Why Microsoft doesn’t need Windows anymore

Topic

New Reply

Spot-on analysis from Eric Knorr. You really need to read this. I’ve always been amazed at Microsoft’s stamina… Nobody writes new applications for W
[See the full post at: Why Microsoft doesn’t need Windows anymore]

Reply | Quote

Replies

This seems like rationalization for an all-too-obvious failure to come up with ways to extend and renew the Windows franchise.

Reply | Quote

The problem with switching the OS away from Windows is firstly that it requires a degree of effort and knowledge that limits it to the hardcore amateur or the committed professional, and secondly that it is simply not a viable proposition for the very many PC users who are gamers.

Besides which, there is surely the argument that other operating systems only appear safer than Windows because the criminals target their malware on the operating system that is used by 90+% of users. If everyone switched to another operating system we can guess which one the criminals would then be targeting. Then that system would need monthly updates for its developers to stay only one step behind the criminals as is the case currently with Windows.

Reply | Quote

If I had to get a back up laptop-I am thinking Chromebook. Course the tricky part is learning to type on a different keyboard style and how the wireless mouse works along with how it will print. But at least it doesn’t need a monthly update with tons of updates, just one update and many apps to protect a computer from harm.

I’m thinking of getting one in the future sometime.

Reply | Quote

If that’s so then why didn’t they just stay with Windows 7? Less work for them. Why did they put the time and effort into making Win 8, Win 8.1, and now the many versions of Win 10? It seems to me that they’re trying to drive most people away from Windows – and succeeding!

Being 20 something in the 70's was far more fun than being 70 something in the insane 20's

Reply | Quote

“Nobody writes new applications for Windows anymore.”

Wholeheartedly disagree with this statement.
I’d bet that more people make apps for Windows than those who make apps for Linux or Apple. Including, yes, NEW applications.

Saying “Microsoft doesn’t need Windows anymore” is like saying “Nintendo doesn’t need handheld consoles anymore”. Neither is true.

I think they’re trying to get away from Windows, but their other divisions are not doing as well as they probably wish. People don’t update their Office software because they don’t need the latest and greatest, and Office365 is still missing functionality available with a free Google Docs account. Xbox is behind Playstation. Surface is hot but that still requires an OS that they’ll be supporting another 9 years at least.

I get where the article is going and what it’s alluding to, but I don’t think it’s possible. As much as I’d love to put Ubuntu on every workstation in our company and switch to LDAP, what we have now works. (Largely Win7 and Server 2008R2, with a few scattered Win10 machines and some newer WinServers.)

MS can say they’re done with the OS market, and I get that – they’re not making money continually with their OS. But, if they quit making OS’s, they’re not making future money either. Eventually, the well will run dry, and at some point, people won’t be buying Surfaces at this clip anymore, and they won’t be buying Xboxes either. (I imagine Scorpio will sell to hardcore gamers, same as Ps4 Pro, but likely will underwhelm on sales figures.) Without the OS revenue, they’d have nothing.

Reply | Quote

Interesting. My son’s facing this question right now. Can you name one significant new Windows app – Win32 or UWP? All the apps I know about are on life support.

Reply | Quote

Big downside to anything from Google is the snooping. If you can put up with that and with the lack of Windows-only applications (most people can), Chromebook’s a good choice and I bet the new Andromeda machines (late this year?) will be even better.

You can use a good keyboard and mouse with a Chromebook. I use a daskeyboard mechanical keyboard and Logitech Performance MX mouse with mine. All you need is one USB port.

If the Chromebook is powerful enough (some are), you can even drive a full-size monitor from one. I’m thinking about testing that when the dust dies down from the current Windows update flare-up.

Reply | Quote

Not sure if that applies to ChromeOS. Most people I know, who are accustomed to using a browser, adapt to Chromebooks quickly. And malware on Chromebooks is very hard to imagine.

Reply | Quote

Games are an easy mention, since most of those are DirectX (and therefore Windows only). Granted, a lot of games have been ported to Linux and OpenGL, but out of my 1K+ Steam games, less than 1/3 have.

My (anecdotal, unfortunately) evidence is that any time I need an app, I always find one for Windows. Many of them are available for Linux, but not all. When I was in the hoped process of switching from Windows to Ubuntu, I ended up finding out that many apps I rely on are not available for Linux though in some cases, there are suitable replacements. Apps in that list include Greenshot (or ShareX), Irfanview, UltraVNC, Everything. There is also no Google Drive sync app for Linux either.

To be fair, I can’t really name a brand new app that is in Windows, but I would be willing to bet that due to its market share, Windows apps get made and developed more than OS X (or Linux). That’s why I disagree with the statement in the article.

Reply | Quote

Fair enough.

I hear you about games…

It’s true that there are legacy Windows programs that are quite useful. Many people will be stuck on Windows for quite some time because they need to run them. (Isn’t Quickbooks Windows-only?) But very few new apps are being built Win32-only, and even fewer are UWP.

Reply | Quote

A part of my process was ditching Adobe and Office. Obviously Office is easy, because there’s LibreOffice (which is good enough for my needs).

Adobe was more tricky, but I’ve been Adobe-less for about a year now, and have had no downtime (other than the initial learning phase which took a few days). Switched from Creative Suite (specifically Illustrator/Photoshop/InDesign) to an Inkscape/GIMP/Scribus combo. Have been pleasantly surprised to see features in all 3 apps that are either not in Adobe yet, or, better implemented than Adobe.

Quickbooks, yes, I believe that’s Win-only. I was hesitant to go from Quicken > MS Money Sunset > something else, but have been real happy with HomeBank after finding GnuCash overly-complicated.

(All the above are available for Linux, but I’m still running them on Win7 since I never fully switched.)

UWP, yeah, blech. A part of me wants Gears of War 4, but I’m not willing to concede the admin ownership to Win10 to get it. (If it eventually comes to Steam/Win7 like Quantum Break, I’ll get it there, but otherwise, I can do without.) It’s a shame that people who want to be more in control of their machines have to resort to running an unlicensed Enterprise eval of 10 LTSB to get a stripped down admin-friendly Win10 like we all deserved with Pro.

Reply | Quote

“Nobody writes new applications for Windows anymore.”

What you are missing is a bunch of the “niche” applications that are unique to small businesses and that don’t have a big public presence. They are being written by local, small-time IT guys. Look at your dentist’s PC, or your veterinarian’s, or local medical businessman’s. Because of costs and small distributions, these are not rewritten frequently. That is why there was such a hard move away from XP and there will be a similar clinging to Win7. I was at Duke Medical a couple of years ago and I think I remember the PCs still on XP. You don’t see Linux in these environments. I suspect the larger institutions will migrate to VMs and Azure, but the little guys can’t afford that. These are the people who will be hurt by MS’s crappy updates and lack of concern for their customers.

Reply | Quote

“And malware on Chromebooks is very hard to imagine.”

Even with Android apps?

How to install Android apps on your supported Chromebook
http://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-to-install-android-apps-on-your-supported-chromebook/

Reply | Quote

Out of curiosity, what new big apps are there for other non-M$ OS?

Reply | Quote

I would submit that there are tons of iOS and Android apps that are “big” – and lots that are web-specific. Office, for example. Facebook. YouTube. Messengers of various streaks. Snapchat/Instagram. Pinterest. Google Apps and Photos and Maps. Gmail. Twitter. Uber. Netflix. Pandora.

Reply | Quote

Yep, that’s a possible infection vector – but so far it hasn’t been rolled out to the world.

I wonder what Andromeda will do about security vulns in Android?

Reply | Quote

Good point. But I only see small updates to those apps, not any new, big ones.

Easy reference point: POS and retail accounting. Used to be owned by smaller software firms, sometimes plugging into bigger accounting programs. Increasingly, it’s all on the web – and the POS terminals are turning into iPads.

Reply | Quote

“malware on Chromebooks is very hard to imagine.”

As it was on Windows only a few years ago…

Reply | Quote

Point well taken – and if there’s a rush to Andromeda, the bad guys will be sniffing that way, too

Reply | Quote

“I only see small updates to those apps, not any new, big ones.”

I’m in financial services and our main vendor just spent millions re-writing their apps as a .NET rich client that interfaces either to their cloud back-end or points to on-premise backend. It was a ground up re-write. They chose to stick with native windows apps over web browser for speed and reliability – something that web browsers aren’t known for.

I think the lack of “new, big” software is a consequence of windows incredible market maturity, not lack of interest. I would argue that there never were many “big” consumer apps besides things like Photoshop and Office. Just a handful.

Most Windows software has always been small consumer apps or large line of business apps that the rest of us never see, yet are critical to the industries or groups that use them.

Reply | Quote

Wow. I sure hope their big bet pays off!

Reply | Quote

I’d suggest that most of those are more socially-oriented than business-oriented, although I accept some of them have a degree of use for businesses. Good luck, however, to any corporate IT director trying to persuade his fellow directors to switch a system serving 500 desktop/laptop computers from Windows, and good luck to him in also trying to commission any future custom-built program/app essential to the particular daily running requirements of his company’s business that isn’t based on Windows – not least if it has to interface with suppliers, customers and other related parties.

There’s no doubt in my mind that MS would have been better off identifying Windows 7 as the base point of the operating system for the next 20 years of desktop and laptop home/business usage, while creating a parallel tile-based system for smaller hand-held devices.

In any event, much of the apparent decision-making by MS would have made more commercial sense if they were seeking to attract new business from their competitors, but what they’re actually doing is trying to get people to upgrade from one of their products to another of their products, and on that basis alone their recent tactics make no sense whatsoever.

Reply | Quote

Apple has the right approach. The end-user is not an administrator of the non-jailbroken iOS and as such avoids support problems with users who should have never been system administrators in the first place.
Bill Gates’ trick to make the limited server OS available to everyone at home made him a fortune and now when the industry finally matures and takes the back-end computing back to where it belongs, he is out of it.

Reply | Quote

+1

Reply | Quote

Also, away from the home use of a couple of desktop PCs for gaming and home admin, which is the basis of most of my comments here, now that I’m retired I am also involved (well away from my former career but not in relation to IT you’ll be relieved to note) in voluntary work in the development of healthcare strategy in the UK. A critical part of the ongoing changes in healthcare in these challenging times is the bringing together of different healthcare providers so that they can provide a multi-team approach to an individual patient’s needs (family doctor, local hospital, mental health specialist, district nurse etc all coordinating the patient’s long-term requirements). This can’t be done unless everyone involved has a mutually compatible IT setup so as to enable the full exchange of information (with the patient’s consent of course), and that is very clearly going to be Windows-based both now and for the foreseeable future.

Reply | Quote

Yeah, we just upgraded to a new POS system about 2 years ago, and it’s running on HP boxes running Win7 Embedded POS Ready. I believe our contract on those goes another 4 years and then I imagine at that point the next ones will probably be with the same software company (Epicor), which may be on Win8 Embedded POS Ready by that time.

Our dev team is working on coding something in Access for outside sales to run on Surfaces (instead of laptops like we currently use), but that’s still in the beginning stages.

Reply | Quote

“There’s no doubt in my mind that MS would have been better off identifying Windows 7 as the base point of the operating system for the next 20 years of desktop and laptop home/business usage, while creating a parallel tile-based system for smaller hand-held devices.”

Agreed!

Dreaming a bit, is there an opportunity for an upstart company to take on the task of keeping Win7 secure, including all the predictable slings and arrows from Microsoft, or does M$ have such a lock on it that no one else can reverse-engineer Win7 at least to a point where they could do a passable job of keeping it viable?

Reply | Quote

I used one such program. The company that supplied it to our railroad provides automated inspection of the rails in railroad track–inspection which through ultrasonic and other technology detects flaws not visible to the eye. Such a function is of course critical to safety and required by regulation.

The program was written for them and provided to their railroad customers to use to analyze the voluminous data that resulted from such inspections. It was a Windows program, about two steps removed from DOS as I recall, but boy was it useful!

Reply | Quote

An open system is unmanageable from a security point of view, there are too many variable involved.
iOS which is not an open system is manageable. This is the core issue.
Linux has the same issues with Windows, but because of limited functionality compared with Windows seems to be less exposed.

Reply | Quote

Good point.

Reply | Quote

>What you are missing is a bunch of the “niche” applications that are unique to small businesses and that don’t have a big public presence.

Yep, this.
When you go into “content creation” tasks, it’s either Windows only or Windows+Mac. The new/modern OSs are nowhere to be seen, although you’ll get an iOS/Android app here and there.

But mouse+keyboard are here to stay, because they’re simply better than touchscreens for many tasks, and Windows will probably stay the main player for this (desktop) platform.
At some point I thought Android might take over, but Google is just not serious enough about it, they don’t seem as committed to long term support, and compatibility with existing software/hardware is a huge advantage for Windows as well.

Windows will continue to lose market share, certainly what it has now is a bit too much (based on most computing needs), but it will probably still be a major thing 20 years from now.

Reply | Quote

+1 🙂

Reply | Quote

Spot on — Apple never thought it wise to cross OS X and iOS. Did not ever make any sense and it certainly does not make good sense or business now. Azure/cloud at MS reminds me of the old saying, “to a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail”. I predict MS will make as much money in the Cloud as AWS allows.

Reply | Quote

That work sounds really interesting, Seff.

The healthcare system in the UK is so complex, important, financially-strapped, in flux.

Reply | Quote

You have a railroad? That sounds interesting (sincerely)! Is it for passengers or freight?

—
The Brits, with their “wrong type of leaves on the line” and “wrong type of snow” need that ultrasonic inspection system of which you speak. 😉

Though I suppose what their rail system(s) need on so many levels is to get some more fundamental things right.

e.g.,

Wrong sort of dew
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1355140/London-train-delays-caused-dew-rail-passengers-endure-misery.html

Wrong kind of sun
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3395521/The-wrong-kind-sun-train-operator-blames-SUNSHINE-rush-hour-rail-delays.html

Wrong type of snow (“fluffy”)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1241318/BREAKING-NEWS-Hundreds-stranded-Eurostar-train-breaks-Channel-Tunnel-again.html

Wrong type of soil
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2063528/Wrong-type-soil-Latest-barmy-excuse-delayed-trains.html

Wrong kind of weeds
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1282811/First-leaves-line–DANDELIONS-halting-cross-country-trains.html

Wrong kind of autumn
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3323070/Now-s-blame-railway-chaos-wrong-kind-AUTUMN-Greater-Anglia-blames-mild-weather-sudden-leaf-fall-crippled-services.html

Unexpected leaves
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1330887/Train-slides-speed-TWO-MILES-leaves-line.html

(I have great affection for their rail system)

Reply | Quote

Outside of games, I think the major application categories are pretty much covered with several options that have been available for some time for all OSes. Other than a specific legacy application that is OS specific most users could use any OS and its ecosystem with minimal problems. The major problem with switching is the availability of alternatives and inertia.

Reply | Quote

… and I think, in the end, inertia will carry Windows for decades.

Reply | Quote

I worked for a freight railroad in the US.

US railroads suffer from autumn leaves on the rail too (the decaying matter turns to a kind of greasy mess when it is crushed under a steel wheel, causing locomotives to slip), but apparently they suffer in comparative silence.

Reply | Quote

Yes, and that is why I chose IOS as our smartphone over Android back in the days. I believed Apple had the solution that was needed for quite secure unmanaged devices. I didn’t have time and money to play with enterprise tools to manage those devices, and our needs were nothing out of the ordinary, probably like a lot of small to medium businesses who don’t have a big IT team inside. You can make a point about enterprise data leaking, but that is an issue so complex anyway for SMBs that it goes beyond the smartphone.

I agree with you an open system is problematic to secure, but I lock down everyone with Windows and they only use a small set of approved programs, without any domain or Windows server. I had good success with that. Our computers have always been fast and malware-free. I even have some 15+ years old PCs still running fast with no Internet access, because users can’t bloat them.

The problem now is having to constantly monitor updates and redo settings manually with each Windows 10 iteration. MS want the control back, out of the IT guys for SMBs. Remember when they sent that message like “Your IT person is preventing you from benefiting from the latest features of Windows, go ask him” when you prevented the Win 10 update? When they say they will install Candy Crush to your dentist office x-ray machine controlling PC, whether you like it or not, they decide what to do and they think they will be better than SMBs to manage the PC.

I think their idea is to move everyone to universal apps only and keep the rest for power users only. It makes a bit of sense because then users can install what they want without too much concern for security (again, we are talking SMBs with not too much technical preoccupation for data leaks). Then, for MS, it gets easier to ensure compatibility with apps over time, less malware, just like Apple’s walled garden, because really, a lot of people don’t need that much different weird apps.

MS could have just done this vision a bit differently. They could have given choice to IT people. You could either run the stripped down, low-cost to maintain for you and Microsoft OS that is open but customizable to your liking and with LTS and minimal bloatware, or activate only the app store and a few desktop apps (for now) then lock everything else for some devices or peoples. If they could only make it easy for SMBs to “lock everything but”, it would be so easier to manage. And really, a better separation between OS and the apps is not a bad thing because it creates less upgrade mess.

I think we need to realize that computers are a mature product and there won’t probably have any revolution anytime soon that would make an upgrade so important every few years. They need to simplify the OS to keep it secure and get out of the way of doing business. Sounds like something the Linux folks should do if they weren’t so scattered.
One simple OS, long time support, easy to maintain and patch, not messing around with UIs and settings all the time, app compatibility. Windows is too complex behind for being the secure OS SMBs and home folks really need. The UI is great. But what’s behind is scary complex.

Still, you need an approved app store if you want more security for most people. Really, you should always think twice before using an app found on the web. It is not easy to know if it is safe or not and don’t get me started with the hacked Mint or MySQL downloads incidents.

So I see the markets as :

1) Enterprise users with complex setups and tools (domains, collaboration tools…). Subscription based, simple no bloatware OS, compatibility between updates. Minimal security patching and no constant introduction of changes. They run what they need and they don’t want to be snooped on.

2) Home users and eventually SMBs using only the App Store and having a basic client to cloud services. You get Apple’s reliability and easy way to maintain compatibility for MS as Apps are not as embedded in the OS. An IT admin can authorize everything without worry or only authorize some apps. Easy to manage. The rest is locked. Your uncle will stop calling you every 3 months to fix his computer because he again downloaded something he shouldn’t have. I made a very big registry file to try to approximate something like this. Whenever I install a PC, I run this and a batch file to set it in a way that will be as secure as reasonable for the person I give it to. But for people with no time or skills, it is too hard to secure the PC or it can bring other problems so IT consultants just gives you the basics and you call them when you have issues.

3) People willing to try stuff and risk more, those using torrents and other things like that or downloading programs that are not mainstream. This market is not lucrative for MS. They will either be tech savvy or mess their computers often getting malware or tinker with Windows in unusual ways that creates problems. Why not let them use Windows for free without support, make them insiders to help crush bugs, let them have the control they want, don’t snoop on them, but use them to make a better OS for 1 and 2. Maybe you prefer to have these people on Windows than get too good with another OS. Plus, the world will always have a need for Apps where the developers don’t have to pay the App store tax. These #2 users need a way to not be snooped at, though. Maybe you could argue that basic telemetry isn’t snooping, but the problem with MS is they broke trust by being deceptive, changing privacy settings without your consent, changing the rules of the game and shoveling it down your throat even when you pay, removing Pro features from GPEdit, etc. Google has always used your data, but they have been more open about it. They said a machine looks at your email to suggest ads, no human. They didn’t write in a license agreement that they could look inside your PC and maybe sue you if they found something they didn’t like that your teenager downloaded (liberal interpretation of that famous clause that is very encompassing and scary). So they have a lot to do to regain trust. Some people are also just not comfortable with so much data about them stored somewhere where it will likely be hacked one day.

I see two ways to see the Apps. One is approved and verified only, the other is “unsafe” app. You could still download those, with a warning, and the developer wouldn’t have to pay for it. As an admin, you could lock all unsafe with exceptions. This would help people transition to Universal apps and if the model is sound, these unsafe apps might be more secure anyway if they don’t have access to many deeper level OS features. Then if everybody uses apps, at some point you can more easily completely change the underlying OS for a more secure and simpler model and port the app store and apps. Windows for home and SMBs don’t need all the underlying complexity that Enterprises uses.

Reply | Quote

I don’t believe that Microsoft is abandoning Windows. Almost everyone identifies Windows with Microsoft. For that reason alone, they need to keep Windows going. If Microsoft abandons Windows, a huge number of people will think that Microsoft is in serious trouble, and they will abandon Microsoft for someone else.

When I worked for GE many years ago, there was talk of selling off the Appliance division. But they decided to keep it, because Appliances was the main way that people identified GE. In other words, they HAD to keep it, even though it wasn’t a very profitable division, because in many peoples’ minds, GE WAS appliances.

Reply | Quote

Some interesting points, Jim (message #10), and probably true. They need to keep the Windows brand, but not necessarily Windows as we’ve known it.

It looks to me like MS is trying to get out of the consumer OS business, but keep the enterprise end of it– as a pared-down front-end for their cloud services more than a general-purpose OS.

I can’t think of anything else that will fully explain the unprecedented aggression we’ve seen from MS toward their home customers since the Windows 10 debacle started. Almost without exception, enterprise customers have been spared the abuse that has been delivered to the home/SOHO customers. It’s as if it is designed to alienate those customers while leaving the enterprise customers intact.

If MS keeps ramping up the aggressive attempts to “monetize” their home customers, removing any vestiges of control they may have had in the past, it would stand to reason that these customers will begin to look for better alternatives. They’ll stay and be “monetized” until they do… and once enough people have left, MS can begin to position Windows as an enterprise product.

It will take some time, but people will stop thinking of MS being the same as Windows– home customers, in fact, may stop thinking about Microsoft at all, which would be just fine by MS. As long as their enterprise customers keep coming for their periodic helpings of vendor lock-in, MS will be happy.

Reply | Quote

Do you think that the enterprise customers are off the hook for good? I get the impression from reading Microsoft’s material that the enterprise customers are getting a delay on all of the control, but not a permanent exemption. My take on that is that Microsoft is shielding those who are paying the big bucks (i.e. enterprises), so as to keep them from bolting to Linux or some other solution; meanwhile, they are moving everyone else to the new way of doing things. Then, several years down the road, when everyone except the enterprise customers are on the new model, they can start to move the enterprise to that model as well.

Reply | Quote

In my opinion, it would be not so difficult to convince CEO’s from moving away from M$.

The argument:
M$ acquires your data, and can sell it, or use it themselves, to gain an advantage in the market.

Would you like your competition to know exactly how your finances look like? And, how would you feel if you were constantly being underbid on projects?

Would you like it if your competition has the possibility to patent your innovation before you do?

Obviously, buying this info might work for your enterprise too. It would probably fly in yankee-land, but what about countries with a proper justice system?

What happens if the EU forces M$ to cut out telemetry and ads from the OS. Will Mercer cs. give you a refund for your EU devices, on top of the immense penalty they would have to pay the EU?

If you need to convince a CEO, bring only money related arguments, he/she isn’t interested in any other ones.

Reply | Quote

By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

Computerworld | Mar 7, 2016 10:28 AM PT

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3041378/microsoft-windows/microsoft-doesn-t-need-windows-anymore.html

Reply | Quote

Those with the Enterprise version of Windows 10 – and some savvy admins – can block just about all of the snooping.

Reply | Quote

Indeed Woody. An excellent admin, and an even more brilliant lawyer, and the funds to pay them both.

Reply | Quote

Quite remarkably, you don’t need the lawyers and guns… but it helps to have money.

Microsoft explains exactly what’s being taken from Enterprise machines:

https://gallery.technet.microsoft.com/Windows-Server-and-System-d8d98dc6

And how Enterprise admins can block (almost) all of it:

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/itpro/windows/manage/configure-windows-telemetry-in-your-organization

Reply | Quote

You clearly have more trust and confidence in the moral integrity of M$ than I do, which is admirable. I’ve always had trust issues.

Reply | Quote

Stop using Windows.
Things like I use Windows but I don’t trust Microsoft are just spam. And it is far too much of it here.

Reply | Quote

I think this is about long term, not about discontinuing Windows now or in the next few years.

Reply | Quote