“Stuttering” glitch on a brand-new PC

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LANGALIST “Stuttering” glitch on a brand-new PC By Fred Langa A subscriber’s new system experiences erratic mouse and touchpad problems almost from th
[See the full post at: “Stuttering” glitch on a brand-new PC]

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abbodi86, TJ

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Good advice Fred and hopefully it will help the person with their problems. BUT, seriously? This is an MS device running MS software and MS peripherals and they can’t get it right? This kind of problem has simply become way too common with MS products. If they can’t get their own stuff working reliably what hope is there for people using third party hardware. (Actually, in everyday practice, it seems that third party stuff is more likely to work reliably than their own stuff, but that says heaps in itself.)

I now run Windows in a VM on MacOS with far more reliability than I could ever get it to run on an SP4. MS lost me when they couldn’t even upgrade their own devices to Win 10 2004  (devices that were then about 3 years old)!

 

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Harv, Microfix, rc primak

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Thanks for revealing the “Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power” undo-option, Fred. Didn’t know that one.

Hope that will stop my pc from putting my [connected via monitor-hub] mouse to sleep.

MintDE is my daily driver now. Old friend Win10 keeps spinning in the background

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Re. CCleaner Smart Cleaning:

I am not a fan of anything preset, automatic or Starts With Windows. As with all third-party utilities, I check for piggybacks, silent installs, Startups and Automatic Default settings first.

CCleaner also installs AVG Antivirus silently, and installs a “CCleaner Browser” hijacker automatically, silently and irreversibly. Uninstalling these “extra features” can take down the whole Windows installation, or at least the Edge and Chrome and Firefox browsers. All of these actions are silent (no warnings, no opt-outs) and on by default.

If you must use third party system utilities, keep a good backup and Geek or Revo Uninstaller and the relevant antivirus removal tools handy at all times!

CCleaner is by far not alone in being aggressive in pushing unwanted actions and features onto unsuspecting users.

-- rc primak

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Harv, grandma78633, Microfix

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Saw something recently commenting on how CCleaner had changed ownership and become aggressive with 3rd party utilities, startup, etc. They no longer recommended it and in fact suggested its removal. I see similar articles on HowToGeek, etc. Do we want to trust software with our system when it behaves like this? They suggested Glary Utilities.

 

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grandma78633

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[rc primak]

Since Registry cleaning is no longer recommended by most PC experts, and Windows 10 can clean most temp files, and since temp files just regenerate themselves every time you use your PC, I see less and less evidence that programs like CCleaner and Glary Utilities (their cleaning modules) do anything except generate excessive disk reads and writes.

This is a serious consideration on an SSD, as they have only a limited number of writes before they stop working.  Obsessive browser cleaning can also generated excessive disk reads and writes.

There is no stability or performance benefit on a modern PC to using cleaning products.

-- rc primak

• This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by rc primak.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by rc primak.

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[rc primak]

I made a mistake in post #2347031.

CCleaner is now owned by the makers of Avast, which does make AVG. But it is Avast which is installed silently by CCleaner, possibly if you forget to look really, really hard for the opt-in checkbox and uncheck it when updating CCleaner. Possibly not even that much warning.

Avast has its own uninstaller, which has to be run in Windows Safe Mode. And of course, everyone knows how to get Windows 10 into Safe Mode, right? 🙄

-- rc primak

• This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by rc primak.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by rc primak.

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This is not confined to Windows. I am an admin for many small businesses in the area, and I use both Macs and Windows 10. I recently bought a MacBook Air M1 and I cannot get my Microsoft bluetooth mouse to connect for any length of time. The same mouse is also sometime problematic with Windows. Old Apple Mouse? Seems to work fine. I have been very disappointed in Microsoft mice as they tend to be flakey, though I think it is only the cheap manufacturing of the times we live in. Also, I’m unconvinced that there may be differences in the specs of the bluetooth devices.

I have had stuttering mouse problems with Windows 10 as well, though the latest H2 update seems to have ended them. Why? Who knows.

Any hardware experts that could confirm my beliefs?

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You can Opt Out from those addons during the Installation of Ccleaner. I don’t like bundled software either.

Then in Options > Settings, Uncheck starting automatically. Uncheck “Health Check” and check “Custom Clean” when opening Ccleaner.

Been using it from Windows 10 1703 through 20H2, before that on XP and it never caused a problem.
Here is a view on it by Microsoft.
Win32/PiriformBundler optouts
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/threats/malware-encyclopedia-description?Name=PUA%3AWin32%2FPiriformBundler
then click on “Technical Information” for particulars.

Piriform’s Speccy, recommended in this forum, also has an optOut from Google Chrome.

Ccleaner has the optouts to not include unwanted apps, including AVG. It would be better to have to opt in but this is the commercial, info-sharing, spying, push-to-buy world we’re in and the internet has magnified that. I like Ccleaner functions over its competitors, or doing all that manually. I buy a copy of CC Pro, and other apps like Macrium and Revo, occasionally to support their work.

Ccleaner Pro v5.77.

Win10 Pro 20H2,backups with Macrium Reflect home edition

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Use ccPortable instead. No malware, no unwanted apps, no hacked software…

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WSCape Sand, Charlie, Volkstoy

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Thanks.

https://www.kaspersky.com/resource-center/threats/ccleaner-malware
…This payload targeted approximately 20 of the largest tech companies, including Google, Microsoft, Cisco, and Intel, and infected 40 computers.

Re Ccleaner.

Ccleaner was hacked

years ago

, purportedly by China’s Axiom group. The list of companies and governments not hacked is a short one. Do you refuse to use Cisco, MS, Intel, Samsung and the other companies listed in the full report?

I’ve scanned with MBAM, TrendMicro, Superantispyware, McAfee, WinDefender, Sophos and Norton ad naseum many times the last few years and come up clean with CCleaner installed. The malware would not have escaped detection unless all those were infected to ignore it. Is this a new conspiracy theory?

I’ll keep using CC until fresh evidence comes around, not the old news.

Win10 Pro 20H2,backups with Macrium Reflect home edition

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rexr wrote:

I’ve scanned with MBAM, TrendMicro, Superantispyware, McAfee, WinDefender, Sophos and Norton ad naseum many times the last few years and come up clean with CCleaner installed. The malware would not have escaped detection unless all those were infected to ignore it. Is this a new conspiracy theory?

Hi rexr:

I was one of the “standard” CCleaner Free v5.33.6162 users with a 32-bit OS who downloaded the infected CCleaner installer from their official builds page at https://www.ccleaner.com/ccleaner/builds when it was released on 15-Aug-2017, and I later found traces of the first stage of the payload (Trojan.Floxif) in my Windows registry.  Only larger corporations who were targeted in this attack received the second (and more damaging) part of the payload once their computers were infected.

Both Norton Security and Malwarebytes initially failed to detect this Floxif trojan on my system because Avast/Piriform was unaware the v5.33.6162 installers they had posted on their update servers in August 2017 were infected.  Avast/Piriform gave the SHA256 hash (digital fingerprint) of  these infected installers to various antivirus companies for whitelisting, essentially telling all the antivirus companies their v5.33.6162 installers were “safe” when they were actually infected. Upgrading to v5.34.6207 (rel.12-Sep-2017) removed the infected 32-bit CCleaner.exe executable but stray registry entries for the Floxif trojan were not detected on my system by Norton Security or Malwarebytes until around 19-Sep-2017 when these companies were officially notified by Avast/Piriform and their malware definition databases were finally updated.  See my 18-Sep-2017 thread Traces of Floxif Malware From Infected CCleaner v5.33 Installer in the CCleaner forum as well as the image I posted 19-Sep-2027 post in New CCleaner # 5.34.6207 in the Norton forum.

I now use the portable version of CCleaner Free from https://www.ccleaner.com/ccleaner/builds and run it from a USB thumb drive instead of using the “standard” installer and installing CCleaner on my hard drive.
————-
64-bit Win 10 Pro v2004 build 19041.804 * Windows Defender v4.18.2102.3 * Malwarebytes Free v4.3.0.98-1.0.1173 * CCleaner Free Portable v5.77.8521

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rexr

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Thanks Imacri, i had a similar experience in 2017. After uninstalling the bad 5.33.x installer version, and cleaning out the registry of Floxif per instructions, i installed their clean update. Checked the registry again and Floxif hasn’t reappeared. Since it was years ago, subsequent scans with all those listed updated detectors have been clean, as various new malwares have targeted us. There’s a special place in hades for bad hackers.

Win10 Pro 20H2,backups with Macrium Reflect home edition

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I am with you brother.   I always check out options and settings before using -let alone adopting- new programs into my computer family.  And, I too have been using Ccleaner for many years now -never stopped even when this site and others recommended because I have had no problems and there really is not any effective substitute.  I have used it with all systems from Windows 98 on and currently have it active on four systems.

All that having been said, the comment about new ownership is disturbing as I have found that new ownership of old established products (who evidently paid too much for their new toy) try to exploit their product in ways that make them unusable for their customers. Soooo,  I will be watching for signs of deterioration in Ccleaner from now on.

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anonymous wrote:

All that having been said, the comment about new ownership is disturbing as I have found that new ownership of old established products (who evidently paid too much for their new toy) try to exploit their product in ways that make them unusable for their customers. Soooo,  I will be watching for signs of deterioration in Ccleaner from now on.

The new ownership was nearly four years ago: Welcome Piriform to Avast!

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I wish it were so easy!

This appears to be an extremely common problem on Windows 10. I have 3 Windows 10 systems and not one of them works satisfactorily. I refer you to a post I made to this forum in May last year:-

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/windows-10-freezes-on-two-different-systems/

An obvious manifestation of the problem is stutter in audio. The worst case of the  stutter is when the system actually freezes. It appears to be associated with network traffic. Discussion in various forums demonstrate how widespread the problem is and I have not found anyone who has actually managed to solve the problem.

After a while, you learn to live with it!

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Hey Fred, I’ve had my share of mouse/touchpad stutters and freezes, and the solution was ALWAYS the video card driver of all things! Dropping down to the “Microsoft Basic Display Adapter” usually fixes the problem and is a very simple thing to try. Of course you’ll have to live with the lower resolution until a better driver is released, but on a brand new PC? I’d return that and get a different brand.

Hope this helps..

Ray!

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Ascaris

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anonymous wrote:

but on a brand new PC? I’d return that and get a different brand.

Just what I was thinking. No need to put up with things on brand new gear. It may well be something that can be solved with some poking around, but you paid for a brand new unit that is supposed to perform well out of the box. Let someone else deal with the troubleshooting… you paid for the new computer experience!

If it were me, I’d first search the model number of the PC on the web, and maybe also the build number of Windows 10, and see if there are others having the same experience. It could be that this is a characteristic of a given model, in which case exchanging it won’t help… so in that case you’d have to get something different, which hopefully won’t be too much trouble, depending on how flexible the retailer is on these issues.

If there are no reports of other people having the same issue, perhaps then it is something that might be fixed by exchanging for the same model.

If it were me, I’d also boot a Linux live USB and see if you witness the same thing there. If so, it might well be a hardware issue, since the drivers and OS code are completely different. A firmware update might help if there is one available, but if not, I’d just suggest to take it back.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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On the Freeze issue, this came up for me whenever I tried to use Copy/ Paste. Turned out an older version of MS Office was monitoring that function (even when not open) and would freeze the computer every time for about 90 seconds. Took awhile to figure that one out.

The MS solution? Buy an upgrade. That’s when I moved to another suite. Have never looked back.

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In 2011, with a new Windows 7 HP 6460b laptop, I had a problem like this, most notably with audio playback stuttering.  The cause turned out to be delayed procedure calls caused by HP’s battery monitor tool (HP Power Assistant, version 2.0.5.1), which was bloatware.  When I uninstalled HPPA, the problem went away.

I found two freeware tools that would display / diagnose the problem:

• DPC Latency Checker
• LatencyMon

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That’s an interesting comment regarding older versions of MS Office. I have MS Office 2003 and it is one of the first things I install because I have a document that gives details of all the tweaks I make to get the environment how I want it and the problem did manifest itself very early in the set up procedure.

I had considered it as a possibility, so I uninstalled it on the machine I use as my media server, but that still gives me problems.

 

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I stopped using CCleaner when they were acquired by Avast and then started pulling pranks such as silently adding telemetry data collection, pushing ads, etc…  and I haven’t noticed any performance degradation or any adverse effects.

CCleaner might have been useful in the days of limited hard disk space, but nowadays, it is just bloatware and a false sense of optimization.

 

 

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NaNoNyMouse

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Welcome to Linux!  Cursor stuttering actually is a fairly common problem with many distros and low powered machines with not so hot touchpads.

With a new computer, especially with an old fashioned (tee hee) mechanical hard drive, indexing is a prime candidate for stuttering.  Turn off indexing file contents or stuttering may never end.

Some other possibilities.  Data scraping by the OS and OEM go on for quite a while at first, then abate somewhat.  Some of this is from optimizing, some from typical data collection subterfuge, etc.  Old drivers can be a problem; it’s rare you purchase a machine with everything up to date since drivers change sporadically.

That’s ignoring software that just plain doesn’t work correctly.

Sometimes it’s a good idea to leave a newly installed OS or new machine on for a few hours with no use for everything to get up to speed.

And, NO, I would never consider CCleaner since Piriform turned it into a data scraper that wouldn’t work offline, now owned by Avast, a data mining company.  They aren’t?  Uh, yeah, go to their corporate site; at least they’re honest about it.

If you take the time to learn where everything is in Windows, CCleaner like utilities are useless anyway, unless you like reinstalling Windows.  Shadow copies are your friend!

🙂

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[Ascaris]

anonymous wrote:

Welcome to Linux! Cursor stuttering actually is a fairly common problem with many distros and low powered machines with not so hot touchpads.

When a system comes with an OS preinstalled, little things like this shouldn’t happen. The tweaks that may be necessary to get things working properly should already be done by the OEM, perhaps as part of those mythic driver tweaks that are the reason we’re advised to get the drivers from the OEM, but that seldom actually exist. Preinstalled Windows is certainly the most common installation type, so this kind of thing should not happen unless either the OEM or Microsoft messed something up.

If you were talking about one of the few machines that come with Linux preinstalled, I’d expect those to be nice right out of the box too. I’ve never actually used one of these, though! I’d be more likely to give Linux installed after-the-fact the benefit of the doubt, since (like box stock Windows) it is not customized for any one machine, and tries to cover them all.

Fortunately, I’ve never experienced any stuttering in Linux. I’ve installed it on a number of low-spec laptops, from my 2005ish single core AMD Turion laptop to my 2008 Asus F8Sn (Core 2 Duo) to my 2017ish Dell Inspiron 11 (a very low end machine, cost $180 new and came with non-removable 32GB eMMC storage and no ability to upgrade) and my also 2017ish Acer Swift 1 113-31. The Turion and Core 2 Duo laptops were not low-spec in their day, but they have modern distros on them now, and they certainly qualify as low spec by modern standards.

The first three machines listed all have Synaptics touchpads that are masquerading as PS/2 mice. The first two have old-style touchpads with buttons and no multitouch, while the Inspiron’s is a multitouch clickpad. The Swift has an Elan “precision” multitouch clickpad.

They all work well in Linux, and the first two worked nicely in Windows too (XP in the case of the Turion, XP/Vista/7/8.1 in the case of the Core 2 Duo). Since they were non-precision touchpads, I would expect them to be the same in Windows 10 also.

I didn’t have Windows 10 on the Inspiron 11 long enough to remember how it was, and while Windows is still installed on the Swift, it’s been so long that I don’t remember there either. I don’t remember any issues offhand.

My not low-spec Dell G3, though, feels fine in Linux, but in Windows 10, has a really annoying dead zone where it ignores movements until it exceeds a certain number of pixels, presumably. It’s a coupe of millimeters of movement while the pointer just does nothing, even though pointer sensitivity is high. It’s a precision touchpad, so there is no Synaptics driver Control Panel item (I have no idea where it would be now, with Control Panel being deprecated in favor of the inferior Settings) where I might be able to change the setting for that dead zone, and MS doesn’t offer the setting in the UI. It might be somewhere in the registry, but I find it easier to simply shut down and reboot into Neon.

I’d rather have the old setup with the Synaptics driver that had a ton of settings to mess with rather than just whatever Microsoft wants to offer in their minimalistic Settings. That very same precision touchpad in KDE Neon (or other Plasma-based distros) has a setting for the exact thing that is wrong with it in Windows (called “noise cancellation” in the settings). With the synaptics driver, at least (the newer libinput driver that is supposed to replace it is just junk IMO).

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

• This reply was modified 4 years ago by Ascaris.

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One thing that struck me was, why is there NO mention of the telemetry ping to Avast/piriform in the article just after running ccleaner?
There are newbies all the time who do not know of this and have a right to be informed with a choice to either do nothing or take evasive action.

Should anyone wish to circumvent the data/telemetry ping to avast/piriform:
Windows Firewall: Put a firewall (program) outgoing block ruleset on the ccleaner executable.
3rd party Firewalls: as above, and you should know what to do 😉

If debian is good enough for NASA...

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Volkstoy

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That’s an easy fix, don’t run ccleaner. It’s not required anyway.

cheers, Paul

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I run an old version CCleaner Portable with all the in- and outgoing traffic blocked by firewall.
I use it (only) to really empty all browser left-overs, because those in-browser cleaners never throw everything away. I don’t use it for ‘cleaning’ the registry and such.
Works for me.

MintDE is my daily driver now. Old friend Win10 keeps spinning in the background

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WSCape Sand, Microfix, SkipH

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Another problem with CCleaner is when it removes cookies it takes them all including good needed cookies that allow you to access your many sites without needing to reenter ID’s and passwords each time. That issue itself has forced me to remove CCleaner.

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CCleaner allows you to specify which cookies you want to keep.  See Options|Cookies.

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Charlie, WSCape Sand, 17Soldiers

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Thanks for the info… I have now setup the cookies I want.

Did not know that option was available – I think CCleaner should  make that option known to new users.

Thanks again!

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I think you shouldn’t use CCleaner, it doesn’t do anything you can’t do by other means and if you are not careful it can make a mess.

cheers, Paul

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[NaNoNyMouse]

One further very good reason for not using CCleaner is that it’s owned by Avast, who only quite recently were caught red-handed selling user data to corporate clients such as Google

I used to own, and use, both Avast AV and CCleaner. Wouldn’t touch either of them with the proverbial barge-pole nowadays

• This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by NaNoNyMouse.

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CCleaner is malware, myriad euphemisms for data collection software nothwithstanding, it’s still malware.  It’s designed to collect your data so Avast can sell it; began with Piriform, who was successful, so Avast bought them.  Always wondered why a company would be named after a word that means pear shaped; yeah, I know the techy history of the word but it’s still stupid. 🙂

Long ago and I really mean that, CCleaner was OK although it’s always been capable of eventually causing the need for an OS reinstall.  It lists a number of “cookies” I have never been able to find on any machine that seem to be a false spyware flag of every cookie collected, deleted or not,  designed to keep you using the program.  These days, I don’t think CCleaner even works unless you’re online.  It’s not honest software.

Go to Avast’s corporate website; in no way do they hide the fact that a big portion of their revenue is from data collection.  At least they’re honest and easy to avoid.

If you really think a Cleaner Upper Utility is necessary and you’re still using a mechanical hard drive, switch to a SSD and suddenly “slow” will no longer be in mind.

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I’m at a loss to understand how CCleaner Portable collects data… help me out here.

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Try reading #2347570

Using the Windows firewall? see this How to Geek article

If debian is good enough for NASA...

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WSCape Sand wrote:

I’m at a loss to understand how CCleaner Portable collects data… help me out here.

It doesn’t matter if an app is installed or portable in order for the app to collect privacy data as long as you are connected to the Internet.

The data we collect within CCleaner, why we collect it, and what it’s used for

https://www.ccleaner.com/about/data-factsheet

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[rc primak]

rc primak wrote:

Since Registry cleaning is no longer recommended by most PC experts, and Windows 10 can clean most temp files, and since temp files just regenerate themselves every time you use your PC, I see less and less evidence that programs like CCleaner and Glary Utilities (their cleaning modules) do anything except generate excessive disk reads and writes.

This is a serious consideration on an SSD, as they have only a limited number of writes before they stop working.  Obsessive browser cleaning can also generated excessive disk reads and writes.

There is no stability or performance benefit on a modern PC to using cleaning products.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by rc primak.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by rc primak.

Most SSD’s can be be totally overwritten hundreds of times before any of the flash memory cells wear out.

Examples:

Intel 80GB SSD from 10 years ago. Used daily for lots of document writing, saving, editing. Has 88% life remaining.

Sandisk Extreme Pro 1TB SSD from 8 years ago. Used daily for internet (lots of temp files written), document writing (for blogging), gaming, photo editing, video editing, etc. Has 92% life remaining.

WD Blue 3D 500GB SSD from 2 years ago. Lots and lots of movies downloaded, viewed, deleted; rinse and repeat. Has 96% life remaining. Endurance rating for this capacity is 200 TeraBytes Written (TBW). That equals filling up the 500GB of space 400 times.

Most new NVMe SSD’s will last two or three times longer than the SATA drives mentioned above.

Regarding reliability, we had one very early Kingston V200 64GB SSD fail after 18 months of light use. They replaced it with a new V200+ model which still runs on an older PC. The remaining dozen or so SSD’s we have (4 different brands) over the last 10 years are all totally reliable.

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Alex5723, WSCape Sand

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And the real world data test of SSDs.
The SSD Endurance Experiment: Two freaking petabytes

cheers, Paul

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Yes, that endurance test is incredible. Essentially, we could use and then replace 2 or 3 PCs, transferring the SSD from machine to machine over the years and still not wear out the SSD.

One model i didn’t mention in my earlier post is a Samsung 840 Evo (the basic one, not the Pro model). We had it in a Lenovo laptop from April of 2014 until January of 2021, and it performed flawlessly. After a few years of running Windows Media Center and recording 2 or 3 hours of TV programs every day, watching, then deleting, we had accumulated a lot of photos and home video, thus nearly filling the drive. We cloned it onto a WD Blue 3D 500Gb capacity SSD which also works fine. The Samsung 840 Evo is tucked away in a box as a failsafe. Eventually, after doing a secure erase, i’ll use it to refurbish someone’s older PC or laptop.

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WSstarvinmarvin wrote:

after doing a secure erase, i’ll use it to refurbish someone’s older PC

You don’t need to secure erase an SSD if TRIM is working in your OS. When you erase the data, TRIM will erase the SSD cells so they are ready to be written to again. All you need to do is leave the SSD alone for a few minutes for TRIM to kick in.

cheers, Paul

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Fred Langa wrote:

Older hardware was built to earlier power-saving standards such as Win7’s obsolete Connected Standby or Win8’s now-superseded InstantGo; Win10 uses a new standard called Modern Standby.

And who made previous standard obsolete? How long will it take before “Modern Standby” becomes obsolete? Who is creating this absolute mish-mash? The answer is simple.

Dell Latitude 3420, Intel Core i7 @ 2.8 GHz, 16GB RAM, W10 22H2 Enterprise

HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

PRUSA i3 MK3S+

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Paul T wrote:

WSstarvinmarvin wrote:

after doing a secure erase, i’ll use it to refurbish someone’s older PC

You don’t need to secure erase an SSD if TRIM is working in your OS. When you erase the data, TRIM will erase the SSD cells so they are ready to be written to again. All you need to do is leave the SSD alone for a few minutes for TRIM to kick in.

cheers, Paul

In this case the SSD was removed from the laptop with the OS and all data intact. Then it was put away in a box as a backup in case the replacement SSD failed catastrophically.

If it’s to be used elsewhere I could connect it as a secondary drive, delete everything and go make a cup of tea while waiting for Trim to erase the data. Alternatively, I could connect it and do a Secure Erase which takes about 3 seconds to complete on a 240GB SSD. Third option is to trust the Windows installer to reformat/erase the drive prior to installing a fresh version of the OS. Personally, I just like doing the Secure Erase command. It makes me feel omnipotent. Kneel before me, you obsolete data, and accept your fate ….

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