Two more casualties in the ‘Unsupported hardware’ Kaby Lake/Ryzen Windows Update lockout

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There’s a report of a mis-identification for an older E3500 processor, and one blocked Windows Update for a guy who upgraded his video card.

UPDATE: I just got an email from DP who pointed me to this excellent discussion on the Intel forum, from a guy named Igor Levicki:

Either Microsoft is lying, and Intel is effectively enabling that by staying silent, or Microsoft is telling the truth, and Intel is falsely advertising their new CPUs as 100% backward compatible. In both cases Intel’s behavior looks dishonest toward consumers and developers alike.

Intel’s perspective is different from Microsoft’s. If you’re concerned about this situation, you should read that whole thread.

[See the full post at: Two more casualties in the ‘Unsupported hardware’ Kaby Lake/Ryzen Windows Update lockout]

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Is this making anyone else want to immediately jump into the group w bed and have nothing more to do with windows update? It’s why i’m still avoiding april’s updates even though i’m on a first generation i5 but the e3500 celeron was released in, what, 2010?! This utterly pathetic strong arming by microsoft needs to stop.

-T

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JDeC

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Unfortunately, I don’t think it will stop and will instead maintain this course of action. It is the continuation of the GWX campaign. Can it be taken any other way? I also call into question the status of “mis-identification” or any other term used to imply that these blocks are in any way accidental in nature. Video cards are now being blocked as well? Did Microsoft even fix the “mis-identifications” with the Carrizo processors yet?

MS is declaring war on the user at this point. They are liars and only care about getting people on Windows 10 and will stoop to any level and it seems malware-style is their avenue of choice. Breaking people’s WU based on an ever expanding and secretive list of hardware that is now including video cards is unacceptable and intentional IMO. It didn’t end with the GWX forced upgrade. As usual and as has already begun, users will simply find a way to patch Windows so as to nullify any hardware blocks.

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Elly, GoneToPlaid, David F, Pepsiboy, Karlston, AlexN, FakeNinja

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Yes. The video card block is the 4-foot long dead rabbit. Are they going to go after people who upgrade their hard drives next?

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Don’t give them any ideas.

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They just keep continuing to find new ways to trick people into downgrading to 10 without any hesitation. Here we are again, and I think people are missing the big picture here…why are they pushing this so hard? Think about it, it’s not too hard to figure out. They want that sweet telemetry data, they want more beta testers, they want everyone to be the customer. The stronger they push, the further back I stand (and many others). But hey, as long as their profits are up somehow, who cares what Nadella & Myerson are doing. Kappa

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Karlston

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This campaign to lock Windows 10 onto new hardware is aimed squarely at the entrenched enterprises which will continue to put Windows 7 (since they have volume licenses) on any new systems they purchase and then turn around and continue to buy extended support contracts well beyond the EOL date all the while refusing to buy into Windows 10. Doing that is what will cost Microsoft money in terms of unrecoverable support overhead costs and future sales. So what Microsoft is doing attempts to force those enterprises to stop doing that and leave Windows 10 on those new systems and in so doing bring older systems along.

Companys can and certainly do ignore what Microsoft has to say when it come to what OS they must use. Many enterprises have equipment rolled out to the factory floor running custom software that would rather fight than switch. Others simply don’t see any profit in retooling and then having to retrain their employees. As an extreme example of a current situation, I have had a grocery store employee tell me that their self-checkout kiosk systems display the Windows 95 logo when they boot up. Somehow I would not be surprised to find out that those might be 16-bit systems connected by serial cables.

What is perceived as “fud” (fear, uncertainty, distrust) in relationship to Microsoft by experimentalist Windows 7 users is just an unfortunate side effect of this campaign. In Microsoft’s view such users are just an insignificant nuisance to be utterly disregarded–you can be certain that Microsoft is not bothering to go out of its way to do this to them. Those users are not a source of income, just fodder for testing and advertising like all the other users. We’ve certainly come along way from where people camped out overnight and waited in long lines to buy Windows 95 and then end up spend even more on Microsoft’s various Office products!

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HiFlyer, Elly, BobbyB

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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. If Microsoft weren’t so h**l bent on blocking updates on Ryzen and Kaby-Lake then this wouldn’t even be a problem.

Edited for content

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I haven’t checked, but is it still possible to uninstall the KB update in question?

What about pulling the cpu driver inf from a Windows 10 machine and force installing it in legacy?

hardware spoofing?

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I am not sure I immediately understand why changing out a video card should cause MS to disable Windows Update. Peripheral components do fail on otherwise perfectly functioning systems and, in many cases it is a video card that shorts out. What does that have to do with anything if the CPU and chipset on the MOBO is unchanged? Any insights would be welcome.

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More misidentifications? Not surprised. This is exactly why I haven’t downloaded ANY April updates, and I may even hide them.

I’ve said before that perhaps last month’s updates were my last. Seems like it was a good month to end on too, considering the recent revelations.

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JDeC

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Well my friend if you choose not to install updates anymore then Windows 7/8.1 whichever one you may be on will become too much of a security hazard for me to recommend using. I would recommend making the switch to Linux. Preferably a distro other than Ubuntu simply because that too has telemetry too and is controlled by a corporation.

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I am very happy to confirm to anyone else out there that my Intel Core i7 6700K SKYLAKE within a PC built in August 2016 is indeed SUPPORTED after installing April 2017 updates.

Edit to remove HTML

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We’ll have to wait until August for the block :).

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Do you know for sure Skylake generation ends in August 2017?

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Does uninstalling the roll up or rolling back with a restore point unblock the updates? I have a pc with an old intel atom n450 bu still I don’t want to risk wrecking my pc with an uninstallable patch

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Well even if you could uninstall the patch most likely the next patch would still block updates because Microsoft knows that people will look for a workaround. But yes. KB4015549 for Windows 7 and KB4015550 for Windows 8.1 are uninstallable. Not sure if it’ll unblock updates, but they are uninstallable.

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So basically it’s a leap of faith, I really hope this are isolated cases. But I still wonder, wouldn’t  a restore point just revert you back to the march roll up?

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I do believe it would. Try it and search for KB4012215 if you’re on Windows 7 SP1 or KB4012216 if you’re on Windows 8.1. If you see that installed in the installed updates then that means you have the March Rollup installed.

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One more thing I’d recommend avoiding the April rollup and future updates for now as until Microsoft decides to stop blocking updates these updates should be considered malware.

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I’m on group A so yes I have the rollup and normally I would if not for the word 0 day exploit.

Edited for content

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@ anonymous#111523

But yes. KB4015549 for Windows 7 and KB4015550 for Windows 8.1 are uninstallable.

That is incorrect.

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Then why was I able to uninstall it?

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I’m using a Haswell chip. So my best guess is that if you’re using a Ryzen or Kaby Lake chip then the update might prevent itself from being uninstalled on those chips. I literally just uninstalled KB4015550. So unless the updates can’t be uninstalled if you’re using a Ryzen or Kaby Lake system, then I’m afraid you’ve heard incorrect information my friend.

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Both KB4015549 for Win7 SP1 and KB4015550 for Win8.1 can be removed/uninstalled thru the Installed Updates section of the Programs & Features control panel.

woody, I wonder if you could change the MS-DEFCON level back to “1” on your web site after this latest MS debacle.

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MrBrian

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I hear ya, but it’s so %$#@! important for folks to get this month’s patches installed, because of the Word 0day.

I hope I gave enough forewarning in the InfoWorld article….

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JDeC

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woody wrote:

I hear ya, but it’s so %$#@! important for folks to get this month’s patches installed, because of the Word 0day. I hope I gave enough forewarning in the InfoWorld article….

Well I personally updated as per your instructions Woody. My CPU is a Core i5-4690K. I’m running Windows 7. I know nothing of CPU generations or anything, all I know is that I’m on a supported chip. I just hope my updates don’t get blocked. But for now I’m turning off my updates before they get blocked. It’s ridiculous.

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Chris M

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After reading this post, I realized that you and I were apart of the same Intel generation (or atleast I think so, maybe I’m one later), and with you saying your chip is supported, it inspired me to update.

I am very happy to confirm to anyone else out there that my Intel Core i7 6700K SKYLAKE within a PC built in August 2016 is indeed SUPPORTED after installing April 2017 updates.

 

 

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Chris M wrote:

After reading this post, I realized that you and I were apart of the same Intel generation (or at least I think so, maybe I’m one later), and with you saying your chip is supported, it inspired me to update.

I am very happy to confirm to anyone else out there that my Intel Core i7 6700K SKYLAKE within a PC built in August 2016 is indeed SUPPORTED after installing April 2017 updates.

Core i7 6700K is Skylake, Core i5 4690K is Haswell (Refresh), which is 2 generations behind Skylake.

Good to hear that a real Skylake system is not blocked (yet?). But we still don’t know if Microsoft will support Skylake systems to the end, apart from those systems on the supported list.

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

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HiFlyer

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The April 2017 security-only update and monthly rollup can be uninstalled. I did so in tests at https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/for-you-testers-heres-how-to-spoof-a-kaby-lake-processor-inside-a-virtualbox-win7-vm/.

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JDeC, Elly, Karlston

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So basically once you’re blocked not even a restore point can save you ? What a mess…

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The April 2017 updates can be uninstalled, and after they are uninstalled, the blocking is no longer in effect.

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HiFlyer, Elly, JDeC, woody, TheSuffering, Karlston

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MrBrian wrote:

MrBrian

@MrBrian; Worth testing?

“Have you tried using an older CPU system to download the version of the updates for use by system administrators to update multiple PC’s (you would only update one or two). The “unsupported…” may only inhibit the download and not the actual install.”
Quoted from commenter (Jim Dempsey) on the article by Igor Levicki at:

https://software.intel.com/en-us/forums/intel-isa-extensions/topic/731318

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That wouldn’t work, but fortunately there is radosuaf’s method.

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HiFlyer

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Well I guess it’s time to pull the trigger.

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AlexN

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Have posted about a report before about a similar misidentification.

But this time it seems to be more serious : Change a video card and you can get blocked?

We know from the April preview updates that Microsoft still has not gotten round to fix this “wrongly blocked” issue, at least about AMD Carrizo. As things go it is virtually certain this blocking code will be included in future update rollups and security-only updates. I expect to see more of these issues cropping up.

I have said this before but I will say it again. The current Microsoft leadership led by that CEO does all the following :

Treat consumers as unpaid alpha/beta testers? No problem.
Twice-a-year upgrades with tons of bugs? No problem.
Anger customers with all these Windows “policies”? No problem.

That CEO won’t change course as long as the stock price remains high and the shareholders are happy.

Microsoft is investing resources to add undesirable features to Windows 7 and Windows 8.1, in order to make Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 users as uncomfortable as possible, in the hope of coercing them to move to Windows 10 (it is definitely NOT an upgrade for me).

I know about installing updates via DISM and I will need to get familiar with it, it may be useful in the future. For now, I won’t install April’s updates. I don’t care about the Word 0-day since I don’t have Microsoft Office on any of my systems.

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

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Have done some testing myself on my VMWare spoofed Kaby Lake virtual machine running Windows 7 x64.

(1) Install KB4015546 or KB4015549 via the DISM method or directly installing it.

(2) After reboot, run Windows Update and ask it to check for updates. “Unsupported hardware” immediately appears. Windows Update says it is unable to check for updates with the error “Code 80240037”.

(3) Install the IE11 security update KB4014661 via the DISM method. It works. After reboot, IE11 is updated. The same update will be blocked from installing with an error “Installer encountered an error 0x80240037” if I attempt to directly install.

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

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Elly, woody

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I remember a Windows 10 presentation by Satya Nadella (I believe it was the Windows 10 introduction presentation) in which he said: “We do not want you to like Windows, we want you to love Windows!”.  How far we are away from that now, even further than we were before. Carrots please, not sticks!

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HiFlyer, Elly

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I’ve literally just installed a new Radeon RX580 gpu luckily just after patching, but it will be “interesting” to see what happens next month.

It does seem to me though that we are all in a Lose-Lose situation as even if you elect to get on your knees, don the Win 10 [edited], all you are doing is swapping one pile of problems for another pile of problems.

Perhaps being servile to MS wouldn’t be so bad if they could just manage to get something right for once

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You installed the RX580 just after patching you say? Well can’t you check for new updates now to see if you get an error message? You don’t have to install anything. I’m sure lots of us would be curious about the result, including myself.

-T

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One more small fish in the pond that won’t upgrade from an i5 Sandy (2nd gen) to Kaby (7th gen). I can easily afford it, but I see no reason to waste money. I’m not afraid of Win10 at all, but it’s a waste of money while my current Win7 OS will supposedly be supported for ~3 years. Would anyone have put up with this when XP was still supported and Vista was the ‘upgrade’ OS?

IMHO, this MS policy has far more potential to hurt hardware manufacturers than MS. It’s not just Intel and AMD, there are motherboards and matching DDR4 memory sales to be lost. I’m not buying a new system until this is resolved or I am forced to upgrade in 2020. What shall I do with my extra retail (full version) Win7? Is it worthless, yet 3 more years of ‘support’?

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Elly

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anonymous wrote:

You installed the RX580 just after patching you say? Well can’t you check for new updates now to see if you get an error message? You don’t have to install anything. I’m sure lots of us would be curious about the result, including myself. -T

I just checked it and there were no problems at all. The update routine ran and found a MSE definition update which downloaded without problem.

However, I wouldn’t read too much into this as the card wasn’t fitted when I patched, so any blocking routines may not have been downloaded.

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Thanks for testing it though. If you were caught by this i would’ve assumed checking for updates would have returned an error message as per woody’s article, despite you having already installed it. It’s very unlikely the vast majority will be caught out by it but one could always be the statistical anomaly.

-T

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Apologies for a possibly stupid question, but I wanted to ask about my processor.  My computer is closing in on being 7 years old and has an AMD Phenom II X6 1035t.  Providing MS doesn’t decide to block a processor that old, I should be in the clear, shouldn’t I?

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Your computer should be in the clear

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Mcmacladdie

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Thanks.  I always get a little too paranoid for my own good hearing about these things *lol*

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JDeC

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DITTO! 🙂

 

Group B HP Pavilion-dv6 Win7x64 Home Premium-Intel Core i5-3210M CPU

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yup. nice Star Wars – Empire Strike’s Back reference! 🙂

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amraybt

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