What you should know about the Win10 launch

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	TOP STORY What you should know about the Win10 launch
	By Susan Bradley Microsoft has begun its major push for Windows 10 on billions of PCs. If you’re running Windows 7 or 8.1, there’s a good chance you’ve had alerts for the new OS — on your system. The mighty Microsoft marketing system is taking an entirely new approach to introducing the next Windows. Here are the facts, not the hype.

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The full text of this column is posted at http://windowssecrets.com/top-story/what-you-should-know-about-the-win10-launch/ (opens in a new window/tab).

Columnists typically cannot reply to comments here, but do incorporate the best tips into future columns.[/td]

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The forced patch installation is pretty scary to me if Microsoft continues to send driver patches. I have always hidden them and used the manufacturer’s update mechanism for drivers.

Anything known about this issue?

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The forced patch installation is pretty scary to me if Microsoft continues to send driver patches. I have always hidden them and used the manufacturer’s update mechanism for drivers.

Anything known about this issue?

I know Microsoft has heard the feedback, understand the big problem and even posted some workarounds. Their final “what we are going to do” is yet to be displayed in a build for me to be authoritative about their plans.

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I’ve a new HP Pavilion which I had built last winter in anticipation of Win10, I was told by HP product support to NOT grab or accept the MS download but to wait for HP to roll out its version as their warranty process covers the operating system (OEM) and they will provide the Win10 upgrade themselves. It might be so for other OEM manufacturers as well, so people with machines under warranty might want to check with their vendor about their plans too. :^) gene

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Thanks, Susan, for your excellent column. Very helpful. I likely will delay installation of Windows 10 for some period of time. I’m running virtual copy of WinXP within Windows 7 Ultimate in order to use some good but old programs that are still important to me. I need to figure out an alternative to this with a virtual solution of some sort. If not, I may have to wait for Windows 15 as you note.

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What possibilities will there be for doing a clean install of Windows 10?

I have Win 8.1 (upgraded from Win 8, upgraded from Win 7) and when I recently had a problem with other software (specifically, trying to upgrade to the latest iTunes) I encountered error messages saying that there were files missing from Windows (or something to that effect).

I’m hoping that the upgrade to Windows 10 will be enough to iron out the problem, but if not, then I’ll want to do a clean install. What could I expect in this regard?

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“And if you haven’t updated from Win8 to 8.1, a necessary requirement for Win10, ” No its not. That’s only if you use Windows Update to upgrade. There’ll be ISOs available from the end of July to update ALL versions of Windows 7 and 8 to 10.

But I agree, best to NOT reserve the upgrade yet. Give them a couple of months to iron out any nasties. The main questions are the usual ones like:-
– can I clean install 10? (A: yes but you have to go through the upgrade first when Microsoft will generate you a (possibly invisible to users) windows 10 license based on previous license + hardware id)
– can I go back to my previous Windows if I don’t like 10? (A: depends whether Microsoft keeps the “Revert back to previous Windows” option in Recovery; I doubt it; you’ll have to talk to MS to revert back; best to try 10 first before you upgrade)

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Is Microsoft really in a position to pressure users into an upgrade? Vista and Windows 8 were both less than “improvements”.

Microsoft may still command the desktop but the dominant driver in the digital world is mobile. That battle is between Android and Apple. You would think Microsoft would focus on getting a stable desktop release rather than trying to force users into another disaster.

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“Contrary to some rumors, there will not be any sort of subscription fee after you upgrade. Microsoft will send free updates for the life of the OS.”

Thanks for the explanations, Susan, but come on, that statement is not on the up and up. Whatever is or is not in the works with Win 10 itself, Microsoft has said time and again that starting with Windows 10, Windows is going to be a service. Service in MS terms, as well as those of just about every other business, means payment for service. Annual paid subscription has been Microsoft’s service format (e.g., Windows 365). So the “rumors” are not rumors, but anticipation, anxiety and caution based on fact and Microsoft’s not being forthcoming about what they intend by Windows as a service.

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Do you know if there is any other way to get the upgrade other than the reservation method? I ask because I recently had my house burn down and lost all of my computers. For six of them i used the Windows 7 family pack. I purchased two packs. It allowed you to install WIN 7 on three computers. So could one say get Windows 10 upgrade with just the product key?

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Do you know if there is any other way to get the upgrade other than the reservation method? I ask because I recently had my house burn down and lost all of my computers. For six of them i used the Windows 7 family pack. I purchased two packs. It allowed you to install WIN 7 on three computers. So could one say get Windows 10 upgrade with just the product key?

Download ISO after release. The problem is you have no existing product(s) which you can upgrade. Surely (surely!) you will be buying new windows 7 (or whatever) licenses/computers through your house insurance?
PS. terrible about your house.

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Download ISO after release. The problem is you have no existing product(s) which you can upgrade.

The iso would work providing they allowed you to enter old product key then let install continue. I do not buy my computers. I build them myself. Buying a computer for me will never happen.

So the yes or no question is: Can you upgrade with just old product key on new hardware?

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The iso would work providing they allowed you to enter old product key then let install continue. I do not buy my computers. I build them myself. Buying a computer for me will never happen.

So the yes or no question is: Can you upgrade with just old product key on new hardware?

Sorry I didn’t realise you had your old (windows 7) keys; I doubt very much you will be able to install “windows 10 upgrade” with just a windows 7 key.
I’d rebuild your windows 7 computers with ISOs from here
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-recovery
[Of-course because you have new hardware, activation may be an issue here. A call to MS will be required!]
Then you can upgrade.

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….i used the Windows 7 family pack. I purchased two packs. It allowed you to install WIN 7 on three computers. So could one say get Windows 10 upgrade with just the product key?

If you have the product keys those were either retail or upgrade licenses. You should be able to download (or use somebody’s comparable Win7 disk; does not matter if theirs is a retail, upgrade or OEM system builder edition) the comparable Win7 ISO and image burn it from MS site. Use your product keys to activate them. Then if you wanted to upgrade later to Win10 you can.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-recovery [note: You cannot access MS servers with a secured connection (ie, https) you have to use http: and also it seems to work best with IE.]

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”Contrary to some rumors, there will not be any sort of subscription fee after you upgrade. Microsoft will send free updates for the life of the OS.”

Thanks for the explanations, Susan, but come on, that statement is not on the up and up. Whatever is or is not in the works with Win 10 itself, Microsoft has said time and again that starting with Windows 10, Windows is going to be a service. Service in MS terms, as well as those of just about every other business, means payment for service. Annual paid subscription has been Microsoft’s service format (e.g., Windows 365). So the “rumors” are not rumors, but anticipation, anxiety and caution based on fact and Microsoft’s not being forthcoming about what they intend by Windows as a service.

You are probably right- I believe they watched Adobe force people into a cloud based ‘service’ with a monthly subscription fee, noted that the outrage was ‘manageable’ (IE:P they just ignored the outrage, and people quit complaining after awhile because it was obvious Adobe could care less what people thought), and decided to go a similar route- but slowly- offering 10 for free for a year, getting lots of fish on the hook, then wham- forced cloud based subscription fee at some point knowing people are not going to want to uninstall and clean install their previous OS- Don’t pay the monthly fee? OS will fail to operate properly – forcing people into paying monthly fee just to keep their os working right- What’s to stop them? Certainly NOT public outrage- as we’ve seen in the case of Adobe Creative Suite-

IF they do go to subscription fee on a monthly basis- will MSW also force people to keep paying or be unable to alter work done when the os was ‘active- like Adobe does? (Photos you work on are ‘locked’ until you begin paying the extortion/errrr- montly fee again because now, apparently, the cloud service does something to the photos making them uneditable in other programs? or something like that (I never did go with their cloud service= stopped buying CS after version 5 because of their lousy cloud service!

Changed start menus? Gee thanks MS- That’s just what I wanted- you mucking with something I was perfectly happy with! Changing it to suit YOUR obsessive need to change things instead of leaving well enough alone! Desktop aps? Didn’t want them! But apparently now we’ll not have a choice? Menu apps? Also don’t want them- apparently we can turn them off- but menu system still looks awful now- no control panel fly out menu now? Gee thanks MS- because the fly out control panel menu was just too convenient- thank you for saving me from convenience! Wouldn’t want life being too convenient now would we? Now I’m going to have to drill down through a crappy gui ‘app’ to get to what I want? Golly- can’t wait!

You watch- windows 7 will be quickly outdated- not working well on websites- causing conflicts etc- and then those of us not willing to upgrade to 10 will be forced to buy a crappier version of windows-

Would it hurt MS to offer a ‘keep windows 7 settings’ option as a choice? (Like the ‘use classic look’ option AVAILABLE to windows users prior to windows 10)

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”Contrary to some rumors, there will not be any sort of subscription fee after you upgrade. Microsoft will send free updates for the life of the OS.”

Thanks for the explanations, Susan, but come on, that statement is not on the up and up. Whatever is or is not in the works with Win 10 itself, Microsoft has said time and again that starting with Windows 10, Windows is going to be a service. Service in MS terms, as well as those of just about every other business, means payment for service. Annual paid subscription has been Microsoft’s service format (e.g., Windows 365). So the “rumors” are not rumors, but anticipation, anxiety and caution based on fact and Microsoft’s not being forthcoming about what they intend by Windows as a service.

The statement is on the up and up. You can read an official Microsoft blog post from back in January 2015 – The next generation of Windows: Windows 10[/url]. See also What is Windows as a Service? which contains a copy of a tweet from Gabe Aul the GM of the OSG data and fundamentals group at Microsoft.

Joe

--Joe

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The statement is on the up and up. You can read an official Microsoft blog post from back in January 2015 – The next generation of Windows: Windows 10[/url]. See also What is Windows as a Service? which contains a copy of a tweet from Gabe Aul the GM of the OSG data and fundamentals group at Microsoft.Joe

Thanks, but is all MS has had to say on the subject of “service” – a Facebook(?) post by one team general manager? Even the very recent article primarily about business users you linked from ZDNET is oblique: “However, Microsoft is starting to share with its reseller partners what it is planning in regards to Windows 10 as a service.” And, “The business pieces of this servicing strategy are more complicated.”

Or from the other article cited: “We’re still trying to come to terms with what Microsoft is planning, and I’m sure there’s big discussions still going on inside the Redmond compound, but it seems that the idea is less about Windows as a Service and more about Servicing for Windows. Maybe Microsoft’s messaging and branding folks should take a class from Gabe in clear communications.”

With public information on this central matter coming out like that, it’s perfectly reasonable for users to be somewhere between cautious and skeptical, and question writers who don’t address the issue, but just keep repeating “free.”

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”Contrary to some rumors, there will not be any sort of subscription fee after you upgrade. Microsoft will send free updates for the life of the OS.”

Thanks for the explanations, Susan, but come on, that statement is not on the up and up. Whatever is or is not in the works with Win 10 itself, Microsoft has said time and again that starting with Windows 10, Windows is going to be a service. Service in MS terms, as well as those of just about every other business, means payment for service. Annual paid subscription has been Microsoft’s service format (e.g., Windows 365). So the “rumors” are not rumors, but anticipation, anxiety and caution based on fact and Microsoft’s not being forthcoming about what they intend by Windows as a service.

It is based on my up and up and understanding.
They keep using “a service” to refer to how it’s going to be supported [as in you will get the next build no matter what], not that you will be paying for it. There’s two wins here for them.

1. Servicing win. Currently they patch gazillions of IE, numerous operating systems. If they can get people to a “chrome” or “apple” like platform where everyone is more on the same thing, they don’t have to code up as many updates, they can provide a much more stable ecosystem of devices and desktops for application vendors to code to. Patching a platform such that John Q User is still using IE 9 in 2015 is a lot of dead weight for them to patch. Instead if they can ensure that John Q User is on build 45105 which includes the same browser, the same apps, the same… get it? It’s a much more stable “Windows” for folks to code to.

2. Cloud services and possible kindle like ads. Think of how kindle has a version that is cheaper with unobtrusive ads (that no one minds at all). Their revenue is not from the operating systems which they are nearly giving away based on some device sizes, it’s getting you sucked into their subscription based cloud services.

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It is based on my up and up and understanding.
They keep using “a service” to refer to how it’s going to be supported [as in you will get the next build no matter what], not that you will be paying for it. There’s two wins here for them.

1. Servicing win. Currently they patch gazillions of IE, numerous operating systems. If they can get people to a “chrome” or “apple” like platform where everyone is more on the same thing, they don’t have to code up as many updates, they can provide a much more stable ecosystem of devices and desktops for application vendors to code to. Patching a platform such that John Q User is still using IE 9 in 2015 is a lot of dead weight for them to patch. Instead if they can ensure that John Q User is on build 45105 which includes the same browser, the same apps, the same… get it? It’s a much more stable “Windows” for folks to code to.

2. Cloud services and possible kindle like ads. Think of how kindle has a version that is cheaper with unobtrusive ads (that no one minds at all). Their revenue is not from the operating systems which they are nearly giving away based on some device sizes, it’s getting you sucked into their subscription based cloud services.

Thanks Susan. This is the sort of information that would have helped the article, given the apparently different ways MS is using the term service and the fact that they haven’t clarified it publicly, afaik. But it does raise another question: is Win 10 going to be peppered with ads? If so, maybe not very inviting.

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A couple of questions/observations on the Windows 10 upgrade business…

My copy of build 10130 has both IE and Edge. Will the final copy of Windows 10 still have both, or Edge only? This could be a high impact item.

My copy of build 10130 still includes Windows Media Player. We need to get someone to work out exporting WDM from build 10130, so it can be installed to the production Win10. Is that possible?

Both Edge and IE:

At the same time, we recognize that for some of our enterprise customers, it’s important they have the support they need and can continue to use Internet Explorer when and where they need it. This is why we will continue to make it easy for our enterprise customers to make Internet Explorer 11 the default browser via group policy. Internet Explorer 11 is supported on Windows 7, Windows 8.1, and Windows 10 for all customers, also providing a consistent platform that’s great for enterprise Web apps.
The New Browser Built for Windows 10

WDM? Windows Media Player is included in Windows 10, but Windows Media Center is not.

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I use WIN 7 and on my desktop are 30+ shortcuts and folders arranged and grouped based upon how they are used. When I install WIN 10, what will happen to my desktop and will I have any control?

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A caution. W10 so far doesn’t play nicely with XP local network. Files written on W10 from XP system are garbled, directory entries are fine. As of build 10130 and earlier.

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There are also important changes to the Microsoft Services Agreement and Microsoft Privacy Statement from August 1 (the day after Windows 10 is released). Here’s one I don’t like:

“…we’ve added detail that when you close your Microsoft account, we keep your account in a “suspended” state, just in case you change your mind… The Microsoft Services Agreement and Microsoft Privacy Statement take effect on August 1, 2015. Until that time, your current terms remain in effect… By using or accessing the services after August 1, 2015 you agree to the updated terms. If you do not agree, you can choose to discontinue use of the services and close your Microsoft account before August 1st.”

So MS will keep all your data forever even after you’ve closed your account.

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So MS will keep all your data forever even after you’ve closed your account.

Not my data, they won’t — unless they’re planning to pry it out of my cold, dead hands. I’ll never accept login to Microsoft as a condition for using their software. That would require a level of trust they’ve never even attempted to earn.

I don’t think Microsoft has really thought this through. I can accept a certain compromise on privacy with Android or iOS, or Facebook, because I can limit my access to those platforms. For example, I can avoid putting anything truly private on my Android tablet. It’s like going out to the mall — I know it’s a privately-owned space, and I can restrict my behavior accordingly.

But Windows is where I live. If Microsoft turns it into just another mobile ad platform, they I’ll be forced to go looking for a new home, in which I can feel at least reasonably private and secure.

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Not my data, they won’t — unless they’re planning to pry it out of my cold, dead hands. I’ll never accept login to Microsoft as a condition for using their software. That would require a level of trust they’ve never even attempted to earn.

While I’d agree, you’ve clearly not installed Win8. It requires an MS account, although you can stop using it almost immediately. But for most users, it tracks their computer searches and logs them in to online services when they log in to their computer.

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But Windows is where I live. If Microsoft turns it into just another mobile ad platform, they I’ll be forced to go looking for a new home, in which I can feel at least reasonably private and secure.

+1

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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The thing that I am most keen to know about before comitting to a free Windows 10 upgrade is what happens if I need to re-install the software – I’m assuming Microsoft would have to cover this scenario but I need it confirmed.

Also if my existing Windows 7 license allows me to transfer Windows to another PC will this right continue with Windows 10 or will it be “locked” to that PC.

Will I be able to move an upgraded copy of Windows onto a Virtual Machine?

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😀 Susan, thank you for this excellent article.

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I queried ASUS and they sent me an email response stating they’ve not tested Win10 yet; that was 3 weeks ago, so duh. Still, I don’t really seen anything major as far as differences betwen Win8.1 and Win10 other then eyecandy changes. Of course, I could be wrong. 🙂

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I have a concern that I’ve not seen mentioned, yet. I have two machines running Windows 8.1 Pro, 64-bit. MS has reported both machines are ready for Windows 10. My Internet is provided by Sprint cellular, with a 20 GB limit per month, before excessive use charges kick-in. And, yes, I have made “reservations” with MS for the upgrades on both machines. (I have Windows 10 Technical Preview installed on another drive as a dual-boot installation.)

I had hoped I would be notified when the download of approx. 3 GB would be ready, which would allow me some flexibility about where and when to start the download of the package. From what I read here, when ready, the download would take place without my knowledge and I would only be notified about when the Install would take place. Am I reading this correctly, or does the word “Install” mean “Download & Install”? I also assume I would have to make a 3 GB download & Install for each of my two machines.

Thanks,
Chuck

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IFrom what I read here, when ready, the download would take place without my knowledge and I would only be notified about when the Install would take place.

This is “Windows Update” so it really depends how this normally works for you. HOWEVER, this being a 3GB update it will NOT install without your permission first. Options are sketchy but include :-
– do you want to install now
– do you want to install at a later time
I have NOT seen any reported options like “save to media” (as we have seen previously) so if you are concered about multiple downloads of 3GB I would:-
1. cancel reservations
2. wait a couple of months anyway (what’s the hurry?)
3. download the ISOs that you need (hopefully all your rigs are the same OS/bit-length), burn that to DVD/USB and use that.

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I have a concern that I’ve not seen mentioned, yet. I have two machines running Windows 8.1 Pro, 64-bit. MS has reported both machines are ready for Windows 10. My Internet is provided by Sprint cellular, with a 20 GB limit per month, before excessive use charges kick-in. And, yes, I have made “reservations” with MS for the upgrades on both machines. (I have Windows 10 Technical Preview installed on another drive as a dual-boot installation.)

I had hoped I would be notified when the download of approx. 3 GB would be ready, which would allow me some flexibility about where and when to start the download of the package. From what I read here, when ready, the download would take place without my knowledge and I would only be notified about when the Install would take place. Am I reading this correctly, or does the word “Install” mean “Download & Install”? I also assume I would have to make a 3 GB download & Install for each of my two machines.

Thanks,
Chuck

Cancel your reservations. Use Task Scheduler to disable the GWX related tasks. Wait for the ISO file to be available. Download it and burn to a DVD. Then install on your time frame.

Joe

--Joe

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And a hot-off-the-press MS Forum post. “No product keys are required.” [for clean reinstall of Windows10]
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-win_upgrade/reinstalling-windows-10-after-upgrade/578d0b7f-57e4-4893-b9d1-6cfac0d6290a?tm=1434646337185

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As far as I know the upgrade from 7 to 10 is a full program and data upgrade and so all desktop data (and all users) should be maintained. Why wouldn’t it be? Make a backup first though. (as always).

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Have you ever heard of the “Gillette” business model…giving away razors to sell razor blades.

The money will be in apps.

At the Build developer conference, Microsoft pointed out several places in Windows 10 where it will be able to place what amounts to advertising. These include a spot on the new Start Menu, and very definitely the search results you get from Cortana. I suspect the plan is for monetization chiefly through Bing and Cortana. And apps, I suppose… if there ever are any, and anybody buys them.

I have no idea how much of this you’ll be able to block or disable. But I’m sure the setup will be such that the majority of naive users will never opt out.

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Thanks for Ms. Bradley’s column. Learned a couple of new things. Smiled at her sage last piece of advice for those taking the plunge.

I find it ironic that the Home users will be the beta testers. Probably the least equipped to deal with update issues, but the most in need of automatic updates.

And of course the best advice…you have over a year let others test it for you. Why rush?

As for me I’m feeling a bit Mintish.

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Thanks for Ms. Bradley’s column. Learned a couple of new things. Smiled at her sage last piece of advice for those taking the plunge.

I find it ironic that the Home users will be the beta testers. Probably the least equipped to deal with update issues, but the most in need of automatic updates.

And of course the best advice…you have over a year let others test it for you. Why rush?

As for me I’m feeling a bit Mintish.

The Home users will not be beta testers as we have known the term. Microsoft has said they are going to keep the update rings active after July 29. That means those who choose to continue to participate will get the patches and features before a general release. That means Home users will get software that has been run on many, many Microsoft and Windows Insider systems. This does not mean there will be no problems but most likely there will be fewer problems when some fix or feature hits general release.

BTW, have fun with Linux.

Joe

--Joe

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The Home users will not be beta testers ….
BTW, have fun with Linux.

Joe

Sounds like beta testers to me. And thanks I am enjoying Linux though I have some issues with IPS laptop screen rez. At least I am in relative control of my system.

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Sounds like beta testers to me. And thanks I am enjoying Linux though I have some issues with IPS laptop screen rez. At least I am in relative control of my system.

Well, I guess you and I have different definitions of beta testing.

As with most things in Windows there are multiple ways to configure & control your system – Windows itself (GUI & command line), Gpedit on Pro or Enterprise SKU, third party programs, many freely available PowerShell scripts.

Joe

--Joe

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The Home users will not be beta testers as we have known the term. Microsoft has said they are going to keep the update rings active after July 29. That means those who choose to continue to participate will get the patches and features before a general release. That means Home users will get software that has been run on many, many Microsoft and Windows Insider systems. This does not mean there will be no problems but most likely there will be fewer problems when some fix or feature hits general release.

BTW, have fun with Linux.

Joe

Windows insiders = lots of dual boots and vm. It would be interesting to know how many windows insider (the first testers) are running on real hardware. Look at what we have now. I know for a fact that security updates are tested yet every month there’s a small number of issues pop up. This month it was Spectorsoft software and the kernel updates.

Time will tell how well this works out, but Microsoft has publicly stated to it’s enterprise customers that consumers will be the validators of the feature releases. That’s a beta tester in my book.

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I think there will be…

http://theconversation.com/windows-10-on-everything-is-microsofts-gambit-to-profit-from-its-competitors-41251

I strongly doubt there will be.

The Windows Store sells UWAs (a.k.a. Universal Windows Apps, a.k.a. Windows Store Apps, a.k.a. Metro apps…) But developers naturally want to target the widest range of systems, and therefore have a huge dis-incentive to develop UWAs. Do the arithmetic:

* UWAs target Windows 10 on PCs, tablets and phones.

* Traditional Win32 (a.k.a. ‘desktop’) applications target Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 8.1, as well as Windows 10 running on PCs and tablets.

Clearly, the Win32 market is a massive superset of the UWA market. Win32 targets every Windows device except the phone, and Windows Phones are not numerically significant (and probably never will be, or we’d have seen some sign of it by now). Whereas UWAs can’t run on Windows XP or Windows 7, which still account for most of the PCs in the world. UWAs aren’t even fully compatible between Windows 10 and Windows 8.x.

On top of that, developers know perfectly well that desktop and even notebook users aren’t exactly eager to shift to using UWAs. So they’d really be developing mainly for the minority of Windows users who are fans of tablet-style operation. And for the small cult following of the Windows Phone (provided they go to the considerable extra effort of optimizing for both tablet and phone operation).

Therefore, Win32 will remain the truly ‘universal’ API for the foreseeable future, and the Windows Store will remain barren. Developers generally know all this; they didn’t rush to do UWAs for Windows 8.x because the market was too small. And they can see that even by the most wildly optimistic projection, Windows 10 can’t shift the balance too dramatically.

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I basically agree with all your advice. One thing I am telling users is that if they buy a new PC after the official release of W10 and it has Windows 8 or 8.1, they should immediately upgrade to W10.

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My system reports that the Live Family app (aka parental controls) will stop working.

Anybody know if this is true?

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My system reports that the Live Family app (aka parental controls) will stop working.

Anybody know if this is true?

Microsoft told you but you don’t believe them?

Family Safety is built in to Windows 10: Set up Family Safety on Windows 10

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OK, folks, about the “forced updates”:

As I posted in the AskWoody blog comments a little while ago:

(https://www.askwoody.com/2015/windows-10-hubris/#comments)

(on Wed., June 10, 2015 in my home town at a computer club meeting)

One of the User Groups I regularly attend got a presentation about Windows 10 upgrading from two reps from our local Microsoft Store. They had a lot of interesting things to say about Windows as a Service, Microsoft Accounts, Cortana and syncing so that it’s the same Windows experience across all our consumer-level devices, everywhere. Such consistency requires using a Microsoft Account as Administrator and Cortana with an Internet Connection almost all the time. And using Bing and Edge or IE, of course.

[But you don’t have to do things this way in Windows 10. This is just the suggested way to get the most consistent Windows experience across all the devices you — and your family — may own. Windows 10 Microsoft Accounts can have sub-accounts it seems, though I’ve never tried this.]

The most interesting thing the reps said was an unequivocal answer to the Pro Stand Alone updating question I’ve been nagging Woody Leonhard about lately.

Yes, stand alone installs and upgrades of Windows 10 Pro will definitely be able to defer Microsoft Office and Windows Updates. Home Edition is not going to be able to do so. Supposedly, this was part of the Store Associates’ Windows 10 training, so it appears to be straight from Microsoft.

Windows 10 Home is looking more and more like the successor to Windows 8 RT, rather than to Windows 8 Home. Just my thought, not the official buzz from Redmond.

(End of excerpt from my comment) [Edited for clarity.]

No distinction was made by these store reps between security and optional updates. They said simply that updates can be deferred in the Win 10 Pro stand alone version. They did not qualify this with the words “optional updates” or anything to that effect.

BTW, most MS driver updates are optional, in my experience. On a Microsoft Signature device like my ASUS TransformerBook tablet, the MS driver updates are identical to the ASUS direct downloads, if ASUS even makes these available in a form which could be applied to a tablet.

Other Information I Have Obtained:

As for making a DVD or USB copy of the download for use on a different PC or device, yes, the reps definitively said that this option will be offered by the upgrade assistant.

If there are any upgrade questions or issues, if you have a local Microsoft Retail Store, you can make an appointment, and the reps will upgrade any compatible device for free. Or just stop by for free advice from these Microsoft reps themselves. Appointments can be reserved at the Microsoft Store’s website. (There may be a separate site for each local store, or the main website may have links to local stores. I haven’t used their services yet, so I don’t know exactly how this works in practice.)

And yes, later in the rollout process, there will be Win 10 ISOs available, so we can download and install at our leisure. All you need to have for the free upgrade is any valid Windows 7, 8 or 8.1 license key. There probably will also be System Builder disks eventually, for a price.

Personally, I think on my main laptop, I’ll install from my OEM-PUL Win 8.0 Pro disk, then upgrade in whatever process is needed to eventually arrive at Win 10 Pro, PUL. I paid $132.00 for that disk, so it had better work! For maximum convenience and minimum impact on my home network, I think I’ll be downloading any needed updates and the upgrade at my local public library. The WiFi there is stable and fast.

Oh, and yes, Cortana, Bing and Edge are advertising platforms. So is the Metro, er, Universal Start Screen. In-app ads will be the norm, and some apps will not be free. You can sideload apps from outside the Microsoft Store, meaning you can get Universal Apps from anywhere (buyer beware). My free Avast security will be upgraded and reinstalled if a Win 10 compatible version is out by the time I upgrade. The desktop Start Menu can be customized. You do not have to have advertising or Universal App tiles on this Start Menu. But it is convenient to have some Apps pinned there, in my opinion, as well as to the taskbar.

A lot of third-party desktop software is also going ad-mad these days. It’s not just Microsoft or the Universal Apps which are featuring in-app ads and subscriptions models (SaaS = Software as a Service). So we need not heap our resentment exclusively on Microsoft for this shift in personal computing paradigms. ChromeOS, Android MacOS and iPad already do much the same with their OSes and apps. Not all of these ads can be blocked by the end-user, so we must choose carefully which apps we will download, pay for and use, based on our own tolerance levels for ads. Even much Windows Open-Source software seems to be becoming an advertising platform lately. (I’ll refrain from making a remark about Linux software here.)

Speaking of Linux, on my laptop where there is no Secure Boot, Linux will be able to dual-boot with Windows 10 Pro. Some Linux distros will even be able to install where Secure Boot is enabled, but I’m not eager to try this.

We can sideload apps on any platform except Apple’s OSes. This means that open-source software will not be killed off any time soon. We can and should also use security software to screen any apps we download before using them or giving them permissions.

So these are my observations, and the information currently being given out by my local Microsoft Store reps. Not everything I am posting here is verified by the Microsoft Store reps, but most of it is verified by them.

-- rc primak

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OK, folks, about the “forced updates”:

As I posted in the AskWoody blog comments a little while ago:

(https://www.askwoody.com/2015/windows-10-hubris/#comments)

(on Wed., June 10, 2015 in my home town at a computer club meeting)

One of the User Groups I regularly attend got a presentation about Windows 10 upgrading from two reps from our local Microsoft Store. They had a lot of interesting things to say about Windows as a Service, Microsoft Accounts, Cortana and syncing so that it’s the same Windows experience across all our consumer-level devices, everywhere. Such consistency requires using a Microsoft Account as Administrator and Cortana with an Internet Connection almost all the time. And using Bing and Edge or IE, of course.
…
The most interesting thing the reps said was an unequivocal answer to the Pro Stand Alone updating question I’ve been nagging Woody Leonhard about lately.

Yes, stand alone installs and upgrades of Windows 10 Pro will definitely be able to defer Microsoft Office and Windows Updates. Home Edition is not going to be able to do so. Supposedly, this was part of the Store Associates’ Windows 10 training, so it appears to be straight from Microsoft.

(End of excerpt from my comment) [Edited for clarity.]

No distinction was made by these store reps between security and optional updates. They said simply that updates can be deferred in the Win 10 Pro stand alone version. They did not qualify this with the words “optional updates” or anything to that effect.
…

Bob, Would you mind restating that in non-insider English? I really can’t figure out exactly what you’re talking about. Thanks,

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Bob, Would you mind restating that in non-insider English? I really can’t figure out exactly what you’re talking about. Thanks,

I think the articles by Mary Jo Foley (cited in this thread) do a better job of clarifying the actual situation than I or the Microsoft Store employees have done.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/piecing-together-the-windows-as-a-service-puzzle-for-windows-10/

http://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how-microsoft-plans-to-push-new-features-to-windows-10-business-users/

I am beginning to think our user group was not given the full story.

In plain English, I am not sure how Windows 10 updating will play out. I wil be waiting a few months after the release of Windows 10 to decide what my final opinions are of all the patching issues we may (or may not) be facing.

-- rc primak

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Was pretty surprised at the behaviour of the Win10 update taskbar icon.
I set it to hide as I don’t need it right there. But on every reboot, its set back to show. I thought this was a little aggressive, so I uninstalled that update. (KB 3035583) Thanks for the mention, Susan.

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Mary Jo Foley at All About Microsoft wrote an article last week describing how each Win 10 update branch wll work…

http://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how-microsoft-plans-to-push-new-features-to-windows-10-business-users/

That article does a great job of outlining the process and the tracks for business editions of Windows 10.

What I was characterizing is the less-publicized situation with the stand alone (non-business) Home and Pro editions of Windows 10. These do not connect to a server for updates and do not have a business domain associated with them. So these stand alone editions are different from the Pro and Enterprise Editions which businesses will be offered.

-- rc primak

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Thank you gratefully for this detailed very detailed letter ; I have questions though ; the “offer” relative to “reservation” appeared a long time before your newsletter and I did subscribe ; what happens then ? will I get the upgarde without requiring ? Just as an ordinary update ? ? This is particularly important for my wife’s laptop because her desease made her still Ok for some elementary use but if the upgrade comes without letting you choose when and how that’s horrible !!!! Of course a backup of the laptop is vital in this case ; my wife will never have the use of Windows 10! useless for me to think learning her basics ! she will be unable to understand .
first question : do anybody know if the upgrade will come under an ISO to download and let you burn a CD or a DVD as you please or will it just an enormous update which will install automaticallly after download as usual with windows update ?
Second question : Susan points out and this is VERY important that one should wait that some third party software ( if not all ) tweaked their drivers ; I got the same warning as Susan relative to bluetooth ; my PC has an Asus motherboard with bluetooth incorporated ; I asked their TECH Support and they told me very kindly that I had to wait ; they nned to experiment the final release in order to launch the proper drivers !!! If Asus says so ……. I can imagine what will happen to others; so certainly I will delay the installation for at least six months
Answers to these questions would be very very welcome to me and maybe to others . many thnaks in advance

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Many grateful thanks for the detailed answer ; here is another probably stupid question ; Will it be possible to install the upgrade on a partition of your choice ? I have serveral partitions with Win 7 installed ; can I choose the one on which I wish to upgrade ?
Is it possible to get an answer to that question instead of ununderstandable threads which should belong to another thread?

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Have you ever heard of the “Gillette” business model…giving away razors to sell razor blades.
The money will be in apps.

You speak from inside-the-executive-suite knowledge or idle speculation? But let’s say they are in the apps. Then the question becomes which ones and whether or not that will be a way to nickle and dime Windows users.

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Read the link included in post #25.
My speculation is never idle, BTW.

A speculative article by a professor in Warwick is your source? Read the quotes I posted in #58. One individual Facebook post by a team gm and a lot of matters undecided, with apparently crossed messages from and within MS about what the plan is. At least that’s what other journalist insiders are saying. I don’t see how you or I could know any more.

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The article states…

Windows 10 Pro, Education and Enterprise users will have the option of an additional branch, known as Current Branch for Business (CBB)

Home users will only be able to defer by not rebooting.

If you go into the current build there is an option to defer updates. (I forget what the gui actually says but that’s the gist), that’s the Current branch for business option.

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I’ve uninstalled the KB3035583 as mentioned, but every day it reinstalls itself and I have that dumb icon in the system tray. How do I get rid of it permanently? 😡 Any help is greatly appreicated.

	TOP STORY What you should know about the Win10 launch
	By Susan Bradley Microsoft has begun its major push for Windows 10 on billions of PCs. If you’re running Windows 7 or 8.1, there’s a good chance you’ve had alerts for the new OS — on your system. The mighty Microsoft marketing system is taking an entirely new approach to introducing the next Windows. Here are the facts, not the hype.

---

The full text of this column is posted at http://windowssecrets.com/top-story/what-you-should-know-about-the-win10-launch/ (opens in a new window/tab).

Columnists typically cannot reply to comments here, but do incorporate the best tips into future columns.[/td]

[/tr][/tbl]

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I’ve uninstalled the KB3035583 as mentioned, but every day it reinstalls itself and I have that dumb icon in the system tray. How do I get rid of it permanently?…

KB3035583 adds two tasks in Task Scheduler to cause the gwx notification icon to appear in the notification area.

Go to “Start/Control Panel/Administrative Tools/Task Scheduler”.

In Task Scheduler go to “Task Scheduler Library/Microsoft/Windows/Setup/gwx”. Disable the two tasks listed under gwx (right-click/left-click “Disable”).

The gwx icon will not appear next time you start Windows.

41146-GWX_Tasks

EDIT 17 July 2015: have since worked on several customers’ systems that had more than two GWX tasks in Task Scheduler. Disabling all the GWX tasks doesn’t seem to cause any problem.

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Hi Barbjj,

Here is some additional information that I found out about from an Email that was written by Susan Bradley via listserv.patchmanagement.org:

How to Remove, Block and Prevent “Get Windows 10” Application for Enterprise Environments

I would recommend just DISABLING the schedules so you can turn them on later IF you want Windows 10 Later as I do. By the Way, I have also registered my copies for my 2 Windows 8.1.3 Pro partitions so that they will be waiting for me at my discretion. I am also an Insider and am running Windows 10 Pro IP 100130 Build and will have it early in a 3rd partition.

Hope this helps,

Crysta

--------------------------------------

1. Tower Totals: 2xSSD ~512GB, 2xHHD 20 TB, Memory 32GB

SSDs: 6xOS Partitions, 2xW8.1 Main & Test, 2x10.0 Test, Pro, x64

CPU i7 2600 K, SandyBridge/CougarPoint, 4 cores, 8 Threads, 3.4 GHz
Graphics Radeon RX 580, RX 580 ONLY Over Clocked
More perishable

2xMonitors Asus DVI, Sony 55" UHD TV HDMI

1. NUC 5i7 2cores, 4 Thread, Memory 8GB, 3.1 GHz, M2SSD 140GB
1xOS W8.1 Pro, NAS Dependent, Same Sony above.

-----------------

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Hi Barbjj,

Please look at Susan’s Blog, especially the comment I have added about my experience:

Susan’s Blog

Hope this helps,

Best Regards,

Crysta

--------------------------------------

1. Tower Totals: 2xSSD ~512GB, 2xHHD 20 TB, Memory 32GB

SSDs: 6xOS Partitions, 2xW8.1 Main & Test, 2x10.0 Test, Pro, x64

CPU i7 2600 K, SandyBridge/CougarPoint, 4 cores, 8 Threads, 3.4 GHz
Graphics Radeon RX 580, RX 580 ONLY Over Clocked
More perishable

2xMonitors Asus DVI, Sony 55" UHD TV HDMI

1. NUC 5i7 2cores, 4 Thread, Memory 8GB, 3.1 GHz, M2SSD 140GB
1xOS W8.1 Pro, NAS Dependent, Same Sony above.

-----------------

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Hi Ken Kashmarek,

lol 😀

W 8.1.3 Pro indicates the 3rd Massive ROLLUP and then later ISO Microsoft released for W 8.1. Even if they won’t track these things I do!

I have seen both 10130 and 100130 Build numbers for the same build. I believe that 10130 is the official number and that others are trying to say 10.0.130 with the other convention. Now I get them confused if I am in a hurry.

Sorry for the Confusion,

Crysta

--------------------------------------

1. Tower Totals: 2xSSD ~512GB, 2xHHD 20 TB, Memory 32GB

SSDs: 6xOS Partitions, 2xW8.1 Main & Test, 2x10.0 Test, Pro, x64

CPU i7 2600 K, SandyBridge/CougarPoint, 4 cores, 8 Threads, 3.4 GHz
Graphics Radeon RX 580, RX 580 ONLY Over Clocked
More perishable

2xMonitors Asus DVI, Sony 55" UHD TV HDMI

1. NUC 5i7 2cores, 4 Thread, Memory 8GB, 3.1 GHz, M2SSD 140GB
1xOS W8.1 Pro, NAS Dependent, Same Sony above.

-----------------

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Hi Ken Kashmarek,

lol 😀

W 8.1.3 Pro indicates the 3rd Massive ROLLUP and then later ISO Microsoft released for W 8.1. Even if they won’t track these things I do!

I have seen both 10130 and 100130 Build numbers for the same build. I believe that 10130 is the official number and that others are trying to say 10.0.130 with the other convention. Now I get them confused if I am in a hurry.

Sorry for the Confusion,

Crysta

8.1 = RTM
8.1 second release = April KB2919355 release
8.1 third release = August update rollup
8.1 fourth release = November update rollup

I’m not sure what Microsoft calls them, but that’s my understanding of what they consider the rollups release schedule was.

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8.1 = RTM
8.1 second release = April KB2919355 release
8.1 third release = August update rollup
8.1 fourth release = November update rollup

I’m not sure what Microsoft calls them, but that’s my understanding of what they consider the rollups release schedule was.

Yes Susan,

That is my understanding too.

FYI from my perspective:

W 8.1.0 = 8.1 = RTM
W 8.1.1 = 8.1 second release = April KB2919355 release (MS just called UPDATE on release, Paul Thurrott and Mary Jo Folley were calling Update 1 prior to release from internal reporting)
W 8.1.2 = 8.1 third release = August update rollup
W 8.1.3 = 8.1 fourth release = November update rollup

Hope this clarifies this for everyone. Thank You Susan for your input, I thought is was obvious but maybe not.

Crysta

--------------------------------------

1. Tower Totals: 2xSSD ~512GB, 2xHHD 20 TB, Memory 32GB

SSDs: 6xOS Partitions, 2xW8.1 Main & Test, 2x10.0 Test, Pro, x64

CPU i7 2600 K, SandyBridge/CougarPoint, 4 cores, 8 Threads, 3.4 GHz
Graphics Radeon RX 580, RX 580 ONLY Over Clocked
More perishable

2xMonitors Asus DVI, Sony 55" UHD TV HDMI

1. NUC 5i7 2cores, 4 Thread, Memory 8GB, 3.1 GHz, M2SSD 140GB
1xOS W8.1 Pro, NAS Dependent, Same Sony above.

-----------------

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The article states…

Windows 10 Pro, Education and Enterprise users will have the option of an additional branch, known as Current Branch for Business (CBB)

Home users will only be able to defer by not rebooting.

If even then. So true, as I have read additional information online in the past few days.

-- rc primak

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Again let me suggest a host file mod. Why not. Ok maybe many ips will need to be blocked the whole MS range maybe.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Once again, even though KB3035583 is ALREADY installed on my Windows 7 system, it is being offered by Windows Update. The additional information link says it does not replace any previous update. Here is the sad part: this Windows 7 system DOES NOT qualify for the Windows 10 upgrade due to hardware considerations (there is not an updated driver for 32-bit Nvidia GEForce 7300, though the message indicates a lack of support for the monitor).

Speaking of the “nag” property of some offerings from Microsoft, on my Win10 TP system, I am now be routinely nagged to install or acquire the Office 365 package to replace my already installed Office 2007 Home edition. And, this system has not been offered any of the recent developer versions of Win10 beyond build 10240 (the node is on the slow ring).

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Once again, even though KB3035583 is ALREADY installed on my Windows 7 system, it is being offered by Windows Update. The additional information link says it does not replace any previous update. Here is the sad part: this Windows 7 system DOES NOT qualify for the Windows 10 upgrade due to hardware considerations (there is not an updated driver for 32-bit Nvidia GEForce 7300, though the message indicates a lack of support for the monitor).

I have the same issue with an HP SFF Desktop and the onboard video adapter so I guess I’ll be shopping for a lower cost Low-profile card for it, less than $50USD. Other than that it’s a fine little computer.

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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Once again, even though KB3035583 is ALREADY installed on my Windows 7 system, it is being offered by Windows Update. The additional information link says it does not replace any previous update. Here is the sad part: this Windows 7 system DOES NOT qualify for the Windows 10 upgrade due to hardware considerations (there is not an updated driver for 32-bit Nvidia GEForce 7300, though the message indicates a lack of support for the monitor).

Speaking of the “nag” property of some offerings from Microsoft, on my Win10 TP system, I am now be routinely nagged to install or acquire the Office 365 package to replace my already installed Office 2007 Home edition. And, this system has not been offered any of the recent developer versions of Win10 beyond build 10240 (the node is on the slow ring).

If you want to keep W7 Uninstall and hide and get on w/ life. Re the re offering my contusion http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//171893-Surprise-W10-Setup-screen?p=1024736&viewfull=1#post1024736
:cheers:

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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IT- don’t know if you saw last weeks article on WS- but it appears that the latest updates in windows 7 install a tracking program (which you can turn off in system config I guess) much like windows 10 has- It’s called “Diagnostic Tracking Service”-

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Nazareth: KB3022345 has a long history of problems, from back to April, and is now in its 3rd or 4th incantation. I have this one blocked on my system.

Berton: actually, I think I want to leave this system alone as it is my normal production use workstation. As long as MS thinks it won’t run Win10, that is good enough for me. However, the re-ssue of the change might indicate a different approach to pushing Win10 to my computer, so it will be tested out on an alternate, but likewise affected, system just to see what it does. Maybe they have a “fixed” video driver?

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