The Win7/Skylake controversy

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Would somebody please explain to me how Microsoft can retroactively chop off extended support for Windows 7? Oh. The “support list” has just been publ
[See the full post at: The Win7/Skylake controversy]

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The whole thing stinks. What next? Start charging for win 7 updates?

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This smells like a perfect opportunity for a meaningful class action lawsuit to protect the droves of small businesses and individuals who invested in “unsupported” equipment on the basis of then existing MS policies regarding initial and extended support periods.

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Be careful what you wish for….

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Sometime in the future…

“This is your last chance. After this there is no turning back…”

“You take the blue m$ pill. The story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.”

“You take the red m$ pill, you stay in wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes…”

“Remember, all I’m offering is the truth, nothing more.”

Erm. I’ll stick with the blue m$ pill thanks. Oh wait, you already forced me to take the red one. Yikes.

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How can they do it? They can secretly install updates to Win 7/8x systems that check what processor you have and then disable your windows if it does not fit THEIR rules.

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Naw, they won’t be so energetic. Microsoft is just saying that they won’t go out of their way to provide security patches after July 2017.

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On the designated Skylake PCs, are you sure that the mandatory switch to W10 applies to all W7 licenses, or just to Enterprise licenses?

I can see this being applied (legally) to a W7 Pro or Home OEM license because it would be tied to the OEM support EULA and hardware warranty. It would put a huge administration cost on the OEM, as they would have to support (drivers and such) for the device under W7, then later switch it over to W10, possibly under an extended warranty. What could go wrong!!!

On the other hand, an existing W7 retail consumer license is tied to no specific device.

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Good point. Myerson’s announcement didn’t specifically mention which version(s) of Win7 are included. And, as you say, Win7 retail licenses aren’t tied to a specific machine. That’s a Windows 10 “innovation.”

It’ll be interesting to see how this unfolds!

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Just another Richard move by the big tech bully. Seriously, none of these recent Windows 10 forcing itself everywhere-things would be an issue had Windows 10 actually been a good OS. It is not. Forcing everyone to use a half baked, ugly privacy nightmare OS will backfire hard. Those tactics didn’t work for Hitler, Saddam or North Korea. Won’t work for Redmond either.

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In this (extremely long) podcast, Paul Thurrott says it’s not only Microsoft being evil and trying to drag people into Windows 10.

https://www.thurrott.com/podcasts/64039/windows-weekly-449-noob-tubing

It’s also the official recognition of something that has being going on silently for a while : before Windows 10 came around, Windows Updates quietly began to make changes to the operating system, in order for it to stay compatible with new processors.

So although the operation smacks of arm-twisting, there would be a legitimate, technical reason for it.

Paul Thurrott and Mary Jo Foley both say this announcement worries business customers, and may suggest downgrade rights are coming to an end (another irritant for this type of users).

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I had heard that the cutoff date for Win 7 was sometime in 2020, now it’s 2017? Double Yikes! I’ve also heard it said that MS updates aren’t as important as they make out. Boy how I wish that were true!

Being 20 something in the 70's was so much better than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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Windows 10 retail licenses, or upgrades to retail licenses, aren’t tied to a specific machine either.

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But a Windows 10 upgrade from a retail Win7 license becomes tied to a specific machine, yes?

Or is that just the mechanics?

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No. Section 4(b) of the Windows 10 End User License Agreement states:

“If you acquired the software as stand-alone software (and also if you upgraded from software you acquired as stand-alone software), you may transfer the software to another device that belongs to you.”

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm

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Perhaps that’ll be the time when we all discover what a completely useless waste of time and risk to our systems all the updates have been these past months and years ;)!

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Agreed. If Windows 10 was a better OS than Windows 7 and 8.1 then people wouldn’t need any “persuasion” to accept the “free” upgrade. That’s the point I don’t think anyone at Microsoft quite gets yet.

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Ah, then it’s just the mechanics of how the activation is implemented.

Sooo…. where does that leave us? You could upgrade your Skylake Win7 machine to Win10, then take the Win10 license to another machine?

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I don’t know anything about the Skylake Processor part of the Windows 10 licensing, but I do have a laptop without Skylake, where I replaced my widnows 7 Home Premium installation with a clean Windows 8.0 Pro OEM-PUL (stand alone) installation, which is now up to Widnows 10 Pro.

It is my understanding (though I may be wrong) that if I dump the laptop, the Windows 10 license is still available to be used on another PC, or in a Virtual Machine.

If I’m wrong about this, I’d like to hear about it.

But if I used the original Windows 7 OEM (machine tied) license, the resulting Windows 10 Home license or any Pro Upgrade from it, could not be transferred to another PC.

How Skylake handles all of this should be the same, but don’t count on it!

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I think they get it, but they just don’t care.

Arrogance is different from ignorance, though both reach the same end ultimately. Certain politicians should pay attention to this reality, too.

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Does a EULA that comes with a free OS, have the same impact (in law) as one that is not free?

There is no seller and no buyer, which is what the law considers a price for implied service. If the service is not delivered as per the original agreement, there is no foul. The accepting party endured no loss. It does not mean that it can not be contested.

Caveat: There are terms and conditions that one accepts in order TO USE the free OS, that are binding in law. Corporate lawyers exercise their right to litigate if these T+Cs are violated.

W10 Upgrade EULA …

The new license agreement preserves the longstanding transfer rights: OEM copies are locked to the device on which they’re sold, retail copies can be transferred to a different device as long as the old copy is removed first.

Regional court exception: The Windows 10 EULA includes a specific exception for PC buyers in Germany, who are allowed to transfer OEM software thanks to a court ruling.

So now I have put you all to sleep – what about the Skylake designated PCs that come with W7 that MUST upgrade to W10. – Nothing but FOG from MS.

This is no doubt a licensing amendment being applied to a specific set of devices. The assumption is that the buyer will have to agree to a W7 EULA Amendment, otherwise MS will have to meet its own terms of the agreement – extended support to 2020.

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Very well reasoned argument.

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+1

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Reading you infoworld article, you mentioned Windows 7 the last good Windows operating system. I submit that Windows XP was the last good operating system. Windows 7 came about from a stripped down version of Vista, which got lousy reviews from most everybody involved. At least Microsoft stripped Windows 7 down somewhat correctly. Then came the public disdain for Windows 8 which involved the upgrading to Windows 8.1 and now Windows 10.

I wish the professional software applications I use would use Linux or Mac.

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I’m pretty sure politicians have paid very close attention, considering Microsoft’s approach to solving problems / lawsuits / issues:

Toss money at it.

I’d wager politicians won’t find any of Microsoft’s actions to be a problem, except if it can jeopardize their position.

As long as the population is ready to swallow the money pill…

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So now I’ve come up to a dilemma.

My current MB is about 3 years old and is starting to act up. The other day one of the audio channels (left) on the sound chip appear to have died, and I’ve had timeouts on the SATA RAID ports for months. Tried all the usual, firmware, latest drivers, etc. And yes, I use Windows 7 and plan to do so until the absolute end of life 2020.

So now it looks like I have to replace the hardware, the only problem is, non-Skylake hardware is starting to get a little hard (and more expensive) to come by.

What exactly will happen in July 2017? Will people with Skylake chipsets suddenly stop receiving all Windows 7 patches (and will the Windows 7 activation servers be turned off), or will it just be official support if you need to contact Microsoft? I can live with the latter, I’ve been in IT for 30 years, I know how to fix most issues.

So, do I need to switch to AMD chipsets to continue getting patched or stick with older generation hardware?

Or do you think that when they hit close to the date will business customer outcry be loud enough to make Microsoft reverse the decision? (I really think it’s just a short-term push to get even more people forced onto Windows 10.)

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All good questions – and I havent’ heard any answers…

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Maybe food for thought for an article. I can’t be the only one wondering what to do with my computer right now.

On top of this, what about businesses/corporations who have just updated their PC SOEs, based on the fact that the current crop of Windows versions would be supported for at least another 4 odd years. I work for a company which has only recently done this, and we didn’t use one of the big four PC badges, and our staff are all Office application users, who are not super-young, those people are familiar with Windows 7, and we don’t plan to go to 10.

And what are the legalities of Microsoft suddenly yanking the extended support cycle short by 3+ years?

Microsoft really must be made to own up to its commitments.

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It’s a tough call, but I agree with you: Microsoft should continue to support Windows 7 on Skylake computers until Win7 End of Support. I realize that it’ll be difficult for MS to continue to support Win7 on Skylake – rumors are all over the place – but, hey, that’s why we customers spent billions of dollars, eh?

What are the legalities? I haven’t a clue.

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I just realised something… Since Windows 2008R2 and 2012 code bases are basically the same as Win7/8.x there is really no reason to discontinue support early next year OTHER than to force push Windows 7/8 users onto 10.

Skylake chipsets will have started appearing on the server side already for some time, so if Microsoft will continue to support 2008R2/2012 to the original end-of-life date, this is really just another tactic to get the numbers up for Windows 10.

The security vulnerabilities for 2008R2 always exist in Windows 7, and ditto for 2012 and 8, so Microsoft will have to continue server support.

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