Just got this from reader OC: Today I received from MS new updates for my Win 7 Pro, x64, SP1 (to be installed when I decide to), for .NET 4.6.4, 4.61
[See the full post at: What’s happening with Win7 .NET updates?]
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What’s happening with Win7 .NET updates?
Home » Forums » Newsletter and Homepage topics » What’s happening with Win7 .NET updates?
- This topic has 57 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 6 months ago.
AuthorTopicViewing 23 reply threadsAuthorReplies-
anonymous
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Noel Carboni
AskWoody_MVPOctober 21, 2017 at 5:20 pm #139701Anything for Windows 8.1?
If it’s at all helpful, this is what I saw offered a week ago…
https://askwoody.com/forums/topic/patch-tuesday-patches-are-out-2/#post-136883
-Noel
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anonymous
Guest
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Seff
AskWoody PlusDrBonzo
AskWoody PlusOctober 21, 2017 at 3:01 pm #139679@OC: 73, 77, and 80 are September Rollups (i.e., security and quality). Together they comprise KB4041083. I don’t believe you were taken to what you call “86” because there is no KB 4040986 (google it and see). I’m guessing you were taken to 4041083. If you scroll through that page I think you’ll see references to the 73,77, and 80 updates. Also if you go to the Update Catalog either from the aforementioned page or directly and enter KB4041083, and then put it in your basket and try to download, I think you’ll suddenly see 3 or 4 links some of which will be for 73, 77, and 80 (one link for each)
At least that’s what happened for me when I installed .NET updates a couple weeks ago from the Update Catalog.
Hope this helps.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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PKCano
ManagerOctober 21, 2017 at 3:27 pm #139687Those separate patches are for different versions of .NET. In the Catalog, if you click on the title of the Rollup (instead of the “download” button), then click on “More information” in the box that pops up, it will take you to a page that tells you which patch goes with which version.
1 user thanked author for this post.
anonymous
Guestabbodi86
AskWoody_MVPOctober 21, 2017 at 4:34 pm #139696Too much overthinking 🙂
currently there are 3 .NET Rollups that would be offered in WU
2017-09 Security and Quality Rollup (KB4041083) – Important
2017-10 Security and Quality Rollup (KB4043766) – Optional/Recommended
2017-10 Preview of Quality Rollup (KB4042076) – Optional.NET 3.5.1 Security Rollup KB4040980 is the same included in all three
.NET 4.5.2 Security Rollup KB4040977 is the same included in all threeonly .NET 4.7 update differs
KB4041083 -> KB4040973
KB4043766 -> KB4043764
KB4042076 -> KB4041778-
alpha128
AskWoody PlusOctober 21, 2017 at 9:56 pm #139753currently there are 3 .NET Rollups that would be offered in WU
2017-09 Security and Quality Rollup (KB4041083) – Important
2017-10 Security and Quality Rollup (KB4043766) – Optional/Recommended
2017-10 Preview of Quality Rollup (KB4042076) – Optional – abbodi86Yes, I’m seeing the later two as unchecked optional updates in Windows Update.
I don’t see the first one as I installed in on 9/29/2017.
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walker
AskWoody Lounger -
anonymous
GuestOctober 28, 2017 at 8:03 pm #141502About this:
2017-09 Security and Quality Rollup (KB4041083) – Important
2017-10 Security and Quality Rollup (KB4043766) – Optional/RecommendedAnd this:
.NET 4.5.2 Security Rollup KB4040977 is the same included in all three
… not true. 4040977 inside 4043766 has changed (I compared them). WUA does not force to install it, its just some non binary problem (some installer language confusion, not affecting installed binaries).
BobT
AskWoody Loungeranonymous
GuestOctober 21, 2017 at 7:03 pm #139723anonymous
GuestOctober 21, 2017 at 7:23 pm #139729Earlier today, I did exactly what PK Cano advises, and ended up, after being redirected to migrate from page to page in the MS Web site, at a place where each of the three patches were all said to be for .NET 4.7. So: all roads led to 4.7, although the three .NET patches were described in the initial “More Information” MS site as being for different versions of .NET, just as explained in the OC posting. Except they are not, or are they?
The mystery thickens…
And I do not want to install 4.7…
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abbodi86
AskWoody_MVP
anonymous
GuestOctober 21, 2017 at 9:28 pm #139748Great! I just googled “kb4040980” and following the link to MS took me to the MS Web page where this is described as:
“Security and Quality Rollup for .NET Framework 3.5.1 for Windows 7 SP1 and Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1 (KB 4040980)”, and when I clicked the link to the Catalogue, it landed me in a page from where I could download one of three flavours, one for a different type of OS, of the “**Preliminary** Quality and Total Wonderfulness Rollout” (stars are mine), well, maybe with a few less words in the name, for several .NET versions including 4.7!
anonymous
GuestOctober 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm #139773Final update on the ongoing “.NET update and I” story:
I decided to hide the update!
Now my plan is as follows:
If black hats take advantage of some bug in the unpatched .NET and kidnap my computer, or am I otherwise seriously inconvenienced, I shall:
(a) Reformat the disk, and install some LINUX distro (probably Debian) in my PC. While I am still adapting the new OS to my needs and tastes, I shall continue doing my work with my Mac.
(b) If (a) proves impracticable, then I shall remove the hard disk and take the rest of the machine to some place where they take care that it is responsibly and ecologically disposed of. And shall continue doing my work and the rest of it on my Mac.
Because life is too short.
1 user thanked author for this post.
GoneToPlaid
AskWoody LoungerCybertooth
AskWoody PlusOctober 21, 2017 at 11:42 pm #139781This is all so confusing and my brain’s RAM is overloaded with KB numbers and similar-sounding .NET patch names. WU is offering my Windows 7 PC the following:
- 2017-09 Security and Quality Rollup for .NET Framework 3.5.1, 4.5.2, 4.6, 4.6.1, 4.6.2, 4.7 on Windows 7 and Server 2008 R2 for x64 (KB4041083)
- 2017-10 Security and Quality Rollup for .NET Framework 3.5.1, 4.5.2, 4.6, 4.6.1, 4.6.2, 4.7 on Windows 7 and Server 2008 R2 for x64 (KB4043766)
Just the facts, ma’am: Can someone tell me — without a lot of explanation or mumbo-jumbo, please — what the current recommendation for patching is with respect to the above two .NET updates?
I’ve been Group B, but I’m ready to throw my hands up and join Group W. Although honestly, Group L (for Linux) is fast approaching.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Vols and Jezuz
AskWoody LoungerOctober 22, 2017 at 1:29 am #139805Fellow Group B member here. I could be wrong, but I believe the current advice with both KB4041083 and KB4043766 is to wait until we are at MS-DEFCON 3 or higher and then apply them.
For now, I think it is safe to leave them as unchecked in Windows Update, since we would be installing them at the next safe patching opportunity. The safest thing would probably be to hide them for now, then unhide them when it is time to patch.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Vols and Jezuz
AskWoody LoungerOctober 22, 2017 at 9:41 pm #140040To follow up, KB4041083 was the .NET Rollup that caused issues last month, with MS recommending to uninstall it and instead install the Security-only update. Now that same MS article is recommending the KB4043766 Rollup to fix rendering issues from KB4041083. As the Rollups are cumulative, there is no point in installing KB4041083 when we get to MS-DEFCON 3+ if you are going to be installing KB4043766, so you should hide KB4041083.
Vols and Jezuz
AskWoody LoungerOctober 22, 2017 at 3:09 am #139816Separate question: are .NET rollups cumulative?
I.e., would installing the October rollup KB4043766 make the September rollup KB4041083 unneeded?
Or are they like Group B Security-only patches, which are not cumulative? Thanks
Edit: Answer found. .NET “Security and Quality” rollups are cumulative, while .NET Security-only updates are not. I think this mirrors the same behavior as the normal Windows rollups/Security-only updates.
BrianL
AskWoody LoungerOctober 22, 2017 at 9:14 am #139851Am using an antique version of Windows 7 SP1 x64 (Oct 2009). I installed Net 4.7 on June 14th this year. Have been getting update to that Net and also combined updates to3 other net versions since then. They are installed and I have not encountered any noticeable problems.
4 users thanked author for this post.
anonymous
GuestOctober 22, 2017 at 12:22 pm #139899Cybertooth:
In my own experience (at least yesterday) no matter what “kb” you choose to install, that is not what you will find when you finally reach the MS Catalog “Download” page clicking on all the correct links along the way. What you’ll find there, surprise, surprise, will be updates with different kb numbers and contents from the ones you were after. And all include .NET 4.7, the one reported as causing problems, along with whatever else they are supposed to be for.
MS seems to be playing some kind of silly game with the .NET update names it is offering.
The destination you finally reach is not the one you saw written on the road signs along the way.
The Security Only update for my Windows 7 x64, SP1 and the IE11 Cumulative update, on the other hand, were not affected by this problem when I installed those some days ago: the files I found and downloaded corresponded in both number and name to the ones I was after, and have had no problems with them, so far… at least that I have noticed.
2 users thanked author for this post.
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Cybertooth
AskWoody PlusOctober 22, 2017 at 5:31 pm #139976Thank you, in that case I’ll stick to the updates that are billed only as “security.”
anonymous
GuestOctober 22, 2017 at 6:05 pm #139987I may have lost track, or not paid attention, or maybe this is Woody’s original point in this topic: Is there anything currently wrong with .NET4.7 in the Win7 setting?
1\ earlier this summer .NET4.7, developed for ‘better’ systems was backported to Win7
2\ Microsoft failed to document the perquisite D3D compiler
3\ 1+2 creates problems
4\ D3D included in September SMQR (?), and October etc. cummulativeQUESTION- does that mean we have reached
5\ no more problems, .NET4.7 is now the preferred less vulnerable package with latest protections
OR
5b\ Win7 lacks the inherent ability, and .NET4.7 ‘is not the droid you are looking for’-
anonymous
GuestOctober 23, 2017 at 7:42 pm #140320anonymous #139987 wrote:
Is there anything currently wrong with .NET4.7 in the Win7 setting?I’m equally curious about this mysterious .NET v4.7 “issue”. I keep seeing repeated remarks at AskWoody that .NET v4.7 causes problems in Win 7, but w/o any elaboration of what the problems might be.
I searched through the AskWoody domain, as well as undertook an internet search about the said .NET 4.7 problems, but so far have not found anything of note — other than .NET 4.7 installation being previously blocked on Win 7 due to a missing D3DCompiler_47.dll (which Win 7 users have to install first, ref: KB 4019990).
In fact, before I saw the multiple AskWoody’s remarks about the so-called .NET v4.7 problems, I already installed .NET v4.7 in July 2017 on Win 7 x64 SP1 (2011 version). D3DCompiler_47.dll was already explicitly listed as a pre-requisite on .NET v4.7’s installer page back then, so I didn’t run into any install-block.
To date, I have not encountered anything unusual in my Win OS or .NET-dependent apps. And it seems likewise for user BrianL (reply #139851) on his Win 7 x64 SP1 (2009 version).
Perhaps the .NET v4.7 problems pertain to Win 7 RTM ? Or might the whole situation have arisen from some misunderstanding somewhere, & is actually a non-issue afterall ?
Vols and Jezuz
AskWoody LoungerOctober 22, 2017 at 9:49 pm #140041Am I understanding this correctly: the monthly .NET Security and Quality Rollups, starting with KB4041083, install .NET 4.7 even if the user only has 4.6.2 or lower currently installed?
If so, then this is not the behavior of the Security-only patches, which too have have started including .NET 4.7 in the titles. I have KB4040957, “Security Only update for the .NET Framework 4.6, 4.6.1, 4.6.2, and 4.7 for Windows 7 SP1”, installed, yet the registry and Raymondcc .NET Detector tell me that I do not have .NET 4.7 installed.
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abbodi86
AskWoody_MVPOctober 22, 2017 at 10:59 pm #140052It was actually started with KB4032113 (July 2017 Preview), but yes, KB4041083 is the first Security Rollup to have the merged 4.6-4.7 update
It doesn’t install 4.7 or change your 4.6.x version totally
but the updated binaries and fixes you get are based on 4.7
so you will have sort of a frankenstein .NET 😀It’s the same behavior
but Security-only patches just update small part of .NET binaries, then the impact will not be big2 users thanked author for this post.
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Vols and Jezuz
AskWoody Lounger -
abbodi86
AskWoody_MVP -
walker
AskWoody Lounger -
Vols and Jezuz
AskWoody Lounger
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MrBrian
AskWoody_MVPOctober 23, 2017 at 7:59 am #140144I tested this on Windows 7 x64. It is true that updated binaries for 4.6.1 and 4.7 are now the same. However, the logic inside those updated binaries could still have differential behavior for 4.6.1 vs 4.7. Example: the code for those updated binaries could have logic like this:
If installed version of 4.x = 4.6.1 then do 4.6.1-specific actions
else if installed version of 4.x = 4.7 then do 4.7-specific actions1 user thanked author for this post.
MrBrian
AskWoody_MVPOctober 23, 2017 at 8:05 am #140146Microsoft documents application compatibility changes from one version of .NET Framework to another. For example, these two links have changes from 4.6.2 to 4.7: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/framework/migration-guide/runtime/4.6.2-4.7 and https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/framework/migration-guide/retargeting/4.6.2-4.7. If anyone has evidence that any of these documented changes from 4.6.2 to 4.7 no longer exist, please share it.
anonymous
GuestOctober 23, 2017 at 7:06 pm #140314Vols and Jezuz wrote:
I was developing a project with Visual Studio 2015, which requires at least 4.6.x. Hopefully it will still work with 4.7.x installed.As far as I know, .NET Framework v4.7.x is an in-place update to .NET v4.6.x, 4.5.x & 4.0 Full & Client. This is also stated at Microsoft’s page for .NET v4.7.1:
“Microsoft .NET Framework 4.7.1 is a highly compatible in-place update to the Microsoft .NET Framework 4, 4.5, 4.5.1, 4.5.2, 4.6, 4.6.1, 4.6.2, and 4.7.”
Back in July 2017, I installed .NET v4.7 on on a new Win 7 x64 SP2 install (which comes only with .NET v3.5.1). And all my .NET v4.0, 4.5.x & 4.6.x dependent apps are working as expected so far. No problems observed in Windows either.
2 users thanked author for this post.
anonymous
Guest-
abbodi86
AskWoody_MVPOctober 25, 2017 at 6:52 am #140645It’s offered as optional update in WU
you can have the installer from MU catalog:
https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=.NET+Framework+4.5.2+Featureyes, you need to uninstall any 4.6 ish version
control panel – Programs and Features – Uninstall a program -
anonymous
GuestOctober 25, 2017 at 11:28 am #140690To abbodi86
Thank you for the install/uninstall information. It appears there is one installer for just Win7 and one for Win7 x64 based systems – mine is x64 , so I guess that is the appropriate one.
I also notice the language packs & separate upgrade for language packs for Win7 – would I need those also?
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abbodi86
AskWoody_MVP
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Rydan
AskWoody LoungerOctober 27, 2017 at 6:39 am #140995What I found annoying is that the 2017-10 Security and Quality Rollup for .NET updates did not have a security tag; as far as I know that’s the first time these did not have one.
(oktober did not see a security only .NET; someone mention that already I think)side note:
sometimes you have those weird situations: ConfigMgr client (W7) scans for updates and reports missing KB 2813347. It had the scan info from WSUS, in which had it listed as superseded by 3075220. The 3075220 entry in W7 was removed after installation of 2017-10 monthly update. 3075220 does not show as superseded in ConfigMgr and not in WSUS. 2813347 was long ago cleaned up ConfigMgr, so the W7 client does not get it.
Which left me with… checking both updates for discrepancies; found none (scan bug?). An older W7 which had 2813347 installed back in 2014 had it still listed as installed after 2017-10 monthly and did not need it. Even more: 3075220 did not want to install manually (not applicable); the 2813347 did want to install manually, but gave an error. But 2813347 did install after a reboot, after which it reported fully patched.
So I made an application of 2813347 for those missing this update and left me wondering what else I might be missing from before 2014, lol.-
MrBrian
AskWoody_MVPOctober 27, 2017 at 6:53 am #140997There are some occasions in which Update A is metadata-superseded by Update B, but yet after the installation of Update B, Update A is still considered applicable because it isn’t component-superseded by what’s installed on the computer. See this topic for the different types of supersedence.
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Rydan
AskWoody LoungerOctober 27, 2017 at 7:12 am #141000Thanks MrBrian, I had not seen your/that topic yet.
The thing I found annoying was that the W7 system I installed in August, patched and again patched in September, reported fully patched each time and ‘suddenly’ missed an old superseded update from 2013 when patched with the 2017-10 Security Monthy Quality Update.
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abbodi86
AskWoody_MVPOctober 27, 2017 at 12:03 pm #141056That’s because “2017-10 Security and Quality Rollup” do not contain any new security fixes
.NET 3.5 and 4.5.2 security updates are still the same as in “2017-09 Security and Quality Rollup”
only .NET 4.7 got new non-security updateand because Microsoft obligated themselves to gather all .NET updates into one rollup, they had to release 2017-10 Rollup
also per Microsoft rules, Optional update cannot supersede security update at metadata level
that’s why we have 3 active .NET Rollups1 user thanked author for this post.
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anonymous
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anonymous
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abbodi86
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anonymous
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PKCano
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anonymous
GuestOctober 28, 2017 at 1:14 pm #141397 -
Rydan
AskWoody LoungerOctober 30, 2017 at 8:25 am #141975If not noticed yet (and as reported about 4.7 binaries used for all 4.6.x updates) the KB 4019990 is now a requirement. For example, see article https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4043766 under Summary
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MrToad28
AskWoody LoungerMrBrian
AskWoody_MVPOctober 28, 2017 at 8:04 am #141319From Lifecycle FAQ—.NET Framework: “We recommend customers upgrade to .NET Framework 4.7.1 to receive the highest level of performance, reliability, and security.”
I will probably wait a few months after .NET Framework 4.7.1 becomes available on Windows Update to install it.
1 user thanked author for this post.
MrBrian
AskWoody_MVPOctober 29, 2017 at 10:21 am #141664From Introduction to .NET Framework Compatibility (my bolding):
“Beginning with the .NET Framework 4.0, all versions of the .NET Framework with a major version number of 4 (called ‘4.x’ versions) install as in-place updates. This means that only one 4.x .NET Framework is installed on a computer at a time. Installing the .NET Framework 4.5 will replace version 4.0, the .NET Framework 4.5.1 will replace version 4.5, the .NET Framework 4.6 will replace version 4.5.1, and so on.
[…]
Compatibility with previous versions of the .NET Framework is a high priority for the .NET team. In fact, all changes in the .NET Framework are reviewed by experienced engineers who assess the impact of the changes on customer apps.
[…]
As an example, if an app targets the .NET Framework 4.5 but runs on a computer with the .NET Framework 4.5.2 installed, even though the app executes on the newer Framework, it will mimic some behaviors from 4.5 in order to minimize compatibility issues.”
1 user thanked author for this post.
MrBrian
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