Time Machine stalls during back up.

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Usually when I back up my SSD to Time Machine, a 4 TB spinning Hard Disk (less than three years old and little used, as I back up once every few weeks – I know, I know), it takes about 20 – 30 minutes. Today however, is taking very long to get to close to the middle of the 111 GB that is trying to back up — and then it stalls. Usually the amount to be backed up, as declared in the TimeMachine/Preferences is considerably less than that, and I don’t remember adding any massive files since the previous backup, but maybe two or three GB in bits and pieces since then. That last back up was over a month ago.

At my first of two attempts today, I noticed that it had stalled at around 39 GB. Looking again half an hour later, still 39 GB, half an hour later, same thing. Eventually I stopped the non-performing back up after more than 2 1/2 hours and trashed the “in Progress” file. Then, oh, then the Mac would not eject Time Machine. So, in the end, I yanked it to much protesting from the Mac. I shut down the machine, waited a bit, restarted it again. By then I had unplugged and plugged in back the cord of the Time Machine Hard Disk, just in case that was the reason for the whole problem —  it was not. The TM hard disk has a capacity of 4 TB and is considerably more than 3/4 empty at present.

Then I started the backup again, and it took a sweet time for TM to “prepare to backup.” Then it started and stopped. I found that clicking on the window showing the progress of the back up would sort of encourage TM to do a few more GB. But then it got, once more, firmly stuck, this time further  than previously at 49 GB. I cancelled again the back up and trashed the proto-backup file once more  — as repeatedly and consistently recommended in a number of places when searching the Web for some kind of solution.

So here I am now, with no TM back up and waiting for some illuminating advice.

News Flash: I have not tried to back up again, but I just looked into TM, and there, surprise, surprise, are all the files I remember creating from last time I backed up, most particularly some files I created today. Wonders shall never end, but I have no idea of what is going on.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I’ve seen this happen to me as well. I recommend enabling Show Time Machine in Menu Bar in System Preferences, then what you did with Skip this Backup is correct. You usually won’t have to trash the in-progress backup, as Time Machine will clean it up next time around. You can try running a manual backup by clicking Backup Now from the Menu Bar and see if it’s successful or if you have further issues. I’ve found rebooting the Mac sometimes helps as well.

I’m having an issue with Time Machine occasionally failing completely, then popping up an error message forcing me to rebuild the backup from scratch. I’ve thought about creating a separate backup with Super Duper just as a backup to the backup since I’ve been concerned with my occasional Time Machine failures.

Hope this helps!

Nathan Parker

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One more thing: when the progress of the backup stalls, if I put my ear to the little box of the TM hard disk and I can hear it spinning inside. So it is not dead. A software problem, maybe?  Now I have started a new back up and I’ll let it go for the whole night; tomorrow I’ll see if it has managed to get somewhere.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Nathan Parker

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Well: It took well over two hours, but it got done. So, finally: Fumata bianca! Habemus backup!

What I still would like to know is: why it took this long and proceeded in such an untidy fashion, when it has always been a trouble-free, 20 – 30 minutes’ process until now, for over 2 1/2 years?

But at least now I have all my recent work relatively safer, stored both on the Mac’s SSD and on the TM HD! And Nathan has explained that he also has trouble, now and then, with Time Machine. So things are not as easy and trouble-free as I had thought. Oh well…

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Nathan Parker

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OscarCP wrote:

What I still would like to know is: why it took this long and proceeded in such an untidy fashion, when it has always been a trouble-free, 20 – 30 minutes’ process until now, for over 2 1/2 years?

Maybe some app/process locked a file and Time Machine was waiting for the file to be released.

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Nathan Parker, OscarCP

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Thanks, Alex, what you mention is at least plausible and, for all I know, it could have been the cause of the trouble; I didn’t think of that. It is too late now to see if that is what happened, but next time I do a backup, I’ll make sure to check first that nothing else that I can control is running, before I start, and also to keep my hands well off the machine until it is done, for good measure (while hoping it will really get done any time soon).

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Nathan Parker

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What Alex said could certainly be the culprit. Also, Time Machine’s backup time can vary depending on how large of a backup it needs to backup (larger backups take longer), plus performance can vary if you’re using a network drive. I’ve also noticed Time Machine in general can either be overly slow at times or faster at times, just depending on its mood.

Nathan Parker

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OscarCP

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I’m a relatively new IMAC user and would greatly appreciate advice on everyone’s preferred external hard drive for use with Time Machine.  Whenever I read reviews of the recommended hard drives people say they fail, etc.

I don’t keep much on my IMAC and I make hard copies of anything of value.  What I really want to do is take a clone of my hard drive rather than keep making backups.  Should I use carbon copy cloner instead of Time Machine — or both?  Also, I read that flash drives could be preferable to External Hard Drives because they don’t fail as much.  As you can see, I am all over the place with this and look forward to any guidance you can provide!

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Hi. You might want to look at Backblaze’s hard drive stats for failure rates: https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-hard-drive-stats-q1-2021/. This may not cover all the things you look for in a drive, but it’s certainly foundational. BTW, the HGST drives are G Drives from G Technology. I think they are Hitachi drives and are probably found in other brands as well.

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All that report tells us is that, on average, between 1% and 6% of drives fail during their life, depending on use.

The conclusion to draw is: backup regularly.

cheers, Paul

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I do have more details on backing up Macs here. That might be an article to help.

I’ve used a ton of hard drive brands over the years. Western Digital seem to be the most reliable drives I’ve used for traditional hard drives, so I tend to use those when possible. I’ve had good experience with Lacie drives as well, although they’re pricer. For SSD’s, Samsung have been good. I also use a Drobo NAS (although it’s harder to clone to a NAS).

In your case, if you want a clone versus traditional backup, you’ll want Carbon Copy Cloner or Super Duper (I’ve used both, and either work well). If you want a clone and traditional backup, you can do both a clone and Time Machine (it never huts).

In terms of hard drive vs SSD, SSD is more reliable, but it depends on how much you wish to spend.

Nathan Parker

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Thank you Nathan.  I’m embarrassed that I did not research your previous post on the subject befor posting.  I believe that I will purchase a Western Digital hard drive.  And I will use both Time Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner — do you think the free version of CCC will be adequate for me?  Thank you so very much Nathan for all you contribute to us on the Macs — and to PKCano who also has been very informative on the subject of Macs.

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Nathan Parker

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No worries and glad you asked. I may add a comment to my previous post on hard drive recommendations. WD drives have been the most solid I’ve used, so I would recommend those.

On CCC, it’s no longer free, only a free trial. You have to pay after 30 days. Super Duper does the same features, and there is a totally free version that would work in your case. I’ve used both (CCC back when it was free, plus the free and paid version of Super Duper) and either work great. If you’re wanting free, then give Super Duper a try.

I also recently completed a Mac switcher guide for Windows users that may interest you. PKCano posted it for me since there’s a standard format AskWoody uses for knowledge base articles, but I’m the one who wrote it up. It’s quite extensive if you need to brush up on Apple knowledge:

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/2000020-mac-guide-for-windows-users-wanting-to-switch/

Nathan Parker

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Much obliged Nathan.  Can you possibly recommend a specific Western Digital for my needs which are 1TB, not portable since it’s for my desktop, pre-formatted for Time Machine with the least amount of bells and whistles.  The more I read the more confused I become.  I am extremely security minded so do not want to use the cloud.  I don’t use any apps from the Apple Store, etc. so 1TB should be sufficient as I keep very little on the computer.

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Nathan Parker

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I have two Seagate spinning disk backup drives, one for the Time Machine of my Mac and the other for the government’s Mac. So far, so good. The holdup I posted about when I started this thread has been reasonably attributed by now to a problem with software (probably being used when the back up was still in progress and interfering with it), not with the TM drive.

I have also several Western Digital external Hard drives I have been using first with my Windows XP and now with my Windows 7 PC. Some of these WD drives are fairly old, with older data and software I have written years ago backed up in them. I’ve never had any real problems with any of these drives, so far.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Nathan Parker

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Thanks OscarCP.  My take-away from this is Western Digital or Seagate are both acceptable and that I should just jump in and get my computer backed up.

As an aside, there seems to be nothing in the new  Catalina that would be of interest to me so I am sticking with Mojave.

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Nathan Parker

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I have used Acronis (paid version) for years for backup. When I was just on Windows, I bought one copy of the boxed version and used it for all my machines. I never installed it. I ran all my backups and restores from the boot disk (or a copy of it) that came in the box. I never had a problem – when I needed to restore, the image I made always worked.

When I went to Macs in the 2011-2012 time frame, I bought a 3-seat license and installed it on my machines. Backup (images) were always easy to a USB drive or to a NAS drive on my network.

Problem is, with my Macs I’ve never had a problem, so I’ve never had to restore!

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OscarCP, Nathan Parker

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Thanks for weighing in PKCano.  Now I’m wondering if I should just purchase a few USB (thumb drive/flash drives) instead of a hard drive for backups/clones.  I don’t need day to day backups as I make a hard copy of documents.  I don’t keep emails on the computer.  I have an IMAC 21.5 inch 2017 and have 970.14GB of storage still available!  I’m thinking a clone every six months would give me the peace of mind in case of a crash.  Please advise. 

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I would use a USB spinner instead of flash drives. I think the retention is more secure for long term storage. Just IMHO.

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Nathan Parker, Paul T

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Nathan Parker wrote:

In terms of hard drive vs SSD, SSD is more reliable

Is it? Do you have figures / tests?
We know HDD are reliable offline stores, but SSD probably doesn’t have the data to say yet – existing data shows over 1 year retention for old / near EOL devices should be no issue if stored at less than 30C.

cheers, Paul

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Nathan Parker

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SSD drives are probably more reliable than flash USB drives (also known as memory sticks, thumb drives and by several other names) Maybe the latter are better these days, but once upon a time, several years ago, I experimentally used a thumb drive as an external disk, and it died an early death after just a few months (but slowly enough for me to have time to get most of the data inside back out and into the PC’s HD). If all you do with the external drive is backups, and you are not terribly diligent and make one or two backups a day or something like that, but do a backup maybe once or twice a month, an external storage drive probably will last longer than if it were the mass storage drive, HD or SSD, inside your computer that is used all the time.

The only thing of a general nature, applicable to all magnetic storage devices to keep in mind is that, very slowly but inevitably, the magnetic domains that are flipped in the equivalent to an “on” or an “off” state and, stringed together form the binary numbers and instructions behind your documents, pictures, various other data and software, those domains will flip to the other, useless state from the point of view of preserving the data, quite “spontaneously” (OK, driven by cosmic ray hits and other things that contribute to the eternal rise in entropy), so the information stored in those devices slowly degrades and vanishes to be replaced by “noise”, “static”, “snow” or whatever, no matter which brand is that of the drive in question. I am referring here to periods of several years, not of days, weeks or months, before this becomes a noticeable and even a serious issue. But it will get there, given enough time for it to happen.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I’m getting overwhelmed.  So many choices:  harddrive/SSD, thumbdrive/USB spinning disk, etc.  I’m hoping someone can be specific in naming the make and model number for a simple external hard drive that comes already supported for Time Machine.  Please put me out of my misery!

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Nathan Parker

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Paul T wrote:

Nathan Parker wrote:

In terms of hard drive vs SSD, SSD is more reliable

Is it? Do you have figures / tests?
We know HDD are reliable offline stores, but SSD probably doesn’t have the data to say yet – existing data shows over 1 year retention for old / near EOL devices should be no issue if stored at less than 30C.

cheers, Paul

SSDs will last longer :

…Although some people worry that SSDs have a limited number of reads and writes…Considering that Solid State drives usually come with a three to five year warranty, it means that manufacturers assume you will be writing 20GB-40GB of data per day. So to reach the 700TB limit, you would have to write 40GB worth of data every day for 17,500 days, or about 50 years…

..It seems that hard drives have three distinct failure “phases.” In the first phase, which lasts 1.5 years, hard drives have an annual failure rate of 5.1%. For the next 1.5 years, the annual failure rate drops to 1.4%. After three years, the failure rate explodes to 11.8% per year.

This means that 50% of hard drives will survive until their sixth birthday.

Recalculating the limit until data becomes compromised at 300TB, an SSD like the Samsung 840 Series is theoretically reliable up to 21.4 years. Compare that to the fact that an HD drive is 50% likely to fail after 6 years…

https://therevisionist.org/reviews/ssd-vs-hdd-one-reliable/

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Nathan Parker

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I walk in dangerous places, so here I am now stepping in into this one:

“…It seems that hard drives have three distinct failure “phases.” In the first phase, which lasts 1.5 years, hard drives have an annual failure rate of 5.1%. For the next 1.5 years, the annual failure rate drops to 1.4%. After three years, the failure rate explodes to 11.8% per year.”

My Win 7 PC is now getting close to its 9th birthday and it has now the same HD it had when it came to my possession inside a box together with a lot of plastic peanuts. I have used it very, very intensively for most of that time. (I am easing off on it now that I have transitioned from the PC to my Mac as the main workhorse.) So it may not have heard about this “three years’ rule” yet, otherwise it would be asking me to pension it off — with a nice pension. Of course, this is just one data point, so… But I know several people that are still using computers much older than three years and have had no need of an HD transplant, yet.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Oscar, I look after now about 115 Win7 computers. I have been doing this for years. I have looked after hundreds over the years. I have replaced a lot of hard drives and done hundreds of re-installs.

Based on that experience:
Life expectancy of a laptop HD 5 years, Desktop 7 to 8 years.
Some will last much longer, but not many. Many people have scrapped a PC simply because the HD was failing and they interpreted that as the end of the PC.

Over the past year or so, I made a maintenance push on all those computers. I used that as a rule of thumb and replace drives that were at, beyond or near that point. They cost typically between $60 and $90 Cdn. US$ is about 3/4s of that.

I know there are a lot of people who like SSD’s but based on my experience, the SSDs available at a price anywhere near that cannot be expected to have a life anywhere near the HD. You can get SSDs that may last as long, but the cost is at least twice the HD.

For the average user who uses their machine for mail and internet, SSD’s startup amazingly fast (which they typically do once per day), but once in operation, make little perceptible performance difference for the things they use their computers for.

Once an HD is of an age, I routinely run HD OEM testing software — either Sea Tools (Seagate) or Data Lifeguard (WD). Those programs test the HARDWARE. I have found that often times they will tell you when an HD is beginning to fail, long before you will see the signs of it.

Couple that story with the fact that a re-install will always produce a dramatic performance improvement if the system has been installed for 3 years or more. Doing a re-install is a long process. If you wait till the drive fails, you will go through that re-install again. So, why not do the replacement before you do the re-install.

CT

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Elly

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Parsed from Paul T,

We know HDD are reliable offline stores, but SSD probably doesn’t have the data to say yet

I added boldface to offline. This is the preferred state for long term, isolated storage. Safe from all connections, including power surges. Aside from Oscar’s cosmic rays, this has been the safest condition I know. I’m not sure that the quoted section you offer addresses long term storage without power.

Like Paul, I am interested in data from thorough test conditions.

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Elly

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Alex, do you have evidence to “SSD’s will last longer”?

CT

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On hard drives, here are a few additional tidbits to what I mentioned earlier:

• In terms of regular spinning hard drive vs SSD, SSDs are nice but pricer. For now I’ve been using regular spinning hard drives for backups since I haven’t had the chance to invest in the pricer SSDs.
• In terms of brands: I’ve had best luck with Western Digital for spinning drives, Samsung for SSDs (I’ve had to occasionally install SSDs in mini computers for work).
• In terms of USB flash drives such as thumb drives, I’d stay away from those for full system backups. They’re not large enough. They are good for creating a bootable recovery copy of macOS if need be (although with the Recovery Partition and Internet Recovery, the need for it has diminished, but it can be useful to have), as well as for backing up small files.
• In terms of desktop vs portable, desktop is easy to stick on a desktop. They generally require a separate AC adapter, whereas portable can power from the bus (mostly handy on the go or when you need to reduce AC adapters)
• In terms of interface, USB (USB 3 especially) is the most flexible, USB C is quickly becoming popular. Thunderbolt 3 is the fastest, but pricer.

Nathan Parker

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Thanks to all who have responded to try to help me decide on the best external hard drive to use for Time Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner or Super Duper.  If you have gotten the impression that I am very ignorant of the whole subject you are correct!

Once again, my basic info:  I don’t need day to day backups as I make a hard copy of my documents file.  I don’t keep emails on the computer. I have an IMAC 21.5 inch 2017 and have 970.14GB of storage still available! I’m thinking a clone every six months would give me the peace of mind in a crash.  Or perhaps the reason I cannot make a decision is that in case of a crash I have hard copies of all documents and hard copies of my email contacts (which are very few).  In addition, the previous computer that I used to transfer info to this IMAC is sitting in my closet which is a sort of back-up.  In other words, if one cannot solve a problem it may be that the problem does not exist!  If my present IMAC became unusable I could purchase another IMAC and basically transfer my info to it from my hard copies in my desk file and my previous computer sitting in my closet.
Oh, and one more thing — I have no photos on the computer.

Please Advise – I am eternally grateful for all of your continued “putting up with me”!

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I’d probably recommend more often than six months on a clone. Maybe at least a month. You could even do once a week if you want to. The paid Super Duper even allows you to schedule automatic clones if you don’t want to have to manually run it.

You can also restore a Time Machine backup to a new Mac as well, and it works quite well (plus it provides versioned backups, so it works similar to File History in Windows).

In terms of a hard drive, a Western Digital spinning hard drive would likely be sufficient for your needs (I wouldn’t invest in a SSD).

For the connection: USB 3 is going to be the most flexible and cost-effective. USB-C should also be supported on your iMac and going to still be cost-effective and “future proof” as Apple is moving more toward USB-C. A drive that supports both USB 3 and USB-C would be very flexible and “future proof”. Thunderbolt 3 would be the fastest, but if you’re not making a ton of frequent clones and not moving a ton of data, it’s likely not worth the extra investment for you.

In terms of desktop vs portable, desktop would suffice since you have an iMac, but it may require an AC connector. A portable would power itself without an AC connector, so you’ll need to decide if you want to plug in separate power or not.

In terms of drives themselves, I searched Western Digital’s webiste. One of these would work for a desktop drive:

https://shop.westerndigital.com/products/external-drives/wd-my-book-usb-3-0-hdd#WDBBGB0030HBK-NESN

https://shop.westerndigital.com/products/portable-drives/wd-easystore-desktop-usb-3-0-hdd#WDBCKA0040HBK-NESN

https://shop.westerndigital.com/products/external-drives/wd-elements-desktop-usb-3-0-hdd#WDBWLG0030HBK-NESN

This would work for a portable drive:

https://shop.westerndigital.com/products/portable-drives/wd-my-passport-for-mac-usb-3-0-hdd#WDBA2D0020BBL-WESN

Nathan Parker

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Elly

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I’ve got 3 Western Digital My Passport portable drives (see the last link above in @NathanParker’s last post) that I use for Time Machine on a MacBook Air and an iMac and also for images of a few Win 7 and 8.1 computers. All 3 work fine and are reasonably fast. All are 1 TB capacity.

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Thank you Nathan Parker & DrBonzo.  I have decided on and will purchase the last choice listing – the WD Passport portable.  It is 2 TB which is fine.

Thank you sincerely for not giving up on me.  Seeing the actual choices was what I needed to feel comfortable.  I hope this process will be helpful to other Mac owners who may be wondering what external hard drive to use with Time Machine.

Everyone’s generosity in sharing is deeply appreciated.

 

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Elly

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One last thing concerning the capacity of the external HD: in my way of thinking, I would buy more than I can expect I’ll ever need. Because, every time, what I thought would be enough capacity of the internal HD when choosing at a shop or  “configuring” online a machine I wanted before buying it, has proven in every case not to be enough. And, as the external HD will be backing up successive contents of the machine HD or SSD, it will become somewhat larger after each backup, assuming you (or the operating system, or some application that gets patched or updated, etc.) have saved, created or modified any files since the last one. So, for my Mac’s Time Machine, I bought a Seagate HD with a 4 TB capacity (and the Mac itself with the largest internal drive in offer at  Apple: a 1 TB SSD). I don’t know that I’ll ever need that much for the Mac or for Time Machine, but if past is prologue, maybe in another three or fours years I might be happy I bought a 4 TB drive for TM and not something smaller. It is more expensive if it is larger, but buying larger and paying more for it may turn out to be the pound wise and not the penny foolish thing to do, which is always preferable to doing it the other way around, according to the old saying.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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OscarCP wrote:

the information stored in those devices slowly degrades and vanishes to be replaced by “noise”, “static”, “snow” or whatever

Can you provide information about data degradation in long term storage? There must be figures for this.

cheers, Paul

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Paul T: There are different estimates. This Web site has a list of the expected life-span of data stored in different media:

https://blog.storagecraft.com/data-storage-lifespan/

But I am not sure one can rely completely on some of them: 3 – 5 years for DVDs and Blu Ray? I have DVDs of movies that are more than ten years old and play just fine. I don’t watch any given one of them very often, though, and that might be the secret. One important fact determining the life span of a particular medium is how much it is used; another how it is handled. I also find the life span for hard disks to be way less than what, according to my own experience over several decades, they last, or at least they last for me. And I use my computers for some pretty heavy number crunching of pretty decent size data sets.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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OscarCP wrote:

But I am not sure one can rely completely on some of them: 3 – 5 years for DVDs and Blu Ray? I have DVDs of movies that are more than ten years old and play just fine.

Commercially-produced DVDs/Blu-rays are not in the same category as media used in writable drives. Commercial discs are pressed as opposed to burned; they only “wear-out” due to physical damage.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, OscarCP

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That site is not what I would call authoritative – it reads like someone’s opinion based on stuff they’ve read somewhere – and has no information about data degrading (bit rot or other corruption).

cheers, Paul

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Canadian Tech wrote:

Alex, do you have evidence to “SSD’s will last longer”?

The test above in the post of HDD vs SSD says so.
I have lost the count of how many times I have replaced failed HDD after 3 years of use, and less, since my first PC in early 80’s.
My previous Windows 7 laptop had an NVMe SSD for ~7 years. I still keep the 128GB SSD in a drawer.

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My experience is exactly the opposite, as far as HDs go, with them lasting as long as I have kept using each one of my three Windows PCs (i. e, on average, six years) — and still being OK at the time I stopped using each of them. Perhaps this can be explained by something  in the way I use my machines, but I have no idea of what that might be.

I would imagine that SSD’s might last longer than HDs, because they have no moving parts, as this tends to ensure the longevity of equipment. But I do not know of a reliable source to explain or support any of this: just one person’s observation (mine).

And on the topic of this thread: since I reported it taking too long here, I have been able, once more, to use Time Machine for full backups in the normal time (in my case) of 20 minutes or so, by not doing anything else with the Mac, or running intentionally any program while a backup is in progress. (Whatever software, at the time and not “my own” might have been doing in the background, not to my knowledge, apparently has not caused excessive delays by doing so.)

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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It may be a little unnecessary considering it has been resolved but a lot of these forums helped me so will post my experience:

MacBook Pro 13″ Late 2015 running Mojave

Had an issue with a swelling battery that caused a few system failures, once the battery was replaced neither iCloud Drive nor Time Machine would back up (iCloud to the cloud represented by the little pie chart in Finder). The battery had been replaced and I tried every solution I could find, deleting the inProgress backups (they’re still stuck in my Trash and have read that doing so is not the best method to resolve it on older OS), FirstAid on both my internal SSD and external 5TB Seagate HDD, booting in Safe Mode etc. Have been troubleshooting the Time Machine issue for weeks as I need it for my work.

The solution that worked for me is turning off iCloud Drive, attempting the Time Machine backup and leaving it overnight. I’ve turned iCloud Drive back on and will resolve that issue later.

1 user thanked author for this post.

OscarCP

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