Surprise! A new version of the Windows Update block-buster KB 4023057

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While scanning through the KBNew list, I bumped into an old f(r)iend, KB 4023057. Looks like it was re-issued on March 22 — along with about half a g
[See the full post at: Surprise! A new version of the Windows Update block-buster KB 4023057]

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And still the March monthly rollup for Windows 7 remains unchecked…

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Well, it’s not much of a surprise that Microsoft wouldn’t speak plainly when they are doing things like deliberately breaking your OS settings. Again, this stuff won’t stop so long as people continue to support it. This is the new Microsoft. They don’t care what you want or need; only what they want and need from you and don’t care if it breaks your system in the process.

I will never support this stuff nor am I likely to ever update Windows again for the simple reason that I don’t trust them anymore. At all. Not even a little bit. The relationship between Microsoft and it’s customers appears more adversarial every day. The new motto of Microsoft should be “You can do it your own way.. if it’s done just how I say!”

I ran Windows XP for nearly three years past EOL with zero problems and I will do the same prematurely with Windows 7.  I am not afraid of running unpatched. I am more afraid of running patched at this point. I have good habits and a solid security setup based on that of a security expert, so I’m good.

I think I’m done updating Windows for good and this “deceptively and intentionally break your settings with sneaky “updates” and lie about what they do” nonsense is why. I won’t support it.

6 users thanked author for this post.

Steve, Noel Carboni, JDeC, HiFlyer, Cybertooth

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Sessh wrote:

“You can do it your own way.. if it’s done just how I say!”

Freedom of choice is made for you, my friend.

I can understand your frustration (I share it), but if you harbor that much distrust of Microsoft (as you should), why stay on Windows at all? The way I look at it is that Windows is being discontinued in 2023.  I don’t consider any Windows 10 versions to be eligible to be “Windows” under my definition, so when 8.1 ends, so does Windows.  I don’t like it… I’m a creature of habit, and I’ve been using Windows for more than a quarter of a century, but it is what it is.  I began the migration to Linux not because of some lofty ideas about free software or anything like that, but because I wish to keep using PCs even after Windows fades into the sunset.  Sure, I can use a version of Windows past its end of security support, but for how long?

It won’t be too bad at first, but over time, it will become more and more insecure as more flaws are discovered.  Not only that, but the new programs that come out for Windows will support the versions of Windows that are in common use at that time, and while 7 will undoubtedly hang around a while after its sell-by expires, it will eventually fade. Even though a dedicated cadre of Win XP stalwarts still exists, more and more programs are dropping support for it as we go forward.  We’re also seeing programs that are dropping support for Vista (which only ended support recently, but has not been in common use by many people for years) as well as 32-bit builds of any Windows version.  If MS gets its way, we could even see an end to common programs being released as Win32 at all.

My migration to Linux, thus, is one of necessity.  While there is much to like about Linux, I would still have preferred to stay with Windows if it was a viable choice.  A lot of Linux fanboys are of the opinion that Windows was never any good, that it was always unstable and slow, that it has always been an insecure security disaster waiting to happen, that its memory management and other low-level features were always terrible, that no one ever actually LIKED Windows, but I don’t agree with any of that.  While I take issue with some design features (I don’t think the registry was a good idea), it was a solid OS with all of the NT-based versions prior to 8 (and including 8 with mods).  Unfortunately, things have changed, so I have to roll with it and keep going.

I installed Linux Mint as part of a dual-boot setup on both of my main PCs (one laptop, one desktop).  The plan was to get used to using Linux on the actual hardware (virtual machines aren’t the same) and to get all of the nitty-gritty stuff worked out (like getting all of the buttons and indicators on the laptop to work, like the wifi on/off and status LED) so that migration would just be a matter of doing it.

I can still use Windows any time I wish, and I may keep 8.1 past its sell-by too, but it won’t be as the sole/primary OS.  By doing it this way, I have years to migrate… to say I can take my time is understating it.  Even so, my time in Windows each week is dwindling faster than I expected, and it’s not because of some overarching plan to simulate Windows not existing or anything like that.  I simply am not finding any good reasons to use Windows most of the time. It was that realization that led me to buy a Windows 10 laptop that had too small of a hard drive for dual booting (or for Windows even as a single OS, really) with the intent of making it Linux only.  It works really well as a Linux laptop!

 

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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Cascadian, AlexEiffel, SueW, Noel Carboni, RamRod, Elly, johnf, Sessh

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There is not a thing in the world Microsoft can do to override my retaining control of my Windows installations. That they choose to try to do so just serves to increase my resolve.

I do most of my work on a decent workstation – top of the line 5 years ago, today not bad though no longer even close to cutting edge. The OS – Win 8.1 – is stable and functional, and for the foreseeable future it will likely be quite viable.

That said, because it’s becoming ancient by high tech standards, it will become incapable of supporting cutting-edge work. It’s only a matter of time. What was “fast” is now only “acceptable” and what was “big” is now only “sufficient”. In a few short years – or even months – it will be “insufficient”

In short, I’ll need a new one soon.

For me it boils down to this: I’m keeping Win 8.1 for now on this system – it just works too well to begin to consider changing it – so the question becomes: What OS will I want to run on my next system?

Dell sells brand new new high-end workstations with several OS options, one of which is Ubuntu Linux. Windows 10 Pro for Workstations with Downgrade Facilitation to Win 8.1 and 7 is also available.

I have put a significant amount of effort into determining whether I could actually get useful work out of Win 10, through setting it up and using it in virtual machines. I believe, based on having set up every version of Win 10 released up to now that I could actually be productive with it – probably just about the same as with Win 8.1, minus some time wasted to make sure I remain in control…

But of course as we all know past performance is no guarantee of future success. If I was forced to choose right now, because of familiarity I would probably go with Windows 10 Pro for Workstations, each new build to be adopted at some appropriate time after going to Semi-Annual Channel status.

However, luckily I am NOT being forced to choose, so with Win 10 1803 just over the horizon… Waiting Is.

-Noel

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AlexEiffel, Elly

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I think the whole Windows “10” ecosystem was (and continues to be) designed by lawyers, not by computer engineers. They word everything in “legalese”, confusing enough to throw everyone off the track, but legally accurate enough to protect themselves in case of a lawsuit.

If you are a lawyer, then maybe you can keep track of it all.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Microfix, Noel Carboni, johnf

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The vague Microsoft speak (some users, some devices, etc.) just means they totally lost control over each and everything (especially their source control systems) and absolutely have no clue themselves what will happen after an update has been installed. Each time they release an update, they keep fingers crossed hoping the sky is not falling. Sounds funny, but is the sad reality.

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Hello Woody, This patch would not be such a bad idea IF Microsoft were transparent about it. I can see some average user, having their updates turned off by accident, or a technician forgot to turn it back on, or even a Windows error that is hung not checking. This patch would get windows to look for updates and bring people up to date again. It is like a Windows-update update.

The problem is what about people that do not want updates on purpose? Those people, many here, will get upset if updates are restarted without permission.

This can easily be corrected by installing the update, then having a large clear message pop up and say  “Windows update is off or not checking, do you want Microsoft to correct this?”

People not knowing updates were off can say YES and others who know it is off and for a reason could say NO.

We had a friend (ohh love the f(r)iend usage) that had 1607 and it would not update. The computer was new. No one seemed to help her. She finally just “kept wiggling the mouse” all day and it finally updated to 1709. How could Microsoft not know an update was in progress? But she claims “wiggling the mouse all day” got her updates installed.

Microsoft is supposed to have a new feature in 1803 to change power settings to 2 hours to allow updates to happen. How many decades have we been getting updates and they just uncovered this issue?

This would be an acceptable patch IF some transparency were enacted.

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Bless your mouse-wiggling friend! I remember that, many years ago, my first-ever computer had a toolbar that would leap into a vertical position down the side of the screen, all by itself. It used to take a lot of mouse-wiggling to get it horizontal again.

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Hello Surfing Pensioner, Thank you for your reply! Yes I too remember the days that would happen to people’s computers, it “auto-magically” moved to a top or side. Sometimes getting it back down was an effort, other times it moved 1st try.

On the topic of mouse wiggles and maybe double clicking, I remember back in the XP days some people had troubles double clicking the mouse successfully every time. There are 2 registry keys for defining the areas size to double click in. doubleclickheight and doubleclickwidth. The default is 4. If one has troubles, try setting this number to 10 or 20. I used it on people’s computers that had shaky hands and they were happy.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc978661.aspx

Back to my friend, I still don’t know why their computer did not slowly gather data and then one day start the install process. Even if it went to sleep in 10 minutes, it had to be getting some upgrade data and be ready to start the install as she was using the computer checking emails or typing a letter. But that is what they said they did and it is odd Microsoft is now making power setting changes to override when updating.

Ohh and to our Norwegian friends, give us a clue as to why wiggling the mouse would be a great joke – although I can guess……..

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More info from abbodi86 about KB4023057 and other Windows 10 updates: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/another-complaint-about-kb-4023057/#post-163295.

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woody

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“But she claims “wiggling the mouse all day” got her updates installed.”

In Norway this would be a GREAT joke!

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HiFlyer

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There is another new(?) patch – KB 4094276. It might be worth looking at the description on that one as well.
PKCano posting anonymously

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Where?, it doesn’t exist except for the brief sentence in KBNew.

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Now the KB article is live, what you see in the KBNew listing is the whole summary.

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And the thing is, this monster KB4023057 update installs itself as soon as Windows Update sniffs out that your computer has the Windows Update Service running, which takes only a few seconds. Then, a few seconds after KB4023057 does its dastardly deed (finishes installing), up pops the Windows 10 Update Assistant and away you go on your way to getting updated to 1709. At least that’s been my experience.

I’m going to keep the Update Service turned off all the time and manually install the monthly updates by downloading them from the Microsoft Update Catalog for at least the next couple of months and see how the 1803 upgrades go before deciding whether to upgrade to 1709 or 1803. I’ve never manually installed all the monthly updates before, and so far it’s been a confusing mess figuring out which ones to install and which ones not to install, especially since MS re-issues and pulls patches two or three times while I’m waiting for Woody to flip the MS-DEFCON 3 switch.

Someone needs to “drain the swamp” at Microsoft, if you ask me!!!

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Ok, I’ve written here on several occasions about receiving many versions of 4023057. I’ve always said no with WUSHOWHIDE. Received it again Tuesday. Said no – again.

I’m continuing my experiment – staying on 1511. Nothing in particular about 1511 except that it was version 2 (don’t use anything from MS that is version 1.0). And I’m taking control of my machine and computing experience and upgrading on my schedule.

I do not turn of the Windows Update service. I use Spybot Antibeacon. I’m set to a metered connection.

Then at 1 a.m. Tuesday morning was I surprised to see a notice on my screen.

Then I noticed a new shortcut on my desktop. It lead to this new directory and new set of files – an upgrade payload from my former friends at MS.

Volume in drive C is Windows
Volume Serial Number is 2621-290C
Directory of C:Windows10Upgrade
03/19/2018  10:45 PM    <DIR>          .
03/19/2018  10:45 PM    <DIR>          ..
03/19/2018  10:44 PM       607,405,035 16299.125.171213-1220.rs3_release_svc_refresh_CLIENTCONSUMER_RET_X64FRE_en-us.esd
03/19/2018  10:21 PM    <DIR>          2052
03/02/2018  04:50 PM           462,512 appraiserxp.dll0
3/02/2018  04:50 PM           118,448 bootsect.exe
03/19/2018  10:45 PM                64 Configuration.ini0
3/02/2018  04:50 PM            61,616 cosquery.dll
03/02/2018  04:50 PM           329,904 DevInv.dll
03/19/2018  10:21 PM    <DIR>          dll1
03/19/2018  10:21 PM    <DIR>          dll2
03/02/2018  04:50 PM           210,096 downloader.dll
03/02/2018  04:50 PM           643,760 DW20.EXE
03/02/2018  04:50 PM            49,840 DWDCW20.DLL
03/02/2018  04:50 PM            45,744 DWTRIG20.EXE
11/21/2017  12:11 PM             9,810 EnableWiFiTracing.cmd
03/02/2018  04:50 PM            68,272 ESDHelper.dll
03/02/2018  04:50 PM            40,624 esdstub.dll
03/02/2018  04:50 PM           564,912 GatherOSState.EXE
03/02/2018  04:50 PM           545,456 GetCurrentDeploy.dll
03/02/2018  04:50 PM           145,072 GetCurrentOOBE.dll
03/02/2018  04:50 PM            73,392 GetCurrentRollback.EXE
03/02/2018  04:50 PM            27,312 HttpHelper.exe
03/19/2018  10:21 PM    <DIR>          resources
03/20/2018  01:42 AM           156,414 upgrader_default.log
03/02/2018  04:50 PM           557,232 wimgapi.dll
03/02/2018  04:50 PM           915,632 windlp.dll
03/02/2018  04:50 PM         1,858,224 Windows10UpgraderApp.exe
03/02/2018  04:50 PM            25,264 WinREBootApp32.exe
03/02/2018  04:50 PM            25,776 WinREBootApp64.exe
24 File(s)    614,340,411 bytes

6 Dir(s)  28,506,374,144 bytes free

The anticipated result of my experiment has come to pass – Microsoft attempted to force an upgrade to 1709 or worse on my machine.

SHAME!

I interrupted the attempted hijacking of my machine. Used WUSHOWHIDE to hide the update (sorry, in my anger I neglected to grab a screenshot of that and I don’t remember the KB number.)

I’ve now turned Windows Update Service OFF.

Oh, and MS added several tasks to Task Scheduler to rerun the Update Assistant every night at 1:00 a.m. until mission accomplished. The next evening, again at 1:00 a.m. the Upgrade Assistant tried again. Thank [goodness] I’m a night owl.

Tasks disabled.

So, no more updates. I can still manually get Defender updates.

I really don’t think I need any other updates.

So sad. So very sad.

RamRod.

4 users thanked author for this post.

Microfix, Sessh, MrBrian, Elly

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People are fond of recounting their experience controlling the older builds of Windows 10, and don’t get me wrong, sharing of experience is MUCH APPRECIATED. It is how we all learn beyond our own experiments and anecdotes.

However, always try to bear in mind that the techniques that worked for remaining in control over an older build quite often doesn’t work for remaining in control of a newer version. So you have to find all new ways to keep it from doing what they want. This is the really irritating part about Microsoft’s shifting policies.

The only reasonable conclusion in all this is for Microsoft to reverse course. The only likely conclusion is Microsoft continuing to double down, ultimately putting themselves out of the OS business – something I believe they’re striving for.

-Noel

5 users thanked author for this post.

RamRod, Cascadian, Sessh, Elly, dononline

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Ascaris wrote:

Freedom of choice is made for you, my friend.

I can understand your frustration (I share it), but if you harbor that much distrust of Microsoft (as you should), why stay on Windows at all?

….

I began the migration to Linux not because of some lofty ideas about free software or anything like that, but because I wish to keep using PCs even after Windows fades into the sunset. Sure, I can use a version of Windows past its end of security support, but for how long?

Oh, you know that song, do you? Great record! I thought that line was appropriate.

Why do I stay on Windows? I should be more clear in that I don’t trust MS to update or modify my system anymore. I am moving towards Linux which I started messing with in a VM months ago and I do plan on putting it on it’s own drive soon, so making the switch to Linux permanently is my goal. I have no problem with Windows 7 as I have it right now, but no more outside influence from MS is my point. I don’t have to worry about anything happening against my will if I don’t allow updates. There’s no reason for me to distrust Windows 7. I distrust MS going forward and when it comes to changing my system at all.

As for security flaws, they are all exploited over the internet and so having good security measures in place on that level is enough to make me confident in that regard. I’m even sure I could still run XP without issues. As you mentioned, there’s still people who do. I am just not all that afraid of that stuff especially being an ordinary home user. If I get infected with anything, it’s more than likely the direct result of something I did to let it in.

However, I know Windows 7 won’t be around forever and I have no illusions about that. I may still run it in a VM in Linux, but it seems that I will be able to do everything I do now in Linux. Heck, the programs I use the most in Windows either have Linux versions or can run in WINE without issues though I really wish I could get Movie Maker to work in Linux (Mint). Believe me, my future is in Linux and I am making the switch for many of the same reasons you are on top of my own.

However, I trust Windows 7 indefinitely for now. It is not plagued with the things 10 is plagued with and from a security perspective, I’ve taken it on myself to do that. With the rise in Linux malwares over the last year or so, it too carries it’s own set of security issues which are probably worse than that of Windows 7. Linux will be targeted and assaulted more and more as it tries to grow in popularity. It is yet to be seen if the devs can keep up with it all and I still have to learn how to get my security setup working on Linux adequately. So, I’m not in a major rush, but I’m getting there.

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Cascadian

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Openshot is in the Mint repositories, it’s a very good alternative to MM. Here’s an article about Linux Video Editors you may find interesting:

https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/top5-linux-video-editing-system-software/

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Sessh

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Sessh, I don’t know what the worry is about. Everyone wants to jump to another OS and they all have their own issues. Availability of programs, privacy concerns, forced upgrades,  loss of support, etc. As new OSs become popular more attacks will follow those.  I was told by my linux friends that being open source “everybody was looking out for everybody” and this is not true. 20 year old flaws have been found, so where was the other guy watching your back? Expecting you to do the same I guess. Android is a linux distro and the virus attacks are amazing. Worse than Windows.

If you are happy with your OS, then stay with it. If that is Windows 7 then great, keep it. Just make sure you have backups of your data, better still a clone of your drive.

Get hit with a virus? Who cares. Re-image the computer with your clone backup and keep on going.

As we have seen Firefox, Chrome and other programs will continue to support end of life OSs for several years. You probably will not have to  -worry-  about a newer OS for 7 years after Microsoft stops supporting it. As we all know, there are still some XPs in use and the browser world (firefox) just stopped supporting it recently.

So, use the OS that makes you happy, even if it reaches end of life, just have backups.

 

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RamRod, Sessh, Noel Carboni

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Indeed. I use Macrium and have it make full backups early AM every Friday and incrementals on the other six days, so I’m covered there. I will be on Linux by the end of the year if everything goes according to plan, though.

I don’t get the fuss either really. Thinking back, the only times I ever got malware on my system (and this was 10+ years ago) or had issues with my PC, it was because:

1. I downloaded and installed it accidentally as part of something else I was trying to install.

2. Malicious ads on websites (before I used an ad blocker)

3. Windows update screwed up the machine (blue screens, corrupted Windows Update (SoftwareDistribution folder etc..)

That’s pretty much it. I don’t use email for anything important and NEVER open anything from an unknown sender no matter how “enticing” the title is and I don’t store important information or anything like that on my computer.

The idea that using software beyond it’s EOL becomes some unsafe box of complexes is overrated. I leave my PC on 24/7 every day of the year even with XP past EOL by almost three years. With an ad blocker and not being stupid with installing things, whaddya know? No more issues. No more Windows Updates, either. I literally have fewer problems when not updating in a sample size of over five years. Even starting out on Windows 7, WU screwed up my computer with updates before I even had it for a full month which is what led me to this site in the first place. Seems to me they are a much bigger security issue especially now.

All that other stuff gets in through the browser. I have uBlock, I have uMatrix, I use a secure browser (Pale Moon), I have a custom DNS server with blacklists that update every night, I use EMET on my browsers and an application level firewall. I have Defender real-time protection, but don’t use AV software anymore because it doesn’t do anything. I ran MalwareBytes a couple days ago for the first time in months and not a single thing turned up. Not so much as a PuP. I also turn off maybe two dozen+ services that I don’t use to prevent them from being a security risk and have DCOM disabled with ports 137-139 and 445 closed manually.

Combined with good habits in regards to downloading and knowing when to back out of a questionable website, no issues. I much prefer to prevent things from getting in my system in the first place and even when I had an inferior layered protection strategy with XP, zero issues. Many others do it too even while exposed to the internet. I am just not afraid of that stuff.. at all. I have no reason to be and more reason to be afraid of WU these days than anything else.

So, that is my time tested strategy and I’m sticking to it. My computer is neither a hindrance or headache for me nor is it a danger to any other computers either. Nothing gets in.

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Elly, Noel Carboni

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Seesh, Well said!!  Hear Hear!

Noel from above posts, Agreed!

Thank you.

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It’s never a good idea to stay with an unpatched or an OS that’s not being supported with patches IF you’re going to expose it to the Internet.

Anti-Virus isn’t the solution, either. For Vista/XP/W2k, the odds are your Anti-Virus manufacturer isn’t updating that software to deal with malware, and it’s likely that the Signature files simply aren’t updated to deal with the newest threats. OS patches help against malware that works to turn your PC into a Zombie bot, or a Coin miner, or part of a DDOS stresser, a key logger that collects your SS number…the list goes on and on.

Not being updated puts not just your PC at risk, it also puts other users at risk (if you’re on the Internet). What Woody is doing with this site is trying to help users deal with the problems of updating; something that IS a problem since Microsoft is not just pushing Security Patches, but integrating things like Telemetry and what many consider unwanted features (Cortana, for example). If users had the choice of just security updates, or security plus features,  we probably don’t have this discussion.

No one is saying that Linux is perfect…it isn’t (can’t comment on a Mac since I don’t have one).  There are exploits in all OS’s. But Linux does not take the amount of work that Windows does now to maintain, nor does it force features down your throat. And exploits are dealt with quickly, for the most part…unlike Microsoft, which may or may not fix an exploit:

https://threatpost.com/microsoft-wont-fix-security-bypass-vulnerability-in-edge/127865/

https://threatpost.com/microsoft-programming-error-is-behind-dangerous-kernel-bug-researchers-claim/127858/

In my case, I use Linux because I need to get work done…I don’t spend anywhere near the time keeping it up to date that the Windows PC’s at work I support need. Likewise, if you don’t care about privacy, or loss of control, or updates that are done on MS time,  Windows 10 is easy to keep up.

Android is a mess because your phone manufacturers won’t pass updates to phones (effectively forcing you to upgrade every two years or less). If you have a Google phone, those are updated constantly. Also, people should only allow the Google Play store, instead of using other stores with cracked software.

So yeah, update your OS to the version you feel comfortable with, as long as it’s supported. You’re not safe otherwise.

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/3-reasons-running-latest-windows-security-patches-updates/

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AlexEiffel

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Thank you Johnf for your information. We have friends with linux and they have mentioned that updates have harmed their computers. It seems no matter what operating system one has problems can arise. I think it was Noel that said he has a friend that always updates asap, and another person that never updates. Both people have no issues with their computers. I have a friend that never updates his phone. He said he did once and it did not run the same and a program acted differently and made him mad. So he never updates. He does not have any viruses. Other good people here, some MVPs, have mentioned not updating because their operating system had reached end of life.  They and I have no viruses and are not spreading any either. But like Sessh said, if you are cautious and have proper layered protection, it works safely.  Thank you again.

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@ anonymous #178372

I am running an up-to-date Linux Mint 17.3 with kernel 3.13LTS since about 2 years ago without any major problem from the updates or virus infection. I mostly install only Level 1 to 3 updates, ie not Level 4 to 5 updates. I have a backup kernel and Timeshift snapshot or restore point for recovery against buggy updates. Last resort is a clean reinstall if my computer is borked by updates or virus-infected.

P S – I have Win 7 as a secondary OS.

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On my Windows 10 v1709 virtual machine, KB4023057 isn’t listed as a Windows update. Instead, it’s listed twice in “Apps & Features” as “Update for Windows 10 for x64-based Systems (KB4023057)” and also “Windows Setup Remediations (x64) (KB4023057)”. I did not explicitly install either of these.

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It’s an MSI package

the other entry “setup remediation” belongs to Sdbinst that installs WindowsSetupIgnoreCompatWarningsCustom.sdb which is ment to tell upgrade setup to ignore compatibility warnings
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/planning/using-the-sdbinstexe-command-line-tool

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MrBrian

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Microsoft published a method to block execution of KB4023057 at USB device drivers are removed unexpectedly after Windows 10 is updated.

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CyGuy, abbodi86

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