The 120-day Microsoft security suite test drive

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	TOP STORY[/size][/font] The 120-day Microsoft security suite test drive[/size]
	By Fred Langa Frustration with most commercial antivirus suites launched a long-term, real-life test of Microsoft Security Essentials, Microsoft’s free anti-malware application. In one of the rare extended tests outside a lab, Microsoft’s software has quietly kept two Windows 7 PCs free of infections, even in dangerous public environments.[/size]

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The full text of this column is posted at WindowsSecrets.com/2010/05/06/01 (opens in a new window/tab).

Columnists typically cannot reply to comments here, but do incorporate the best tips into future columns.[/td]

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I have been using MSE for around three months now. It is easy to install and has provided 100% protection using very few resources. – potentially the recipe for a winner.

My only quibble is its updating through Windows Update. There seems to be two and often three updates released daily, but although I have Windows Update set to notify me of any updates, it is tardy at doing so. (Note that I usually put my computer to sleep when I leave it and it hibernates after 2 hours.)

I seem to be forever launching MSE and using the manual update button. I suppose I could set Windows to do this for me automatically everytime it restarts.

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In my experience with MSE. its updates appear in w/updates as optional with no warning that its not up to date. To make sure all was ok, I ignored them and on checking next day found MSE had been updated.
–
During the tests carried out by Fred Langa, he never mentioned what router or other he was using. I ran firewall tests at ‘Gibson Research Corporation’ with my firewall disabled and still got a ‘pass’ for all tests. I use a Netgear DGN2000 router.

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I think my issue with this article is that it didnt sound like it was really tested in anger. I have to say that I am not a Microsoft Advocate but having seen Windows Defender to be a poor relative to other programs such as Spybot, Search and Destroy, and having seen many laptops ‘protected by’ Windows firewall compromised, I can’t say I have a high opinion of Microsoft in the security field. Where I draw exception to the article is that we are not really in a time of high or mass security risks as in the days of Blaster or WSNPoem when malware went through businesses or organisations and brought them to their knees. My feeling would be that you should try giving one of those machines to a student, preferably an IT-illiterate chinese one, for a month or so. That would be a real test of Security Essentials.

Rob

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I, too, have been on WIN7 on a brand new machine for about 90 days & using the Microsoft Security products. It’s quietly been running in the background.

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I tried MSE on my new Windows 7 computer after dumping the bundled McAfee, but it seemed to slow everything down considerably. Access time for files on a flash drive was horrible and I stopped scanning a 2 GB flash drive when it wasn’t done after 30 min! Got rid of MSE and went with free AntiVir and Threatfire. Everything is much more responsive now.

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While Fred’s “test” is interesting, I would have welcomed his doing the same thing with an unprotected PC, as a control. I’ve never experienced any malware in all of the years that I’ve had PCs and developed software. I’ve used Norton and am now using AVG. I’ve had more false alarms than I’ve had real attacks. I wonder how much his system was actually threatened during his test period.

Our company sells some software that is currently being mistaken for malware by many of the PC security software systems on the market, because we use the same database manager as was selected by one of the malware authors. We need to instruct customers how to modify the behavior of their anti-malware scanners, so that our software can work properly. Black box, unconfigurable anti-malware solutions will certainly fail to be sufficient for some people.

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… I’ve used Norton and am now using AVG. I’ve had more false alarms than I’ve had real attacks. …

Our company sells some software that is currently being mistaken for malware by many of the PC security software systems on the market, because we use the same database manager as was selected by one of the malware authors. We need to instruct customers how to modify the behavior of their anti-malware scanners, so that our software can work properly. Black box, unconfigurable anti-malware solutions will certainly fail to be sufficient for some people.

And you consider that fact to be an argument in favor of what you have used and against MSE? (edited upon request by moderator)

Man oh man, black box is exactly what Joe Average and Granny Boo need, they can’t or don’t want to handle more.

I apologize for the rant, I do that rarely but sometimes my buttons do get pushed

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Generally and a bit @rde@ceh.ac.uk
and @Roderunner

“Not in a time of high security risks…”? I am sorry but that’s exactly where we are! How many home PCs of Facebook users and Farmville players have you cleaned yet?

Almost all of my customers call themselves “computer illiterate” an many actually are.

The absolute ease of use of MSE + Win firewall IMHO is unsurpassed. That alone makes it a #1 candidate for my customers. On top of that it’s at least solid performance makes it my AV tool of choice for my customers.

From my experiences with MSE (since August 2009!): When MSE seems to use excessive cpu (which btw I see rarely and on XP only) just re-install and it’s okay! I have never seen excessive cpu on Vista or 7.

Long scan times? No, just to the contrary if you stick with the default settings! If you want a clean base line I’d never do that with a product I want to evaluate, I would always use one, two or three different proven programs like Malwarebytes, Avira and SuperAnti or the like to do that full scan for the base line.

Fred Langa talks about public WiFi hotspots. What’s the question about the router got to do in that context? Us “professionals” seem to forget that the average home user has their computer mostly directly plugged into the DSL or cable modem. Most of my customers can not even fathom the idea of working with the router after typing 192.168.x.y.

Dear “professionals”: Please realize that the home computer “world” is completely different than the the corporate or managed office environments we may be used to!

Just for the record: I clean about 10 different home user PCs every week – and I have 46 years of professional IT under the belt. You may call me a dinosaur but hey, them critters ruled the world for longer than humanity exists

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hi Fred i to use MSE with Online Armor Pro & ThreatFire & a cloud base AV, Immunet (in Beta now with final coming soon) that runs along side MSE with no interference i’m happy with the combination & have found no slowdown with the machine as said in another post, looking forward to your update in coming months i’m happy with my set up thou would like to see a faster full scan with MSE as you said

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Haven’t seen it mentioned yet;Consumer Reports just tested Security software and Microsoft’s Security Essentials was rated highly (#2 in the free anti-malware category) You have to subscribe for the complete report but the introduction is free here: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2010/june/electronics-computers/security-software/overview/index.htm

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I’d like to see some real testing done on MCE. Wifi hotspots are hardly dangerous if 1)you dont have shared files 2)you have password protected sharing or any permissions set properly or 3)have virtually ANY firewall on default settings. Also a computer professional using a computer for daily tasks is hardly a high risk environment. It’s likely that most computer professionals could run with no firewall or antivirus and get infections. Put that software on your “average user” and see if MCE stands up against malicious facebook addons, limewire downloads and free poker sites or deliberate attemps to infect the PC.

Since 2009 we have been recommending Norton antivirus because of its easy of use, optional settings for more computer-literate customers, constant updates and extremely low resource use. by far the best pay-to-use AV on the market. Software firewalls are generally rendered obsolete if the user is behind a router because of their built in firewalls and most people are these days.

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I’d like to see some real testing done on MCE.

MCE is this a misprint or something else

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I’d like to see some real testing done on MCE. Wifi hotspots are hardly dangerous if 1)you dont have shared files 2)you have password protected sharing or any permissions set properly or 3)have virtually ANY firewall on default settings. Also a computer professional using a computer for daily tasks is hardly a high risk environment. It’s likely that most computer professionals could run with no firewall or antivirus and get infections. Put that software on your “average user” and see if MCE stands up against malicious facebook addons, limewire downloads and free poker sites or deliberate attemps to infect the PC.

Since 2009 we have been recommending Norton antivirus because of its easy of use, optional settings for more computer-literate customers, constant updates and extremely low resource use. by far the best pay-to-use AV on the market. Software firewalls are generally rendered obsolete if the user is behind a router because of their built in firewalls and most people are these days.

Were you paid by Norton to post here?

-- rc primak

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For a while I was recommending MSE for my home-user clients, but I took it off my list when Microsoft “pulled a fast one” and slipped the installation of “Windows Activation Technology”, or WAT, into several Windows 7 machines of mine where I had explicitly declined WAT in Windows Updates. This was discussed here:

================================================================
MSE Users: Check for Updates, Piracy — Krebs on Security
http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/03/mse-users-check-for-updates/
…
“It took a little digging, but here’s Microsoft’s account of what’s new in this updated version of MSE:

The latest version of Microsoft Security Essentials includes improved messaging on the Update tab,
improved scan reports on the Home tab, performance improvements, and enforcement of runtime
Windows Activation Technology (WAT) in Microsoft Security Essentials.

More here. ”
=================================================================
From the horse’s mouth:
How to upgrade Microsoft Security Essentials to the latest version
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/2019198?p=1

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I have been using MSE on two machines since last fall. The only quibble is that it will interrupt games to do its auto scan so the auto scan must be disabled. Also, with MSE installed I notice a delay when accessing the Start Menu (in WinXP). The menu is blanked out for more than a few seconds before the menu items display — this even slows down restart and shutdown commands. I was using Avast and reinstalled Avast during my testing and the Start Menu problem vanished.

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Just to let some know, i am a it Consultant, and the fact is that i have only two weeks ago, just fail MSE, why, a customer of mine call me up one evening i went into their office to find that the MSE protected PC is infected with a rogue Anti-spyware, security Tools to be the one, and i have a hard time of Two hours to browse the web for solutions and trying to remove the spyware, and only with the help of Malwarebytes’ Anti-Malware, we manage to remove it and my customer on the spot purchase a kaspersky anti-virus from me.

So How good is MSE, is really still a question to be ask?

thanks

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Just to let some know, i am a it Consultant, and the fact is that i have only two weeks ago, just fail MSE, why, a customer of mine call me up one evening i went into their office to find that the MSE protected PC is infected with a rogue Anti-spyware, security Tools to be the one, and i have a hard time of Two hours to browse the web for solutions and trying to remove the spyware, and only with the help of Malwarebytes’ Anti-Malware, we manage to remove it and my customer on the spot purchase a kaspersky anti-virus from me.

So How good is MSE, is really still a question to be ask?

thanks

I noticed in your post that you sell a competing Antivirus product (Kaspersky). Is money one reason you posted this?

-- rc primak

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There is a comprehensive test of MSE at http://www.av-comparatives.org

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I have been using MSE on upwards of a dozen machines (some augmented by Threadfire or Prevx) since 4Q09 with no issues. While full scans can take a long time they do not place an excessive burden on the system and resources are easily relinquished to other applications as needed. Also, no mention was made of quick scans which we have configured to run daily and typically complete within a few minutes. After an initial full scan I tend to stick with quick scans as real time monitoring and other sensible interventions should catch most nasties – at least in the environments/systems that I support. MSE goes in easy and stays out of the way which are key criteria for my clients. Uninstall is also quick and clean should the need arise.

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I have been using MSE on upwards of a dozen machines (some augmented by Threadfire or Prevx) since 4Q09 with no issues. While full scans can take a long time they do not place an excessive burden on the system and resources are easily relinquished to other applications as needed. Also, no mention was made of quick scans which we have configured to run daily and typically complete within a few minutes. After an initial full scan I tend to stick with quick scans as real time monitoring and other sensible interventions should catch most nasties – at least in the environments/systems that I support. MSE goes in easy and stays out of the way which are key criteria for my clients. Uninstall is also quick and clean should the need arise.

I find it interesting that you mention combining Threatfire and Prevx. Neil Rubenking of PC Magazine once (a couple of years ago) used this combination with no other security software, and ran aynthetic tests. Only 2 percent of his malware samples, even zero-day simulations, got through. No other test I’ve read about has ever found such effectiveness in any security product. You might want to dump MSE and just go with the Threatfire-Prevx Combination only. It is probably more than adequate.

Not that I have anything against MSE. I like the idea that Microsoft is finally taking responsibility for protecting their own Operating System. But those slow scans really put me off. I had Zone Alarm Suite a couple of years ago, and between the slow downloads of their updates and their very slow scans, I dumped them in favor of AVG. Now I use Avast and Comodo Firewall. Avast has anti-rootkit, which is lacking in AVG Free.

-- rc primak

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My compliments to Mr. Fred Langa for his latest article in Windows Secrets.

I started using MSE about a year and half ago and was very surprised to find it so easy to install and setup to keep me as safe as possible. I do not mind the ‘out of the box’ settings as I am not an Xpert with these systems even though have been using them since about 1985, in DOS only. As for the Windows Firewall, there are not words in my vocabulary to describe my inability to setup a “safe” firewall.

The testing and information provided is very comforting to read. Yes, I have done some testing myself, not as he has done, by some of my software that I had on my previous system (Vista SP1 and 2 32bit) and MSE found many of those old files as a problem and they were removed. They were for Vista 32bit and I now have Win7 64bit. No love lost nor any worries – bye, bye bad files.

That information needs to be broadcast more widely, plus I am also running Spybot Search & Destroy w/o teatimer, Super Antimalware latest updates daily, and Alwil’s Avast! v5.x.x FREE without any difficulties or conflicts.

Very good article – Thank you very much,

"Infinite CREATOR" cast "Loving Light" upon thee
TIA, CU L8R, 'd' "LoneWanderer"
"Only you can control your future." Dr. Seuss
NOT a leader,
NOT a BLIND follower,
Join US and LIVE this LIFE as ONE!
Original author Unknown

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…
I started using MSE about a year and half ago …

Well (edited upon request by moderator) “a year and a half ago ” would be September/October 2008! The first limited test release of MSE was sometime around June/July 2009! You really have (edited upon request by moderator)

… even though have been using them since about 1985, in DOS only. As for the Windows Firewall, there are not words in my vocabulary to describe my inability to setup a “safe” firewall.

Firewalls in DOS 1985? ROFLMAO.

And there is literally NO setup to be done with the default Windows firewall available dependably working since XP SP2 which was released in August 2004 if my memory is correct.The same IMNSHO is true for the firewalls in Vista and 7!

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I also really enjoyed Fred’s article. I was a Langa List paid member long before Windows Secrets. Fred has always been very informative, and I would trust his judgement above all else. In this case I am in total agreement with Fred about both Win 7 firewall and MSE. Glad you came back from retirement Fred, keep up the great work!

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I tried this it worked just fine except once or twice a day it attacked and killed me 3D art program Bryce.
Defender used to attack it as well. fine since i removed the program. now running Comodo again.

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“Eike Heinze“
Thank you for the information and giving me some corrections. Actually I purchased my desktop in July, 2008 and did start with a Beta version of MSE while still running several AV programs as well as several Malware/ Spyware programs without any conflicts. I do not remember the exact dates nor what all I had on my system. Just that after removing Vista vomit and installing Win7, that only took about 35 – 40 minutes to complete, I was back on the web and downloading programs that I wanted and needed to feel as safe and comfortable as possible. True, I am not an Xpert as I had told all before, learned what I know and how to keep me as safe as possible from the School-of-hard-Knocks. No formal training on any of these systems. Have progressed from Win3.1/3.11, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 98SE, XP, Vista and now Win7. Installed my own system with Windows 98 SE and Win7. Only one time in all of this time and many BSOD that I had to reinstall my Win98SE from CD. I managed to find my problem and solved it myself, on rare occasion received HELP from a friend or one of the Forums (about 50 of them) to assist me in my troubleshooting. No I am not an Xpert but do know something about my system and do my own work to keep it as safe as possible. I make my own decisions as to what needs to be done to restore my system to normal operations.

I would also like to see CastleCops to come back as they helped me more than any other. They all have been a great HELP to educate me on my system, Windows Secrets has also given me much information and links to gain more security and I do thank them very much for providing the FREE version of WS Newsletter as I am retired Journeyman Electronics Technician with about 62 years experience.

Again I Thank You for the corrections,

"Infinite CREATOR" cast "Loving Light" upon thee
TIA, CU L8R, 'd' "LoneWanderer"
"Only you can control your future." Dr. Seuss
NOT a leader,
NOT a BLIND follower,
Join US and LIVE this LIFE as ONE!
Original author Unknown

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“Eike Heinze“
… Actually I purchased my desktop in July, 2008 and did start with a Beta version of MSE …

I would also like to see CastleCops to come back as they helped me more than any other. …
… retired Journeyman Electronics Technician with about 62 years experience.

A personal note up front: I am always asking myself why some people have to hide behind “cutesy” handles like NTxLS (only as an example) and don’t give me/us a chance to send them an email; yes, I have read your profile. So I need to say it publicly:

Do you mean to say you started with MSE in July 2008? That seems to be unlikely to say the least. This Wikowdia page at least says “On 23 June 2009, Microsoft opened a public beta to 75,000 people…”.

I have used it since mid July 2009. The official release was on September 29th 2009.

Re. CastleCops: Have you had a look at BleepingComputer.com? I have found their articles and their forum very useful.

From what I read you best me by 10 years of age and about 16 years of experience, congrats. I better shut up.

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A personal note up front: I am always asking myself why some people have to hide behind “cutesy” handles like NTxLS (only as an example) and don’t give me/us a chance to send them an email; yes, I have read your profile. So I need to say it publicly:

Do you mean to say you started with MSE in July 2008? That seems to be unlikely to say the least. This Wikowdia page at least says “On 23 June 2009, Microsoft opened a public beta to 75,000 people…”.

I have used it since mid July 2009. The official release was on September 29th 2009.

Re. CastleCops: Have you had a look at BleepingComputer.com? I have found their articles and their forum very useful.

From what I read you best me by 10 years of age and about 16 years of experience, congrats. I better shut up. :wacko:Wi

Eike Heinze,

I had a rather long winded reply to this message with some explanations and other unnecessary rhetoric and lost it some where.

Just to tell you that was not an attempt to “one up you” or any other maybe miss understood attempt to try to look better than anyone else. Just wanting to let another know I am not an Xpert but have been learning on my own with some HELP from other forums. Wilders Security, MSFN, SaferNetWorking, Piriform, Dell, Pegasus Community, MSTechNet, SysInternals, just to name a few.

Will check out “BleepingComputerDotCom” when time permits. Above all, do NOT “shut up” because we learn from posts, talking about myself and others that are like myself, we need any and all in-put from those that are more knowledgeable in these areas. You evidently do not really understand how important you are to us, less knowledge and a desire to learn. Keep up whatever you do because I for ONE learn much from you and those like you.

If I wore a HAT I would take off my hat to you and say, “SALUTE”,

"Infinite CREATOR" cast "Loving Light" upon thee
TIA, CU L8R, 'd' "LoneWanderer"
"Only you can control your future." Dr. Seuss
NOT a leader,
NOT a BLIND follower,
Join US and LIVE this LIFE as ONE!
Original author Unknown

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“”I would also like to see CastleCops to come back as they helped me more than any other. They all have been a great HELP to educate me on my system, “” I did about 25,000+ posts there helping people. You may have been one.

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””I would also like to see CastleCops to come back as they helped me more than any other. They all have been a great HELP to educate me on my system, “” I did about 25,000+ posts there helping people. You may have been one.

“wawa dave”

YES!! You probably have provided much information that I have absorbed from that site. I thought that name or nick sounded a bit familiar. I did not post that often nor very much, mostly did read in areas that had the same questions as I had.

As I have posted in response to Eike Heinze keep posting as I read any that cover a question or group of them that I have in mind.

"Infinite CREATOR" cast "Loving Light" upon thee
TIA, CU L8R, 'd' "LoneWanderer"
"Only you can control your future." Dr. Seuss
NOT a leader,
NOT a BLIND follower,
Join US and LIVE this LIFE as ONE!
Original author Unknown

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””I would also like to see CastleCops to come back as they helped me more than any other. They all have been a great HELP to educate me on my system, “” I did about 25,000+ posts there helping people. You may have been one.

Maybe now you can help as many of us here in the Lounge. WELCOME!!

-- rc primak

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I attempted to access the online scanners, but to no avail. All require use of IE, which I use only when absolutely necessary. From Firefox I used IE View Lite, only to come up against a brick wall.

Fred–have you sold out to Microsoft??? Please say it ain’t so!!! Are there any online scanners that work with Firefox???

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I attempted to access the online scanners, but to no avail. All require use of IE, which I use only when absolutely necessary. From Firefox I used IE View Lite, only to come up against a brick wall.

Fred–have you sold out to Microsoft??? Please say it ain’t so!!! Are there any online scanners that work with Firefox???

“hammond mike’

For what it may be worth, I went into TrendMicro’s site and did a House Call scan of my system. My system is Win7 64bit and using FFv3.6.3, there is a choice for 32bit or 64bit so enjoy.

"Infinite CREATOR" cast "Loving Light" upon thee
TIA, CU L8R, 'd' "LoneWanderer"
"Only you can control your future." Dr. Seuss
NOT a leader,
NOT a BLIND follower,
Join US and LIVE this LIFE as ONE!
Original author Unknown

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I attempted to access the online scanners, but to no avail. All require use of IE, which I use only when absolutely necessary. From Firefox I used IE View Lite, only to come up against a brick wall.

Fred–have you sold out to Microsoft??? Please say it ain’t so!!! Are there any online scanners that work with Firefox???

hammond mike –

I installed the IE Tab 2 (FF 3.6+) extension on FireFox which allowed me to run the scanners mentioned in the article. That may work for you.

GM

PS – I should probably add that this extension seems to actually run IE within a FireFox tab. I don’t think it’s a real substitute.

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Nice article, thanks.
I too have been getting by quite nicely with the MSE package and the default Windows 7 firewall over the past 4 to 6 months. I have not changed my computing or browsing habits much and have yet encountered any significant infection, despite continued use of internet Explorer over Firefox as my primary browser. Microsoft has done a fine job in this regard in it’s free offering of a capable security package for it’s latest os.
I still believe that personal and system security will always rely more on the end users behaviors than that of any software solutions that any company could offer.

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Nice article, thanks.
I too have been getting by quite nicely with the MSE package and the default Windows 7 firewall over the past 4 to 6 months. I have not changed my computing or browsing habits much and have yet encountered any significant infection, despite continued use of internet Explorer over Firefox as my primary browser. Microsoft has done a fine job in this regard in it’s free offering of a capable security package for it’s latest os.
I still believe that personal and system security will always rely more on the end users behaviors than that of any software solutions that any company could offer.

“Clint Rossmere,”

I completely agree with your last sentence and feel that is the truest statement I have ever read. Especially regarding our own individual security. It is primarily up to the one using the internet. To feel safer has been made possible by Microsoft stepping up to the plate and hitting what we need for a change. That is to give us more confidence in our own usage of the net.

"Infinite CREATOR" cast "Loving Light" upon thee
TIA, CU L8R, 'd' "LoneWanderer"
"Only you can control your future." Dr. Seuss
NOT a leader,
NOT a BLIND follower,
Join US and LIVE this LIFE as ONE!
Original author Unknown

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I am not a Windows 7 user. However, I have comments that may be significant.

Testing the reliability of a firewall or sotware to protect against malware cannot be complete without exposing the system to known attacks. Experienced users might have formed habits that, in and of themselves, provide protection by avoiding traveling to places where they might be vulnerable. Fred, you said you operated in public places, and all that, but if you said you intentionally exposed your system to known threats, I missed it. I am told there are trillions (I have conditional permission from the White House to use that word) of malware threats lurking on the Internet. The means of attacking is varied. Allowing one or two malware attacks to see if your protection fends them off seems to me to be a very incomplete test.

Is it advisable to put all your eggs in one basket, so to speak? If protection software writers have any kind of a mindset at all, they may disregard attacks that behave in certain, maybe obscure, ways. Not to be a detractor of Microsoft, but is it probable that, even the giant, might concentrate on some types of attacks, leaving a system vulnerable to others. Would it be better to use a less integrated set of protection, from different companies, to maybe get a broader range of protection?

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I am not a Windows 7 user. However, I have comments that may be significant.

Testing the reliability of a firewall or sotware to protect against malware cannot be complete without exposing the system to known attacks. Experienced users might have formed habits that, in and of themselves, provide protection by avoiding traveling to places where they might be vulnerable. Fred, you said you operated in public places, and all that, but if you said you intentionally exposed your system to known threats, I missed it. I am told there are trillions (I have conditional permission from the White House to use that word) of malware threats lurking on the Internet. The means of attacking is varied. Allowing one or two malware attacks to see if your protection fends them off seems to me to be a very incomplete test.

Is it advisable to put all your eggs in one basket, so to speak? If protection software writers have any kind of a mindset at all, they may disregard attacks that behave in certain, maybe obscure, ways. Not to be a detractor of Microsoft, but is it probable that, even the giant, might concentrate on some types of attacks, leaving a system vulnerable to others. Would it be better to use a less integrated set of protection, from different companies, to maybe get a broader range of protection?

“Uncle Time,”

If I may chime in on this? IMHO you are probably correct from your point of view and in the view of those that are IT specialists because you are more concerned in several computers or maybe many, depending on the size of the company and many users of different skills, you are correct. I am speaking from the point of view of a Home user and an Analyst/Toubleshooter with only one or two systems. If you have a third party software that needs to scan your system it is OUTSIDE of the O/S and has a need to infiltrate it to do it’s job. If you have one that is native, or part of the O/S and is embedded well within the O/S then it already has some abilities that are built-in and already has much of the information about the system that is already a part of it’s operation. Less time required to do the job and can cover it better.

Maybe I am assuming too much, but; to me this scenario would fit my needs well enough without the need of additional software which would make my system lighter and run more to my likings.

Of course opinions are like exhaust pipes every car has one and they all stink,

"Infinite CREATOR" cast "Loving Light" upon thee
TIA, CU L8R, 'd' "LoneWanderer"
"Only you can control your future." Dr. Seuss
NOT a leader,
NOT a BLIND follower,
Join US and LIVE this LIFE as ONE!
Original author Unknown

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I am not a Windows 7 user. However, I have comments that may be significant.

Testing the reliability of a firewall or sotware to protect against malware cannot be complete without exposing the system to known attacks. Experienced users might have formed habits that, in and of themselves, provide protection by avoiding traveling to places where they might be vulnerable. Fred, you said you operated in public places, and all that, but if you said you intentionally exposed your system to known threats, I missed it. I am told there are trillions (I have conditional permission from the White House to use that word) of malware threats lurking on the Internet. The means of attacking is varied. Allowing one or two malware attacks to see if your protection fends them off seems to me to be a very incomplete test.

If Fred was at any Public Wi-Fi Hotspot, I can almost guarantee that his computer was attacked by HUNDREDS of real-world, in the wild, threats. So I think his tests were definitely realistic for home users. Of course, he could have downloaded a few Torrents, or gone into Facebook or You Tube, or a few rogue streaming-video pirate websites, or downloaded some questionable mp3’s. That’s what typical home users do in a typical week, and they do not clean up afterwards.

Is it advisable to put all your eggs in one basket, so to speak? If protection software writers have any kind of a mindset at all, they may disregard attacks that behave in certain, maybe obscure, ways. Not to be a detractor of Microsoft, but is it probable that, even the giant, might concentrate on some types of attacks, leaving a system vulnerable to others. Would it be better to use a less integrated set of protection, from different companies, to maybe get a broader range of protection?

Which is why I always use second-opinion scanners, like Malwarebytes Free and Super Antispyware Free. Good point. But you can only use one active Antivirus and one firewall at a time, so it makes sense to use products which “understand” Windows. Native, inside the kernel, true 64-bit protections are only available from a few vendors right now, and MSE is one of them. And the Windows 7 native firewall, while sometimes difficult to customize, is considered effective.

-- rc primak

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On the recommendation by Fred Langa, I downloaded and installed MS SE.

At the conclusion of the installation, an error message informed me that MS SE “couldn’t detect an Internet connection.”

I uninstalled it, and tried again the following day. Same result.

Given that I am pretty much online all the time, it worries me a lot when a product intended to protect me from internet threats can’t even determine whether I am online or not.

It worries me even more because Microsoft designed the operating system that I use and that allows me to connect to the internet in the first place.

It would be *very* hard for me to trust this product. I uninstalled it and went back to the old ways of protecting myself.

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On the recommendation by Fred Langa, I downloaded and installed MS SE.

At the conclusion of the installation, an error message informed me that MS SE “couldn’t detect an Internet connection.”

I uninstalled it, and tried again the following day. Same result.

Given that I am pretty much online all the time, it worries me a lot when a product intended to protect me from internet threats can’t even determine whether I am online or not.

It worries me even more because Microsoft designed the operating system that I use and that allows me to connect to the internet in the first place.

It would be *very* hard for me to trust this product. I uninstalled it and went back to the old ways of protecting myself.

‘mmcgown’,

If I may add some info for you to make another attempt, if you really want to see if it works. I had Windows Vista SP1 32bit O/S on my system when purchased, not going into full detail as to the problems I had, just after the SP2 came out for Vista 32bit I downloaded and installed MSSE and installed it. As the expression goes, ‘right out of the box’ it updated itself and did a scan of my system. From that day forward and after changing my O/S from Vista SP2 32bit I installed Win7 64bit, as my system is a dual core 64 bit processor. I made the change over to Win7 myself, not any sort of IT or programmer just a very curious Home User. Now to make a long message as short as possible, Microsoft Security Essentials has run with out any problems and has found many suspicious files on my system, Win7, and they were from when I was trying to learn Vista (barf, gag, hack, et ceteras) and nothing was lost because those files were removed.

Now to my suggestion, check your firewall settings for MSSE having access to the web so it may update the database, as it works just fine, or you just do not want to allow it to do the job it was designed to perform.

"Infinite CREATOR" cast "Loving Light" upon thee
TIA, CU L8R, 'd' "LoneWanderer"
"Only you can control your future." Dr. Seuss
NOT a leader,
NOT a BLIND follower,
Join US and LIVE this LIFE as ONE!
Original author Unknown

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I’m a little behind in my reading and only just read the issue of the newsletter with this article.

I’ve been using MSE for about a year. The experience has been positive enough that I started converting many of my clients away from AVG, which I had recommended for years, to MSE.

About nine months ago, before I had satisfied myself about MSE, my personal AVG license for my family’s PCs expired. At that precise moment, Symantec made an incredible sale offer on its suite with enough licenses to handle all the PCs in my home (running a mix of XP and Vista, no Win7 yet). I took the deal in spite of my long-standing objections to Symantec licensing policies. Worst mistake I’ve ever made in buying software – every machine with the software slowed to a crawl. The program also had a terrible UI. After a month, I dumped it and installed MSE. There has not been a problem since, either with performance or security.

Fred’s article mentioned the long duration of full scans. That is certainly true. However, MSE seems to do a better job than other products of receding into the background when other things are going on. The scans on my laptop are set to run on Sunday at midnight and typically last until 2pm on Monday, but unless my activity is incredibly heavy on Monday mornings I usually don’t notice. AVG and Norton are are just slow. In my experience only ESET comes close to MSE in this regard.

I welcome the “hands-off” approach. I’ve been installing and configuring AV & spyware software for 15 years and I was happy to find a more automatic solution in MSE. I feel no further need to tinker with this kind of software as long as it is doing its job well and keeping its head down. MSE seems to qualify in both regards.

Microsoft did get this one right. I hope it continues to do so.

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I receive an error ‘invalid win32 program’ when trying to install MSE on a 64 bit win7 OS I downloaded the 64bit install from Microsoft but the error says thre publisher is unknown

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I receive an error ‘invalid win32 program’ when trying to install MSE on a 64 bit win7 OS I downloaded the 64bit install from Microsoft but the error says thre publisher is unknown

Jim,

As I had stated in my previous post above, I am not any sort of an Xpert, programmer, skip-kiddy, etc. just a very curious Home User. I had my system 32bit Vista SP1 updated to SP2 on a 64bit AMD Athlon dual core processor and downloaded MSSE for a 32bit O/S and it worked just fine. When it came available, purchased 64bit Home Premium Win7 and installed it myself. Re-downloaded MSE 64bit and installed same without any difficulty and it updates regularly. You 3rd Party AV software may be interfering with the install especially if it is monitoring all of your system in real time. Try disabling any real time monitoring software, like TeaTimer from Spybot Search & Destroy, and any other that you may have on your system. I really could not give any advice as to what to look into as you did not include anything about your system except Win 7 64 bit. This is just an attempt to HELP with little or no knowledge of your system. Excuse me if I miss-understood or given incorrect advice.

"Infinite CREATOR" cast "Loving Light" upon thee
TIA, CU L8R, 'd' "LoneWanderer"
"Only you can control your future." Dr. Seuss
NOT a leader,
NOT a BLIND follower,
Join US and LIVE this LIFE as ONE!
Original author Unknown

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QUESTION: I have Windows XP Pro SP3 and am thinking of obtaining Microsoft Security Essentials.

One problem that I have heard of concerning this program is that it automatically sets Microsoft Updates to automatic, whether the user wants this or not.

Now, I don’t particularly mind this behavior, provided of course that I am allowed to reverse it after MSE is installed.

So, could someone check and see whether, in fact, one is able, under Windows XP Pro SP3, and post-install of MSE, to de-select Microsoft Updates on Automatic? (Check it after a reboot in case it resets itself.) Or, does MSE somehow render this setting “permanent”?

–GrandRascal (a.k.a. “Glenn P.”)

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I have Updates set to download but not install. MSE runs fine and gets its updates without problem even if pending Windows updates have not yet been installed. This is also with XP Pro SP3.

I have not tried to turn Updates entirely off.

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Before installing MSE on my new Toshiba Satellite laptop (Windows 7 Home Premium, 64-bit), I had set Updates to Notify but Do Not Download or Install. Installing MSE shortly thereafter did nothing to change this setting. So I did not have to set it back. If Automatic Updates does get activated, you can always change it back. Once installed, MSE does not care, and this Windows Updates setting will not stop MSE itself from getting its own updates automatically, if you leave it in its default settings (recommended). The version of Windows you have does nothing to alter these MSE behaviors on most computers.

I had absolutely no installation issues with MSE, but this laptop came with Windows 7 64-bit pre-installed, and was not an upgrade.

By the way, on a core-i5 processor with 4GB RAM, MSE scans 40GB of System and Programs, plus 10GB of a separate Data Partition, in 3/4 of an hour, much faster than Super Antispyware in Full Scan Mode (both products). And SAS is not slow. I guess MSE performance on Full Scans depends on the number and complexity of your File Structures, just as is true of any Deep AV Scanner. Sorry, Fred Langa, I do not see your “slowness” on my laptop.

As for competing free products, very few of them are written as Native 64-bit programs, from the ground up. MSE is Native 64-bit, as are Avast, Comodo, Super Antispyware, and maybe a small handful of others. I worry about using a “hybrid 32/64 bit” security program, as it might leave me less protected than a Native 64-bit program. This is why I rejected AVG, Threartfire, Malwarebytes, and a few other free programs. These programs are 32-bit programs with 64-bit drivers thrown in as an afterthought. Zone Alarm Free may also be this way. I just don’t trust programs which are put together in this ad-hoc way. Maybe that’s just me, but MSE does have the 64-bit quality I prefer.

If you want an independent evaluation and comparison of MSE’s performance on detection and removal of threats vs. other AV/AS products, check out this chart and article.
MSE (Microsoft on the chart) looks pretty impressive, no?

-- rc primak

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The Grand Rascal,

I have a friend that is in the business of setting up small businesses networks and some home systems and he has Windows XP Pro 32 bit and 64 bit on his systems at his home and downloaded MSSE and installed it wituout any problems. My system is Win7 64 on Dell Inspirons desktop and laptops all with MSSE installed with SuperAntiSpywareFREE, Spybot Search & Destroy, and Avast5 antivirus software with them all set to automatic updates, MSSE is a little erratic with automatic updates. Some times it works just fine updating every day then some times it may take a couple or three days to update or I tell it to update. Some of that seems to be maybe on the Microsoft end not having an update available. I have checked for some updates and it has just reported ‘None Available.”

I completely agree with Bob Primak if I may quote him here, “I had absolutely no installation issues with MSE, but this laptop came with Windows 7 64-bit pre-installed, and was not an upgrade.” I too have had the same experience with my system.

As I have told others, your comfort is up to you as to what if any protective software is used. All we can do is give you our experiences,

"Infinite CREATOR" cast "Loving Light" upon thee
TIA, CU L8R, 'd' "LoneWanderer"
"Only you can control your future." Dr. Seuss
NOT a leader,
NOT a BLIND follower,
Join US and LIVE this LIFE as ONE!
Original author Unknown

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I’m on a computer email mailing list where an experienced user says he’s been running MSSE and he found a ton of bad things on his computer that MSSE didn’t catch. Then tonight I was running it and it didn’t stop me from being infected by something called “Rogue.AntivirusSuite.Gen” and it’s a nasty bit of business. It appeared to be a Anti-virus and it stopped you from doing anything with your computer other than to click their own buttons or unplug the computer. It made the screen go black. I had to go restart to safety mode and I ran MSSE and it didn’t find it. Fortunately I had MalwareBytes installed on the computer and I ran it and it found it. I still couldn’t get online and I found info on the MalwareBytes website that explained further things I needed to do because this virus had altered my proxy settings. I have been keeping MSSE up-to-date and running at all times.

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. . . I’m on a computer email mailing list where an experienced user says he’s been running MSSE and he found a ton of bad things on his computer that MSSE didn’t catch. Then tonight I was running it and it didn’t stop me from being infected by something called “Rogue.AntivirusSuite.Gen” and it’s a nasty bit of business. . .

Bill,

The nasty program you had was NOT A VIRUS, it was a rogue program. The difference may seem academic but you should not beat the cow (MSSE) for something the goat did. Rogues and viruses are different things! This distinction is a technical reality that we have to be aware of.

It would be helpful to know what browser you were using, if you were using McAfee’s Siteadvisor and/or WOT and what web site(s) you were on immediately before the rogue showed up.

It would be highly appreciated if you’d give more details instead of “…I’m on a computer email mailing list where an experienced user says…”. Without knowing what mailing list you are on and without having a link to the “… experienced user says…” we can not check that statement out either. See, I could claim to be an experienced user but that does not prove anything; I could be using IE and rely on CA Anti Virus and have a computer laden big time with nasty programs of all sorts.

Why am I writing this in an age old forum thread? Because I have learned the hard way that MSSE imperatively has to be installed on a clean computer to be beneficial and that it is in no way a panacea. It fights viruses and Spy-ware really well but almost NO anti virus programs will catch rogues like what your computer had. In my limited experience MSSE is the best of the free anti virus programs! On top of that IMHO it is by far the easiest to operate, especially for inexperienced users..

Ooops, I just realize that I am defending the reputation of a Microsoft product. Now that’s new for me, definitely.

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Eike,

I too make the same errors, not on purpose, then there are some that seem to do just that and it is not an error. Also I C you are one of those types, yes I am typing you, that investigates as much as possible what one posts, that is good for us that are not up on doing just that. I thank you for this and for still posting and hope you do not take my posts as acceptable because of what we have exchanged before. None of us are perfect, just some are a little more thorough and can do much to keep us informed.
Giving Microsoft a GOOD review is not what any of posters are experienced with either, but; that needs to be done when it is an actual good one. I am also of the opinion Microsoft has been a little lax in stepping up to the plate with software that really protects their own, even updates are leaving much to be desired as well some times. It seems they are really making an effort to make things a little better for their customers, at least that seems to be in the right direction and I SALUTE them for that. Just keep that direction going to give us more confidence in them.

Any and all,

Now covering some of the other posts here, as had been stated in other forums there is not a single AV, Spyware scanner, FREE or paid, that can protect ones system 100% nor even several working together and many can do that, work together. I have learned some can and will work together to help keep you safer, some folks have reported none will work together, I feel that last one is probably more of individual systems and the way they are put together (referencing the H/W). My systems are running Spybot Search & Destroy, Super Antispyware FREE, Microsoft FireWall plus MSSE and Alwil Avast!5 (AntiVirus scanner) all running together without any conflict. NO, this is not put here as an advertisement for any of them, just to demonstrate there are some that will work. You just need to find the ones that will do this on your system. PLUS this is not a 100% protection, it is the one I am most comfortable with, it may not work for all nor any other system. Each will need to do their own testing for their own comfort point.

Thank you for reading my roasted poster,

"Infinite CREATOR" cast "Loving Light" upon thee
TIA, CU L8R, 'd' "LoneWanderer"
"Only you can control your future." Dr. Seuss
NOT a leader,
NOT a BLIND follower,
Join US and LIVE this LIFE as ONE!
Original author Unknown

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@Bill A Davis —

Regarding Rogue Antivirus similar fake AV programs:

These programs may try to prevent real antispyware programs from going out to their servers and downloading up to date definitions. To combat this, get a clean flash drive, go to an uninfected computer, and download the portable versions of Super Antispyware (download the portable SAS papplication HERE ) or any other portable AV product, plus the updated definitions files. Then go to the infected computer, boot into Safe Mode, and attach the flash drive and run the portable AV application. This does not always get to the roots of the problem, but it may save you from a reformat and reinstall. If Windows is so wrecked that it will not boot into Safe mode, throw in the towel and do a reformat and reinstall.

It may be time for some of us to add several up to date portable AV products to our Security Baseline.

-- rc primak

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