Susan Bradley’s take on WINDOWS 10 AND THE FORCED RELEASE

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Susan tell’s it like it is, Thanks Susan
http://blogs.msmvps.com/bradley/

First and foremost I think Microsoft is being a bully on the Internet. A big bully. The manner in which Windows 10 has been pushed out the patching channel has me seriously questioning if I want to be associated with this Company going forward. I certainly am naïve about the patching practices of this company. A few years ago I would have insisted that Microsoft would never ever allow a patch to be installed without express permission.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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I have never known of Microsoft forcing Windows 10 on anyone. It always requires user intervention of some sort. Upgrading just does not happen by itself. That being said, I have never put much stock in what Susan Bradley says anyway. She always advises to wait on important updates. I always install the updates ASAP. I have never had an issue. IMHO the Windows Secrets newsletter has deteriorated rapidly in recent months, even over the past two years. It is practically worthless as a viable source of information these days. Such a pity.

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I have never known of Microsoft forcing Windows 10 on anyone. It always requires user intervention of some sort.

Yes and no. Let me put it another way.

I don’t think it likely that someone who is quite methodical and diligent and careful to scrutinize their actions is likely to have Win10 suddenly appear unasked for. But it’s like the people who end up with a Yahoo or Ask search bar in their browser – it’s true that they probably gave it permission to install but were unaware of that because it came with something else.

All in all, while it may be the case that people are really only getting what they ask for, it none-the-less falls in the same type of surpriseware (my term) category that all unasked for software falls into. It’s clear from your message that you trust Microsoft to do the right thing since you state you always install updates ASAP. I’m assuming you have upgraded to Win10 and now have it set to do automatic upgrades. If you are happy with that, then fine.

I have one Win7 computer that I use for business and if it ever got “accidentally” upgraded to Win10, I would be screwed since I already know that there’s something on it that won’t upgrade. Until such time as the client (a multi-national) I work for decides to switch I have to stay with Win7.

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I have never known of Microsoft forcing Windows 10 on anyone. It always requires user intervention of some sort.

Absolute nonsense. I have two Win 7 laptops that were both trashed by an unwanted Windows 10 ‘upgrade’ that never required any form of user action to initiate. On neither laptop was the ‘reserve your upgrade’ option or anything else used to initiate it. The fact of MS doing this is well documented. There are thousands of others with similar unwanted ‘upgrade’ experiences.

Cheers,
Paul Edstein
[Fmr MS MVP - Word]

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Absolute nonsense. I have two Win 7 laptops that were both trashed by an unwanted Windows 10 ‘upgrade’ that never required any form of user action to initiate. On neither laptop was the ‘reserve your upgrade’ option or anything else used to initiate it. The fact of MS doing this is well documented. There are thousands of others with similar unwanted ‘upgrade’ experiences.

You had to have had user interaction. It will not upgrade without it. If the box pops up, and you do not click on the change, if you just close it, that is user interaction. You just didn’t realize it. Just upgrade, and be happy. What is the old adage? Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth!

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You had to have had user interaction. It will not upgrade without it. If the box pops up, and you do not click on the change, if you just close it, that is user interaction.

Kindly don’t call me a liar! I know perfectly well what happened; you don’t – and evidently could care less about the facts. Pay attention: There was never a pop-up box of any kind. See:
http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//171357-How-can-I-effectively-prevent-WIN-from-upgrading-to-10?p=1021353&viewfull=1#post1021353
http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//171357-How-can-I-effectively-prevent-WIN-from-upgrading-to-10?p=1021357&viewfull=1#post1021357
http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//171261-Cannot-stop-Windows-10-Upgrade-during-updates?p=1020425&viewfull=1#post1020425
http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//171261-Cannot-stop-Windows-10-Upgrade-during-updates?p=1021055&viewfull=1#post1021055

Just upgrade, and be happy. What is the old adage? Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth!

Thanks, but no thanks. As far as I am concerned, its a dead horse not worth the flogging…

That isn’t the end of the story, either. No-one gets asked if they want to upgrade before Microsoft surreptitiously downloads 3Gb+ of ‘upgrade’ files onto their system. For those of with limited monthly quotas, that can be disastrous. In my case I’m out of pocket some hundreds of dollars for this fiasco.

Furthermore, I have software that (according to MS) is not compatible with Win 10 – but that didn’t stop the forced ‘upgrade’ that trashed my systems. Perhaps you could explain why would MS even offer to ‘upgrade’ a system its own tools say has incompatible software???

Cheers,
Paul Edstein
[Fmr MS MVP - Word]

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Just upgrade, and be happy.

…and lose access to some older required applications?
…and lose the function of older, but critical hardware? (because new drivers do not exist)
…and need to relearn how to use the OS interface?

Ummmm…..NO!

This is total illogical BS!

-brino

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…and lose access to some older required applications?[/quote]Update your software.

…and lose the function of older, but critical hardware? (because new drivers do not exist)

It sounds like you need new hardware. If it is that old it is probably about to die.

…and need to relearn how to use the OS interface?

Clicking on a start button is a difficult task to learn!

Ummmm…..NO!

This is total illogical BS!

-brino

It isn’t illogical to upgrade. It is SMART to upgrade!

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You had to have had user interaction. It will not upgrade without it. If the box pops up, and you do not click on the change, if you just close it, that is user interaction. You just didn’t realize it.

I beg to differ. My wife uses a small laptop and she NEVER answers pop-ups, boxes, windows or other. She ALWAYS hands the machine to me for action. Two days ago, she put the machine down and we went out for errands. When we returned, she swiped the touch pad to wake the machine, she entered her password, as she usually does, and, lo and behold, the machine was in the middle of something strange. She handed the machine to me. It was in the middle of an upgrade. Not a box asking for any response. Not a notice about a future upgrade. It was processing, with some text indicating it was upgrading. I left the machine alone and when I returned it had been upgraded to Win10. It was a totally automatic upgrade, with no intervention or permission.

This machine did not have any of the “prevent Win10” software on it. We never tried to either upgrade or not upgrade. It was running Win 8.1, with automatic Windows updates, including Windows other products (Office and the like).

So, this is only a survey of 1, but, to me, it is clear proof that machines CAN be upgraded without intervention. YMMV.

Steve

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If you have Windows Update set to auto then you will get all of the updates – warts ‘n all.

Both you and I seem to have been fortunate with updates but a particular update in 2011 stopped some machines from booting up and I think this was the case also 2 or 3 years back for some – but would have to be reported before it was known about.

I always vet any updates before allowing them, but when an update appears otherwise benign, that could just have easily have happened to either of us.

I’ve never followed Susan Bradley either and made my own decisions.

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Pull is always better than push in the long run.

Maybe Microsoft didn’t have the time to wait . . . it’s a shame that there is so little of immediate user benefit in Windows 10, to provide at least some pull to offset the aggressiveness of the push.

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it’s a shame that there is so little of immediate user benefit in Windows 10, to provide at least some pull to offset the aggressiveness of the push.

What!!?!?!?? Windows 10 is so far superior to anything else MS has released it is pathetic. The user benefit is tremendous!

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What!!?!?!?? Windows 10 is so far superior to anything else MS has released it is pathetic. The user benefit is tremendous!

That’s personal opinion that not everyone agrees with. While I like Windows 10 myself, I wouldn’t presume that everyone else does.

Jerry

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What!!?!?!?? Windows 10 is so far superior to anything else MS has released it is pathetic. The user benefit is tremendous!

That’s what some people said when Microsoft went from a desktop interface (Windows 7) to a tile interface (Windows 8).

But there were lots of us who preferred the desktop interface. I actually tried the tile interface for about a month. I was determined to give it an honest go before writing it off. After about a month, I had had all of it I could stand, so I installed StartIsBack, and I then actually liked using Windows 8.

If what I was saying wasn’t true, then the “start button” add in programs (StartIsBack, Classic Shell, etc) would never have gotten much traction. But they have been very popular and in high demand, because there really are a lot of us out there who prefer the desktop interface.

I have heard LOTS of stories of people who got Windows 10 forced on them, without their consent. And many writers (Susan Bradley, Woody Leonhard, Paul Thurrott, etc) report this as well. In fact, a forced upgrade actually happened to Woody on a test Windows 7 machine. The writer of the “GWX Control Panel” program said that he wrote the program because many of his customers got upgraded to Windows 10 without their consent.

If Windows 10 was so superior, like you describe it, then Microsoft wouldn’t have to force it on people; they would be lined up to get it. Instead, people have to put up a force field, to keep Microsoft from forcing it on their computers.

The world is a diverse place. Not everyone is going to like what you like. And neither will everyone like what I like. I hope one day you will come to realize that.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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…. If Windows 10 was so superior, … then Microsoft wouldn’t have to force it on people; they would be lined up to get it [for free]. Instead, people have to put up a force field, to keep Microsoft from forcing it on their computers. ….

I modified the above, but I think the above nutshell logically sums up reality in an irrefutable statement. It doesn’t mean Win10 is bad. But when upgrading is free, and the majority refuse, and the company responds by tricking its customers into upgrading what does it say about the product and the company?

You are trusting this company with upgrading your PC, sending back numerous usage information, allowing advertising on your PC and deciding what apps you are allowed or not allowed to run via the MS Store. You are also seeing MS not supporting newer components on older still supported OS’.

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I have heard LOTS of stories of people who got Windows 10 forced on them, without their consent.

What’s the secret to getting Windows 10 without having to accept the EULA?

And many writers (Susan Bradley, Woody Leonhard, Paul Thurrott, etc) report this as well.

Not really, they just hint at it. Few facts are ever presented.

In fact, a forced upgrade actually happened to Woody on a test Windows 7 machine.

In fact, Woody never actually got a forced upgrade.

The writer of the “GWX Control Panel” program said that he wrote the program because many of his customers got upgraded to Windows 10 without their consent.

Nothing about forced upgrades here:

WHY DID YOU WRITE THIS PROGRAM?

While I don’t have any general negative opinions on Microsoft or Windows 10, I found the Get Windows 10 app’s relentless upgrade reminders absolutely infuriating because there was no obvious way to stop them. Of course I found some solutions online (of wildly varying complexity and efficacy), but I had a bigger problem…

You see, I also had a lot of friends and family with Windows 7 and Windows 8 on their computers who were also continually pestered by the Get Windows 10 app- and I wanted to give them a solution that was literally so easy my mom could do it.

The GWX Control Panel FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)

If Windows 10 was so superior, like you describe it, then Microsoft wouldn’t have to force it on people; they would be lined up to get it.

Many millions have lined up and got it.

Instead, people have to put up a force field, to keep Microsoft from forcing it on their computers.

It’s like blocking your chimney to stop that evil Santa Claus from delivering freebies.

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What’s the secret to getting Windows 10 without having to accept the EULA?

Easy, just be an average user who doesn’t understand what’s happening on their computer 90% of the time and doesn’t understand that Windows updates now include upgrades and that they may, at any time, find that their entire computer interface has changed and that some of their old programs may not work anymore and that some of their programs may have changed as well.

Come on, be realistic. Do you really think that everyone out there is as informed as you are? That everyone really understands what is happening? More than half the population believe those ads you see on TV that say “Call in the next 5 minutes and we’ll double your order free.” And you expect them to understand that for the first time in the history of Windows updates, an update may actually be an upgrade instead?

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Easy, just be an average user who doesn’t understand what’s happening on their computer 90% of the time and doesn’t understand that Windows updates now include upgrades and that they may, at any time, find that their entire computer interface has changed and that some of their old programs may not work anymore and that some of their programs may have changed as well.

Come on, be realistic. Do you really think that everyone out there is as informed as you are? That everyone really understands what is happening? More than half the population believe those ads you see on TV that say “Call in the next 5 minutes and we’ll double your order free.” And you expect them to understand that for the first time in the history of Windows updates, an update may actually be an upgrade instead?

That doesn’t answer the question.

What I was after was how to get upgraded to Windows 10 without having to click Accept under a big headline that says, ““Great, we’ll get the upgrade started”.

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What I was after was how to get upgraded to Windows 10 without having to click Accept under a big headline that says, ““Great, we’ll get the upgrade started”.

I am extremely careful and don’t do automatic updates and have managed to keep Windows from doing any more than repeatedly reinstall the upgrade notice in the system tray (that’s now been stopped).

As to the actual upgrade process, I can easily see this happening to people who don’t understand the difference between an update and an upgrade. Do you understand the difference between aktualisieren and verbessern? For many, computerese is a foreign language.

And, while it’s very unscientific of me, there are 1000’s of reports from people of unknowingly upgrading. It may be that every one of these people actually did press a button agreeing to the upgrade, but it’s quite clear that many had no idea that’s what they were doing.

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What!!?!?!?? Windows 10 is so far superior to anything else MS has released it is pathetic. The user benefit is tremendous!

I would say that the same is true of WinNT and Win2000 but the majority of users stuck with Win95 and Win98.

Win10 may be technologically superior to prior releases, but the extensive interface changes in Win8 and Win10 can be confusing to those used to WinXP and Win7. As a friend of mine has been known to say, “I hate software engineers. They love to change things, whether they need changing or not.”

People usually don’t like it when they come back from work and discover that the house has been completely redecorated when all they wanted was to have the carpets cleaned.

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I would say that the same is true of WinNT and Win2000 but the majority of users stuck with Win95 and Win98.

Win10 may be technologically superior to prior releases, but the extensive interface changes in Win8 and Win10 can be confusing to those used to WinXP and Win7. As a friend of mine has been known to say, “I hate software engineers. They love to change things, whether they need changing or not.”

People usually don’t like it when they come back from work and discover that the house has been completely redecorated when all they wanted was to have the carpets cleaned.

When you re-invent the wheel, it should still be round.

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What!!?!?!?? Windows 10 is so far superior to anything else MS has released it is pathetic. The user benefit is tremendous!

As Jerry said, that’s personal opinion.

A quote from Susan that I totally agree with:

But Susan… you ask…. Shouldn’t you be doing all you can to move folks up to Windows 10?

To that I answer… it’s not that plain and simple. Windows is a messy ecosystem and if you could assure me that EVERY application would still work, all printers, all devices, everything worked 100% with Windows 10 I would say that I should be shutting up and be glad this is happening as it puts people on a patching model that won’t have supercedence issues in the future. But here’s the thing, people have old stuff. People can’t always afford to buy a new printer at the drop of a hat or buy new software every time there’s an major release that causes it to no longer work. And unless Microsoft can guarantee that they will work with every vendor to make every application and printer and device and driver work, then they shouldn’t be so heavy handed in pushing out Windows 10 like they should.

The technology world in which we live in is not a dictatorship. And these actions that Microsoft is taking is damaging the brand of Microsoft in all of the IT pro communities I am in and in all the patching communities I am in. There is no more Windows loyalty, no more trust that Microsoft doesn’t have an ulterior motive in it’s actions.

I put W10 Pro on 1 computer and it is OK….. but IMHO it wasn’t ready to be forced down peoples throats as it has been lately. Especially since it wasn’t (yet) geared to include a lot of existing peripherals and apps currently used.
As an OS I’m sure that at some point W10 will be great, but the business model that MS has taken leaves a lot to be desired especially to people that are not as fortunate and ( I assume as computer literate ) as you djohnson.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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People that get ‘surpriseware’ didn’t pay attention to each of the screens that were presented during an upgrade of some product or a product install. I have never seen ‘surpriseware’ hidden in a Microsoft upgrade.

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People that get ‘surpriseware’ didn’t pay attention to each of the screens that were presented during an upgrade of some product or a product install.

True, but should every user be expected to be expert enough to read and understand what each of those screens says and does? If I buy a box of cereal, I don’t expect to open it and find a mix of cereal and dog food even if it says “contains dog food” somewhere on the package.

I have never seen ‘surpriseware’ hidden in a Microsoft upgrade.

If mixing the Win10 upgrade in with Win7 updates doesn’t constitute supriseware, I don’t know what does. How many people look at updates carefully enough to know what’s being installed? For that matter, how many people can figure out what’s being installed even if they are being careful?

While there’s no way to determine this, I’d wager that a significant percentage of the people who now have Win10 never saw it coming. The had automatic updates set and did the same thing they had always done – push whatever buttons Windows told them to push. It sort of reminds me of the line in Animal House, “You can’t spend your whole life worrying about your mistakes! You f***d up… you trusted us!”

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https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/67367/upgradegate-microsofts-upgrade-deceptions-undermining-windows-10

“…. if you click the “Close” window box, you are actually agreeing to the upgrade. Without you knowing what just happened. ….”

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Been playing with bits and bytes since the middle 70’s.

Everyone likes what they like, they like what they have become comfortable using – all they want is for something new to do what they are doing faster and easier. Change is hard to accept. Hard for everyone because it is a jump into the unknown – you no longer know EXACTLY what to expect. XP, to my mind is the standard which all Microsoft Operating systems get judged against for ‘fool proof’ reliability. Having been through Vista and 8.1 – 10 comes the closest (in my usage) to the reliability of XP.

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Here’s what Susan Bradley says in the above-linked article about the forced upgrade to Windows 10:

I really don’t appreciate the heavy handedness of the Windows 10 push that has gotten to the point now that Microsoft is scheduling the 10 update for you. No update should install without your explicit permission to do so. I don’t appreciate that it’s being done with the justification of “from feedback from Microsoft customers”. No, Microsoft, we asked you for an easier way to say no, thank you. No one asked you to schedule the upgrade for us…unless Microsoft can guarantee that they will work with every vendor to make every application and printer and device and driver work, then they shouldn’t be so heavy handed in pushing out Windows 10 like they should.

In fact, Susan is so ticked Microsoft being a “bully” (her word), that she says

The manner in which Windows 10 has been pushed out the patching channel has me seriously questioning if I want to be associated with this Company going forward.

I suppose you could say she is “hinting” at it. Personally, it sounds to me like she really means that Microsoft is forcing the issue.

Here‘s what Paul Thurrot says:

Frankly, this entire episode has been indefensible, with Microsoft introducing a non-stoppable, non-hideable advertisement on several hundred million PCs from around the world. And then upgrading that advertisement to thwart those who do seek to remove or hide it. It has changed the language of the ad, made no clear cancel choice available, and jammed it into the “recommended” updates that auto-install via Windows Update. If you read this site, listen to Windows Weekly or What the Tech, you know how bad things are. It’s been a constant refrain…Last week, Microsoft silently changed Get Windows 10 yet again. And this time, it has gone beyond the social engineering scheme that has been fooling people into inadvertently upgrading to Windows 10 for months. This time, it actually changed the behavior of the window that appears so that if you click the “Close” window box, you are actually agreeing to the upgrade. Without you knowing what just happened.

Although this doesn’t say that Microsoft is forcing Windows 10 onto people’s computers, it does say that they are tricking people into agreeing to upgrade to Windows 10.

Here, Woody Leonhard recounts the stories of some users who were upgraded to Windows 10 without their consent, with some of the computers then being unusable in one way or another — the user having to input a password they haven’t used in years, or they can’t use Windows 10; or the shared folders being inaccessible after the upgrade to 10.

And this is the article in which Woody says that Microsoft attempted to upgrade his test Windows 7 machine, because he had automatic updates running (a lot of people do, at Microsoft’s recommendation), and because Microsoft classified the upgrade to Windows 10 as a recommended, not important, update. And the upgrade proceeded, even though Woody had unchecked the box, signifying that he didn’t want to install the upgrade.

In fact, Woody never actually got a forced upgrade.

True; but Microsoft did try to do the Windows 10 upgrade. The fact that the upgrade failed doesn’t take away from the fact that Microsoft tried to upgrade Woody to Windows 10 specifically against his wishes.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Here, Woody Leonhard recounts the stories of some users who were upgraded to Windows 10 without their consent,

That’s what I meant by hints, no facts. A couple of anonymous comments trawled from the internet.

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Here, Woody Leonhard recounts the stories of some users who were upgraded to Windows 10 without their consent,

That’s what I meant by hints, no facts. A couple of anonymous comments trawled from the internet.

Woody believes that they are true, and I’m not prepared to call them liars. I suppose we could try to find out who they are and where they live, and then go visit them, to make sure that they are telling the truth.

As I said, it’s not just Woody saying this; it’s a lot of well-respected columnists saying it; and it’s a lot of “anonymous” people posting comments in response to these articles.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Woody believes that they are true, and I’m not prepared to call them liars. I suppose we could try to find out who they are and where they live, and then go visit them, to make sure that they are telling the truth.

Here, Woody Leonhard recounts the stories of some users who were upgraded to Windows 10 without their consent,

That’s what I meant by hints, no facts. A couple of anonymous comments trawled from the internet.

As I said, it’s not just Woody saying this; it’s a lot of well-respected columnists saying it; and it’s a lot of “anonymous” people posting comments in response to these articles.[/QUOTE]
And I’m hardly anonymous…

Cheers,
Paul Edstein
[Fmr MS MVP - Word]

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What would have helped MS’s cause would have been if they had released Win 10 as a finished product instead of a Beta where each update seems to break something for someone somewhere.

People need to know what they are getting instead of the numerous horror stories and then it will be theirs and only their decision if they want to upgrade.

Fortunately, we don’t have much longer to wait before this MS piracy of our machines ends.

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My experience was somewhat different.

I eventually decided to give it a try but couldn’t see what I could do better in Win 10 that I couldn’t already do in Win 7.

It didn’t work out for me because Cortana didn’t recognise that I was in the UK and using English Language (UK) – but the end came when the Start menu went completely dead and not being able to do anything with it – I factory reset it with Recovery Disks then restored with the system image I’d created prior to the upgrade.

It certainly didn’t prove to be a “gift horse” for me.

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I believe that user intervention is necessary for the Win10 upgrade to come to completion under normal circumstances. However I also believe it’s very possible there is a possibility of a “glitch” in the upgrade process in which the Win10 upgrade can automatically occur for whatever reason which will never be known.
— What I’m saying is it’s possible an unattended Win10 upgrade might not a forced upgrade but a “glitched” upgrade.
— I can’t quote any data or statistics but with what I don’t know how many millions of computers have been upgraded to Windows 10, but the unattended Windows upgrade might be in the 1% area.

OK so that’s a belief – I suppose it’s an opinion – that’s ok my friends.
But honest peoples testimony are a fact.
We’ve already had one member state his experience.
One of my friends who lives in another state called me one morning and told me how her computer was upgraded to Windows 10 overnight automatically.
— I asked her every question possible about what she clicked on or saw.
— She did not see how it started, didn’t click on anything to agree on accepting the license terms.
— All she knows is the computer was on Windows 10 and on her login screen.
— I believe her because she is a trustworthy person and would have told me whether or not she clicked on anything at any time before she went to bed and when she got up in the morning.
With all of that said, I don’t believe MSFT literally forces a Windows 10 upgrade I I believe that a “glitch” is involved.

Here is an exact example of what I saw on one of my friend’s computer.
The following screen shot appeared on his computer.
Since he wanted to see how Win10 would run on his computer, I told him to let it go through.
He did wait for the full hour countdown.

44595-Your-Windows-10-upgrade-is-almost-here

My observations are:
There isn’t any user intervention to allow the upgrade process to begin
I’ve read that clicking on the x in the upper right corner doesn’t stop the process
Unfortunately I didn’t save any of those articles but my question is this: Do any one of you know factually whether or not clicking on the x in the upper right corner stops or doesn’t stop the process?

Moving on: unfortunately I couldn’t stay at my friends house through the whole process.
I asked my friend to let me know whether or not he would have to accept or decline the license agreement.
Well I got the typical answer: “I think I did” but he added that it was at the end because that’s when his Windows 10 went into the login screen.
That certainly involves user intervention but I wish I had been there to see when it did actually occur.

All right now another question comes to mind as I think about my friend who lives in another state and the Win10 overnight upgrade occurred.
I suspect the EULA had to appear but she wasn’t there to accept or decline.
In such a case, the EULA should have just stayed there for the rest of the night even if it was as long as 8, maybe 10 hours. Is that a fact?
Is it possible that after some period of inactivity without a selection being made that the accept selection would happen automatically?

I’m not in the computer business but from the people whose computers have been upgraded to Windows 10 without their permission or even knowledge after the fact, many of them I’ve read about happened overnight.

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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My observations are:
There isn’t any user intervention to allow the upgrade process to begin
I’ve read that clicking on the x in the upper right corner doesn’t stop the process
Unfortunately I didn’t save any of those articles but my question is this: Do any one of you know factually whether or not clicking on the x in the upper right corner stops or doesn’t stop the process?

It seems that was the case, but MS have changed it. Also, they have added a Cancel link.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36376962

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One wrong click could get you Windows 10 — whether you want it or not
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/one-wrong-click-could-windows-183438395.html
This article definitely points out not to click on the x in the upper right corner if the Windows 10 upgrade isn’t wanted.
— So no, technically this isn’t a forced upgrade as it does involve user intervention, but how is the average computer user to know not to click on that x especially when that’s a common choice to make in order to close out a dialog box.

And that article includes the following MSFT article
Windows 10 upgrade: How-to information on scheduling and notifications
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3095675
Included in this article is “If you click on OK or on the red “X”, you’re all set for the upgrade and there is nothing further to do. “
— Does anyone know whether or not a EULA is eventually involved once “you’re all set for the upgrade and there is nothing further to do?

Now I have to admit that in such a situation it isn’t a “glitched” upgrade.
So I suppose another scenario is possible.
User intervention doesn’t necessarily mean the user is voluntarily upgrading to Windows 10 but is unknowingly allowing the Windows 10 upgrade.

With that said, expert and knowledgeable computer users who are on top of what’s going on will deal with such a situation but there isn’t much “wiggle” room for the average computer user to handle that procedure and the issue is this: MSFT is taking advantage of the average computer user in that case.

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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I never added anything to any of my computers, meaning GWX or any of the hacks to stop the update. I must confess I always look with some amusement the pressing worries about using GWX and other hacks to prevent the update process.

I install Windows updates when I decide to do it, not when Windows decides it’s time to update. I have 3 computers that are candidates to a Windows 10 upgrade and have never been bothered in any of the computers and they are all still running my OS of choice (Windows 8.1).

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I never added anything to any of my computers, meaning GWX or any of the hacks to stop the update. I must confess I always look with some amusement the pressing worries about using GWX and other hacks to prevent the update process.

Your experience parallels a number of other people but still others have different experiences – and that’s what’s so aggravating about this. It’s almost impossible to know exactly what’s going on because different people are having different results.

I have two computers with Win7. One of them showed the Upgrade icon in the system tray once but after I got rid of it, it never came back. The other I have to check every time I do an update because it actually downloaded the upgrade one night and every update results in the Upgrade icon showing up.

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The adage “Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth” does NOT mean “don’t refuse free gifts”.

It means it is rude to accept a gift then openly look to see if it is any good.

I posted this link in the W7 forum which shows that MS has relented a little from the trickery which meant that folk were agreeing to have W10 without realising what they were doing: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36376962

Kind of shows they know they overstepped the mark.

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More blowback from the industry:

http://www.itworld.com/article/3075018/windows-pcs/microsoft-breaks-own-design-rules-in-dupe-the-user-windows-10-upgrade-tactic.html?token=%23tk.ITWNLE_nlt_itworld_today_2016-05-26&idg_eid=afd6a5c51c18bde420bf732d9dffc3c3&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ITworld%20Today%202016-05-26&utm_term=itworld_today

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Well just WAIT for the OTHER SHOE to drop!

After you UPGRADE, Windows 10 Apps UPGRADE PAST your device drivers and NO LONGER WILL WORK!

The Facebook app updated past my Direct3D settings and now no longer works!

44607-FBsorry3D

This happened to my XP laptop that I upgraded to Windows 10

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The Facebook app updated past my Direct3D settings and now no longer works!

That would have happened if you’d upgraded to any Windows version that ships with DirectX above 9. You need to download and install the DX 9.0c redistributable, extract and then install it – this will patch the default DX12 to enable DX9 features. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=8109

There’s a chance, however, that your hardware isn’t fully DX 9 compatible, some hardware, esp. video hardware, of the XP era, is only partially compatible.

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It appears to me that this is one of the methods in which Win10 can automatically be installed which might apply without the user knowing about it in time.
— And are there factually times in which the EULA isn’t presented or maybe even missed?

This is a typical reserve Windows 10 screenshot that can appear in Windows Update and all the user has to do is click on reserve. (This is user intervention #1)
44610-Reserve-your-free-upgrade-to-Win10-tdy

This is a typical reserve screenshot being informed of Windows 10 upgrade being reserved.
We’ll let you know when the upgrade is ready to be installed on this PC message is included in this dialog box.

44611-Wind10-upgrade-reserved

When it’s time, Your Win10 upgrade is almost here dialog box will show up.
User intervention at this point isn’t needed for someone who wants the upgrade.
However if someone has changed their mind it doesn’t appear to be possible to stop this process
Clicking on the x won’t do it, which MSFT has already confirmed
If the user isn’t at the computer when the dialog box shows up or during the countdown period but the user returns to the computer later on during the upgrade process it’s easy for the owner to think the upgrade is happening without their permission.

44595-Your-Win10-upgrade-is-almost-here

I believe the EULA should be presented somewhere during the process and I agree with BruceR’s comment in post 16 “What’s the secret to getting Windows 10 without having to accept the EULA?”
In my friends case he stated it appeared at the end and to me it is what it is whether or not the procedure is a surprise to them.
But a possible scenario is the user could be doing something else for the total time since the countdown screen appeared until the EULA is presented.
That’s when a user can be under the impression the Windows 10 upgrade has been done without their knowledge or permission.

Now comes the EULA part: it should appear and regardless of whether or not the user has changed their mind, it needs to be accepted or denied.
If anyone has not seen a EULA at anytime during an upgrade process on YOUR computer, please make that statement in very specific terms.

Now here’s another one of my comments in which I would had saved an article.
I have read that if the EULA is not checked it will automatically be accepted after some idle time period.
If anyone is willing to do so, please leave the EULA screen idle for some extended period of time and let us know whether or not the Windows 10 upgrade has come to completion.
I can’t give a time period to count on but in my case if I can get involved in helping some to upgrade to Windows 10 normally, when the EULA appears I’ll do all I can to convince that person to let it run as long as overnight because I’m really interested in finding out about that possibility.

If I knew how to post a poll specifically addressing the EULA issue with only a YES or No answer I would but I don’t know how to do that.

Please note all I’ve presented so far is one of umpteen methods in which the Windows 10 upgrade can happen and is only representative of a user intervention and EULA process.

For the experts and knowledgeable computer users who use the MCT or ISO methods those are procedures that shouldn’t be involved in surprised upgrades or EULA choices.

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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In the UK at least, “if the EULA is not checked it will automatically be accepted after some idle time period” does not constitute acceptance. Such an “agreement” would be 100% unenforceable.

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Thank you MartinM. Since accepting the EULA doesn’t happen, does that mean the user will be offered to return the system back to the OS that was attempting to be upgraded to Windows 10 or have the opportunity to complete the upgrade??

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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I’m using Windows 7 without automatic updates. Within the last week, I’ve had two pop-ups show up about Windows 10. My options are to X-out, Upgrade, or OK. That is it. There is no decline, unless OK now means no. I’m in the middle of a big project and don’t want to go through the hassles my husband has with Windows 10. He had 8.1 and hated it. Windows 10 was an improvement, but he is often having problems with programs, and then after restarting a few times, programs will get back to working.

My solution so far is to go to shut-down and close out the computer without touching the pop-up. That is eliminating the pop-up and so far I haven’t had Windows 10 loaded on my computer.

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I’m using Windows 7 without automatic updates. Within the last week, I’ve had two pop-ups show up about Windows 10. My options are to X-out, Upgrade, or OK. That is it. There is no decline, unless OK now means no. I’m in the middle of a big project and don’t want to go through the hassles my husband has with Windows 10. He had 8.1 and hated it. Windows 10 was an improvement, but he is often having problems with programs, and then after restarting a few times, programs will get back to working.

My solution so far is to go to shut-down and close out the computer without touching the pop-up. That is eliminating the pop-up and so far I haven’t had Windows 10 loaded on my computer.

I would suggest that you install the GWX Control Panel which fights MS on this.

http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/gwx_control_panel.html

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Earlier this evening my wife had to leave her computer in the middle of a job and as usual relied on it hibernating and being available when she was able to return.

WE ARE NOW IN THE PROCESS OF TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF THE WINDOWS10 THAT WAS INSTALLED IN HER ABSENCE.

Well done Microsoft – hello linux!!

Absolutely unbelievable.

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Earlier this evening my wife had to leave her computer in the middle of a job and as usual relied on it hibernating and being available when she was able to return.

WE ARE NOW IN THE PROCESS OF TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF THE WINDOWS10 THAT WAS INSTALLED IN HER ABSENCE.

Well done Microsoft – hello linux!!

Absolutely unbelievable.

If you want to revert, this article will help – http://www.howtogeek.com/220723/how-to-uninstall-windows-10-and-downgrade-to-windows-7-or-8.1/

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Thank you but we already reversed the upgrade within minutes of discovering what had happened.

I’m described here as a “New Lounger” but we’ve used Windows since Win286 and I was a beta tester for Win3.1.
I’ve received this Newsletter since the time that Fred Langa started it as his “List” …
but again thank you.

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This is tin foil hat stuff, but I keep wondering why Microsoft is being this aggressive about changing everyone to Windows 10 and I keep coming around to my theory that NSA or one of the alphabet agencies is paying Microsoft a lot of money or providing other consideration because they have a way to backdoor Windows 10.

This is simply my theory based on what fits the situation post-Snowden, etc.

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Thank you but we already reversed the upgrade within minutes of discovering what had happened.

I’m described here as a “New Lounger” but we’ve used Windows since Win286 and I was a beta tester for Win3.1.
I’ve received this Newsletter since the time that Fred Langa started it as his “List” …
but again thank you.

The New Lounger tag only reflects your number of posts and not your level of competence/expertise – it’s just that those of us with more posts don’t have lives of our own :D:

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IMHO Microsoft is playing the Shell Game (pun intended) with the Get Windows 10 application and unintended upgrades.

User interaction through sleight-of-hand (especially when the GWX application consistently changes and obfuscates the actual intentions of the end user) are eroding the confidence of many.

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I knowingly installed Windows 10 Pro on my desktop. Everything went well and I was learning the new system. I made the decision to go ahead and install the Windows 10 Home version on two laptops that I own. Of course then Microsoft has full control of when they install updates. Now the Pro desktop is still hanging in there, but when Microsoft pushed out the last version, It did not install correctly on both of the laptops. It scrambled the master boot records section so badly that I could not get either one of the laptops to boot. Microsoft in all its wisdom, tells me that I have installed software that did not go well, to uninstall that software and everything should be good to go. No where could I find an option to roll back to the last known good setup, and since they had been the ones that screwed the pooch, looks like they would have given me some way to get rid of that update. If there is, I could not find it. I could not even roll back to the original setup of Windows 7 Home, because they had wiped out the “Windows old” files. So now I am learning what it is to do a fresh install of Windows 7 from scratch. I think, Hope, with both fingers crossed that I have good backups of my user files, that I can restore when I get through. Oh and the first thing that I put on both of those computers was downloaded file that Susan recommended to block Windows 10. I am not going through this again. Plus, my son gave me an older mac that he was no longer using. I am learning that system, and so far, I like it. I have a feeling that the next computer that I buy will be a mac and Microsoft can play with someone else.

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it’s just that those of us with more posts don’t have lives of our own

LOL, and we Lounger’s are thankful beyond measure to all who donate their wisdom and time to help.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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