Why struggle or stress over Start?

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You know I’ve been reading in a few forums & such & I’m going to let myself say this…

And that is why is there such a proliferation of struggle & stress (& discussion, for that matter) over Start… you know, that screen @ the beginning w/ the tiles.

The 1 that has little on it & seldom offers a reason to visit it? The 1 a person ‘bumps through’ on the way to Desktop, on boot-up occasions? The 1 sometimes, maybe, used to type a search item? The 1 where tiles get removed cus there just isn’t any need for them. The 1 accessible @ the bottom-left corner? The 1 Win key gives? Oh & the 1 that can Win key back to Desktop, that 1? The Start that’s hardly ever used? only, even, viewed momentarily, that 1?

The time, text & trepidation spent over this, frankly, gets/is really hard to see.

Actually saw 1 or 2 ppl say, the OS could not be used, was unusable, inoperable because of Start…GEEeeesh!! Everything can be @ one’s fingertips & finding & navigating a quick, simple breeze.

I reflect on ppl & wonder, why struggling & stressing over Start?

Drew

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I spend 99 % of my time on Desktop. When I go to Metro Start it’s to do a search, and that’s about it. The search is nice. You just go to Metro and start typing. No need to place your mouse in a certain spot or anything. But that’s all I use Metro for. No fuss, No muss, no stress. Just use Desktop for everything.

I can see where folks that have touch screens might be stressing. Perhaps they have to get used to the Metro UI. Or perhaps folks using tablets. They might really be stressing cus they most likely really have to get used to Metro. But those of us with keyboards and a mouse, no reason to stress. Life is good. Just keep using the mouse and typing on the desktop.

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I spend 99 % of my time on Desktop. When I go to Metro Start it’s to do a search, and that’s about it. The search is nice. You just go to Metro and start typing. No need to place your mouse in a certain spot or anything. But that’s all I use Metro for. No fuss, No muss, no stress. Just use Desktop for everything.

I can see where folks that have touch screens might be stressing. Perhaps they have to get used to the Metro UI. Or perhaps folks using tablets. They might really be stressing cus they most likely really have to get used to Metro. But those of us with keyboards and a mouse, no reason to stress. Life is good. Just keep using the mouse and typing on the desktop.

Okay, what people are missing here is comfort. Windows has had a start button forever. Those of us who have been us using pc’s since the DOS days created our own “start” button, or some of us did, with a text menu and batch files to open programs. I use my desktop for virtually everything. I have shortcuts on it to virtually every program I use OR I have them on the quick launch portion of the task bar. I don’t like wading through half a zillion pieces of bloatware to find the one thing I am interested in using. So I will customize Win8, when I am forced to get it by this machine passing on, to my liking and assume that will be possible. Why Microsoft chooses to antagonize and annoy its billion users every couple years is beyond me. Change for the sake of change is inefficient. Change that increases productivity, makes things easier and better, well, I love that, it keeps life interesting. But changing things that work perfectly well just because you can is not consumer friendly. Early adopter or not, that is a not nice way to treat your customers. I think that is the gist of the complaints you are hearing all over. Perhaps the “technorati” here are a bit out of touch with the average home user and just a bit smug. That isn’t nice either. Not you, Ted, that comes from the tone of other posts I’ve read here today. Maybe this Secret is running its course as my subscription is due next month and with people condescending to other people, treating honest questions rudely, disrespecting users not as technically gifted, well there are friendlier places on the net to hang out.

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Okay, what people are missing here is comfort. Windows has had a start button forever. Those of us who have been us using pc’s since the DOS days created our own “start” button, or some of us did, with a text menu and batch files to open programs. I use my desktop for virtually everything. I have shortcuts on it to virtually every program I use OR I have them on the quick launch portion of the task bar. I don’t like wading through half a zillion pieces of bloatware to find the one thing I am interested in using. So I will customize Win8, when I am forced to get it by this machine passing on, to my liking and assume that will be possible. Why Microsoft chooses to antagonize and annoy its billion users every couple years is beyond me. Change for the sake of change is inefficient. Change that increases productivity, makes things easier and better, well, I love that, it keeps life interesting. But changing things that work perfectly well just because you can is not consumer friendly. Early adopter or not, that is a not nice way to treat your customers. I think that is the gist of the complaints you are hearing all over. Perhaps the “technorati” here are a bit out of touch with the average home user and just a bit smug. That isn’t nice either. Not you, Ted, that comes from the tone of other posts I’ve read here today. Maybe this Secret is running its course as my subscription is due next month and with people condescending to other people, treating honest questions rudely, disrespecting users not as technically gifted, well there are friendlier places on the net to hang out.

As a bit of background on this subject….I have been using PC’s since the days of MSDOS 2-6, Windows 3.11, skipped Win95, Win 98, skipped of few more iterations, Win XP, Vista, Win 7, and finally Win 8 Consumer Preview. Although I have used and liked every OS in this list, I’ve been one to use a lot of third party software to change the look and feel of each one. I have found that Microsoft eventually catches up with these 3rd-party vendors in one way or the other. Yes, for the average home user this does cause a bit of consternation learning the changes. I have preformed 2 dual boots and one update with Win 7 to Win 8. I got comfortable with the latter and did a Win 8 refresh to wipe out the remaining vestiges of Win 7. I now have been using the Consumer Preview exclusively on my home computer for 2 weeks. And I like it!!!

The Metro Start Screen (in normal mode) has essentially replaced the scattering of programs most people have on their desktop (not as pretty, but that will probably change). Plus now you can move and group these icons any way you want (a la Stardock’s Fences). Hotspots have been around on 3rd-party software for perhaps 5-10 years. The All Programs version of the Start Screen (right-click, All Apps) is very similar to an expanded Start Menu (a la Stardock’s Start 8, Vistart, VistaStart, and StartMenu7 and X on the desktop). By the way, as has been mentioned in other posts, please use the right-click (assuming mouse/keyboard use) and nice context menus come alive. I could go on and on…..

As an interesting side note…has anybody noticed that the Metro Start Screen (though not as pretty) acts just like any Android tablet and to a certain extent the IPad? Full screen apps and no real multitasking. One of those things that make one go….Hmmmm!!!!

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Most people do NOT like change. IMO, the majority of those who have installed the CP are the “technorati”, the “first adopters”, the “power users”, or the IT types in larger companies who need to see the challenges ahead. The “technorati” that is the technical press and those that are technical VIPs (at least in their own minds) like controversy if for no other reason than to prove how much smarter and more “with it” they are. The remainder of these groups are not going to like to change the years of habit built up with the start menu.

If you carefully read the opinion pieces and so called reviews of Windows 8 you can tell that there are quite a few that were written with either very little or no usage of the product.

Joe

--Joe

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Hello, 517. Right on. I will never pretend to be a qualified IT, I only care for ± 10 users and their machines. I got on to W-8 as a challenge and not wanting to be left behind, there is a learning curve, indeed. As Ted said, I only use Metro 1% of the time, if not less. I like -8 and will get used to it, it is quite a bit quicker on the screen than -7, on the same machine that is, the P4 is notable in this respect. I am out to get a new DVD-RW today, the old one picked this change to -8 to die. We are indeed creatures of habit.

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I’m a desktop user and don’t have any handheld devices. The Metro is useless to me. I don’t find it convenient to use as it fills with installed software. I installed Media Player classic and codec pack and that alone added 23 items to Metro. I find start menu 7 more convenient for occasionally used stuff. It’s all arranged in alphabetical order and you don’t have to leave the desktop. I use icons tool bars and a folder of frequently used programs icons. A lot of the apps are buggy or don’t work. MS did a poor job of preparing people for the radical change Metro caused. It’s bad when an experienced Windows user has to do a web search to find out how to shutdown or access the hidden login screen.
Joe

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@Joe S: Windows 8 Consumer Preview is a work in progress. Specifically, it is a Beta product; some things don’t work as intended, or at all. By using it and providing feedback to Microsoft, we can contribute to the improvement in the OS.

I expect that there will be some changes to the way the Metro Start interface operates between now and any Release Candidate let alone Release to Manufacturing.

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Tinto
I know it’s a beta. Given the radical change from the traditional desktop MS should have made sure the apps worked and were closer to finished. They should have done more to prepare the user for the new interface. Like maybe a little 2-3 min video automatically running as soon as the install finished showing the hidden login screen and how to shutdown and a few basics. It looks like MS ignored feedback from developer release since they changed registry and other things to eliminate bypassing Metro. I think Windows 8 is stable and easier on resources than Windows 7.
Joe

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Tinto
I know it’s a beta. Given the radical change from the traditional desktop MS should have made sure the apps worked and were closer to finished. They should have done more to prepare the user for the new interface. Like maybe a little 2-3 min video automatically running as soon as the install finished showing the hidden login screen and how to shutdown and a few basics.

I agree.

Myself and others in this forum have noted that an introductory video may be of benefit, but if that happens, it will only come at a much later stage. The current version is a preview, not the finished article and we are (whether we like it or not) unpaid beta testers – guinea pigs, not end users. We are expected to find faults and problems.

That route does have risks however.

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I, already, have asked the W8 Build Team to put something along these lines in the GA. Whether a pop-up vid & or a printed sheet of Tips & How Tos. Others may have said the same thing to them. We’ll see when October comes. The CP is only Beta1… there will be some significant changes in the RC, Beta2. Gotta keep remembering, this forthcoming OS which, we are playing w/ in advance, is not the final or finished product.

The feeling that ppl will need/appreciate ‘instructions’ is widespread… Although, it is all in HELP & Support. But, as we know, ppl just go OMG & don’t think to look in HELP.

Drew

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I’m a believer in getting used to an operating system ‘as is’ without trying to make it like the previous one. So I’d agree about the Start Button. If planning to go to Windows 8 when released, just try and go with the changes. I found it wasn’t long before feeling comfortable with Metro and the way it operates.

I won’t be upgrading to Windows 8 until ‘new computer’ time arrives (won’t be for a year or two yet) but if the consumer preview is more or less the way the final release is going to be, then I’m sure I’ll be OK without trying to bring back any Windows 7 features. Might not actually need Metro on a Desktop computer but I’ll be happy enough to open programs and services using it if that’s the way provided.

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Maybe many will have or take the same, peaceful, mature, intelligent attitude. Admittedly, I had to take some time to sort Windows8 out, so what? Seems like a no-brainer, cus, gosh, it’s different. But, if an old man w/ a mouse & keyboard can do it in jig time. And, yes, that’s w/ injecting nothing from the past just, pure, Windows8.

But, you know what… my windows7 is just Win7, same w/ my Vista, same w/ my XP, same w/ my Win98 & same w/ my Win8; it’s just great, it’s just 8

Drew[/B]

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I also initially “fought” the new Win8 Metro system. Then I found that I could click on the desktop “icon” on the interface and get to more familiar territory. Since I missed the Start button I downloaded a couple of the “fixes” and discovered they were more trouble than navigating and adjusting the Metro interface. So … I’m in the camp that has become comfortable with the new features and likes them. BTW … I have Win 8 installed as a dual boot option on a win7 Pro Dell 64bit Vostro with plenty of RAM. Dick Arlington

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Yes, Dick, I, too, tried those ‘like 7’ start things…dumped it rather quickly after finding it an unnecessary, redundant, distracting nuisance. & yep, after a bit to adjust to it, 8 does, fairly rapidly, become likable.

Drew

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OR the fuss is hard to see when one can power up a Windows8 tower (cold boot), turn around 3 times & there’s the Desktop looking @ you…. no P/W, no Start & you never laid a hand on it

Drew

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I neglected to mention the speedy startups and shutdowns — significantly better than 7. The one item I can’t seem to find is the detailed desktop configuration utility where one can change the fonts and sizes for everything independently. In other words, I like the 125% display setting fonts, but the icons are too big and there’s too much space between them. I know … picky, picky, picky! Dick Arlington

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If, I’m on the right track as to what you’re saying…

Rt Clk somewhere on the desktop > View & select icon size.

Can chose View in Windows Explorer windows, too

I trust this is what you seek.

Drew

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Yep … that almost did it! Not perfect, but now I have small icons and readable fonts. Thanks … Dick Arlington

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Change gets old sometimes….the jump from Win 3.1 to Win 95 took awhile. Eventually, it becomes second nature. It just seems that sometimes all the software engineers are trying to reinvent the wheel…which is fine, but the wheel should still be round. From an IT support viewpoint, it can be a nightmare trying to re-educate end users who remember steps, not the process.

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Change gets old sometimes….the jump from Win 3.1 to Win 95 took awhile. Eventually, it becomes second nature. It just seems that sometimes all the software engineers are trying to reinvent the wheel…which is fine, but the wheel should still be round. From an IT support viewpoint, it can be a nightmare trying to re-educate end users who remember steps, not the process.

I heartily agree it also becomes an annoyance remembering which OS you are on at the time. I found XP to Vista was annoying finding the renamed and moved items. I pity those lowend users going from XP to Windows 8. It will definitely take a lot of time retraining them and customizing desktops by the IT people to get things going.
Joe

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You’re welcome, Dick.

Drew

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I have Windows 8 developer preview and consumer preview downloaded but I have read so much bad stuff about it that I haven’t installed it on anything yet. I see so many make comments about how they are happy with the way Windows 7 does something and don’t like the change. Well I have to go back farther than that. I was VERY unhappy with Windows 7 until Classic Shell came along. I don’t think I will adopt Windows 8 until Classic Shell is developed for it. I don’t need a telephone interface on my computer.

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It’s too bad so many ppl are missing the point or it’s more like not seeing the forest for the trees. Personally, I feel ppl should do themselves a favor & STOP focusing on Start & being blinded by it!!  But, there’s some major goodies behind the face.

Be accurately & fully informed & aware before making judgements based on hearsay, poor, meager or tilted sources.

Ppl need to, ALSO, make sure they know the many ‘positives’ of Windows8.

Drew

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I think it will be fine, as long as I can install a classic UI and a file explorer that actually shows me what’s on the disk. I’ll be resisting if I have to teach my parents another type of UI, especially if it brings THEM zero benefits. So what would be the benefit to someone who has zero interest in typing or navigating with a touch screen?

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Ppl need to, ALSO, make sure they know the many ‘positives’ of Windows8.

Other than the fact that its a bit snappier, I fail to see any real positives in Windows 8 as compared to Windows 7. In fact, the fact that I hit the hotspots in the four corners of the screen by accident once in a while makes the experience more frustrating at times. I wish I could find a way to disable them.

Jerry

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Having got my W8 PC looking similar to my W8 PC, I am becoming less convinced that the upgrade is necessary.

It does seem to use less resources and is a bit faster to load – but can I get real work done any quicker? Not sure yet – the jury is still out.

Alan

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Hear hear gene, spot on!

My one problem with W8-CPR, is actually NOT “Why Metro?”, as it is simply an added interface.
Yet most replies on here blare out “If you can’t understand or get used to Metro immediately like “I” did, then SUFFER you dumb TechnoPhobe”!

Yet the one simple question I have is “Why REMOVE the Start menu?” – especially as the Desktop and Taskbar are still there?
Which seemed to elicit the same response as above, completely avoiding the question, while bigging up the TechnoMassive SelfEgo.

I’m still awaiting a reasoned response to that one.

Pointless really.

And this is supposed to be a ‘Discussion’ Forum???

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Agreed again.

I do everything from the desktop. The “Start” button – or some othe way of accessing the hundreds of programs I have installed – is essential. Yes, I have shortcuts for the most used, but I still would like easy access to the rest of my apps.

So, MS (or a spokesman), tell me what advantage you have given me by removing it?

Alan

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I see a very small improvement in speed and it does seem to handle ram usage better. It is very stable overall. I don’t see a compelling reason to run out and buy it. I’ll probably wait until I buy a new computer. The difference between Vista which came on this PC and Windows 7 was quite noticeable so I did upgrade quickly. I have my desktop customized and find Metro useless I’ve unpinned every thing except desktop and explorer. Most of the apps I tried looked bad if they worked. The main purpose of Metro is to sell apps. I also wonder if it’s another way for MS to sniff around to see if Windows is genuine.
Joe

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Taken from a previous message but worth repeating as I am in agreement with some of the comments above:

Right now, IMHO, performance of Win8 will be the deciding factor for those Win7 users who dislike the Metro GUI. The other factor of course is selling price. I very much like the performance of Win8 and hope it improves when finally released. Microsoft may well have a hard time convincing Win7 (desktop) users to purchase Win8 if the selling price is deemed too steep. Such users will ask themselves:
Why upgrade if I have to customize the desktop when I am perfectly content with my Win7 setup?

Rich

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Gene, I will apologize for anyone at the Lounge that seems a bit smug. I do not believe that is the general intent of the posters here.

As I have stated, I am reserving judgment on whether I will purchase Win 8 when it is released. It will depend on the pricing structure. I am perfectly happy with Win 7. Win 8 is a bit snappier, and does seem to interact with my wife’s Win 7 HP better than my Win 7 Ultimate does (the other partition in my dual boot). There are a couple of minor glitches which I suspect will be ironed out as later releases are available. The rumor is that RC will be out late spring or early summer.

I have also related that I do not miss the Win 7 Start Menu. I actually did not use the Start Menu that often. I have my Win 7, and now my Win 8 customized so that I use Toolbars on my Taskbar to quickly find the apps I use the most. Probably 80 to 90 % of the apps I use are found on those toolbars, and if I find an app I beging to use more, it is extremely easy to simply add a shortcut to the toolbar to that app. This is more efficient than drilling down to that app on the Win 7 Start Menu.

Alan, This threadshows a way to pin a shortcut to All Apps to your Desktop or Taskbar. I open the shortcut, set the view as I wish it to be, then minimize it to the taskbar. Perhaps this would be an assistance to you as well.

I realize we are discussing a lot of customizing here, but I also did a lot of customizing with Win 7. So again, it really depends on cost for me. Go ahead and make some of the changes outlined in these threads and see if you can also make Win 8 CP work the way you want it to work.

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Wish I knew ppl’s names but, anyway…

To ‘NST’ – 1st Rt Clk on Desktop > New > Shortcut, put this %windir%explorer.exe shell:::{4234d49b-0245-4df3-b780-3893943456e1} in Location & give it a name (Applications) & change the resulting icon, if you like. This will put ALL Applications, not just what tiles you have showing on Start, @ your fingertips… you can have it on the Desktop, on Quick Launch or on the Taskbar. Can look like this…

Regardless, there is no need whatsoever to disable Start… it gets in the way of nothing, impedes nothing. it, honestly, doesn’t warrant all the attention, discussion, moaning & complaining it’s getting. I just keep reminding myself it’s merely human nature to 1 grump @ new stuff from Microsoft & 2 to resist change. Makes the life of an IT Pro a wee bit more challenging but, goes w/ the territory, I reckon.

2ndly, “must teach a totally new & different UI”… yes & no, I’ll come back to that 1. “for an OS w/ ZERO other benefits”… let’s just change the ZERO to Countless, to save me listing them all @ this juncture. Suffice to say the good & better things of Windows8 is a very long list.
As for a new & different UI…admittedly, it is a bit, BUT… the Desktop is still the familiar, Start does not need to be intimidating nor does it need to get used or visited much or be the focal point of things… Desktop is & can be that. As for dealing w/ the aspects that are a bit new & different & learning to ‘get around’, this will help you, a lot…
http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//145067-Nav-Tips-Keyboard-Shortcuts-amp-More-for-Win8

To ‘TM’, you’re right, there is, indeed & in fact, no need to remove Start. Sad ppl are being made to think there is.

To Everyone,

Not sure I need to say this but, here goes, anyway…

In my own defence, it has never been my intent but, to help ppl put or keep Start (in W8) in perspective. #1, W8 does not require Touch! 2, it need not be intimidating, 3, there still is a traditional Desktop & 4, that the hype over certain parts of Windows8 (& the supposed lack of other things) is unfortunately scaring folks. Yes, one has to learn Windows8 & personalize it; once that’s done, it’s wonderful to use. Is it tough to find out how to use or customise it? Not really. It’s all in HELP or it is here http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//145067-Nav-Tips-Keyboard-Shortcuts-amp-More-for-Win8

For myself & a few others, it didn’t freak us out cus we knew months ago what was coming. For most folks it may seem a bit ‘strange’, @ 1st, cus they are not accustom to it. Others will find it super-cool, innovative & exciting. Point is, this forthcoming OS is what it is & yes, we have to accept it as is & use it, as is, even if that necessitates some adapting. Much as humans hate change, we are supposed to be adaptable creatures, too.

I simply don’t want ppl to have a bad, nervous, pre-judged, attitude or be misguided about Start or be swayed by the idea that they are stuck w/out the old Windows Orb & old start menu. Trust me, it still works just fine, no loss of access or functionality, nor has it been rendered insurmountably difficult. It’s actually, easy, fast, neat & in a way, fun.

As an IT Pro, my goal is that ppl don’t have all this stuff of Start, etc., mask all the terrific abilities & technological gains one can reap w/ Windows8.

Be open-minded & let pl like me help, explain, show, guide & answer. Personally, my aim is to assist folks, not bash them, be abrupt or shun (sp?) them. You can never condemn ppl for ignorance but, rather, enhance their understanding w/ kind enlightenment.

My company has 2 motos… “Working with People, Not Just Equipment” and “Through Education Comes Empowerment”

(and, no, that’s not a plug, btw)

Cheers,
Drew

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Hmmm, just noticed… I see Ted & I are on the same wavelength, again

Drew

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Ted/Drew, thanks for the link. I thought about this last night but the issue is that the Window stays open once clicked. With a “real” start menu, once you select your app, the apps list goes away again. Also, the real start menu has everything organised into sub-folders, which I like.

I will give this a try (the shortcut is an easier way than the method I was thinking about), but it’s still (to me) a retrograde step.

thanks
edit – got it up and running. Not too bad.
Alan

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Pinned to the task bar. When it starts up, it always comes up as “tiles”. Is there a way to get it to come up as “Small Icons” and sorted by name?Alan

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You can change the view by Right Click and select view, small icons, etc. You can also arrange alphabetically. Unfortunately I have not found a way to close it, and have it reopen with these customizations remaining, so I have to change the view again. That’s why I say open it and minimize it to the taskbar.

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Yes, that’s the way I, too, have found to make it work… I keep it’s icon on Quick Launch… open it, change the view, sort by name & then, minimize (to the Taskbar). Will stay ’til there’s a reason to reboot… then, just takes 2 secs to redo it. Plus, if you Rt Clk it @ the Taskbar, the Jump List (still) gives other locations, w/out losing the Applications ‘folder’.

Cheers,
Drew

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Ok- Understand. Sounds reasonable to me (for now).

Alan

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Cool

Drew

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If anyone can figure a way to actually close the folder and still maintain the customized view, now that would be cool, and more useful.

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Agree, wholeheartedly, Ted. I know I sure tried. Where I ended is fine minimised. Then, I only have to ‘reset’ it, if & when, it’s just booted. Ideally, I wished to have the desired view & sort in the original icon (my wee basket on Quick Launch)… but, that insists on being those big fat icons… I mean you can do view sort & now the minimise puts that as a folder on the Taskbar but, the basket on QL is still those huge icons… otherwise (as I expected) could just use the basket & pass on the whole ritual of modifying & minimizing as an additional icon, folder, wherever, you know what I mean. But, something in the script of the original shortcut code, just doesn’t let it get used alone, except w/ an unappealing display, grrrr. Certainly, it can be used alone but, means using it w/ ITS display, as is.

Drew

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Here’s a Classic Shell skin: http://www.askvg.com/download-classic-shell-skin-to-get-windows-7-look-like-start-menu-and-start-button-in-windows-8/ to make it look like the Windows 7 Start Menu.

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