What are the advantages of Windows 8?

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These are the things I have seen claimed for it.

1.) Faster Boot

2.) Optimized for touch devices

3.) Better use of memory

4.) More Efficient use of Processor

5.) Improved Security

Anything else?

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1. It runs noticeably faster than Windows 7 for normal operations for me.
2. It also gives you the longest support time for Microsoft OS Updates of all the existing releases.
3. You get both desktop apps and mobile apps rather than just one class of apps.
4. Windows 8.1.1 has enhancements for Mouse and keyboard operation. Future releases will continue this trend.
5. Windows 8 is customizable to look and feel just like Windows 7 if that’s your preference.

Jerry

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All of the above can safely be taken for granted in Windows 8.1 despite the recent push on MS’s part
to follow market trends away from the desktop in W8.0.

I don’t recommend Windows 8.0 anymore…so why get 8.0 when one has to painfully upgrade to 8.1.
MS has effectively made Windows 8.0 a de facto dead end the moment 8.1 came out.
One is better off waiting until MS culminates with their revised vision of the desktop in W8.1+, or even Windows 9.

Although the desktop may not be as popular in market speak as portable devices, but they will continue to
become far more powerful than anything ever made previously and there will always be a market for a more
powerful computer. The reality is that the average user will likely not have a need for it, but many others will.
More than enough to influence change in MS’s erroneous tablet centered direction.

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1. It runs noticeably faster than Windows 7 for normal operations for me.

According to the benchmarks I’ve seen, Windows is consistently a little faster, but only on the order of 1%. In my own experience, it is not noticeably faster. Can you give an example of a application that you have run on both Windows 7 and Windows 8, on the same hardware, where Windows 8 was noticeably faster?

2. It also gives you the longest support time for Microsoft OS Updates of all the existing releases.

Windows 7 has until 2020.
Windows 8.0 has two years.
Windows 8.1 has until the next patch Tuesday.
Windows 8.1.1 has a now indeterminate length of support, but probably not beyond about a month after {8.1.2|8.2} (or whatever it is called) is released in August.

3. You get both desktop apps and mobile apps rather than just one class of apps.

Meh.

4. Windows 8.1.1 has enhancements for Mouse and keyboard operation. Future releases will continue this trend.

But not yet up to the level of Windows 7.

5. Windows 8 is customizable to look and feel just like Windows 7 if that’s your preference.

Windows 7 does not have to be customized to have the look and feel of windows 7.

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According to the benchmarks I’ve seen, Windows is consistently a little faster, but only on the order of 1%. In my own experience, it is not noticeably faster. Can you give an example of a application that you have run on both Windows 7 and Windows 8, on the same hardware, where Windows 8 was noticeably faster?

The speed difference is more noticeable on slower hardware. All applications seem quicker to start and close on my laptop that originally came with Windows 7. It just feel snappier. If you have a modern PC with a fast processor, I suspect you won’t see much difference.

You get both desktop apps and mobile apps rather than just one class of apps.
Meh

.

That’s a personal preference. The point is you have the option at no extra cost. I use a couple mobile apps myself but in general stick to the desktop.

Windows 8.1.1 has enhancements for Mouse and keyboard operation. Future releases will continue this trend.
But not yet up to the level of Windows 7.

That’s your opinion. In mine. with the added capability of pinning mobile apps to the desktop task bar along with the addition of adding the task bar to mobile apps, it is just as capable as Windows 7. Can you cite one Mouse or keyboard deficiency when compared to Windows 7?

All that said, I don’t see a compelling reason to upgrade a Windows 7 box to Windows 8.1.1 but if I were buying a new computer, it would definitely be a Windows 8 box.

Jerry

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I like File Explorer.
I like [Ctrl][N] to open a new File Explorer window. BTW, it was there in Vista, but I never knew.
I like tiling two File Explorer windows. Also in Vista, but I never knew.

I think Wordpad is better, but I haven’t had the time for discovery. I also think Microsoft is setting up for more UTF8 behind the scenes. Not sure how, nor where I should begin to learn about character encoding stuff. But I guess with more “*aaS”, ie. Software as a Service, Infrastructure as a Service, Etcetera as a Service, it’s something I should get a handle on … eventually.

Eg. I need to know what it means for me when I ‘Save As’ UTF8 or Unicode in Notepad or Wordpad.

I don’t live in Microsoft Office, so I guess it matters to me. Less hassle as I move text between different apps.

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For me the answer to the Windows 8 initially confusing and alien start screen was an inexpensive third party add on called Start 8. It provides a Windows 7 style start menu with a one click option to go the Windows 8 default menu. Result? A windows 7 style environment with wallpaper and task tray together with the boot speed and stability advantages of the Windows 8 OS. There are also free apps that are similar to Start 8.

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For me the answer to the Windows 8 initially confusing and alien start screen was an inexpensive third party add on called Start 8. It provides a Windows 7 style start menu with a one click option to go the Windows 8 default menu. Result? A windows 7 style environment with wallpaper and task tray together with the boot speed and stability advantages of the Windows 8 OS. There are also free apps that are similar to Start 8.

For me, the way to get the look and feel of Windows 7, is to use Windows 7. It works flawlessly.

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I like File Explorer.
I like [Ctrl][N] to open a new File Explorer window. BTW, it was there in Vista, but I never knew.
I like tiling two File Explorer windows. Also in Vista, but I never knew.

dried_squid, I think that you’d be better served using the Win+E for opening a new instance of FileExplorer, as Ctrl+N usually is the command for Open New (as in a page or a tab or a document).
In addition, upon opening two FileExplorers (using Win+E), you can tile them (side-by-side) more readily by using Win+LeftArrow() key to position the second one on the right half of the screen. These two key combinations work equally well with almost every application window.
You can also experiment with Win+DownArrow key to minimize an application window as well as using the Win+UpArrow key to maximize an application window!
There are numerous FREEware utilities which provide ‘dual-pane” FileExplorer replacements/alternatives on the market.
Few examples are FreeCommanderXE and MultiCommander

Regarding your question about UTF-8

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dried_squid,
Regarding your question about UTF-8

Thanks.

Periodically, when I have the strength, I visit here –
Internationalization Techniques: Authoring HTML & CSS
http://www.w3.org/International/techniques/authoring-html#charset

At this point, still scratching the surface. I’m aware of it, but I’m not cognizant of it affecting me yet. I presume Win 8 is aware of it.

Thanks again.

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Windows 8.1 has until the next patch Tuesday

This is incorrect,
anything beyond 8.1 is an update more equivalent to a service pack, not an upgrade.
(At least not until W9 come out, but we have yet to see the upgrade options here)
There is no such thing as an 8.1.1 version, it is merely an update to 8.1. (not a major OS upgrade)

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This is incorrect,
anything beyond 8.1 is an update more equivalent to a service pack, not an upgrade.
(At least not until W9 come out, but we have yet to see the upgrade options here)
There is no such thing as an 8.1.1 version, it is merely an update to 8.1. (not a major OS upgrade)

True enough, but 8.1 has a very limited update lifespan. There will be no updates/patches for 8.1 after about 90 days (MS relented on the 30 days after much howling). Without 8.1 Update installed, 8.1 has been voted off the island. Most folks (including me) are referring to 8.1 Update as 8.1.1; quite unofficial, but realistic, nonetheless.

“Woody Leonhard on April 23, 2014 in Top Story

When Windows 8.1 Update came down the chute last week, Microsoft tossed in a surprise: if you want Windows 8.1 security patches in the future, you have to install Win8.1 Update first.”

A “Service Pack” has traditionally had a two year lifespan. Hence MS is not calling “Windows 8.1 Update” a “Service Pack”, even though, for all intents and purposes, that’s what it is. 8.1 Update is the new baseline for Windows 8.1, period.

However, if one has preserved that pre-8.1 upgrade Windows 8 drive image, reverting to Windows 8 will allow continued security updates/patches for the life of the Windows 8 OS.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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There will be no updates/patches for 8.1 after about 90 days (MS relented on the 30 days after much howling).

The 90-day extension from May 13th to August 12th for Windows 8.1 without the Update (KB2919355) only applies to enterprises using Windows Server Update Services etc.

There is no extension beyond May 13th for those of us using Windows Update:

For our consumer customers, the Windows 8.1 Update is a required update to keep Windows 8.1 devices current. It will need to be installed to receive new updates from Windows Update starting on May 13th. The vast majority of these customers already have Automatic Update turned on, so they don’t need to be concerned since the update will simply install in the background prior to May 13th. For customers managing updates on their devices manually who haven’t installed the Windows 8.1 Update prior to May 13th, moving forward they will only see the option to install the Windows 8.1 Update in Windows Update. No new updates will be visible to them until they install the Windows 8.1 Update. For customers on metered networks, they will get the same experience until they install the Windows 8.1 Update.
Windows 8.1 Update: WSUS Availability, Extended Deployment Timing

However, if one has preserved that pre-8.1 upgrade Windows 8 drive image, reverting to Windows 8 will allow continued security updates/patches for the life of the Windows 8 OS.

Only for 21 months, not the full 9 years:

… customers on Windows 8 have … until January 12, 2016, to move to Windows 8.1 in order to remain supported.

Windows 8.1 … will reach end of Mainstream Support on January 9, 2018, and end of Extended Support on January 10, 2023.

Windows 8.1 Support Lifecycle Policy FAQ

Bruce

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True enough, but Most folks (including me) are referring to 8.1 Update as 8.1.1; quite unofficial, but realistic, nonetheless..

Hear! Hear! Trying to keep from confusing oneself in this case, 8.1.1 is an easy identifiable and a perfectly fitting moniker for the current MS Windows OS. In this case even MS fails to tow that line on its own numerous tech support sites…..

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As I run a much-modified Windows experience, my dog isn’t really in this hunt. That being said, I run Windows 7 and Windows 8 with the same configuration, so I can compare the two in my own back yard.

Windows 8 boots faster. However, once booted, it would take benchmarking to tell any difference between the two. File Explorer has a toolbar that I don’t use, and other than that I can’t tell any worthwhile difference from Explorer. As for stability, I haven’t had a non-hardware stability issue since Windows 98. Windows 2000 Professional/XP was just as stable for me as Windows 7/8 (I skipped Vista entirely). My only incentive for Windows 8 was the price – I spent a lot more on Windows 7.

The only App I use on my PC is Solitaire, so there’s nothing on that side of Windows 8 for me. There may be advantages with new hardware, but my newest PC hardware was purchased in February 2010. With StartIsBack+ on Windows 8, I don’t really notice which OS I’m booted into. I imported my personal settings from Windows 7.

I’m dual booting Windows 7/8, and the Windows 7 side has a longer Microsoft lifespan than Windows 8. It does point toward the intention to transition to a subscription model.

I recently bought a Windows Phone 8; job related incentives (not monetary, just “gettin’ it done”) made that a fairly realistic decision. I haven’t owned a smartphone until now. The touch GUI makes perfect sense for my phone, and I’ve acclimated to it quickly and quite well, but it is still totally wasted on a full-sized PC with a 23″ monitor sitting at arm’s length.

I have many years invested in making Windows run the way I prefer it to run, and I’m very accustomed and at home with the way I do things. I haven’t used “Search” a dozen times in the last decade; I know where my stuff is, because I put it where I want it to be in the first place. My filing system is as much in my head as it is in my PC; I know where to find anything, and I have files going back into the late ’90’s.

My two sons and my daughter have laptops running Windows 7, and all are quite content with what they have and what it does. None have had any interest in Windows 8. My younger son is considering getting a new desktop PC, but he’s looking toward a Windows 7 machine; he hasn’t really made up his mind yet, but he doesn’t see a need for Windows 8. He likes my desktop (when I let him get on it) but he prefers the Windows 7 side. He’s 20.

So, is there a compelling need (at least within my family) to upgrade to Windows 8/8.1/8.1.1? In a word, “No.” I have 8.1.1 on my newer laptop, but that was more for the experience than any need; I can answer 8.1.1 specific questions here on this forum by waking my laptop and giving it a go. I also dual boot Windows 7 on it.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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I think you are right, the hardware (new processors and SSD) gets most of the credit for speed. UEFI gets credit for security. Websites get most of the credit for lack of security.

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I was really excited about Windows 8, and looking forward to it. During the Developers preview I learned how to edit the registry to re-enable the Start Menu, and during the Consumer Beta, I learned how to link the program list to a folder and pin it to the task bar, and use it as a Start Menu, but with each release, they made it harder to do, and finally I quit.

I was starting to get some hope for Windows 9, but if they go to subscription that will be it for me. I’m already looking at Linux, and getting familiar with it, so that one day, I will be ready to make the leap.

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I was really excited about Windows 8, and looking forward to it. During the Developers preview I learned how to edit the registry to re-enable the Start Menu, and during the Consumer Beta, I learned how to link the program list to a folder and pin it to the task bar, and use it as a Start Menu, but with each release, they made it harder to do, and finally I quit.

I was starting to get some hope for Windows 9, but if they go to subscription that will be it for me. I’m already looking at Linux, and getting familiar with it, so that one day, I will be ready to make the leap.

While I too await Windows 9, and a subscription model might be a bit off-putting, I still might give Win 9 a whirl.

As for Linux, come on in, the water’s fine!

-- rc primak

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While I too await Windows 9, and a subscription model might be a bit off-putting, I still might give Win 9 a whirl.

As for Linux, come on in, the water’s fine!

Ubuntu 14.04 LTS Trusty Tahr was just released, and Open Mandriva Phosphorus has not been released yet, but is scheduled to be released today.

And there is always Linux Mint.

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Ubuntu 14.04 LTS Trusty Tahr was just released, and Open Mandriva Phosphorus has not been released yet, but is scheduled to be released today.

And there is always Linux Mint.

I just upgraded over the weekend to Trusty (Ubuntu 14.04). Smoothest transition I can ever recall for an OS upgrade. Their Assistant did everything except the massive download with hardly a hickup. (I have a slow DSL connection, so downloading 2.5GB of anything is kind of iffy at best.) Only the printer had to be deleted and rediscovered (the driver was fine), and one or two software apps got a bit munged and had to be removed and reinstalled. This Assistant process worked much better than those I’ve used for Windows 7 to Windows 8 previews, and to the Windows 8 final release. And Trusty works quite nicely, although support for my NVidia Hybrid Graphics still isn’t what Mir might have provided, had it been ready for this LTS Release.

-- rc primak

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I’d switch it around just a bit and fall much more into Woody Leonhard’s camp of W8 easily rivaling the worst output from Redmond regarding OSes in history for one overwhelming disadvantage; that being the great instability of the user interface over time now. Having been rejected on both fronts, traditional mouse and keyboard and touch especially, Microsoft has had no choice but to change the interface significantly and has to keep on with the same plan until…well until something hopefully sticks.

Now you’ll find many folks who don’t mind that constant change because they fall more into the enthusiast category of users but they don’t represent the vast majority of work a day grinders and folks who just want it to work dependably and be boringly repetitive day after day after day as a PLATFORM for all their other computing interests. This doesn’t hold quite so true when it comes to smart phones and tablets but that’s another story.

So for an enthusiast, it’s a difference they’ll hardly even notice and probably think it just comes with the territory but if one looks back over time, over service pack updates, etc., this is one very glaring and apparent difference that has come under the guise of Microsoft stating ahead of time that they plan on more frequent upgrades, but I don’t think even Microsoft envisioned the revisionism they would be applying in an attempt just to keep the OS from floundering completely.

That platform UI instability is as clear a disadvantage at the moment for Win 8 as is it’s clear advantage if touch is required. If apps clearly stood out as worthy replacements for real programs or something along those lines then that along with touch might very well make up for such a lapse but not head to head. I’d choose the stable UI every time and that would go quadruple for business.

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For me, the most important new feature in Win 8.x is File History, the best backup process for the average user to protect personal data.

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Ya, I can agree that 8.1 with Update is the most usable version so far, though I can’t speak for the touch side of things. Perhaps we have different meaning to the work objective though since to me that would require also being hip-deep into the start screen, touch and the various alternate little interfaces like the charms bar and switcher bar.

I agree with Woody that the sooner MS can backpedal some more and get the start apps opening from the CC start menu into non-full screen windows on the desktop, the better for non-touch users with large screens and even before the recent Update I have been viewing the Charms bar and even the switcher bar as vestigial components but perhaps they are more useful coming from the touch side of things but that begs the question; how much demand is there for a full-fledged desktop on a touch tablet device or maybe with a desktop start tile and start button on the desktop it doesn’t even factor in there?

I’m curious of course because as a singular desktop user I’d MUCH rather have a pin-able hidden toolbar on either edge because one of them hides my 37 network locations quite nicely yet provides instant access.

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… the CC start menu …

The what? :confused:

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Speaking of full screen ‘Start Apps’. This in the weirdest way is like an evolutionary semi-step backwards.

In the days of DOS there were methods to run many apps just like Start Apps/Windows store apps with a 3rd party app called Software Carousel. It would load the apps you’d want to run and at the touch of a hot-key 1 app would replace the other full screen…

Of course graphics and memory weren’t near what they are today but the underlying principle is there.

The big switch to Windows was the idea of multitasking, having more then 1 window opened at a time with the option of taking the floating window and making it temporarily full screen for whatever the reason. At a glance I’ve seen many apps that have absolutely no place being run full screen even with bad eye sight. Go figure.

I realize this is all changing, but almost every one of you has paid for a finished product, not one that hasn’t fully evolved… I have a paid copy of Windows 8, but so far I haven’t seen reason to even try it. If I need to fix a windows 8.x machine it’ll take me an extra 10 minutes for something I may not be familiar in finding.

I build, fix, game, program, watch TV and movies, re-encode, and more all on my pc flawlessly. I’m still running Windows 7.

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Speaking of full screen ‘Start Apps’. This in the weirdest way is like an evolutionary semi-step backwards.

In the days of DOS there were methods to run many apps just like Start Apps/Windows store apps with a 3rd party app called Software Carousel. It would load the apps you’d want to run and at the touch of a hot-key 1 app would replace the other full screen…

Of course graphics and memory weren’t near what they are today but the underlying principle is there.

The big switch to Windows was the idea of multitasking, having more then 1 window opened at a time with the option of taking the floating window and making it temporarily full screen for whatever the reason. At a glance I’ve seen many apps that have absolutely no place being run full screen even with bad eye sight. Go figure.

I realize this is all changing, but almost every one of you has paid for a finished product, not one that hasn’t fully evolved… I have a paid copy of Windows 8, but so far I haven’t seen reason to even try it. If I need to fix a windows 8.x machine it’ll take me an extra 10 minutes for something I may not be familiar in finding.

I build, fix, game, program, watch TV and movies, re-encode, and more all on my pc flawlessly. I’m still running Windows 7.

The programs that Carousel managed were called TSRs, Terminate and Stay Resident, and being able to have more than one program resident in memory depended on having enough memory. It was a good reason to buy more memory.

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The programs that Carousel managed were called TSRs, Terminate and Stay Resident, and being able to have more than one program resident in memory depended on having enough memory. It was a good reason to buy more memory.

Having been around long enough to remember the “Good Ol’ Days” of DOS and TSRs, I also recall buying my first memory upgrade, which I believe was a “whopping” 16KB expansion, for over a hundred bucks. I also recall dropping a few hundred bucks more for a “massive” 110MB hard disk that was certainly “more than anyone could ever fill up.” I’m happy to have lived through that era and all the technological advances that have come along in between, but I am also thankful that Moore’s Law has held!

I often wish that more operation-intensive software could once again be distilled down to machine language, eliminating bottlenecks in speed that occur with so much bloated code and the massive libraries that high-level programming uses. That would vastly reduce the need to constantly upgrade one’s computing power to perform the same tasks. Of course then the symbiotic relationship between hardware manufacturers and software developers might fade a bit.

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Having been around long enough to remember the “Good Ol’ Days” of DOS and TSRs, I also recall buying my first memory upgrade, which I believe was a “whopping” 16KB expansion, for over a hundred bucks. I also recall dropping a few hundred bucks more for a “massive” 110MB hard disk that was certainly “more than anyone could ever fill up.” I’m happy to have lived through that era and all the technological advances that have come along in between, but I am also thankful that Moore’s Law has held!

I often wish that more operation-intensive software could once again be distilled down to machine language, eliminating bottlenecks in speed that occur with so much bloated code and the massive libraries that high-level programming uses. That would vastly reduce the need to constantly upgrade one’s computing power to perform the same tasks. Of course then the symbiotic relationship between hardware manufacturers and software developers might fade a bit.

Best one I remember is a one MB PCMIA card for storage on an HP 95 LX @ $500. Remember then, when modem access to the pre-web was per minute?

I noticed the item on Powershell earlier. I should look at it for Win 8. Perhaps for “operation-intensive” one might try shortcuts to Powershell files. I use shortcuts to *.CMDs and ActiveState Perl *.PLs.

Sidestepping the GUI may be a strategy.

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Having been around long enough to remember the “Good Ol’ Days” of DOS and TSRs, I also recall buying my first memory upgrade, which I believe was a “whopping” 16KB expansion, for over a hundred bucks. I also recall dropping a few hundred bucks more for a “massive” 110MB hard disk that was certainly “more than anyone could ever fill up.” I’m happy to have lived through that era and all the technological advances that have come along in between, but I am also thankful that Moore’s Law has held!

I often wish that more operation-intensive software could once again be distilled down to machine language, eliminating bottlenecks in speed that occur with so much bloated code and the massive libraries that high-level programming uses. That would vastly reduce the need to constantly upgrade one’s computing power to perform the same tasks. Of course then the symbiotic relationship between hardware manufacturers and software developers might fade a bit.

When I first started out, 20MB hard drives were “available”, but they cost over $2000.00, which was more than the $1995.00 that I spent on my Osborne II.

There were also 5MB hard drives, which IBM used with their mainframes for IPL (Initial Program Load), and 10MB hard drives, which I’m not sure what they were used for, but they weren’t “available”, or at least I didn’t know where to get one.

Later when I bought (and built) my Heathkit H19 computer, a 20MB hard drive was available for $695.00. If I had bought one the computer would have been the H89, but I decided to use it Floppy only and buy the hard drive later, but later when I arrived at the Heathkit store ready to spend the money, they told me that the 20MB hard drive kits to upgrade the H19 to the H89 were no longer available.

WD is talking about 6, 8, and 10TB hard drives. in a few years they will be making and selling 20TB drives, which will hold a million times more data than the 20MB hard drives that were available 30 years ago, and which will cost about 5% of what the 20MB drives did. I’m impressed.

Of course, SSDs are becoming more reliable, and cheaper. At some point They will be cheaper per byte stored, more reliable, be physically smaller, use less power, and produce less heat, vibration, and noise than spinning rust, so it’s possible that hard drives will not get to 20TB before they are technologically obsolete. Oh, well.

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When I first started out, 20MB hard drives were “available”, but they cost over $2000.00, which was more than the $1995.00 that I spent on my Osborne II.

There were also 5MB hard drives, which IBM used with their mainframes for IPL (Initial Program Load), and 10MB hard drives, which I’m not sure what they were used for, but they weren’t “available”, or at least I didn’t know where to get one.

Later when I bought (and built) my Heathkit H19 computer, a 20MB hard drive was available for $695.00. If I had bought one the computer would have been the H89, but I decided to use it Floppy only and buy the hard drive later, but later when I arrived at the Heathkit store ready to spend the money, they told me that the 20MB hard drive kits to upgrade the H19 to the H89 were no longer available.

WD is talking about 6, 8, and 10TB hard drives. in a few years they will be making and selling 20TB drives, which will hold a million times more data than the 20MB hard drives that were available 30 years ago, and which will cost about 5% of what the 20MB drives did. I’m impressed.

Of course, SSDs are becoming more reliable, and cheaper. At some point They will be cheaper per byte stored, more reliable, be physically smaller, use less power, and produce less heat, vibration, and noise than spinning rust, so it’s possible that hard drives will not get to 20TB before they are technologically obsolete. Oh, well.

I remember my first HD (10Mb on a Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 4) back in 1982 (I think it was). Partitioned into 4 * 2.5 Mb drives as the OS couldn’t handle more. I remember increasing the clock rate of said TRS-80 from 2 MHz to 3.3 MHz. What a deal! My first “big” HD was a 320Mb drive in 1990 or 1991 maybe. It cost $1500 at the time. Of course my 19″ Nanao monitor (all 85lbs of it) also cost $2K at the time.

Kevin

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When I first started out, 20MB hard drives were “available”, but they cost over $2000.00, which was more than the $1995.00 that I spent on my Osborne II.

There were also 5MB hard drives, which IBM used with their mainframes for IPL (Initial Program Load), and 10MB hard drives, which I’m not sure what they were used for, but they weren’t “available”, or at least I didn’t know where to get one.

Later when I bought (and built) my Heathkit H19 computer, a 20MB hard drive was available for $695.00. If I had bought one the computer would have been the H89, but I decided to use it Floppy only and buy the hard drive later, but later when I arrived at the Heathkit store ready to spend the money, they told me that the 20MB hard drive kits to upgrade the H19 to the H89 were no longer available.

WD is talking about 6, 8, and 10TB hard drives. in a few years they will be making and selling 20TB drives, which will hold a million times more data than the 20MB hard drives that were available 30 years ago, and which will cost about 5% of what the 20MB drives did. I’m impressed.

Of course, SSDs are becoming more reliable, and cheaper. At some point They will be cheaper per byte stored, more reliable, be physically smaller, use less power, and produce less heat, vibration, and noise than spinning rust, so it’s possible that hard drives will not get to 20TB before they are technologically obsolete. Oh, well.

I remember my first HD (10Mb on a Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 4) back in 1982 (I think it was). Partitioned into 4 * 2.5 Mb drives as the OS couldn’t handle more. I remember increasing the clock rate of said TRS-80 from 2 MHz to 3.3 MHz. What a deal! My first “big” HD was a 320Mb drive in 1990 or 1991 maybe. It cost $1500 at the time.

Kevin

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classic context start menu; you’re right I should have caught that and spelled it out

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classic context start menu; you’re right I should have caught that and spelled it out

Well, thanks; but I still think no one but you knows what you’re talking about.

The phrase “classic context start menu” has never been used before:

http://www.bing.com/search?q=%22classic+context+start+menu%22&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=%22classic+context+start+menu%22&sc=0-0&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=e101211d7f694633b2a3412251cc1bd1

https://www.google.com/#q=%22classic+context+start+menu%22

Bruce

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It’s occurs to me that I never really get into most the new features of the OS. When I moved from XP to Vista, I denied myself the “Classic” desktop, and stuck with the Vista desktop. In XP, I had stayed with the “Classic” desktop, and on moving to Vista somewhere around 2005, I felt it time to step away from Win 2000.

For me, the advantages to Win 8 are best framed as a choice between Win 7 and Win 8. In the economics of time and money, I upgrade every other Microsoft OS, or about every 6 or 7 years. The upgrade is universal, I plan on a new OS-certified computer, and upgrades for all application software and the paper printer. Acrobat is my primary printer.

For me, that gives me about two years to adjust my computing life, readjust, and begin learning about the “new” things to come, as well as the things I just never knew. These new and not-known subjects revolve around data backup/archive maintenance and strategy.

My intended advantage to choose Win 8 as compared to Win 7 has to do with straddling change. To learn and take advantage of the new, allowing for deconstruction of the old, I chose to step farther ahead. In the future, I hope it’s easier on my ongoing learning and maintenance.

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My base of Windows 8 customers is admittedly rather small (probably about 30 out of 1000) and understandably my Apple customers are even less (about 5); but since Windows 8 came out, I have removed 2 viruses from Macs and 0 viruses from Windows 8 computers running Windows Defender.

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I didn’t find a “Disadvantages of Windows 8” thread, so I read through this and…

The main advantage of Win8 is the ability of social networkers to give up their personal privacy by simply booting their PCs and logging into their MS account. This enables Microsoft to collect all your browsing history and link it to your account, among other things. Now that the new CEO says the mission of MS is “big data,” we no longer have to wonder.

Thankfully, we can run Win8 with a local account (though it is difficult and non-intuitive and therefore will not help most users) and ignore all the apps that need to know and share everything about us to work. Let’s hope the desktop version of Win9 will continue the tradition of the Personal Computer, because Windows 8 is turning the PC revolution into a Public Computer devolution. In an age when personal privacy is being voluntarily relinquished and companies are hiring and making life-altering decisions based on surreptitious data, all while the powerful in government and the private sector alike amass more and more power over the average person’s life, this is no small thing.

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I didn’t find a “Disadvantages of Windows 8” thread, so I reads through this and…

And welcome to Windows Secrets. We never seem to have enough skeptics around here, hard as some of us may work to fill the void.

I (barely) tolerate Win 8, in large part because I’m not fond of seeing corporations jerk their users around without getting burned for doing so. But since Microsoft HAS been burned and now seems to be back-pedaling appropriately I’m more seriously considering moving my activities to 8.1 (and especially 8.1.1, looking forward to what I’ve read about in 8.1.2).

And no, in no case am I or will I consider using my Microsoft account as my login: I like to keep my public life separate from my private one.

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I didn’t find a “Disadvantages of Windows 8” thread, so I read through this and…

The main advantage of Win8 is the ability of social networkers to give up their personal privacy by simply booting their PCs and logging into their MS account. This enables Microsoft to collect all your browsing history and link it to your account, among other things. Now that the new CEO says the mission of MS is “big data,” we no longer have to wonder.

Thankfully, we can run Win8 with a local account (though it is difficult and non-intuitive and therefore will not help most users) and ignore all the apps that need to know and share everything about us to work. Let’s hope the desktop version of Win9 will continue the tradition of the Personal Computer, because Windows 8 is turning the PC revolution into a Public Computer devolution. In an age when personal privacy is being voluntarily relinquished and companies are hiring and making life-altering decisions based on surreptitious data, all while the powerful in government and the private sector alike amass more and more power over the average person’s life, this is no small thing.

There are many ways to see our internet world. Or ‘social media’. Or ‘privacy’. Or ‘security’. In the last year, went through three books which I relate to much of the fluff and fancy of our media fancy world. Will loop back to them in a bit.

First, a curmudgeon’s viewpoint on doing Windows 8, and into Windows 8.1 Update – Microsoft and it’s partners, developers of software and hardware, have been very generous and patient with Windows XP end users. Thirteen years of support is a long time. One might say Microsoft’s respect for the end-user has hurt it’s stock price. I don’t own the stock and don’t play the market, but I believe much of what serves as choice for us consumers is driven by the 70% stock market volume of institutional buyers, and they want/need churn, not more of the same. I bet they saw Windows 8 in it’s two-faced form as great possibilities, not respect for long-time Windows XP end-users. As an end-user, my move to Win 8, like my move to Vista, was basically maintenance of my ability to compute in a contemporary way plus respectful support for my reliable suppliers, Microsoft and Windows certified vendors. In my child mind, voting with my wallet makes a difference.

Second, for me, social media is too expensive. Except for flickr.com. I have little time after work, shopping, cooking, bookkeeping, long-form readings, and yard work. I chose a dumb phone and no internet. I no longer have a TV. But, I have moments to stop and smell the flowers, and humbly acknowledge my ignorance of many current media tsunamis.

And third, I believe in personal computing. I do not feel much of the internet buzz has to do with personal computing. For me, personal computing has to do with a stand-alone computer at home and continuing education, not purchases or training. So, I do not accept “Windows 8 is turning the PC revolution into a Public Computer devolution.” I would blame either the marketer’s view of the blob of internet users, or internet users themselves. As a desktop user, at least Windows 8 provides me with some low cost exposure to another mindset.

I read the following three books after presentations on booktv.org. Purchased at my local brick-n-mortar ignoring price differentials. For some, the contents are unrelated. I understand that. But it’s more fun for me to include the internet as part of my scifi ecology. Like observations for science and questions in philosophy. The links below are links to the presentation videos.
1) “Dragnet Nation: A Quest for Privacy, Security, and Freedom in a World of Relentless Surveillance” Julia Angwin
http://www.booktv.org/Program/15479/quotDragnet+Nation+A+Quest+for+Privacy+Security+and+Freedom+in+a+World+of+Relentless+Surveillancequot.aspx
Julia Angwin is not preachy. I liked that.
2) “The News: A User’s Manual” Alain de Botton
http://www.booktv.org/Program/15465/quotThe+News+A+Users+Manualquot.aspx
Alain de Botton is kinda preachy, but his iconoclastic relationships are flavorful.
3) “Who Owns the Future?” Jaron Lanier
http://www.booktv.org/Program/14601/quotWho+Owns+the+Futurequot.aspx
Jaron Lanier is preaching to the choir. Odd, but intriguing.

If you’re still with me, try this essay –
The Eternal Mainframe
http://throwww.com/a/7bn
Rudolf Winestock
“Computer science essay. The revolution has come full circle: from time-sharing on mainframes in the university, to personal computers in the home, and back again to time-sharing on mainframes in the cloud. It’s also a story about the gain and loss of freedom and privacy. In the era of personal computing we owned our data and our software. In the era of cloud computing we don’t, and even our hardware is remote-controlled” … found at thebrowser.com.

Have a nice day.
Muchos mahalos.

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And third, I believe in personal computing. I do not feel much of the internet buzz has to do with personal computing. For me, personal computing has to do with a stand-alone computer at home and continuing education, not purchases or training. So, I do not accept “Windows 8 is turning the PC revolution into a Public Computer devolution.” I would blame either the marketer’s view of the blob of internet users, or internet users themselves. As a desktop user, at least Windows 8 provides me with some low cost exposure to another mindset.

Yes, I tend to agree with all you said. However, let me clarify my earlier post with respect to this paragraph of yours. It is indeed the Facebooks, Googles, et al, and their users, who are to blame for this headlong rush to give up all privacy, but my point was that MS is clearly heading in the same direction with Windows, and rapidly. Read up on their new CEO…his aim is to focus MS on “big data.”

If you read Tim Berners-Lee and Vint Cerf (I assume we all know who they are), they think we need a new Internet, with technology that defaults to protecting our data with point-to-point encryption. If we don’t fight for it though, it will not happen. The U.S. is already way behind Europe in privacy…our “Safe Harbor” approach makes a mockery of our great Constitution, which is rapidly becoming a meaningless paper tiger, without so much as a wimper from the people.

The Internet is perhaps the greatest technological advance in human history. Social networking is wonderful. I am not against it…that would be stupid. I am against the headlong rush to do these things without thought for how to do it right and well, while protecting basic human rights that we have forever taken for granted – and therefore do not adequately appreciate to protect. What we have now is a real disaster, and in my opinion, users are generally not well-informed nor aware of what data is being collected on them, who has access to it, and how it can be used against their interests.

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…
The Internet is perhaps the greatest technological advance in human history. Social networking is wonderful. I am not against it…that would be stupid. I am against the headlong rush to do these things without thought for how to do it right and well, while protecting basic human rights that we have forever taken for granted – and therefore do not adequately appreciate to protect. What we have now is a real disaster, and in my opinion, users are generally not well-informed nor aware of what data is being collected on them, who has access to it, and how it can be used against their interests.

Like many other ‘innovations’, once it’s out of the box, creative and resourceful minds find unexpected applications. Some enhance the common good, some don’t. Consider fast food – breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Best you or I can do is to try to help the ones who are open to being helped. Remember the parable about giving a man a fish, or teaching him to fish. Some don’t care to learn. Some might appreciate it. All men are different. Best you can do is to keep trying.

My nephew asked me about doing a website. I asked him some questions. I’ve tried to begin with the vocabulary. I created three mini-examples assuming he would eventually fall into some content management system, and I hoped to at least lay some groundwork with vocabulary. I have experience with Plone and WordPress, and also handcode HTML and CSS off the file system. I was unsuccessful. I think he still likes me, but his schedule has other priorities.

I had a math professor who once told our class that “Learning is retrogressive.” Not “was”, but “is”. I think so. But the hard part for you and me, and all who would like to ‘protect’ our friends and loved ones, is to keep them open to more than “easy-to-use”, “user friendly”, and “free”. So back to retrogressive and the common good, think ‘driving a car’ or ‘swimming in the ocean’, the best we can hope for, is to inject a little more respect for the ecosystem. Like respect for Mother Nature. S*** happens. So two steps forward, one step back, two steps forward, one step back, and so on.

Try the Julia Angwin book. Two starting points – What is your threat model?, see Chapter 5; and Know your data?, see Chapter 6. If and when you have an opportunity, take people to the basics. I’m still waiting for this opportunity with my nephew. He’s in healthcare. He’s swimming in all kinds of potentials, whether he acknowledges it or not.

Take care.

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All the above 5 items are true but there are still other problems . I feel that they took an excellent system but moved everything to a different place and then renamed everything to something you don’t expect. Doing tasks like making a recovery disc has become complicated for nothing as is putting shortcuts on the desktop. I am a part time tech all my clients are about 60 and up ( as am I) I can figure out how to repair win 8.1 but its not easy ,my clients are lost in this system . For people who have win XP and want security I am recommending refab win 7 computers available in Montreal at very attractive prices .I cannot recommend win 8.1 to them and feel comfortable.

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All the above 5 items are true but there are still other problems . I feel that they took an excellent system but moved everything to a different place and then renamed everything to something you don’t expect. Doing tasks like making a recovery disc has become complicated for nothing as is putting shortcuts on the desktop. I am a part time tech all my clients are about 60 and up ( as am I) I can figure out how to repair win 8.1 but its not easy ,my clients are lost in this system . For people who have win XP and want security I am recommending refab win 7 computers available in Montreal at very attractive prices .I cannot recommend win 8.1 to them and feel comfortable.

My biggest gripe with every one of Microsoft’s products – from their OSes to their applications – has been their apparent desire to disrupt everyone’s workflow. As some Loungers have pointed out, enthusiasts or gamers may revel in these frequent changes, giving them many opportunities to try “cool” new things.

For those of us who actually use our computers to be productive, it is important to develop a rhythm to our workflow. Altering interfaces that users are quite comfortable with by scrambling the menus, adding “Ribbons”, obtuse features or obscure function is not helpful at all. Frankly, it’s no different than telling touch typists (OK, keyboardists) that they have to switch back and forth between QWERTY and DVORAK keyboards, or that they must (or must not) use a trendy, split, ergonomic keyboard. It is simply an impediment to being productive.

If developers feel the need to innovate and “improve” interfaces, a better way to do it would be to keep the original layout and functions intact and accessible by default, but have the option to switch to or incorporate the new features of their own volition – not having them shoved down their throats. If the “new and improved” features and functions are as wonderful as the developers believe, I have no doubt that users will migrate in droves. If not, we could all still remain productive.

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This was supposed to be a reply to David Wolf back on page 2…guess I did something wrong there .

Yes, David…I believe that you have this right. I have just installed my first Win8 PC (for my wife). What MS does with each release (although I understand “why” they do it) is equivalent to going to the supermarket and finding that they have moved EVERY aisle somewhere else. So, before people criticize me for not being current or not wanting to change, I worked in the IT field since 1966 and retired last year from a three letter Government agency. I have worked on “most” platforms, developed software in “many” different languages over those years therefore, believe me are more used to change than most people. The last 15 years or so were spent on IBM mainframes where “consistency” is key. OS upgrades go in and everything previously just works (for the most part ).

Back to Win8…..when I first “customized” the Win8 PC (after the first boot)…I noticed the part about about logging on to an “outlook.com” account and did that (although I would rather have had a local account). Yes, I now know that you can…let me explain….I “converted” the outlook.com account (my wife) to a local account. Win8 then refused to take either the new password or the old one (and at that time I had only one account on the PC (which by that time was hosed up – I guess I won’t do that again). Yes, I was sure about the new password. I spent about 3 hours downloading multiple “password reset” pieces of software (none of which worked as they didn’t even recognize Win8.1 as the OS). Eventually, I said “fuggedaboutit” and put the PC back to as delivered and re-installed everything I had done over the previous few days. Even getting the PC to bring up “system recovery” was something of a problem. Nothing delivered by HP (in this case) drew my attention to the vagaries of which function keys should be used to get into “system recovery” or the vagaries of turning off “secure boot” before doing it.

Rant over…

Kevin

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The 8.1 Update being established as the new baseline for further updates seems to have caught MS flatfooted as well, giving enterprise another 90 days to test and deploy before enforcement after what must have been a small but vociferous hue and cry.

The subject was broached on Windows Weekly and this was thought to be something MS has to address if they’re going to go forward with such short update/upgrade cycles because MS does have a history of messing things up update-wise on occasion.

That might qualify as an advantage and disadvantage at the same time, like the Chinese saying (I believe); May you live in interesting times.

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I am glad to see some mild to strong supporters of W8 commenting here. I am among the latter, but think MS made a big mistake in getting 8 to default to Metro/Modern, that they have partly rectified under 8.1. Once you boot to the desktop and set up your taskbar and toolbars, it seems to be better, quicker and more secure than 7. You can also minimise the unwanted emergence of the charms bar, and finally kill the on-screen keyboard icon which is of zero use to anyone with a physical keyboard.

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I am glad to see some mild to strong supporters of W8 commenting here. I am among the latter, but think MS made a big mistake in getting 8 to default to Metro/Modern, that they have partly rectified under 8.1. Once you boot to the desktop and set up your taskbar and toolbars, it seems to be better, quicker and more secure than 7. You can also minimise the unwanted emergence of the charms bar, and finally kill the on-screen keyboard icon which is of zero use to anyone with a physical keyboard.

I think that certainly would have gone a long (most) way toward mitigating the negative response to Win 8. Infiltrate rather than bulldoze; problem is as a historic monopoly, Microsoft seems only to know how to bulldoze. I just decided I like that word, bulldoze…no, it has nothing to do with a sleeping bull.
Regardless, folks who like W8 original seemed to think that was such a non-issue but it brought about ALL the extra and needless U.I. changes to accommodate the so-called unifying U.I. Microsoft was after. Problem with that is that touch is NOT a replacement technology; it is an alternate technology that fits it’s own usage niche, just as wireless mouse and keyboard fits it’s niche.
It’s good to see someone from the “other” side who understands the same thing! :p

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Well, color me a Neanderthal!
What I love the most about every new Windows OS is the fact that there is respect for both LEGACY hardware and LEGACY software!

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… To where we are now, playing catch-up, playing cat-n-mouse. And, at long last, saying we should be pro-active not, reactive. So does that mean the wheel should be re-invented…Redone knowing what we didn’t back in the day and now make an internet where privacy isn’t a worry. Is it possible? Or will underbellies be discovered same as the 1st time and we, still, be dogs chasing tails?

Drew

Hmmm ….

Bill Gates: The Rolling Stone Interview
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/bill-gates-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140313?curator=MediaREDEF
Jeff Goodell | Rolling Stone | 13th March 2014

He may well be “the most optimistic” man alive, as well as the richest. He sees the world as a “giant operating system” that “just needs to be debugged”, and his charitable foundation is on the case. Topics include surveillance, public health, inequality, Microsoft, Apple, America. “Say you’re gay in America, would you go back 50 years? Say you’re sick in America, do you want to go back 50 years? I mean, who are we kidding?” (6,400 words)

Cheers.

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Why do people buy new cars? Or new TVs? Or new anything? Many reasons – the item being replaced no longer works satisfactorily, the new item offers something more / better, there are legal or safety issues and on and on. In the end, it is a personal decision

What I don’t understand is all the angst and rending of garments over MS creating a new OS that isn’t exactly like Win 7. Both Apple and Google have had great success creating tablet and smartphone product lines that bring many “computer” features to smaller, portable devices. These products rely primarily on touch. As they become more powerful, many owners are using them more and using their traditional computers less. MS had no meaningful participation in this changing technology scene. They could either do nothing, or develop their own integrated line of products & software to compete with Apple & Google. It makes perfect sense to me. We are already seeing a variety of “convertible” PCs coming to market, that allow users to separate the display from the keyboard or stand and use it as a tablet – or reconnect it and use the device as a traditional desktop or laptop. To me, this is an exciting (and overdue) initiative by MS to remain relevant in our changing computer landscape.

Back in January 2013 I was a happy Win 7 user. MS was offering an upgrade to Win 8 Pro (a $199 value) for $39.99. At that price, why not give it a try? So, I upgraded my laptop and started the learning curve. Bought a reference book. Liked what I saw, so I took advantage of the MS offer to upgrade my desktop. Subsequently upgraded to Win 8.1. Bought Woody’s 8.1 Dummies book. Still like it. Would I have upgraded at the full price? No. Nor should anyone else with decent hardware who is happy with Win 7. But if you need a new PC, or want to take advantage of the flexibility of the new convertible PC offerings, go for it. You get two ways of computing for the price of one.

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I’ll add that when the internet was born few saw what was coming. In the day security, hacker, piracy, bots, root-kits, worms, Trojans, malware, adware, spyware, none of this was front & centre as it is now. The whole trip of firewalls and multi-level, redundant, protection…even data storage & data recovery. It has all bubbled to the surface as we started using this internet thing.

So, gee, if it wasn’t discovered that the thing is not Fort Knox. It vulnerable, it has flaws, a weak points and holes in it. Realising that precipitated all kinds of things. To where we are now, playing catch-up, playing cat-n-mouse. And, at long last, saying we should be pro-active not, reactive. So does that mean the wheel should be re-invented…Redone knowing what we didn’t back in the day and now make an internet where privacy isn’t a worry. Is it possible? Or will underbellies be discovered same as the 1st time and we, still, be dogs chasing tails?

Now, that we are so wise & enlightened, is the ideal attainable? Or must we keep dealing w/ the challenges of this. If we started over, could we, at this stage and is it worth it?

Drew

Excellent post. I would add that the “powers that be” do not want it to change. The current “user data as income” model is very lucrative for some.

imo, it will change. All they’re talking about is encryption being the default standard for data. It’s a matter of how long. Then there will be new issues, of course.

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You know we can talk technical details for hours. We can dispute feature-sets for days. Argue & debate, enthusiasm & praise, negativity & cynicism. OR it can be discussed on a very personal, daily use level…

… Either way, I have found Win8 fun, easy, enjoyable, impressive and, for me @ least, problem free. Absolutely, I recommend it and the recent Updates make it more appealing to people than ever.

… Yes, it’s the best OS MS has produced. Whilst it can be said perception is subjective, an IT Pro has to be objective and fair. 2 years ago I said much of the views on Windows 8 were a matter of attitude, I, still, firmly believe that. Taking a very open-minded approach I have been left w/ a very positive feeling towards the OS. It’s good, fun, easy and, for me (& many others) downright enjoyable.

Cheers,
Drew

I agree with a different attitude. Not because Win 8 is a better OS, but because Win 8 is trying harder to place itself in the future.

I look at Win 8.1 Update at home, and think about work where I expect seismic transitions in the upcoming years. I work for a state government, and I guess there are many XP-originated client-server applications across the various ‘business’ units. A couple years ago, a modernization project went into place.

I guess it’s 50-50 that my workplace will move to a Win 7 standard client in the next couple of years. So back in May 2013, when I decided on Win 8, my main question was simply “Should I choose an OS for my future, or my workplace?”

There was no question about staying with Windows, but which one?

In terms of my workplace, although I presume Windows will continue, because of my prior worklifes, and because of client-server and the cloud, I think what I learn on my own with respect to sitting at a client node at home is irrelevant in terms of the OS at work. If I was a network administrator, the network OS would matter, but I’m not.

The advantage of Win 8.1 Update over Win 7, in my ‘personal computing’ eyes has little to do with elements of the user interface I use, but how my user interface plugs me into the network applications, and tomorrow’s cloud-based apps.

I don’t liken Microsoft’s introduction of Win 8 to Vista or ME. I see Win 8’s introduction like the appearance of IE 6. I see Win 8 as more important to Microsoft’s network apps like server and sql server. Whether it’s intranet or internet. In this vein, what lies beneath the user interface is more important to Microsoft and the enterprise.

Did Office 365 come out before or after Win 8?

One might say I saw Win 7 as a compromise with it’s feet in XP, and now, Win 8.1 Update as not. For me, the compromise did not promise any new advantage.

Not to mention Microsoft’s three year product cycle. So I thought, “Which position would I rather be in when 2015 Win 9 appears?”

Win 8’s advantage for me? It’s a better gamble.

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“Which position would I rather be in when 2015 Win 9 appears?”

I had hopes for Windows 9 pulling it back to center, but in fact, now I think it will just be more of the same.

As to the point that you are trying to make, that suffering through three years of Windows 8 (one more year now) will somehow put you in a better position to take advantage of Windows 9’s benefits, I don’t think so. It will be easier to transition from Windows 7 to Windows 9 than to transition from Windows 7 to Windows 8 to Windows 9.

In any case when Windows 9 is released, I expect to stay with Windows 7, and reap the benefits of … Windows 7.

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It will be easier to transition from Windows 7 to Windows 9 than to transition from Windows 7 to Windows 8 to Windows 9.

Why? (Seems strange if you think Windows 9 is going to be similar to Windows 8.)

I suffered more on Windows 7 than Windows 8.

Bruce

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Why? (Seems strange if you think Windows 9 is going to be similar to Windows 8.)

I suffered more on Windows 7 than Windows 8.

Bruce

Hello Bruce ‘Super Moderator’,

Pardon my somewhat off-topic question here, but I now question my assumption that Windows 8.1 Update would aid my education about ‘apps’. And I’m embarrassed to start a new thread.

What is an app? I searched on ‘what is a microsoft app’, and read some Microsoft Store materials, but it’s remains unclear.

Question: Does an app require a live internet connection to be fully-functional? Eg. a web application with the ‘View’ on my device, and ‘Model’ and ‘Controller’ somewhere on the internet.

Question: If the answer is no, when I’m at the Microsoft Store, how would I identify these ‘no internet required’ apps? Or, what about the apps included with Win 8?

By the way, my periodic and cursory scans of the available apps have never inspired my interest.

Thanks in advance.

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…
Question: Does an app require a live internet connection to be fully-functional? Eg. a web application with the ‘View’ on my device, and ‘Model’ and ‘Controller’ somewhere on the internet.
…

I tried three apps – Help+Tips, News, and Photos. Twice – with and w/out internet.
Help+Tips runs without the internet.
News continues to display content even without internet.
Photos runs without the internet.

Tried People and Calendar with internet but not logged-in with a Microsoft account. No diceee.

Seems like a mixed bag. One complication – I never store things under my user name in c:, but outside, in d:. An old habit. Took a minute to find the photos I took. Figured it out.

Does an app require a live internet connection? @ It depends.

Does an app description mention internet connection requirements? @ No description, just like desktop apps. Is there an equivalent to a “404” code? No. Are their informational messages if there is no internet connection? Either initially, or indirectly by requesting log-in into your Microsoft account.

For things like the News, aside from selection, I was not able to highlight and copy text. For me, that’s a negative.

Otherwise, Help+Tips and Photo were innocent enough.

Well, as far as apps in Win 8 are concerned, I’ll accept the good, Win 8.1 Update, along with the uninteresting.

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For things like the News, aside from selection, I was not able to highlight and copy text. For me, that’s a negative.

I’m not sure what “aside from selection” means.

I just copied and pasted text from a News app article.

Bruce

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…For things like the News, aside from selection, I was not able to highlight and copy text. For me, that’s a negative….

I’m not sure what “aside from selection” means. I just copied and pasted text from a News app article.Bruce

I normally get my news the old Windows method of going to websites. But the FlipBoard app is a fairly nice news aggregate for top level news scanning. Yet as calamari asked Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V is not readily achievable for text (or for other content) when I am at FlipBoard, as the intent of such aggregates are not usually as full-featured as reading news via web html news feeds. I feel your pain. But just for giggles, i used an article that was in FlipBoard for curiosity’ sake that the content was not copyable and went back to the old trusted web/html method, upon googling the same article subject (plus name of website) and opened it in my trusted Firefox and schzaaam, I was able to copy the text the old and trusted method.
Similarly, there are equivalent challenges even between FireFox and IE. For example, in IE, you can readily right click on a web site and command to ‘send’ (shortcut of html) page to desktop, with 3 clicks; where as with FireFox this action will take you many more clicks to achieve. Such minor nuances and differences are to be expected.
The newer versions of Microsoft Office applications, which utilize the ribbon bar, have also made it rather difficult to perform some of the (vital) commands for power users that were just a pull down menu away.
I would just build a bridge and get over them, If I was you calamari .

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I’m not sure what “aside from selection” means.

I just copied and pasted text from a News app article.

Bruce

Acknowledging another Win 8 advantage. But first, the reply.

Bruce R – My error. With a different app, I was able to highlight, copy, and then paste text. Tried a page in News again, was able to Copy+Paste. Not sure why I couldn’t do it before. Must have been a SMUE, stupid moron user error. Thanks for the reply.

With respect to advantages, for me with no experience with a touch interface, Win 8 basic apps and my first stroke-able touchpad has exposed me to previously unknown user interface experiences.

This is an advantage to Win 8. For me, it’s a better value than a smart phone or pad with touch and internet. With this perspective, plus my requirement for an everyday “desktop” machine, the no-frills $289 no-touchscreen HP laptop with Win 8 back in May 2013 has been justified.

I think it was Fred Langa who suggested the touchpad may replace the mouse in the workplace. Maybe. It may be “cheaper” to do mouse and touchpad vs. mouse and touchscreen.

Have a good weekend.

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I think it will be a long time before anything replaces the mouse and keyboard. Touch is different and has advantages, by is no means “better.” In fact, it is so far a lot worse for manipulating small elements such as the controls of a music DAW for example, than a mouse. Once very high quality touch interfaces come down in price, and we can afford large touch interfaces for such workstations, that’s when things will start popping with touch in the professional world. That’s still at least a year or two out.

I haven’t figured out how to copy a link to a news article app. Anybody? This is driving me nuts!

Woody has been saying that MS might offer three distinct Windows 9 versions, including a desktop keyboard/mouse version. If so, then Windows 8 will not be helpful in preparing desktop jockeys for Windows 9. It will be helpful for Windows tablet users of course.

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I think it will be a long time before anything replaces the mouse and keyboard. Touch is different and has advantages, by is no means “better.” In fact, it is so far a lot worse for manipulating small elements such as the controls of a music DAW for example, than a mouse. Once very high quality touch interfaces come down in price, and we can afford large touch interfaces for such workstations, that’s when things will start popping with touch in the professional world. That’s still at least a year or two out.

I haven’t figured out how to copy a link to a news article app. Anybody? This is driving me nuts!

….

… replace mouse? I agree, I do left-hand keyboard and right-hand mouse often. I do not want to give that up. I suspect such a practice is low priority for touch.

… copy a link to a new article? Good question. I was unable to figure it out either. Maybe feedback to Microsoft will help.

How do I give feedback about the Bing News app?
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/news-app-faq
Your feedback is important to us, and we are always looking for ways to improve the app. Here’s how you can contact us:
Swipe in from the right edge of the screen or enter Windows logo key+C on the keyboard.
Tap or click Settings and select About.
Tap or click Feedback.
Enter your feedback in the form and tap or click Submit.

For me, doing “News” at my laptop, the “News” app seems to offer my usage patterns no additional utility. If the “News” app depends on RSS, I will remain with Thunderbird RSS, or Firefox bookmarks, instead.

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Windows 8 is also more maintenance free. It includes an automatic maintenance feature.

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Thanks for the idea about feedback. it wasn’t long ago I couldn’t find any way to leave feedback about Windows 8. Now (perhaps with the new CEO?), I’m glad to see MS is looking for input from the masses.

I like the news apps, but they need to have more utility – to not be able to link to an article seems oddly backward in this day and age.

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Thanks for the idea about feedback. it wasn’t long ago I couldn’t find any way to leave feedback about Windows 8. Now (perhaps with the new CEO?), I’m glad to see MS is looking for input from the masses.

…

Aside from Windows’ share of the desktop market, remember when Microsoft speaks of it’s ‘partners’, that’s application developers and hardware vendors.

Like print newspapers, over-the-air radio, or rabbit-ear TV, ‘partners’ and end-users are not always the same. It may be that the omission of the functionality you desire was on-purpose.

In case your experience with above-mentioned ‘Feedback’ is not satisfactory, try surfing around msdn.microsoft.com too. Maybe you can get your voice heard there also.

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…The text highlight is showing Copy/Paste feasibility….

Must we beg for the method to do so? Would you liked to earn a few “Thanks”?????? :^_^:

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Did you actually try to paste, wherever? Just wondering because for some reason Windows media player, though it will still play an audio file, it will not show up on the screen and will not play video so I gave the Music app a try and I can’t even drag and drop an audio file from a standard folder. Seems I can only open a file with the context menu (Open with…) directly on the file. I say “can’t even” because I’m using the app on a second screen and there’s more about how non-cooperative at least this app is…lets just say its working worse than the Windows media player at the moment!

Never mind, I just tried it and at least it worked with Wordpad. :p Still, I don’t think there’s anything that can be taken for granted with apps when it comes to associated desktop tasks that we don’t even consider for the most part anymore.

For instance, is there any way to use One Note app without switching over and using a Microsoft account? I get funneled right to switching to a Microsoft account every time I try to use it.

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It is identical to any Copy/Paste scenario. Highlight a section of text (See photo). Rt Clk on the highlighted portion gives Copy. Now go to wherever & Paste. Just a normal C/P, nothing different or special to it.

I have tried it with multiple news ‘apps’ and I guess the Ctrl+C/Ctrl+P capabilities have to be built-in to the app by the developer.
NYTimes app allows Ctrl+C/Ctrl+P; whereas FlipBoard, NewsBento, USAToday do not allow highlighting of text and/or images.
But thank you for your explanation.
My post replies (difficulties with Copy/Paste) in #65 and #67 are in reference to the Win8 MetroGUI “Apps” and not in reference to desktop applications/utilities, including web browsers (e.g. IE and FireFox).

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I have tried it with multiple news ‘apps’ and I guess the Ctrl+C/Ctrl+P capabilities have to be built-in to the app by the developer.
NYTimes app allows Ctrl+C/Ctrl+P; whereas FlipBoard, NewsBento, USAToday do not allow highlighting of text and/or images.

I think that’s spot on; it’s like they are all stand alone apps built from the ground up and can’t rely on DLLs or .net or anything like that, whether or not that’s true. So apps are like a box of chocolates because you never know what you’ll get exactly.

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I have tried it with multiple news ‘apps’ and I guess the Ctrl+C/Ctrl+P capabilities have to be built-in to the app by the developer.
NYTimes app allows Ctrl+C/Ctrl+P; whereas FlipBoard, NewsBento, USAToday do not allow highlighting of text and/or images.

In the USAToday app, I held down the shift key and left-clicked and was able to select text. Then I used Ctrl+C and was able to paste in Wordpad.

Rich

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Disabling R-Clk in desktop browsers is an additional DRM feature so to me that’s preventing function instead of being incapable of that function.

If you use Firefox, you can install the “RightToClick” add-on to do as you wish.

In the USAToday app, I held down the shift key and left-clicked and was able to select text. Then I used Ctrl+C and was able to paste in Wordpad.

That did not work for me, as you prescribed but I did find out that if I use the Alt key while scrolling (in MetroGUI); it slows down the scroll speed (of the cursor) for better accuracy! Woot!

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Cut and paste worked fine for me albeit in notepad. So did Windows Media player, both with audio and video. Tried the Music app, listening to Cap’n Beefheart right now (got from clicking on Collection). But drag’n’drop doesn’t seem to work, but as you can run stuff from collection….

Haven’t got Onenote but as it syncs across all your devices surely it would need you to login. But at least it’s free!

Eliminate spare time: start programming PowerShell

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Cut and paste worked fine for me albeit in notepad. So did Windows Media player, both with audio and video. Tried the Music app, listening to Cap’n Beefheart right now (got from clicking on Collection). But drag’n’drop doesn’t seem to work, but as you can run stuff from collection….

Haven’t got Onenote but as it syncs across all your devices surely it would need you to login. But at least it’s free!

I wouldn’t mind logging in (in fact I tried that several times) so much…it’s the seeming requirement that the account must be converted to a Microsoft account first if it is only a local account. First the local account password is prompted then it switches over to Microsoft account credentials prompt to switch to that account.

Can the Music app load a “collection” from a network location? I mostly listen to podcasts downloaded to a different computer, which are constantly renewed in a staggered order over the course of the week depending on the production/release schedule of each podcast. Some are also multiple per day releases. So, do collections update automatically on a selected folder hierarchy…for a network share? I’m away from the W8 machine right now so I’ll have to look into that later but knowing how short apps can be on features, my hopes are not high.

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To tie back this tangent (off-topic) conversation to the original intent of the post:
The fact that WindowsOSs have always allowed much flexibility for the user to customize and tweak both the front and the back end of the Operating System, makes them very desirable for me (vis-a-vis Apple _and/or Linux) without doing these tasks using code or console/command modes.
There are some sites that still disable right-click capabilities on their pages even in the desktop IE web-browser. But having the flexibility to install other browsers (such as Firefox) allow for work-arounds for such restrictions that prevent (forinstance) copy/paste.
The latest updates (Windows8.1 and 8.1.1) are attempting to align the Metro GUI interface with the flexibility and capabilities similar to the Desktop, as time passes.
This was the original reason that I had posted

Well, color me a Neanderthal! What I love the most about every new Windows OS is the fact that there is respect for both LEGACY hardware and LEGACY software!

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To tie back this tangent (off-topic) conversation to the original intent of the post:
The fact that WindowsOSs have always allowed much flexibility for the user to customize and tweak both the front and the back end of the Operating System, makes them very desirable for me (vis-a-vis Apple _and/or Linux) without doing these tasks using code or console/command modes.
There are some sites that still disable right-click capabilities on their pages even in the desktop IE web-browser. But having the flexibility to install other browsers (such as Firefox) allow for work-arounds for such restrictions that prevent (forinstance) copy/paste.
The latest updates (Windows8.1 and 8.1.1) are attempting to align the Metro GUI interface with the flexibility and capabilities similar to the Desktop, as time passes.
This was the original reason that I had posted

In my six months or so of using Ubuntu Linux, my tweaking has migrated from Command Line (Terminal) code to tweaking using GUI Apps (even for customizing the GRUB Preboot Screen), much like in Windows. Modern desktop Linux is very customizable without ever touching the Command Line or editing System or Configuration Files by hand. And as for respect for legacy hardware and legacy software — don’t get me started!

-- rc primak

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Disabling R-Clk in desktop browsers is an additional DRM feature so to me that’s preventing function instead of being incapable of that function.

Speaking of which, I tried collections in Music app, it showed me all my network computers right off, but no go for getting into any of them. So, I added the podcast location as a mapped drive; popped right up on the collections list…and…and…”This location cannot be included because it can’t be indexed.” Another long walk off a short pier for an app.

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@BobPrimak,
So,… What I am hearing you say is that we won’t have the pleasure of reading your post’ replies in this forum for much longer and/or as often.
It sounds like you will be migrating on to [errrrrr…] ‘snowy’ pastures where penguins roam.
Legacy topic not withstanding, of course!
Bon Voyage!

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@BobPrimak,
So,… What I am hearing you say is that we won’t have the pleasure of reading your post’ replies in this forum for much longer and/or as often.
It sounds like you will be migrating on to [errrrrr…] ‘snowy’ pastures where penguins roam.
Legacy topic not withstanding, of course!
Bon Voyage!

Not so fast! I have Windows 7 in a dual-boot with Ubuntu 14.04.

Yes, I use Linux a lot more than I use Windows, but no I have not lost interest in Windows topics. In fact, I am reading everything I can find about Windows 9 development and the possible restoration of the real desktop, etc.

My goal is to have what for me is the best tool for each type of task I do. Some things go better with Win 7 (and hopefully Win 9 on the desktop). Tablets offer marvelous mobility, and there Android (a flavor of Linux if you scratch the surface) offers the most robust and best-populated App environment for what I want from a tablet. Streaming Video and On Demand would be best suited for tablet use (perhaps with one of those HDMI sticks to extend things to my HDTV) in my world. And Linux for the day to day workhorse applications like LibreOffice, email, web surfing, commenting in tech forums. Anything where I want to get booted, get in and get out quickly with minimum hassle from antivirus or updates. (Linux updates are fast and happen in the background almost all the time.)

The right tool for the right job. That’s all I’m after. All three OSes — Linux, Android and Windows — should one day find their proper places in my personal computing ecosystem.

I got into Linux because I had such a hard time adjusting to the two-headed Hydra of Windows 8.0. But this does NOT mean I have given up on Windows altogether.

Sorry, but you folks will have to put up with my presence in The Lounge for awhile longer, it seems!

-- rc primak

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I don’t understand – the desktop on Win 8 works perfectly well; I use all my old programs (and some new ones) without issue. All that’s different is the loss of the awful win menu, replaced by the win 8 start screen, which I’ve fixed to give me what I want.

Eliminate spare time: start programming PowerShell

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I don’t understand…

Think of it this way:
*Linux users are the alternative lifestyle and individualistic types (Subaru Forester and/or Volvo SUV)
*Apple users like to be catered to and have someone else figure out geeky details (BMW and/or Prius)
*Windows users are the meat-and-potato bunch but are becoming more fickle/finicky (Ford F150, Chevy Silverado but not both)
No insult to any type!

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Think of it this way:
*Linux users are the alternative lifestyle and individualistic types (Subaru Forester and/or Volvo SUV)
*Apple users like to be catered to and have someone else figure out geeky details (BMW and/or Prius)
*Windows users are the meat-and-potato bunch but are becoming more fickle/finicky (Ford F150, Chevy Silverado but not both)
No insult to any type!

I drive a Prius and I do Linux. Am I somehow driving the wrong car?

As for the Start Menu vs. the Modern/Metro Start Screen — the right tool for the right job. If you’re using Tablet Apps, the Start Screen seems right. If you’re using Desktop Programs, the old Start Menu seems to me to be much more useful. And if I really just want to get in, get my work done, and get out, Ubuntu Linux is my go-to environment. (I prefer Android for Tablet Apps, due to the more robust Google Play Store, but again, the right tool for the right job.)

Others may prefer different tools, but I think everyone has a favorite environment for a particular type of task. Now if only all those environments came in the same version of just one OS. Maybe with Windows 9?

BTW, one of our local computer isntructors who works with seniors pasted a label saying “ANY” on one of the Shift Keys on a student’s computer!

-- rc primak

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I don’t understand

Those who can understand do understand,
those who do not understand cannot understand
Lao Tsu

the desktop on Win 8 works perfectly well; I use all my old programs (and some new ones) without issue.

It may work perfectly well for you, but it has failed to run some old programs that other people need, and it is less useful without a Start Menu.

All that’s different is the loss of the awful win menu

The Windows XP and Windows 7 Start Menus are not awful, and are quite useful for those who understand how to use them.

replaced by the win 8 start screen, which I’ve fixed to give me what I want.

The windows 8 Start Screen is only useful if you want to use Windows 8 phone and tablet apps, which a lot of people don’t want to do.

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The windows 8 Start Screen is only useful if you want to use Windows 8 phone and tablet apps, .

I was actually being a bit joky, but obviously failed, so I’m obviously a DeLorean/Ford Edsel

I don’t like the start menu, you do. These are preferences to which we are entitled, not absolute statements of fact. What is a fact is that the start screen isn’t just for phone and tablet apps. I have links to many of my desktop apps (and a few of those other apps as well) and I can easily find any I’ve not put on it. I like the start screen, you don’t, those are our preferences, but please don’t make statements that aren’t true, like yours which I’ve quoted above.

This is the last comment I shall make in this thread.

Eliminate spare time: start programming PowerShell

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… so I’m obviously a DeLorean/Ford Edsel…

In the past, I have owned every Mazda version that had a rotary (Wankel) engine, and have driven almost every version of Windows. Or vice-verse and probably in the future.

…This is the last comment I shall make in this thread.

<< Ditto :ph34r:

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I am going to stay with 7 until the next release. It’s more than fast enough, stable enough, and does what I need to do as well as anything can. I’ve traditionally been one of the first to get the new thing, but the touch interface turned me off, and I was and am very happy with Win7. So, this time, I am going to wait. (I did try the preview and Consumer Preview, just didn’t like the lack of the “orb” and didn’t see buying a new OS only to have to add something to it to make it work the way I like) Just my $.02 as always YMMV.
Joela44

Joel

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Late response to post #37. WOW! You triggered some memory for me with your PCMCIA card remark! How I marveled at the utility of being able to expand my storage and peripherals with the fragile little cards. I really don’t miss how difficult it used to be, and often still wonder at the questions I get asked so often about (what seem to me to be) the simplest things! I’m sure we all remember the old “where IS the AnyKey” so I can continue?” bit. Anyway, it brought me back to the days of DOS and the command line. It was like knowing a language the only few people understood!

Joel

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Joe,

Please, don’t take this the wrong way… not arguing or trying to change your mind, just a couple of casual comments.

Yes, & is a good OS. Win8 happens to be even better. Touch is completely optional & the OS works beautifully w/out it. The rumoured idea that the ‘lack’ of “the orb” is an issue… it is not… there is just a somewhat different approach to things w/ Win8; and in a few months some of that ‘old style’ stuff is going to exist. As for having or needing to add 3rd Party stuff to make Win8 ‘workable’, that, also, is a false rumour… it works beautifully w/out doing that.

YEs, we IT Pros will always share a good laugh over, “Where is the Any Key?”

Cheers,
Drew

Please, don’t take this the wrong way… not arguing or trying to change your mind

I think you are.

Yes, 7 is a good OS. Win8 happens to be even better. Touch is completely optional & the OS works beautifully w/out it

Stated as if it were a fact, when actually it is an opinion.

rumoured idea

issue

false rumour

“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” -Inigo Montoya

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Another advantage of Win 8 is that since it still has a significant gap to close in order to be as popular as Vista was at one time at approximately 19% market share, it seems it will be exceedingly easy to move on to what hopefully will be a much more well-rounded and user-targeted OS. Personal market share for Win 8 is hanging in there at 6.6%, a little more solidly now that it’s running 8.1.1 but that update only illustrates how many problem areas still remain and impatience with the seeming piecemeal and compromise updates.

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none of those are big on my list
well security would be if that were actually true

reliability

fewer bugs

ease of use

would make me happier

These are the things I have seen claimed for it.

1.) Faster Boot

2.) Optimized for touch devices

3.) Better use of memory

4.) More Efficient use of Processor

5.) Improved Security

Anything else?

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none of those are big on my list
well security would be if that were actually true

reliability

fewer bugs

ease of use

would make me happier

1.) Faster Boot

I like a snappy start-up, but I would be more impressed if it were a fast start from a cold shutdown, rather than waking up from hibernation. You can do that with Windows 7.

2.) Optimized for touch devices

I don’t have any touch devices, and don’t plan to get one unless I can install Linux on it.

3.) Better use of memory

Better use of memory can never be anything but a good thing.

4.) More Efficient use of Processor

A lot of software will run faster in bench marks, but it’s on the order of 1% or 2%. Not very impressive.

5.) Improved Security

Also a good thing. A lot of people, such as yourself are skeptical about whether it’s actually true. I know that some of the original claims by Microsoft were of the “nobody has written malware for it yet” kind that are pretty lame, but I believe that there are other things that have been changed to make it more secure. Although, I don’t know exactly what they are.

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reliability

I’ve never had a reliability issue with Windows 7. It is difficult to make a claim for improvement on Zero Defects.

fewer bugs

I’ve never had a bug issue with Windows 7. It is difficult to make a claim for improvement on Zero Defects.

ease of use

After some effort and reconfiguration, I finally have Windows 8 almost as easy to use as Windows 7 was right out of the box.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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I think I discovered why one of Corel’s emphasized features for the new VideoStudio Pro is native 64-bit support; trying my first transcoding and burn to disc job (DL-DVD) on the 64-bit 8.1.1 system. As of this writing, the 24 hour elapsed time count is on its second trip and stands at 21 hundred and 37, and is just 82% complete (45+ hours for those who don’t drift miltary time). It seems to be getting it’s fair share of the processors (60% or so most of the time). The same type job on 32-bit XP systems is taking about 8-10 hours.

Another advantage of Win 8 with some software seems to be to teach great patience. :-_-:

Maybe it’s doing a super amazing job of encoding though and it’ll be worth the wait.

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