Upgrade CPU or Motherboard?

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CPU likes to run rather high especially after boot slowing down my Web sites loading. I have reduced starting items to only a few.

I have a Gateway GM5424 with the following:

Windows 7 Ultimate Service Pack 1 (build 7601)
2.13 gigahertz Intel Core 2 Duo
64 kilobyte primary memory cache
2048 kilobyte secondary memory cache
64-bit ready
Multi-core (2 total)
Not hyper-threaded

Board: Intel Corporation DG965OT AAD75595-200
Serial Number: BQOT6460018C
Bus Clock: 266 megahertz
BIOS: Intel Corp. MQ96510J.15A.0307.2006.1214.1911 12/14/2006

400.09 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
233.67 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space
3582 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory

HL-DT-ST DVD-RW GSA-H11N SCSI CdRom Device [Optical drive]
HP DVD Writer 740e USB Device [Optical drive]
LITE-ON DVDRW LDW-811S USB Device [Optical drive]

NVIDIA GeForce GT 440 [Display adapter]
DELL 2007WFP [Monitor] (20.0″vis, s/n XX-0HF730-XXXXX-64Q-092L, April 2006)

Suggestions?

Thanks much,
JB

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I’d think about upgrading the processor before considering upgrading the board.
Go with a 3 GHz quad core processor.
I would also add an SSD drive to the system and upgrade your memory. It’ll be easier than a MB upgrade.

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Suggestions?

JB,
Hello… I think the question can only be answered by yourself …Example

1. MotherBoard changes would require some answers first …EX: What form Factor do you have now?

2. Are you willing to change your case to accommodate a different one? (“MOBO” form Factor)

3. Would your Power supply be adequate for a new “MOBO” CPU combo?

4. What do you want your new PC to do? are you a “Gamer”, or just want better PC performance?

5. Do you want to “Adjust” the CPU and other timing tweaks etc. ? If so you should go with a “UEFI ” Mother Board that allows numerous BIOS settings ( performance type)

These are just a few things to consider … I have a AMD 4 core on a ASUS UEFI 990 FX MOBO. All put in a Corsair Obsidian 650 Case … Blah, Blah.

Bottom line ….. Take you time …Do lots of internet research… New Egg, Directron, etc.:cheers: Regards Fred

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Still doing research. Will probably go with CPU only upgrade since no gaming. Thanks for the replies. JB

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Something to consider:

If you stick with your current motherboard, it will be easy to find drivers for it should you need them in the future — you just go to the Gateway website and enter the model number of your computer.

However, if you change your motherboard, and if you need drivers in the future, you will no longer be able to go to the Gateway website for drivers. Make sure that you can easily find drivers for your new motherboard before committing to change the motherboard.

Also, replacing a motherboard is major surgery. If you aren’t really careful, you can damage your motherboard (or something else) in the process.

Replacing the CPU is far easier than replacing the motherboard, and that will probably give you more improvement than replacing the motherboard.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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There are only 2x quads listed as compatible for that ‘board, both 2.66Ghz. Greater selection of dual cores but still stuck with 2.66Ghz max. http://processormatch.intel.com/CompDB/SearchResult.aspx?Boardname=dg965ot

A quick look on Amazon lists some compatible quads from $70 (used) – $200+(new): http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_p_lbr_brands_browse-_0?rh=n%3A172282%2Cn%3A541966%2Ck%3Acore+2+quad+Q6600%2Cp_lbr_brands_browse-bin%3AIntel&keywords=core+2+quad+Q6600&ie=UTF8&qid=1366652789&rnid=2528832011

I’d need to rule out any software/browser/recent Windows Update interference before recommending spending money on an upgrade CPU, I used a C2D 2.66Ghz until 2-3 months ago with W7 and saw no such problems.

(if you decide to swap ‘board, etc., it’s really no big deal, there are a multitude of Youtube videos and the like that will walk you through it, likewise, finding drivers for a new ‘board is easy. You may need to upgrade the PSU though, eMachines/Gateway have a reputation for never fitting better than the cheapest they could source).

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If you swap boards, you might often have to buy new memory as the current memory may not be compatible or fast enough to take full advantage of the available performance.

Jerry

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If you swap boards, you might often have to buy new memory as the current memory may not be compatible or fast enough to take full advantage of the available performance.

And CPU, S775 ‘boards are getting long in the tooth.

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If anyone is still interested in upgrading these older DG965OT board based computers, I just did some mods to a 7 year old Gateway GM5410E.
It has served me well over the years, but it was getting kind of slow with the old E3300 Core 2 Duo running at a whopping 1.86 GHz with 2 GB cache.
So I picked a Q6600 Core 2 quad (4GB cache) up off ebay for pretty cheap, and installed it, with a second 1TB sata HDD at the same time.
Happily the bios picked up the change and shows the new CPU running at 2.4 GHz, with a FSB speed of 1066 Mhz, which is the max this board can support.
I also tweaked the memory speed up from 533 to 667 Mhz. It has 2 GB of ram.

Overall pretty happy with the speed boost. I don’t do gaming so this should work OK for a while. Stuff loads a lot faster.
Gateway uses funky bios’s that don’t allow overclocking or much else, so you don’t have much to play with. They don’t support 1333 FSB, so you have to make sure when you get an upgrade CPU that it will run at a nice clip with the 1066 FSB.
This board also uses older DDR2 ram (533/667/800), and only supports a max of 8 GB using 4 slots.
From what I have read you can’t upgrade the bios with a standard 965 bios from Intel. This renders the board useless.

The Q6600 and Q6700 (2.4/2.67 Ghz) are designed for 1066 FSB, as are the QX6700/QX6800/QX6850 “Extreme” family (2.67/2.93/3.0 Ghz respectively). These are all LGA775 chips.
There are plenty of zippy Xeon quad core CPU’s also available that are 1066 FSB. Many of them are intended for the LGA771 socket so you have to use a 771/775 adapter attachment. No big deal.
Anyway, 965 upgrades are cheap and easy to do.

rstew

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Does the CPU still run high when booted up into Safe Mode with Networking and have you checked the temps to see if it’s running hot ?

Boot sector viruses can also give the symptoms you’ve got.

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Does the CPU still run high when booted up into Safe Mode with Networking and have you checked the temps to see if it’s running hot ?

Boot sector viruses can also give the symptoms you’ve got.

Not sure what symptoms you are referring to. It was running fine, just slow.
I use full AVG scan monthly and Malwarebytes frequently. All clean.
The new CPU runs at temperatures that are just fine using the original fan/heat sink.
The fan runs no more often and/or faster than it ever did.

rstew

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Overheating would cause a slow down which is why I asked and checking the CPU usage when booting up into Safe Mode with Networking where just minimal services are used, could show if the high usage was due to drivers/services that run in a normal boot.

Reinstalling Chipset/Video drivers can also help – just trying to eliminate possible software causes before condemning hardware.

Normal AV programs/malware scanners don’t scan the Boot sector so a normal scan wouldn’t show up a boot sector virus – you would need a bootable scan disk program that can scan the boot sector http://pcsupport.about.com/od/system-security/tp/free-bootable-antivirus-software.htm although these viruses are rare these days.

One way to check if a virus is present is to check how much memory is available in relation to what is installed http://www.ehow.com/how_5876228_check-boot-sector-virus.html

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OK thanks; I see what you mean now.
I don’t think it has been running any slower than it ever did.
I was just interested in a mini-upgrade for now in lieu of buying a new computer, which will likely be soon anyway.
One odd thing I have just noticed is every few hours or so it crashes with a big BSOD message that is totally unintelliglbe to me at least.
It then automatically reboots and behaves normally for another few hours.
Once Vista is up there is an error screen that gives a bunch of data about the error, again unintelligible. I did manage to get a screen shot of it though, in case anyone can decipher it.
Then there is an occasional error window about some “cable registry” thing, and a ‘windows media” issue. These are followed by a screen that says windows is searching for a resolution, but it never finds any of course.
Any idea what any of this is about?

Thanks,
rstew

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If you post the message, satrow should be able to help you with that.

Resolving the BSODs could also resolve the problems you’re having.

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OK, I can’t figure out the file attach thing at all.
Is there a guide somewhere on the forum as to how it works?
rstew

Oh it looks lik I got one file attached. Can I attach several to one post?

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If they are pics like that then you can either set them side by side or paragraph it and place it below.

There’s a Hotfix for that error if the conditions apply http://support.microsoft.com/kb/938928 but if you have other BSODs with different error messages, then follow the instructions in the following link and no doubt Satrow will pick it up as he has already contributed to this thread, unless you want to open a new thread for the BSODs.

http://www.sysnative.com/forums/bsod-crashes-kernel-debugging/68-blue-screen-of-death-blue-screen-of-death-posting-instructions-windows-8-1-8-7-and-windows-vista.html

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I checked the link to the hotfix, thanks. It says this happens when there is more than one TV tuner installed. That seems kind of odd, since I have not added another TV tuner.
All I did was switch from a Core 2 Duo E6300 CPU to a Core 2 Quad Q6600.
The unit does have a plug in PCI TV tuner card, but its always been there. I don’t use it anyway; don’t watch TV on the computer.

I have tried attaching pix of the BSOD error message, but the files exceed 1.95 mb, so they won’t attach.
I also tried attaching the mini dump files, but the file type is not recognized. I have nothing to open these files, so I can’t even tell what they contain.

The BSOD’s are pretty repeatable; about every 5-1/2 hours, no matter whether the computer is active or just standing by.
When it is active I start to notice the screen whites out suddenly, then comes back after a few seconds.
I also notice that several of the desktop icons stop working, or take a long time to activate.
Then after a few more minutes, the screen goes to BSOD, and shows numbers being dumped to a file. It won’t pause so you can digest it at all.
Then it goes black and starts a full re-boot. It starts up pretty normally, except it takes quite a while for the tool tray icons to show up. Otherwise normal, and then it operates just fine for another 5 hours or so.
Anyone got any ideas what is going on? I am at a loss.
I don’t think its an overheated CPU situation. I loaded Realtemp 3.7 and it shows the core temps ranging from lows in the mid-50’s, to a high of maybe 94C.
The cpu fan kicks in and starts ramping up by the mid-80’s. The max temp allowed is 100 C, which I assume is correct for the Q6600.
When I run passmark, the temps climb to about 94C; and the fan is running at maybe half speed. Core 0 is always the hottest of the 4 cores.

If someone could email me, I could send the BSOD screen pix, and the mini-dump files.

Thanks,
rstew

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It could be best if you created a new thread for the BSODs in which you can add a short cut to this thread to save you explaining everything over again.

As for your temps, the max is the max but it shouldn’t really get anywhere near the high end when running normally – but the hardware guys will be able to advise better on that.

You could check the interior to see if it needs a clean out, but high temps could be a result of what is causing the BSODs…

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It would be best if you removed your e-mail address so that you don’t get bombed out – this is a public forum for all to view.

Satrow has acknowledged he’s aware prior to your last post but you may need to wait until after the weekend for further BSOD assistance as today is Father’s day and there are family commitments.

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It would be best if you removed your e-mail address so that you don’t get bombed out – this is a public forum for all to view.

Satrow has acknowledged he’s aware prior to your last post but you may need to wait until after the weekend for further BSOD assistance as today is Father’s day and there are family commitments.

OK thanks, done.
Yes we are busy with Father’s day as well. All is good.

rstew

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Using either Blue Screen View, or digging around the event viewer will yield the exact BSOD error so that you may post it here.

Remove the TV tuner card too, why have something like that installed if you’re never going to use it.
Make certain that your chipset drivers are up-to-date as well. These are commonly neglected driver updates that are important.

I don’t think its an overheated CPU situation. I loaded Realtemp 3.7 and it shows the core temps ranging from lows in the mid-50’s, to a high of maybe 94C. The cpu fan kicks in and starts ramping up by the mid-80’s. The max temp allowed is 100 C, which I assume is correct for the Q6600

TCASE B3=62.2°C; G0=71°C

Those ARE high temps (degrees Celsius), at least in my book they are. (Even for the G0) Expect CPU throttling.
Something is wrong if you are idling in the 50s. Those are temps (above) that I would expect with overclocking.
If you are using a stock Intel cooler consider a change. You’ve upgraded to a far more potent CPU than the E3300, overall cooling has to be a consideration.

You will also need to check your motherboard’s (DG965OT) Southbridge temps. I’ve owned that board before, along with the Q6600, and I can tell you first hand that the Southbridge does run hot. (it’s normally unusual for a Southbridge to run hot)

The DG965OT and the Q6600 are of questionable compatibility on paper, but reality is a bit different, it’s borderline.
If it’s put together in a SFF case you can expect serious issues with cooling. (been there, done that)

Make certain your BIOS is at least 1713, latest is 1754.

If someone could email me, I could send the BSOD screen pix, and the mini-dump files.

Resize your screen pic a bit with Paint or some other graphics app and post your BSOD. Just make sure your new size is legible.

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Thanks Clint;
All great info.
I loaded blue screen viewer, and the offending driver is; IntelDH.sys
Caused By Address: Address IntelDH.sys+58e
File Description: Intel(R) software driver for Intel(R) Viiv(TM) technology
Crash Address: ntkrnlpa.exe+4decd
Does this help?

I note your comments about the temps.
I believe that Realtemp reports junction temps; the 100 C max is referred to as TjMax; whereas the TCase is the outer case, right?
The cooler is the original that came with the computer. Its an AVC B6521NC; 4 wire harness.
I can’t find any info about it but the original E3300 processor is rated for 65 watts THD, same as the Q6600, so I figured it would be up to the task.
None of the restarts have shown any kind of overheat event.

I note your comments about the hot southbridge chip when used with the Q6600.
What is the SFF case that you refer to?

“Make certain your BIOS is at least 1713, latest is 1754” These are Intel bios versions, right?
My DG965OT is a Gateway OEM board (made by Intel), but uses specific Gateway bios.
I read elsewhere that if you install the Intel standard bios, it likely will not run at all. Others have done this.
My bios version is MQ96510J.15A.0307.2006.1214.1911
There is a newer version MQ96510J.15A.0386 available, but I don’t want to try installing it in case I mess it up, or it doesn’t work for some reason.

Thanks for all the info so far. Any further ideas or suggestions will be most appreciated.

rstew

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Here is the blue screen view of the crash file.
Finally got one small enough to attach!

rstew

37212-IMG_0538

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I note your comments about the hot southbridge chip when used with the Q6600.
What is the SFF case that you refer to?

Small Form Factor (SFF) case.
In other words, small cases with poor overall cooling capabilities.

“Make certain your BIOS is at least 1713, latest is 1754″ These are Intel bios versions, right?
My DG965OT is a Gateway OEM board (made by Intel), but uses specific Gateway bios.
I read elsewhere that if you install the Intel standard bios, it likely will not run at all. Others have done this.
My bios version is MQ96510J.15A.0307.2006.1214.1911

OK, sounds reasonable.

I loaded blue screen viewer, and the offending driver is; IntelDH.sys
Caused By Address: Address IntelDH.sys+58e
File Description: Intel(R) software driver for Intel(R) Viiv(TM) technology
Crash Address: ntkrnlpa.exe+4decd
Does this help?

Try reinstalling your chipset drivers, the latest ones.

Intel(R) software driver for Intel(R) Viiv(TM) technology

Uninstall the above and remove the TV tuner card.

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“Intel(R) software driver for Intel(R) Viiv(TM) technology
Uninstall the above and remove the TV tuner card. ”

I am not sure where to go to kill this. I tried to stop it in Task Manager>Processes; but it still looks to be alternately running/stopped in the services window.
How do I kill it permanently?

rstew

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OK, got it.
I went into uninstall programs and killed it there. All traces seem to have vanished.
Time will tell if that cures it, but I am hopeful.
Thanks to all for the help.

rstew

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Keep a close eye on those temps, they may, or may not be a factor in the crash, but it’s
definately something that’s going to shorten the life of the system, that includes temps on the southbridge too.

The BSOD and the intel driver issue could be causing that media center error message you displayed earlier too.

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Thanks Clint and others for all the help! This is indeed a great site, very informed folks here.
I plan to give it a good long run today and hope that things are stable.
The RealTemp monitor includes a utility that does a full load CPU test which tapers off over 10 minutes, so you can watch individual core temps as the load decreases. I hope to give it a try today.

The best,
rstew

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Well she is operating just great after all this.
Almost 12 hours today; and not a whimper. No BSOD craziness.
That “Intel(R) Viiv(TM) driver sure seems like it was the culprit.
Now my core temps seem to run around 45-50 C when idling, and up into the 70’s and 80’s when she is working.
The core activity graphs in task manager run very smooth and low mostly now, instead of all kinds of random spikes every few seconds like before. Standby CPU activity runs around 1-4%.
All in all very pleased.
Thanks so much to all on this forum!

rstew

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rstew,

This is still VERY hot.

Zig

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rstew,

This is sill VERY hot.

Zig

Remember, these are core temps, NOT case temps!

rstew

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Remember, these are core temps, NOT case temps!

rstew

“core temps” are the important numbers. Core temps above about 70C “when working” are getting into dangerous territory. If they go above 80C it is very likely to cause damage, especially to components near the CPU socket. Ideally your core temps should stay below 70C even under full load.

See “Heavyload” at http://www.jam-software.de/heavyload/ and “Speedfan” at http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php (both are very good and free). You need to run system under full load for at least 30min – if any core temp goes over 80C then look at replacing the CPU cooler fan/heatsink with a high capacity unit (e.g.: Coolermaster Hyper 212 EVO; Thermaltake ISGC-200 or ISGC-400.

2GB DDR2 RAM is a bit light on for Win7. If you have 1x2GB chip you should look at adding another compatible 2GB chip (you may have other options depending on number of RAM slots on board). This should allow your memory bus to run in dual-channel mode (allows multi-core CPU better use of RAM).

Common problem w/ RAM is tarnished contacts (tarnish builds up over a period of time, especially in humid weather). Easily cleaned off by gently rubbing the contacts with a good-quality white pencil rubber, then use a clean dry toothbrush or similar to remove any leftover particles.

Computer Consultant/Technician 15+ years experience.

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Coochin,
I appreciate your comments re core temps.
I have just started using SpeedFan, and I notice right away that it reports core temps that are consistently 10 to 15 degrees cooler than what RealTemp reports.
So now I am not sure what to believe.
I would like to believe the lower temps are correct, but who knows?

Anyone else using both RealTemp and SpeedFan, and what core temp comparisons do you see?

rstew

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You could check to see what temps the free version of Speccy and HWMonitor give and compare those with what RealTemp and SpeedFan gives.

https://www.piriform.com/speccy

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

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Or try a quick trip to the BIOS if it reports temps

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Or try a quick trip to the BIOS if it reports temps

Good suggestion, but alas, the bios reports only board, MCH, and ICH temps!

rstew

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Or try a quick trip to the BIOS if it reports temps

Good suggestion, but alas, the bios reports only board, MCH, and ICH temps!

rstew

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