The gift that keeps on giving: Win7 Monthly Rollup KB 4093118 installs over and over

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Short version: Microsoft released a buggy Win7 Monthly Rollup this month, KB 4093118. Then, last week, it quietly replaced the buggy version with a ne
[See the full post at: The gift that keeps on giving: Win7 Monthly Rollup KB 4093118 installs over and over]

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CADesertRat, Elly

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I might just join group W for a while, or maybe only install patches that have been out for about 4 months to ensure they will work. This is just getting worse for every month.

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I hid the all the March and April monthly updates as well as the previews since February. Kb4100480, Kb4099950 have been installed.  When I check on March updates they are all unchecked. I sit here wondering if my computer is safe and when will this MS roller coaster stop so I can get off.

Windows 11 Pro
Version 23H2
OS build 22631.4890

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I can say I’m not seeing this behavior so far.

I Installed the updated 4/12 KB4093118, on a 32 bit 7 Pro and 64 bit 7 Ent.

Both installs went smooth and neither is requesting to install again.

Using Wsus on a Windows 2012R2 server.

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this did not happen to my Win7 machines when I manually install KB4093118 from MS Update Catalog rather from Windows Update when KB4093118 first came out on patch Tuesday 4/10. and when I run a WU scan after KB4093118 is installed, it does not re-offer that update. weird.

note that I manually installed KB4093118 on top of the KB3125574 convenience rollup for Win7.
Before KB3125574 had the latest pci.sys fix, there were other pci.sys hotfixes like KB2559078 and KB2708857. I think 2708857 supersedes 2559078 because KB2708857 had newer pci.sys files than KB2559078. try installing either pci.sys hotfix first before installing KB4093118 to see if that helps.

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ch100, abbodi86, woody

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KB4093118 install problem is not seen until after April 17, 2018—KB4093113 (Preview of Monthly Rollup) is installed.

Start here: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/microsoft-releases-major-update-to-win10-1703-and-the-usual-monthly-previews-for-win7-and-8-1/#post-185746

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woody

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I wonder if it’s a regression bug? The problem was in the original 4093118, fixed in the re-issued version, but present again in the Monthly Rollup Preview?

Odd.

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Woody, this is not a false alert.

It is a real thing which I encountered accidentally while doing a test where I also installed the preview for 2018-04 KB4093113.
I think it is caused by the preview being installed in certain combinations with other patches.

It is possible to have a reliable and up to date system now, but this require a bit of effort as discussed in few other places primarily by @abbodi86 and @MrBrian and sometimes myself. Susan Bradley covered this subject too in a separate post.
Briefly, these are the steps for everyone interested to follow (detailed instructions are posted elsewhere on this site):

– Uninstall everything released after January 1, 2018 – use WUMT as reference for release dates and use include superseded option when required.
– Install everything released on Windows Update until January 1, 2018. This should stop with 2017-12 Monthly Rollup KB4054517. Again use WUMT as reference for the patches installed and release dates.
– Install Cumulative Security Update for IE 11 KB4092946 released in April 2018 (Optional, but good practice if not installing other later security updates for now and to avoid a cosmetic supersedence bug in WSUS). Reboot as required.
– Install the latest KB4099950 msu from the Catalog and reboot.

Most people should be fine if they stop here for now.

People who want to be patched against Meltdown, Spectre and anything else since January 1, 2018, can go ahead and install in order only, while ignoring on their own risk the instructions from Woody’s current MS-DEFCON rating:

– KB4093118 as it comes from Windows Update (second release and current as today)
– Do not run Disk Cleanup at this stage, because you would lose the option to revert easily to the 2017-12 update in case there will be more issues with KB4093118, undiscovered yet.

DO NOT install the 2018-04 Preview to avoid the bug described here.

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anita.yk, dgreen, woody

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It certainly has me scratching my well-worn beard.

I don’t know of one, single in-the-wild exploit that’s been fixed by any patch this year, except the bad fonts problem, and the one odd Equation Editor hole.

I’d certainly like to be corrected if that isn’t the case.

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ch100

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I think what is going on with all those patches that get released for obscure security threats has more to do with companies not being liable financially for potential issues sometime in the future.
On the other hand, many patches are released proactively to protect as many computers as possible in case of a wide-spread attack, like the WannaCry attack few months ago.
We may never know what would happen otherwise, unless we don’t patch on purpose and create exposed honeypots with our own “production” or test computers.
Probably regular end-users are not immediate targets for the known threats which have become known since early this year and can wait relatively safely for a little while for the dust to settle. But they need to do their own bit and apply common sense at least when browsing sites with dubious content. And eventually patch when known issues have been sorted. It is an evolving environment and there will never be a perfect operating system regardless.

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dgreen

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Just to be clear… I DON’T recommend that most people uninstall all patches, going back to December of last year. It’s too much work and too error-prone for mere mortals.

Most people can mitigate the problems by not installing this month’s patches until they sort themselves out a little better.

Even then, I have a feeling we’re going to have a few leftover oddities at the end of the month.

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jburk07, Elly, fernlady

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This is why people should create regular Backup Images (before installing Windows Updates at the very least).

I use Macrium Reflect Free to create my Backup Images. I’ve re-imaged my W7 installation using my December 2017 Image.

-lehnerus2000

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jelson, amraybt, windows7wasthebest, Alice

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Yep, I don’t install  the previews.  I installed 318 and don’t have a problem.  Installed from WU.

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Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64 bit Group A
Sheeeeeeeeesh!
I think I’m going to sit tight with my rolled back computer to December 2017.
Only updates that have graced my computer are MSE definitions.
Besides Ms-Decon is still at 2.
To be honest, I am still not clear if I need to get 40999950 from the Catalog!
My last update check yesterday that kb disappeared. (It had been there and checked before)

I only have the 2018-04 Security Monthly Quality rollup kb4093118 and MSRT as important and checked.
The 2018-04 Preview Monthly Quality Rollup kb4093113 as optional.
Which I’m a little confused that the preview is still there, now that the rollup is being offered.
My head hurts!

 

Edit
Didn’t I also read, and I could be wrong, that MS recommends that you install kb4093118 from the catalog this month???

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dgreen wrote:

The 2018-04 Preview Monthly Quality Rollup kb4093113 as optional.

It’s the preview for next month–guinea pig version as opposed to release version.

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dgreen

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Right – it would be odd (but not impossible, I think) to install next month’s Preview manually, then fall back on Windows Update to install this month’s Monthly Rollup automatically.

I’ve never tried to do that, but it makes some sense, in a Seymour kind of way.

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geekdom

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I rather suspect that monthly rollup would disappear in updates list, when next month’s preview is installed first. I’m not inclined to test the theory.

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If you install the 2018-4 Preview (May’s Preview) the 2018-4 Rollup (Apr’s Rollup WILL disappear.

But do we install UNCHECKED OPTIONAL patches?

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The implication then, is that the Preview Monthly Rollup is NOT the cause of the baffling multiple-installation behavior?

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See abbodi86 reply here:

“KB4093113 is not borked or have anything to do with the issue

it’s how WU works with updates metadata”

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/microsoft-releases-major-update-to-win10-1703-and-the-usual-monthly-previews-for-win7-and-8-1/#post-185807

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There is also a link which explains why the update does not occur as expected:

https://marc.info/?l=patchmanagement&m=152405743619956&w=4

from:

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/microsoft-releases-major-update-to-win10-1703-and-the-usual-monthly-previews-for-win7-and-8-1/#post-185749

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It is an issue this month, like many other issues since at least 2018-03, not a regular thing.

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Woody, who is Seymour? 

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Woody, who is Seymour?

Don’t have inside info here, but perhaps da Boss has just spent too many hours these past few months on an adrenaline high, valiantly trying to deal with Satya’s “Not-So-Little Shop of Horrors”?

(Be well, Woody, and much thanks for all you do… 🙂 )

Edit to remove content.

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2018-04 Preview Monthly Quality Rollup kb4093113 is dated AFTER 2018-04 Security Monthly Quality rollup kb4093118.

It contains the April updates PLUS the preview non-security updates for MAY. Don’t be confused by the 2018-4 date- it is actually the Preview for the May Rollup.

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bassmanzam, ch100, dgreen, woody

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Leave it to Microsoft to give a lower KB number to a more recent update, adding to the potential for confusion.

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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amraybt

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Sigh, I am in the same boat, and these updates are head-spinning to say the least.
My old Dell desktop is on win 10 home 1703, and my old Lenovo laptop is on win 7 pro sp1.
I have not patched or updated anything in Windows or Office since last year; and everything is still working. I suppose there is a risk that one of the machines will be hit by a malicious office document or bad website. Backups to external hard drive are as important as ever.

Nevertheless I think I will do nothing in the way of updates until Woody moves to Defcon 3.

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@dgreen You are on the right track.
I suggest you to download and “install” KB4099950 MSU from the catalog. Uninstall any previous version first. This is only to have WU clean and not a technical requirement for functionality. Previous versions are identical in contents, only the internal logic of installation has changed to avoid issues with some combinations of updates.
Check my reply to Woody in this thread which essentially recommends something very similar with where you are at this stage.
Optionally you may look into installing the IE 11 CU, but this is not a requirement at all.

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dgreen

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Woody, you have often said not to install unchecked Optional patches. KB4099950 was, until today, an unchecked Optional patch.  Today, it suddenly disappeared from Windows Update on my Win 7 x64 machine.  It may come back and my question is this…you have included 9950 in your patching order discussion in recent articles.  Do you mean to say that this unchecked, optional patch may need to be installed at some point?

iPhone 13, 2019 iMac(SSD)

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Nope. If it ain’t checked, you don’t want it.

Rare exceptions may apply. But, as far as I know, not this one.

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pmcjr6142

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+1 here on not seeing this issue. Systems are updated via WSUS and I don’t ever install preview releases.

Red Ruffnsore

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ch100

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PKCano wrote:

2018-04 Preview Monthly Quality Rollup kb4093113 is dated AFTER 2018-04 Security Monthly Quality rollup kb4093118. It contains the April updates PLUS the preview non-security updates for MAY. Don’t be confused by the 2018-4 date- it is actually the Preview for the May Rollup.

PKCano
Thank you for clarifying that.  I deceided to hide the Preview for now.
Yes, the MS April update fiasco is the “gift that keeps giving”. (rolls eyes)

I see there’s been some complaints of MSE the last few days.
I just updated it.
I hope I don’t get hit with the “profile” issue.
I’m a little nervous about shutting down, or rebooting my computer.
If I don’t come back in the next 24 hrs.,
send out the cavalry!

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The Preview does not need to be hidden. It is unchecked and not offered by default.

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dgreen

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I asked this before, but my question seems to have been lost under all the Rollup talk:

Is this problem also affecting people in Group B, installing the corresponding Security Only patch KB 4093108?

Thanks, I hope.

Group B, Windows 7 Pro, Sp1, x64, Intel I-7 “sandy bridge” CPU.

 

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I haven’t seen anyone specifically mention it… but the problem seems quite widespread.

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OscarCP

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Short version: Microsoft released a buggy Win7 Monthly Rollup this month, KB 4093118.

No, really?

How unlike them…

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woody

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This issue is not isolated to Windows 7. Windows 10 1709 is showing up feature upgrades to 1709 (!) and previous cumulative updates over and over again for quite some time. Obviously, Microsoft’s Windows update system is messed up.

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Do you have any links to a description of this problem?

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geekdom

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No idea what’s causing it, and since 1803 is around the corner, who cares? 1709 is almost history…

However, below are the dates when the ‘Feature update’ was ‘installed’.

Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709
Successfully installed on ‎3/‎18/‎2018

Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709
Successfully installed on ‎3/‎6/‎2018

Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709
Successfully installed on ‎3/‎3/‎2018

and now it’s waiting for download again…

Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709
Awaiting download

The above happens to 2018-04 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1709 for x64-based Systems (KB4093112) as well..

2018-04 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1709 for x64-based Systems (KB4093112)
Successfully installed on ‎4/‎10/‎2018

2018-04 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1709 for x64-based Systems (KB4093112)
Awaiting download

Again, done with 1709 and just waiting to get 1803 installed from scratch (keeping fingers crossed this won’t happen again in the future).

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I just browsed the above answers briefly.

I’ve covered this error within the blog post Microsoft April 2018 patchday issues. A blog reader suggested, that update KB4093113 (RollUp) is causing the issue. Uninstall this update and install update KB4093118 – maybe it will cure the reboot/install loop.

Perhaps it helps

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woody

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Neither Monthly Rollup KB4093118, nor Preview KB4093113 are the problem. The problem occurs in how Microsoft handles previews under certain conditions.

Wait to install Microsoft software and avoid previews.

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Chessie

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# Summary of the issue:

– The issue happens only when preview rollup KB4093113 is installed

– Installing or not installing security rollup KB4093118 does not make any difference

– The preview rollup KB4093113 itself is not the cause

– Each new rollup (security or preview) supersede previous rollups automatically, regardless WU metadata
meaning:
1) installing KB4093113 automatically tag KB4093118 as superseded on the CBS level
2) on metadata level, KB4093113 and KB4093118 are not connected, KB4093118 takes precedence because it important security update

– the companion PCIClearStaleCache.exe only recognize number 2) metadata level
therefore, it rely on KB4093118 to be installed and active (not superseded on CBS level)

– For now, the only way to get rid of KB4093118’s PCIClearStaleCache is to hide the update

# Suggested Solution for Microsoft:

Instead having PCIClearStaleCache.exe metadata connected to each update that bundle it (e.g. KB4093118 and KB4099950)..
and since the tool check the installed Pci.sys version..
you could create a global Detectoid rule for it, that depends on Pci.sys version..
based on the vbs script and PCIClearStaleCache.txt, it’s version 6.1.7601.21744 (KB2550978) or later

example:
<ApplicabilityRules><IsInstalled><b.FileVersion Path="Drivers\pci.sys" Comparison="GreaterThanOrEqualTo" Version="6.1.7601.21744" Csidl="37" /></IsInstalled><IsInstallable><True /></IsInstallable></ApplicabilityRules>

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HiFlyer, ch100, woody, anita.yk, geekdom

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“Each new rollup (security or preview) supersede previous rollups automatically, regardless WU metadata”

Would the described problem also occur with the May release versions?

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woody

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Yes, if the situation remain the same

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HiFlyer, ch100, woody, geekdom

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The item 2 as described “2) on metadata level, KB4093113 and KB4093118 are not connected, KB4093118 takes precedence because it important security update” is likely to be so for compliance reporting which require all security patches to be installed in certain organisations. It is one of the reasons why some SCCM/WSUS administrators push ALL security patches, rollup and non-rollup in a month. This is not technically relevant or more secure, but looks good on reporting.

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columbia2011

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abbodi86, could you please elaborate on the use of that Detectoid rule script you posted? What exactly would this accomplish? Anything specifically regarding the 4093118 and 4093113 mess? And how does the latter relate to the 6.1.7601.21744 reference? Thanks…

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Nothing end users can do except hiding KB4093118

that rule is just a portion of update metadata, to give any Microsoft employee who might see it an example of the solution 🙂

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geekdom

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Ah, thanks for explaining! I ended up installing the preview for my sysprep image, and just hide 4093118. Interestingly, the latter shows up as 31kb in size on WU, and when I install it manually from the .msu, it “installs” equally quickly as a 31kb update would be expected to do 🙂

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Abbodi,

Couldn’t the user just uninstall KB4093113?

I realize that it’s often more than an end-user can do, but, since installing KB4093113 requires purposefully selecting it, it may be kind of solution for some?

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witp wrote:

Abbodi,

Couldn’t the user just uninstall KB4093113?

I realize that it’s often more than an end-user can do, but, since installing KB4093113 requires purposefully selecting it, it may be kind of solution for some?

Yes, it is true.
However, because the damage may have already been done, I would say that it is safer to uninstall both KB4093113 2018-04 Preview and KB4093118 2018-04 Monthly Update, uninstall KB4099950, reinstall KB4099950 manually from msu and next KB4093118, all in the sequence mentioned and with reboots in the middle.
All this is useful on a perfectly maintained system, with no hidden updates etc.

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witp

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Possible
but as you say, if the user purposefully selected and installed preview rollup, then he probably would know the consequences and want the update
it’s not reasonable to uninstall it just for the sake of erratic WU entry 🙂

more else, since KB4093113 contain new Windows Update Client, uninstalling it might erase WU database

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Elly

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abbodi, came across an interesting event that you may find interesting:

OK, so I installed 4093118 and 4093113. As everyone else, I got 4093118 offered again on WU unless I hid it.

However: I made an updated Win7 x64 image in VM and used sysprep and capture to create an updated image. When I install fresh from this, and check WU for updates, KN4093118 does NOT get offered (nothing is hidden because sysprep and my cleaning scripts remove any update settings, logs, or caches).

It gets weirder: but when I look under Installed Updates, 4093118 does NOT show up as installed. But it also doesn’t get offered on WU… So… fixed if you use sysprep to update images?

Is it true that, since 4093113 is installed (and it was possible to install it) it means 4903118 was successfully installed? This is what I thought. At least it’s not getting offered in WU and I didn’t hide any updates. The only problem being that it won’t show up under installed updates.

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Previews contain the Monthly Rollup for the current month plus the non-security updates for the coming month. So, 4093113 contains 4093118 plus additional patches, which makes 4093118 unneeded.
If you did sysprep with the Preview, you won’t see the previous Rollup.

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Cool! I wonder what about sysprep causes this mechanism. Either way, great boon that 4093118 isn’t getting offered anymore. Since, as you say, 4093113 contains the updates of 3118, it does not at all bother me that 3118 doesn’t show up under installed updates.

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They revised the WU metadata last tuseday and fixed the duplication issue
4093118 will not show if 4093113 installed

and on CBS level, all rollups are connected and only latest one appear in “Installed Updates”

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And by the way, KB4093118 is not buggy and did not change on the re-release, it’s just the delivery way that was incomplete 🙂

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I still am not sure what to do. Win7 32 bit.
Have installed KB4093118 on April 20th (in the catalogue, the most recent version in April 23rd).
Did not install the preview 4093113. On the 23rd, the metadata-issue was solved.
But I do not understand how as a normal user I get the fixed metadata on my system. Do I have to replace the ‘old’ 4093118 with the new one, or will all be handled automatically with the new May rollup KB4103718?

~Annemarie

P.S. Sorry for having asked several times, but I would really like to understand how that metadata-stuff is working.

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Annemarie, I hope I will not add new confusion. I read you as needing an explanation, if wrong I apologise. The metadata discussed is not important data that is needed on your machine. It is the with/among/after-data that is part of the delivery mechanism.

I’ll go metaphor here and run with the delivery idea. There is a bakery supplier that makes daily deliveries to your local grocer. The breads, cakes, and assorted goodies inside the truck are the patches and other important data delivered to your operating system. The truck itself, the markings on the outside, and the turn signals/brakelights are the metadata that come with the data.

Originally, KB4093118 drove in with a blown taillight, causing other traffic problems on its way to the grocer. KB4093118 later went out with a repaired taillight that relieved the traffic conditions. But the bread, cakes and goodies are all the same as they were before.

If you have KB4093118 installed, and do not have any current problems, you should be fine. Ideally all the delivery trucks Microsoft sends out will be in top running order. We have observed that is not the case, so cannot say with certainty yet that KB4103718 is good or bad. That is the fundamental idea of the MSDefcon system.

Are you currently experiencing some fault or error condition that suggests a troubled installation? Or are you checking to verify you are good, even while your system is performing within normal ranges of reliability?

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@Cascadian. The metafor does make it easier to understand. One part I still do not understand completely. The broken taillight van delivered its update and drove home. After that, maybe days after that, people installed the April preview and had the keep-on-giving problem, even when the brokentaillightvan was gone. Or must it be seen as this: the brokentaillightvan still remained on the very outstretched WU-ways. When MS fixed the taillight, that fixing happened on the highway (and not on individual pc’s), and from that moment on it could not cause any other traffic problems anymore? So fixed metadata does not require the average Jane like me to reinstall a patch?

At the moment my pc does not have problems (apart from the nightmarish hassle updating has turned into since the attempts to keep it W10-free). I won’t apply the May update until the Defconstatus changes.

thanks for your explanation and time, much appreciated!
~Annemarie

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Cascadian

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I’m glad my analogy worked as far as it did, to highlight the separateness of what is important to your installation. Beyond that, it might be misleading to take it too seriously.

I believe you kept within the spirit of the imagery though, with your follow up question.

anonymous wrote:

… So fixed metadata does not require the average Jane like me to reinstall a patch?

At the moment my pc does not have problems (apart from the nightmarish hassle updating has turned into since the attempts to keep it W10-free). I won’t apply the May update until the Defconstatus changes.

thanks for your explanation and time, much appreciated!
~Annemarie

In this case and with what you have described, Yes, I agree that you do not need to reinstall. I agree with your assessment, and plan going forward. Let Microsoft make its few mistakes, and allow the MSDefcon method to keep those mistakes at a distance, until they are better described and a plan is made to deal with them.

There are cases where uncorrected metadata altered the installation of a different patch. To extend the metaphor, when the bakery truck did not signal a turn, the dairy truck was cut off and hit a lamppost, and did not complete delivery that day. You do not complain of missing any cream for your coffee or milk for your cereal. Meaning you do not describe any errors or trouble in normal use. The ‘bad’ metadata has not caused a problem.

If there is lingering doubt in anyone’s mind. It is also acceptable to perform the un/re-install procedure without need. The hazard there is unpredictable things might happen whenever you fix something that was not broken. At best it is time spent on a minor issue, that was not causing a trouble or throwing an error. And so it is not given as advice to follow.

Glad that it helped.

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Could you please elaborate on the .vbs script and what it exactly does? Can we apply this and it no longer offer the KB4093118 update? I’m not sure what to make of its use.

Thank you!

PS: But yeah I did myself figure out it doesn’t matter if you have 3118 or 3113 installed first or last, it will offer 3118 regardless.

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ch100 wrote:

witp wrote:

Abbodi, Couldn’t the user just uninstall KB4093113? I realize that it’s often more than an end-user can do, but, since installing KB4093113 requires purposefully selecting it, it may be kind of solution for some?

Yes, it is true. However, because the damage may have already been done, I would say that it is safer to uninstall both KB4093113 2018-04 Preview and KB4093118 2018-04 Monthly Update, uninstall KB4099950, reinstall KB4099950 manually from msu and next KB4093118, all in the sequence mentioned and with reboots in the middle. All this is useful on a perfectly maintained system, with no hidden updates etc.

… and this makes my musings pointless.

End take : Don’t install Previews.

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