Win 10 ver 22H2 is corrupted–how to reinstall Win 10?

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Susan: I followed your schedule to update to Win 10 22H2 but got an unbootable system.

Would this work for an in-place restore of Windows 10 Pro 22H2:

“Here’s how to reinstall Windows 10 with your bootable USB stick:

1. Switch off the PC that needs reinstalling
2. Insert the USB stick
3. Switch on the computer
4. Wait for the bootable Windows 10 disk to be detected (you may need to adjust the boot order as explained above)
5. Set the Language, Time and currency format, and Keyboard to meet your requirements, then Next
6. Ignore the Install button and instead click Repair your computer
7. Select Troubleshoot > Reset this PC
8. You have two options: Keep my files and Remove everything – both options will lead to Windows 10 being reinstalled from the USB stick, one with your files retained, one without

When you’ve completed reinstalling Windows 10, everything should work as intended once more.”

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/windows-10-usb-boot-drive/

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How was it unbootable?  Do you have a backup? With this method you keep files but you’ll need to reinstall your applications.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Hi Susan:

I have backups but my problem is Windows. The system only gets through two BIOS screens, then goes to black. I’ve tried all the Windows 10 repair options from Windows Recovery Environment to no avail. I’ve tried Image Restore from my Macrium backups–one from 11/7/22 and one from 12/7/22 the day of Windows 10 22H2 install.

So you say the method I copied from the net should give me a good Windows 22H2 install but I will have to reinstall all the programs. Then I’ll try it tomorrow. So “Keep my files” means the files are kept on disk but programs are not installed in Windows?

Is there no way to do a “Windows in-place restore” that keeps the programs installed?

Thanks for your help.

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FYI

Just a clarification on the “Here’s how to reinstall Windows 10 with your bootable USB stick” article, the options mentioned :

8. You have two options: Keep my files and Remove everything – both options will lead to Windows 10 being reinstalled from the USB stick, one with your files retained, one without

There are actually 3 options presented via the USB Installation Media:
Choose What To Keep:
1) Keeps Personal Files And Apps
2) Keep Personal Files Only
3) Nothing

Check out this Youtube Tutorial Video – Windows 10 Reinstall Reset How To

The options to choose What To Keep is approximately at the 22 minute mark of the video.

HTH.

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If a restore give the same result then you have a hardware problem.
Have you tried a Safe Boot – press F8 on boot?

cheers, Paul

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Paul,

I have tried System Restore and also used Macrium to restore an image. Or by “restore” do you mean Windows restore?

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Paul:

I was able to get into Safe Mode with Networking, not by F8 on boot but by Windows Recovery Environment. In Safe Mode, I rolled back to Windows Pro 21H2, but still cannot boot into Windows GUI.

From within Windows Safe Mode with Networking, can one try another reinstall of Windows 22H2?

Thanks, CMA

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If restoring an image made prior to the update didn’t work and rolling back the update from safe mode also didn’t work then, as Paul T pointed out, your problem isn’t Windows related but something in your hardware (BIOS corruption, disk drive corruption or failure, memory stick failure, etc., etc.)

Continuing to try to “repair” Windows isn’t going to get you anywhere until you figure out what’s wrong with the hardware and fix it!

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Microfix

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Alejr, thanks for the insight. In Safe Mode, I got into “Advanced Display Settings” and was shocked to see “Display: Wired Display/Microsoft Basic Display Driver” instead of “EVGA GeForce 650Ti SSC Graphics Card”.  So there is definitely a hardware issue. I will have to take system into repair shop.

I greatly appreciate the assistance from Paul, Alejr, and Susan.

CMA

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If you’ve never configured the bios We’d need to know the nature of the machine to indicate how to reset the settings.

If you’ve never touched those and can work out accessing the BIOS setup program, factory defaulting them from there would probably do (check the time and date while you’re in there though!). The only other hint I could find was some crankiness around old UEFI BIOS implementations and the Intel VT-x implementation.. if you switched that on maybe turn it off again and see if the problem will resolve.. seems very unlikely.

The other plausible option is to obtain and fit any suitable temporary replacement boot drive you can wipe (and disconnect any non boot data drives, and double check you have achieved both of those before going further) and then to reinstall the OS in UEFI mode having restored default settings in the BIOS setup (which should be UEFI unless your rig is getting on).

To do that you need to use diskpart /s  from the command prompt of the recovery media to run a script to configure the drive with GPT for best operation under a UEFI BIOS (a process which will start by removing everything from the first drive it finds… so be clear this method is NOT A REPAIR, its start over) and then immediately run setup from the recovery drive through that command window (otherwise a long winded and flawed attempt at repair will commence) and select settings as you indicated (and don’t freak – Windows setup will sort out the drive letters and booting itself, you shouldn’t end up with Windows on a crazy drive letter and if that did happen it’s a test install anyway).. that should get a working OS if the machine is capable, confirming a problem setting has been removed or the original install has failed, depending on the results of the effort, and upon reinstating the original configuration (as running and shutting down a working copy of Windows should have cleared out any strange transient configuration information in the UEFI system so the original installation might actually recover)..

Of course if the replacement drive is large enough and Windows does install successfully there’s no reason not to try reinstating the backup you have on that replacement drive, knowing the original is sitting unchanged and disconnected, and thus you have at least one option for data recovery should you get something badly wrong, or should the backup prove to be flawed somehow and return the new install to the same condition, leaving you to decide if you preferred the start over or hunting for the problem non default BIOS setting as a solution.

The Windows install manoeuvre is detailed here – the simpler first disk layout making sense.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/configure-uefigpt-based-hard-drive-partitions?view=windows-11

To be honest I have that extra file on my recovery USB and an assortment of drives as getting up and running is the main thing – I don’t store much that’s critical and that which is is spread around in multiple places.

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Hi Oldguy:

Thanks for detailed post, which unfortunately is far too advanced for me to implement. However, I can get into the Aorus BIOS and report anything to you (and other experts) if you think that would be productive.

I have burned Win Pro 22H2 onto a USB stick. Is it possible to do a Windows in-place restore from within Windows Safe Mode (which I can access.)

In terms of the partitioning of the 2 internal SSDs, aren’t they already formatted and partitioned correctly?

Here are the simpler Windows install instructions I found online. Is there anything wrong with them?

Reinstall Windows 10 with your bootable USB stick.

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/windows-10-usb-boot-drive/

 

System (\\karpov) was built  in 8/2021 locally for me from following parts:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X (Zen 3) Vermeer 12-Core 3.7 GHz Socket AM4 1;

Mobo: Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite Wifi

GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 650 Ti SSC Graphics Card 01G-P4-3652-KR used from from eBay. Supports DX12 for Win 11.
Outputs 2x DVI + 1x mini-HDMI

PSU: Seasonic FOCUS Plus 750 Gold SSR-750FX 750W

Case: LIAN LI LANCOOL II MESH RGB Black LAN2MRX Tempered Glass ATX Case -Black Color 22L x 11.5W x 22H inches
Mid-tower case.

Storage: 2 X TEAMGROUP T-FORCE CARDEA ZERO Z330 512GB with SLC Cache Graphene Copper

DVD: ASUS 24x DVD-RW

RAM: : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 128GB (4 x 32GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2666 (PC4 21300) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-2666C19Q-128GTRS

O/S: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro – Full Retail Version (USB Flash Drive)

 

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Oldguy:  Further info that may be helpful:

I have a Macrium screenshot of the two internal SSD partitions with C: and D: drives, both showing as GPT, though I can’t see how to attach the .bmp

Today I took system into Staples. Tech removed and then reinstalled the Nvidia GPU, e.g., reseated it. Without installed GPU, system showed no video. “Onboard video only works with the APUs not any of the Ryzen CPUs”, e.g. not with my Ryzen 5909x CPU.

With installed GPU, video looked fine for initial part of boot sequence showing Gigabyte Aorus logo. If go into BIOS, video looks fine. If boot into Windows Safe Mode, low resolution video looks OK. Windows Recovery Enviroment screen shows Windows error code 0xxc0000001. Tech told me that error code does not indicate hardware issue, from which he concluded GPU card is OK; therefore Windows is the issue.

Thanks, CMA

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Probably its at this point you should seriously consider some sort of manual backup of your critical files so if the install craters and the backup isn’t good you at least have something you can move on with..

I take it you’ve tried the known solution for that BSOD?

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/how-to-fix-bsod-and-error-code-0xc0000001-loop/d731b858-1548-4d8d-8036-467ca9c3a43e

The big question is how did you get there as really only low level drive corruption or changing the drive controller / BIOS UEFI setting might cause it. Checking the time in BIOS is actually a way of working out if the BIOS has factory defaulted due to a failed RTC battery. If the time is right and you haven’t touched it, and Crystaldiskinfo (portable version) gives your drive the green light (well,  interface), then the only remote chance I can think of is a failure in an ELAM driver (protection product) due to a failed product update.

You can turn those drivers off, but get them on and working before going back on line..

https://winaero.com/permanently-disable-early-launch-anti-malware-protection-windows-10/

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cmar6 wrote:

shocked to see “Display: Wired Display/Microsoft Basic Display Driver”

This is expected in Safe Mode. All advanced drivers are ignored and Windows uses basic drivers for everything.

Did you (the tech) reseat the RAM and all the other connectors?

Do you have a spare HDD that you can install and load a fresh Windows onto? This will give you a test bed to see if hardware is an issue.

cheers, Paul

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Paul, thanks for clarification re Display: “Wired Display/Microsoft Basic Display Driver”.

Tech reseated GPU but not RAM or other connectors so I will see if I can get someone to do that as first solution. In BIOS, time of day is correct. What is Crystaldiskinformation?

Create a bootable media and boot the PC using the media. Done.
On the Install Windows screen, select Next > Repair your computer.
On the System Recovery Options screen, select Troubleshoot> Advanced options > Command Prompt.
Now type in the commands and hit enter:

BOOTREC /FIXMBR      "Success"
BOOTREC /FIXBOOT     access denied
BOOTREC /scanos      "Success"
BOOTREC /rebuildbcd  Did not run
Restart the PC       Did not get to Win GUI

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/how-to-fix-bsod-and-error-code-0xc0000001-loop/d731b858-1548-4d8d-8036-467ca9c3a43e

Paul, is it your considered opinion that hardware issues should be thoroughly checked out before Windows reinstall?

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Sorry I miss read the post a bit – the stop was for the Windows RE as I re-read it?

Where were you starting that environment from? If it was the hard disk it could be the UEFI firmware is handing straight to Windows and WinRE fails as the machine has been reconfigured since Windows was initially installed.

You can in fact perform the same repair on Windows RE if you assign its partition a letter first and change to that drive  and boot folder before following the script, but if it fails to hook correctly you could loose the safe mode access you have so I think you’re better to get a manual files backup of anything critical and then see if you can find a gash drive to experiment with to determine which part of the boot – UEFI – Windows boot loader – Windows kernel chain the problem lies in. These things seldom change so bar some dodgy UEFI signature updates some time back which now shouldn’t touch your system anyway, nothing else should change on its own..

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One can get into that Windows RE by booting into Windows 22H2 installation USB or sometimes by using Macrium recovery boot USB/ Fix Windows problems.

I don’t know how I would get a manual files backup other than Macrium backups I already have from 11/22 and 12/22, both File & Folder backup and Image backup. Is there a way to attach a .bmp file?

I can get into Safe Mode from Windows Recovery Environment. I wonder if there is any fix to try from within Safe Mode?

“find a gash drive to experiment with to determine which part of the boot – UEFI – Windows boot loader – Windows kernel chain the problem lies in.”

How does one carry out that sort of experiment?

Thanks, CMA

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From the looks of all this, I think I just might stay on 21H2.

"War is the remedy our enemies have chosen. And I say let us give them all they want" ----- William T. Sherman

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cmar6, rontpxz81

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My problem is that I can’t get into Windows GUI, just Safe Mode; or did you mean to do an Windows Install of 21H2?  I found on another system “Windows21H2.iso” which I downloaded in 8/2022.

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Right now, we don’t know if you have breakage in your windows software installation, both the backup and what is currently on the computer, or a subtle hardware problem, or a problem with secure boot or other bios settings.  You can try things to see what may fix the problem, or try things to see if there is evidence of what is the problem.

In the end, the best thing is to end up with a computer than is better than when everything went wrong, so you can have some satisfaction and progress.

If you are lucky, budget is not a huge problem, and your current hard drive is lacking in some way.  Hopefully it is a spinning non-SSD drive, or is too small for your future needs.  Either would justify buying a huge SSD that covers your future needs – make sure it fits in the slot for your computer.

Once you have the new SSD, do a clean install of Windows 10 (22H2) or 11 if your computer is compatible and you prefer.  This means do not attempt to restore your backup image YET.  No key entry should be needed if your computer was purchased and has one burnt in, or if you have a microsoft account, or if microsoft remembers enough other pieces of your hardware to recognize it.  Use the clean install for several full boots (not hibernate, full restart and various ways of full power off – for example power unplugged from wall if this is a laptop).  Use it for browsing and hours of normal use.  If everything is fine this should show that your hardware is ok and it is instead your software or bios that are suspect. Then there are multiple ways to try to get back to a functional system with your software and data loaded.  We can come back and discuss those later.  If you use a small number of programs and have the keys for them, it is good to start fresh by reinstalling each program and file copying your data from the backup from time to time, especially with a new o/s like Windows 11.  If that is impractical or you have several software that you have lost the key for, I recommend the for pay (and basically one-time one-computer use allowed only program) Pcmover by Laplink.

If instead you are looking for a quick fix with no cost, that may help if your software is corrupt and mysteriously also your backup image, my hunch is a bios secure boot key or signature problem.  First try the steps from microsoft for the recent secure boot patch problem: https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-patch-tuesday-kb5021233-causing-hidparse-blue-screen-on-windows-10-22h2-more/   The first step of this fix is to get into the WinRe windows recovery environment.  Google this or click the “Entry Points into WinRE” Link at the above link.

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cmar6

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Energy Saver, First thanks for the superb, comprehensive post which I believe will in the end lead me to restoring this very high end one-year-old system.

I tried the MS secure boot patch fix. As I updated 4 systems to Win 22H2 in the same time frame, I checked on one of the good systems and did not see kb5021233 installed so likely also not installed on the problem system \\karpov. Nevertheless, I was able to get into C:\ command prompt and do the xcopy of “hidparse.sys”, which turned out to be an overwrite. Not surprisingly, it did not help.

I have a young tech guy to whom I will give your instructions if I understand them correctly. (\\karpov currently holds 2 identical 1-year-old SSDs for C: and D: partitions.)

a) Are you saying to buy new SSD and do clean Win 22H2 install on that one? (if I can get a good clean Windows 10 Pro install on the system, then I will just install everything new as I have only a few programs on this chess computer.

b) I have already restored from Macrium the backup images of 11/12/22 and 12/7/22 (after Win 22H2 Feature update) to no avail. Why not first try a Windows 10 22H2 (or 21H2) install first–either clean install or retain- files install? I have both versions burned to a USB thumbnail drives.

 

 

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I’m glad you tried the hidparse fix. Since that didn’t work, and you say you have so little software installed on that machine, I think I would change plans compared to what I said.

If this was a computer you use all the time I would encourage switching to an SSD, but that mainly improves the speed of booting and updating. For a computer that is used for a limited purpose, if it isn’t booted multiple times per day, maybe don’t bother.

Yes, there could be a hardware problem, but the easiest way to find that out is probably to rule out a software problem by doing a clean install. We didn’t want you to lose data from your current hard drive because your backup is somewhat suspect considering restoring didn’t work. But since you already did the restore, if you can browse the backup (image mount it, or use the backup software to see what files it contains) and you feel comfortable that your data is there in the backup, then you could…

“Clean install” – formatting and losing data before installing Windows 10. On your system, maybe there is some problem with 22H2 but, instead of delaying finding that out, we would like to know right away. That is the reason to first try this.

But I have a hunch that a less intrusive regular “over the top reinstall” of 22H2 would probably work.

This link might work or find others about “repair install”.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/can-i-reinstall-windows-10-over-an-existing/fc9a2f39-d103-4cdb-bf72-5399cde1c4f6

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Energy Saver:

Great stuff. I will try for a Repair Install first and then, if no good, a Clean Install.

This should rule out the Windows issues.

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cmar6 wrote:

I’ve tried Image Restore from my Macrium backups–one from 11/7/22 and one from 12/7/22 the day of Windows 10 22H2 install.

How did restoring the Macrium image fail?

Win 11 home - 24H2
Attitude is a choice...Choose wisely

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cmar6

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Macrium completed the image restore successfully but still could not boot into Windows GUI.

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What partitions/data did you backup? Whole PC (all partitions) or just some partitions (drive c:)?

Always backup whole PC / all drives / all partitions.

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Yes, I had this right on Macrium–whole partitions.

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I agree with Paul T, this sounds like a hardware problem, not a Windows problem.

Win 11 home - 24H2
Attitude is a choice...Choose wisely

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cmar6

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OK, since 3 experts (you, Paul T., and Energy Saver) are inclining towards hardware issues, I plan to follow Energy Saver’s advice as soon as I get clarification from him on the process.

BTW, my symptom is Blackscreen, not Bluescreen. Would it do any good to try to run one of the Bluescreen dump programs? Would that tell us anything?

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cmar6 wrote:

BTW, my symptom is Blackscreen, not Bluescreen

Have you tried a different monitor?
Have you tried the monitor on a different computer?

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PK, nice to see you, as you have solved so many problems in the past. I swapped monitors–first thing I did. No issue with the monitor. But here’s a question for you on the Nvidia EVGA GeForce 650 in the system.  Following Susan’s advice, on 12/7/22 I did Feature update to Windows 22H2 on 4 systems.

The other 3 systems had minor issues connected with sound. On this system, \\karpov, I have Blackscreen preventing boot into Windows 10 GUI.

a) However, two Gigabyte Aorus screens come up fine before the Blackscreen. Through Window RE I can boot into Windows Safe Mode with decent video.

b) Staples tech removed GPU. Booting provided no video at all, not surprising when one reads that the high-end AMD CPUs (I have 5900x) don’t provide onboard video.

c) Immediately after 12/7/22 Win Feature update, I was still booting into Windows GUI, though with a heavy purple overcast.  It was around 12/9/22 when I lost the ability to boot into Windows GUI.

d) Is it possible that a faltering but not dead Nvidia GPU can provide very limited video in Safe Mode with Wired Display/Microsoft Basic Display Driver, but GPU is dying, accounting for purple overcast when I was still getting into Win GUI and also for inability now to get into Win GUI at all?

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When you boot into Safe Mode, you do not use your NVIDIA drivers. Windows uses generic drivers. Same for other hardware. It doesn’t use the special drivers, but uses generic ones.
So it seems to me, if you have low res graphics that are OK in Safe Mode, then it may be the graphics (or other hardware) drivers that are used in normal mode that are the source of your problem.

Maybe look for a more recent driver and try installing it in Safe Mode?

On another tack, have you checked this out #2510767. Does this thread match your issue?

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cmar6

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PK, thanks, I will work on this idea tomorrow. I tried once to find Device Manager in Safe Mode (to update the drive) but could not find it.

On your link, I did that copy today but no help.

“If you have low res graphics that are OK in Safe Mode, then it may be the graphics (or other hardware) drivers that are used in normal mode that are the source of your problem.

Maybe look for a more recent driver and try installing it in Safe Mode?”

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In a command prompt / run box, typing devmgmt.msc and pressing enter should get you into device manager.

Also in a command prompt (should it help), typing the following line will return the display adapter information:

pnputil /enum-devices /class Display

If the device has a problem this should get the text details for each one:

pnputil /enum-devices /problem /ids

This will list all the drivers – so you can look for any suspiciously new ones..

pnputil /enum-drivers

The above command can be redirected to a file.

pnputil /enum-drivers > c:\users\%username%\desktop\drivers.txt

This will put the result in drivers.txt on the desktop replacing any existing one.

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cmar6

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oldguy, That was an excellent idea. Unfortunately when I get the Command Prompt from Windows Recovery Environment, whether I am in X:\Sources\ or C:\ , whatever DOS command I try to get into Device Manager, I get the same error message:

‘devmgmt.msc’ is not recognized as an internal or external command.”

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‘devmgmt.msc’ is not recognized as an internal or external command.”

That’s very likely because in the Recovery Environment, the path for the command line to search for valid commands might not include the \Windows\system32 directory.

You can check the Recovery Environment’s path where it searches for valid commands by entering the following at a command line prompt within the Recovery Environment:

“path” without the quotes. That will return a listing of all the specific paths the command prompt interpreter will search for valid commands to run. If \Windows\system32 isn’t in the list, then you need to navigate to it “the hard way” by using the “cd” (without the quotes, again) command. It might take a couple of steps depending on just where you are in the directory structure at the Recovery Environment’s command prompt.

The easiest way for someone not having to navigate through a bunch of directories is to type the following two commands (without the quotes, of course) one at a time in the order listed:

“cd \” and once that completes, “cd \windows\system32” (please note the space between the cd and the first slash (\) as that’s part of the syntax for the command).

This should put you at a command prompt that has the current drive letter:\Windows\system32.

The default location you’re trying to get to is the \Windows\system32 directory as that’s exactly where the file “devmgmt.msc” is located. Once you’re there, you should be able to do just as @oldguy has said and type “devmgmt.msc” to launch the device manager.

If this doesn’t work to get you to the \Windows\system32 directory, please post back here for clarification or further instructions.

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cmar6

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Sorry – perhaps I should have been more explicit.. When you manage to get into safe mode you can use those to extract information even if chunks of the interface run off the display due to the low resolution so you can’t get at the information easily.. and work out what has changed..

I guess the other option is to use pnputil to pull the display driver in safe mode (forcing Windows to try to find and load the right driver at next normal boot) but if that goes wrong it could dig a deeper hole. (using the info from /enum-drivers, use /remove-device)

I’d still go with back up everything manually (so you don’t need a program to get at it all) and either reinstall Windows, or your backup, onto a completely different blank hard disk. You need to separate the hardware/BIOS and Windows software aspects of the issue or it can lead you on a long and trying detour.. I think its software but at this point it could even be some sort of malware / protection product interaction.

Perhaps another way would be to download a recent Linux “live” CDs and see if it can get to a desktop – you don’t need to have a drive connected.. Unfortunately Linspire isn’t new enough to be of use as its drivers would be too old for your card and I haven’t used one since. That said you could try both by getting the Dr Web live disk and see if that boots to a desktop and finds anything..

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cmar6 wrote:

oldguy, That was an excellent idea. Unfortunately when I get the Command Prompt from Windows Recovery Environment, whether I am in X:\Sources\ or C:\ , whatever DOS command I try to get into Device Manager, I get the same error message:

Even if you are in the correct C:\Windows\System32 directory, the devmgmt.msc (Device Manager) nor any other .msc (Management Snap-in Control) will run from the WinRE command prompt; you’ll get a “No Such Interface Supported” popup error.

This is because Windows RE isn’t actually the full Windows OS so significant parts and services required to run a Management Console aren’t up and running!

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wavy, Bob99

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Alejr: That is what I thought, though I was not in c:\windows\system32\ but I will try today anyway.

Oldguy:  “use pnputil to pull the display driver in safe mode (forcing Windows to try to find and load the right driver at next normal boot) but if that goes wrong it could dig a deeper hole (using the info from /enum-drivers, use /remove-device).”

I will look into this.

How does one backup up the system manually. My plan was to get a good Windows installation, then install Macrium Reflect, and then do a File & Folder restore from external SSD. What’s wrong with that?

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This is because Windows RE isn’t actually the full Windows OS so significant parts and services required to run a Management Console aren’t up and running!

That’s what I kinda thought, but I was holding out hope that maybe the error was due to @cmar6 not being in the directory that contained the “executable”, and that the same directory wasn’t included in the path environment variable for WinRE.

Now I know the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey used to say. 

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I finally made a tiny bit of progress today. First, as Alejr stated, Windows RE is useless for most command prompts, including “devicemgmt.msc”.

I booted into my Macrium Reflex USB recovery drive, chose Fix Windows problems, and rebooted holding down F8. I chose Windows Startup Options/ “Safe Mode with Command Prompt” it and came up in c:\windows\system32\ (a good sign.)

Now “devicemgmt.msc” takes me into the real Device Manager and checking “Display Adapters” it correctly shows “Nvidia GeForceGTX Ti” (oddly, “Monitors” shows “Non-PnP monitor” so I’ll switch out monitors, though I don’t think it will do any good.)

As usual in Device Manager, when I right click on the GPU and try “Update Monitor”, Windows does not find any better drive online or on disk than what’s already installed.

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Good to hear that you were able to boot into something aside from WinRE so that you could finally have a command line that had an environment that allowed the execution of management console snap-ins like Device Mangler.

Out of curiosity, I just went to Nvidia’s site to look for drivers. Per one of your earlier posts towards the beginning of this thread, you have a GeForce GTX 650 Ti card, so I went looking for the latest 64-bit Windows 10 drivers for it on the Game Ready Driver side. What came up was only one selection for a “GeForce Security Update Driver” with a release date of Dec. 20, 2022, and a version number of 474.14 which is WHQL certified. When I tried looking on the Studio Driver side, I struck out, as the site said there were “no certified downloads were found for this configuration” (Win 10 64 bit).

Is the driver you currently have installed version 474.14?

Further info from the driver’s download page:

NVIDIA has released a software security update display driver for desktop Kepler-series GeForce GPUs which are no longer supported by Game Ready Drivers. This update addresses issues that may lead to multiple security impacts.

Should you want to go get this driver, here’s a link directly to the download page for it:

https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/197601/en-us/

I hope this helps!

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Bob, that link was greatly appreciated. I was about to download it when I noticed that it was for Win 11, but I have Win 10 Pro.

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[Bob99]

Take another look…it’s also for Windows 10. Says so right after the words “Operating System:”

Tried copying and pasting the actual table, but it didn’t work, too much extraneous coding. 

Ok, inserting a screenshot didn’t work either    When I uploaded the post with the screenshot in it, all I saw was a screenshot in yellow of someone’s winver results for Windows 1607, which I never have had on my computer.

But it looks like the screenshot’s still attached, so please take a look at it.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Bob99.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Bob99.

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cmar6

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Great, Bob, I will go and get it and try to install it tomorrow.

CMA

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Bob99

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Thanks for your patience while I tried posting the screenshot.

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No surprise that swapping out the monitor didn’t help. I suspect that in Safe Mode/Command Prompt every monitor is seen as “Generic non-Pnp”. I then ran “pnputil /enum-devices /class Display” and it correctly returned “Nvidia GeForce GTX 650Ti” with driver name “oem8.inf” but with the ominous Status: Stopped. What the heck does that mean?

I then ran “pnputil /enum-devices /problem /ids” which gave 2 “Instance IDs for

a)  Root\VID\0000  ; Device (MS) Hyper-V Virtualization Infrastructure with a problem code and Problem Status: 0xC0000007

b) Instance ID: HDAUDIO\..etc, which also had a problem (I had lost audio before Window GUI boot failed.)

But where is the Nvidia GPU Instance ID?

Finally I tried the redirect pnputil /enum-drivers > c:\users\karpov\desktop\drivers.txt

This worked, but how to get that file to a USB drive so that I can upload it for you guys to look at?

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To oldguy and others:

Attached is “drivers.txt” (the redirected file). Does it tell you anything?

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[Bob99]

I’ve also got an Nvidia card in my machine, so I’m familiar with their versioning system. From what your uploaded file indicates, your copy of oem8.inf contains an Nvidia driver inf file that’s from driver version 456.71, the last 5 characters in the version number that’s listed for the file:

Published Name:     oem8.inf
Original Name:      nv_dispi.inf
Provider Name:      NVIDIA
Class Name:         Display adapters
Class GUID:         {4d36e968-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}
Driver Version:     09/30/2020 27.21.14.5671
Signer Name:        Microsoft Windows Hardware Compatibility Publisher

That driver was published on Sept. 30th of 2020, so it really should be updated. That’s the same version number of the driver for my card that I had just after getting my machine. That lasted until about a year later, at which time Windows decided unilaterally to update it to a newer version that existed on MS’s servers. Surprise, surprise, it worked and I had no problems with it. That also taught me a lesson to keep an eye on my video drivers and, when a video driver security update is released, go get it before MS shoves it down my throat. Just because a driver from Windows Update worked once doesn’t mean that future ones will work. 

• This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Bob99. Reason: built-in color editor for text didn't work as it should have, so reverted back to plain text

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Bob, Thanks for the very useful analysis. I got the most recent Nvidia download for my GPU, GeForce 650 Ti, a legacy model, but the driver appears to be from 12/20/2022.

So I will try an update tomorrow. If that doesn’t work, I will have to do a Windows reinstall.

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I just updated the driver for my card, a GTX 1050 Ti, a couple of weeks ago, and things went smoothly.

A heads up with the installer, though. Make sure to select a “custom” installation when offered the choice of “custom” or “standard” installations. During the initial phase of the “custom” installation setup, you should be asked on a screen to select which Nvidia software components you want to install. I de-selected everything except the actual driver itself, so no GeForce Experience, nor anything else that it offered.

A further heads up about your GPU. Nvidia will only support it with security-only updates until the end of September 2024, at which time it won’t receive ANY updates of ANY kind. This policy went into effect back in October of last year, 2021.

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wavy, cmar6

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Great advice, Bob. I had to do a manual download from the Nvidia site because Nvidia’s “GeForce Experience” would not install since it detected a legacy GeForce GPU.

However before I updating to the driver (dated 12/20/22) for my legacy GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost (on 2 systems), I came across this from 3/2022. Did this concern you when you did your driver update?

“Hackers Are Making Fake GPU Drivers Using Nvidia’s Stolen Data
MAR 8, 2022 https://www.thegamer.com/hackers-fake-gpu-drivers-nvidia/

Be careful of manually downloading Nvidia drivers.
PC Gamer said there are two serial numbers to look out for. Both are expired, but Windows will still let them through. If you’re downloading any new drivers, make sure you check for these numbers first.

43BB437D609866286DD839E1D00309F5
14781bc862e8dc503a559346f5dcc518”

How can I tell if the Nvidia install file is safe? Thanks, CMA

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[Bob99]

Besides the one “forced down my throat” by MS/WU, I’ve only ever installed drivers that I’ve downloaded directly from the Nvidia site. The link I gave you, as you’ve already seen, goes directly to the page for the security update driver for your card, so it should be safe to install that one.

Please DO NOT get drivers from any other sites besides Nvidia’s for your card. This concept is what the article in PC Gamer is talking about… folks that get drivers from sites besides the manufacturer’s official site run the risk of getting a “driver” that’s signed with a defunct signature and that contains malware. There are sites that claim to offer drivers for any piece of hardware and that their drivers are all legit, but those sites are where many folks get their infected drivers from.

EDIT: I just took a look at the article, and I believe they’re referring to drivers that are downloaded from any site besides Nvidia’s. The article says that stuff downloaded through the “Nvidia Experience” should be safe. The Nvidia Experience appears to have been renamed the “GeForce Experience” and is a software program for the newer GPUs from Nvidia to help users better-manage their GPUs for cutting edge gaming. This program also lets users download the latest drivers and I believe it does so through the Nvidia download servers that you access on their downloads page after inputting the specific graphics card you have.

EDIT: Since the article mentioned above (written and published in March), I’ve downloaded and installed two different driver updates for my Nvidia GPU from Nvidia’s site (the latest being at the beginning of this month) and have had NO problems with either one of them. Nor have I had any reports of any kind on infection from either one of the anti-crapware solutions that I use.

On a separate note, it sounds as if you may not have to worry about getting the GeForce Experience installed on your system since you say the installer detected what it called a legacy chip. In my case, I only wanted the installer to install the basic driver and nothing else, so I de-selected everything but the basic driver.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Bob99.

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wavy, cmar6

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Bob, thanks for your experience. It seems that if one gets one’s download directly from Nvidia, it should OK; at least that has been your experience.

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cmar6 wrote:

It seems that if one gets one’s download directly from Nvidia, it should OK; at least that has been your experience.

That’s 100% correct. 

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[Bob99]

@cmar6 –

I just found a page on Nvidia’s site that has screenshots of the driver installation in action, and they’re quite accurate in reflecting what you should see and what I’ve recently seen.

Please read the remainder of this post in its entirety before proceeding with any of its instructions.

Go to the following page and scroll down through the initial instructions until you get down to step 7, which has the first screenshot of the actual installer.

https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/10/related/1

During the initial setup for the installer, when it asks you for a path to store the temporary installation files and where to install the basic installer program files, accept the default locations it selects, as it shouldn’t cause any harm. In my case, I have some files stored in C:\Program Files\NVIDIA Corporation from the last couple of driver installers and no harm no foul.

On the screen shown in step 7, click on the circle labeled “NVIDIA Graphics Driver” (with nothing after it) instead of the other one that also mentions the GeForce Experience, and then click on the green button labeled “AGREE AND CONTINUE” (obviously). You’ve already found out that GeForce Experience doesn’t “like” your graphics card, so don’t try to install it. That may very well save you some heartache down the road a bit.

On the screen shown in step 8, do as their instructions say, and click on the circle labeled “Custom (Advanced)”, and then click on the green button labeled “NEXT”(kinda obvious).

On the screen shown in step 9: The square check boxes that show in the screenshot will probably exist during your installation. I did not want anything besides the bare bones driver, so I unchecked the other three boxes labeled “HD Audio Driver”, “NVIDIA GeForce Experience”, and “PhysX System Software”. You will want to do the same unless you need the HD audio driver for some reason. As far as the check box at the bottom of the screen labeled “Perform a clean installation”, I honestly don’t remember if I saw that box or not, and if I did, I don’t remember if I left it checked or if I cleared the check mark. I don’t have any special profiles saved for my card, so I may not have seen it at all. However, please read the warning with the little yellow triangle with the exclamation mark in it that appears in the screenshot, as it may be pertinent in your case. Please read the warning carefully.

By performing a clean installation of the driver, you may also clear out anything that may have been the root cause of your black screens!! Just sayin’!

By the way, I did experience some flashing and flickering of my display during the installation, and you probably will as well, so don’t be too alarmed.

Step 10 says to reboot your machine after the installer has told you that the installation is complete, but on my machine, I was told the installation was complete, and the installer didn’t ask me to restart my machine. However, I rebooted anyway for good measure. In your case, I think it would be a good idea to reboot, no matter if the installer tells you to or not.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Bob99. Reason: Added initial setup instructions

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I have to now reinstall Windows 22H2. Is there a post somewhere about how to do it without having an MS account?

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You don’t need MS account to clean install Windows 10.

Use Rufus or Ventoy to create a bootable USB.
Both have creating MS account bypass during install process.

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cmar6

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I used Rufus to create bootable USB. I assume the same is true if doing Install and retain files?

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No.
To do a CLEAN INSTALL (wipe everything) you boot from the Rufus USB.
To do an over the top Repair REINSTALL (keep your programs and data) you boot from the current Operating System, in Explorer navigate to the USB drive, and execute setup.exe on the USB drive.

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cmar6

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Thanks, PK, very valuable, I did not know that. However, I got “You can’t install Windows when running in Safe Mode.”  So now I will try Clean Install.

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I did a clean Windows 22H2 install, which at first seemed OK. I plugged in the Cat5 cable and Win recognized the network. I then double clicked Edge (the only icon on desktop) and, after a few introductory screens that I dismissed, I typed “google.com” into address bar to see if I had internet. Screen went black.

Further attempts at boot up led back to the original symptom: the mobo screens come up fine, after which I get a black screen. So a hardware issue. I have already reseated the GPU.

For a hardware issue, as I recall, the last advice was to get a new internal SSD and try a clean windows install from bootable USB onto the new internal SSD?

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As one of the people who originally suggested a new SSD – I agree that because clean install failed, a hardware failure is now suspected. But my hunch is that a hard drive or SSD will not fix it. Hard drive or SSD failures usually show traces in logs, blue screens, and bad SMART health values. Going to black screen unexpectedly is more often a bad cable (external or internal), bad battery, or something else other than hard drive. Any chance the CPU is overheating because its fan fell off or stopped spinning?

The reason I suggested an SSD was primarily so you could keep your old hard drive as a backup while testing with a clean install. Now that you have done the clean install, IMO other problems are more likely. But you will be able to reuse the SSD in some other of your computers if it does not solve the problem and that could narrow the decision.

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@cmar6 –

Whatever happened to your trying to get the latest driver for your video card installed? Something in the browser could be trying to make the card do things that it can’t with because of an outdated older driver, but that it would be able to do with the newer driver.

However, given that your video is going completely black with a clean install of Windows, albeit 22H2, I’m thinking your older card is actually on the way out and, unfortunately, no driver revision in the world is going to help with that. 

Energy Saver said your problem might be due to the fan for your CPU having possibly failed (so it doesn’t spin) or having fallen off the heat sink that it’s mounted to. Along those lines, check to see if there’s a fan associated with your video card. My GTX 1050TI has one attached from the factory.

If there is a fan on your video card, does it spin when you start your computer and/or does it start spinning after your computer’s been on for a few minutes? If you can somehow boot into safe mode, try using Edge again to go to Google and see what happens with respect to your video card. Does the fan start spinning when you launch Edge?

If there’s a fan but it doesn’t spin at all, with the computer OFF, try using a finger or a slender tool to try and gently spin the fan by hand and see if it spins. If you can’t get it to spin at all by hand, then it’s time for a new video card.

This is just the kind of hardware issue that can cause Windows to stop working or a black screen of “nothingness” to appear.

When chips such as your GPU, memory modules or, nowadays, an SSD module get too hot to work, they simply shut down with no warning. That’s why you may see heat sinks on top of things inside your computer case besides just the CPU.

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Hi Bob,

In Safe Mode, I was able to do an update to a recent driver for the Nvidia GTX 650Ti Boost. I will have a local guy look into all the excellent suggestions you and Energy Saver just put up.

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Thanks to all the experts who provided valuable insight into Windows and hardware issues: Paul T, oldguy, PK, Bob, mledman, and Energy Computer. I have to take the system into a shop and hope for the best.

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Please let us know what they say about your system with regards to a solution for it.

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The last thing I would try is a clean install of 21H1, or any older version, and disable windows updates in wumgr to see if the black screen is still the same.

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To the experts:

Here is the first look by the tech guy checking hardware issues,  DVI-d (dual-link) video cable used has one bent pin. After straightening it out, System seems to boot fine into Windows GUI (after clean install).

Is it possible that something as simple as a bad video connection can cause these symptoms? a) screen goes to black before Windows GUI;  b) even in Windows Safe Mode, screen goes to black after 15-30 minutes.

I am very skeptical, because when I took system to Staples, tech used a different video cable and we had same symptoms of screen going to black.

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cmar6 wrote:

Is it possible that something as simple as a bad video connection can cause these symptoms? a) screen goes to black before Windows GUI; b) even in Windows Safe Mode, screen goes to black after 15-30 minutes.

Absolutely!

If a pin in the original video cable you were using was bent, it’s quite possible it also damaged the corresponding pin on either the monitor or graphics card end of the connection so a “different” cable would also have the same symptoms.

If this new tech is like me, they would’ve checked for exactly that issue when they found the bent pin in the cable and, if possible, would’ve straightened it out as well. Or, if the damage was on the graphics card end of the connection and unrepairable, simply switched the repaired cable to the “other” DVI port on your graphics card (your EVGA card has 2) to get it working.

In fact, if after reseating your graphics card and trying a different video cable didn’t fix the problem, I would’ve tried using the “other” DVI port on your graphics card to see if that fixed it before giving up and telling you it was a software issue.

BTW, you said the tech at Staples used a different video cable. Did you actually see them do that or did they simply tell you they tried it and it didn’t work?

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Just another Forum Poster wrote:

it’s quite possible it also damaged the corresponding pin on either the monitor or graphics card end of the connection so a “different” cable would also have the same symptoms.

There is indirect evidence for that. When I found another DVI-D cable that I likely tried on the system, I also noticed a bent pin at one end.

I don’t remember bringing my own video cable to Staples, so the Staples tech would have to use his own video cable. However, this new young tech working on my system also has my home monitor as well as the video cable I used at home. He straightened out the bent pin because he had trouble plugging the cable in.

Alejr, as I understand your point, the DVI-D cable can be plugged into either of the two female DVI ports in the GPU in the back of the case? (Likely if I change the DVI port used, I would have to make a change in BIOS.)

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Changing which port you use for a video connection on a GPU card, even switching from DVI to HDMI to DP, never requires changes in the BIOS settings.

That’s because the GPU card itself controls those ports and it’ll “automatically” detect which one your monitor is plugged into and send the video output to that port.

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cmar6

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I can say at this point that the entire boot issue into Windows GUI one one system (\\karpov) was caused by one bad pin on one end of a DVI-D video cable. Oh well, there are those who do a clean install of Windows once/year. I had lost sound completely and now have it back, so that is also something.

Thanks to the group of top experts here who guided me. Many of you said it was a hardware issue, though I never would have thought that one bad pinout could cause such inexplicable video havoc.

I now have 4 of my 5 systems working well. One of them won’t complete the Windows boot, but that is a post for another day or week.

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When your computer boots it uses low res for the monitor until the driver is loaded and then shifts into high res. If the pin in question is required for high res mode…

cheers, Paul

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cmar6

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@cmar6

Just a thought but…

You indicated earlier in this thread that you had tried your Macrium backups of that particular PC but none of them helped resolve the video problem.

Now that you know that was a H/W problem and it’s been resolved, those backups would work if you wanted to use one to restore any apps/data you lost on that PC due to the clean install.

You could then updated it to 22H2, without it “blacking out” like it did before, and all those items would still be there afterward.

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I could “restore” with Macrium Reflect backup/restore in the sense of copying the data back to the C: or D: drive or I could do the same by copying from Windows.old, but in either case I assume the apps would not be installed in my new clean Windows.

I can certainly restore data but don’t I have to reinstall all the programs in my new Windows?

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You misunderstood what I suggested.

I didn’t mean try to restore your apps/data to the new “clean” install, I meant do the same Macrium Image restore from your backup you said you attempted way back in your post #2510069.

Since the video now works, that would restore the PC back to “exactly” where it was right before you tried to do the 22H2 update and started experiencing the blackout problem (i.e. all your apps and data would be where they were at that time.)

Then update it to 22H2, which should work with no further problems this time around, and you’d have a PC that’s been updated to 22H2 while still containing all the stuff you lost via the clean install.

Of course, it’s your call whether it’s worth the hassle to get those apps and data back this way or simply keep it “as is” with the clean install and reinstalling whichever ones were important to you.

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cmar6

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