Time to upgrade to Win10?

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This just in from reader R: Hi Woody –   The Win 10 cutoff date is fast approaching and I don’t know what to do with my Win 7 system. I have read all
[See the full post at: Time to upgrade to Win10?]

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Woody, when is the last date you can buy a new computer with Windows 7? When is the end-of-support date for Windows 7? Thanks!

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Don’t do it, reader R! If you’re happy where you are, stick with Win 7 (and make sure to use a tool like GWX control panel to keep upgrade settings in check).

I’m very suspicious of what happens after July 29. Does MS still try to push Win 7/8.1 users into upgrading, maybe at a discount? Do they extend the free upgrade period? Do they stop pestering these users and give them time to make their own decisions, realizing that eventually people will migrate to Win 10 as software developers stop supporting 7/8.1 (or, in the case of gaming, DirectX 12 requires Win 10).

But the last year has taught me to not trust Microsoft at all. I’m very skeptical they’re going to leave people alone after the 29th. I just wonder if the upgrade push becomes more aggressive, or if they punish Win 7/8.1 users in other ways (e.g. incentivizing software developers to creating Win 10 exclusives, or certain updates like this past Tuesday that break things like the policy editor).

For me, personally, it’s not worth saving ~$100 to rush into something that’s still premature and evolving.

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Here’s the lifecycle fact sheet:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle

Win7 is in extended support (security patches primarily) until Jan 14, 2020.

Official end of sales for PCs with Win7 Pro pre-installed is Oct 31, 2016, although it’s getting harder to find good machines at a reasonable price. Refurbished may be a good option.

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One thing Woody always neglects to mention is that older hardware often cannot run W-10 without hiccups. Intel and laptop vendor forums are full of stories of people who installed W-10 and then regretted it. Here’s what everyone should do before accepting the upgrade. You will need a spare drive, but it’s fine if it’s old and slow. Download an .iso disc of W-10 and burn a CD-ROM of it. If you cannot figure that out, look in Microsoft Answers (search for “Andre Da Costa Windows 10 .iso image” for just one example). Shutdown your PC. Disconnect your current system drive and connect the new one. Power-up and use the CD-ROM to install W-10. You have three days to play with it before Windows whines about activation. I recommend pulling the network cable while you do this, which also means you won’t get updates. Then if it works, accept the upgrade.

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So if Windows 10 is paid for by advertising currently (being that it is free), if it’s no longer free after July 29th, does that mean no advertisements after July 29th!

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Heh heh heh

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Good points.

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The deal breaker for me with Win 10 was that it is the least backward-compatible version of Windows ever when it comes to software. So many software packages that I use every week, if not every day, cannot run on Win 10 that I rolled back both my Win 7 desktop and my Win 8.1 laptop. Some of the software that I use, like Photoshop, has been updated so that most of the features will work in Win 10. Other packages that were written for XP or Win 7 are now abandoned and will never be updated. I still use them, and they work on Win 8.1, but not on Win 10. Given that no substitute packages are available, if I have to switch to all-new software to replace at least a dozen programs, it makes more sense to migrate to a Mac or to Linux than to Win 10. At least those platforms have a future. Windows does not.

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PC Cobbler is spot-on correct. I have loaded Windows 10 on three machines that were all early Vista-era devices, about eight years old now. Two of the machines flunked the compatibility test but run W10 on 2 GB of RAM better than they ran under Vista or Windows 7, so that is two wins.

My third machine passed compatibility, but the NVIDIA display drivers cause blue screens and lockups, even with a fresh install. Windows Update keeps downloading 600 megs of NVIDIA drivers whether I want them or not. I have automatic driver install disabled and do not search for other than Windows updates.

After clean installing a bare display driver and disabling Superfetch, this powerful machine now rarely crashes. In other words, if Windows 10 drivers exist for your hardware, you may be good to go. If not, good luck!

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I will never run Windows 10 ever!

Microsoft spies on you!
Honestly, even if I have nothing to hide, what I do is none of Microsoft’s business!

Forced Upgrades!
Not just forced fixes. They will put whatever they want on your computer regardless of your wishes.

Forced Advertising! Geez how much time I spend with Ad Blockers, Script Blockers and assorted security apps only to have Microsoft bypass them and insert ads into the operating system.

and if that’s not enough of a reason how about it just sux for all of the reasons Woody has mentioned.

Don’t drink the Kool-Aid! Run far… Run Fast!

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Reader R…
By 2020, W10 will have been around for close on 5 years. This is usually when a Windows OS has developed its own identity. W10 is meant to be a business based OS, albeit the entertainment distractions, and most corporations should have migrated to it by then. In other words it should be stable and its value fully realized.

The canaries will have done their job and the pterodactyls will be circling. I’d wait until this lot gets airborne as they have bigger peckers.

MS has also stated that W10 will evolve in concert with hardware innovations. I would not be surprised if MS nudged that along a bit themselves, as they too are now in the PC hardware business. MS OEM partners have pretty much no autonomy. An older PC, upgraded in 2016 may be at risk by 2020, so I’d wait. Buy new in 2020 and get a finished, polished product.

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Reader R, you and I and everyone is bound to buy a new computer before January 2020. That computer will be delivered with Windows 10 (or whatever its name within the next 3.5 years), so why hurry? If you’re OK with Windows 7 (or 8.1 for others) then keeping your OS will bring time on your side. Free? We don’t even know what business plan Microsoft had in mind and, because it’s an odyssey to find a naked computer (no OS pre-installed) and that you pay the same with or without Windows (here in France anyway, unless you ask an attorney’s help), then why get “free” now what you’ll get “free” as well with a new computer?

Anyway, it’s up to you of course. But be sure that advised users will not hurry to switch to Windows 10. Even the salesman of one of my computers told me, as a whisper (people were around us), “don’t get on Win10 now, it’s not ready, no good, not yet anyway”.

Wise people refuse to be pushed. Take your time, worth far more together with a relaxed use of a computer than the 150-200 USD of a Win10 license. Let’s not become slaves of a heavy marketing policy. Carpe diem.

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For me the main issue was and still is the gradual replacing of the Win32 applications with the Universal Apps. This applies to desktop/laptop hardware.
I found the Universal Apps unstable and most of all the Windows Store App or backend are unstable which break everything else. Edge is not a competitive browser at all, but IE11 is good for those who use it. There is always the alternative to install and use Firefox or another good browser.
In principle, the issues are very much the same that stopped a lot of people adopting Windows 8/8.1. They are not resolved and I am afraid that the only reliable solution is for Microsoft to do a 180 degrees turn and revert to the classical behaviour for desktop/laptop installations. It is not only the Start Menu, there are more serious issues than the GUI.
Apple does it with their MacOS which is not iOS.

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Like the Public TV channels in Australia (think PBS in US) which were never meant to be funded by advertising.

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I continue to say that we have not seen a compelling case to upgrade from 7 to 10.

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Good points.

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I can’t believe I’m saying this, but after Windows 7 EOL’s, I’m going to be getting an Apple.

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It’s not entirely clear that Apple will be better than Windows. Changes are afoot with iOS and macOS that may play out in ways that aren’t in the consumer’s interest.

Best to wait until you’re ready to throw out your Win7 machine, and make a decision then – and keep an open mind.

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>Best to wait until you’re ready to throw out your
>Win7 machine, and make a decision then – and keep
>an open mind.

Very wise advice.

Spend a whole day (week?) trying to mold Windows 10 into something as useful as your Windows 7 system was, and you’ll wonder just how much you’ve saved.

-Noel

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Generally, I only get a new operating system when I purchase a new PC.

Since my W7 PC works fine for my purposes, I see no reason to go to W10.

After the highhanded way in which Microsoft has treated W7 users I’ll never go to W10.

The next time I buy a PC, there’s no way that I’ll bundle a MS operating system with it.

Now that I’m retired, I’ve got the time to see what the open source world has to offer.

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Woody, in a general sense, what sort of changes is Apple thinking of making that wouldn’t be in the consumer’s interest?

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“The canaries will have done their job and the pterodactyls will be circling.
I’d wait until this lot gets airborne as they have bigger peckers.”

Oh, goodness! I was already a bit challenged in trying to picture what the canaries and pterodactyls were doing (it’s not a metaphor I am familiar with),
but then – blushes! I decided not to try to imagine the scene anymore.

(Nadella, flying, in tights, what? No no make the mental image go away.)

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I’d even say that we have compelling cases to not upgrade to Windows 10 🙂

More I think about it, more I observe what this 10 thing is nearly 11 months after it’s official availability, more I get the feeling the “free” offer is the salary offered to beta-testers of an unfinished product : implicitly, “You’ll get it free until July 29th 2016 but that will set you as a beta-tester”. Explicitly stated would have been a more correct attitude.

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The keynotes at the WWDC convention earlier this week make it clear that MS is going to start gathering more data. They have to, in order to make Siri competitive. But they’re trying to do it without sacrificing privacy – a very complex situation.

Start here: http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-goes-big-on-ai-artificial-intelligence-2016-6

Then take a look here: https://www.wired.com/2016/06/apples-differential-privacy-collecting-data/

Then see Steve Sinofsky’s rebuttal here: https://twitter.com/stevesi/status/743874079342493696

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Reader R

It is about time we heard from you. What is your decision?

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Unless I go to Apple or a Chromebook (Woody likes his), I don’t forsee an ability to avoid M$ when purchasing my next laptop or PC.

I’m leaning towards a dual boot – M$/Linux. Which means that I’m reading up on Linux a lot lately. A Linux experiment I’m considering is Puppy Linux because it can be ran from a USB.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puppy_Linux

Linux Mint seems to have a favorable standing as well.

I’ll just have to take a long look at what programs & applications will not make the jump & then weigh my options.

It seems in my mind that this dual boot will have me essentially ignoring the M$ side to a large degree.

If I can figure out a way to boot to an external hard drive, I can experiment further with Linux Mint.

Maybe an image of my Win8.1 x64 could be dual booted with Win10 on that new unit. Hmmm, scratches head.

More fun times in Renders lab. 😉

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Thank you for the links, Woody.

Not knowing much about Apple (yes, I’ve been sort of living on another planet), I didn’t know that they didn’t already do that kind of thing.

I suppose that even if Apple started to collect and attempt to monetize its customers’ data as voraciously as Google and Microsoft do, the fact that it can be spread across a few rival companies rather than being concentrated in one (in Microsoft, in my case) would still be a reason to move to dividing up one’s technical interactions that are personal-information-heavy across 2, 3, or 4 of those monster companies — such as using Apple for one’s computer, Google for one’s phone, MS for several internet services (such as LinkedIn, Hotmail/Outlook, Skype, or whatever), Facebook if you must, and maybe Firefox or something for one’s internet browsing, or other permutations.

This would be inconvenient in terms of having to learn all the different systems and of not having a quick, seamless connection of those things to each other (which I don’t have or want, by choice, but I am unusual) which is managed in some kind of diabolical, leaky, insecure “cloud”.

Going to all that bother would probably only hold back the inevitable (one gigantic, permanent file on oneself and one’s history, photos, thoughts, keystrokes, conversations, movements, relationships, jobs, financial history, genetic code, etc., accessible to all companies and govts one way or the other) for a little while, though. But not being a sitting duck that is enrolled into everything right from the beginning — being an individual whose records are harder to compile, are incomplete, or are partially (deliberately) inaccurate, might have some practical benefits down the road.

…No, I don’t have an empty box of Reynold’s Wrap on my desk, chuckle!

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…the genetic code part of what I wrote above is not a futuristic prediction, it’s a current possibility for the growing number of people who have used/will use the 23andMe service (which has a complicated relationship with Google) to learn about (much of) their genetic makeup — not to mention genetic testing and sample storage done by other private services, insurance companies, doctors/hospitals, etc.

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I thank all of you for your comments and I will stay with Win 7 as long as it works for me.

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Render:

Booting from an external hard drive may work, but it often doesn’t.

But you can live test almost any Linux OS by installing it on a USB key, as long as your computer allows booting from one.

Furthermore, many Linux distros can be set up with “persistence”, a feature that essentially creates a partition on your USB key to store any changes you make during a live session so that you can pick right up from where you left off the next time you use it.

There are several good utilities for installing Linux on a USB key, here are just three popular ones you can try:

Universal USB Installer: http://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/

Unetbootin: https://unetbootin.github.io/

Rufus: https://rufus.akeo.ie/

I have found in my own testing that the variety of Linux distributions and various desktop environments within them can be somewhat overwhelming.

But if you want a place to start looking, I suggest the Distrowatch list of Top Ten Distributions: http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major

If you already know all of this, then I apologize for taking up your time. If not, or if someone else can find this useful, then thanks for reading.

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Thank you for the information. I’ll happily peruse it as I continue my research & experiments.

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Hi Woody
I am running a four year old Dell XPS8500 ,on which I had Windows 7 installed. Great programme did what I wanted it to and under my control. PC good and fast working system bags of memory etc etc.
Fortnight ago I succumbed to go for Windows 10. Fool
Took me from 3 pm to 9 pm to download and them a further 1 hour to install.
Got myself a working system but unlike 7 which had clear lines of command and actions W10 is like dangling a fishing line over a pudding basin and pot luck what it come up with.
Was unable to open video clips from BBC News/National newspaper and after a week trying to sort came up with altering Video default to Windows Media Player and got it working.
System restore points updated with dates when machine OK.
Sick of bits when opening programmes for MS to step in and give me stuff I do not want. Die seems to be cast that MS will have almost complete control of my PC and I can see in the future it will block until payments made.
Today I opened PC up and only got the W7 desktop which was locked but PC activity box continously winking After 15 minutes message to say PC was repairing error KTFS File System (?). I have eventually managed a system which is all to hell. No start menu as shown in your book (Fig 1 -11). Press start and only part menu and tiles.
Video clips from BBC back to not opening.
Windows Firewall which was controlled by AVG now back and working.
System restore has been cleaned of any restore points.
AVG anti virus killed. Needed repair. AVG now monitoring Firewall

System will not let me revert to W7.

Windows 10 my assessment – as much use as a one legged man at an arse kicking contest.

Know anywhere I can get a wig, scratched my head to baldness.

Seems since they pulled the plug on free download they have been playing around with the system. I know I am a silver surfer but anybody else reported problems?

Got you book – takes some reading but a great reference and a door stop.

Rgds
HFP

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