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Patch reliability is unclear, but widespread attacks make patching prudent. Go ahead and patch, but watch out for potential problems. |
(US Centric post) Tomorrow marks the day that the phone companies will shut off 3G services in order to make room for 5G. If you have an older flip ph
[See the full post at: Will your flip phone work tomorrow?]
Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher
At the same time, I am thinking of getting the Apple Lightning Ethernet adapter for iPhone…
For all your high speed transfers in RF-crowded areas 
Remember that the RF spectrum is a FINITE ressource!
Martin
I liked this part….
=====
If you are unsure, call them (*) today rather than tomorrow.
(*)yes I know, dealing with their telephone support gives us all high blood pressure. I have to mentally tell myself to lower my voice and calm down when dealing with them. From the annoying phone menu system to having to go through the basics (yes I rebooted my phone), they are definitely not my favorite tech support experience.
=====
Since I used to do technical support for software and hardware companies back in the days from XTs and DOS to about the Windows 98 era (before I started doing IT for individual companies), so I have a feel for the miserable suffering that support and service reps go through each day on the phone. Treat them nice and you may be surprised what kind of things they can do for you!
//Steve//
My last two upgrades where both free. The first from a flip phone to a smart phone and then again from a 3g smart phone to another smart phone for 5g.
It all works for me. I only use my smart phone for very limited travel and emergencies. I don’t even leave it on unless I need to use it. A charge lasts for several months at the level of use it gets. Other than for phone calls (goes without saying), my PC is much easier to use.
The major USA networks seem to have different deadline dates; AT&T Feb. 22, 2022, T-Mobile March 31, 2022, Verizon December 31, 2022. (More information available at FCC website.)
AARP article states: “Carriers may offer discounts and special promotions on replacement devices, including more modern versions of a flip phone.”
Here, in the USA, my flip phone should work tomorrow, the day when at AT&T, my carrier and service provider, older models start to be unable to do more than call 911 for emergency services, while mine should continue to work fully thereafter, because it is a 4G flip phone I got months ago from AT&T as a replacement for my old 3G one.
Flip phones are still OK to use if they are 4G-compatible. If one prefers this type of small phone that is easy to carry around, there is no need or mandate to get a big “smart” one.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV
DrBonzo: Thanks for bringing this to my attention: My new flip phone is a 4G Cingular Flip IV. I went too fast to write the comment after reading Susan’s where she mentions 5G. I have already corrected this in the comment
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV
***The posting time is wrong. I went into my profile, looked under edit but I can’t see a place to change the time zone. I’m in the Eastern Time Zone but my post implies that I’m in the Central Time Zone.
The whole world gets AskWoody time because the server is in Central Time Zone.
I replaced my old flip phone with a 4G model two years ago, and suspect that by now 4G phones probably outnumber 3G by a large margin. As far as 4G phone owners are concerned, the title of this thread is clickbait.
That, coupled with some unintended confusion down-thread, prompted me to waste five minutes or so this morning searching to find articles confirming that, yes, 4G phones will continue to work for the foreseeable future while the 5G network is rolled out, and probably for a long time afterward. At least I learned that, while 5G is faster, 4G is better at maintaining signal over long distances, which for someone out in the sticks matters a lot more.
So I can keep my trusty flip phone after all. The Internet…(sigh).
This is not permanent, it is so people don’t get caught without emergency sercices while the 3G phones are phased out. At some point, the 3G signal will stop and 911 will no longer work.
By then, you should have noticed you can’t make or receive normal calls and likely will have contacted the phone company. They will tell you to switch phones.
Martin
Older cars with Internet connectivity may lose it. The linked article lists affected models.
This seems to resemble what happened to navigation systems provided by the automobile manufacturers, which were soon bettered by nav systems that could be used on a smartphone. That bit of tech, for which the customer often paid extra, turned out to be the weak link in the automobile’s longevity. It’s happening again with internet-connected refrigerators, security systems, and other IOT.
Please excuse me for saying this, and I don’t mean to hurt anyone’s feelings, but is all this 5G Need For Speed really that necessary? Or is it primarily just so that people can watch Ultra High Def, or 4K television on their smartphones?!
If my cellphone company ever tells me that I need to go to 5G just to talk on my Flip Phone, they will lose me as a customer very fast!
At some point you can be assured that 4G will no longer exist and that 5G and 6G (which is being developed now) will coexist, and that if you need a cell phone you will need one with 5G capability. You may then not be able to find a cell carrier that supports anything less than 5G.
5G may at some point be fast enough with enough bandwidth to replace cable TV, DSL lines, FIOS, etc., etc. and it may be more reliable.
5G may also facilitate autonomous driving, which you may not like if you enjoy driving, but could be a godsend for visually pr physically handicapped people. There has been some work done on systems which are analogous to drones and their pilots; the drone is piloted by someone who could be on the other side of the world and a car or some other vehicle could be “driven” by a physically remote person. That would require fast and reliable transfer of information from the vehicle to the “driver”
DrBonzo,
The bigger question is: where is all the extra bandwidth for 5G, 6G … going to come from?
The radio part of the electromagnetic spectrum is finite and we are already faced with a choice of the dilemma kind: either you have this one you might like and even find useful, or else you have this other one that you already really need and cannot do without anymore:
Not just the military need GPS, by the way, but I do too, for personal, professional and need to exist acceptably well in the modern world reasons, as certainly you do, as do many who, knowingly or not, depend on GPS (and the European GALILEO, the Russian GLONASS, the Chinese Baidu, the Japanese QSZ, the Indian GAGAN and similar GNSS — the acronym for “Global (*) Navigation Satellite Systems” — that use for their signals the same band of the spectrum now claimed in part for 5G, directly, or with its distortion harmonics) for making possible for or benefiting from: Navigation, surveying, scientific, engineering, safety-of-life, safe operation of large electrical power grids, search and rescue work, large-scale, mechanized, precise agriculture, safe aircraft and in particular airliners flights in congested skies, etc., etc., etc. and for even every-day, purposes.
The world is tied hand and feet to these systems, in this day and age, and these are not something that is going to graciously bow out of the scene to leave room for 5G, 6G, etc.
The more I know of the world we have made and still are making full steam ahead, the more I am forced to agree with Lord Byron and his preference for his dog.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
(*) Not all are truly gobal: the Indian and the Japanese uses are limited to some large regions of the world that include their respective countries and use GPS as well as a complement. The proper name for these two is SBAS, or “Satellite Based Augmentation Systems”, because they locally “augment” GPS and might also the other true GNSS. They also cooperatively use the common region of the spectrum shared by the others, and soon also, in increasingly larger parts of the world and uncooperatively, by 5G.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV
And now this is what is happening:
Excerpt:
“Before it was approved, general aviation advocates joined with commercial airline groups in protest against Ligado’s 5G wireless plan, which they agreed would disrupt navigation within the National Airspace System. The Department of Defense also came out strongly against the proposal, saying it could cost billions of dollars to update GPS equipment in military aircraft with new systems that would not be vulnerable to interference.”
The military use of GNSS is less generally demanding in precision than for most of those applications that are very important, and even critical to advanced industrial economies listed in my previous comment. Aviation is most seriously affected in its use of the radio altimeters necessary for safe landings.
There are two different radio bands where G5 can be transmitted: here in the US the C-band, lower in frequency, but too close to that used by the very weak signals of the far away in space GNSS satellites; while elsewhere, particularly in some cities and always over reduced areas, the millimeter-wavelength band is being used that has the problem of its signals not getting through walls (or even one’s hand) and of propagating in straight lines, so they cannot cover an area beyond the horizon of the transmitting antenna, however high the towers with these antennas may be.
I have worked in the development and use of GPS/GNSS techniques, mostly for engineering and scientific applications, for over 30 years and am still at it. So I know of its current very multifaceted and widespread use and consequent importance to the modern world we all live in.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV
Just a reminder : our increasing use of wireless “phones” causes a huge pressure in reallocating radio spectrum for mobile wireless device use. Every new bit open to reallocation is fought over in auction, and the scarcity causes reallocated bands to be used next to essential radio bands or services essential today like airplane radio-altimeters.
The only sustainable solution to our growing number of mobile devices is to re-use the spectrum already allocated in faster and more efficient ways, meaning using less spectrum for the same data volume. This means de-commissioning less efficient systems and replacing them with better ones. So, rely on 4th generation GSM (4G) instead of the 3rd generation.
With the 5th generation, millimetre wave links will help manage high density use (short-range very fast) by making coverage very local. This will allow re-use of frequencies in more zones within an area, reducing spectrum pressure, with generally faster links (all at the expense of higher energy use, unfortunately).
Today, the best of both worlds is having a device using 4G until the performance of 5G is desired, and switching on-the-fly.
Martin, hamradio operator since 1992
Wireless isn’t magic, and far from simple! I prefer wired links whenever practical!
Same as driverless cars, the deployment of yet more bandwidth gobbling systems, like 5G, (specially in the C-band, as planned in the USA, outside of, but with distortion harmonics in the GPS-reserved band more powerful than the GPS signals themselves, as shown in numerous tests during the very long running dispute between the DoD, NASA, scientific organizations, GPS equipment makers, etc. — mainly with the hedge-fund owner of Light Squared/Ligado — as planned here in the USA) is inevitably going to result in some very big bad things happening. While driverless cars are already showing just what a bad idea (at least for this half century) they are, but only in dribs and drabs, I fully expect that 5G is going to show in a faster, larger and more impressive way just how bad an idea it is. Then those responsible for enabling this to happen will react eloquently: “Huh?”
If I were reckless enough to give any advice on this, it would be something like this: “If you don’t absolutely have to, then (at least in the USA) don’t spend money on 5G: It will be here today and, most likely, gone tomorrow, or day after tomorrow; in other words, not a very good bet.”
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV
Not yet, 5G has not been fully rolled up, yet, here, in the USA, where the problem is going to occur possibly in a major way. And airplanes are not likely to fall from the sky an time soon because someone uses a 5G phone while flying (I thought people here were capable of recognizing satire, but, oh well …)
But the 5G problem posed by the so far FCC-approved use of L-Band frequencies for 5G, is definitely one that could cause a major catastrophe, because it can interfere with the use of GPS by airplanes, and with much, much more — as I have explained further up and in another thread where the topic and the title are explicitly about 5G.
Meantime, the FAA has been working on new measures to make airports and their surroundings into 5G-safe(r) areas:
https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-statements-5g
But this is only about C-band 5G, which is a much lesser problem than L-Band 5G is going to be if continues to be allowed to be implemented nation-wide.
For C-Band 5G, the FAA approach is a rather nuanced one, because it is about it interfering with some, not all aircraft radio altimeters, while — according to the Agency’s statement — 62% of aircraft are not expected to be affected in this way by 5G (so 38% is chopped liver, right?). So it recommends, before flying, to “check with the airline”. But more testing intended to make sure, is ongoing:
“FAA 5G Statement issued on January 19, 2022
The FAA issued new approvals Wednesday that allow an estimated 62 percent of the U.S. commercial fleet to perform low-visibility landings at airports where wireless companies deployed 5G C-band.”
“Even with these approvals, flights at some airports may still be affected. The FAA also continues to work with manufacturers to understand how radar altimeter data is used in other flight control systems. Passengers should check with their airlines for latest flight schedules.”
In any case, all this is likely to be a major pain for no particular gain that the world needs and is crying out in anguish to have satisfied. As so much else is, but not for a lack of enthusiasts.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV
A lot of response to your flip phone post! Evidently there is a lot of interest in flip phones!
Verizon turned off their 3G network just over a year ago – I had to give up my slider phone, which I loved – it had a full keyboard with actual keys. In its place I got a really nice 4G flip phone – the Kyocera DuraXV Extreme. It worked great.
Move forward to a couple of months ago. We switched to T-Mobile, and I ended up getting a new 4G flip phone – the Sonim XP3 Plus. I like this phone even better than the Kyocera. They both have the same features (with very few exceptions); but the Sonim is better quality. Every thing works well with the Sonim, whereas there were a few glitches with the Kyocera.
In short, I think you will be good with any 4G flip phone; but 3G is definitely out.
VoLTE is/has been rolled out. I had to put down my Axon7 4G phone(straight talk on AT&T) because it was not recognized as VoLTE capable. My new Moto G Stylus 5G is very nice and cost me 1/4 of what my previous phone cast with more of everything so I do not feel so bad 
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