Where we stand — and are going — with Windows 8

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	TOP STORY Where we stand — and are going — with Windows 8
	By Woody Leonhard Work on Windows 8 is in the home stretch, but predicting its success is still pure speculation — probably more so than with any previous Window release. Microsoft’s announcement that it will build and sell its own Windows 8 computers just adds more drama to an already opaque roll-out schedule.

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The full text of this column is posted at WindowsSecrets.com/top-story/where-we-stand-and-are-going-with-windows-8/ (opens in a new window/tab).

Columnists typically cannot reply to comments here, but do incorporate the best tips into future columns.[/td]

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It’s now been just over a year since I made the switch from Windows to Macintosh, and I haven’t regretted it for a minute. My Windows experience doesn’t quite go back to Windows 1, but almost. I still run Windows software every day – and even Microsoft software – but I run the former in a Parallels virtual machine, and the latter (Microsoft Office), mostly in its native Macintosh version. I have an iMac desktop, a Macbook Air laptop, an iPad 3 and an iPhone 4S. As you say, give Microsoft some credit for entering the tablet space, but like you, I think that they are at the beginning of a very long and difficult road, and I doubt that they will succeed. The difference between Apple and Microsoft has always been a philosophical one – Microsoft has always believed in entering a market by putting something very basic out there, and then improving it incrementally over years. Essentially all Microsoft users were enrolled as beta testers. A lot of their products have been initially pretty terrible. Apple on the other hand have generally only released products that were well-designed, polished and ready. There have been notable exceptions on both sides, but in general I think I’m right. Microsoft’s strategy has succeeded because of its dominant market position, but it doesn’t have that position vis-a-vis Apple in the market it is now entering – which is the world of the integrated digital ecosystem that Apple have built up over many years. Good luck to the folks at Redmond, I think they’ll need it.

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Well, I for one will not want to use W8. I had a look at both versions that have been available and after a first look I went back to Windows 7.
I am a standard Windows 7 user who might be a little more knowledgeable about the OS itself than a others, but I don’t use more than IE, Office and play Patience, but having those tiles on a desktop is a pain. You cannot arrange them as you would like, things don’t react as you would expect and getting to the new app you installed means scrolling all the time… Why not have at least the ‘dots’ under a window so you can go to another without having to scroll??
If you want a tablet you will buy a tablet. You don’t have a desktop or laptop for nothing.
If W8 stays as it is now I will definitely buy a Mac when my computer cannot be used anymore (I just bought it, with Windows Home Premium which is not all either. I think I will upgrade it to Ultimate!).

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From the article :-

There’s much more we still don’t know. In the demos, Microsoft made the point — repeatedly — that its Surface flip-down stand sounds like a “premium car door” when shut.

:lol::clapping:
That so reminds me of the Volkswagen advert that portrayed a cheap car salesman who’s special tactic was
To close the door on his cheap car and say “listen, it sounds just like a Volkswagen”.
What a sales clincher :rolleyes:

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{snip} the thickest operating system I’ve ever used. {/snip} :o: The first time I read that line I snorked! Did you mean to say it is the dumbest OS you’ve used, as in “as thick as 2 short planks” or feature rich? I hope you meant the first, {grin}! I tried the Win8 Preview on my PC and hated it. It is NOTintuitive if you have not used a touch device like a smart phone. It is actually counter-intuitive for PC users! I’ll have to wait to see how it looks and feels on a touch device. But I don’t fee encouraged. Once again MS has taken the stormtrooper (yes a “N” allusion) approach with UI changes. First they did it with the Ribbon “gooey” in Office. What a thick, phat, waste of space! It would have been trivial for them to include an option to revert to a menu but they didn’t. They could have even made it awkward to get to, but still have it there. The text based UI is a small part of the overall app. They got away with that, so now they are doing it with Metro. Again, all they had to do was maintain a “reverse compatibility” option with the old Win7 UI and they would have eliminated almost all of the resistance to it. But no, they are shoving metro down our throats sideways! It’s really sad. Almost all of the “legacy” structure is still there. When MS went from Win 3.1 to NT, people investigated and still found 1980’s era DOS code modules running in it. When Office 2010 abends, it fails over into a pre ribbon UI display. And the same is true of Win8. There have already been hacks published on how to recover the Start Button. Although I hear that MS has taken steps t suppress that one. It is sad that they have moved away from supporting the huge mass of loyal, or at least involuntary (“I had to use it at work…”) long term customers and “super users”, apparently in favor of chasing new customers. Personally, I’ve invested almost 25 years in their products. That is, I’ve invested my personal time and money (buying products and training) learning the products, and even becoming competent in many of them at an above average level of competence. And yet they blithely throw away my investment, apparently without a thought. I’m disappointed. PS: I REALLY HATE your input box. It keeps eating my paragraph breaks!

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I don’t think MS has to over take iPad sales to make a big dent. And I think they will. People keep talking about all the things you can do with an iPad and how many apps there are. Yet how many of those many thousands of apps are games, and lame ones at that? The vast majority of of iPads are used only for e-mail, web surfing, and playing a few games. I’m not bashing the iPad. Its a wonderful device. But the Apple hype has everyone thinking that its the end all be all. MS is going to be offering a compelling alternative with far more flexibility than Apple has ever been able to offer. And the aversion to the Start screen is nothing more than the fact that most people hate change. Most have long forgotten how they hated the “new Start Menu” when Win 95 came out. now they don’t want to give it up. Folks, take some time to use the Start screen. Its just a more graphical (and useable!) version of the same old Start Menu. Just because it doesn’t boot right to the desktop doesn’t mean that it’s in the way of anything.

I still run Windows software every day – and even Microsoft software – but I run the former in a Parallels virtual machine, and the latter (Microsoft Office), mostly in its native Macintosh version.

I always get a kick out this. “I hate Microsoft products, Apple is the bomb, and I’ll never look back. But oh yeah, because I really can’t do everything I need to with Apple products, I need to run Windows in a VM”. Really? This is exactly why MS has been the dominant desktop OS. I do agree though that MS has an uphill battle in entering the tablet market. I think they’ll succeed, though I doubt they will outsell Apple. At the very least they are going to make a huge dent. Keep in mind that no one thought the iPhone would be outsold, yet Samsung seems to have been giving Apple a run for its money.

Has the ribbon interface driven a lot of Office users to Open/LibreOffice?
Will the Metro UI drive a lot of Windows users to Linux?
(Currently installing Ubuntu 12.04 / OpenOffice / Mozilla Thunderbird/Firefox on an old Windows XP laptop)
or will the power of marketing just steamroller all but the technically competent?

I hated the ribbon at first. Now I’m kind of liking it. For home use its wasn’t the functionality of MS Office or useability that drove me to OpenOffice, it was cost. but for company use, we’ve found it hard in many areas to be able to replace MS Office with OOO.

Linux? Seriously? Its still requires far too much knowledge technical know how to be able to replace a Windows or Apple desktop/laptop for the average user. If anything people will get an Apple machine before even considering another flavor of Linux. So far Apple is the only one that has made Linux into something that the average user can easily work with.

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I hope MS succeeds with Surface and Win8, if for no other reason than to force Apple to make significant changes to iOS for the iPad.

iOS on iPhone is great. iOS on iPad is mediocre at best: No window tiling. Primitive multitasking and backgrounding. Truly lousy web browsers. There are any number of tasks I do daily on a real OS that I cannot do with iOS. Just one example: I often comment on various forums, and many commenting text input boxes do not work well at all on the iPad, even after years and hundreds of millions of iPad sales. Or, try creating or editing an email filter in gmail with an iPad. A 1 minute, easy task in a real web browser is a hit-and-miss chore with the iPad. The iPad is a toy device, and I want something real.

Apple needs competition and isn’t getting it from Android. I hope they get some from MS, but realistically expect they won’t.

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Here are the problems I see with Win8

1. Tablets and PC’s are two different devices. Look at how many people have large monitors attached to their desktops – often more than one. With large multiple monitors it makes sense to have several applications open simultaneously. This was always a feature of Windows going back to the earliest versions.

Tablets have small screens. There isn’t room for several apps simultaneously. Tablets don’t have full size keyboards. Tablets don’t have large-capacity storage. Tablets don’t have optical drives. Tablets don’t work off the AC mains.

A user interface which works well on a tablet is not suited to use with a large screen monitor connected to a PC with no touch capability. A user interface which works well on a PC doesn’t work well on a tablet.

With Win8 M$ forces the PC user to use the tablet UI. Why not make it optional.

2. There is a cost associated with change. It’s not a major worry for a home user but if you are a business with many PC’s to support, it becomes important.

3. Users dislike having things rammed down their throats. Remember New Coca-Cola?

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Please stop!

I strongly disagree with Woody here, first “What I’ve seen to date isn’t comforting for experienced Windows users”. I too have been using Windows 8 since the first preview and I intend to convert every machine I own to Windows 8 as soon as I am able to. I find the OS is so much easier to use and I consider myself a power user.

Next – “no Start menu” Really? What do you call the Metro screen? Come on, get with the program here, the start menu didn’t go away, it’s different and more functional. Have you ever seen how most office workers use a PC? Most of them stick links, if not the files themselves, on their desktops along with shortcuts to the programs they use most. Rarely do people even click “start”. Again – The Metro Screen IS the Start Menu!

Next up: “Windows RT doesn’t have a Windows 7–style desktop” Come on, really? It’s a tablet not a PC, show me an Android tablet that has a PC style desktop or please stop throwing stones, if you need to have a PC style desktop you need to buy an Intel based machine. The sooner people stop saying that RT is crippled by this and explain the difference the better off consumers will be.

Number 4: “Metro-style programs…must come from the Microsoft store”. I purchased an old Android tablet (because it was cheap) that is too old to be allowed access to the Android store making it difficult to get apps for it, most consumers couldn’t handle it. I wonder what percent of “Apps”, Apple, Blackberry or Android, come from the official “Store”, I’ll bet lunch it’s in the 90s. So the point is So What?

And 5: “Windows RT will be available only preinstalled on new tablets” Can I get iOS somewhere I don’t know about? Nuf said?

Number 6: “If you’re thinking of Surface as an iPad killer, that’s overreaching”, Actually I’m good with that.

On the whole I think Windows 8 is exactly where Microsoft needs to go. It’s a tablet when you need a tablet and it’s a desktop when it needs to be a desktop. The security on the PRO is consistent with PC security and applications business users are using today are compatible with the new device. I have watched organizations jam the square peg programs they are using on desktops into the round hole the iPad provides and in no case was it pretty, at best it took a ton of work that was really unnecessary, or will be once the Surface Pro is available.

Now that my rant is complete I have to add this disclaimer, was a Windows 3.0 user long before anyone else and certainly before 3.1, had Windows 95 deployed in my organization in 94 and for the life of me cannot see the attraction to the iPad.

Peter –

That’s GREAT! Seriously, I agree with almost everything you say. We disagree on some details, but by and large, your arguments are quite valid…

…Hey, run over to the Lounge and post this! (Post my response, too, if you like.) Windows has a huge installed base, and there’s lots and lots (and lots and lots) of room for debate.

– Woody

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I think many folks are missing the point about Win8. It has everything to do with paid for downloaded apps and subscription cloud computing. The Metro UI may work fine on a phone/tablet but it simply doesn’t do the job on a desktop/laptop.

MS have watched the $$$’s Apple make and want a slice of the action. Without wishing to offend anyone, Apple is viewed by many as a fashion accessory – hence the prices tend to be through the roof. I know of a few ex-Apple users that were fed up with being ‘locked down’ into the Apple way of doing things. So MS are going to alienate many of their existing customers especially the corporate ones.

It would have helped if they had called this new OS MS Metro or Windows Metro but calling it Win8 thereby giving the impression that it was an improvement over Win7 is a grave error. Sure MS will ship Win8 by the bucket load via the OEM’s but it will finish up being a Vista moment – with complaints coming in from all directions.

The only good thing is, if you’ve got a Win7 rig which is performing well then stick with it. That’s what I’ll be doing. I’ll also be buying up a few unlicensed copies of Win7 so I can upgrade my customers from Win8 to Win7 when they start complaining.

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While Microsoft is the industry leader and won’t crash overnight, it has taken on a huge task. Apple own the tablet market and what they don’t own is Android. MS have a long history of failure to move away from the classic PC. The most compelling argument for rolling out more Microsoft systems is that staff know the interface, business critical software runs on the platform, and there’s a huge legacy of PCs to be compatible with. Take that away and what is left?

Just look at Windows Phone in it’s various forms. Technically great in theory, I started several clients down that route after seeing the hyped presentations and listening to a few converts, but within a year all those phones were history – they just didn’t work as well as they should and the staff wanted blackberries and iphones, which worked better than they should.

Then look as Vista. A game-changer for Microsoft, supposedly the best, most radical change since Win 98. Exactly how many corporates switched from Win XP? Exactly how many have switched even now with Win 7 being a much more stable product?

There’s lots of competition in the traditional PC market and MS are way behind in the tablet market. The new systems won’t really run old software. I can put Linux on a PC for free and get access to cloud based computing, and I can get office apps compatible with MS files for free. If I have the choice of learning to live with Windows 8 or learning to live with Linux I’d go with the well-established, free product.

I hope I’m wrong, MS staff probably don’t deserve to lose their jobs, but I see this as the watershed, where MS could finally lose their dominant position. Too little innovation, too late, but too much non-innovating change. The savvy market chooses to go somewhere else and the non-savvy market get driven somewhere else. Double whammy.

Microsoft are living in interesting times.

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I believe this article will generate a lot of feedback by the Win 8 nay-sayers, just like 3 of the first 4 posts. Many people took a quick look, got turned off my Metro and left. That’s OK. It’s their prerogative to do so.

I have been using Win 8 100% of the time, on a conventional laptop with conventional keyboard and mouse (or touchpad if I choose) and no touch capacity since Win 8 CP was released. Before that I used Win 8 DP for testing. I do have my Win 7 Ultimate in a dual boot with Win 8 RP and have kept it up to date with all updates.

Win 8 has worked exceedingly well for me. I do not use the Metro UI. The Desktop UI has been fantastic. I have done some customizing to make this OS work the way I want it, but then again not too much. These customizations have been documented elsewhere so I will not go through them again.

I have noticed the faster OS as stated in the Windows Secrets article. This is most likely due to the better memory usage. All else is identical as my Win 7 OS as these are both dual booted on the same hardware. My Win 8 RP OS actually networks to my home network better than Win 7 and shares with my wife’s Win 7 HP and our desktop Win 7 HP better than my Win 7 OS. I do not use homegroup as this was even worse with my Win 7 than conventional workgroup. I was continually having problems with my Win 7 Ultimate talking with and sharing with my wife’s Win 7 HP. These problems have disappeared with my Win 8 RP and her Win 7 HP.

I have never used a Mac, but do read that Macs are much less customizable than my Win 7 or Win 8 RP. I am stubborn when it comes to changing the way things work. I like to “play” with things, and Mac does not allow that. I want ti use my PC the way I believe it should be used, not the way some developer believes it should work.

As far as Surface, I believe this is a giant step forward, at least with Surface Pro. I will not use an RT style tablet. I believe these are just play toys, the same as the iPad. If I’m going to spend my hard earned dollars on these style tablets, I need a workhorse, not a toy. The Surface Pro should make the OEM’s design a comparable tablet to compete. I believe consumers will be the winners with the Surface as competition is good for consumers.

Anyway, that’s my 4 1/2 cents (this was a little long for 2 cents, LOL)

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There’s lots of competition in the traditional PC market and MS are way behind in the tablet market. The new systems won’t really run old software. I can put Linux on a PC for free and get access to cloud based computing, and I can get office apps compatible with MS files for free. If I have the choice of learning to live with Windows 8 or learning to live with Linux I’d go with the well-established, free product.

If there was a way of getting any of the numerous Linux distro’s to work effectively with Adobe software then I’d be out of here. Unfortunately the Wine software will only run up to Adobe CS4 (I think) and InDesign is a no go.

There are apparently many under the hood improvements with Win8 but from my limited experience I never saw any speed improvements over my Win7 rig. Guess though it all depends on your hardware.

Where MS has fallen down is not offering a choice to the consumer of Classic UI or Metro UI during installation. But then MS are chasing after those paid for downloaded apps and subscription cloud computing. So they will alienate a huge number of existing folks imo.

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Has the ribbon interface driven a lot of Office users to Open/LibreOffice?
Will the Metro UI drive a lot of Windows users to Linux?
(Currently installing Ubuntu 12.04 / OpenOffice / Mozilla Thunderbird/Firefox on an old Windows XP laptop)
or will the power of marketing just steamroller all but the technically competent?

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Has the ribbon interface driven a lot of Office users to Open/LibreOffice?
Will the Metro UI drive a lot of Windows users to Linux?

There were plenty of negatives about the ribbon interface taking up screen real estate but MS refused to budge. I know of several organisations that are still using Office 03 (like myself), they will not budge but are seriously considering open source. The cash cow at MS is under threat so the new approach is to get everyone using the cloud!!

With Win8 MS are living in a bubble but don’t hold your breath that anything will change. No doubt, once launched we will get the normal ‘fastest selling Windows of all time’ junk. A great many of those will be via the OEM market. Then again, MS are droning on about how many folks have downloaded the CP Win8. Oh big deal, many have now deleted it and are firmly back on Win7.

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MS does NOT force a user to use the Metro UI at all. Just because it initially boots to Metro, it’s one click to go to Desktop, and stay there. Win 8 RT will force users to use Metro. Please see that distinction. If you are using a conventional desktop or laptop PC, then either Win 8 or Win 8 Pro will allow you to go to the Desktop with that one click. Win 8 RT will not be sold except installed on an ARM tablet.

With Surface Pro, you CAN connect to a larger screen if you wish. It will run Win 8 Pro, the whole thing not just a striped down RT version. Let’s see how Surface Pro works before saying a tablet will not work with a large monitor. I seem to remember reading that it will.

The other OEM manufacturers will be forced to design higher spec tablets similar to Surface Pro or fall by the wayside and just use Win 8 RT, which in my opinion is for playing with, just like the iPad. I cannot afford to buy a tablet just to play with. I need something I can actually do some work on.

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MS does NOT force a user to use the Metro UI at all. Just because it initially boots to Metro, it’s one click to go to Desktop, and stay there.

The problem you have with Win8 is first impressions. I never had a problem with Vista once I took the time to clear out some of it’s junk. Unfortunately it got a poor media reception although MS vastly underestimated the hardware required to run the OS to an acceptable level. Once the OEM’s started bundling there were many folks that didn’t want Vista even though they had not even tried it. So it was a downgrade back to XP – where they felt comfortable.

IMO MS is running on a fear factor here otherwise they would give the user the choice of Metro UI or Classic UI at installation time. In an article published here they give the reasons why the Start button was removed.

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/375550/why-microsoft-killed-the-windows-start-button

It is of course total rubbish. They were aware from the DP that most users preferred the Classic UI to Metro. Hence the option was deliberately disabled in the CP. Not defaulting to the in your face Metro UI where all the eventually to be paid for downloaded apps are based plus the push for subscription cloud computing would go against their future income revenue streams. So Metro it has to be. They’ve seen the amount of $$’s Apple earns and they want a slice of the action irrespective that it will potentially alienate a huge number of their existing user base.

Think we can all agree though that the next few months are certainly going to be interesting.

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I tend to disagree with what I understand as a negative towards windows 8. I have it on my Acer W500 tablet and LUV it. A little difficult yet. The desktop was much easier. However I’m always the one for adventure. I believe this OS is totally meant for Cloud and it is very comfortable. TTYL BB

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You have a tablet. That’s what the MUTRO Windoze 8 silly gui was designed for. One window open at a time only. Touch screen, no mouse, no real keyboard. The problem is with Intel and AMD based PC’s. We, their users, do have mice and real keyboards, and we need to have multiple windows open at once. I work on an email, a word doc, and a spreadsheet or powerpoint, constantly referring back and forth between windows. And I have lots of apps I use – and like. And not in MUTRO guise. And it is with us, the vast majority of Windoze users, that the problem is – not tablet, pad and phone users.

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Woody, your article mentions several times I believe, that the new M$ Surface tablets have a keyboard, as if this is a huge advancement over the iPad. There are quite a few 3rd party Bluetooth keyboards available for the iPad – should one really want/need one. As for Metro, it is ugly and very user unfriendly.. I will definitely NOT be upgrading. And everyone I have talked to about it, feels the same. It is a shame that M$ did not consult its users instead of trying to force fit an OS designed for tablets into a PC. Contrary to some opinions, the PC is not dead and will live on for many years to come.

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Woody, how can you objectively test, use, and review MS products if you are spending all of your time on your ipad, phone, etc… products? MS should have bought apple when it had the chance… I guess I will have to go elsewhere to find open-minded reports on MS products.

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Again, MS has and is consulting it’s users on the Win 8 design. That’s why they released Win 8 DP, CP and RP to such a wide selection of users, because they wanted the feedback. Surface comes with a keyboard, no need to get an aftermarket keyboard to make the OS useable to us conventional PC users. I do not like the Metro UI either. I simply click one button and move on to the Desktop. Simple.

I believe an individual should use and test an OS before making any decisions one way or the other. I have used Win 8 since it was first released in DP, and then have used Win 8 100% of the time since Win 8 CP was released, and continuing to do so with Win 8 RP. I have run it through it’s paces, but I use the Desktop UI. I still don’t understand the hang up with the Metro UI. Simply go past it to the Desktop. Win 8 RT will be the only version of Win 8 that requires a user to use the Metro UI. Conventional PC users need only see the Metro UI for a second or two. Big Deal!

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They certainly will be interesting. I do not plan on buying any of the Metro apps. In my opinion, Metro is made for playing. Win 8 RT and iOS are meant for playing. Real work, whether on conventional PCs or tablets designed for it, such as Surface Pro, will run Win 8 or Win 8 Pro.

I guess we also disagree in the fact that Win 8 does allow a choice of Desktop or Metro. You just make that choice as soon as Win 8 boots. If there were not a choice, the Desktop Ui would not be available at all as in Win 8 RT, and as I said I believe that’s just for playing.

I also started with Vista on our 2 laptops, with nary a problem. I did however upgrade to Win 7 when available due to a free upgrade on 1 of the laptops. Plus my wife works at a university that she receives heavy discounts so I got Win 7 Ultimate for about $15. Could not say no.

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Far too much “flying off the handle”‘ and jumping to [subjective] conclusions all based on an OS that has not even shipped yet. Just because information is limited and vague doesn’t give one free rein to formulate their own conclusions.

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Peter, I agree on most of what you said. The Win 8 RT OS is what I consider a play OS, but then again I also believe the iPad is for play. Neither of these tablets will be for work. The Surface Pro (and similar tablets) do appear as though they could be for real work, not just play. There are few tablets yet that are for real work. Let’s hope that improves as time goes on.

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Getting a tablet to do real work will be a difficult hardware juggling act imo simply by the fact that actually doing real work demands considerably more power.
Battery longevity in a compact form such as a tablet just does not exist yet for heavy work usage. Even watching a few movies on the iPad will deplete it relatively quickly in my experience.
One area where OEMs might do very well, in as far as windows 8 goes, is a laptop who’s screen can be removed and used as a tablet device and then returned for regular charging
and syncing purposes. It will also be very important that the software end of it not be energy cumbersome, but kept simple and functional for real world work related purposes.

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Yes, battery life is a variable that is not know at present, especially on the Surface Pro. The specs look very promising, but will it stay alive to accomplish real work? I would suspect that syncing to your more powerful laptop or desktop will be an important part of whether these and similar tablets are accepted for business use along with the battery life. One of Win 8 features that should help with this task is it’s syncing capability. Seems an easy chore.

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“Pause for a primer on Windows 8 versionsWindows RT doesn’t have a Windows 7–style desktop, and it doesn’t run the kinds of programs you’re running right now. You can run only Metro-style programs on a Windows RT computer, and they must come from the Microsoft store. Most of what we know about Windows RT has come from Microsoft and from demos on tablets (such as the recently announced Surface with a detachable keyboard) or on devices that look like Ultrabooks with docking keyboards”

This is actually a good thing in terms of the tablet. It will disallow much of the OEM crapware that one sees on desktop and laptop computers these days and force software choices back onto the user were it belongs in the first place.

I suspect that many software choices in this environment one will have to pay for, but there will undoubtedly be many more freeware choices as well. If the MS store is successful, the sheer force of Microsoft’s numbers will ensure plenty of variety in terms of software choices that conform to tablet computing environments.

Another issue on such a small low power device such as a tablet is that of software. The average user is typically your computing devices worst enemy when it comes to installing software. It’s commendable that MS has taken control of this and is forcing users to go through a MS store in order to get software. Software that will undoubtedly be checked and will need to conform to tablet and other specifications.

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Will Windoze 7 be the last usable version of Windows ever?

At least on PC’s? It’s obvious that 8 is meant for phones (that no one seems to want to buy) and pads (verdict still out) – and is not meant for normal PC users – or Pro’s, who don’t have small, touchscreens but have normal monitors with mouse and keyboard. When we buy a 17 or even a 23 inch screen, we don’t want just one ‘window’ to be open at once, we don’t want to have to all the way over to the far lower right corner to find a way to get into things, we don’t want to have to PIN stuff everywhere. We have a GUI we like – already. Sure, we like the new task manager, and we like the fixes under the hood. But we are not little children who only know how to touch things with our little fingers. And then there are our users, who’ve done things in a certain basic way since at least Win 95 . It was hard enough to teach them how to login and how to click on an icon – an icon we put where they want it and customized just for them. I’m guessing half of them won’t even be able to figure out how to find the absurdly hidden login page.

I guess what frustrates me the most is that MS has proudly promised to seek out and destroy any attempt to put a START button and classic interface back in. Why in h–l would they need to do that? All we’ve asked – and begged them, is to give us a choice. You want a touch screen interface designed for children and MCD’s cashiers and other POS users – fine. But let us choose to keep using the old interface. Really, it shouldn’t be a big deal.

Remember, this isn’t the incompetent mess that they named Vista, that they eventually fixed. This is a direct attack on PC users and their sensibilities. Even those of us who can’t stand the one button mouse of the MAC or the horrific Unity 3 interface of Ubuntu are being pushed away from anything new MS comes up with. And right now that may leave us with just Win 7. We have to hope that they do a SP with some of the fixes of 8 without the nonsensical GUI!

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There seem to be a couple of discrepancies between what you perceive and my experience with Win 8 RP. First, this beta OS works exceedingly well with my conventional PC’s. I do not have Windows Phones or a tablet PC.

Second I proudly use Classic Shell to replace my Start Orb. I do not need it, but wish to test it as well. This also works exceedingly well on my conventional PC’s

It’s very easy to choose to use the Desktop UI instead of the Metro UI. One click and you do not have to go back to Metro until the next time you boot.

Many people have found that pinning items to the taskbar is much quicker than drilling down in the Start Orb. If you are opening the same app several times per day or even hour, whatever, pinning that app to the Taskbar saves a lot of time.

The great thing about Windows is the vast way you can customize this OS to work the way you want it. Notice I said Windows, Not Win 8. Win 8 RP just continues this. You do this customization once and you have it forever. I do this with Win 7 as well. I pin shortcuts on the Taskbar. I have my email and browser shortcuts on the Taskbar.

I have found many of the extras in Win 8 RP , after using them once or twice, are actually easier to use than the conventional Win 7 methods. For example Win + X brings up the Power Users Menu which makes it much quicker to get to these operations than the conventional drilling to them on the Start Orb.

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To answer Ted;

1. Classic Shell. Microsloth has promised to block its use soon.
2. I don’t want the toddler / Mutro interface anywhere near my hard earned and or built PC’s. It’s tablet and phone junk and I don’t ever want to see it on a PC I own.
3. The so called desktop on Mutro is crippled and with major features hidden in odd spots. There is and was no need to hide things.
4. I like the Start ORB, and I like arranging icons on my desktop where I want them. And the items I use the most I put in the Quick Launch bar, which despite MS hiding it in Win 7 still works very nicely.
5. I don’t like PINS. I like to see the difference between an already open App and one that I MIGHT choose to use.
6. Having to remember Win this, and Win that, gets real tiring after a while. I’m content with Win R and Win E and Win L. But as my users taught me more then 20 years ago, most computer users can and will only memorize a few keystrokes – if any. Keystrokes have to out and about in plain site. I watched a year long project die because the person who did a project ahead of me didn’t understand that.
7. Try to remember the very old saying; If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!

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I guess you are a good candidate to stick with Win 7. There is nothing wrong with that. Win 7 is a mighty fine OS. You can choose not to update. Those that choose to update realize ahead of time that there are changes that might take a day or two to get used to. That is the choice we all have. By the way the same method to use the QL bar in Win 7 works very nicely in Win 8 RP as well. In a couple of hours you can modify the Desktop UI so you will not be able to tell you are on Win 8 RP rather than Win 7. You spent the time customizing Win 7 the way you want it, you can do the same with Win 8.

It is MS’s prerogative to take their OS in a different route. They did so when Win 95 was released. The outcry at that time was just as loud as it is now.

Some say why didn’t MS develop 2 new OS’s, one for conventional PC’s using the Desktop UI and one for tablets/phones using the Metro UI. Financially this just does not make sense. Developing a new OS takes years of work and a huge outlay of capital with no guaranty of making money. Can you imagine trying to develop 2 OS’s concurrently. Instead MS has decided to develop an OS that can be used by a variety of devices with just input/output changes on a device by device basis. The basic core files are the same. This seems to make perfect sense to me.

Like I said up front you do not have to choose to upgrade. Win 7 indeed “ain’t broke” and MS is not fixing it. They are developing a new multi=platform OS for the future. Win 7 will continue to be viable for many years. Heck, Win XP continues to be viable.

Your customers have a choice as well. If they choose Win 8, then they may look to you to provide support. Most PC techs. I know are looking forward to this as a new source of income stream.

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I gave up on Win8 CP mainly because IE10 would not work. I came to terms with the Start menu eventually, having been highly critical at first sight. However, I am a sucker for new technology and had learned from CP that Win 8 is substantially Win 7 with wings and all my peripherals and software worked well, so when RP was made available I upgraded from CP and am using Win8 x64 RP on my desktop PC as my operational system. IE10 now works, although I have decided to stick with Google Chrome, which I use with my Win7 system. Very happy with RP, using mouse and keyboard mostly, as I hate my beautiful 22″ touch-screen monitor being covered with greasy fingerprints! I have the Start menu organised to suit me and it works well. Also I turn off my computer now and save electricity because Win8 starts so quickly. That alone is a major attraction.
I have a smartphone to do all the app stuff and am not much interested in that side on my desktop PC. Also announcement of Win8 on a tablet sounds of possible future interest and gives Microsoft’s planning some credibility.
Furthermore, I have just found this article in ‘Blogging Windows’, which has made my day. Read it. http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/.

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I had not heard the reference to Win 8 RP is Win 7 with wings. I never had the problem with IE 10 as I set it to always open the desktop version. The Metro version lot allowing add-ons was a bummer.

I also spend most of my time on the desktop. I have no reason to go to the Metro UI. My PC is turned off each night as I do maintenance chores when the PC is booted.

We have discussed the web site you linked in several threads. It is very enlightening and makes Win 8 Pro a real possibility.

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Yes, Ted, I think the Win 8 Pro offer could be a winner. I just hope it includes backup to a networked HDD because Win 8 won’t allow me to use my NAS drive for this purpose and I have had to add an external HDD to my desktop PC. I had a Samsung 1TB SATA internal drive lying around, which was so cheap I couldn’t not buy it, if you know what I mean, and then found I could not spare one of my motherboard SATA connections to fit it. A couple of weeks ago I found that I could buy, for just over £30, a StarTech USB SATA and IDE Docking Station, which painlessly did the business. (Hope this may help others with the same problem).

Re the Metro GUI, I used ViStart with Win 8 CP to bring back the Start button, but with Win 8 RP I use the new Metro Start and much prefer it… so one up to Microsoft! If half the energy expended on trashing it was spent on understanding it I believe most critics would come round to appreciating it.

I generally switch my computers off at night, Ted, but now switch them off during the day too, when I take a break. 45 seconds to lock screen, enter my pin and wham!! the Start screen is there. The other day I swapped my laptop HDD for an SSD and, using Win 7 Ultimate, it starts so fast I now shut it down during the day too.. or at least close the lid because it resumes instantly.

Happy days! One of the bugbears of using computers has been addressed.

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