Where we stand with the December 2019 updates

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It was a hairy month for many admins. Individual users didn’t have quite so many problems. My usual monthly rundown of problems with Microsoft patches
[See the full post at: Where we stand with the December 2019 updates]

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Win7and10, AlphaCharlie, abbodi86, dgreen, Myst, GreatAndPowerfulTech, G, SueW, OldBiddy, fernlady

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Forgive me, I can’t remember if this was addressed before, but will there be one more Win7 update in January before its end of life?

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abbodi86

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Yes, however many are issued for January. As from the 2nd Tuesday in February there will be no regular monthly patches for Win7.

If debian is good enough for NASA...

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Myst, Steve, OldBiddy, woody

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Thank you @Microfix for verifying this. Now I have to really decide what to replace my old laptop with, a Mac, Chromebook or what. As it is though, I basically use my current laptop like a Chromebook, just doing everything with Chrome. But I guess this a different topic for another thread somewhere.

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GreatAndPowerfulTech, Microfix

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OldBiddy wrote:

Thank you @Microfix for verifying this. Now I have to really decide what to replace my old laptop with, a Mac, Chromebook or what. As it is though, I basically use my current laptop like a Chromebook, just doing everything with Chrome. But I guess this a different topic for another thread somewhere.

Have you considered moving to Linux Mint on the same machine? You may be surprised to see that it “just works”.

GreatAndPowerfulTech

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OldBiddy

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@greatandpowerfultech thank you for the suggestion – you’re very kind to think I might be capable of using Linux. Compared to everyone here I am very non-techie. I’ve never before installed an OS from scratch so I’d be doing everyone here a favor by not attempting it 😊. Before I retired, most of my job positions required using Windows so I’m not used to much else, except for iOS. I just like Win7 a lot and that’s the reason for my reading Askwoody.

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There are still Windows 8.1 license Keys remaining in the retail channels so maybe give that a try and Security Updates until 2023. There are Windows 8.1 Pro Keys available from between $25-$35! And then after installing 8.1,  you can install some third party TIFKAM UI taming software to make Windows 8.1’s UI look and act more like 7’s UI.

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OldBiddy, Karlston

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Thank you for this suggestion. Win8.1 may be what I can work with.

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Or just move to W10 – it is a good OS despite the few patching issues.

cheers, Paul

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AlphaCharlie, OldBiddy, wavy

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Thank you, @paul-t I have thought of this too, but feel overwhelmed by so much discussion here about its problems.

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Yes that’s the major issue with windows 10 on old, or even new hardware, and that too rapid of an update cadence with the new feature sets. So more folks still wanting OS and UI longer term stability. Maybe MS should release a 3 year longer term consumer friendly Windows 10 LTSC/consumer version where no new feature changes are pushed out and the focus is stability and usability.  So a 3 year Consumer Windows 10 variant that focuses on stability and bug fixes only instead of being a continually changing moving feature update target.

Old Windows 7 and 8/8.1 PC/Laptop hardware will see better results going from 7 to 8/8.1 as that’s the OS versions that where actually around when that Older hardware was new and that’s the Windows OS versions(7, 8/8.1) that most of the OEM’s vetted/certified that old PC/Laptop hardware for when that old hardware was actually new. And OEM’s are unlikely to take the time and expense of re-vetting/re-certifying that old hardware for Windows 10.

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OldBiddy

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The upgrade is simple and we are here to help.
Make an image backup and go for it!

Make a new topic here before you start and keep us informed in there.

cheers, Paul

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OldBiddy

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@paul-t thank you I will definitely give serious consideration to upgrading to Win10. I will post in a new topic if I do. I guess I’d have nothing to lose once Win7 is out of support anyway.

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So the problem win Windows 7, as described in the article, happens only if you install KB4531786 (Servicing Stack Update) *before* KB4530734 (December Monthly Rollup)?

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Everything I’ve seen says that, yes, it’s a sequencing problem.

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MrToad28, jburk07

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After reading the article in Computerworld, I find the following paragraph confusing, at least as it applies to individual users like myself:

“Those of you using plain old single-system Monthly Rollups won’t encounter the problem. But if you or your system’s admin is manually installing patches, getting them in the wrong order can cause all sorts of problems. Manually installing the Servicing Stack Update can be particularly vexing because SSUs won’t show up until you’ve installed (or hidden) all outstanding patches.”

Assuming that the correct order of installation is “the SSU after all the other patches”, then, if (a) one installs the servicing stack only after going ahead and installing the checked patches (those one has not hidden already) detected and then listed by Windows Update, because (b) only then, according to the quoted paragraph, does the SSU appear, how can (c)  this one be installed in the wrong order and cause the problem being described?

Even if one is Group B and installs the SO and IE11 updates by hand, but only after installing one’s selection of the patches offered initially and also after creating  a restore point immediately after this installation has completed (as, at a minimum, one should do), then all that one has to do is to install the SO  and IE11 patches first, then, and only then, at the very end, the SSU. That is the recommended order and one should always take this order into account.

So, could there be another reason for having a problem other than plain and simple inattention? A clarification of this point shall be most appreciated, especially before I install any December patches.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Charlie

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All of my Windows 7 computers Group B. I installed the December SSU before installing the December SO update and then the December IE update. I didn’t encounter any apparent problems when installing them.

Obviously I should have installed the December SSU last. I wish that I had not installed the December SSU since it is suggested that it breaks TrustedInstaller? I would recommend not installing the December SSU at this time.

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Charlie

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The more I read about the SSUs the less I like about MS’s lack of proper ordering of these SSU updates for any folks in Group B. I’d rather that MS just publish a universal update ordering sequencing number system where each patch is properly ordered in order to avoid any dependency conflicts where SSUs need to be installed in the proper order relative to the  other KBs that need to follow monthly ordering of their own.

I’m really just about to call any further Windows 7 updates EOL as of Dec 1 2019 and just stop there until someone publishes an ordering/numbering list for all the old Windows 7 update catalog sourced KBs.  Group B updating is confusing in that regard but MS is not helping matters with its lack of guidance.

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anonymous wrote:

I’m really just about to call any further Windows 7 updates EOL as of Dec 1 2019 and just stop there until someone publishes an ordering/numbering list for all the old Windows 7 update catalog sourced KBs.  Group B updating is confusing in that regard but MS is not helping matters with its lack of guidance.

Microsoft doesn’t recognize any sort of “Group B” – it’s a creation of this site.

Microsoft will not be providing guidance for piecemeal patching; their official guidance is “install them all, when we provide them, and in the order we provide them.”

Btw, how would they justify writing and releasing the patches that they’d then tell you not to install?

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PKCano

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jabeattyauditor wrote:

Microsoft doesn’t recognize any sort of “Group B” – it’s a creation of this site.

It’s true that the “Group B” terminology is one I made up, specifically to make it easier to refer to the Security only variant of Win7 patching.

But the “Security-only” side of the force is Microsoft’s making, not mine.

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Charlie, SueW

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Hi anonymous,

I have the ordered list which you are asking for, in case you ever want to do a fresh install of Windows 7 Group B style.

Best regards,

–GTP

 

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[Seff]

Has anyone established yet whether Windows 7 machines can be upgraded to Windows 10 (as opposed to a clean install of Windows 10) while there are still Windows Updates outstanding, or does the latest upgrade tool require the latest Windows 7 updates to be installed first?

I’d like to proceed with the upgrade on my machines without risking any more Windows 7 updates, but I’ve tried it twice (with and without MSE uninstalled, on one machine only) and it fails at 70+% and reverts to my Windows 7 desktop. I must admit I forgot to uninstall MBAM as well although that is only on manual scans as it’s the free version, so I may uninstall that and try again as well as trying it on the other machine.  Maybe I also need to hide any outstanding Windows Updates first if I’m not going to install them?

Given that January’s updates will be the last ones for Windows 7, it’s very tempting if there are serious doubts over the December (and possibly January) updates to forget those updates – unless they’re critical for any Windows 10 upgrade process.

EDIT: Come to think of it, I don’t actually have the November updates fully installed either. I did install them on the machine I’ve since tried the Windows 10 upgrade on, but I suffered the well documented black screen issue that prompted me to do a system restore although it was later attributed to a MSE update (I’ve since seen a Chrome update blamed too). Consequently as the machine was working again I did nothing more with the November updates and planned on waiting until December to see how that month’s updates fared.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Seff.

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Microfix

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Has anyone established yet whether Windows 7 machines can be upgraded to Windows 10 (as opposed to a clean install of Windows 10) while there are still Windows Updates outstanding, or does the latest upgrade tool require the latest Windows 7 updates to be installed first?

a good question in the twilight zone..(cue theme tune) FWIW I was under the impression that when GWX ended, so did in-place upgrades from Win7 to W10..have only done clean installs to avoid the unpleasantries

If debian is good enough for NASA...

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Seff

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Just did W7 to W10 Home ‘free’ upgrade in place with no problems.Virtually all programs carried over OK.

:W10Pro and W11Pro 22H2

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DrRon, woody

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Seff wrote:

Has anyone established yet whether Windows 7 machines can be upgraded to Windows 10 (as opposed to a clean install of Windows 10) while there are still Windows Updates outstanding, or does the latest upgrade tool require the latest Windows 7 updates to be installed first?

Windows 7 upgrades to Windows 10 doesn’t rely on any Windows 7 patches. It is a full new OS.

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Seff

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It actually require latest WU Client update to function

and if you are using W10 1903 or 1909, all its files are sha2-signed only, so you will need the proper update support for that on W7

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woody, PKCano

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woody wrote:

Win10 version 1909 bugs continue
The December patch didn’t fix the long-decried File Explorer Search bug in Win10 version 1909.

Are there other bugs?

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Quote from article: ““In our investigation we confirmed the problem having to do with KB4530734 (December Monthly Rollup for Windows 7 Service Pack 1). More specifically, we believe it had something to do with KB4531786 (Servicing stack update for Windows 7 SP1 and Server 2008 R2 SP1: December 10, 2019) applying out of order. Interestingly, if you look at the notes for the December rollup it specifies a recommendation to install the SSU afterward (not a requirement).”

So, regarding the M$ recommendation to install SSU (2019-12) AFTER the CU,  I noticed the same behavior for November CU/SSU  if you let WU handle the updates automatically.   I don’t know if this behavior was seen in October or earlier.  Does anybody know exactly when this change to “SSU after CU” started in which patch month?

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I Installed the Dec Updates on eight (8) Win7 machines of varying types (32 and 64 bit, Home, Pro, and Ultimate). I let Windows Update handle the installation each time, which means the Rollup, .NET, Office (when installed), and MSRT were installed first and the SSU appeared and installed AFTER the reboot. In all cases, the initial install of the Rollup involved two (2) reboots to complete, but presented no problems. And I had no problems with the SSU installs afterward.

But that was only with my 8 machines. But I have been letting Windows Update handle the updating in the past as well.

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GoneToPlaid, abbodi86, MrToad28, dgreen, Myst, jburk07, OldBiddy, woody

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Did the second reboot happen on its own or did you need to manually restart?

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OldBiddy

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Just left it alone until it finished. Did both reboots by itself. I have tried to quit fighting Windows Updates and just let them happen (when I choose, of course).

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abbodi86, dgreen, Myst, OldBiddy, Moonbear

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The reason I ask, is that this will be the first time I’m installing updates while using a password protected account, will this cause any issues?

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All my accounts are password protected. Never made any difference once I logged in.

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In all of the cases of second reboots which I have seen, it just happens automatically. The upshot is that if stuff for the kernel is updated and which the rest of the update depends on this kernel stuff being already installed, then a second reboot is automatically performed in order to finish installing the rest of the stuff in the update.

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W7 Home Premium SP1 x64, Group B.

nazzy wrote:

So, regarding the M$ recommendation to install SSU (2019-12) AFTER the CU,  I noticed the same behavior for November CU/SSU  if you let WU handle the updates automatically.   I don’t know if this behavior was seen in October or earlier.  Does anybody know exactly when this change to “SSU after CU” started in which patch month?

I have read the KB articles for both the December 2019 Rollup (KB4530734) and the December 2019 SO update (KB4530692) for W7. My interpretation and understanding is that is that Microsoft “strongly recommends” that you install the latest SSU (KB4531786) after you have installed the March 2019 SSU (KB4490628) and the September 2019 SHA-2 update (KB4474419) and restarted your computer – NOT after you have installed either the W7 Rollup or the W7 SO update. All this is written in the “Prerequisite” section of each article.

That said, I installed the March 2019 SSU on the 5 April 2019 and the September 2019 SHA-2 update on the 4 October 2019. So the prerequisites for the December 2019 W7 SO update have already been installed on my computer for over three months. (I should add that the September 2019 SSU (KB4516655) and the November 2019 SSU (KB4523206) are also installed on my system.) Could someone please let me know (or point me to where it is explained) what potential disaster awaits my system if I follow Microsoft’s recommendation and install the latest SSU (KB4531786) BEFORE installing the December 2019 SO update for W7?

Or would I really be advised to ignore Microsoft’s strong recommendation, and do what PKCano appears to have done, and install the December 2019 SO update for W7 and the December 2019 CU for IE11 FIRST and afterwards, when I progress onto the WU updates, install the latest SSU (KB4531786) when it is offered?

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Kaj4strom

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b wrote:

woody wrote:

Win10 version 1909 bugs continue
The December patch didn’t fix the long-decried File Explorer Search bug in Win10 version 1909.

Are there other bugs?

Yes there are other bugs with Win 10 1909 like KB4530684 refusing to

install on a lot of PC. Just do a search on the web. And the suggested workaround

dows not fix the issue.

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WSaltamirano wrote:

Just do a search on the web.

I did. Couldn’t find any others.

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Take a look at reddit and search for KB4530684, or

try tenforums in the “Installation & Upgrade” subforum.

Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 Desktop PC

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I looked there too, but couldn’t find any common unresolved bugs (other than File Explorer search) reported by users who have upgraded to version 1909:

Known and Resolved issues for Windows 10 Nov. 2019 Update version 1909 [at TenForums.com]

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Checking in…
My 1903 machines (14 day quality update deferral) installed rollup KB4530684 and .NET rollup KB4533002 on 12/26 with no issues.

I can also confirm that I recently upgraded several machines from 7 to 10 for a SMB friend of mine and yes, you can upgrade machines that have 7 updates to install, straight to 10 with no in-between updates needed.

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jburk07, Seff, b

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I’m not updating the December updates yet (all are hidden) but the .net’s keep coming in unchecked, October kb 4524102 was unchecked (hidden) November’s .net disappeared from the hidden and December kb 4533095 is unchecked. I want to be updated before the update plug is pulled but I also don’t want any problems. Any advice for going forward will be much appreciated.

Windows 11 Pro
Version 23H2
OS build 22631.4890

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Win7and10

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The .NET updates in WU are Rollups that contain patches for multiplethe versions of .NET.
(If you look in the Catalog you will see they are composed of many files.)
There are not always updates for all the versions of .NET, and you do not have all the versions installed on your computer.
So, if there is no update for the version(s) you have installed, the Rollup may not be checked for you b/c there is no applicable update for your version(s).

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Win7and10, fernlady

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Thank you PK, I won’t worry then. Have a great day!

Windows 11 Pro
Version 23H2
OS build 22631.4890

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Some of the posts above state that MS recommends installing the SSU for Win 7 AFTER installing the Rollup. But, in fact, that is NOT what MS recommends. In the following link, in the ‘Prerequisites’ section it says they strongly recommend installing the SSU BEFORE the Rollup (but after the SHA-2 patches)

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4530734/windows-7-update-kb4530734

A similar statement is made here:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4530692

which is the MS support page for the SO patch

On other threads here at askwoody, folks have reported installation success with either order. Some folks have reported installation failure when attempting to install the Rollup BEFORE the SSU.

I’m confused. Any and all clarification is welcomed. Install the SSU before or after the Rollup/SO??

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SueW, KWGuy, RDRguy, jburk07, OldBiddy

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[nazzy]

Point #1, you have the MS recommendation to install SSU before CU, which I’m assuming has always  been the case (until recently?) according to the links you provided.

Point #2, according to previous posts here, at least for Dec patch month, you have Win7 machines having problems when SSU was installed *before* CU (per MS’s recommendation).

Point #3, Windows Update, when allowed to install patches automatically, will first install the CU and then the SSU afterwards, at least for November and December from what I’ve seen.

My suggestion: I’d go with the real-world results in Point #2 and #3 and install SSU *after* the CU, to be on the safer side. But that’s just me.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by nazzy.

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Charlie, Myst, RDRguy, DrBonzo, jburk07

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Quoted from the December 10, 2019—KB4530692 (Security-only update) KB article …

Prerequisite:

You must install the updates listed below and restart your device before installing the latest Rollup. Installing these updates improves the reliability of the update process and mitigates potential issues while installing the Rollup and applying Microsoft security fixes.

The March 12, 2019 servicing stack update (SSU) (KB4490628). To get the standalone package for this SSU, search for it in the Microsoft Update Catalog.

The latest SHA-2 update (KB4474419) released September 10, 2019. If you are using Windows Update, the latest SHA-2 update will be offered to you automatically. For more information on SHA-2 updates, see 2019 SHA-2 Code Signing Support requirement for Windows and WSUS.

After installing the items above, Microsoft strongly recommends that you install the latest SSU (KB4531786). If you are using Windows Update, the latest SSU will be offered to you automatically. To get the standalone package for the latest SSU, search for it in the Microsoft Update Catalog. For general information about SSUs, see Servicing stack updates and Servicing Stack Updates (SSU): Frequently Asked Questions.

Though not clearly worded, I interpret Microsoft’s phrase “After installing the items above” in the last paragraph above to mean install the previously released SSU update & the SHA-2 patches and the Dec update (KB4530734 or KB4530692) and only after all these are successfully installed, install the latest SSU (KB4531786).

Win7 - PRO & Ultimate, x64 & x86
Win8.1 - PRO, x64 & x86
Groups A, B & ABS

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KWGuy, DrBonzo, jburk07

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I see what you’re saying, but the very first line under ‘Prerequisite’ says you must install the updates below BEFORE installing the Rollup. It then goes on to list the SSU as one of the updates below (that are to be installed before installing the SSU).

That says to me that the order is important and that the SSU should be installed before the Rollup (or SO).

This really seems like a crapshoot to me. FWIW, in previous months I’ve installed SSU patches before Rollups or SOs and haven’t had any problems.

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SueW, RDRguy, KWGuy

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True but, if Microsoft really wanted you to install the latest SSU KB4531786 before the monthly Rollup (or SO Update), I would expect them to add it as another item, perhaps item #3 as they did with items #1 & #2 (when I copied the KB article here from Microsoft, the item #’s didn’t copy over to my quote above).

Again, Microsoft’s prerequisite statement seems ambiguous & I only wanted to relay my interpretation of it and thereby offer another point of view.

Win7 - PRO & Ultimate, x64 & x86
Win8.1 - PRO, x64 & x86
Groups A, B & ABS

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jburk07, DrBonzo

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You may be correct in your interpretation, but this is essentially the same wording as in past months…when it was interpreted as recommending installing the SSU before the CU.

Note that the lines immediately above “Prerequisite” say “How to get this update” and then “Before installing this update”.  This to me is a direct reference to KB4530734.

Of course, what MS says and what MS does are two different things!  I’ve updated two w7 machines using the SSU before CU order with no issues (tho the installation boot up took considerable longer than normal).  I installed SSU first from catalog and then CU from Windows update.  Have two more machines to go and I’m now unsure if I did it correctly or was just lucky!!!

I’m actually looking forward to the end of W7 patching!

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PDX5802, Lars220, SueW, Myst, jburk07, DrBonzo, RDRguy

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DrBonzo,

The paragraph in question, in either link, reads as follows:

“After installing the items above, Microsoft strongly recommends that you install the latest SSU (KB4531786). If you are using Windows Update, the latest SSU will be offered to you automatically. To get the standalone package for the latest SSU, search for it in the Microsoft Update Catalog. For general information about SSUs, see Servicing stack updates and Servicing Stack Updates (SSU): Frequently Asked Questions.”

My understanding is that where it says: “After installing the items above” it means “all of the items ever mentioned in the preceding paragraph”, which includes also the Rollup.

Maybe some of the people that installed the SSU before the Rollup and then encountered problems read that and got confused by the wording. Or maybe they were not paying enough attention.

I have argued earlier in this thread (#2041325), in my usual plodding way, that the instructions quoted in the Woody’s Computerworld article are clear enough and I can’t see how they could have been any clearer or confuse people, given how the updates are well known to appear to users of Win 7 in the Windows Update window when we have set up WU to “check for updates and let us know if there are any,  but do not install them”.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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DrBonzo, RDRguy

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I concur with your interpretation of Microsoft’s highly ambiguous wording concerning this issue.

Win7 - PRO & Ultimate, x64 & x86
Win8.1 - PRO, x64 & x86
Groups A, B & ABS

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OscarCP

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For my own sanity, I truly hope that this SSU  issue is as clear and unconfusing as you suggest.  That being the case, I’ve no doubt that Woody will give us a definitive SSU before or SSU after answer when he moves us to Defcon 3.  Both sides of this discussion present logical  and reasonable arguments.

I may consider making my remaining unpatched Win7 machines EOL a couple months early.  I’d really hate to brick them at this late date.  I’m loving my Chromebook more and more!!!

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Spiral, Myst

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KWGuy wrote:

I’m loving my Chromebook more and more!!!

Though I use various photoshop and media programs on the Win 7, the Chromebook is great for safe web browsing. I’m happy with that and the simplicity of the Chromebook on the whole.

MacOS iPadOS and sometimes SOS

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OldBiddy, KWGuy, Spiral

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December updates (rollup KB4530734 or so KB4530692) contain the underlying support for Extended Security Updates
and both require the Extended SSU, which we have 3 of them, any of them will suffice for now:
KB4531786
KB4523206
KB4516655

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DrBonzo

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I’m not sure whether this is related to the December patches or not — I was away from work for two weeks and my computer was off — but after applying them to my 1903 system at work, Slack was no longer able to post notifications via the Action Center.

 

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Those of you using plain old single-system Monthly Rollups won’t encounter the problem.

does this refer to monthly rollups only or does this also apply to security only kb4530692? and that problems triggering ssu kb4531786 will also be needed for security only kb4530692, i assume?

PC: Windows 7 Ultimate, 64bit, Group B
Notebook: Windows 8.1, 64bit, Group B

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Microsoft’s wording is very confusing because I updated two win 7 machines manually installing November 2019 servicing stack update (SSU) before November 2019 security only (SO) update. I had no problems but it appears from the discussions here I did it in the wrong order, ie, should have been the SO before the SSU.

I have two more win 7 machines to update using monthly rollup method via WU that are updated through March 2019. Looking at most recent monthly rollup instructions, assuming you have March 2019 SSU (KB4490628) and install September 2019 SHA-2 (KB4474419):

September 2019 monthly rollup KB4516065 instructions:
– Sep 2019 monthly rollup (KB4516065)
– Sep 2019 SSU (KB4516655)

October 2019 monthly rollup KB4519976 instructions:
– Sep 2019 SSU (KB4516655)
– Oct 2019 monthly rollup (KB4519976)

November 2019 monthly rollup KB4525235 instructions:
– Nov 2019 monthly rollup (KB4525235)
– Nov 2019 SSU (KB4523206)

December 2019 monthly rollup KB4530734 instructions:
– Dec 2019 monthly rollup (KB4530734)
– Dec 2019 SSU (KB4531786)

October seems to require the September SSU before the October monthly rollup, so what happens if you install the December 2019 monthly rollup (after not updating since March 2019), and when it gets to October, the September SSU isn’t there.

And do I need to install the September, November and December 2019 SSU’s – all 3 of them.

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[RDRguy]

My thoughts based on the current update status of your 2 remaining Win7 systems requiring updates via “Group A” rollups:

1) Monthly “Rollups” are cumulative (at least they’re supposed to be) therefore … the Dec 2019 Monthly Rollup (KB4530734) includes the missing Apr 2019 thru Nov 2019 updates so no need to install the missing Apr – Nov rollups now.

2) The Dec 2019 Rollup requires Mar 2019 SSU (KB4490628) update & Sep 2019 SHA-2 (KB4474419) update so these 2 need to be installed prior to installing the Dec 2019 Rollup. The Sep 2019 SSU (KB4516655) update & Nov 2019 SSU (KB4523206) update are not listed as prerequisites for the Dec 2019 Rollup so also no need to install either of these now.

3) After installing the Dec 2019 Rollup plus any other remaining needed (or desired) important updates found by Windows Update (e.g. .Net, MSOffice, MSE, etc.), install the Dec 2019 SSU (KB4531786) update.

In reference to your question:

“so what happens if you install the December 2019 monthly rollup (after not updating since March 2019), and when it gets to October, the September SSU isn’t there.”

I can only presume that only Microsoft can correctly answer this but I can speculate that the previous Sep & Nov SSU updates are either also contained within the Dec 2019 Rollup or they are no longer required to facilitate updating Win7 up thru Dec 2019.

(edited for typos)

Win7 - PRO & Ultimate, x64 & x86
Win8.1 - PRO, x64 & x86
Groups A, B & ABS

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by RDRguy.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by RDRguy.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by RDRguy.

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derma

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I know the updates are cumulative. I was querying what happens when it gets round to applying the October part of the December 2019 monthly rollup KB4530734 and the September SSU KB4516655 isn’t there, as October was the only month that required the SSU first.

Do I still need to install Sep, Nov & Dec 2019 SSU after December 2019 monthly rollup KB4530734.

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[EP]

NO!

YOU JUST NEED THE LATEST SSU, derma!

and you need to install the SSU by itself, not along with other updates [aka. standalone]

then reboot and install the Dec. 2019 KB4530734 rollup whenever woody & Susan give the green light to do so.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by EP.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by EP.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by EP.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Microfix.

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derma

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You mean December monthly rollup KB4530734 before December SSU KB4531786 (at least that’s what this thread suggests).

I will install the December 2019 SSU and ignore Sep 2019 & Nov 2019 SSUs, once all clear is given.

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Derma, This discussion emphasizes the Rollup, but the SSU has to be installed after all the other patches one intends to apply have been applied. One can choose which of the December patches to install before the December SSU: the Rollup for Group A, Security Only and IE11 for Group B, plus some of these: MSRT and miscellaneous Office patches, etc.  For all of these, I would follow the advice posted by Susan in her Master Patch List around the fourth week after the patches have been released. (It is a good idea to install any patches marked as “critical” and “security”, unless one hears complaints about them and waits until their problems have been resolved,).

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Could this topic possibly get any more confusing?!! <grin>     “…install SSU”… and “then… install Dec KB4530734 rollup…” seems like an MVP vote for SSU before CU!

Also note that in the recently updated Patch Watch it says “Installs First” re: KB4531786 SSU.

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See #2041349 above.

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KWGuy

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To help or, I hope, at least not to confuse things even more: Besides installing the December SSU last, I seem to remember advice from a previous occasion, given by one of the MVPs, that might be better to get an SSU from the catalog, instead of installing what will show up automatically with its KB name in Windows Update after the common updates have been installed. Maybe someone could give a really informed opinion on this?

For me it’s almost just as easy either way.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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[Pierre77]

FWIW. I installed all December updates on 3 PCs running W7 Home Premium x64 on 30 Dec 2019 without any problems.

KB 4533095, KB4530734 and KB980830 all installed.

Was then offered 4531786 and installed – no problem.

Also installed 5 of updates for M$ Office 2010 (1 PC only) – no problems.

 

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Pierre77. Reason: More info

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jburk07, Charlie, dgreen, Myst

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Just updated 1 of my 1809 computers to Dec. updates. MSRT, KB 4533094 (.net), KB 4530715 (17763.914). So far all is well.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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Finished the rest of my 1809 computers today, all 1809 17763.914 now (Dec. updates). All seems well on all computers.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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jburk07

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Please pardon my ignorance, but I’m a newbie at Win10 update avoidance, and my Pause period expires on January 11, 2020.
I’m currently on v1903 (18362.476)
Classic Shell v4.3.1
Wushowhide downloaded 12-07-19

I’ve seen some of the links (and probably bookmarked some of the pages here on AW, but I could use a (no pun intended) crash course on holding off on updating and what to do when the all-clear bell is rung.

Thanks much for any advice/help/AW thread links! 🙂
-Grond

Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 Desktop PC

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I am assuming you have Home Edition. There are other/additional controls for Pro.
+ You can end the Pause period whenever you like before the ending date and install updates when the all-clear is given.
+ When your Pause ends, you will have to install any pending updates before you can use Pause again.
+ You can use wushowhide to HIDE updates. Use the “Advanced” link then uncheck the box to apply changes automatically. Then either Hide or Unhide updates.
+ You can prevent Cumulative Updates from downloading by setting your Internet connection to “Metered.” This tells MS that you have to pay for the bits downloaded (whether you do or not). Sometimes MS ignores this, but most of the time it works.
+ For Upgrades (move to the next version) there should be a section that allows you the “download and install now” at the time of your choosing.

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Grond

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I have the Pro version. I’m very much not trying to be snarky or smart-alecky or anything, but is my signature line not working?

Thank you so much, @PKCano, and everyone else here who tirelessly work to keep the rest of us on an even keel!
It cannot be easy.

Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 Desktop PC

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Sorry, I read your words, not your signature. The words did not distinguish.

For the Pro version, these are the settings I use (SAC no longer exists).

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Grond

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Since I won’t have access to our computers when Woody gives the Defcon go-ahead, I decided to be a Group A guinea pig this month on our Windows 7 (Home Premium and Ultimate) and Windows 10 (v. 1903) laptops. The updates including the SSU installed fine. I didn’t experience a double-restart on the Windows 7 laptops, and the Rollup didn’t take an unusually long time to restart. The MSRT did take longer than usual and seemed to have a longer-than-usual time after the reboot.

On the Windows 7 machines, I installed the updates separately (except for the Office updates) with restarts and waiting periods in between, in this order:

1. Rollup KB4530734 (Restarted; then waited about 30 min. before proceeding)
2. .NET KB4533095 (Restarted; then waited about 30 min.)
3. MSRT KB890830 (Restarted though not required; then waited about 30 min.)
4. The Office updates (Office 2010 and 2013) (No restart required, and I didn’t.)
5. The SSU KB4531786 showed up right away and I installed it. (Restarted though not required; then waited about 30 min.)

I haven’t noticed any problems so far. Thanks as usual to the MVP’s and everyone else posting here, and good luck on this month’s patches.

Linux Mint Cinnamon 21.1
Group A:
Win 10 Pro x64 v22H2 Ivy Bridge, dual boot with Linux
Win l0 Pro x64 v22H2 Haswell, dual boot with Linux
Win7 Pro x64 SP1 Haswell, 0patch Pro, dual boot with Linux,offline
Win7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Ivy Bridge, 0patch Pro,offline

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Chessie, SueW, Myst, bassmanzam, Lars220, DrBonzo

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Question: Thank you for taking my question. I value WOODY and his site and have kept my Win 7 computer alive by reading the suggestions here. I am very cautious with the Win 7 laptop and all suggestions here have been golden.

I currently have Win 7 updates November 2019 and have had some issues as those described above with the installation of the December 2019 patches. I have held back on he patches due to the nag screen. I did install the following on 12/11/19:

KB890830 Malicious Software Removal Tool

KB4531786 SSU for Windows 7 for x 64 based systems- it was offered after I hid the Monthly Updates

Both were very slow so indeed I held on the following:

KB 4533095 Security and Quality Rollup for .NET (December)

KB4530734 Monthly Quality Rollup (December)

At the time I thought it would be a great idea to install the SSU because it was offered to me after I hid the .NET and Monthly Rollups for December 2019.

In reading the latest here, I have a feeling that might not be a good thing.

Will there be difficulty now installing the December 2019 updates and should I just install January 2020 since I have the SSU installed?

I too am leaning NOT to install December, and maybe January if this is an issue, however, will continue to use my Win 7. I did just purchase and set up a WIN 10 beautiful new laptop, however, not a big surfer of the internet and therefore, will still use it from time to time. It’s like an old friend that you can’t part with 🙂 .

Win 10 Home 22H2

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We are still on DEFCON-2 for December patching. Wait for Woody to change the DEFCON number to 3 or above. At that time, he will also publish instructions for safe patching on ComputerWorld.

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jburk07, SueW, Myst, OscarCP

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With all due respect, Woody has now gone to Defcon 5, and announced in ComputerWorld that it’s safe to update for Group A Win 7 users only.  Group B Win 7 users are to get detailed instructions from you PKCano according to Woody in that Computerworld article.  What is the correct way to install the Dec. SSU – before or after the other main updates?

Being 20 something in the 70's was far more fun than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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Most (all) of the SSU issues with Windows 7 were in enterprises where they do patching differently from Windows update.  I had no issues with my Win7’s.  When Woody gives the all clear you can install the December patches at that time.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Win7and10, Charlie, jburk07

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@Susan Bradley – May I ask whether you installed the SSU before or after the Rollup (or SO) on your Win 7 computers?

Related to your comment about Win 7 SSU issues being in an enterprise environment, I read the link that Woody referenced in his Computerworld article (https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/eb3qts/ms_patch_tuesday_woes_kb4530734/) about a guy with 111 bricked Win 7 machines. Much of it is above my pay grade, but the guy seems to have traced the problem to not having installed the latest December SSU before installing the Rollup. I realize that folks here have posted successful results for installing the SSU before and after the Rollup (SO) installation, but I’m wondering if there might really be something to “proper” ordering – namely installing the SSU before the Rollup.

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Charlie, jburk07

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I’ve done them all after.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Charlie, DrBonzo, RDRguy

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[PerthMike]

abbodi86 wrote:

It actually require latest WU Client update to function

and if you are using W10 1903 or 1909, all its files are sha2-signed only, so you will need the proper update support for that on W7

But since the proper “free” W7 to W10 upgrade path is to DOWNLOAD the Media Creation Tool and do the install via that (not via Windows Update), it should not matter, as the MCT takes care of all the file downloading (or ISO creation if you wish). Sha-2 signing only affects Windows Updates, not when you have all the files on your system from another mechanism (like MCT).

No matter where you go, there you are.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by PerthMike.

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Seff, b

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W10 1803 Pro 64 bit.   The December cumulative update KB4530717 (manual install from Update Catalog)  stable for 4 weeks.

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An update update: Win 7 Starter 32 bit, installed the December SSU (KB4531786), IE 11 Cumulative (KB4530677), and Security Only (KB4530692), in that order with a restart after each. No problems before, during or after the entire process. As noted by some above, the Security Only did a double restart of it’s own accord; it also seemed to linger a bit on the “Starting Windows” screen and the “Please Wait” screen, although nothing that caused any nail-biting.

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SueW, Charlie

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Well we still don’t seem to have a definite answer as to whether the KB4531786  SSU gets installed after or before installing the Security Only Group B updates.  I’ve seen here where it’s been done both ways with no problems.  Based on what I read previously in this topic, I was all set to run the Win 7, IE-11 S.O., and Office 2010 updates first, and then do the SSU.

I’m seriously wondering if this December update is really worth the risk!

Being 20 something in the 70's was far more fun than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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Win7and10

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I agree, we still don’t seem to have a definitive answer regarding the order of the SSU and Rollup/SO.

As you can see above I installed the SSU FIRST, and then the other patches (IE11 and SO). I’ve done it this way ever since the SSUs have come out ‘frequently’, in other words for the last several months. I haven’t had any problems. I’ve read/reread the support pages from MS many times, and every time I do, I come away thinking they say to install the SSU BEFORE the other patches – at least that’s MS’s ‘strong recommendation’. And yes, I do know that other folks here have had success installing the SSU AFTER the other patches. I’m sort of thinking right now that it may not matter about the December SSU IF you have the November, or maybe even the October, SSU installed before installing the December Rollup/SO.

That’s my take on this for what it’s worth.

Good luck!

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Charlie, SueW

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Askwoody ‘Group A’ patchers who use Windows Update have always installed the SQMR and other patches first as presented by WU then once the update queue is cleared the SSU is revealed last for that month.
However..
Askwoody ‘Group B’ patchers have been installing the SSU first (as per MS recommendations) then all the SO relevant updates from the catalog.
I think using the word ‘rollups’ without defining whether it’s SO or SMQR is confusing the issue.

If debian is good enough for NASA...

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Charlie, SueW, DrBonzo

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Not to be argumentative, but I’m following MS’s own terminology. They refer to the SMQR as a ‘Rollup’ and the other as a ‘Security Only’.

When I use ‘Rollup/SO’, I’m trying to indicate that what I’ve said applies to either the Rollup or SO, at least to the best of my knowledge.

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I have to admit December and January updates have me being very cautious. I have been taking care of my computer very nicely over the years.

Just to be clear, I have the December SSU KB431786 installed and the MSRT for December installed and held back and hid the December Security updates for .NET KB4533095 and the December Monthly Rollup KB4530734.

From what I hear everyone saying, it should not matter with the Monthly Rollup or the .NET Security update to be installed AFTER the December SSU?

And, there might be several restarts with the updates or just the group that does the security only updates. I’m not in the groups, just a very cautious consumer that does not want to break her old friend Windows 7 who has been so good to me over the years.

Win 10 Home 22H2

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Chessie

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That’s the only thing I am concerned about. Since I hid the security updates for December and went ahead and let the SSU KB4531786 install since I was offered it, there is concern on my part whether to go ahead and try the December security updates or just wait and do the January 14, 2020 updates. Any thoughts?

Win 10 Home 22H2

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Go ahead and install the Dec Rollup. Be patient. It may reboot the computer twice during the install before it comes back to the login screen. And it may take a little longer than usual. Wait for it to finish.

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I have Windows 7 and am in Group B.  I’ve read through the above discussion,  and it doesn’t seem like we have a definitive answer yet from either Woody or PKCano about whether the SSU should be installed before or after the other December updates for people who are in Group B.  Woody’s Computerworld article refers Group B people to PKCano’s January 6th Reply # 2041349 above.  But that appears to apply to rollups,  and Group B people don’t do the monthly rollups,  because PKCano’s  AKB2000003 Step B4 says”Get Rid of the Monthly Rollup”.   Since the time of PKCano’s Reply # 2041349,  other people have questioned whether the SSU should be installed before the other December updates,  such as TonyC  in his January 10th  Reply # 2054332 and DrBonzo in his January 6th Reply # 2041432.  But I don’t see whether either TonyC or DrBonzo got an official reply from either Woody or PKCano.   A response that I found helpful came from Microfix in his January 10th Reply  # 2054359,  where he said “Askwoody ‘Group B’ patchers have been installing the SSU first (as per MS recommendations) then all the SO relevant updates from the catalog.”   I should also note that there was a response from PKCano in another forum topic about a month ago in the forum on November patches at https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/ms-defcon-4-time-to-get-the-november-patches-installed/  where PKCano said on December 6th in Reply # 2015799 ” You can install KB4523206 from the Catalog.  No Problem.  But if you go that route,  install it first,  then the others.”   So based on Microfix’s Reply  # 2054359 and PKCano’s Reply # 2015799,  I would assume that Group B people should install the SSU first,  before any of the other December updates.  I would appreciate any official response from either PKCano or Woody with respect to this assumption.  But I also have a question regarding my own computer,  as described in the next paragraph:

My question pertains to the fact  I did not install SSU first,  because I interpreted PKCano’s  January 6th Reply # 2041349 to mean that people in Group B could allow the SSU  to install last.  What I did was what I usually do as a Group B person:  I installed the Security Only (SO) and IE updates first,  then the Office Updates and MSRT.   And at that time,  the SSU was not listed as an available update to install in the Windows update “check for updates”.   But then after the Office and MSRT updates finished installing,  I did another check for updates,  and then at this time finally Microsoft offered me the SSU.  And so I installed that,  but it was installed last,  after everything else.  I then checked my update history,  and everything installed successfully,  including the SSU,  and it shows the SSU installed last.  But my question is as follows:  have the SO update, the IE update,  and the Office updates installed CORRECTLY,  in view of the fact that I did not install the SSU first?   If the answer to that question is “No”,  then what do I need to do?  Do I need to un-install SO, the IE and the Office updates  (but leave the SSU installed),  and then go back and re-install the SO, IE and Office updates again so that they are installed properly now that the SSU is in place?

I will appreciate a response to those questions,  especially if PKCano or Woody could respond.

 

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You have a definitive answer here in post #2054289.

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L95

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Thanks for your response, PKCano.   But please forgive me for asking for a clarification,  as I’m not very experienced knowledgeable about these matters.   The main question I was inquiring about in my Reply # 2070505 was in the second paragraph,  where I said:

      “I then checked my update history,  and everything installed successfully,  including the SSU,  and it shows the SSU installed last.  But my question is as follows:  have the SO update, the IE update,  and the Office updates installed CORRECTLY,  in view of the fact that I did not install the SSU first?”   

So I was wondering if you could please provide a response that either says  “Yes, you are done with the December updates and you don’t need to do anything further ” or “No” (and if the answer is “No”,  then please describe what further things I need to do).   This will enable me to either put the matter to rest and not worry about it anymore,  or else get to work on whatever else it is that I need to do with respect to the December updates.

I will appreciate this clarification,  and thanks for all the hard work that you and Woody and others do on the askwoody.com website.

 

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If nothing else CHECKED is pending, it looks like to me you are through!
Take a break for a couple of days 🙂  (till Patch Tues)

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L95

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I am still pondering whether to install the November SO patch, Nag screen and all (having installed all the other November ones that I usually do, including the IE 11 Cumulative one).

I am also wondering whether to bother with December’s and this month’s SO and with the SSU. I do not plan to subscribe to any extended support after the 14th of this month, but I am going “Group W”, only doing very rarely any Internet work from the Win 7 PC, because for that I already have Linux installed in dual boot in the PC and also my Mac and rarely use a browser on the PC any more. So not using a browser at all, except in some very exceptional cases, is not going to be a real problem.

But I may go ahead and install the Office 2010 patches until its end of support in October.

Given all of that, is there some compelling reason I’m not aware of for installing those three last SO and the SSU patches?

Thanks.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Oscar, see my last post in the “Get your systems patched” topic.  You may feel better about it.

Being 20 something in the 70's was far more fun than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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At some point you might as well get the January patches, just so you never have to think about it again.  They will (the ones up until January) still be available in the future, and I doubt they are a big deal.  I would get them, but wait a month first to hear if anybody has any complaints.  Turning off the nag screen should be easy.

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anonymous: “Turning off the nag screen should be easy.”

So how one would do that, precisely?

I have seen a considerable number of recipes in the comments that have been proffered, here and there, some full of an alphabet-soup of cryptic acronyms, but found little of substance in the explanations.

Just saying.

Edited for content.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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OscarCP wrote:

anonymous: “Turning off the nag screen should be easy.” So how one would do that, precisely?

The EOS nagware can be disabled by using taskschd.msc (Task Scheduler).

It creates new group under: \Microsoft\Windows, named ‘Setup’, which contains two tasks: ‘EOSNotify’ and ‘EOSNotify2’.  Right click on them and then click Disable. You should see that they are now disabled.  They run a new program ‘%windir%\System32\EOSNotify.exe’.

This is a slightly reworded version of this that I copied for my own use from someplace on Woody’s site.  I’ve done this and have not experienced any nags after the Dec. updates.

Being 20 something in the 70's was far more fun than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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Charlie: Thanks.

I still need to have something explained:

According to this:

https://www.geeksinphoenix.com/blog/post/2009/08/20/Using-Task-Scheduler-in-Windows-7.aspx

it would seem something else has to be done, perhaps, among other things, along these lines:

“Click the Action menu, and then click Create Basic Task. Type a name for the task and an optional description, and then click Next.”

So, do we need to create a “Basic Task” first, to take care of those two EOSNotify?  Or is that task created when the nagged SO patches are installed, so the two EOSNotify are there waiting for us to zap them?

Is it OK to do this after one has installed the November, December and January nagged SO patches? (My plan is to collect them and the SSU, but wait until the end of this month to install them, so there is enough time for me to observe the corresponding pain and suffering, glean the lessons learned from that and act accordingly.)

Any other details one should know about?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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OscarCP, that’s how you create a new task in Task Scheduler, but you don’t need to do that. The EOSNotify task(s) will already be there – you just have to disable them.

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OscarCP

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