silent reaction with all respect and little joke

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Hello,
I will rather start new topic here, than cause some kind of problems to Mr. Woody.
I wanted to say, that according to the latest trend, terms blacklist and whitelist are not valid anymore. As Woody wrote, its more about empathy, which is correct but where this will end?
https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/unconscious-bias-and-hiring/#post-2279811

Delete my, account, ban me or whatever you want, but America went really crazy about this and forbidding words like whitelist or blacklist is ridiculous. Can we make toilet paper in rainbow colors so nobody is offended?
See? These are just words and ANYBODY can understand them as he wants.

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Wow, and you still exist here. This must be priviledged in the  shades of 50colors of gray and the correctness

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HiFlyer, OscarCP

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Words are not forbidden, people are thinking about how they use them.
People should always think about how they use words, thoughts and deeds. Nothing bad about that.

cheers, Paul

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HiFlyer, Myst, doriel, woody

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I understand now and I will think about it too now. I wont use these words neither.
But to be honest, I never thought about using words like these in the dishonest way. I never used that to hurt somebody. And I think most people in IT understands this issue same as I do.

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DriftyDonN

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Doriel

I agree that nearly everyone thinks of those word as you and I do. But it’s really not about us. It’s more of a death by a thousand cuts issue. If the word black is always used to indicate something negative or bad, humans internalize that. So it’s not about this one word that we’ve all used for so long. We’re just a speck and an easy one to clean up.

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Myst, woody

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Precisely. Well said!

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Hmm Guess I just think different…

Black for me is absence of something, like at night the absence of the colors of light makes everything black.

White is the abundance of something, again like light, the abundance of all colors make white light, day light…

So a black list on a firewall would be the absence of these items, and a white list is the inclusive of these items…

This is how the laws of nature work… is nature racist?

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If the word black is always used to indicate something negative or bad, humans internalize that.

Then Black (which no one is) is a poor choice for self reference to begin with. Same thing for White (which no one is).

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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HiFlyer, OscarCP

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I grew up in a small town that wasn’t very politically correct. Un-pc jokes would fly around but people didn’t take them serious until someone they knew was offended and explained why they were offended. Most of it was just stupid banter but when some complained over “innocent” jokes other pushed back with more c*** bordering on racism. Those of us in the middle felt both sides were overreacting.

Recently various animated shows decided to not have white voice actors play characters of colour. A voice actor may play men, women, and children of all ethnic groups. They have the vocal skill to create the illusion of a real person. Now the producers have to find “appropriate” voice actors. Producers have money and can do that but it seems over kill. These are cartoon characters.

So what’s next? Will comic book artists and writers have to stop dealing with characters of other races or genders? Will authors like Stephen King be ostracized if he writes from the viewpoint of a woman or child? Where does it stop?

—

If you want to change words change them but be aware that your replacements may get challenged too. Years ago I worked in retail and had to price clothing and the multitude of pins were annoying and i would swear under my breath until I was admonished. I replaced s**t with shazbot but my coworkers knew what I meant so they would still react.

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You could just use Ow! No-one will be offended then.

cheers, Paul

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Myst

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I don’t believe that censorship by shaming certain usage of words is a good way to improve the way we live together in our societies. This aspect of political correctness confuses words with deeds by giving both an equivalent operational valence. It allows bigoted people to feel good and superior for doing nothing particularly helpful. Or taking any true personal risks in defense of what they declame support for by attempting to negate to others their right to do or say things that are perfectly acceptable. It is the political equivalent of having a dirty mind. Its practitioners remind one of the allegory of the mice that believe that their squeaking makes them equal to roaring lions. It is also a way for the pusillanimous to take cover from such attacks, hypocritically, because they know that what they seem to defend is a falsehood masquerading as righteousness.

We have too much righteousness and not enough action to truly confront the evils of our time. For this reason I admire those who speak truth without mincing words, such as Greta Thunberg, the climate change activist. Calling a spade a spade is not an attempt to belittle those who shovel dirt, but a way to keep things in their right perspective. And looking for those things that can’t possibly matter to make a mountain of evil out of them to put down imaginary offenders is, quite frankly, a waste of time that won’t move as any closer to a world without glaring inequalities, tragically wasteful wars, or even advance the essential practice of having a civilized and informed discourse on things that matter.

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DriftyDonN, HiFlyer, doriel, wavy

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I will say the blacklist / whitelist ‘problem’ is a stretch … but the old saying “Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me” is not true by any stretch of the imagination. Having been a victim of bullying I know this. Having read Korzybski’s Science and Sanity in high school I know words and how we use them do influence our world view and actions. However I ain’t ever gonna be PC just for the sake of PC.

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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HiFlyer

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I’m a red haired “white” person who got called things like Reds, & Carrot Top.  I never took offense.  I was also very skinny when I was a teenager (before being skinny was considered cool) and got called “Beanpole”, or “Stringbean”.  I guess in addition to being “white”, my skin is also thick.  There are too many Rumplethinskins in the world today.

Being 20 something in the 70's was so much better than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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samak, HiFlyer, doriel, OscarCP

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Thank you. I was abused too, when I was little child. Living on a suburb in czechia was not easy by any means.
There were poeple, that were offensive all the time and sometimes they beat up me badly. And you know what? I stood up and fought for myself. I didnt blame other people. I learned, that the best way is to face my fears.
I learned a lot by fighting for myself. Not blaming others. And this is the point, that I am trying to stress.
It seems to me, that some people blame others for where they are, but in fact, everybody needs to start by cleaning his own house.
Its crucial need, that racism will be banished! But always remember..

I HAVE ALWAYS believed that each man makes his own happiness and is responsible for his own problems.
– Ray Kroc

Using words “whitelist” or “blackmail” wont change anything.

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[OscarCP]

Most of us get bullied, sometime, and some of us learn to stand up for ourselves. I was and I did. PC, as I see it, is a form of bulling people into acquiescing with the often arbitrary dictates of a diffuse minority whose members are hard to pin down and frequently impossible to face in person. Not all attempts to eliminate things because they are too politically charged are wrong or unnecessary: I believe for example, that having a monument to Jefferson Davis prominently placed in a major city of the United States of America was always a really bad idea. So removing it and maybe later carting it off to some museum so people may learn about it and how it happened to be erected in the first place, is not PC, just plain common sense finally breaking out.

For my part, I am in the fortunate position where I am rarely subject to PC dictates and then this is more of a nuisance than of a real problem. But, for others I know, it has become an unwelcome part of their daily lives. And there seems to be more more of it around, year after year.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by OscarCP.

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OscarCP wrote:

For my part, I am in the fortunate position where I am rarely subject to PC dictates and then this is more of a nuisance than of a real problem. But, for others I know, it has become an unwelcome part of their daily lives. And there seems to be more more of it around, year after year.

I am afraid that you are so right, and with a growing population and disproportional use of wealth and resources these problems will get bigger and bigger since people are not respecting one another and leave some hope to build on for generations to come.

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Charlie, doriel

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Since whitelist and blacklist are not racist terms, I shall continue to use them. Should someone misinterpret that as racism, that is their problem not mine. This nonsense will never stop if you give in to it.

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