To reboot, or not to reboot

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PATCH WATCH By Susan Bradley Why do we need to reboot our computers? Why can’t they just run 24/7 without issue? And why is Windows more likely to req
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Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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jonaw, WSGeo, Perq, ibe98765, fisher75, Cybertooth, Casey S, rc primak, DLivesInTexas, lmacri

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As SOP, how often should you reboot a Windows 10 system?

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I expect this thread will likely get a ton of different suggestions about this subject but…

If you’re in a “monitored” work environment, you’ll have to follow whatever the corporate policy is regardless of possible suggestions you may get here.

Otherwise, it’s pretty much a personal decision based on each users particular use scenario and PC settings.

As for me…

Sleep/hibernate are disabled on my PC’s and I shut them down either when I’m done using them for the day (or at least every night before I go to bed) and restart them when I need to use them again.

So they typically get rebooted once a day and/or whenever an update indicates it needs to reboot to finish the install process.

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wavy, WSlagunacreek, Charlie, JC Zorkoff, NaNoNyMouse, PL1, PKCano

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I currently manage three PCs and two laptops.  I chose to start my PC when I need to do something.  Then, I also shut it down when I am done, or at least every night.  I also shut down my wife’s PC every night!!

 

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n0ads wrote:

Sleep/hibernate are disabled on my PC’s and I shut them down either when I’m done using them for the day

Sleep is enabled on my PC and I never shut it down.
I reboot when required by updates (Windows updates, software updates..). I just had to restart following HitmanPro Alert update.

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ibe98765, WSlagunacreek, Cybertooth

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You may remember me the Win7 guy. I recently learned that there was a Windows Update that actually messed SFC up, causing unrelable results. Rather than re-issuing that update, they issued a new one — KB3181988.

Also, I know from experience that SFC often throws up an unable to repair and often will fix the problem in subsequent runs of SFC.

I do not know if this applies to subsequent Wins

CT

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Cybertooth

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This was an especially well-written and informative article, worthy of a formal “thank you.”

So, thank you, very much.

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Another take is with apps that demand a reboot (not just system updates), when installed or updated. I see this most commonly with things that integrate tightly with the Windows UI, especially the Explorer.  The one that I’m most familiar with is the desktop client for Nextcloud, which shows a status badge for each file in the Explorer display. When the Nextcloud client is installed, then there is a pop-up that demands a reboot before all the features are fully active.

I get the need for restarting the Windows UI, by logging off and logging on again, but I’m a lot more doubtful about what is accomplished, if anything, by doing a full shutdown and relaunching the system, unless there is some driver that won’t get reloaded without the reboot.

Some of my perspective is influenced by my Linux experience. Although there are some that tend to regard things as Ubuntu, Kubuntu or Xubuntu as separate distros, they’re really all Ubuntu, simply with a different desktop (GNOME, KDE or xfce, respectively) .  And I’ve found no problems with having a stock Ubuntu installation with multiple other desktops installed.  All it takes to change from one desktop to another is to log out, and then choose the preferred desktop when logging in again.

Looping back to Nextcloud, it’s notable that the Mac version of their client does not support status badges in the Finder. With Linux distros, it’s necessary to have one more package installed which corresponds with the file manager that is being used (nautilus, caja, dolphin, nemo, etc.) but I have found that when either the Nextcloud client or the manager integration is updated, there is no need for even a logout/login, much less restarting the system.  But that’s part of the Linux design.

For Windows, I will acknowledge the possible need of  a reboot for drivers, but of the things that I encounter that demand restarts (not just Nextcloud), I’ve never seen any documentation that discloses specifically why a restart is needed, and with my Linux experience, I tend to respond to those demands with just a log out and log in, rather than a full restart.

To me, the underlying problem with Windows is influence that dates back to DOS, of the assumption that a desktop computer is a single-user computer, and that it’s no big deal to restart, and where the limitations of DOS and the NT kernel prior the kernel used in Vista made it desirable, if not necessary, to do frequent reboots.  Fortunately, NT 6 is stable enough that we don’t have all the issues of crashes from previous versions, but there is still the Microsoft problem of too many things that can be resolved only with a reboot, especially in loading of drivers.

As to Susan’s original point, besides the issues I’ve noted here, there is also the need for doing a restart from hardware-related issues (or the combination of hardware and drivers). There are times when it is helpful or necessary to do a full removal of power to bleed out all remaining electricity from the system, and where a subsequent restart is coming from a truly cold machine, and there aren’t any components trying to retain previous status. And the same thing applies to peripheral hardware.  Still, this does seem to be more frequently an issue with machines that run Windows than ones that run MacOS or Linux.

For this particular instance, Microsoft’s use of FastBoot makes it harder to get a true cold shutdown of a machine, because the default handling of  “Shutdown” is actually “Hibernate”, and the only time you get true, full shutdown of the machine is as a part of a reboot, and where the shutdown is only momentary.  Not good for doing a shutdown intended to bleed power from the circuitry or when pulling power (including battery) as a preliminary for opening the case to do hardware work.

It is possible to get around that — you can tinker with Windows power options, so that the options presented for Shutdown in the Start menu are Sleep, Hibernate and Shutdown (reenabling explicit use of Hibernate, and Shutdown is a true shutdown).  And it’s also possible to initiate a cold shutdown with specific switches in the SHUTDOWN command.

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driftless

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Fastboot is disabled. Hibernation is disabled. Sleep is disabled. I have multiple routine maintenance/file copy chores that are handled by Task Scheduler in the wee hours, so I only sign off, never shutdown except for hardware maintenance/upgrades.

As for reboots, whether an installation of software requires it or not, I will reboot just to clear out all memory addresses to make sure everything starts fresh, but other than that, I don’t reboot. Sometimes I get calls from friends or relatives about PC issues, and the first thing I will recommend is a reboot. Quite often, that takes care of the problem. The same is true for smart phones. Often a reboot will give one a fresh start and eliminate the glitch(s).

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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WSlagunacreek, TechTango

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I disabled Fast Startup on my system.  Modern systems with SSDs boot fast enough for my taste.  So I happily traded whatever convenience/speed it might provide  for the benefits of a fresh start.  At a minimum I boot the system once every day and shut it down when I’m done using it.  For intermittent usage during the day I use Sleep when I’m not actively engaged.  But I always shut it down at the end of the day.

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Charlie, PKCano, pmcjr6142

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I also shut off the modem/router when I know I won’t be using my computer anymore.  The next day it only takes around 20 seconds for my SSD computer to boot up, but it takes the modem/router about 90 seconds.  The modem/router runs warm in winter and hot in the summer. The cost of electricity doesn’t allow that wasted power.

I also have to unplug everything many times in the Spring through Fall months because of the “severe” storms we get here three times a week on average!

 

Being 20 something in the 70's was far more fun than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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In my testing, Fast Startup does not offer a speed benefit and therefore I always disable it. If Hybrid Boot is enabled, the OS may retain some detritus from previous sessions even after a cold shutdown, but a reboot should give a clean start (seems backwards, no?). I’m in the habit of disabling Hybrid Boot with a reg file:

HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Power | HyberBootEnabled [0 = off 1 = on]

I’m sufficiently geriatric to have supported Win3.1, which had two (absurdly) small resource heaps that would drain due to memory leaks. One user asked for help because the text in dialog boxes was showing in Courier. He was in the habit of closing the lid and letting his laptop sleep, and had been running the same session so long that Windows couldn’t render the normal system font. A reboot fixed it. Power management has come a long way but it’s still high maintenance or we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

*buntu rarely needs to be rebooted but the boot cycle is so fast that I often do it anyway after updates. If I update from the command line, as I usually do, then I check if a reboot is needed by looking for anything named “reboot” in /var/run. If no such file exists a reboot is not needed. I have an alias in .bashrc that lets me check with just a couple keystrokes.

 

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Charlie wrote:

I also have to unplug everything many times in the Spring through Fall months because of the “severe” storms we get here three times a week on average!

Unpluging certainly works if you are around, but for max peace of mind consider a UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply). Surge protection is built in any decent UPS.

I use one from Cyberpower. APS is another major player.

Desktop Asus TUF X299 Mark 1, CPU: Intel Core i7-7820X Skylake-X 8-Core 3.6 GHz, RAM: 32GB, GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050 Ti 4GB. Display: Four 27" 1080p screens 2 over 2 quad.

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ibe98765, Charlie, Cybertooth

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Back in the early 90’s I would reboot my machine — Win 3.11 at the time —- sometimes twice a day, but at least once.  But only to free-up memory.  That was a nagging issue in those days when the average computer only had 8MB of RAM, or 16MB if you were a hot shot.  Back then, windows took every kb of memory it could grab to run a program. Unfortunately, when the program was closed, windows still kept a lions share of that memory.  Rebooting was the only practical way to reclaim those precious megs.  (I remember there was a small app at the time called a memory defragmenter, but I wasn’t brave enough to try it)

One of the machines I have today has Win11 24H2 on it.  And I have to admit that I am impressed with the way it manages memory. Much better than Win10.  When you close a program, your memory actually gets freed up, whereas on my Win10 machine, with identical programs and RAM, closing the same programs frees only 30-40% of what 24H2 returns to the owner.

But I still reboot once a day.  Old habits are hard to break.

 

 

"War is the remedy our enemies have chosen. And I say let us give them all they want" ----- William T. Sherman

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WSlagunacreek, TechTango

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Known reboot flags in Win 10 and up – any one of these will block many installers and updates if not cleared by the process that set it.

HKLM:\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\ServerManager\CurrentRebootAttempts – key exists
HKLM:\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Updates – UpdateExeVolatile – Value is anything other than 0
HKLM:\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Component Based Servicing\PackagesPending – key exists
HKLM:\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Component Based Servicing\RebootInProgress – key exists
HKLM:\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Component Based Servicing\RebootPending – key exists
HKLM:\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunOnce – DVDRebootSignal – value exists
HKLM:\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Auto Update\PostRebootReporting – key exists
HKLM:\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Auto Update\RebootRequired – key exists
HKLM:\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Services\Pending – Any GUID subkeys exist
HKLM:\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager – PendingFileRenameOperations – value exists
HKLM:\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager – PendingFileRenameOperations2 – value exists
HKLM:\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Netlogon – AvoidSpnSet – value exists
HKLM:\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Netlogon – JoinDomain – value exists

The following special key pair comes into play when a machine is renamed (system compares, both keys must match to prevent reboot flag)

HKLM:\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\ComputerName\ActiveComputerName
HKLM:\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\ComputerName\ComputerName

~ Group "Weekend" ~

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satrow, TechTango

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On Win10.  I reboot every 2-4 weeks.  Machine is on 24 x 7.  Goes into sleep mode when I’m not using it.

I have issues with Chrome, which doesn’t remember many of my logons, so if I restart Chrome I have to reenter my logon info across the multiple tabs I keep open (50+).  So I keep Chrome running and every night before bed, I run a program to defragment memory while Chrome and Outlook remain open.

This lets me get away with not rebooting Windows before the machine starts slowing down for sometimes up to a month.  Then it is time to just close everything, reboot and start another cycle with clean memory.

At least I rarely get blue screens any longer.  It’s been quite some time since my last event.

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Cybertooth

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EricB wrote:

I use Sleep when I’m not actively engaged.  But I always shut it down at the end of the day

This routine applies to my SSD iMac as well.  When I changed out the original HDD for a SSD a year ago, the technician recommended I shut it down every night.  “It’s good for the Mac”. I’ve done that with no startup problems or issues of any kind.

iPhone 13, 2019 iMac(SSD)

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I especially appreciate your comments on SFC and DISM in this article. Like you I have had very little success with those tools over the years and sometimes SFC has indicated nonexistent problems. Thanks!

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