Win10 Anniversary Update woes: ‘freeze’ issue thawing, but BitLocker problems emerge

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I still say it’s best to hold off on installing the Anniversary Update, version 1607. InfoWorld Woody on Windows Brad Sams: Microsoft Has Broken Milli
[See the full post at: Win10 Anniversary Update woes: ‘freeze’ issue thawing, but BitLocker problems emerge]

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In InfoWorld you wrote “It’s been 17 days since Anniversary Update was released, and weeks since it finished beta testing…”

Maybe Microsoft said that beta testing was finished. The unfortunate reality is that users have been and continue to be cannon fodder for the Win10 beta test that began in 2015 and hasn’t ended yet.

Disgusting!

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+1

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I’ve tried to install it twice on a laptop that was upgraded from 7 to 10 (1511) and appearing to act normally before the 1604 upgrade. Both times it ended with a lobotomized windows install. DCOM errors out the wazoo, broken TaskScheduler (service won’t run or if running can’t be accessed and scheduled tasks not starting), and an inability to logoff or shutdown (forever freezing on the logoff/shutdown spinning circle). Also seems to have a bunch of crash reports for a few services (like the print spooler) during startup that don’t re-appear if you re-start them. Well, that’s helpful.

Interestingly, on a fresh install of 10 (1604) in a VM, it already has some DCOM issues (although not as many) but task scheduler and shutdown/restart seem OK. Perhaps a lot of issues are coming out of the non-fresh 10 install of Windows. My past experience was that upgrades never went well — but it sure makes it easier.

DCOM Problem seems to revolve around broken permissions — surprising in a fresh install.

Another guinnea pig laptop we have was attempting to update to 1604 via our WSUS (thankfully its the only one setup to download it) — and it just gets stuck at 3% downloading.

Really seems like MS QA has gotten worse and I agree, this whole Windows 10 process has been an evolving Beta.

Sigh, dunno if we’ll ever get to 1604.

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(I assume you mean 1607.) Yeah, I think you’re hitting the problems that are widespread for people who force the upgrade from 1511 to 1607. Fresh install seems to solve most of the problems, but for most people that’s a horrible alternative!

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Oops, yes, 1607. Gotta love the numbering. Why can’t they make the version numbers easier to decipher? Build numbers, version numbers, all of it gets confusing anymore. Is it intentional?

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The more I read about the tangled mess that is the Anniversary Update, the happier I am that my little HP Stream 7 tablet doesn’t have enough free space to allow the update to install in the first place.

Which raises another question: What happens to a computer that can’t install the AU? Will it continue to receive updates for the pre-AU version of the OS, or will it eventually cease to function if it can’t update to the latest version?

I have to admit I don’t really care because I don’t use that tablet for anything of consequence, but it’s the only one of my machines that has Win10 installed at the moment, and I’m curious.

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I don’t think it’s intentional – but it’s sure as shootin’ confusing. I still prefer numbers like 10.2.2 – which is the current Win10, version 1607, build 14393.51, believe it or not.

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Anniversary update = the anniversary of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGLhuF3L48U

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Ah, the Win98 demo BSOD video. A real classic. The guy actually running the demo, Chris Capossela, is now one of Microsoft’s most senior execs, Chief Marketing Officer – in charge of marketing and advertising.

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Just a thought here maybe we are heading for a November 1511 style update same as last year as there’s still time. Or better yet a December update called “merry xmas upgrade thx for hanging in there, not like you had a choice anyway” something for everyone fixing computers and a nice catchy advertising slogan.

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Gee… I’m sorry to hear Task Scheduler isn’t working.

I guess I’ll have to manually upload telemetry to Microsoft the old fashioned way! ;-/

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🙂

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Naw, Microsoft has officially announced we won’t see a new version of Win10 until next year.

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Hanging is not a word I would use in this context — too much temptation.

Ever since I got a new laptop w 1511 installed and set it to defer wu’s in w10 pro I’ve been working wout any troubles and ill keep it this way.

Cant understand all the masochism of ppl bringing all this crap on themselves

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too all the W10 aficionados that made fun of us”old fogies” for not upgrading to the new and improved, my W7 is working just fine so “thppt” that’s a big raspberry. Thanks Woody

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HOME USER.
Had an HP laptop running W7 SP1 very nicely. Was being bugged to death to get W10 free upgrade so finally got it in last month available. Is not as fast as W7!
Have got WAU problems solved.
I DO NOT TURN MY LAPTOP ON ANYMORE.
Tired of being a beta tester!
USE APPLE SYSTEMS.
FRANKLY NOT UNDERSTANDING MS ANYMORE.
How does turning off their user base benefit the company?

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Got an email from support for a program my wife uses for her business warning about the Win10 Anniversary update causing problems with the program.

Good thing she’s still running Win7.

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Any idea which company? I’m still compiling a list of potential problems.

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You might want to consider either rolling back to Win7 (if you’re within the 31-day rollback window) or just fresh installing Win7 on the machine.

Apple has its problems, but it’s nothing like Windows.

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I took out Bitlocker when the fron page went AWOL. Since then I have (like a wally) downloaded the Anniversary upgrade. How will an >80s punter like me know when MS have corrected Bitlocker so that it can once again be used properly – or is that the $64K question?

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The way I understand it, if you can get BitLocker to work the first time, you’re OK.

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Users are not testers and never should be used as testers. This issue seems like one that would be caught be a competent (internal) testing program.

Users, even power users, do not often have the time to dig into an issue and often the resources (other webcam models/brands, etc.) to isolate the problem. Also, some hardware may not be used regularly so users may not think to formally test it.

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Yep, ProLandscape (landscape design program). prolandscape.com

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BitLocker problems… holy moly. If there’s one thing that an operating system updates should get right, it’s an encryption system able to lock up access to one’s system.

That’s the most frightening potential problem with a piece of software meant to encrypt a whole system disk. Trust in such matters is paramount.

As if the knowledge that Microsoft keeps the keys to one’s bitlocked computer were not worrisome enough…

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Woody, I think you are right.
I remember other issues with BitLocker in the past when people had BitLocker installed, uninstalled and the service stopped manually after the fact and that caused blue screens with a certain update. The patch was retired, but may have been re-released not modified after few months under a different KB if I remember well.
In an ideal world, users should not do unsupported things in the first place and if they do, they should take responsibility and not blame anyone else. The problem is that there is so much confusion about what is supported and what is not and this is true for system administrators too. Just look at the Group Policy issue with settings broken by a recent patch. Even today after few months of clarification, most system administrators don’t understand how to do the configuration correctly and this is because of the Microsoft’s own wizard which is broken and was never corrected.

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Somebody had it right several years ago.
http://dilbert.com/strip/2012-11-06

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Yep, agree!!!

I use the Bitlocker in Windows 10 Pro to do full drive encryption.

Best defense is full disk drive image backups …

Restore takes about 30 mins or so…

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HA!

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If it looks like an Onion spoof… it’s because the marketing geniuses at Microsoft devised it.

Microsoft promises free terrible coffee every month you use Edge

World’s most unpopular browser, now with opt-in SuperStalking

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/19/microsoft_promises_free_terrible_coffee_every_month_you_use_edge/

Microsoft won’t let you just run Edge and cash in : it will monitor user’s mouse and keyboard movements for “active use” of the browser. If you’re busy enough, Redmond will hand over credits.

It will take about 1,000 Bing searches and about 19 days to earn US$5 you can put towards terrible Starbucks coffee, based on Bing desktop and mobile searches.

***

Now we know at last what all that telemetry hullabaloo was about.

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But what if we want good Starbucks coffee?

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Seems motive is a cheap thing in US

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Hasn’t Microsoft did this with Windows 10 from the start? Half baked releases, beta’s that barely meet what a user would call a polished version. Edge was so a work in progress even Microsoft had to admit it was not finished by any stretch. Anniversary Edition Win 10 just looks as though Microsoft wanted to release it just after the free upgrade period and it was going to do it. After all, Microsoft has been fixing Win 10 on the fly anyway so what’s a few more months of tweaking. Of course by then we will be close to yet another big release and possible more headaches. I’m not ready to throw in the towel and install Linux distro. But I do plan on keeping Windows 8.1 machine just in case Win 10 throws me a rotten update. Maybe by 2023 I can finally say Windows 10 is mature. Gee, I’m still hoping a Windows 11 is not out of possibilities.

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Microsoft has taken big steps in pushing Windows as a means to market other Microsoft services. It’s why it was pushed free for a year. Before that Windows was just another stand alone piece of Microsoft revenue and you could buy Windows and Microsoft would not bother you. This is what happens when someone offers you something for free. They want something in return which we now know is data and a platform for marketing more Microsoft products and services. Apple has been doing this for years with OS X and nobody really complained. I do my best to keep Win 10 at bay by using local user account not Microsoft account. Using Firefox, Chrome or anything other than Edge or IE. Plus I don’t use those stupid apps from Microsoft’s app store. Turn off much of the data collection options, skip Cortana and you still have a decent Windows OS. Or just install a Linux distro and forget Windows.

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Given Windows 7 is not losing support any time soon. Mission critical users should just wait a while and not take the dive into Windows 10. Especially now when you have less time to revert back when upgrading and enough users are still having issues. Especially if you use older devices that may not have received Windows 10 support. You look at any performance tests and Windows 10 does little in improving anything. I can’t think of one solid reason you need Windows 10 over 7 or even 8.1.

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Windows 95 was the same. It was fixed only with OSR2 which was never released officially as a patch.
Windows 98 First Edition was incomplete, but fixed with the Second Edition.
Windows 98 SE and Windows XP SP2/SP3 were too good for Microsoft and people had to be forced off them as they did no longer bring revenue at Redmond. Like Windows 7 + SP1 now.
Windows NT 3.1(first release ever for the NT series) was fixed only with the release of NT 3.51.
And it goes on and on…
Vista was fixed only with SP2 bringing it very much at the same level with Windows 7 which was properly updated with SP1, although Windows 7 was good enough from release, being Vista SP3 🙂
Windows 8 was a failure fixed by Windows 8.1 plus Update 1 (April 2014).
Windows ME, although a very good OS built on Windows 98 with Windows 2000 GUI was never fixed and later discontinued due to bad press. Maybe it was designed only as a transitional version which served its purpose.
There are more examples for every Windows release.
What is expected from Windows 10 then?

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So happy I rolled back to Windows 8.1 after my little foray into Windows 10 last fall. Rolled a friend back 2 months ago as well he lasted exactly one week before he was ready to chuck his formerly reliable HP out the 4th floor window. I have tamed my Windows 8.1 beast with my customization’s and very sparing use of Windows update (last one was over 40 days ago) Stardock solved the Start Menu discomfort. Over all I am happy everything works yet I find myself booting up in Ubuntu more often (Firefox and Chrome are in sync every time) I know I could live with Linux. If I buy a new Laptop it will probably be Mac but if my plans change and I buy another PC. I will delete 10 and install just Ubuntu or Linux Mint. I am certain this current Laptop is the last MS OS I will ever use.

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So I accidentally got the V1607 installed. Now they want me to add KB3176934 and KB3176936. Thoughts??

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They just came out. Wait a day or two. Big question is if you want to stay on the Anniversary Update, or if you want to go back to the Fall Update.

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This is great! just (expletive deleted)great!
Just after I answered the email that came out after my previous comment, I decided to rest a bit. Suddenly I get the “restart now or later” message, and sure enough, the two updates were then installed! I DO have the configureAutomaticUpdates installed and the wushowhide too, but apparently neither worked!
Sassenratzenfrapppenrutz! 🙁

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You have to use wushowhide in a very specific way that’s not at all intuitive. See http://www.infoworld.com/article/3053701/microsoft-windows/block-windows-10-forced-updates-without-breaking-your-machine-part-2.html

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My bad! I skipped the “uncheck the Apply the repairs automatically” box.
Apparently that step has to be taken every time you use wushowhide since it reverts back on its own.

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Yes You need to go into Advanced Settings every time you run it.

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I have been reading where Microsoft broke the webcams. People are treating this webcam issue like a bug. It is not a bug. They did not break USB webcams.

They deliberately chose not to support x264 video streams from USB webcams in favor of using YUV so multiple programs (mainly their apps) could use the same webcam at once.

There deception, of course, is that they never shared this with the consumer and most independent app makers. They did share this with the large OEM folks.

At first their excuse was that their boiler plate Windows 10 warning was that older (even last year) equipment may not work under Windows 10.

So for all the people treating this like a Windows bug that we have been used to dealing with since Windows 95, it is not. This was a deliberate choice by Microsoft to end support for H264/X264 USB camera streams. Of course, the fallback was loud and fierce and they are trying fast to recover.

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The “bug” was twofold: There wasn’t enough information, as you say, AND it broke Microsoft’s Skype using very popular cameras.

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They just don’t give a d*** for their customers anymore!!!

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Yes, but very popular webcams using “depreciated” software applications under the Windows 10 AU. Some of the popular camera manufacturers chose not to update their applications and drivers to work with Skype. Maybe they wanted to force new hardware sales. The issue isn’t Skype is broken but the webcam backend software and drivers are by not falling in line to let Windows 10 decode MJPEG streams. Point being, I don’t think they will take the camera’s backward but force the manufacturers to a) either rewrite their applications and drivers or b) forfeit their proprietary information and let Windows take over the responsibility for those devices and merge them directly to Windows Applications solely. There are talk among insiders that they already have fixes for the most popular devices and backroom haggling is going on to get the intellectual property rights to use them.

I 100% agree Windows 10 AU is buggy, willfully deployed flawed. As a beta tester I experienced this and the latest cumulative updates is not going to make anyone happy. Heck they had to release two and you have to have both. One fixes new flaws of the other.

They have flaws that break other programs. For instance, if you run an RDP session and have Google Hangouts open on your host computer the RDP client’s taskbar is under the Hosts taskbar in full screen and you can’t use it. The only work around is to turn Hangouts “Always on Top” off. There are many “mustbeseen” applications that do the same thing. So we have to sacrifice our applications that we use and love because Microsoft wants to put out a flawed OS.

Let alone the security issues like Bitlocker, potentially data destroying flaws that is discussed in great length above.

For a long time You have constantly brought issues that you and I both know they are aware of yet send their updates and patches down the pike with no fix in sight or warning.

But I still contend the Webcam issue was not a bug, even for Skype that wouldn’t work. It was them depreciating x264 and older MJPEG standards for YUY and x265 and letting Windows take control of the decoding. The Microsoft Camera team even said so much so multiple applications can use the same decoding files.

Here is what Mike from the Camera Team told us:

“One of the main reasons that Windows is decoding MJPEG for your applications is because of performance. With the Anniversary Update to Windows 10, it is now possible for multiple applications to access the camera in ways that weren’t possible before. It was important for us to enable concurrent camera access, so Windows Hello, Microsoft Hololens and other products and features could reliably assume that the camera would be available at any given time, regardless of what other applications may be accessing it. One of the reasons this led to the MJPEG decoding is because we wanted to prevent multiple applications from decoding the same stream at the same time, which would be a duplicated effort and thus an unnecessary performance hit. This can be even more noticeable or perhaps trigger error cases on in-market devices with a hardware decoder which may be limited on how many decodes can take place simultaneously. We wanted to prevent applications from unknowingly degrading the user experience due to a platform change.

So yes, MJPEG and H.264 being decoded / filtered out is the result of a set of features we needed to implement, and this behavior was planned, designed, tested, and flighted out to our partners and Windows Insiders around the end of January of this year. We worked with partners to make sure their applications continued to function throughout this change, but we have done a poor job communicating this change out to you guys. We dropped the ball on that front, so I’d like to offer my apologies to you all. We’re working on getting better documentation out, to help answer any questions you may have. Of course, you can always reach out to us via these forums for specific issues, as we monitor them regularly, or file feedback using the Feedback Hub. We’re constantly collecting feedback on this and other issues, so we can better understand the impact on our application developers and customers. If you’re having issues adapting your application code to the NV12 / YUY2 media types, we’d like to support you through the changes you may need to make. To get you started, please refer to the documentation links in my previous post. If there are reasons why working with this format isn’t feasible for your project, please let me know, and I’ll present them to the rest of the team, to try and find the best solution for your case.”

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@Paul This is a pattern with Microsoft. I am not following closely this sort of issues, but I am convinced that it is as you say. The large OEMs are those selling the OS, everyone else, while important for business, is treated as “second class citizen” and it is all based on numbers and business priorities.

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> I still contend the Webcam issue was not a bug, even for Skype that wouldn’t work.

It all boils down to what you consider to be a “bug.” I was careful to word my reporting to take your views into account – they’re quite valid.

But why, oh why, didn’t the Skype team warn us?

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“Edge […] not closing when exiting the last tab”

I’ve seen this very rarely in IE11 on Win7. I don’t usually close the last tab, I close the whole window, so I might see it less. The difference between edge and IE11 is that when IE11 runs out of visible tab it becomes invisible (still running as a process), if you unhide and close the orphaned tab it exits normally.

Edge being IE11 running in “tile mode” with a new name (so as to escape IE’s reputation), windowing is handled differently, when it runs out of (visible) tabs it just sits there in the way, not closing.

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The “Self-Healing Tool” looks like it mostly just runs:
System Update Readiness Tool (and/or) DISM.exe /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth

Then breaks some other stuff.

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I don’t know, Woody.

I worded my way because I think it was intentional whereas the other is mistake, goof, poor coding, etc.

For the life of me Woody, someone had to think that breaking millions of webcams, some major brands, built into devices like Dells, and Hp’s that didn’t update their programs for one year or older devices and choose to let Microsoft handle the drivers, was a bad ideal.

Either way, anyone who visits Ask Woody is warned to stay away from this disaster.

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The IE11 64-bit process iexplore.exe has typically a delay of 15 seconds before shutting down after the last Tab/Window is closed. The tabs run in 32-bit processes and they have their own delay which can be controlled to a certain degree by tweaking the registry (TabShutdownDelay value). I tried to monitor and did intensive research and experiments without finding the cause of this behaviour. I know about few registry keys which modify that behaviour slightly, without completely fixing it. This presents particular interest to me working with Citrix Managed Profiles and the IE issue sometimes causes problems by not closing properly.
It is quite interesting that Edge has similar problems which may confirm what is widely suspected that Edge is IE11 adapted for new times.

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Now there’s a report that plugging a Kindle into a computer with the W10 Anniversary Update will cause a BSOD.

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Yep, the Guardian ran with it. Trying to get independent confirmation and a better description.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/25/windows-10-computers-crash-when-amazon-kindles-are-plugged-in

UPDATE: Paul Thurrott confirms

https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/77542/kindle-can-crash-pc-install-windows-10-anniversary-update

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I continue to be astounded by the number of security faults in IE also showing up in Edge…

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Microsoft released a Servicing Stack update on August 23 for 1607 which might help.

See: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3176936

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No help for me on two computers. Nor did Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1607 for x64-based Systems (KB3176934) help. All same problems I had still there.

Seems though I have a new memory and CPU hog on both boxes. System Idle Processes are at 65% minimum when you are active and jump up to 80 and 90’s when you do nothing and back down on both boxes for the CPU’s.

Not much going on either. This is new since 3176936 and 3176934 updates.

I noticed everything is lagging. Must debug and see what exactly is happening.

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Holding at 1511.
Hoping we’ll be told when AU/1607 is MS-DEFCON 5
Thanks

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System Idle Processes at around 90 when the machine is idle sounds about right for Windows 10.

But did you install the Servicing Stack I mentioned? You have to go to the Microsoft Update Catalog using IE or Edge to get it though.

This link should take you to it directly: http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/Search.aspx?q=KB3176936
Click “Add” for whichever patch matches your system then click “View basket” and then click the “Download” button.

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Xircal, I have that installed. I installed it yesterday on both boxes.

Update for Windows 10 Version 1607 for x64-based Systems (KB3176936).

It was successfully installed on 8/24/2016.

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@ Paul, the recommendation on the answers.microsoft.com site compiled by a Microsoft moderator is to revert to a previous build until M$ sorts it out. Intructions here: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-performance/windows-10-may-freeze-after-installing-the/5a60d75d-120a-4502-873c-8bfec65c82d0?page=1

The thread is up to 48 pages already even though Microsoft describes it as “a small problem”.

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Yep. That’s the discussion Microsoft shut down 10 days ago. Imagine how long it’d be if they had left it open!

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Oh, I didn’t realize they’d shut it down already.

What’s also interesting is that the invitation to post in the Feedback Hub instead (link on last post) just takes you to message which says: “We are sorry, the page you requested cannot be found.”

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Xircal, Luckily our production boxes are still on Windows 7.

Here’s my testing setup. I have an AMD testing box and an Intel testing box that I get the Windows 10 updates on down the pike like every other consumer.

We have two more testing boxes, an Intel and AMD that we get use our to get our Windows Insider updates on that are exactly the same, program wise and hardware as the two “live” update boxes.

My main point of coming on here was to share that the web cam issues as well as some of the other issues, the engineers at Microsoft deliberately sent down knowing certain things were going to break with no hope insight of a fix yet and not sloppy engineering that broke it like Powershell.

Also, the lack of communication of their intent to 3rd party developers.

On the consumer side, we had a last minute rush of people wanting to get Windows 10 before the free upgrade went out. Luckily we imaged all their systems and now working our tail off reverting their systems, while allowing them to have a Windows 10 license for when it is safe.

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OK, understand Paul.

It’s ironical that in spite of the fact that the free W10 upgrade offer expired on July 29 users can still get the OS for free provided they have a Product Key: http://www.ghacks.net/2016/08/04/free-windows-10-upgrade-78-keys/

Even users with a pre-installed Win 7 or 8/8.1 system but without a CoA sticker attached to the machine can make use of the opportunity by retrieving the Product Key from the BIOS using this free tool: https://neosmart.net/OemKey/

But I doubt very much if they’ll be many takers now that the wheels keep falling off Windows 10.

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@Xircal

” You have to go to the Microsoft Update Catalog using IE or Edge to get it though.”

Not according to this post.

https://www.askwoody.com/2016/future-windows-patches-only-available-in-the-update-catalog/#comment-81506

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Viola.

You can download it from this link, using any browser:

http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/Rss.aspx?q=KB3187022&lang=en

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Thanks for the tip.

Actually, Woody’s link in the post following yours is easier to use since it’s only necessary to replace the KB number. I just tested it to create this link which is the August Rollup: http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/Rss.aspx?q=KB3179574&lang=en

Also, the “&lang=en” part of the URL is essential in my particular case since I’m located in the Netherlands, but have an English language version of 8.1. If I omit that then I get the Dutch language patch grrrrr…

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