win 10 privacy

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Hi
I have been reading and rereading your book Windows 10 all-in-one for Dummies. So in many places you; to your credit; clearly say that MS can see all your keystrokes, etc.. Thank you sir for being honest. One of the few left in your business, the vast majority has sold out to MS. So on page 153/154 you say everything you search for on your computer goes to MS. Soo, when I do a search in notes for a password for a web site or “my goodness” a bank web site or a broker web site, then MS now knows my password. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Basically you are saying every web site I go to MS is logging every keystroke, your words not mine. Why does anyone use windows 10? Please help me further understand this travesty of everything decent, honest and above board.

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MS might know you’ve been to http://www.bankofamerica.com but they don’t know your password. Also, I’m sure it doesn’t say that they are “logging every keystroke”. Maybe you could quote that part?

Windows 10 Home 22H2, Acer Aspire TC-1660 desktop + LibreOffice, non-techie

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woody

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Have there been articles here about the telemetry that is sent in Windows 10, even when you uncheck all the boxes?  I believe there are popular utilities to block that telemetry, have they been reviewed here? Most of the people I hear complain about Windows 10 mention the telemetry (or call it spying), and forced updates. Few seem to care much about the UI changes. For me, I like the new UI – keyboard search for a program works than finding it in a long list  used to.

I would request an article about the telemetry blockers for Win 10, like O&O Shutup 10. That could reassure some that Win 10 could be ok for them.

MODERATOR’S NOTE: There are numerous entries on ShutUp10 & Telemetry Searching the site should be a first step!

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BB wrote:

Basically you are saying every web site I go to MS is logging every keystroke, your words not mine.

Looking at Edition 3 (same passages in Ed. 2 on different page #s), pp. 152 has this excerpt:

That’s the carrot. Here’s the stick. If you sign in with a Microsoft account,
Microsoft
has a record of every time you’ve signed on, to every PC you use with
that account. More than that, when you crank up Edge (or Internet Explorer),
you’re logged in with your Microsoft account — which means that Microsoft can,
at least theoretically, keep records about all your browsing (except, presumably,
InPrivate browsing). Bing gets to jot down your Microsoft account every time
you search through it. Microsoft gets detailed data on any music you view in the
Windows
10 Music app. Your stock interests are logged in the Windows 10 Money
app. Even the weather you request ends up in Microsoft’s giant database. And if
you use Cortana, heaven help ya, everything you search for on your computer ends
up in Microsoft’s big database chock full of your history.

From pp. 275-6:

»»Suggested Sites (also called Bing Suggestions) is a feature added in IE 8
that keeps track of keys as you type them, sending your keystrokes to
Microsoft (Bing), generating potential matches and suggestions on the fly.
Matches are based primarily on your browsing history. To turn on Suggested
Sites, click the star Favorites (star) icon, and at the bottom of the box, select
Turn on Suggested Sites.
As you may imagine, there’s a great deal of controversy about the privacy
aspects of Suggested Sites: Microsoft records every keystroke that you type
into IE and watches your browsing history. Note that Suggested Sites is not
turned on by default: You must enable it.

and from p. 269:

If you turn on Bing Suggestions (sometimes called Suggested Sites), IE sends
all your keystrokes to Mother Microsoft and has Bing try to guess what you’re
looking for. Depending on how you feel about privacy, that may or may not be
a good idea. See the section “Turning on key features,” later in this chapter.

There does not appear to be any suggestion that Microsoft is receiving all keystrokes, all the time. I really do doubt your assertion that, “MS now knows my password”, although a statement like that could prove hard to disprove.

There are ways to not use Bing, Cortana, Internet Explorer or Edge!

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woody

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Kirsty wrote:

suggestion that Microsoft is receiving all keystrokes, all the time. I really do doubt your assertion that, “MS now knows my password”

But Windows 10 does have a build-in keylogger (for you benefit). How much is logged only Microsoft knows.

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woody

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I’ve struggled with that for years.

While it’s obviously true that Windows knows every key you press, it’s not at all clear that the keypresses are stored, much less transmitted to MS.

The same can be said of any electronic device and, increasingly, any listening device. Or refrigerator. Watch out for your car.

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Fred, Kirsty

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Hi Woody
You have more influence than anyone here. Have you “asked Microsoft if they are stored and where they are transmitted to?” I ask that with respect and I would really like to know.

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woody wrote:

I’ve struggled with that for years.

While it’s obviously true that Windows knows every key you press, it’s not at all clear that the keypresses are stored, much less transmitted to MS.

The same can be said of any electronic device and, increasingly, any listening device. Or refrigerator. Watch out for your car.

Microsoft can track your keystrokes, your speech, and more. Here are the settings to turn it all off.

Microsoft pretty much admits it has a keylogger in its Windows 10 speech, inking, typing, and privacy FAQ: “When you interact with your Windows device by speaking, writing (handwriting), or typing, Microsoft collects speech, inking, and typing information—including information about your Calendar and People (also known as contacts)…”..

https://www.pcworld.com/article/2974057/how-to-turn-off-windows-10s-keylogger-yes-it-still-has-one.html

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Following your PCWorld link to @lincoln-spector’s 2015 article, gives a link to
“Speech, voice activation, inking, typing, and privacy
Applies to: PrivacyWindows 10
Last Updated: 22 May 2019″

The wording @lincoln-spector quoted is no longer on that revised page. What it does mention in the search for “collect” is:

When you use the Microsoft cloud-based speech recognition service, Microsoft collects and uses your voice recordings to create a text transcription of the spoken words in the voice data. The voice data is used in the aggregate to help improve our ability to correctly recognize all users’ speech, so the data Microsoft collects from these online services helps to improve them.
…
When the Online speech recognition setting is turned off, speech services that don’t rely on the cloud and only use device-based recognition—like the Narrator app or the Windows Speech Recognition app—will still work, and Microsoft won’t collect any voice data.
If you’ve allowed Cortana to do so, Microsoft also collects information about your Calendar and People (also known as contacts) to help personalize your speech experience, and to help Windows and Cortana better recognize people, events, places, and music when you dictate messages or documents. The information Cortana collects will help personalize your speech experience on all your Windows devices and Cortana apps when you sign in with the same Microsoft account.
Whenever we collect data, even when it’s to make your device work better for you, we want to make sure you have all the information to make the right choices about how and when that data is used. That’s why we provide the info and controls described on this page.

It does not indicate that ALL keystrokes are transmitted to MS (or am I just reading that through a prism of rose-tinted glasses)?

The linked page gives details on how to “control data” and personalisation settings that relate to collecting things like “unique words”.

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It also says:

As part of inking and typing on your device, Windows collects unique words — like names you write — in a personal dictionary stored locally on your device, which helps you type and ink more accurately.

If you sync your Windows device settings to other Windows devices, your local user dictionary (up to 100 KB per language and 300 KB total of hard drive space) will be stored on your personal OneDrive for the purpose of enabling sharing of your dictionary with your other Windows devices.

which begs more questions. How does it decide what to store? By sending it to MS first for the decision and then storing it locally? I haven’t seen anything saying that data is not sent to MS.

Windows 10 Home 22H2, Acer Aspire TC-1660 desktop + LibreOffice, non-techie

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The Inking & Typing services can be disabled, as shown in the linked page, and syncing is an option, not a requirement…
Storing things on your OneDrive doesn’t scream “sending it to MS first” does it, or am I missing something?

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Yes, but what happens if you don’t sync your Windows device settings to other Windows devices? Sent to MS or not ? Not 100% clear, like almost everything to do with MS snooping.

Windows 10 Home 22H2, Acer Aspire TC-1660 desktop + LibreOffice, non-techie

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There is nothing to indicate that the information is “sent to MS” if the devices are not synced, based on the MS information. (Of course, that is assuming their legal department are involved in writing such information…)

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woody wrote:

I’ve struggled with that for years.

While it’s obviously true that Windows knows every key you press, it’s not at all clear that the keypresses are stored, much less transmitted to MS.

The same can be said of any electronic device and, increasingly, any listening device. Or refrigerator. Watch out for your car.

routers, smartphones, 5G, travelling to China UnitedStates Russia Iran etc, rerouting, encryption, backdoors, 0Days: this list is endless so it seems.

Maybe it’s better that one has nothing to hide, Ehhh?

Have a splended new 2020

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Thanks to all who responded. Kristy listed 3 different page/pages where Woody said all your keystrokes are going to MS.  There are actually more pages where Woody warns us. And then, unbelievably, Fred says, “Maybe it’s better that one has nothing to hide, Ehhh?”  Are you kidding me? I sincerely hope that is not the attitude here and in reading and rereading Woody’s book; first edition as best I can tell; Woody appears to be alerting us to, well in all honesty, spying on us. Please be honest here folks, No other version of Windows has done this and it is not necessary!!! I still cannot see how MS would not see my keystrokes to any password or login sites I go to. Nor can I understand why everyone here; and 99.989% are smarter than I am; are not enraged by how much MS is violating our privacy and it appears from articles and posts I have read here that MS really doesn’t care what we think. If I am wrong I apologize in advance, but from all the evidence I have seen MS is spying. Bottom line folks, this did not happen in Windows 7 if MS was honest and not crooked then they would allow us to turn off their spying and not maintain their so called basic spying which you cannot turn off. This is just the truth folks. Do all of you love MS so much you could care less about how they violate our privacy and then some even such hubris that they would tell you the only reason you would question these things; which I really would call civil liberties; is because you must have something to hide.

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BB wrote:

Bottom line folks, this did not happen in Windows 7 if MS was honest and not crooked then they would allow us to turn off their spying and not maintain their so called basic spying which you cannot turn off.

It isn’t a question of crooked. It’s a question of harvesting data, and how the data’s used.

We’re about five years away, I would reckon, from widespread use of face recognition — you walk into a shop, and a camera identifies who you are (within a margin of error). There are benefits to being recognized and there are obvious disadvantages, but the technology’s already here. My doorbell already recognizes me.

You should certainly be concerned, but singling out Microsoft doesn’t make sense. Fighting for regulation does.

As for privacy in Win7… I’m sorry, but that battle’s already been fought and largely lost. There are dozens of threads on this site about Microsoft’s enhanced “telemetry” in its Win7 patches. That said, it’s not at all clear what data Microsoft is collecting, how it’s using what’s been collected, and how it could use the data in the future.

All 100% legal. And it pales in comparison to what Google’s harvesting.

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BB, Bluetrix, Kirsty, Fred

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woody wrote:

It isn’t a question of crooked. It’s a question of harvesting data, and how the data’s used.

Depending on what considers “crooked,” of course.

I consider all data collection that is not done on an explicitly opt-in basis to be crooked.  I kind of use the GDPR definition of explicitly opting-in here; the opting-in must be fully voluntary and cannot be a condition for access to the service or item in question.  As an example, if Microsoft says that I must permit them to take my data as a condition for using Windows, and that opting-out means not using Windows, that is crooked.  It’s only not crooked if they ask me for permission to collect data at some point during the first run of Windows, and if I say no, it doesn’t collect any data for any purpose whatsoever, and still grants me full access to all of the OS that does not depend on the data slurped to function.  Of course, I would not expect Cortana to still work as it would, but I do expect the OS as a whole to work.

I, for one, single Microsoft out because they’re the only maker of an OS that I would otherwise consider using that has such data slurping “features.”  I have no smartphone (and don’t ever plan to), no Alexa or similar spy devices, no smart thermostat, no smart TV, no “smart” anything in the house.  My car is not capable of data collection or logging.  I can’t block everything, like the face recognition thing, but everything I can choose not to use, I have.

It’s true that Google is far worse than Microsoft as far as spying, but that’s why I don’t use any devices that run a Google OS.  Windows is different… I used it for a quarter of a century, back when it didn’t spy on me, and it was the default choice for an OS for all of that time.  Even now, all of my PCs that came preassembled (laptops) came with Windows, and the ones I assembled had Windows that I had to pay for deliberately (instead of having the price hidden in the purchase price of the unit).

I don’t use Windows anymore (except briefly in a VM for things that require it), but it’s still a world I can clearly remember being a part of, and that I’m at the periphery of even now.  Like being here on a Windows site, for example (I was a Windows user when I first started visiting).  I single MS out because it’s the only one that it really bothers me to avoid, and that I would not have had to avoid in years past.  Google?  They’ve been about spying since day 1.  It’s Microsoft that altered the deal, not Google.

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David F, Rick Corbett, Fred

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@BB – Many people share similar concerns about privacy so, for example, carry out the following:

1. Log into Windows using a *local* account, not a Microsoft account.
2. Use easy-to-use privacy controls like O&O ShutUp 10.
3.  Use a search engine like DuckDuckGo which doesn’t store your searches.
4. Change your DNS provider from your ISP (known for selling search queries) to another DNS provider.

There are several topics here on AskWoody about limiting telemetry and other privacy concerns.

If it *really* concerns you, use another OS like Linux for your online activities.

Hope this helps…

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BB, Fred, woody

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Rick Corbett wrote:

@BB – Many people share similar concerns about privacy so, for example, carry out the following:

1. Log into Windows using a *local* account, not a Microsoft account.
2. Use easy-to-use privacy controls like O&O ShutUp 10.
3.  Use a search engine like DuckDuckGo which doesn’t store your searches.
4. Change your DNS provider from your ISP (known for selling search queries) to another DNS provider.

There are several topics here on AskWoody about limiting telemetry and other privacy concerns.

If it *really* concerns you, use another OS like Linux for your online activities.

Hope this helps…

so, using a computer a bit more private, it will become some sort of an elevated skilled art

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Fred wrote:

so, using a computer a bit more private, it will become some sort of an elevated skilled art

Not really. Most privacy controls that are adjustable have now been automated, e.g. O&O ShutUp 10.

The other 3 steps I mentioned above need nothing more than a very average skillset. If anyone wants/needs step-by-step details then all they have to do is ask. I’m sure someone here will respond.

Hope this helps…

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BB, Cybertooth

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BB wrote:

Nor can I understand why everyone here; and 99.989% are smarter than I am; are not enraged by how much MS is violating our privacy and it appears from articles and posts I have read here that MS really doesn’t care what we think. If I am wrong I apologize in advance, but from all the evidence I have seen MS is spying.

This is not the first time I’ve posted this, but here is another reminder.  Only Microsoft owns Windows; the rest of us only license it, and by using Windows we have contractually agreed to Microsoft’s terms of service and use.

As Rick Corbett has just pointed out, we have options readily available to limit what we share with Microsoft.  The alternative is to use another OS and abandon Windows altogether.  I use OneDrive, and I stay logged in to OneDrive with a Microsoft account, but I don’t log in to any of my PC’s or laptop with anything other than a local account.  In fact, none of my Windows 10 installations even has a Microsoft account; they are local only.

I have much greater concern over Google’s aggregation of web/personal data, and I never use Google or any Google/Alphabet entities; no Chrome, no CrEdge, no Chromebooks for me.  So far I’ve managed to avoid “targeted ads”, except from Amazon, and those only come to me via email, since I use Amazon quite a lot.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

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BB

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Hi
Thanks bbearren. I agree totally. I too avoid Chrome, and Google is the worst. I have just started using win 10 with a borrowed laptop which I may buy. I log in with a local account and have turned off all the privacy concerns in settings which Woody’s book was very helpful to me! I will continue to browse around here for I am sure I will find much to learn. But still, our corrupt politicians could do something about this. Sad that Europe in this area is way ahead of us as for as protecting privacy. I guess we all need to call our congressmen and senators and demand they do something. I know I am going to do just that. Thanks again for you advice.

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woody wrote:

As for privacy in Win7… I’m sorry, but that battle’s already been fought and largely lost. There are dozens of threads on this site about Microsoft’s enhanced “telemetry” in its Win7 patches. That said, it’s not at all clear what data Microsoft is collecting, how it’s using what’s been collected, and how it could use the data in the future.

Here is an article about what data Microsoft has collected on Vista PCs. I am sure the list grew much longer on Windows 10.

Forget about the WGA! 20+ Windows Vista Features and Services Harvest User Data for Microsoft
From your machine!

Are you using Windows Vista? Then you might as well know that the licensed operating system installed on your machine is harvesting a healthy volume of information for Microsoft. In this context, a program such as the Windows Genuine Advantage is the last of your concerns. In fact, in excess of 20 Windows Vista features and services are hard at work collecting and transmitting your personal data to the Redmond company….

..Had Enough? I Didn’t Think So!

Microsoft has an additional collection of 47 Windows Vista features and services that collect user data. However, not all phone home and report to Microsoft…

https://news.softpedia.com/news/Forget-about-the-WGA-20-Windows-Vista-Features-and-Services-Harvest-User-Data-for-Microsoft-58752.shtml

I keep that link to remind people about Microsoft’s data harvesting.

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BB, Fred

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[Fred]

[@]BB besides all good advice given in this long thread already, there is a whole lot of “interesting” sneeky stuff out there.
For instance: Try to look in browser-canvassing, a way to identify an individual by pc and browsing behaviour. That all will be linked to other data “given” to the wwweb, willingly or not …. From deep-package-inspection, cookies, trackers, pixels and many more like facebook, msmessenger, instagram, whatsapp, insurances, medicare, data-base-hacks, webshops etc+.
Last but not least: Edward Snowden had some interesting information too.
In spite of GDPR rulings and espionage-legislation ‘these times call for intensive datatracking, and calls for decryption-backdoors’, so many politicians claim.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/06/gdpr-and-browser-fingerprinting-how-it-changes-game-sneakiest-web-trackers
.

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• This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by Fred.

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