyrus wrote:

You can convice me about update reliability, but it won’t change the fact that your systems may not be at 100% (hope that’s the case)

Not quite sure about that inference. You hope it’s the case that my systems may not be at 100%? I do indeed check them all after a version upgrade, and use them regularly in between upgrades, and the ONLY issue I’ve had has been the right-click Paste in File Explorer’s Search box, which has just been fixed, as I mentioned.

I might add that the B side of my dual boot on my laptop and desktop have a smaller footprint than the A side, because that’s where I go when my piddlin’ around with Windows innards pooches the A side.  I can run a TeraByte Image for Windows drive image restoration and it’s all good again. The B side is mostly utilities, and yes, I also check the B side after version updates, and go there regularly as a Seeker/cannon-fodder type. I usually upgrade/update the B side after I’ve thoroughly checked the A side, and then I thoroughly check the upgraded B side. What’s the point of being a Seeker/cannon-fodder type without doing my due diligence and being able to report any issues? Still haven’t found any of merit, by the way.

Zaphyrus wrote:

but even if what you claim is true, and that its the fault of the users, then explain to me, why experienced people like Woody and others here from time to time have issues with Windows 10 if they have the same job as you?

Differences of opinion. For a couple of decades I’ve been running highly tweaked Windows, but I have been steadfast in keeping my installations fully updated with everything that Microsoft has offered them. I think that staying fully updated has a lot to do with the lack of issues with updates. I’m not the IT guy for a SOHO running business-critical software on anything, so I can just jump right in. I also use Task Scheduler to create weekly drive images early Sunday morning, so that I’m never more than a week out. I use a RoboCopy batch file to put these images on an air-gapped HDD plugged into the drive dock on my NAS. My documents are backed up with multiple copies on multiple drives on two machines and OneDrive via Robocopy batch files run by Task Scheduler. I have no fear of losing anything.

Zaphyrus wrote:

I doubt its because they did something to the system, people with more than 5 years of experience wouldnt do something silly right?

What I do with Windows and how I do it has been considered silly by many, been declared unworkable by quite a few, but I’ve been doing it for a couple of decades (since XP) with absolutely no ill effects, excellent performance and reliability. If I have a problem with Windows, I know I’m at fault, and I also know that I can straighten it out.

Most anyone can make weelky drive images. There are many very good, free drive imaging utilities, some good commercial offerings, as well as Windows own imaging utility. To me, not making weekly drive images is silly. Every problem that I’ve seen on every Windows help site I frequent (including this one) could be resolved by restoring a recent drive image. Sometimes hardware failures get involved and failed hardware needs to be replaced, but it still comes down to the final act of restoring a drive image.

As I’ve stated elsewhere, I survived a house fire in 2011 with nothing but my Dell Latitude D800 laptop and my drive images. I bought a Dell Inspiron D580, restored my drive images from one of the PC’s I lost, and had my daily-driver back with all my programs, utilities, files and settings.  My Windows 7 Ultimate was retail and transferable.

So yes, differences of opinion. We all have our reasons for doing the things that we do. A couple decades+ of practical experience have convinced me that what I’m doing is right for me. Visit my web site. It’s my AskWoody ID dot com. I’m still updating it, but you’ll get the idea, I think.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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[Zaphyrus]

Of course I wish and hope your systems are ok,

I think, you are misunderstanding the approach I am giving,  I don’t have any reasons to doubt that your systems are 100%. and I am glad to hear your clients have also 100% working machines. and of course you do a great job at reporting bugs.

but what I want to talk about is:

would you advice someone without  your utilities and experience to blindly install Windows Update?  Not until you test it aright?

then let me ask (rethorically speaking) why do you have to put your computer at risk? why do you have to deal with all that hassle why  can’t Microsoft make stable updates in the first place?

that’s my point and what i mean with windows update reliability, Updates aren’t as good as they were in Windows 7 glory days.

Just someone who don't want Windows to mess with its computer.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by Zaphyrus.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by Zaphyrus.

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Zaphyrus wrote:

would you advice someone without your utilities and experience to blindly install Windows Update? Not until you test it aright?

Read the first statement in bold red in my signature. That is my #1, primary, most important advice for everyone. And Windows has a drive imaging utility built in. Fred Langa has explained very well how to use it. Keep in mind that I also said, “Most anyone can make weelky drive images. There are many very good, free drive imaging utilities, some good commercial offerings, as well as Windows own imaging utility. To me, not making weekly drive images is silly.”

Testing means installing updates and then checking everything out. That’s what I do.

Zaphyrus wrote:

then let me ask (rethorically speaking) why do you have to put your computer at risk? why do you have to deal with all that hassle why can’t Microsoft make stable updates in the first place?

I’ve already answered that—weekly drive images created automatically using Task Scheduler. My computer is not at risk. Neither is the computer of any home user who keeps to a regimen of weekly drive imaging diligently.

Zaphyrus wrote:

that’s my point and what i mean with windows update reliability

And my point in saying, “I think that staying fully updated has a lot to do with the lack of issues with updates.” I’ve been running Windows 10 Pro since its initial RTM, staying fully updated, and for me, there have been no update reliability issues. No black screens, no BSOD’s, no restart loops, nothing but an updated Windows 10 Pro that keeps on running reliably and efficiently.

I understand Woody’s point of view, particularly for SOHO. But for home users, I don’t share that point of view. The only updates I agree with blocking are driver updates. I firmly believe that drivers should only be updated if the device in question is wonky, or capabilities that you need are available through an update, and then only update drivers from the device manufacturer, never from Microsoft.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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jab: My experience with working with roughly 1000 customers, from our computer shop, is that every feature, and some cumulative updates, brings us some business due to looping, bluescreens or whatever. Not a lot of business, but some people do experience issues that are not of their own doing. Your personal experience with a few PC’s does not extrapolate well onto the general public.

GreatAndPowerfulTech

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Kranium, phaolo, Zaphyrus

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GreatAndPowerfulTech wrote:

Your personal experience with a few PC’s does not extrapolate well onto the general public.

You misstate my experience – by a ton.

I would argue that your MSP-style experience doesn’t translate well, as you hear only of the problems, and you deal with folks who don’t know how they’ve created their own issues. Nobody walks in your door with a PC, states that it updated correctly, and that all is well.

Yes, I’m sure they tell you they did nothing. I’ve worked in that line of business – I know the stories.

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b

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Windows Sandbox Seems interesting if you’ve got Windows 10 Pro or Enterprise

--Joe

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ryegrass, wavy

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[wavy]

Windows Sandbox Yes I was just going thru their list and found this! I had never heard of it!
I will be trying it out after a backup!!
Why have I not heard of it before 🙄

Also never heard of Windows Terminal. Hyper Terminal was IIRC a third party program that was pushed by MS until it wasn’t

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by wavy.

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Adn

Dictation & text predictions

Spelling is something that many of us have struggled with at one point or another. Based on feedback, we added not one but two options in times of need: dictation (WIN+H) and text predictions for the hardware keyboard. The latter is not enabled by default, however you can find the setting under Settings > Devices > Typing.

I LIKE this . How would one start it from the GUI w/o the hot keys??

BTW when did Note pad get ‘search with Bing’ ??

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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wavy wrote:

dictation (WIN+H)

I LIKE this . How would one start it from the GUI w/o the hot keys??

Right-click Taskbar, Show touch keyboard button, click Touch keyboard, click Microphone icon

Use dictation to talk instead of type on your PC

wavy wrote:

BTW when did Note pad get ‘search with Bing’ ??

Version 1809, 11/13/2018.

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wavy

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wavy wrote:

Windows Sandbox Yes I was just going thru their list and found this! I had never heard of it!
I will be trying it out after a backup!!
Why have I not heard of it before 🙄

Because you don’t read the newsletter? 🙄

How to work and play in Win10’s new Sandbox (ISSUE 16.21.0 • 2019-06-10)

wavy wrote:

Also never heard of Windows Terminal.

It’s still a Beta, but gets mostly good reviews:

Windows Terminal (Preview) in Microsoft Store

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wavy

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GPU performance in Task Manager and how come it took MS so long when it’s always been the job on any OS to have the ability to monitor all the hardware on a device, and do so without the need for any 3rd party tools.

And still that 10 GPU task manager based informational interface is still kludgy and unrefined.

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phaolo

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woody wrote:

Emoji, kaomoji & symbols. Meh.

GPU performance in Task Manager. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I see what you did there. Meh redefined?

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Here are the top picks:

Emoji, kaomoji & symbols. Meh.
OneDrive Files On-Demand. That was a Windows 8.1 feature, dropped in the first incarnation of Win10.
Cursor & pointer size and color. I guess there are a few more options than those we had in Win 3.1.
GPU performance in Task Manager. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Feedback Hub Collections. But Google still doesn’t index the Feedback Hub – and the Internet Archive doesn’t distill it.
Sticky Notes updates. Now there’s a real barn burner.

Wow! This just fortifies what I’ve suspected for a long time so, on THAT level, why wasn’t ‘candy crush’ up there too? 🙂
/facepalm

If debian is good enough for NASA...

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doriel, Alex5723

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That list speaks volumes about what the average Windows 10 users perceive as important features… [/insert sarcastic face here]. Also, it confirms that sadly the average Windows 10 user has a level of experience using a computer akin to Aunt Martha if that’s the features he/she cares about the most, which in turn explains to my naive self why Microsoft has been hiding for years important configuration settings in out of the place locations, locking them behind multiple confirmation screens or making them available only through register edits: after all, the sysadmin life would be easier if that kind of average users don’t poke around their computer where they shouldn’t. 🙂

Anyway, I think that the only Windows 10 improvement I’ve seen so far (and I’ve been using this OS since its first incarnation), is the possibility to pause updates introduced in 1903 and I don’t think there’s anything else that’s really worth noting.

Now, the next improvement for me will be when Windows 10 stops forced updates of a version deemed to be near EOL to the latest version some 4-5 months before actually hitting EOL. (But of course, “near” is a relative term, so while my interpretation is that <1 month is near EOL, Microsoft’s interpretation can be 4-5 months earlier means nearing EOL. 😀

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I would say this list is more of a reflection of what MS and the insiders think is important not what sainted Aunt Martha thinks. Most average users want stability, consistency, and reliability out the OS. Most of the ‘features’ listed are not high on, if on the radar of average users.

Actually the list points out a serious problem MS has with all their products. They are basically mature products in a mature product space. With a mature products, any decent one will do what most users want without much fuss. Cars and TVs are examples. Both have well defined minimum requirements one expects to find in all models. Some may have more ‘features’. OSes and software in general have the same problem, there is a core functionality that all provide which is what the user expects.

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radosuaf, David F, wdburt1

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That’s a very good point you have raised. Indeed, Windows Insiders isn’t really thinking the same way as sainted Aunt Martha, nor do they represent (as a whole) the real “average user” in all likelihood.

Your analogy between OSes and cars/TVs seems pretty solid too. Maybe this means that we are just going to see an increase in the list of bloatware that comes packaged into Windows or improvements to ‘features’ that the real average user hardly cares for, just for the sake of ‘spicing up’ the OS in an attempt to make it more attractive and distinguishable from its competitors in the same product space.

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That article does have a few actually useful features scattered around

• GPU usage in task manager isn’t a critical feature, but it’s nice, especially in these days of hardware acceleration everywhere
• The notepad updates are great and I find notepad actually useful now because of them
• Sandbox is like half a feature, it could actually be really useful if you could optionally preserve state within a sandbox

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Notepad is becoming NoteAd and that’s the trend with Windows 10 and now that 7’s EOL and 8.1 is not even large enough to rate a blip on the RADAR screen what new monetization methods will creep into 10 in the dead of night.

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There are advertising plans for Notepad? Please elaborate.

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I believe he is speaking of this bit of news making the rounds lately:

[https://betanews.]com/2020/01/21/micrsoft-ads-wordpad/

I’m not sure how reliable it is.

[please note my use of square brackets to break the link]

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You and I know that Wordpad <> Notepad

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b

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Norio wrote:

I believe he is speaking of this bit of news making the rounds lately:

[https://betanews].com/2020/01/21/micrsoft-ads-wordpad/

I’m not sure how reliable it is.

With the doomsday clock at 100 seconds to midnight, I’m not sure we should really be worrying about a public service announcement being trialed in an Insider Preview version of Windows 10.

If we must discuss, then consider who will see this IF one or two of the six variations make it into a semi-annual channel feature release. Wordpad is hardly used by anyone, but it’s the closest to a word processor which is included with Windows. So hinting about a better, FREE, online Word (and Excel/Powerpoint) is a nice benefit to those who may not wish to purchase Office. Can this really be classed as an advertisement? It’s drawing attention to a free bonus.

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b wrote:

So hinting about a better, FREE, online Word (and Excel/Powerpoint) is a nice benefit to those who may not wish to purchase Office. Can this really be classed as an advertisement? It’s drawing attention to a free bonus.

Of course it is an ad!

GWX was adware too, even though it only appeared for people for whom the Windows 10 free upgrade was available.

The “Get MS Office” app that comes preinstalled in Windows 10 (and pops up an ad for Office on first run) is adware.  The integration of OneDrive and the presence of Xbox in Windows 10 are ads too, since the user hasn’t indicated any intent to use those things.  Ads come in a lot of forms… product placement in a movie may escape people’s notice as advertising, but it is.  So are preinstalled apps connected with services the user has not indicated that he wants to use with those apps.

It wasn’t Windows (as on the PC platform) that first did this.  Preinstalled smartphone or tablet apps for eBay, Facebook, Pinterest, Netflix, etc., have been around a long time, and are also ads themselves, not to mention the ads within them.   When they are ads that cannot be easily removed, that’s even worse.  If you’re going to put garbage on there, at least respect the user enough to make it removable (through the usual uninstallation methods).  But that’s not what the advertisers are paying for… they’re paying for the non-removability, as you’re more likely to use an app that is there (even if you don’t want it) than one that is not there, so you’re stuck with them, because what Facebook or Netflix wants is more important than what the owner of a phone costing hundreds, even a thousand dollars wants.

And now, of course, this “wonderful” annoyance with phones has infected the PC as well.  Sweet.

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radosuaf, Cybertooth, David F, DrBonzo

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With a need to create MS account to be able to use it, it’s not exactly “free”, is it? 🙂

 

Also, Google services are in the same way “free”, but outside the web browser you’re not pestered with their ads on Android for example…

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Cybertooth, AlexEiffel, PKCano

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[ek]

In my book, the list of “improvements” is pathetic for a 5 year scope for a OS with a relatively rapid release cadence.

It just confirms my suspicions of the Win 10 effort: that the product/dev teams are probably spending most of their time mired in project churn & wheel spinning.  Much of this probably due to being stuck in a reactive-mode chaos caused by the relatively rapid release schedule.  They just can’t handle it effectively, so actual measurable productivity goes out the window.

The product (and consumers) would fare so much better if the release cadence was dialed way way back to give the product teams and devs room enough to do the good work they are capable of.

It’s clear to me that the current release cadence has not added any value to Win10 and it is surely costing MS a lot of $$$ (e.g.: wasted productivity, PR impacts) by ignoring the reality and sticking with it at all costs.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by ek.

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Kranium, AlexEiffel, wavy, AngryJohnny75, Cybertooth, OscarCP

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ek: “ by ignoring the reality and sticking with it at all costs.”

I think that this is true and a symptom of a much more serious question than the value of the improvements to Win 10 being questioned here, or the fast new version release cadence.

It seems to me that keeping reality out of the picture is a fairly popular position these days, and is likely to cost dearly, not just to MS, but to everyone, the reality-ignoring included…

But “everybody is like that, so why not us as well?” is not a good enough excuse for those at the steering wheel of a trillion dollars market-valued enterprise, the kind that is “too big to fail” without taking a fairly large chunk of the local, national and even world economic resources along with them. We’ve been all there less than a dozen years ago, and many of us, whether realists of not, did not like the experience that much, as I seem to remember. Of course, it will take more than MS falling down to create an equally big problem, but that is how avalanches start.

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DrBonzo

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This list is just someone’s idea of top changes. If you want a more complete list see What’s new in Windows 10. There’s a linked article for every release. You’ll find an extensive list so of which you may think are more worthy than those listed in the article.

--Joe

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[doriel]

Thanks for the link. This really made me smile:

Microsoft Connected Cache

Together with Delivery Optimization, Microsoft Connected Cache installed on Windows Server or Linux can seamlessly offload your traffic to local sources, caching content efficiently at the byte range level. Connected Cache is configured as a “configure once and forget it” solution that transparently caches content that your devices on your network need.

Configure once and forget it means, it is simply not working, right? /facepalm

And if you like graphs that are totaly useless (no Y axis) here is one for you, that shows, how number of O365 users is growing. Maybe by one user per month, who knows, if there is no value shown. MS is very vague and ad focused these days.

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• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by doriel.

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Cybertooth

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Where’s the list of how many things Microsoft regressed on in terms of Windows 10?

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Kranium, Charlie, Cybertooth, doriel

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Good point.

From the top of my head, I see

-The announced deprecation of the integrated imaging tool a while ago because, you know, it is not a very useful feature to have in an OS.

-The removal of complete ReFS support from the Home and Pro versions, because again, why would you want to have data partitions in mirrored drives protected from bit rot when you could spend more money to add a NAS in a home setup or setup FreeNAS on another computer?

-The move of some anti-consumer features GPs (hear annoyance killing switches) to Enterprise version only.

-Preventing EMET from running because it is replaced by something that should be better and is probably in some ways but that is seen by some as more cumbersome to use and in the end not as good when it was introduced.

-The replacement of the quite adequate quick Windows Viewer with a bloated Photo App that wasn’t even color managed last time I checked. Could I just quickly view photos color managed on Windows, please? And while you are at it, instead of working on new emojithingies, support newer image file formats better and add the basic feature of color managing your Image viewer app. For those who used a wide-gamut monitor on Windows, you might have noticed how terribly off colors can be.

-Great ideas like moving Notepad to the store??? I am glad they backed up on this one.

-Shoveling the lock screen down your throat whether you want it or not for probably no other reason than to raise the probability you will see ads there and not know how to turn them off.

-The inability to use Windows Search as efficiently as the previous Windows versions for many months and the removal of the off switch for Bing web searches from it. The Windows Search tool that required you to click the filter box if your files were outside the official documents folder was a real productivity killer if you use it constantly all day.

-The inability to receive updates that don’t mess up printers regularly if you don’t know much about computers. I can’t count the number of times I received calls from people after a feature update because printers stopped working properly. To be fair, some of those also happened after some Windows 7 updates lately. A few years ago, I never had to deal with issues like this.

-Inefficient Frankenstein/work in process transfer of settings from the classic Control Panel to a new simplistic and less efficient UI that has less advanced features and making what you are looking for that is still in the old places only harder to find. I would have preferred they did a great one shot transfer of everything after 5 years than a bit here and there using feature releases every 6 months. What’s to gain here to have a half baked new UI? A place to set a few settings for tablet users when they don’t have their mouse around? Sigh.

-Forced telemetry. Why, why aren’t you providing an off switch? So many people don’t care, you won’t loose that many data anyway and you will stop disrespecting your power users.

-Legitimate additional privacy concerns after each feature update that have the potential to add features that don’t conform with your idea of privacy. I don’t want to be reassured you don’t sell my data, I don’t want my data online.

-Bandwidth eating features turned on by default to help Microsoft lower their cost by using your bandwidth to send updates to strangers.

-On the mildly annoying side, loss of the beautiful Aero from Vista to a less efficient and to my taste less good looking interface by default.

Those are not insider feedback drawbacks, but they represent what this OS that was supposed to be so great and useful and built according to what users would want is in exchange for some of the features mentioned here.

What did I gain that I care a bit for in exchange for all these drawbacks that comes to mind if I don’t count the under the hood security features, many of which you can’t use if you don’t have Enterprise version or are nice ideas that are not that practical or useful in reality in a home/small office setup?

-Win-X menu.

-Improvements to the command line.

-A few nice under the hood tools I don’t use often in typical work day, because probably, your OS shouldn’t be where you spend most of your time when you work.

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mulletback, ryegrass, Kranium, Cybertooth

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Somewhere around, what, 2013 (the time of Windows 8.1) I’ve essentially been tweaking and augmenting and working to retain and maintain the compute functionality I had – and needed – to get things done.

The only thing – ONLY THING – that for me Windows 10 has brought to the party and which I think is an improvement is that it offers a dark theme in Explorer – though it’s by no means complete. Even the ancient systems had re-colorable UI elements that, frankly, looked a helluva lot better than Windows 10 looks now right out of the box.

Nothing about the Windows 10 desktop is helping to integrate applications. Nothing about the OS is getting easier to use or more stable or more secure.

Each new release is just being bloated with more and more junkware that can’t be turned off, presumably to help sell the next gen of hardware.

The applications are no better. My Office/Outlook 365 in the office doesn’t give me any more functionality than the Office 2010 I run on my home system, which only had to be upgraded from Office 2003 for no reason other than 2003’s Word wouldn’t work right on Windows 8.1.

Years – no – decades of fighting to minimize backsliding just to try to maintain functionality we already had seems a long way from a celebration of progress. Pardon me if I don’t sing any praises.

Well, at least it’s still possible, with effort, to make it do most of what its predecessors did.

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ryegrass, Kranium, Charlie, SueW, AlexEiffel, wavy, AngryJohnny75, David F, doriel, AJNorth, Cybertooth, phaolo, John in Mtl, OscarCP

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Good thoughts, I agree. List of improvements looks really silly to me. I admint that WX went a long way, but still looks half-baked to me. I wonder how list of the most annoying/bad things would look like 🙂
for me the best improvements are:
Win+X 🙂
focus assistant
new paintbush 3D

Some things were chnged several times. Some things in WX are ancient – dialog when joining domain, Microsoft console, dialog when I am changing driver for printers on the server gives me path A:\ as default – thats hilarious, outlook profiles dialog, properities of folders with user accounts and permissions are incredibly small and user unfriendly. These are essentials, that matter to me. Who needs Candy Crush saga and other bloatware. Who needs new icons and curosrs. Its like changing steering wheel in your car from 1999.

Dell Latitude 3420, Intel Core i7 @ 2.8 GHz, 16GB RAM, W10 22H2 Enterprise

HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

PRUSA i3 MK3S+

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Cybertooth

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I only do clean installs on purpose-built bare metal, such as my NAS.  That is the one installation of Windows 10 in my stable that was a clean install.  I dual boot my daily-driver desktop and my Dell Latitude E5420 laptop.

When Windows 8 was released, I did an in-place upgrade one side of my dual boot on the desktop and laptop.  My existing Windows 7 Ultimate tweaks stayed pretty much intact.  All I really needed to do was to disable Homegroup’s two services, find and install StartIsBack to get rid of the Start Screen, and it still looked like Windows 7.

I still used the Windows 7 side of the dual boot as my primary, and tinkered with the Windows 8 side, keeping it fully updated on both the desktop and laptop.  Windows 8.1 was released, and I continued.  8.1 kicked out StartIsBack as incompatible, but I simply re-installed it with no ill effects whatsoever.  It enabled Homegroup in services, but it’s a simple matter to disable it again.  Both sides of my dual boot looked the same, with the exception of the Start button.  I kept 8.1 fully updated, tinkered around in it, but still used Windows 7 as my primary.

This continued with Windows 10.  In-place upgrade, StartIsBack kicked out/re-installed, Homegroup disabled in Services.  After a couple of months with Windows 10, it became my primary.  Multiple direct comparisons on the same hardware proved Windows 10 to be superior in every way that matters to me.

I have continued to keep Windows 10 fully updated, but I haven’t had to fight to keep my tweaks in place.  Changed the login screen, changed the desktop background, all my other tweaks stayed in place.  After a couple of months of Windows 10 being my primary, and all my comparisons giving the nod to Windows 10 as being superior to Windows 7,  I ran the in-place upgrade on the Windows 7 side of my dual boot on my desktop and laptop.  All my tweaks stayed (except login background/desktop background).  Disable Homegroup, install StartIsBack, and it’s all good.

And since Microsoft deprecated Homegroup, the only thing I have to do now after a version upgrade is run O&O Shutup10 and revert any changes by clicking the button.  For me there has been no fight to keep my setup tweaked to my tastes, just some minor tidying up.  Upgrading from 1903 to 1909 only changed my login screen (simple to fix), didn’t mess with my desktop background.

For me, “the compute functionality I had – and needed – to get things done” in Windows 7 Ultimate has never left, it just got more efficient and more reliable.  Keeping Windows 10 fully updated (except for Microsoft drivers) has not caused me any issues of any significance, no loss of any functionality of any significance.  I don’t need or use Search, but that’s one of the things I do check after Black Tuesdays, and the right-click Paste in the File Explorer Search box was only a hiccup, Ctrl + V still worked, and Search still worked.

That’s the sum of all the issues I’ve had with Windows 10; unimpressive, to say the least.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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If you’re using StartIsBack to enjoy a start menu like Windows 7, and are using O&O Shutup 10 to control the Windows 10 telemetry, it sounds like you’ve tweaked your Windows 10 experience to be closer to that of Windows 7, is that right?

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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[John in Mtl]

Despite 5 years of working on it, Windows10  is  still   UGLY.

“Nothing about the Windows 10 desktop is helping to integrate applications. Nothing about the OS is getting easier to use or more stable or more secure.

Each new release is just being bloated with more and more junkware that can’t be turned off, presumably to help sell the next gen of hardware.” – Noel Carboni

… My thoughts exactly!  Thanks for spelling it out, Noel.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by John in Mtl.

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Kranium, ryegrass, doriel, Fred

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In my opinion, Windows is becoming less and less practical usable 🙁 Daily activities required has been discarded or buried so deep. Multilevel menus tells about the programming bad style and indicates a questionable code quality. Maybe Windows 10 system foundation is still ok, but the construction is far from good…

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joep517 wrote:

Windows Sandbox Seems interesting if you’ve got Windows 10 Pro or Enterprise

Sandboxie is now free to use
https://www.sandboxie.com

* _ ... _ *

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[_Reassigned Account]

None of the features or apps ever impressed me as being something I really was excited about. I was sort of unimpressed with Windows 10 because there was more focus on features and flashy marketing then making the OS stable and able to work like a operating system. At least now I feel the last couple releases started to address function over form.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by _Reassigned Account.

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FWIW I’ve never seen Candy Crush on any of my machines; don’t know why, but that’s just the way it is.  PowerShell can be used to remove most apps that you don’t want.  I cleaned my machines of unused apps some time back.

For the shop owners/employees posting anecdotes about Windows 10 users bringing in their PC’s for bad update results, in view of nearly one billion Windows 10 installations, unless all the shops are having to turn away hundreds of potential customers because they are already overloaded with customers with the same issues, those anecdotal numbers aren’t significant.

I’m a Seeker/cannon-fodder.  If I find trouble with any updates, AskWoody will be the first to know.  So far, nothing to report.

Is Microsoft’s business model going to change?  “Personal computing (Windows, Surface, Xbox, etc.) saw $13.2 billion in revenue, up 2 percent. This was driven primarily by Windows, which saw good numbers in part because so many users and OEMs have been moving to Windows 10 as Windows 7 support goes through a sunsetting process. But it’s also thanks to a strong quarter for Surface and despite another slow quarter for Microsoft’s gaming business.”

Not likely.  It would take users turning away from Windows 10 in the same way that users turned away from Windows Phone to cause Microsoft to re-evaluate their business model concerning the OS.  It would take tens of millions of Windows 10 users migrating away to another OS/platform to get Microsoft’s attention.

Personally, I don’t even remotely see that happening.  The sky is not falling.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Take all those so-called improvements aside, in terms of general usability, meaning how the UI is designed to be interacted with, Win 10 is basically nothing different from Windows 95. On the good and the bad terms. The real problem for MS that they think they need to improve Windows be it necessary or not, thus resulting in unnecessary features and/or changes that cause updates to fail etc. In my humble opinion, there’s no need to improve Windows just because improvement sells well. Win 10 doesn’t make any real money to MS, this is why they let you update for free. MS makes its money in the cloud in the 2020s, and with Office and its services, but Windows as a way to earn big money like in the 90s and 2000s is over, ultimately when Apple gave away MacOs for free.

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doriel, Cybertooth, Charlie

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None of the feedback that matters was address liked Update reliability and system stability and Edge/Explorer crashing etc.

MS does not care. Time to move on to Linux……

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