When did “Download updates but let me choose” change?

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Interesting question from EG. I haven’t been following along closely enough to give him a definitive answer. Do any of you know when (or even if) it h
[See the full post at: When did “Download updates but let me choose” change?]

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Nice example of the method that’s becoming pervasive in all walks of life :

1) Obfuscate,
2) Lie.

If Microsoft actually installs pre-checked items after reboot, while the option to “Download updates but let me choose whether to install them” has been selected, they are downright lying in the face of their users.

When has that become acceptable, not to mention legal ?

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Hmmm. You’re absolutely right. I updated to Windows 10 Pro last week and changed all the right settings. You can put all of the updates on hold, but you can’t select them. I just installed the whole trash can of updates.

Windows 10 doesn’t make up for the Windows 8 disaster – it just adds a whole new level of anger.

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I should have mentioned these systems are both running Win 7 Home Premium (x64) and to perfectly clear the choice in Windows update they had selected was “Download updates but let me choose whether to install them”, but the pre-selected updates installed automatically when they attempted to shut their systems down.

While speaking with a friend this morning he’s quite sure he also experienced this last week. He now plans to apologize to his wife tonight because he blamed her for clicking the “Install updates” button… she swears she never touched the Windows update panel let alone clicking on the install button. Theirs is also Win 7 Home Premium (x64).

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I don’t know if/when it changed, because before MS started the GWX push I has encouraged non-computer-savvy Users to leave Windows Update on Automatic. (I’ve had mine on manual since forever) But in the last half of last year I know several who thought that was “manual” and had updates installed when they didn’t want them. I believe I mentioned this on AskWoody back then when it came up.

What it means now is: “download the updates in the background and, if I don’t uncheck them, install them when I reboot”

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I recall this being a topic of discussion some time ago. Basically, the only way to keep Windows from applying the updates is to turn off the machine – don’t let it cycle down normally. I don’t recall, however, when that became the norm.

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My question is, why even open the door a crack for MS at this point?
On W7 machines…choose the setting “CHECK for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them” and the auto install problem goes away.

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Exactly right! Don’t give MS a chance to get its foot in your door. If you let them download the updates, they nag you until you install them. It’s best to just have them “check”, and then choose what you want or don’t want. It still works that way on my Win 7, but I never know from one day to the next what’s gonna happen!

Being 20 something in the 70's was far more fun than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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In all the time I have been reading AskWoody, I don’t recall EVER seeing a recommendation here to set Windows Updates to Download But Do Not Install. The recommended setting here has always been Check For Updates, But Do Not Download. Unless I am hallucinating, this has always been the recommendation around here.

And with good reasons.

Now on Windows 10 Pro on all my machines, I simply use the Metered Connection trick. So far, so good, except when there’s a Flash Player update. You can’t get Standalone Windows 10 installers for those anymore.

Of course, if we don’t use IE 11 or Edge, Flash Player can’t hurt us, right?

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That is, as long as we keep Flash Player updated (and preferably blocked) in our browsers which we do use (in my case, Firefox or Chrome).

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Something else I’ve noticed about Windows Update settings lately, on my machines and others I take care of, that might need checking out: If you set “check for updates but let me decide whether to download or install them,” it doesn’t always check for updates anymore. There is a button that says “You should always check for the latest updates for your computer” in a lot of cases and you have to click on “check for updates” and wait for it to search.

Has anyone else experienced this?

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Louis- You are underestimating the tenacity of MS.

Just bought a new W7pro laptop. I made that setting before I ever went online. “Do not download, etc. – let me choose.”

Once online, I uninstalled the updates known to be W10 and telemetry that were already there and then carefully checked updates and hid all that re-appeared – every time.

The hidden one that downloaded itself(could be more)was KB2952664. I suddenly have the nag screen now (and I thought that was KB3035583).

Do not trust your computer settings – as it appears I’m not the only one who is having MS disregard the settings and downloading anyway. My settings still say “no”.

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Woody:

We use laptops at home, 2 running Win 7×64 and one Vista x64 (don’t laugh!) It’s not convenient to shut down in the normal way and risk having Windows install updates when you’re trying to put the laptop in a briefcase, etc.
Quite a while back, I put “shutdown” icons on all machines which call the shutdown.exe file.
Better control of what’s being discussed here. We run user accounts most of the time, but better safe than sorry.

Thanks for all you do Woody,

Tom

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THIS (“CHECK for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them”) is the correct way to do it. You get the notice in the try and then you review them and download them when YOU (and not MS) are ready. I have always used this technique. Why let the system ever download anything if you “may decide not” to authorize installation? Maybe it is my old timer remembrance of 180MD HDDs or metered dial-up modem connections, but I always wanted to review what was downloaded first. The ONLY applications I have ever allowed to auto updates were AV programs and Steam.

Now with the GWX debacle for us Win7 and Win8.1 users I am beyond happy I did that, although this reviewing all the updates and related documentation (or not as lately) is getting old. As a result my older and slower machines (Win7 netbook, P4 XP box, and AMD Athlon box) have been resurrected with carefully selected Linux distros, and only the i7 gaming boxes remain on Windows 7-64 Pro.

I did get burned by the initial KB3035583 and KB2952664, but after researching (and finding this site, among others) all the GWX and spyware ‘user enhancements’ has been removed. I just installed them at first never imagining that MS would try to force an upgrade by deception and compromising performance with constant reporting (snooping).

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I have noticed this, but not consistently. However I also notice that it has checked for and installed updated MS Security Essentials definitions.

On patch Tuesdays, I have sometimes seen nothing until I manually activate a check, but the last check says it did it an hour earlier in the day. I assumed that was just due to geographical rolling releases.

It may also be a factor with me not applying all the Windows Update “recommended” patches for WU that are Win10 or GWX-related.

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@Cheryl,

You need to install GWX Control Panel.

http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

And make sure when you’re in the “Change Settings” section of Control Panel, you click “OK” at the bottom of the screen when you choose “CHECK for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them” from the drop down menu.

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I still have Windows 7 Pro

I won’t be moving up the tier to the next Windows version.

I will be moving to Linux.

Enough of the corporate crap!

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I’d disagree, Bill.

IMO the BEST way to do it (for pre-10 Windows) is not only to deconfigure the settings to Disable the Windows Update service entirely.

Then, on regular intervals, make the time to reconfigure and check, assume you feel it’s necessary to check for updates at all any more – and I question that more and more as time goes on. Microsoft is way beyond turning the corner to acting just like what we used to consider malware. Never forget what a “PUP” is (look it up).

And beyond deconfiguring the ability for an older system to take an update without your intervention it’s not a bad idea – if your inner geek wants to learn a whole new realm of things – to set up a deny-outgoing-by-default firewall as well. But be prepared for what you’ll learn. Yes Virginia, it IS that bad.

When you learn, for example, that a more or less stock system regularly contacts ctldl.windowsupdate.com for both certificate management AND updates, you’ll really start to wonder about Microsoft.

-Noel

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That should have read,

IMO the BEST way to do it (for pre-10 Windows) is not only to deconfigure the settings BUT ALSO to Disable the Windows Update service entirely.

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I also have Windows 7 Pro and am desperately trying to keep it as long as I can (ideally, to 2020 as promised). The more I read about Windows 10 the less I like it.

As far as I can see, the problem is even worse than you are reporting. As of yesterday my automatic updater is totally turned off (NEVER check for updates), and yet when I turned on my computer today KB2952664 had reappeared in my installed updates with TODAY as the installation date. How is this even possible? I turned the automatic updater off because changing the setting to get it to notify before downloading and installing updates was doing absolutely nothing: KB3035583 and KB2952664 just kept popping up as soon as I restarted my machine. Now it seems even turning it off doesn’t turn it off! The settings are just there for show, looks like.

Thanks for all the information and help dealing with major Microsoft weirdness which is making me angry and anxious!

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I have the same problem. My updater is turned off entirely; it’s not even supposed to check for updates — and still I received KB2952664 today.

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I’ve had Win-7 Home Premium X64 for several years now, and have always had the update setting at “check but let me choose when to download/install” and I’ve never had a problem with unwanted downloads being installed, not even any of the GWX garbage, and this includes the most recent set of patches when Woody went to Defcon 4 just before the most recent set of patches came out.

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I noticed that on Feb 14 too. Windows downloaded 52 updates without my permission, Fortunately windows 10 wasn’t amongst them-phew.

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@Noel,

I agree with your idea – for the past 8 or so months, I’ve had Windows Update turned off/shut down as much as possible, and simply manually check it at the end of each month, after exploring online reviews/guidance (from the wonderful Woody and others) about that month’s “Patch Tuesday” updates.

I don’t want to even let them get their foot in the door with the promised only-checking-for-new-updates-then-letting-me-decide-whether-to-download-and-install-them, because I don’t trust them not to push the boundaries and not accidentally-on-purpose to go farther than they had led us to expect they ever would.

It’s a pain though – stressful for the non-techie sort of person to get to grips with the terminology and structure of the whole thing, and so time-consuming to research and keep track of everything.

Fortunately, despite my huge knowledge gaps and lack of interest in the subject matter, I am awfully stubborn and naturally nit-picky/precise, so I’m given them a decent fight so far…
but I know that they would always eventually win any tussle they wanted to have with my computer/me, and it will undoubtedly be a losing proposition for me in the long run due to the ending of support for Win 7 in a few years, even if I am lucky with the mechanical lifespan of my computer.

By 2019, I hope there is an economical, relatively-non-steep-learning-curve, reasonably-“private”, non-Win-10 alternative that ordinary consumers can move to from Win 7 — for my situation at the moment, moving to Macs or Linux just seems to be much more than I would want to wrap my head around, or afford.

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I think some are misunderstanding me. I know which setting “should” be used, I have my own set to never check and do it manually.

What I’m getting at is BOTH of these people have always called me previously a week or so after Black Tuesday to find out which ones were safe and then they’d click the “Install updates” button after selecting the ones they wanted. Last week was the first time either of them experienced the updates installing without any intervention from them.

The choice still states “Download but LET ME CHOOSE WHETHER TO INSTALL THEM. As I stated, both of them are now set to just check and not download… but what happened to the option to choose?

There is no other description for this than flat out deception!

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Instead of completely disabling the Windows Update in services, I just changed it to Manual instead of Disabling.
That way it seems you won’t have to go back and enable it in Services each time you need to actually install updates.
So far this seems to have worked fine for me.

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D – I don’t know if you’ve tried Linux yet, but you have the option of try before you (don’t) buy. You can download a Linux distro and put it on a CD/DVD/USB drive, then boot from it and play with it to make sure you can function in it. I did that with a couple of distro’s. Then, when you do find one you like, you can set up your machine to dual boot between it and Windows 7.

That’s how I run 2 out of my 3 systems at home – a desktop and laptop each running Linux Mint/Win7, and the other with only a Linux setup (though I’m considering pulling out one of my XP setup disks and making that dual boot between Lubuntu and XP but staying off the Internet with XP).

Personally, I find Linux Mint to be as easy to use as Windows XP/7 with a few minor adjustments. I’ve only rarely had to use Terminal (the command-line interface), and even then it was to follow instructions for installing software that I got from a web site (all I had to do was copy/paste the command from the web page – how easy is that?).

Just my 2 cents. As they say, YMMV. But at least you can try it with no commitment.

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That’s because Microsoft occasionally releases updated versions of KB2952664 (which recently became revision V16) and KB3035583 (which was revised early December 2015).

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@Cheryl: You need to uninstall both the KB2952664 and KB3035583 updates from the Installed Updates List and (run GWX control panel) AND reboot if you want to stop the nags.

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@rc primak:

“You can’t get Standalone Windows 10 installers for those anymore.”

I beg to differ. I actually got them by visiting the Microsoft Update Catalog site with Internet Explorer and manually downloading the latest flash player installers for Win8.1 and Win10.

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I’m sorry, I don’t quite understand though. Why (indeed, how?) was it downloaded to my computer when my settings were set to not download anything at all, period.
I uninstalled it last night and it was back today despite said setting.
(Where do you see the version number? In my list of installed updates that column is blank for this update)

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Hi, I’d like to know how you do this, since changing the setting in Windows Update itself to NEVER download updates doesn’t stop it from downloading KB2952664 every single day.
You mean the services tab in Task Manager? I see wudfsvc (which is running). That sounds like Windows Update — is it? I don’t see a “manual” choice — I see what is probably “Stop the service” or “Go to the process” (my Windows is in French, just to make this all a bit easier). Where would I find “manual”?

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OK, thanks, but I still don’t understand why (or, indeed, how) it’s getting downloaded to my computer when my settings are set to never download anything at all. I uninstalled it last night and it is back again today.
Incidentally, where do you see the version number? In my list of installed updates that column is blank for this update.

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I’m interested to know how you do this, since changing the setting in WU itself, even to NEVER check for updates, has not prevented KB2952664 from reinstalling itself every blessed day. Do you mean the services tab in Task Manager? I see wuauserv which says it’s Windows Update; I also see wudfsvc which sounds like Windows Update but says it’s Windows Driver Foundation — both are running. If I right-click on them the only two options I see are stop service and go to process (I think; my Windows is in French so that might not be the exact English wording). Where would I find a manual setting?

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(sorry about the double reply before)
On a Microsoft forum I saw that a couple people had asked about this very thing in 2012 and again in 2014. In response, Microsoft cited the End User License Agreement:
“From the EULA
b. The software will from time to time perform a validation check of the software. The check may be initiated by the software or Microsoft. To enable the activation function and validation checks,
the software may from time to time require updates or additional downloads of the validation, licensing or activation functions of the software. The updates or downloads are required for the proper functioning of the software and may be downloaded and installed without further notice to you.” (this was in 2014 and I don’t know which Windows the user had, but I presume this language is still there in the agreement I signed).
Is this what’s happening in my case? Is KB2952664 required for validation, licensing or activation of Windows 7?

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@Anonymous,

I don’t know if my version of Windows 7 is the same as your version of Windows, but this is how I get to the “services” area of my computer (where I, too, had set my Windows Update to operate “manually” only):

1. open up the “marble” orb thing in the lower right-hand corner of the screen (the one with the windows 4-color flag in it)
2. choose “computer management” from the list of options that show up there (I think I had manually put this in my list of options when I first got my computer, so if you don’t see “computer management” in the list that pops up on your computer after you click the “marble” orb, you can probably type the words “computer management” into the “search programs and files” box, press enter, and be taken to it
3. once in “computer management”, go to “services and applications” and then go to the “services” area and click — now you will see all the services you can alter by going into their “properties” and choosing if they should be “automatic”, “automatic (delayed)”, “manual”, or “disabled”.
4. however, be careful if switching anything around in “services”, because altering some of the services apparently can mess up important processes of the computer, if the user isn’t careful

(I hope it’s relatively easy to find the equivalents in the French-language Windows!)

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Wow – this is strange —

While I had my “services” area open in order to write the above response to “anonymous”,

I took a quick look at my “Windows Update” service settings, and it’s now set on “automatic (delayed)” and shows as having started on my computer.
However, I am pretty sure that I had set this service to “manual” last year, when all the problems began with the invasive/wily Windows updates.

When I go to my “Windows Update” now, I see that it’s (still) completely turned off and says that it hasn’t checked for updates since the middle of last month, when I had manually checked it.
In the settings under “choose how Windows can install updates”, I had chosen “never check for updates (not recommended)”, and that is still the setting now.

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@Carol,

In Windows Updates, in the settings area, under “choose how Windows can install updates”, did you select “never check for updates (not recommended)” — yet it still unilaterally downloaded the kb2952664 update today on your computer?

“Never check for updates (not recommended)” is the setting that my Windows Update has been set on for many months, and it still is not checking and not downloading anything unless I manually tell it to check (which I do about once a month).

I would be quite worried if Microsoft is ignoring that selection now, and barrelling on through to deposit their updates on the computer.

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Anonymous… Click the Start button and type in “services” (without the quotes). At the top of the list click on “Services” and scroll to near the bottom of the list of alphabetically sorted Services.

Double click the Windows Update Service and you’ll see the Startup type choices in the center area. Change it to your choice, click OK, close the Services panel and restart your computer. I wouldn’t bother wasting time on trying to Stop the service as more often than not that will fail… just restart the computer after making the Startup type change and it won’t be running after the restart.

If you change it to Disabled you’ll have to re-enable it again before you can check for updates.

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Pardon me for interjecting here (I try to keep a low profile!), but I don’t recommend that you turn off Windows Update Service. Just set WU to “Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them,” and wait for the all-clear here.

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Thanks Woody, but the problem is that I had set my Windows Update that way (on your recommendation) and it did not listen to me. The updates were just getting installed anyway. So I turned the automatic updater right off (or so I believed) and KB2952664 just keeps on reinstalling itself regardless. If I uninstall it I see it disappear from the list, but the next time I check installed updates (even just closing it and opening it again immediately) it is back with a more recent installation date.
The installation does not appear in the installation history (which does however claim to have successfully installed a couple of optional updates to Windows Security Essentials which I can’t find in the list of installed updates, so now I am totally confused about the relation between the two lists).
I find it very disturbing to be receiving updates with the automatic updater turned completely off. People here keep blithely recommending the setting which OUGHT to work, when I am at a more drastic setting and it is having no effect. What gives?

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Okay, this is answered. Sorry for the double post (anonymous and under my name); I’ve got it figured out now.

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Thanks, Ed, this seems nice and clear; I’ll give it a try!

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Yes, that is the setting I have set Windows Updates to and I was convinced it was being ignored (I am less sure now: read on), because KB2952664 keeps reinstalling itself.

In my latest intervention, after setting Windows Update to manual startup (thanks to the good instructions I found here), uninstalling the update with my Internet connection turned off and then restarting my computer, it once again appeared in the list of installed updates. In these circumstances it seems to me that the update could not have been downloaded but must have been reinstalled from somewhere it is hiding on my computer. I found an article (http://www.microsoft-questions.com/microsoft/Windows-XP/36247549/where-do-the-windows-update-files-go-while-awaiting-install.aspx) about where Windows updates awaiting installation are stored. Under Windows>Download I have a file dated today from the time I powered up and one dated February 14, which is when I first started uninstalling updates from the list. But in fact I don’t know when KB2952664 was downloaded to my computer, so it could be in any of the files. Also, those are just the “loose” files — there are also ten folders with meaningless names, many of which were last modified on Feb. 13.

Is it safe to just delete these files?

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Indeed, the fact that there are no files in Windows>Software Distribution>Downloads that have been modified since February 14 very possibly suggests that my choice HAS been respected and that WU is NOT downloading files. Something was downloaded this morning, however.

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If you found these links, next time they appear after an announced Flash Player update, could you post the direct download links here for Windows 10 users. I really did not like having ton install CU9 to get the current Flash Player updates. At least a Catalog reference would be nice. My own Catalog searches resulted in downloading installers which said they were not for Windows 10.

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I used to be able to delete KB2952664 – I say “used to” because the latest is the 17th or 18th version and it seems to be changed with each reissue. Through the fall of 2015, I could uninstall KB2952664. But somewhere around December last, I ran into two computers that seemed to reinstall it every time I uninstalled it and rebooted (I reported this on AskWoody somewhere back then). It was reissued 10/14/15 and that may be the culprit.

Anyway, my theory is this: You can’t delete/uninstall something that is running/open. If it’s in RAM and on the HDD, and you delete the HDD occurrence, it can reinstall itself. This is how some viruses work. I believe you are not really getting rid of the thing because it is running/open. It simply reinstalls itself and shows back up in the installed updates with the current date. I don’t think it is being downloaded over and over.

I think MS may be up to something new in addition to the GWX app push and this may be part of it.

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No, that was the conclusion I had come to as well, from its behaviour (reinstalls even when I’m not online). After reading more about it I see that quite a few people are having the problem and some say they have succeeded in removing it from their computers, by searching for and deleting its multiple packages; one guy even said he deleted mentions of it from the registry. There are command lines provided to do this but I haven’t had the guts to embark on that process yet (trying to get some work done!). GWX Control Panel gives me a clean bill of health, so I’m sort of telling myself everything is okay. But I will eventually try to remove its packages (not sure about fooling around in the registry; seems a bit daunting!). I told the developers of GWX Control Panel that this update was on my computer and their software didn’t flag or (what I was hoping for) remove it. They didn’t seem overly concerned and said something about respecting my Windows Update settings. But I just want it off of my computer, and soon!

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I had 1 similar and 1 worse experience with my computers installing Windows updates without asking. A laptop on which I was preparing to re-install Windows 8.1 had been sitting for a few days, so when I turned it on this evening (2/24), it began to download and install updates. I admit that I had not recently checked the setting (my child’s computer), so I’m partly to blame, but I was surprised to see that I could not stop or delay the update process once it began (without pulling out the battery).

In a second situation, I have a desktop running Windows 7 32-bit and I’m the only user, so nobody else would change the update settings. My choice of update options for years has been to “Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them”. However, when I turned off my machine last Thursday (2/18), it gave the warning to not shut down while updates were installed. I was frustrated, so I went to bed and left the machine alone until the next evening. When I re-started the machine, it again told me that it was finishing update installation. I was perplexed that this had happened, so I checked control panel, looking to see what updates had been installed. NONE WERE LISTED! I even checked to see if any restore point had been created, and none had.

Can you, or anyone, please provide insight into what might have happened?

Thanks for all you do, Woody. I’ve seen a lot of strange things, but this sort of nonsense is becoming almost unbearable.

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That’s weird. I haven’t a clue, although it sounds like something changed your settings to “Download but don’t install.” That’s what the shutdown behavior is all about.

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I just refreshed an old computer from factory recovery media through June 2016 security updates, including SP1 and “Don’t call it SP2”. I also installed the newer version of MSE. Now this computer wants to install updates on every shutdown unless Windows update is set to “Never check for updates”. The “Check but let me choose whether to download and install them” option queues updates to be installed by clicking the normal shutdown button.

I wish all of our business apps were Linux compatible. I would switch the whole company over in the blink of an eye.

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