Should I upgrade my Win7 machine to IE 11?

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Just got a good question from reader AR: Season’s Greetings to You & Yours! I presently have IE9 installed on my Windows7 Home Premium desktop PC.
[See the full post at: Should I upgrade my Win7 machine to IE 11?]

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I am a regular user of IE11 although I also use Firefox, Chrome and Edge – this is my preferred order. There are good reasons to use IE, one of the strong cases being the use of this browser in enterprise, where the server products are based on Microsoft products and is is a requirement for best compatibility to use IE. Saying that, IE11 is the least enterprise compatible among its peers, due to moving towards better internet standards compatibility and in particular by moving away from identifying itself as IE unless configured in one of the compatibility modes. Why is it so? Maybe running away from a well-deserved reputation and hiding its relation to previous versions?
IE11 is perfectly usable as an alternative to the other browsers although as I mentioned in an older post on this forum, it is far too complex to configure optimally and this is where the role of a good system administrator is in an enterprise. There is also the issue of the browser being targeted by malware although a good practice of patching should mitigate the issue. For those 2 reasons alone, Woody’s recommendation to use an alternative browser is very useful.
In relation to removing IE from Windows, there is no reliable way to do it, however Microsoft being forced by external factors, created the illusion to be able to do it by hiding it. It is still there well and alive even after hiding.
This post is meant only to complete Woody’s comments with few more details, otherwise the recommendations are very accurate and good practice to follow.
Being at the subject of browsers, the practice of forced updates has been long implemented by Google and more recently by Firefox, so nothing new about Windows 10. Unfortunately without well hidden configurations to disable forced updates, we have to get used with this newer concept.

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Although after upgrading IE on Win7 to IE11, Win7 users MUST hide the KB3035583 (Get Win10 app) update when using WU as KB3035583 is only offered to Win7 + IE11 users as I’ve confirmed this myself on a Win7 machine. KB3035583 will NEVER be offered to Win7 users on WU that have old versions of IE like IE8, IE9 & IE10.

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I don’t use IE But still have it on my system. Didn’t know that in Jan no more updates for IE! I use fire fox myself. It’s fine can be annoying like IE at times.

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Browsers are a matter of choice. However the average user should be aware that a good number of exploits get onto a PC through a browser.

When intrusive ads became a major issue, Firefox and Chrome addressed it with extensions, whereas IE did not. When invasive data analytics and social engineering sites became a significant security issue through 3rd party scripts and frames, again Firefox and Chrome addressed it with extensions, but IE did not. Chrome and Firefox also provide users many options to set the browser to their own needs, but not IE.

Extensions are not complicated to use. They are setup (the default settings) for the average user. In IE, there are a couple of add-ons for adware management, but none for 3rd party scripting.

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WU still offers that update on my Win7, IE9 machine. At some point I had IE11, but I downgraded to 9 about a year and a half ago for compatibility with a hardware peripheral.

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I’ve had IE11 installed on my computer since Aug 15 and have been installing the updates once given the all clear on this site. I haven’t noticed any issues. Then again, if I launch IE, it’s only to make sure my original settings were not changed after an update.

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KB3035583 has now gone through seven versions.

I only upgraded this Win 7 PC from IE9 to IE11 on Dec 27th., but had been offered, and had hidden, KB3035583 several times before that.

I keep three almost identical Win 7 PCs patched, and I see crazy variations in what is offered for each PC.

I am very wary of expecting consistency from Windows Update.

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It looks like installing the IE 11 update ALSO installs KB 3035583, even if it was hidden before. That brings on the whole WNP (Windows 10 Nagware Platform, trademark pending — what Microsoft calls GWX, or Get Windows X).

There are three ways to apply IE 11 – from Windows Update, from direct download from the MS site, and from downloads from other sites (such as Filehippo). Every indication I have at this point is that all three methods also install GWX, even if it’s been hidden.

If anyone has a contrary experience, I’d sure like to hear about it.

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@Woody

“It looks like installing the IE 11 update ALSO installs KB 3035583, even if it was hidden before. That brings on the whole WNP (Windows 10 Nagware Platform, trademark pending — what Microsoft calls GWX, or Get Windows X).”

And does GWX Control Panel recognize, alert and/or prevent KB 3035583 from being installed if one has “disable OS upgrades in Windows Update” selectec?

Or does the install/update of IE11 and the simultaneous install of KB 3035583 require a manual uninstall of the patch?

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There is a way to beat it Woody but it only applies to installing IE-11 during a fresh install of Win 7.

I upgraded a laptop from Vista to Win 7 last weekend and KB3035583 never showed up on the list of available updates… even after IE-11 was installed.

I think the “key” was the key to it never appearing. I didn’t enter a product key and activate Windows until everything was completed in case I had to start over for some reason. I know you have 30 days to activate so I decided to wait this time.

I believe because Windows wasn’t “Genuine” it wasn’t considered a candidate for the GWX campaign and updates specific to the GWX campaign weren’t being offered. Of course I may be wrong, but I’ve done quite a few fresh loads and always activated during the install process… and then had to hide that KB (and a few others) over & over during the updates.

You can bet your bottom dollar I won’t be activating one again on a fresh load until all the updates are installed.

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I put IE11 on two of our three PCs around Dec 6th, and did this one on Dec 27th.

No sign of KB 3035583. GWX Control Panel finds nothing.

But I did not upgrade to IE11 using Windows Update. I keep an Autopatcher archive in case I need to reinstall Windows again. So I used the Autopatcher archived version of KB 2718695, IE11 for Windows 7 x64. And then applied the requisite cumulative update.

Maybe that is why I see no sign of KB 3035583, other than the one hidden update.

Sorry if I misled anyone.

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@woody I am currently only using Windows 7 Enterprise version for work while all my home computers are running Windows 10 Pro. I have never seen the GWX or the Windows 10 nagware although I tend to update the Windows 7 computers to the latest updates, most of the time even before being ‘approved’ by Woody or Susan although I keep an eye on the potentially problematic patches.
Can someone please clarify if KB3035583 is one of the optional updates and as such can be easily avoided. I also assume that the Windows 7 Enterprise version does not get the GWX as it does not qualify for the upgrade due to the licensing terms.

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You’re right on all counts – it’s not needed on Enterprise machines, and wouldn’t work even if you did get it.

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That’s interesting. Any idea how old the Autopatcher archived version is?

We may be narrowing down on the date that Microsoft started strapping KB 3035583 onto the IE 11 update.

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Excellent info. Thanks!

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My understanding is that GWX Control Panel doesn’t pre-emptively prevent GWX from being installed but, once it’s installed, GWX CP will neutralize it.

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Bottom line: If we install the IE 11, is there any way we can protect ourselves from the KB3035583? I’ve had this one hidden for a long, long time.

What does the following mean? ” GWX CP will neutralize it”? My apologies for being so “computer illiterate”.

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There are no “forced” updates in Firefox. A new Firefox install will have Automatically install updates checked by default, but there are two other choices: 1) Check for updates, but let me choose whether to install them, and 2) Never check for updates. I have multiple versions of Firefox installed, including the latest, all with the Never check setting, and not one of them has ever updated on its own. I skipped Firefox 42 because of a conflict with a required extension.

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I know I posted something about this a while ago, but seeing Woody’s post here made me go back to see if the one Win7 Pro-64 machine (with GWX Control Panel’s Monitor running) that I updated to IE11 showed KB3035583 installed. I checked Win Updates making sure, first, that I was still set to Never Check for Updates (I was), then I checked Update History all the way back to this past May (KB3035583 was not listed); when I went to see if it was one of my Hidden Updates, I was surprised to see there there were *NO* hidden updates — I was positive I had hidden updates. I then went to do a Win Updates scan and almost immediately was met with Error 80244019. Three more tries over a period of 15 minutes and same error each time. After a brief search for what other people did for this error, I found one suggestion that a virus was blocking access to certain servers (Error 80244019 supposedly being caused by inability to access the Update servers) and that running a Malwarebytes scan was in order. My installed copy of Malwarebytes was unable to access its update servers. Hmmmm … (and yet, my Norton Internet Security program was able to update and its scan indicated no trouble). So I downloaded a fresh copy of Malwarebytes, did an update and a scan with nothing found.

Yeah, I know this is a long read. We’re getting to the end of the story … just for the heck of it, I tried another Win Updates scan and it ran without any error and completed its scan. The Hidden updates list now returned with a listing that was more like I remembered; KB3035583 was still among those listed.

So, my “contrary experience” is that I updated from IE10 to IE11 using a download obtained in early Dec from Microsoft’s IE webpage and installed on Dec 22. Following the install, KB3035583 was listed in Optional updates and was unchecked. That KB did not appear in Update History — not as an update installed on Dec 22 nor as an update installed at any time dating back to this past May. So unless the KB was installed as part of the IE11 install and just not listed in Update History because it was not part of a Win Update process, I don’t think it was installed in this machine.

Any idea where else I can look to see if it was installed? Is there a registry key I can check? GWX Control Panel says I’m completely clean and it never warned me before, during or after the IE11 install of any GWX activity.

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Woody,

I have upgraded IE to Version 11 through Windows Update on several Win 7 systems. I then reran Windows Update in order to apply the latest IE Cumulative Update.
These systems are identically configured — Check for updates but do not download, Recommended Updates is unchecked, and the Group Policy setting to turn off an OS upgrade has been enabled. For each system the KB2952664 and KB3035583 updates remain uninstalled and unchecked among the available Optional updates.

My personal experience managing these systems leads me to disbelieve the notion of stealth installations of KB303583 piggybacked on IE11 upgrades.

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Very interesting. Perhaps turning off the OS Upgrade switch makes a difference.

I’m going to be trying some experiments today – various machines, different configurations, different upgrade types – to see what’s happening. Any observations most welcome.

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I don’t know of any registry key that gets tripped. This is really bizarre behavior!

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MY apologies for being so opaque.

Installing KB 3035583 isn’t a problem if you intend to upgrade to Win10. On the other hand, if you want to avoid the nagging, you should run GWX Control Panel – which effectively neutralizes the Get Windows X nagware.

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It is unclear if those who have had kb3035583 disappear, reappear or get installed have allowed or disallowed the installation of “Recommended” updates. There is a similar lack of clarity regarding other relevant configuration options for Windows Update in such situations.

I suspect this has more to do with configuration settings than Microsoft sleight of hand.

It’s also entirely possible that there was a mistaken reliance on GWX control panel to prevent updates.

I have never had the need to install GWX control panel because appropriate Windows Update settings and continued vigilance has prevented installation of the GWX nagware.

It may be an unpopular to say it, but until more facts are available we still have to consider the possibility of plain old human error.

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@Bruce…

From a Google search every link I see typing in “KB2718695” is for IE-10, not IE-11.

KB2718695 dates back to November of 2012 and IE-11 wasn’t released for almost a year after that in October of 2013.

I don’t understand the relationship between using an archived autopatcher for IE-10 with the installation of IE-11. What am I missing here?

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Woody I think just accessing your hidden updates can cause “bizarre” things to happen!

I posted in a thread here a while ago that simply LOOKING at my hidden updates followed by clicking Cancel UN-hid every one of them.

I’m certainly not a “noob” and I’m absolutely positive I never took any action to unhide them… and even if I had, by clicking on the “Cancel” button should have abandoned any changes.

The words Microsoft and bizarre in the same sentence fits like two peas in a pod anymore!

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It appears to date from no later than 11 Nov 2015.

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I updated two Win7 machines from IE10 to IE11, one 64bit and one 32bit. In neither case was IE11 offered through Windows Update. I downloaded the 64bit installer from the MS website, the 32bit from Filehippo.

In BOTH cases, KB3035583 and KB2952664 were already on the list of hidden updates. In BOTH cases, IE installed, went through the process of acquiring updates (not running Windows Updates, this was BEFORE rebooting) and requested a reboot.

After the reboot, in BOTH cases, KB3035523 and KB2952664 were in the “View history” and the “Installed Updates” list with the current date.

In BOTH cases I could not uninstall KB3035583 (because it was running) until I disabled it with GWX CP. Then I could uninstall it and hide it.

In BOTH cases, I apparently uninstalled KB2952664, but when I rebooted, it reinstalled itself. After multiple attempts to uninstall KB2952664, followed by a warm reboot or a shutdown/restart, it continued to reinstall itself like it never left the install queue – I could no get rid of it.

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Finally (!) found the stand alone installer I used

IE11-Windows6.1-en-us.exe

06/02/2014

version 11.0.9600.16428

54,605 KB

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I wonder why we’re seeing so many different variations?

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Thanks! The game is afoot….

(Sorry, I just binge watched the BBC’s “Sherlock.” Fascinating.)

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That’s always the go-to explanation for weird things – and it may well be the case here. It’s just that I’m hearing the complaint much more frequently in the past few weeks.

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PKCano, can you recall if, PRIOR to doing the IE updates, you had these settings:

– Windows Update set to either “Never Check” or “Check but Let Me Choose”
– GWX Control Panel / “Windows Update OS enabled” set to No.

In my case, I had Win Update set to Never and GWX CP / Win Update OS set to No. Neither KB3035583 nor KB2952664 were installed when I did the update to IE11.

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@ Ed

I understand the confusion.

But what Autopatcher listed as

KB 2718695, IE11 for Windows 7 x64

actually pointed to the multiple language download page for IE11 (that is, it did by the time I used it)

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/internet-explorer/ie-11-worldwide-languages

and the standalone installer itself was named

IE11-Windows6.1-en-us.exe

It was only today, when trying to find the date of the installer that I discovered that Autopatcher had used a KB number in the list of available items, but the installer was downloaded from a webpage with no KB number, and the installer had no KB number either. And the KB number used in the list of available items was indeed the one that applied to the earlier IE10 upgrade.

I trust this is now quite clear. If so, you are doing better than I am.

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To further add to the confusion

IE11 can be downloaded from

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/Internet-Explorer-11-for-Windows-7-details.aspx

with a date published shown as 06/11/2013, and the associated KB is shown as KB 2841134

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2841134

I’m off to lie down for a while…

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OY!

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Without knowing the state of a system and its configuration settings in effect at the time that IE was upgraded to IE11 there is insufficient information to draw any conclusions about the results of the update process.

IMHO the frequency of the complaint has no bearing on the root cause. While it may be worthy of a raised eyebrow there isn’t enough information to draw conclusions. And these days pointing a finger at MS is just as popular a go-to explanation as human error.

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Points well taken. Tests are under way.

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I don’t think anything M$ related is “quite clear” to anyone Bruce including the folks at M$ themselves, but you did clear up my confusion over the KB number you provided being associated with IE-11.

Your reference date of 6/11/13 is ringing a bell here too. Although IE-11 wasn’t pushed out to the masses via Windows update until October 2013 it was indeed available for manual download a few months prior.

I was running IE-10 at the time and it was so painfully unstable I upgraded to IE-11 the moment I heard it was available. I do recall it was a while after I manually upgraded to IE-11 before it arrived via Windows update.

For the record I’m forced to use IE due to a specific web design issue but I use Firefox for everything other than that one site.

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Here’s an extra wrinkle to consider …

I updated another PC last night to IE11 from IE10 using the same downloaded file I had gotten from the MS website. Following the install and required restart, I immediately started the updated IE and the first dialog box that came up asked if I wanted to have IE set up with the default settings or if I wanted to do them myself, or as I normally might do when I’m in a hurry, click the button to have it ask me again later on. Instead of my usual “ask me later on” I chose to do the settings manually. The resulting screen offered three settings —

– Set BING as my default search engine
– Set my updates to Automatic (can’t remember if it meant Windows or just IE)
– Set IE to be my default browser

I thought about it afterwards and wondered if this is how some posters here had certain Win Updates installed without their knowledge. If nothing else, be careful of taking default settings when installing that IE11 update.

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@Ed: Something that I have noticed in the past few days — If I start up Win Updates and click on Restore Hidden Updates to see the list, there will be NO hidden updates listed, just a blank window. However, if I do a scan for Win Updates available, once the scan completes, I can go back to Restore Hidden Updates and the list will NOW be populated with those updates that I have hidden.

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Yep, the “Set my updates to Automatic” refers to Windows in general, not IE in particular. Interesting.

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@Owburp

That’s a great catch. Well done.

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On all three of the the Win 7 PCs I updated, used my archived Autotpatcher installer, I was asked about settings, and chose the default option.

My ‘check but let me choose’ setting remained unaffected. No unexpected arrivals so far.

I have GWX Control Panel running in monitor mode, and manually check each PC twice a day.

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@Eric ‘I suspect this has more to do with configuration settings than Microsoft sleight of hand.’

I think @Eric you are absolutely right, at least based on the information currently available.
The issue here is not that there are no workarounds or ‘optimal’ configurations available, but the difficulty of finding and doing those configurations for the regular end-user with average knowledge of the various flavours of Windows. It is all about transparency and default settings which are made in such a way that they serve Microsoft’s current interests and not necessary the customer’s short term interests. In fact this is a case of ‘Microsoft knows better’ and acting against their customers wishes to keep them and the Internet as a whole protected from malware in the long term. How legitimate and desirable is this corporate behaviour remains to be established.

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To further add to the confusion about IE11.
IE11 has evolved a lot via IE updates since November 2013 when it was originally released.
The ‘Gold ‘IE11 November 2013 Release can be installed manually only if the mandatory pre-requisites are also installed and a switch is used at the time of installation not to use online checks, otherwise the version installed would still be a later one.
For regular users, the safest bet is to use Windows Update which will not install the November 2013 version but an updated version with the current updates slipstreamed. The implications are that after uninstalling later IE11 updates, the earliest IE11 version which would be available is the slipstreamed one and not the November 2013 version. This is a minor inconvenience for most end-users and could present practical issues only for System Administrators of large numbers of systems requiring identical and consistent configuration.
I think the configuration of Windows Update presented by @Eric earlier using Group Policy to avoid OS Upgrade is the most supported and preferred if available. However, as far as I know, the Group Policy Editor is not available in the Home Editions of windows 7.

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The registry settings used by group policy are documented at https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351 so Home Edition users can make the changes manually.

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Trying to get a handle on how we are supposed to update the IE to version 11. I checked on one MS website, and it references “auto-updating”, etc. I will just wait a while longer.

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There’s no reason to update until AFTER the January patches come out. Sit back and relax.

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Woody, thank you for the guidance! Your advice is appreciated more than words can say! 🙂

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I installed IE11 before finding this great, useful website. I noticed gwx update is still listed as optional. Why would it still present if IE11 already came with gwx? I never use IE, should I remove IE11? Thank you

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Naw, keep IE 11 showing on your machine. (You can “remove” it, but you’ll never get rid of all of it.) Just use Chrome or Firefox (or Opera or whatever) instead of IE 11.

Not sure what you mean by GWX Update. Are you talking about GWX Control Panel?

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Thank you for your advice. By gwx I meant KB3035583 which to my understanding (I could be wrong) installs that gwx icon on your taskbar / desktop.

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Ah, KB 3035583. Wonderful piece of work.

Run GWX Control Panel and you won’t need to worry about 3035583 is installed, now or in the future.

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