What to expect from the Windows 8 rollout

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	TOP STORY What to expect from the Windows 8 rollout
	By Woody Leonhard By the time you read this, chances are good that Microsoft will have its final, final version of Windows 8 ready. Basing my take on a few announcements and drawing on a little bit of history, here’s what’s likely to happen as Windows 8 makes it way to store shelves.

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The full text of this column is posted at WindowsSecrets.com/top-story/what-to-expect-from-the-windows-8-rollout/ (opens in a new window/tab).

Columnists typically cannot reply to comments here, but do incorporate the best tips into future columns.[/td]

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A very good article with clear, concise points. So how can/will W8 help us at all? Indeed, will we be able to use it on our desktop PC’s? Bear in mind that our screens ARE over 3 years old – so are unlikely to be “touch enabled” Is W8 on a PC better that W7Pro?

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Hi Woody…
‘er.. quote…’
“Most of us who upgrade to Win8 from Windows XP, Vista, or Win7 will buy a product key and then use the “online-upgrade experience” to move up to Windows 8 — all you need is an upgrade key and an Internet connection.
”
‘and er… end quote..’

.. and an indestructible external hard drive , I would hope

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Hi Woody…
‘er.. quote…’
“Most of us who upgrade to Win8 from Windows XP, Vista, or Win7 will buy a product key and then use the “online-upgrade experience” to move up to Windows 8 — all you need is an upgrade key and an Internet connection.
”
‘and er… end quote..’

.. and an indestructible external hard drive , I would hope

Nope. Do the entire Upgrade Adviser routine. Select Custom Install or Install Later after the download completes. Create ISO. Burn to DVD. Done and permanent. I did this with the RP and CP, and there’s no reason to believe it won’t be available with the RTM.

Be aware — OEM and System Builder installations cannot be transferred to a new machine. They are tied to the original hardware on which they are installed only. To get the ability to transfer the Windows 8 installation to another computer (legally) you will need the Full Retail License or the Upgrade over a Full Retail installation of a previous Windows OS (NOT the OEM which comes with a PC or laptop).

I realize that disk cloning software and some backup and recovery software may be able to restore to different hardware. But I am not sure the license will activate properly. Calling Microsoft in such cases may or may not result in a valid license activation without buying a new full retail license.

Another pitfall — As of this posting, if you want to have any non-Windows OS in your boot configuration (for dual or multiboot installations) you should be VERY wary of SafeBoot. At present, it excludes most Linux distros. And many other OSes. The free EasyBCD program can overcome this limitation only if your hardware is not locked by SafeBoot. (There are also other reasons for favoring EasyBCD if you are multibooting or dual-booting with non-MS OSes.) Fortunately, most existing PCs and laptops do not have hardware support for SafeBoot. I don’t know whether SafeBoot can be turned on or off, or deselected during the initial installation of Windows 8. The Windows 8 Boot From VHD feature is a definite option for those with concerns about ending up with a SafeBoot hardware lockout situation.

Think about it — will you EVER need or want to move your Windows 8 installation to a new machine? I think the correct answer is a DEFINITE MAYBE in almost all cases. The Upgrade (over an existing Full Retail previous version installation) is fine for this — but System Builder is OEM, and not transferable.

-- rc primak

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Be aware — OEM and System Builder installations cannot be transferred to a new machine. They are tied to the original hardware on which they are installed only. To get the ability to transfer the Windows 8 installation to another computer (legally) you will need the Full Retail License or the Upgrade over a Full Retail installation of a previous Windows OS (NOT the OEM which comes with a PC or laptop).

Re “… you will need the Full Retail License or …”:

I don’t think there will be a full retail license. None has been mentioned in this article or elsewhere: Windows 8 full retail version not available, pros and cons

Bruce

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What is prognosis for windows 7 once Windows 8 hits the street? Windows 7 is the best OS I’ve ever seen and I can’t believe Windows 8 can out do it.

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Re “… you will need the Full Retail License or …”:

I don’t think there will be a full retail license. None has been mentioned in this article or elsewhere: Windows 8 full retail version not available, pros and cons

Bruce

I don’t know of anything definitive, but RT will NOT have a Full Retail installation option. Pro WILL have a boxed full retail DVD, last I read.

Confirming previous rumors about simplified SKUs, Microsoft has announced that its latest operating system will come in three consumer flavors: Windows 8, Windows 8 Pro and Windows RT (stands for runtime). The first two will be available at retail, while the third will only be preinstalled on ARM-based devices. This has been reduced from four retail editions of Windows Vista and three for Windows 7.

— from THIS ARTICLE . The article’s date was over three months ago, so maybe something has changed since then.

Personally, I plan to obtain a Windows 7 full retail license, and use the $40.00 Windows 8 Pro Upgrade with the Advisor on top of that. (My current Windows 7 is OEM, and cannot be moved onto a different device should I choose to do so in the future. This OEM startus would be inherited by the Windows 8 Pro Upgrade, yes?)

-- rc primak

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Pro WILL have a boxed full retail DVD, last I read.

Depends who you believe: With Windows 8, Microsoft to replace full retail edition with System Builder version

Woody’s article was non-commital: Only, “Distributing Win8: The end of the box?”

Bruce

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Depends who you believe: With Windows 8, Microsoft to replace full retail edition with System Builder version

Woody’s article was non-commital: Only, “Distributing Win8: The end of the box?”

Bruce

Even this article has a big MAYBE in it. But no matter to me personally, as the only Full Retail new license I would need to do my own dual-boot and leave the Windows 8 side of it not tied to specific hardware, would be a Full Retail Windows 7 license (so that the Windows 8 Pro Upgrade would result in a non-OEM installation). By offering only System Builder to individuals, Microsoft would be preventing moving the installed OS to different hardware at any time. Also, any VM or VHD so created might be tied to the machine on which it was originally created. Thus preventing reusing VMs and VHDs across a network or on different hardware from where they were created.

The article also missed by a couple of weeks the actual RTM date. Maybe not such a reliable source?

All of which is speculation at this stage. Nothing in the article would prevent me from doing as I have proposed to do, unless the upgraded Win 8 Pro cannot dual-boot with Windows 7 at all. Without SafeBoot support inside my laptop, I fail to see how this is possible, given that EasyBCD will work with Windows 8, last I read. And in the worst case, Windows 7 can be the lead OS in the dual-boot. That definitely works as of this posting.

We shall see how all of this actually pans out.

-- rc primak

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The article also missed by a couple of weeks the actual RTM date. Maybe not such a reliable source?

Like everyone else, they quoted Microsoft having announced “first week of August”; which was accurate for August 1st.

Bruce

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Like everyone else, they quoted Microsoft having announced “first week of August”; which was accurate for August 1st.

Bruce

I read it as mid-July. But no matter. They were close but not exact. This doesn’t seem to me like insider information from Microsoft at the time. Again, a small but possibly telling point.

-- rc primak

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This doesn’t seem to me like insider information from Microsoft at the time. Again, a small but possibly telling point.

They were quoting Mary Joy Foley who has seen a Microsoft document which says;

“The majority of consumers buying the retail license are looking to upgrade. For Windows 8, Microsoft will therefore only offer an upgrade version of Windows 8 through the retail channel. This is the license an end user would purchase who wants to upgrade their current PC from a prior version of Windows to Windows 8.”
Windows 8: The end of the full retail version?

Bruce

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They were quoting Mary Joy Foley who has seen a Microsoft document which says;

“The majority of consumers buying the retail license are looking to upgrade. For Windows 8, Microsoft will therefore only offer an upgrade version of Windows 8 through the retail channel. This is the license an end user would purchase who wants to upgrade their current PC from a prior version of Windows to Windows 8.”
Windows 8: The end of the full retail version?

Bruce

Interesting quote. But I’m with RussB on this one. We will know what is being offered when Microsoft actually releases something to retail. And there’s nothing in that statement indicating there won’t be a direct from Microsoft download for Full Retail (although their insistent focus on System Builder — which is tied to hardware — seems not too encouraging on that front).

As I have posted before, all I personally will need is a cheap but legit license for Windows 7 full retail, not OEM or System Builder (does exist) and the upgrade license for Windows 8 Pro with the free Media Center download, which inherits non-OEM status from the previous Windows 7 license (will exist). On my hardware, I sincerely doubt that a dual-boot of that combo with my existing Windows 7 OEM installation would be forbidden (full UEFI implementation, but no support for SafeBoot). Especially if I let Windows 7 be the lead OS and use EasyBCD as the boot manager. This is not speculation, by all indications, but is based on released statements from Microsoft (and information from the EasyBCD website and several reliable How-To sites about using EasyBCD in creating a dual-boot with the versions of Windows 8 we have seen so far). I prefer to stick with Microsoft’s own statements, even if there are gaps and inconsistencies in these statements. This is the best way to plan ahead, in my opinion.

I think planning ahead is not idle speculation. My intent is not just to speculate for no reason. I am planning for my possible future use of my own Toshiba Satellite laptop, where I already am running Windows 8 RP with Windows 7 in a dual-boot controlled by Windows 8. If I need to change this setup, I’ll need to know how to do so with minimal expense and frustrations. That could take weeks or months of pre-planning — not idle speculations.

-- rc primak

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Pro WILL have a boxed full retail DVD

there’s nothing in that statement indicating there won’t be a direct from Microsoft download for Full

Yep, OK.

Bruce

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So, we are told there will be a Win 8, and a Win 8 Pro, and I suppose a Win 8 Enterprise. And we can pay for (or get free with the $40 upgrade) keeping the Windows Media Center we already have in Win 7. Or pay more if we want the Win 8 Pro ‘pack’. Not that I know what’s in that.

So then there is the question; WHY? IF you have a touch screen based system for someone who can’t use a mouse well, or are setting up a POS system, or perhaps a factory floor system, this makes sense. If not, if you are used to mouse and keyboard entry, what is in it for you? Yes, it boots a bit faster, reboots faster, and has some improved tools in Explorer and Task Manager. But what else is there that makes learning a gui not designed for your PC (remember, no touch screen) or for how you are used to using the PC worth the cost of the upgrade or the hassle that comes with it?

Here lies the problem. Microsoft has provided absolutely no reason for most of us to upgrade. Consider past upgrades;

Win 95 – hey, wow, Windows actually seemed integrated with DOS, DOS hardly noticed anymore, much easier to use.

Win 98 – fixed a lot of things wrong with Win 95, more refined.

Win ME – OOPS! No obvious reason to upgrade.

Win XP – the ultimate in (eventually) solid, reasonably efficient PC OS’s, especially 32 bit. Still holding up well today ignoring weaknesses in security.

Win Vista – tougher question. Theoretically, it fixed a lot of issues with things like drivers, was more advanced. In reality, too buggy early on, too hard to upgrade to. I had a HP laptop come with free Vista upgrade discs. I read the instructions; after many years in IT as a programmer and more, I couldn’t figure them out. Never did upgrade. Laptop now runs 7. The reality – few people found reasons to upgrade. If it came preinstalled, many downgraded to XP

Win 7 – what many people figure Vista was supposed to be. Many of the driver problems fixed, far more stable then XP, good support for 64 bit Windows, but could use some bug fixes and utility updates (the ones in Win 8).

Win 8 – ? My feeling, not just OOPS, but MS playing Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun. The sad part – all they need to eliminate most of the resistance is to put in an easily reached option to keep to the Win 7 GUI as we now know it. No hidden login screen, fully operational START orb menu, etc. A choice.

Am I missing something? Is there something in Win 8 worth taking on the pain?

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Do I want touch-sensitive on my laptop? (I recall seeing the HP touch screen laptops a few years ago.) No way! What am I gonna do sit here with my arm outstretched guiding a pointer around the screen with my index finger? My arm would fall off first. On a tablet? OK. But, I really think I want an iPad to go with my iPhone. I’ll check out the MS software on a tablet before I buy though,

Aside from that: Woody, more about Mail, please. all you said was “horribly stunted.” A ton of us out here want to know about Mail, I’m very sure of that. So, what did you mean by that (you put photos in the same category … what did you mean about the photos?).

Thank you!

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Rather than wasting time reading all of this speculation, I will wait and get the facts first hand.

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Woody:
You reported “Windows 8 Pro online upgrade from Windows XP, Vista, or Win7.”
I run XP Pro (32 bit) and was told that to upgrade to 7, I would need to do a fresh install and then re-install all programs in order to take advantage of 64 bit computing.
Are you saying that if I upgrade to 8 (from XP) that it will automatically upgrade me to 64 bit???

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For the people speculating on Win 8 Pro release forms, what I’ve read is that there will be a $40 download (that you can create a DVD from) and that entitles you to also DL Media Center (presumably without DVD codecs) and a full box Update version for I believe $80.

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For the people speculating on Win 8 Pro release forms, what I’ve read is that there will be a $40 download (that you can create a DVD from) and that entitles you to also DL Media Center (presumably without DVD codecs) and a full box Update version for I believe $80.

That was in the article we’re commenting on here, but WMC will include the DVD codec.

Bruce

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For the people speculating on Win 8 Pro release forms, what I’ve read is that there will be a $40 download (that you can create a DVD from) and that entitles you to also DL Media Center (presumably without DVD codecs) and a full box Update version for I believe $80.

Upgrade only at retail, for $69.00 (US). No mention so far of full retail boxed pricing nor availability. As I say, no problem for me either way.

By the way, just because the upgrade involves a download, doesn’t mean you can’t do the DL on any computer, save the installer, and burn it to USB or DVD for later use doing a “clean install”. The underlying license has to be valid for Windows XP, but the upgrade runs as a full wipeout — a clean install. Therefore, it doesn’t matter whether the Windows XP installation was 32-bit or 64-bit because it gets formatted away early in the upgrade installation process. Just make sure the hardware is Windows 8 ready, using the Upgrade Adviser in the download package. Run the adviser, stop to do anything needed to prepare, then do the download and save the result for later use.

For DVD playback, VLC Player works with Windows 8. And StarBurn works for burning and ripping DVDs. But hey, the Media Center is being offered or free, so what the heck — go for it!

Interesting info that Media Player will no longer play DVDs. Yet another Windows 8 downgrade.

-- rc primak

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The app that will not include the DVD codecs is WMP. You will have to add the Media Center feature with a valid code supplied by MS (for free) to have access to DVD playback with Win 8, or install a 3rd party app such as VLC for these chores.

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So you install WMC not because you will ever use it but because it will install the codec for DVD’s. Lovely.

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No, you install WMC if you wish to play DVD’s without using a 3rd party app. WMP will NOT be able to be used for DVD playback. WMP can ONLY be used for CD playback, no matter what codecs you install. MS has removed DVD playback from WMP. It is now only included with WMC.

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Amazing. I can see not installing the codec by default to save a few bucks, but not making it available in 8 is yet another reason to not downgrade to Win 8. Let’s see; an unusable GUI, no DVD codec for WMP, having to unhide the login every time I go to login…

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Amazing. I can see not installing the codec by default to save a few bucks, but not making it available in 8 is yet another reason to not downgrade to Win 8. Let’s see; an unusable GUI, no DVD codec for WMP, having to unhide the login every time I go to login…

Unhide the login?? Are you talking about the Lock Screen?

As for DVD playback, with free alternatives out there which work just fine thanks in Windows 8, this isn’t even a minor annoyance. Same for DVD burning and ripping. Lack of ad hoc networking is more than an annoyance for some folks. Inability of RT tablets to join a Domain will be a serious reason for businesses not to allow RT tablets in the workplace.

Just putting things in perspective.

-- rc primak

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There are a number of issues. You point out some important ones. But lots of people like and use WMP. Now if MS wants to save money, let them make the codec an optional download; that should save them a bundle.

As to your question; there’s this movie theater like curtain that you have to lift up – if you can, to log in. I’d like to meet the rocket scientist who came up with that idea.

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There are a number of issues. You point out some important ones. But lots of people like and use WMP. Now if MS wants to save money, let them make the codec an optional download; that should save them a bundle.

As to your question; there’s this movie theater like curtain that you have to lift up – if you can, to log in. I’d like to meet the rocket scientist who came up with that idea.

It’s a privacy feature designed with tablets in mind. For laptops and PCs it’s a minor annoyance.

On my Toshiba Satellite laptop, I actually have to “lift” the lock screen curtain to get to the Welcome Screen. A bit of a pain, but not a deal breaker.

-- rc primak

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I don’t understand this – it is miles over my head. Can you just install iTunes and Quicktime and forget about the Windows Media Center or is there some reason you’d still need to get Windows Media Center (I also don’t understand half the acronyms people are using in this thread… what is WMP? and what is the difference between Windows Media Center and WMP?

Are people saying that if I put Windows 8 on my HP Paviliion laptop which has a DVD/CD reader and burner, it won’t work with Windows 8 unless I add some other thing?

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(…) Can you just install iTunes and Quicktime (…)

These must rank in the top 10 of the worst ever Windows apps (and I won’t even talk buggy and security issues ridden, in Quicktime’s case).

If you need a decent, alternative, DVD player for Windows, just use VLC.

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These must rank in the top 10 of the worst ever Windows apps (and I won’t even talk buggy and security issues ridden, in Quicktime’s case).

If you need a decent, alternative, DVD player for Windows, just use VLC.

Thanks for the tip on VLC!

BTW, iTunes works perfectly for me. We use it to buy music and rent movies, for audiobooks, and listen to podcasts. Do not want monthly subscription to NetFlix.

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Thanks for the tip on VLC!

BTW, iTunes works perfectly for me. We use it to buy music and rent movies, for audiobooks, and listen to podcasts. Do not want monthly subscription to NetFlix.

You don ‘t want to pay a flat monthly fee to Netflix or Hulu Plus, you say. But how much are you paying each month for all those iTunes downloads? I betchya it’s more than the subscriptions.

-- rc primak

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You don ‘t want to pay a flat monthly fee to Netflix or Hulu Plus, you say. But how much are you paying each month for all those iTunes downloads? I betchya it’s more than the subscriptions.

Not much. We get 0 to 3 movies a month. I control my expense by the download. So in a month where I have heavy bills, no downloads of music or movies at all because I don’t even want to spend $5 on something I don’t have to have. If I subscribe to something I pay whether I use it or not. With some things you pay a monthly base rate and then so much per use. I don’t want any subscription fees I don’t have to have.

Everyone has their little ways of sacrificing to make ends meet. Your way is probably not mine.

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That is the reason we have said repeatedly, no one is going to be forced to UPGRADE to this excellent OS. I find the UI very useable and easy to make work the way I wish it to work. I do not need to use WMP to play DVD’s. I can have WMC, which IMO is better at this task anyway.

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MS has removed the ability of Win Media Player (WMP) to playback DVD’s. You will need Win Media Center (WMC). Or get one of the 3rd party alternatives. In Win 7 both WMC and WMP could handle DVD’s.

When Win 8 Pro is released for sale on October 26th, WMC will be included at no additional charge. You would have to acquire the key (for free) and enable the additional feature on Win 8 Pro.

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I agree about the Apple apps. They are not allowed near my PC’s. I have downloaded VLC, but have yet to install it. I just do not play DVD’s with my PC, what can I say. That’s what DVD players are for.

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All I do is Click the lock screen and my Log In screen shows up. One simple Click and this nice looking screen disappears and I log In. I have also switched to the Picture Password option. Very nice. It is very easy to change the original Lock Screen to use a picture on your PC. Charms Bar, Settings, Change PV Settings (at the bottom), Personalize screen, Lock Screen tab. Browse to whatever picture you wish to use.

If you still have a “movie theater like curtain” perhaps you are testing an old version of Win 8. IN Win 8 RP, like I said, it’s a simple click or Enter key.

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Nice to hear you can ‘click’ on the theater screen to make it go away. But I’d still prefer that Windows just open up to the login screen. Just a silly choice by MS, IMHO. As to playing DVD’s, when I travel I take a laptop and play DVD’s in the hotel room from the laptop. WMP works just fine – now. I don’t like VLC – yes, it’s amazing what it can do for the features that actually work, but it’s not very stable, IMHO, and it’s designed for geeks, not end users. I don’t like Media Center; you can spend more time trying to get it to do something useful then actually using it, but WMP is fairly useful.

But at this point, it really doesn’t matter. Unless MS backs off and allows people to not use the smart phone interface they no longer call Metro, I’ll never go to Win 8. If I buy a new PC I’ll get it from somewhere that will include an upgrade to Win 7. And given that 8 is already more reviled then Vista, that shouldn’t be too hard. The sad part; MS could fix the problem easily by just allowing users to select as an option the Win 7 style GUI and turn off the former Metro.

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And given that 8 is already more reviled then Vista,

I think that’s very far from the truth. How many people have tried it but then stopped using it? I think I can remember reading about only one.

Bruce

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The one feature that doesn’t appear to have been addressed is the bundled “XP Mode” that came with Win 7 Pro. I use this a lot and it would have to be part of the OS for me to consider an upgrade.
Why buy new hardware every time the OS is upgraded when it still works perfectly fine even if it is a few years old. I hate being forced to do this just because a driver isn’t / won’t be upgraded by a manufacturer. It makes Linux look a reasonable alternative, but the world is M$ based in software terms.

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The one feature that doesn’t appear to have been addressed is the bundled “XP Mode” that came with Win 7 Pro. I use this a lot and it would have to be part of the OS for me to consider an upgrade.
Why buy new hardware every time the OS is upgraded when it still works perfectly fine even if it is a few years old. I hate being forced to do this just because a driver isn’t / won’t be upgraded by a manufacturer. It makes Linux look a reasonable alternative, but the world is M$ based in software terms.

Actually, Windows 8 natively supports many Windows XP applications. It has a very comprehensive ability to run legacy drivers and hardware, too. No need for a specific “XP Mode” in many cases.

I can’t speak to HP scanners, but my Epson all in one didn’t even need any drivers or software, except to monitor ink levels. Full controls for printing and scanning needed the Windows Vista edition of the 64-bit software, but no special drivers were needed.

If you get really stuck, Win 8 Pro has bundled or as a free download Hyper-V which allows you to create a Virtual Hard Drive. Among other advantages over XP Mode and Virtual Machines, you can boot from a VHD as if it were an actual bootable drive.

-- rc primak

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As we have said regularly, there is no one forced to upgrade. If you have and are happy with Win 7, keep it. You do not have to buy new H/W when your old H/W is working. That’s the whole thing. If you like what you have and it does the job for you then stay with what you have and know.

I do not understand the comment about drivers. If you have Win 7 and it’s working you have drivers already that works for you. You do NOT need to change.

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Thanks Ted, but you missed my point. I have both hardware & software that do not run natively on Win 7, I have to use XP Mode for these to work. I also didn’t say I was upgrading, but for me to consider this option XP Mode is needed because of the afore mentioned point. So far I have not been able to get a definitive answer about this. I didn’t upgrade immediately to Win7 but ran XP for about 12 months after Win7 was released and I think Win7 has been a great step forward for Microsoft.

The comment about drivers relates to perfectly good hardware that the manufacturer’s thereof could not be bothered upgrading the driver for when a new version of an operating system is released. I had scanners & printers that worked fine under XP but were not compatible with Win 7. If you didn’t purchase Win7 Pro or above then you had to replace such hardware so I take your comment about new H/W with a grain of salt.

At the heart of the issue is the continuing use of existing hardware that is perfectly functional, but they are not guaranteed to work with Win8 without an XP mode type of solution and I don’t necessarily want to splash the cash on buying new H/W that does the same as my existing.

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The drivers issue is an issue with the device manufacturers, not MS. I won’t have an HP printer in my home any more because of this. Device manufacturers do not support their products through different OS’s in many cases.

Win 8 does not have XP Mode per say. But it has a virtualization mode called Hyper-V.Paul Thurrotthas a good article on Hyper-V. Will you get your older devices to work? I can not answer that.

If you feel you wish to upgrade to Win 8, you will have to find a way to virtualize XP using a different VM app, or upgrade the devices and express your displeasure with the device manufacturer. I had to let a perfectly good, very functional HP printer go because of this, thus my comment about HP printers. It seems HP is one brand that has many complaints such as yours.

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The drivers issue is an issue with the device manufacturers, not MS

.

Not entirely. Microsoft is partially to blame by requiring new drivers every time they update an OS. It can become very expensive to hardware vendors to provide new drivers for all their new products as well as their old ones for which they get no new revenue. I agree that HP seems to be the worst vendor in maintaining new drivers.

Jerry

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There are huge numbers of online comments about how unusable and despised Win 8 is. Plus lots of articles. And it is frequently compared to Vista and Win ME, a continuation of the every other version of Windows that no one wants.

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There are huge numbers of online comments about how unusable and despised Win 8 is. Plus lots of articles. And it is frequently compared to Vista and Win ME, a continuation of the every other version of Windows that no one wants.

Unfortunately the vast majority of people that have had great success with Win 8 do not write about that success. That is human nature, we complain when we don’t like something, but stay quiet when we do.

Compared with the numbers of people using Win 8 the complainers seem to be a drop in the ocean.

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Unfortunately the vast majority of people that have had great success with Win 8 do not write about that success. That is human nature, we complain when we don’t like something, but stay quiet when we do.

Compared with the numbers of people using Win 8 the complainers seem to be a drop in the ocean.

Until a large national survey is done I don’t think anyone can make too many claims about how many love or hate Windows 8. If and when they do one I hope they include age groups and occupation because I suspect the two groups who “love” it are 1. advanced or tech users and/or 2. Those under 30, and the younger the better.

Maybe those who think the lounge is a forum to promote widespread acceptance (“love”) of new operating systems in order to make sure more people and companies want to install it should indicate their vested interest in such promotion in a sig line and that would reduce the polarizing and repetitive arguing. On the other hand if they are just here to help others and discuss tech matters, not promote something, no sig line would be needed. Just a suggestion.

Teens who use smartphones would probably not be bothered by Windows 8, At least according to teens I have talked to. I know one (age 18 and on the way to college) who even approves of the design – says the flat tiles accurately reflect Microsoft’s image as a stodgy business oriented company. I did not argue his perception of Microsoft, it’s his opinion. He does want to try Windows 8 on his PC (although he is equally at home on his Mac) and try out a Surface tablet. And his latest laptop – is a MacBook Air. Phone: uses Android Ice Cream Sandwich.

Teens that I know are not stuck on any one operating system – they’ll use whatever comes along that they like and then change when they see something with features more to their liking, and are equally at home with Apple and Microsoft and now, Google/android. It is not unusual to see them with all three operating systems on various devices.

I think it is time to recognize that efforts to “catch ’em when they are young and make ’em a customer for life”, which seems to be a big part of MS’s strategy (just my opinion), doesn’t work so well anymore. Teens are not dedicated to any one operating system as far as I can tell. They’ll use whatever appeals to them or works best for their purposes, and drop it for the next thing that has a feature they need, no matter who makes it.

That does not bode well for those who make their living off customers’ Microsoft product usage, in my opinion. If it were me, and I expected to be working for the next 25 years, I’d be looking to diversify because when today’s teens are in management in companies, and buying for their families, their decisions may be very different from the ones that are made today..

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As here in the Lounge, Infoworld TechWatch (Woody Leonhard articles) has had a very large response (in the Comments) representing the Windows 8 haters and lovers (there don’t seem to be a lot of fence-sitters). Read the Comments and enjoy — it’s either hilarious or tragic how strange the “logic” of both camps can get.

http://www.infoworld.com/d/microsoft-windows/windows-8-review-yes-its-bad-200113http://www.infoworld.com/t/microsoft-windows/windows-8-yes-its-bad-part-2-200407(Regarding a few of the Comments posted in Part One: Warning — “Faye Kane, Homeless Brain” is a porn-spammer. She uses the term Autistic-Savant in a truly abhorrent and exploitive way in her posts and at her fetish-porn website, the URL for which she seems compelled for some reason to use as her Infoworld username. Given that there is an email contact included in the porn-blog link, it should be considered a site which solicits for sex for hire, and Google should have been served with a take-down order long ago about that. But I digress…)

-- rc primak

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I am 60 and on comp, my wife is 58 and working full time in a university setting. Neither of us have ever worked for any PC manufacturer or S/W developer, etc. We have no “skin in the game” with MS or anyone else, other than the Lounge and other forums.

I do love Win 8. My wife has just started using it. I started a thread herewith her limited experiences so far.

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I am 60 and on comp, my wife is 58 and working full time in a university setting. Neither of us have ever worked for any PC manufacturer or S/W developer, etc. We have no “skin in the game” with MS or anyone else, other than the Lounge and other forums.

I do love Win 8. My wife has just started using it. I started a thread herewith her limited experiences so far.

Just read your thread. Interesting. And wow – you put in a lot of work getting your wife all set up and ready to roll. Most folks are not so lucky as she is and do not have a resident (or even a non-resident relative) tech expert to do all of that for them. So she is a very lucky lady, in my opinion. The rest of us just clump along the best we can and hope we don’t run into a snag we can’t overcome with our limited knowledge.

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The changes I made were fairly minimal. Classic Shell was the biggest thing. The remainder of the things I have done since Win XP. The whole point of the thread was that Windows (all versions since XP) is highly customizable, and that, IMO, is the greatest draw to Windows over the others. Most of the time was spent installing apps including Office, then updating Office. I also made a total of 3 Images. One before Office, two directly after Office, then three when totally finished.

I also installed 3 or 4 Modern apps from the App Store. She likes a couple of games.

The point is with a minimal of effort an entire OS (Win 8) can be installed, customized, with all new apps installed and updated. What took a day or 2 in XP is now 3 or 4 hours work. Networking was automatic. Win 8 is a joy to install, and VERY easy to customize.

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The changes I made were fairly minimal. Classic Shell was the biggest thing. The remainder of the things I have done since Win XP. The whole point of the thread was that Windows (all versions since XP) is highly customizable, and that, IMO, is the greatest draw to Windows over the others. Most of the time was spent installing apps including Office, then updating Office. I also made a total of 3 Images. One before Office, two directly after Office, then three when totally finished.

I also installed 3 or 4 Modern apps from the App Store. She likes a couple of games.

The point is with a minimal of effort an entire OS (Win 8) can be installed, customized, with all new apps installed and updated. What took a day or 2 in XP is now 3 or 4 hours work. Networking was automatic. Win 8 is a joy to install, and VERY easy to customize.

Good grief! It took me *weeks* to find the ways to customize Windows 7 the way I wanted it! And I am not a beginner, either! It would take me a month to do all the things you said you did with ease with Windows 8. There is a vast difference between you and the average person. You do recognize that, I hope!

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I think quite alot of Windows 8 customizations are, for the most part, already here in various threads in the Windows 8 section.
Undoubtedly more detailed tutorials will start appearing as more of us move over to Windows 8 when it comes out.
There are already a ton of videos on the internet that can provide some very usefull first looks on virtually every aspect of the OS configuration.

And there will always be those here that will provide support and guidance to whomever is looking for it, after all, this is what we are here for.

So don’t stress, it’s all good.

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Medico, you posted that your setup for your wife is based on Windows 8 Enterprise. Most of us will be using the RTM of Windows 8 Pro, upgraded over (mostly) Windows 7. Reports have indicated that the Classic Shell may not be able to restore anything resembling the Start Menu in Windows 8 Pro. We may have to wait to see if this will be so, but your setup may not be available to most of us who may upgrade.

Not that using Windows-X or right-clicking the empty Start Space in the lower-left of the Legacy Desktop Taskbar is that difficult. These two moves will pop up most of the old Start Menu items in Win 8 RP or the RTM. Including the Run and Run As Administrator commands. And the Command Prompt and Administrator Command Prompt. Lots of other useful stuff. The right-click is also a touch gesture. On the Metro-style side, All Apps is a right-click and a taskbar area single click to toggle with the tiles style Metro-style desktop. Again, one or two touch gestures.

The Desktop Toolbar (really a popup menu) when enabled from the (Legacy Desktop) Taskbar, has numerous flyout menus which allow you to do almost anything without ever even using the old Windows 7 Aero-peek feature. Everything on the entire computer is there from one main menu. I’m still playing with all the things I can do from that one toolbar.

So it isn’t necessary to revive the old Start Menu in Windows 8, once you know a few little tricks.

-- rc primak

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Classic Shell version 3.5.1 was working fine in my Win 8 Ent. Eval. I have since upgraded to Classic Shell v 3.6.1 (released for WIn 8) which also works perfectly on our laptops. I also have a couple of toolbars. The Favorites Bar is on my taskbar as is my customized Shortcuts toolbar (I have a folder in My Documents that I place shortcuts to all apps I use regularly). These last 2 customizations were on our Win 7 OS’s as well. The only change on my desktop that is different from Win 7 is Classic Shell.

I could quite easily work with Win 8 w/o Classic Shell, I just prefer accessing Control Panel as a menu item on Classic Shell. Classic Shell also has a Tab (Win 8 Settings) that allows a user to Skip Metro (quickly switches from Modern UI to Desktop UI automatically) and disable the corner Hotspots.

31799-ClassicShellSkipMetro

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