The bugs in this month’s Win10 version 1903 and 1909 Cumulative Update have prompted MS to issue a call for help – but where’s the telemetry?

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It’s good that Microsoft has acknowledged the bugs in this month’s Cumulative Update. I’ve looked and looked, and haven’t found any patterns. So I fee
[See the full post at: The bugs in this month’s Win10 version 1903 and 1909 Cumulative Update have prompted MS to issue a call for help – but where’s the telemetry?]

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Mr. Austin, Alex5723, abbodi86, GreatAndPowerfulTech, rontpxz81

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I think telemetry collection works when it used properly and only when a active issue is present. I don’t think its very useful to collect data from all these devices even when no problems are detected. But exactly how useful is any of the telemetry except when you have a issues affecting a large number? The shear amount of telemetry Microsoft collects is detrimental to being able to filter out smaller more isolated issues. I just think Microsoft needs a more refined way of collecting data about issues. So far their argument that more telemetry is better has not created a better update system.

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Cybertooth, lanceboil, rontpxz81

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[warrenrumak]

“Basic” telemetry level — which is the default if you install Windows 10 — sends the following info:

• Operating system info (edition, build number)
• Hardware info (CPU, memory, disk types and sizes, configuration values of certain BIOS features, battery sizes, printers)
• Installed drivers and version numbers
• If if you have mobile broadband, it sends the IMEI number and mobile operator
• App crashes and blue screens
• Success/failure information related to Windows Updates
• Malicious Software Removal Tool results
• Windows Defender results
• List of IE add-ons
• Usage of the Microsoft Store app (e.g. how you navigate through the store pages)

There is also basic monitoring of specific things they’re trying to improve, like sleep/wake performance.

“Basic” does not watch the following:

• Application usage
• File usage
• Internet usage
• Performance data around how the OS and built-in applications are running
• Detailed crash dump information (which can sometimes leak personal data that might’ve been in memory when the crash dump is captured)

The “Full” diagnostic level allows Microsoft engineers the ability to collect detailed diagnostic data from groups of machines that are exhibiting problems; “Basic” disables that, too.

But here’s the thing, right…. if Microsoft has a database of this information before you run a Windows Update, then they can proactively and automatically place a hold on updating specific machines if they suddenly see a spike of crashes after that update gets installed.  Or, a driver update that fixes a known bug can be pushed to you before the update.

Disabling the “Basic” diagnostic level through various means (firewall blocks, stopping services, editing the hosts file, etc.) may help you feel better about protecting your privacy …. you know, just in case you’re dead-set against Microsoft finding out that you’re using a Kingston SSD and Bose wireless headphones…. but it also opts you out of this protection.

Microsoft has been trying to get this right for, like, 15 years.  Those “Windows is checking for a solution to the problem” dialogs are just an earlier iteration of what they’re trying to do now with the telemetry data collection.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by warrenrumak.

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joltar, Great Lake Bunyip, Lars220

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Those sound great in theory, but it fails in practice. I have never had Microsoft do a good job updating drivers–the ones Microsoft provides are always downgrades and remove  features (e.g. NVIDIA drivers are old and don’t include the NVIDIA control panel). Furthermore, how often had Microsoft actually held back updates? Most of the time, they’re still sent out despite them known issues.  And any time they have actually stopped an update until it was fixed, simply following Woody’s advice and waiting would have worked just as well. I defer updates and avoid feature updates until the new OS is mature, and I have no problems.

In theory, Microsoft using telemetry to actually make the experience better might be worth the admittedly small privacy risk. But, in practice, they’re doing worse now with telemetry than they were with actual testing.

 

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warrenrumak wrote:

“Basic” telemetry level — which is the default if you install Windows 10 — sends the following info:

Operating system info (edition, build number)
Hardware info (CPU, memory, disk types and sizes, configuration values of certain BIOS features, battery sizes, printers)
Installed drivers and version numbers
If if you have mobile broadband, it sends the IMEI number and mobile operator
App crashes and blue screens
Success/failure information related to Windows Updates
Malicious Software Removal Tool results
Windows Defender results
List of IE add-ons
Usage of the Microsoft Store app (e.g. how you navigate through the store pages)

There is much more data harvesting sent to Microsoft then the above list (keyboard keystrokes…)

Just look at this old Vista data harvesting. With Windows 10 it is much worse:

https://news.softpedia.com/news/Forget-about-the-WGA-20-Windows-Vista-Features-and-Services-Harvest-User-Data-for-Microsoft-58752.shtml

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Mr. Austin

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Telemetry is of no use when a PC won’t boot as MS can’t collect the data to determine why. That’s why we great PC technicians exist, to fix what Microsoft have no idea is wrong.

GreatAndPowerfulTech

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Mr. Austin, Cybertooth, Norio, ryegrass

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GreatAndPowerfulTech wrote:

Telemetry is of no use when a PC won’t boot as MS can’t collect the data to determine why.

When the PC boots (safe mode…) after a crash Microsoft gets the cumulative Telemetry data.

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Great Lake Bunyip, woody

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I have never believed that telemetry itself could totally bail out the inherent quality control issues associated with the adoption of “end to end” software engineering. I am sorry Satya, but you still really need a dedicated in-house quality assurance testing program working alongside modern uses of telemetry. Artificial intelligence is really artificial and often not very intelligent.

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I have been suspicious of telemetry as implemented by MS. It does not seem to collect right kind of information in the proper quantity to aid in bug hunting. It seems to be more oriented in getting semi-useless information from users that is often not germane to quashing bugs in volumes that buries the bug reports unless the issue reaches a significant threshold. Adding to this is often it is after the ‘patch’ has been released that the bugs are even found. This all points to a fundamental flaw in the QA program showing it is too dependent on sifting through reports that are easy too miss until users start howling.

The effects of users howling periodically is tarnish the brand as garbage and that one should consider alternatives. Once the brand is sufficiently tarnished getting customers back is impossible and it will tarnish their other products.

My personal experience with W10 is that is a marginally functional OS that does some inexplicable things that never occurred with W7. My experience is moving to W10 on the work box was a serious downgrade from W7. And my experience with an underpowered notebook is W10 can be very difficult to upgrade, the notebook was upgrade effort was project for a friend. Neither experience, while anecdotal, inspires confidence in W10 especially when I am comfortable with other options such as Linux.

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Mr. Austin

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I just have an administrator account on my desktop. I do not have any user accounts. Am I safe?

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Is the account you are using one you created and named it “Administrator” (like when you set up the computer when it was new)?
What accounts show when you look under C:\Users in File Explorer?

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Thank you for asking about my user accounts. I went where you told me to go. I found maybe six accounts. I did not make any of these accounts. Yet, there is an account in my name in addition to an ‘Administrator’ account. Am I in the clear?

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Perhaps someone else set up the computer for you, then, and created the accounts.
I don’t know if that’s just a created account in the Administrators Group with the name “Administrator” or the “God Administrator’ which is more powerful.

You are probably safer using the account in your name.
There are two types of accounts used commonly: Administrative account (can have any name but is not the God Administrator) and Standard account. The latter is less powerful. Look in the Control Panel\Accounts and find out which type of account each one is. It is more secure to use a Standard account for every-day things.

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