• This is an improvement? (Firefox)

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    #1993314

    A couple of months ago, Firefox introduced its new, “improved” UI for the addon manager.   I first learned of it here when people began to post about how to get the old one back, and my reply was to expect the new one to become mandatory soon enough, in typical Mozilla fashion.

    I wish I had been wrong.  I don’t use Firefox proper, with Waterfox (now “Waterfox Classic”) being IMO the only really decent (currently updated) browser in existence, but I saw the hoopla over the “dark theme as default” with the newly released FF 70, and I decided to take a look.  As a part of that, I wanted to check and see what effect my chosen FF theme had.

    Well, I got sidetracked.  I never did get around to trying out the default theme, as the abomination of the new, “improved” addon UI caught my attention.  Of course, I have the pref set to banish the new, “improved” one, but it no longer works.

    This is desktop Firefox, mind you, not mobile.  Here’s the old display, screenshotted at 100% zoom, the default setting:

    old-addon-ui

    Note that the date of the last change and whether an addon has an update available are clearly visible.  The means to remove, disable, or change the settings of an addon are right there and visible, making managing them easy.

    Now here’s what Mozilla thinks is an improvement:

    new-addon-ui

    What??  Why is it so small?  Are they aware that people generally use desktop PC monitors in landscape mode?  They’re called widescreen, not tallscreen!

    Note the total lack of information there.  The “an update is available” notice has been replaced by a blue dot, and the update now, disable, remove, and change settings buttons have all been hidden beneath the much-hated (and deservedly so) hamburger button.  Why?

    It now takes more clicks to manage addons, no matter what you wanted to do with them.  The date of last change is gone, and that stupid blue dot doesn’t exactly scream “update available” the way that actual text saying “an update is available” did.  This new UI is less ergonomic, the options less discoverable, and conveys less information while only using half the screenspace it has available.

    This is a mobile UI grafted onto a desktop program.  The hamburger menu has been studied and found to be a terrible idea, even on mobile devices, where it has been used as a mechanism to get UI out of the way to save space on the tiny little screens those things have to cope with.  I have a 23 inch widescreen display, though, so why am I being given a UI designed for a mobile phone, and even then suboptimally?

    This is just one more of a long, LONG series of UI missteps by Mozilla.  UI wise, Firefox has been getting worse and worse for years, but we used to have a way of fixing every one of the many mistakes Mozilla made (by use of the Classic addons, of course).  Now they’ve removed that ability in what I consider to be the mistake of all mistakes, and that means their new mistakes can’t be fixed at all.

    Waterfox and Pale Moon remain the only browsers on desktop I’ve tried that retain or permit a UI optimized for desktops and that accept the full range of addons necessary to twist and bend the web to fit the user’s preferences.  Ever since Chrome came along and standardized the hamburger menu on browsers, Mozilla has been following suit, with two different attempts at a UI that looks like Chrome (tabs up on top) rather than Firefox (which had always put the tabs right above the content, below the URL bar, until Mozilla began their quest to try to become Chrome).  Pale Moon has the best UI out of the box, by my way of thinking, but Waterfox’s UI can be fully reverted to be just as good as Pale Moon’s, while retaining Waterfox’s silky smooth scrolling and ability to use most current Firefox addons as well as well as Classic addons.

    I just worry about how long Waterfox will be possible as the Mozilla base from which its security updates are pulled continues to diverge from v56, from whence Waterfox came.

    Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
    XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
    Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

    • This topic was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Ascaris.
    • This topic was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Kirsty.
    • This topic was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Ascaris.
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    • #1993739

      There seems to definitely be a trend going here. Maybe it’s more people using smartphones, or maybe it’s just that they feel too much information will stymie the average person these days.  It’s a sad thing to watch.

      Being 20 something in the 70's was so much better than being 70 something in the insane 20's
    • #1993802

      “Tallscreen”, new to me and I like it. I’m going to have to steal for use next time I see awkward cellphone video shot upright then displayed on widescreen with ghosty side filler. Off topic, just wanted to admire your wordsmithery. Very effective.

      • #2037433

        FYI – It used to be called Fullscreen.

        Being 20 something in the 70's was so much better than being 70 something in the insane 20's
    • #1993905

      Have you tried Basilisk? It’s as good as Waterfox Classic (at least in the past). It’s been my default browser since its inception two years ago. My most important extension, Tree Style Tabs runs better on Basilisk (than Waterfox 56.2.14) and I can use other Piro extensions (like informational tab) that do not exist as WE extensions. Basilisk is forked off of Fx 52 ESR. I haven’t used Pale Moon since ver 26 as some classic extensions don’t work right on versions newer than that one.

      I have two desktops, one with Windows 8.0 Pro and one with Windows 10 Pro (1803) and a Dell ultrasharp wide screen 24″ monitor and I hate this trend toward ignoring those who have desktops with widescreen monitors…but then THIS site does it also! I have to endure the ugly, garish display at AskWoody where the site is displayed on a wide screen monitor in a narrow strip down the center of the screen and on both sides are wide swaths of solid black. (And I have to type this in a narrow box that cannot be expanded width wise only vertically wise)!

      I have an iPhone 10R and I rarely go on the internet on it (other than Apple News) and I had to turn off Siri when it updated to iOS 13 as Siri runs amok on that iOS so all this effort to please cell phone users to the extreme detriment of desktop users is lost on me. I use my cell phone for Apple Pay, banking, and other apps like Uber and voice mail as text. I can’t imagine why anyone would torture themselves using the internet (except if absolutely necessary) on that tiny screen.

      Basilisk uses the old style Personas so if you didn’t save any before Mozilla purged them all you are up a creek but there is Classic Addons Archive for extensions you didn’t save before Mozilla purged them. I use Arris’s CTR on Basilisk and he maintains it for that browser. I also have Fx 60.8 ESR (its profile goes all the way back to the original Fx ESR years ago). I subscribe to the Fx ESR List Serve for many years and I shake my head at the problems so many IT folks post about regarding Fx 68 ESR and as for Fx 70…I did not know dark theme is default there. That is AWFUL.

      https://www.basilisk-browser.org/download.shtml

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1993922

        I’ve never tried Basilisk, as it lacks the one feature that I most miss in Pale Moon also… e10s, or multiprocess.  That’s the reason that Waterfox is so smooth scrolling… even more so than in Chromium.  Pale Moon is good other than that, but it has the jankiness that Firefox used to when it was single process.  Scrolling around, it stutters and pauses… it’s not terrible, and I would certainly use it if Waterfox vanished, but as long as Waterfox is around, I just appreciate the smoothness so much that I wouldn’t give it up if there was a choice.

        Edit: Also, I wrote in the other thread that if you zoom in to 175%, the black bars disappear.  I use an addon to set the default zoom to 175%, but if I have any set to something different, it will remember that using the built-in ability.  Most sites are perfect right at 175%, so I don’t have to ctrl-mouse wheel each page individually.  Much better than having to squint at the tiny text on that narrow strip in the middle!

         

        Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
        XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
        Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

        • This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Ascaris.
        • #1994358

          FWIW, I don’t get much of the stuttering or “jankiness” when scrolling in Pale Moon and I’ve been using it for like two years now as a daily driver. I do recall times in the past when something like that would occasionally pop up if I’ve had it open for a very long time (as in weeks), but simply restarting it cleared the issue up.

          However, I can’t remember the last time that occurred. I never got to trying Waterfox because I was pleased with Pale Moon enough that I never felt the urge to, but I have heard mostly good things about it.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #1994427

            For most of Mozilla/Firefox’s existence, single-process was the norm, so it’s not a show-stopper.  During the earliest years, when jump scrolling (a whole line of text at a time, or more) was the norm, the relative lack of smoothness wasn’t a factor, but as smooth scrolling became the norm, the limitations of the single process began to show.  It bothers some people more than others, but it’s definitely there, as it’s an unavoidable consequence of the way the CPU handles a single process. After being away from PM for a while and then coming back, it wasn’t as bad as I remembered either, but after a while, I began to notice the lack of smoothness more and more.

            In a single process, a long operation can halt processing that whole process until it is finished, and during that time, the program is effectively frozen, not able to scroll or do anything else.  It’s on the order of milliseconds (that’s long by CPU standards), but for that short time, the page stops scrolling (if it was scrolling at that point) and does not start again until the long operation has completed.  The more “stuff” that is going on in the background, the more it is going to happen.

            It’s kind of like tearing in various games… some people don’t notice it, while it is intolerable and drives others to distraction (I am in the latter camp).

            It’s one of the major reasons that Mozilla undertook the massive e10s project… it simply was not able to deliver the kind of smoothness that was possible if the UI was in a different process from the page rendering, where they can act asynchronously.  “Jank” was Mozilla’s term for the stuttering and lack of smoothness in scrolling.  It was a major effort to get Firefox as smooth as the competitors, particularly Chrome, which had been conceived during the multicore era of CPU architecture, and had multiprocess operation from the start.  I wish I could remember the name of this effort!

            This is one area where Mozilla succeeded wildly.  I never tried Chrome back then to see what the difference was, but I did try Chromium for the first time this year, 2019, and it’s not as glassy smooth as Waterfox when scrolling.  It’s especially noticeable on my Swift laptop, which has limited computing power and a touchpad, which tends to magnify my perception of any lack of smoothness compared to a mouse and scroll wheel.

            Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
            XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
            Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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            • #1994526

              There are many reasons Pale Moon does not use multiprocessing such as security, resource use and efficiency. It’s gone into in detail here.

              FWIW, I didn’t notice any difference in this regard (aside from the occasional stuttering which was easily fixed) in any kind of general way when I switched from Chrome/Chromium to PM. If I scroll now, it’s very responsive and smooth. Of course, I can understand something little like that driving you crazy as the same thing happens to me sometimes as well with other stuff.

              • This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Sessh.
    • #1994278

      When I switched from FF-ESR 60.9 to FF-ESR 68.2, I found many annoyances, namely these hard coded startup extensions:

      Extension Amazon.com.au 1.1 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
      Extension Bing 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
      Extension Chambers 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
      Extension DuckDuckGo 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
      Extension eBay 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
      Extension Google 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
      Extension Twitter 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
      Extension Wikipedia (en) 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0

      Killed these off straight away, I’m not interested in this tripe! I have a search engine.
      New versions of FF use the Windows BITS service!!

      NO WAY, so killed that off using the following in the about:config

      app.update.BITS.enabled

      setting it to FALSE
      I don’t need this connection from a third party browser, it’s for Windows only IMO
      Extension updates still perform as normal with this service disabled.

      Windows - commercial by definition and now function...
      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1994319

        Those extensions are “One-Click” Search engines, they can be removed: about:preferences#search

        • This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by satrow.
        • #1994327

          I have a search engine

          Those extensions are “One-Click” Search engines, they can be removed: about:preferences#search

          only to come back later in the default state.
          I found the only way to stop them was to use (old portable ccleaner v5.32 pre avast) Tools-Browser Plugins-Firefox and disable them from there.

          Windows - commercial by definition and now function...
          • #1994344

            A 1-2 minute check post each FF update 😉

          • #1994365

            granted yes but, that’s not what the issue is.
            After an update I always scrutinize/ research FF changes. This change for me from FF60.9 to 68.2 showed that a new string had been added (amoungst other improvements) to include the list of searches above. On searching about:config I came across a new string (compared with my previous prefs.js) which seems to contain all of those (ebay/chambers/twitter etc..)
            On editing this alphanumeric string to remove the search engines, one by one, the browser accepted the change and no longer showed these hidden search values…until I restarted the browser, only for them to re-appear 🙁
            The temporary/force method to disable them was by using ccleaner as described above and they do not reactivate.
            Note: One cannot remove the entire string as there are other dependancies within it that break FF.

            Windows - commercial by definition and now function...
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            • #1994370

              The ‘extensions.webextensions.uuids’ ?

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #1994389

              no, that was one of the first places I looked.The values are somewhere else within an alphanumeric string..I think it’s protected in some way.(restores default data within the string) I’ll check it out on my test device and report back later.

              Windows - commercial by definition and now function...
              1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1994728

          @satrow, memory parity error on my behalf apologies, you were correct, the ammendments were in fact, made in extensions.webextensions.uuids
          I disabled these searches completely in ccleaner: TOOLS -BROWSER PLUGINS – FIREFOX

          Extension Amazon.com.au 1.1 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
          Extension Bing 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
          Extension Chambers (UK) 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
          Extension DuckDuckGo 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
          Extension eBay 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
          Extension Google 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0 *
          Extension Twitter 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
          Extension Wikipedia (en) 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0

          * indicates Google was not removed, only disabled in ccleaner.

          Then in about:config search: extensions.webextensions.uuids
          This section was removed and close bracket inserted into ammended part at the end.

          ,”amazon@search.mozilla.org”:”89f8786b-e1da-45c7-8d84-c3aaf6c5ebaf”,”bing@search.mozilla.org”:”7a120d33-e69e-4321-affb-9b2cb4e9ee5a”,”chambers-en-GB@search.mozilla.org”:”01de9c9f-e19d-4d0e-b968-e367926106c6″,”ddg@search.mozilla.org”:”11fc95a8-3be8-467e-bffc-d20880f303cc”,”ebay@search.mozilla.org”:”f545eede-663e-40cb-9d87-652fc6f0e7f7″,”twitter@search.mozilla.org”:”07f38448-0288-49a7-a388-38db66963d04″,”wikipedia@search.mozilla.org”:”c9a1ccad-924f-4dc0-8ecc-b2382391707a”}

          Windows - commercial by definition and now function...
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    • #1994289

      When I switched from FF-ESR 60.9 to FF-ESR 68.2, I found many annoyances, namely these hard coded startup extensions:

      Extension Amazon.com.au 1.1 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
      Extension Bing 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
      Extension Chambers 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
      Extension DuckDuckGo 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
      Extension eBay 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
      Extension Google 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
      Extension Twitter 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0
      Extension Wikipedia (en) 1.0 default-esr Firefox 68.2.0

      Couldn’t find any of these on my FF ESR 68.2

      • #1994297

        That’s b/c they are hidden and do not show in the extensions or plugins interface but are on by default.

        Windows - commercial by definition and now function...
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        • #1994387

          Curiosity was killing me … So I checked.

          I am using FF Version 69.0.3 (64-bit)

          Looking at the below in about:config, it is already set at False. I don’t recall doing it and it doesn’t show in my notes I keep (to any prog) on changes I make.

          app.update.BITS.enabled
          
          
          
          • #1994417

            It was enabled by default here on Win7 x86 and Win8.1 x64 on clean FF-ESR installations as I removed all old traces of previous FF-ESR version prior to fresh installation of FF-ESR 68.2 without any previous pref.js
            Can’t speak for the mysterious, morphic and evolving Win10 though..

            Windows - commercial by definition and now function...
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          • #1994649

            FF70 here. Default (true). Now changed to False.

            cheers, Paul

    • #1994470

      First, three naïve questions (the third perhaps a little redundant, but just so the point is not missed…): What is so good about FF ESR and, if good enough, why is it supposed to be intended to be used by “enterprise system administrators…”??? Can’t a regular guy like, let’s say, me, get it too without being blocked outright, or something horrible happening later on? And, if I am successful getting and installing it, what good would that do to me?

      Fourth and fifth naïve questions: I have FF (NOT ESR) version 69.0.3 and FF is telling me to update to version 70. Is version 70, these days, like the third rail of FF? What may happen if I do not update and keep using my present version for a long, long time?

      I thank you in advance for your clarifying answers.

       

      Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

      MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
      Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
      macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

      • #1994504

        ESR releases get security fixes for a longer than regular releases… I believe it is one year.  Anyone can use them… they are freely downloadable and they don’t ask if you’re an enterprise user.

        They are a good temporary solution to weather a “bad” version of Firefox, if there is one, because you can stay on the ESR and get security updates until the “bad” version is itself replaced. In this case, if 70 is bad, you could use 68 ESR until 71 was available, which would hopefully be better.  It is not a long-term solution, as after a year, it’s done, and the new ESR will have the same feature set as the regular version at that point.

        While I lament the loss of the ability to use a PC UI for the addon manager in the PC build of Firefox, it’s not something I would really switch to ESR over.  I don’t expect Mozilla to revert the change, so all you would be doing is kicking the can down the road, not solving the problem.  You are eventually going to have to come to terms with the change if you want to keep using Firefox safely.  Ultimately, the changes to the addon UI are not a huge loss for consumers, as relatively little time is spent in the addon manager anyway, but given that it offers no benefits whatsoever and has several negatives attached, it is just a sign of how bad Mozilla’s decision-making can be.

        As far as the dark/ light thing… if it appears dark on your PC, and you do not like it, switch to the light theme.  It just takes a second.

        Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
        XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
        Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

        • #1994521

          Thanks, Ascaris. I have installed the “Classic” version of Waterfox’s new update: 2019.10 (as now versions are named, according to the new “versioning” format yyyy.mm.)

          Also: about the “dark/light thing” you mentioned: I am using “Dark Reader” and with it one can use either “dark” or “light” mode, of course, but “light” can be adjusted to have a grey background or a sepia one. For example, in the attachment you can see the result of how I have it set at the moment (and find actually less eye-straining than  “dark” mode).

           

          Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

          MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
          Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
          macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

          • This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by OscarCP.
    • #1994505

      Would setting a different core be an option to help??

      For most of Mozilla/Firefox’s existence, single-process was the norm, so it’s not a show-stopper

      🍻

      Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
      • #1994648

        I’m not sure what you mean.  You can give a given program a core affinity in Task Manager, but whatever core you assign it to, it will still have the content rendering in the same process as the UI, because it is only able to have one process.  The operating system is still able to use multiple cores to have Pale Moon on a different core from other active applications, which (obviously) a single core CPU could not, but the blocking of the Pale Moon process by a long operation in the rendering thread will still happen.

        I’ve been quite critical of Mozilla over the years for a lot of things, but they have also done a lot of good things.  I agree with them that e10s, “electrolysis,” the project that led to multiprocess, was worth the considerable investment in time and effort.  The claimed doubling in speed from Firefox of about 6 months before Quantum to the first Quantum release (independent of e10s) is real, and so is the big leap in stability.  Firefox used to crash a lot, leak memory a lot, and generally operate poorly after a relatively short period of time, and now it doesn’t.

        The problem I have is that they imply that since these things were part of the “Quantum” effort that led to the removal of the Classic addons, it means that the removal of the Classic addons is the reason for the speed increase and the increase in stability, leading many commentators to state that while they mourned the loss of the powerful Classic addons, it was worth it to get rid of them in order to gain the speed and stability that Firefox now has.

        That implication Mozilla made is not so, as the last Firefox release that was not Quantum, Firefox 56, was also marvelously stable and fast, and it still was able to use Classic addons.  That version of Firefox, of course, forms the basis of Waterfox Classic now, and by my most recent head-to-head performance test (using SpeeDOMeter 2.0, the same browser benchmark used by Mozilla to make the above “twice as fast” claim), the current Firefox at that time (68 or 69) was no faster than Waterfox 56.   It simply was not necessary to jettison the Classic addons to get the “Quantum” speed increase or to begin using the more secure WebExtensions, the vast majority of which are usable by Waterfox just as easily as Firefox itself.

        Mozilla could have kept the Classic extension API in Firefox and still switched to WebExtensions as the preferred addon form, perhaps requiring a pref to be set to allow the Classic addons, while still realizing the security benefits of using WebExtension addons only for less experienced users.  WebExtensions cannot do as much as Classic addons, so a malicious addon developer can’t do as much to harm the user using WebExtensions, but the flip side is that a benevolent addon developer can’t do as much to improve Firefox with WebExtensions as they could with Classic addons.  One big example of that was Classic Theme Restorer, a juggernaut of an addon that singlehandedly rolled back most of Firefox’s UI missteps, if in fact you thought they were missteps.

         

        Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
        XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
        Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

        3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1994533

      It’s one of the major reasons that Mozilla undertook the massive e10s project… it simply was not able to deliver the kind of smoothness that was possible if the UI was in a different process from the page rendering, where they can act asynchronously. “Jank” was Mozilla’s term for the stuttering and lack of smoothness in scrolling. It was a major effort to get Firefox as smooth as the competitors, particularly Chrome, which had been conceived during the multicore era of CPU architecture, and had multiprocess operation from the start. I wish I could remember the name of this effort!

      Huh? To me, multiprocess in recent Fx was a reason I hardly ever use it and hate having to start up Vivaldi or Waterfox because all multiprocess does, as far as I can see, is create EXTREME CLUTTER in Task Manager. It does NOTHING worthwhile to compensate for that!

      I’ve used Fx (well, Netscape, then Mozilla Suite, then Phoenix, Firebird and finally Fx) as my default browser for all these twenty years I’ve had computers. (Only switched to Pale Moom and then Basilisk as my default browser after Mozilla forced three year old children’s stick figures on all Fx users instead of nice icons) I never saw any use for smooth scrolling box in Options to be checked. It made, if anything, for worse scrolling. Auto scroll I always checked though. But in recent years, I find it best to just use the down arrow on the keyboard if I want to scroll a long page and don’t want to use the mouse. I used to just use the mouse but never the scroll wheel…I just kept my finger on the right button pointed at the right side scroll bar (and I edited the registry so I always have FAT Windows scroll bars even in Windows 10) and removed it where I wanted to stop on a page.

      I treat non Gecko browsers the same so all this about mulitprocess and smoothing scrolling is lost on me. I rarely have misbehaving tabs where I need to close the tab or restart the browser and I generally have about 70-90 tabs open.

      • #1994565

        I never saw any use for smooth scrolling box in Options to be checked. It made, if anything, for worse scrolling.

        With a single process, smooth scrolling was often problematic.  With so much “stuff” going on in the background, with browsers in many ways resembling mini operating systems more than simple applications (the libraries alone for the javascript on some sites would take up the entire hard drive on my first PC!), it didn’t make sense to have the UI and the content renderers using the same process. It would always cause some degree of perceptible “jank,” though on faster CPUs it’s far less objectionable than it was ten years ago with single-process Firefox.  I gave up on smooth scrolling in those early days too… it was just too laggy and stutter-y, and called my attention away from the content and toward the browser itself, which is not a sign that things are going well.

        Separating the processes also separates their memory spaces, and allow features like container tabs that allow the user to pick which sites are isolated from others.  It allows the UI to be responsive even when the content rendering processes are maxed out on CPU time (or glitched out), which is always worse on a single-process application.

        I remember how Firefox used to be when a Javascript object would stop responding! So would the rest of Firefox, making it difficult to close the errant tab or to close the browser normally, until it popped up the dialog saying that a script on the page had stopped responding, and asked if I wanted to end it.  Prior to the appearance of that dialog, it would take so long to get around to responding to my input that it would usually be easiest to force-close it and reload.  I used to have to do that fairly regularly.

        I’ve always set Windows Explorer/File Explorer to use multiple processes for exactly that reason… it may get “stuck” sorting a large directory or other similar things, and having the other folders open in separate processes make them more responsive, and also made it possible to kill the one that was misbehaving, if it became necessary, without losing what I was doing in all the other folders.  Same principle.

        Having rendering processes in separate processes also prevents a single crashed tab from taking out the entire browser, though tabs shouldn’t be crashing anyway, in practice, so to me that’s a minor thing.

        Still, if it bothers you that much that there are multiple entries in the task manager, you can turn multiprocess off.  Firefox requires a pref to be set in about:config, while in Waterfox, it is the very first option in the settings… check or uncheck the box (check enables multiprocess). If you uncheck the box, it operates on a single process like Pale Moon or Basilisk.  Choice is good!

         

        Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
        XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
        Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

        • This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Ascaris.
    • #1994762

      Just a quick redirect for users of FF 70 that don’t load some pages or elements, Martin Brinkmann has posted a fix for this:
      https://www.ghacks.net/2019/10/29/firefox-70-not-loading-some-pages-or-elements-here-is-a-fix/

      Within about:config

      dom.storage.next_gen

      set the value to FALSE

      Windows - commercial by definition and now function...
      1 user thanked author for this post.
      Geo
    • #1998998

      This is exactly why I disabled updates to Firefox. I am running Firefox version 62.0.3 32-bit. I got tired of their changing (breaking) things all the time. That’s a (sad) sign of the times, I guess. I’m glad to learn about the water fox, though. I am going to look into it.

    • #1999339

      Typical of all software developers. When you re-invent the wheel, it should still be round.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
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    Reply To: This is an improvement? (Firefox)

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